Who you got for Rumble winner?

Any Predictions on who goes to Wrestle Mania and who walks away as champ?

Kota Ibush is your new IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental Champion. How long will his reign last?

Will Omega collect other titles from other companies and because the new Ultimo Dragon of this generation?

This should be an exciting year in Pro Wrestling.

>Who you got for Rumble winner?
>
>Any Predictions on who goes to Wrestle Mania and who walks
>away as champ?
>
>Kota Ibush is your new IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental
>Champion. How long will his reign last?
>
>Will Omega collect other titles from other companies and
>because the new Ultimo Dragon of this generation?
>
>This should be an exciting year in Pro Wrestling.

I have a feeling they’re gonna do something weird. I want them to do the Daniel Bryan win so that he can go at Perfect Heel Reigns at Mania. Reigns will ultimately win the belt back if he even goes as far as losing to DB but that’s the move right there.

I have no idea what they do with the Raw title for Mania but I could easily see Brock showing up all lazy and shit and getting a bitch ass Rumble win too. Or maybe they skip that he shows up on a Raw and Goldbergs his way into a title match. I assume/hope Goldberg doesn’t beat Drew.

I have no idea who takes it for the women. Belair seems like the one but maybe not.

Omega going around collecting titles COULD be a fun way to unite the remaining indies.

i havent watched consistently in a few weeks since football and nba are back

>Who you got for Rumble winner?
>
>Any Predictions on who goes to Wrestle Mania and who walks
>away as champ?
>
>Kota Ibush is your new IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental
>Champion. How long will his reign last?
>
>Will Omega collect other titles from other companies and
>because the new Ultimo Dragon of this generation?
>
>This should be an exciting year in Pro Wrestling.

I liked this rumble show. I only really wanted to see both rumbles but I enjoyed it all.

I’m really happy with both winners too. Sometimes, cut the cutesy shit and book towards the faces.

I don't dislike him like HHH

and it was actually cool to see him get back into it last year after so long out

but he's just kind of emblematic along w/ Cena of the era that turned me off the product

on the women side i LOVED the Bianca win. i would've liked a Rhea Rip win too. i cant believe she is only 24.
as long as it wasn't Charlotte I was fine with it.
i guess this year will be Toni Storm's big NXT year and then she'll jump main roster next year?

>Who you got for Rumble winner?

I had Belair (correct) and Bryan (incorrect) but had a sneaking suspicion the Men’s winner would be a part-timer (correct)

>
>Any Predictions on who goes to Wrestle Mania and who walks
>away as champ?

Edge could challenge either one and I’d be cool with it. Either way, I think his opponent is walking away champ. I’m more interested in Edge vs. Drew*. Roman has a lot of interesting options

*oh god, just occurred to me they could throw the title on Randy again just to run back that tired ass program. There are still 2 whole ppvs before Mania!

>
>Kota Ibush is your new IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental
>Champion. How long will his reign last?

If I understand NJPW history, this reign should be short and then his next reign will be long. Idk though... he’s in his late-30’s and I don’t think they’ll fuck around ( especially after the EVIL experiment). Guessing he holds it till next WK, if not longer.

My predictions may hinge on what they’re doing with Jay White, but right now I have Okada penciled in as G1 winner to set up a Tokyo Dome rematch.

Ibushi wants to condense them into one belt, which may be necessary, but it’ll still be sad to see the IC title go.

>Will Omega collect other titles from other companies and
>because the new Ultimo Dragon of this generation?
>

I think he gets the Impact Title (cause why not?). I’m hoping for the relationship with NJPW to develop enough to see Ibushi vs. Omega at some point, even if the titles are not on the line.

>This should be an exciting year in Pro Wrestling.

Hell yeah!

because there's no way in 2021 they could've trot out Goldberg in a title match or put Edge and Orton in the final 2 in front of a smark crowd and not have the audience completely shit all over it.

Sometimes I wish AEW wasn't mostly trash and was a legitimate alternative, then sometimes I think I just don't like this stuff anymore

>because there's no way in 2021 they could've trot out
>Goldberg in a title match or put Edge and Orton in the final 2
>in front of a smark crowd and not have the audience completely
>shit all over it.
>
>Sometimes I wish AEW wasn't mostly trash and was a legitimate
>alternative, then sometimes I think I just don't like this
>stuff anymore

I’m fine with old dudes who can work. I’m really fine with old dudes who have stories that make them compelling..ie: hurt dudes who got well enough to come back. Edge and Christian for instance. Not Goldberg for another. That mfer can’t work and he’s like a fake Brock who is more willing to show up and job here and there. And even with him, I appreciate that he does the physical work to at least try to look good when he shows up.

I’m mostly not fine with the guys who are stuck in the middle with no way out. Ie: Cesaro and Sheamus. Daniel Bryan and AJ now to a lesser degree.

Aew got who they could get. If they stay with it long enough, they might stumble into just the right set of guys and things could get fun. I honestly don’t expect much from them right now at all. Maybe that’s my fault. But I get that shit is tough when rando folks are making 75 - 200k to work 5x a month if that in wwe. You need a guy who is good but still hungry to do more who is almost clean contract wise. That’s not always gonna happen. And shit, would AEW do any better with a Sheamus? Or even someone crazy like an AJ Styles? What about Ricochet? Lucha Underground was fun with him as the main face but what would AEW really do with him?

>because there's no way in 2021 they could've trot out
>Goldberg in a title match or put Edge and Orton in the final 2
>in front of a smark crowd and not have the audience completely
>shit all over it.

Bryan's elimination would've disappointed a crowd, but I don't think it's a situation like in 2015 where the fans would've hijacked the show or anything. Edge winning may not be ideal, but of all the part-timers or old guys who could've won the thing he's by far the least bad option. Overall I thought it was a really good show and am really happy Belair won.

Drew mowing down Goldberg in front of a crowd would have absolutely worked. People are tired of his one trick, and he adds nothing to the people he beats.

Drew is the anti-Golberg, because he's a workhorse and a legitimate leader.

2. An audience would have been all in on Edge to win the rumble.

He's been gone a decade, and even as a part timer in the main event of Mania, isn't here to kill anyone's darlings and won't suck the air out of anyone else's momentum.

-Bluetista showed up the year Bryan happened
-Goldberg ate both KO and Fiend
-Brock ate everyone for years.

These guys got jeers due to tone deaf booking.

Edge is as fresh as a returning legend can be, is loved by fans, and has a story anyone with half a heart can get behind.

Bianca winning would have also popped the crowd, because she had an extremely strong showing last year, and represents a fresh face who just took out the Queen.

This was the most fan-friendly Rumble in recent memory.

Put this show in front a crowd, complete with the stupid bits we got, and it goes up a full letter grade, at a minimum.

Is it me or do they seem to be veering more in the direction of taller/bigger performers in the main event on the non-nxt shows? I know that’s kind of their norm but it seems like an even more clear shift recent in their title pictures. I’m thinking so and I’m thinking it is a way to further differentiate themselves from an AEW or the other indies, which generally just don’t have as many tall/bigger folks who can work.

Lashley. Big E. Reigns. Belair. Edge. Taller/bigger folks.

>Who you got for Rumble winner?
>
>Any Predictions on who goes to Wrestle Mania and who walks
>away as champ?
>
>Kota Ibush is your new IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental
>Champion. How long will his reign last?
>
>Will Omega collect other titles from other companies and
>because the new Ultimo Dragon of this generation?
>
>This should be an exciting year in Pro Wrestling.

Or at least until the Kross injury they were. On the women’s side I feel like Raquel Gonzalez is gonna win the women’s title next and she’s crazy strong.

Christian was the easy highlight for me. I popped when he came out, and popped again for the Edge reunion

and he looked fucking GREAT. he should be working unless he just doesnt want to

I still love it, cause the Rumble is always fun, but if you'll let me rant for a moment, I hate:

- the wrestler who stays out most of the match and comes back. at least they spun it so Orton didn't win this time.

- the 2 feet rule has gotten pretty foolish. i love the crazy spots, but there's no reason a person with their entire torso on the ground should still be in.

- eliminated wrestlers or affiliates shouldn't be able to eliminate anyone. Shit is lame. There's a million refs here and they're not allowed to make this call? The 92 Rumble is kinda ruined by the fact that Hogan assisted in Sid's elimination.


I also think they should make better use of tag teams, friends, and factions. There's always an agreement to "eliminate everyone else and then fight each other," but EVERYONE turns on each other too early! Just bad strategy. I believe only Randy Orton has successfully used his faction to the end (the Legacy vs. Triple H year). I do like that most wrestlers don't take it too personally when a friend eliminates them though. It'd be lame if every tage team broke up just cause of the Rumble.

>- the wrestler who stays out most of the match and comes back.
>at least they spun it so Orton didn't win this time.

This and the wrestler's number is called but they wait ten minutes to get in the ring thing. If you're number 9 and you don't enter before number 10 does then that should count as an elimination. I know people liked the Billie Kay thing in the women's rumble but I thought it was annoying and repetative. And then there should be like a limit of five people allowed to enter total if you enter the ring and then leave. Cumulatively, not each time you enter and exit the ring.

>- the 2 feet rule has gotten pretty foolish.

Yeah, this has just gotten ridiculous now. People landing on their backs on the floor and other nonsense.

I don't even really like the spot where someone is thrown over but grabs onto the top rope to keep their feet from touching the floor. It happens about 150 times per match.

>This and the wrestler's number is called but they wait ten
>minutes to get in the ring thing. If you're number 9 and you
>don't enter before number 10 does then that should count as an
>elimination. I know people liked the Billie Kay thing in the
>women's rumble but I thought it was annoying and repetative.
>And then there should be like a limit of five people allowed
>to enter total if you enter the ring and then leave.
>Cumulatively, not each time you enter and exit the ring.
>

They’ve established in previous years that you’re supposed to get in the ring before the next person does, but I think they only use it selectively to explain (after the fact) why someone was eliminated by never getting in the match.

Oh I drew #5? That sucks. I guess I'll just wait until #30 is out and go in then.

>- the 2 feet rule has gotten pretty foolish. i love the crazy
>spots, but there's no reason a person with their entire torso
>on the ground should still be in.

Kofi had a great run of creative rescues, but now they are taking the "2 feet must hit the floor" way too literal. It doesn't help that they've moved that gimmick off of Kofi and onto Naomi, who tbh I can't stand at alllll so I probably am a little bias in my hatred of these spots nowadays.

He’d get tackled and be on his back claiming “my knees were never down though!” trying to get back up and run. SMH.

>He’d get tackled and be on his back claiming “my knees
>were never down though!” trying to get back up and run.
>SMH.

Bwahahahaha! Was he out there doing HBK kip ups!?

It created genuine tension.

Seth's back, we all know Orton is still here, and so far it looks like they are, at a minimum, teasing Orton showing back up at the last second to either win, or cost Edge the win.

They eliminated Seth, Randy popped up and made it feel like Randy was about to get it but NOPE!

So I think they used that trope to great effect in this case. One guy made great sense- Seth, one guy made NO sense- Orton, but nobody wanted to see that for about 73 reasons- and Edge, who I don't think warranted serious consideration as a winner outside of being a dark horse.

That they managed to combine both the "guy who enters #1/2 and wins" and "guy who gets put out early and comes back for the win" tropes and still create a moment of sincere, reasonable doubt about who would win made for one of the better finishes in recent memory.

and i hate every fake physio scene along the way

keeping them mostly apart, but in the ring throughout, would have done a lot more for me.

I was legit mad for a second when it looked like Orton would steal it, and I was legit happy when Edge won it. That rarely happens to me now. Well done, IMO.

>I was legit mad for a second when it looked like Orton would
>steal it, and I was legit happy when Edge won it. That rarely
>happens to me now. Well done, IMO.

WWE is self-aware. Now, they seem to be more interested in saying 'let's book people into wanting something then give it to them before anyone can change their minds'. In this environment, that's likely the best call. After that it is a matter of having solid follow-ups and a little luck with injuries. So hey, if Edge is healthy right now, fuggin do it..give him a Royal Rumble win and title match. Nakamura has been languishing? Okay, get him in the mix on something! Finn isn't working on the main roster? Stick him back with NXT so that we can have someone other than DIY or Adam Cole as champ. They're even pulling the trigger on a Big E thing. I can dig it. People want Cesaro!? Fuck yawl..too bad..let's keep using him as a hand when we remember that he exists.

For me, it is too bad that there's a parade of podcasts and stuff that exist mainly to throw shit at just about everything any wrestling show does ever. I understand wanting shows to tighten up. I REALLY understand wishing that some of the 'good hand' guys would get their real chance to shine without having to go back to the indies. But some of the Cornette and crew folks tend to show up with their minds made up and then they just look for what they want to not like. And I can enjoy that stuff in small doses...Cornette's hatred for AEW and Omega especially is some parts funny. And he DOES have a point about some of Kenny's weaknesses as a top guy. But sometimes it is just a bit much. And it doesn't help anyone anywhere.

he compliments AEW when its good, and shits on it when it isnt

its true that he'll never have anything nice to say about anyone who wrestled an inanimate object, but i cant really blame him for that. in fact im glad there is a prominent voice who still thinks it should have an be taken and presented seriously.

This isn't the 70s

And if you looked at some of the shit he's come up with you wouldn't believe that he's one to crap on anything else someone is trying.

Same dude that got fired from NWA's most recent show for something some racist shit on their broadcast.

Yeah, I'm good on Jims take on most of the younger talent. Some people enjoy the stale side of a lot of what wwe is doing now so what are you gonna do.

because for some reason you jumped straight to ad hominems about me.

and how can he be that out of touch when mainstream culture seems to agree with him? actually everyone agrees with him, in that just about everyone agrees wrestling is silly now. its just that a small slice of people think thats a positive thing, while everyone else ignores it.

seems pretty on the nose to me, because no one has ever explained how any of this shit can be good, yet still be this unpopular. I promise that if it were good, people would watch.

>This isn't the 70s

well the observer named him best booker in the 2000's so im not sure what you thought you were saying there, but its meaningless in any context.

>because for some reason you jumped straight to ad hominems
>about me.
>
>and how can he be that out of touch when mainstream culture
>seems to agree with him? actually everyone agrees with him,
>in that just about everyone agrees wrestling is silly now.
>its just that a small slice of people think thats a positive
>thing, while everyone else ignores it.
>
>seems pretty on the nose to me, because no one has ever
>explained how any of this shit can be good, yet still be this
>unpopular. I promise that if it were good, people would
>watch.
>
>>This isn't the 70s
>
>well the observer named him best booker in the 2000's so im
>not sure what you thought you were saying there, but its
>meaningless in any context.

I’m a nerd. And an asshole. I don’t give a fuck if a bunch of people are or aren’t watching what I watch. And really, a bunch of people being into something does not mean it is good..somewhat clearly.

I know a gang of folks who watched wrestling mainly during the attitude era. They were not and are not long-term wrestling fans. They weren’t really on it before that time and once the bumps calmed down and/or the main stars quit, they were out. I’m not sure them watching wrestling made it better then or if would be a sign that it is better if they were to spent time on it now.

I regularly argue that the era right after the attitude era had mountains of good ass wrestling but folks just missed it cuz wrestling cooled off in popularity and the most over dudes were around a lot less. And WCW died and the invasion didn’t go as well as we dreamed it would cuz they didn’t have everyone they needed until well after the fact. Brock, Angle, HBK 2.0, Eddie, and Benoit were all pretty damn excellent. It ain’t their fault that Austin’s neck was shit and Rock hit big on movies.

I have friends who have never seen and won’t watch peak Ric Flair so they leave him off of their lazily created Rushmores. Is flair worse cuz folks didn’t see him? Fuck naw he isn’t. And if I catch myself fully trusting folks who didn’t and won’t see stuff, I’d be fucking up too. I feel the same about trusting folks who clearly have a known bias towards and against certain eras or companies. The all indy/gotta be Japan/movez and bumpz forever crowd is brutal in their own way too so I’m not anti Corny. Im old. I went to midsouth shows and remember them shits fondly. I’m anti limitation. And I like a lot of rasslin. 80s Midsouth. Heel heavy 80s nwa. Cartoon wwf. Attitude. Ruthless aggression. 90s all Japan. 2000s indy.

Cornette can be fun but, in general, if anyone has a show where most of the talk is negative, I will lose interest cuz I view it as a gimmick even if that’s how he actually feels. Ie: I generally hate new popular hiphop but here’s 150 episodes of me going on and on about new popular hiphop. If you hate it too, please listen to me so we can be mad about how and why it’s so bad. And every now and then, let me talk about a few things I actually like. And oh, I’m mostly gonna like new stuff if it reminds me of old stuff.

>Cornette can be fun but, in general, if anyone has a show
>where most of the talk is negative, I will lose interest cuz I
>view it as a gimmick even if that’s how he actually feels.
>Ie: I generally hate new popular hiphop but here’s 150
>episodes of me going on and on about new popular hiphop. If
>you hate it too, please listen to me so we can be mad about
>how and why it’s so bad. And every now and then, let me talk
>about a few things I actually like. And oh, I’m mostly gonna
>like new stuff if it reminds me of old stuff.

You nailed it.


He seems to cater to the people who can't look past something being not what they remember it to be. I love all wrestling and grew up on the territory stuff myself but times have evolved and wrestling can't be JUST the same as it always was. You still have some acts that give you that old school feel but just like everything else its an evolving form of entertainment. Just like if you ask a lot of the older school guys they'll tell you flat out these new kids are far more athletic than they are, so why wouldn't they display that? There are still classic matches going on. I've seen him flat out shit on something just because he doesn't like the person in the match despite it being an amazing match.

Cornette show seems more hate than anything else. Put that with the fact that he's been recently very misogynistic towards females expressing their views on the business just because he knows his fanbase will back him up. Nah, I just can't ride with Cornette anymore.

>Cornette show seems more hate than anything else. Put that
>with the fact that he's been recently very misogynistic
>towards females expressing their views on the business just
>because he knows his fanbase will back him up. Nah, I just
>can't ride with Cornette anymore.
>

Try not to listen to/read anything that's too positive or negative, and Cornette just hates everything, so what's the point? I don't even think he actually hates half the things he says he does, it's mostly an act to drum up outrage, listens, retweets, etc. Every time I see articles about his opinions pop up I think "Congrats, it worked" but I refuse to get into the weeds with all his nonsense. You can dislike indie wrestling, AEW, or any other product without trolling or making people feel like shit but the guy has no class. That along with the aforementioned awful views he has (not to mention the #SpeakingOut stuff) and I see no reason to fuck with him.

...current wrestling.

I'm not going to front, listening to stuff from his podcasts and shoot interviews while at work is part of what sparked my interest in wrestling after being away for a while. And from listening to him to the way he described Omega, he made sound like Erik Watts crossed with Vince Russo. Then when I finally started watching AEW, I was a bit shocked at how largely inoffensive he is. Yeah, he's pretty far down the list in terms of what I enjoy about the company, but he's far from disgracing the business out there.

And speaking as someone who works as a critic from time to time, if 95% of what you have to say is negative, then that doesn't speak well of your critical abilities. Yes, it can fun to shit on stuff, but it shouldn't make up the lion's share of your schtick. It's telling when the longest clips of the podcast are him shitting on whatever was on AEW last weeks, and he can barely scrape together 5 minutes of discussion about what he actually enjoys.

>...current wrestling.
>
>I'm not going to front, listening to stuff from his podcasts
>and shoot interviews while at work is part of what sparked my
>interest in wrestling after being away for a while. And from
>listening to him to the way he described Omega, he made sound
>like Erik Watts crossed with Vince Russo. Then when I finally
>started watching AEW, I was a bit shocked at how largely
>inoffensive he is. Yeah, he's pretty far down the list in
>terms of what I enjoy about the company, but he's far from
>disgracing the business out there.

Key words: out there. He's actually done plenty to disgrace the business and any reasonable person could understand why someone like Jim Cornette would have strong feelings about someone who comes across so fake.

>And speaking as someone who works as a critic from time to
>time, if 95% of what you have to say is negative, then that
>doesn't speak well of your critical abilities. Yes, it can fun
>to shit on stuff, but it shouldn't make up the lion's share of
>your schtick. It's telling when the longest clips of the
>podcast are him shitting on whatever was on AEW last weeks,
>and he can barely scrape together 5 minutes of discussion
>about what he actually enjoys.

That would seem to say more about the available product than anything else. You're acting like wrestling is music, where the good stuff is there to be found with a little effort. Hes not ignoring good product to shit on bad product. Hes clearly stated what he thinks is good product over and over and over again. If thats on TV and im just not seeing it, Id love for someone to help me out over here.

>I’m a nerd. And an asshole. I don’t give a fuck if a bunch
>of people are or aren’t watching what I watch. And really, a
>bunch of people being into something does not mean it is
>good..somewhat clearly.

why did you assume that i care whether or not people wach wrestling? I dont. But a publication like Billboard or something of that stature recently polled people about *why* they dont watch wrestling and the runaway answer was that its too silly. Conversely, head over to r/squaredcircle and look at all the people who use silly like a compliment. Everyone is saying the same thing while the audience crashes. Nobody abandons a good product of any sort at that rate.

>I know a gang of folks who watched wrestling mainly during the
>attitude era. They were not and are not long-term wrestling
>fans. They weren’t really on it before that time and once
>the bumps calmed down and/or the main stars quit, they were
>out. I’m not sure them watching wrestling made it better
>then or if would be a sign that it is better if they were to
>spent time on it now.

if they were to spend time on it now, at the very least it woud indicate that the show is good.

>I regularly argue that the era right after the attitude era
>had mountains of good ass wrestling but folks just missed it
>cuz wrestling cooled off in popularity and the most over dudes
>were around a lot less.

I mean, Impact has good wrestling right now. But the TV show is terrible. Like...TERRIBLE.

>And WCW died and the invasion didn’t
>go as well as we dreamed it would cuz they didn’t have
>everyone they needed until well after the fact. Brock, Angle,
>HBK 2.0, Eddie, and Benoit were all pretty damn excellent. It
>ain’t their fault that Austin’s neck was shit and Rock hit
>big on movies.

Youre still talking about 3-4x the audience that RAW has today (2005 #s), and like 7x the audience that Dynamite does. Those are numbers that a good wrestling show could still do today

>I have friends who have never seen and won’t watch peak Ric
>Flair so they leave him off of their lazily created Rushmores.
>Is flair worse cuz folks didn’t see him? Fuck naw he
>isn’t.

Thats not really an applicable point, because Ric Flair had a massive contemporary audience. MASH was good ahow from all accounts but i aint going back to watch it. However that doesnt change the fact that the people who were there to watch it DID watch it

>And if I catch myself fully trusting folks who
>didn’t and won’t see stuff, I’d be fucking up too. I
>feel the same about trusting folks who clearly have a known
>bias towards and against certain eras or companies. The all
>indy/gotta be Japan/movez and bumpz forever crowd is brutal in
>their own way too so I’m not anti Corny. Im old. I went to
>midsouth shows and remember them shits fondly. I’m anti
>limitation. And I like a lot of rasslin. 80s Midsouth. Heel
>heavy 80s nwa. Cartoon wwf. Attitude. Ruthless aggression. 90s
>all Japan. 2000s indy.

My first shows were Crockett shows so I get where youre coming from, but equivocating Cornette (who wants wrestling to be good so wrestlers make more money) with the Fight Forever crowd (which is clearly a zero growth demographic to serve as evidenced by Dynamite numbers) is hella false. Cornette has personal feelings, as would anyone who poured as much literal blood and sweat into something, but the smart marks who think they should be driving the direction of the business seem to be costing people money by insisting the shows are catered to their tastes. The show has been on the air for like a year and a half, and the numbers havent moved for well over a year. Its not coincidence that they cant add viewers. The product is clearly a turn off for the mainstream audience.

>Cornette can be fun but, in general, if anyone has a show
>where most of the talk is negative, I will lose interest cuz I
>view it as a gimmick even if that’s how he actually feels.
>Ie: I generally hate new popular hiphop but here’s 150
>episodes of me going on and on about new popular hiphop. If
>you hate it too, please listen to me so we can be mad about
>how and why it’s so bad. And every now and then, let me talk
>about a few things I actually like. And oh, I’m mostly gonna
>like new stuff if it reminds me of old stuff.
>

Thats not really what his show is tho. He spends vastly more time telling stories, and I dont think he's ever cared who likes him and who doesnt. In biology we call that convergent evolution. People come to agree with Cornette on their own. He just talks about the shit he cares about. Im 100% certain that he would rather watch Dynamite, see 2 hours of coherent booking and believable wrestlers, and say good things about it. That would mean WWE has legit competition, wrestlers are getting paid, and the product has growth potential.

And it needs to be said here that the stuff he complains about (illogical storylines, bad acting, characters that arent believable, shoddy work) are the same things that kill any bad TV show regardless of genre. The difference is that when there are 3 shitty action shows on TV, there are also 10 good ones. To use your analogy, you could do a podcast on hip hop, and despite the proliferation of garbage, you could still talk about Royce or Gibbs or Griselda or Killer Mike or etc. When there are 3 shitty wrestling shows on TV...well now what?

I had just watched every Rumble match before this over the course of a few weeks and this trope was really wearing on me lol.

Like that’s totally how he should behave and you should feel right there. Bravo.

This was looking like a fairly predictable PPV but they threw in a few surprises and kept the show nice and short. Miz looked right as champ.

Looks like a brilliant concept based on the New Day’s Black History Month gear sets:

Www.ourheroesrock.org

My guess is that it's a transfer to Lashley though, and we'll get Lashley/Drew, I think.

This has been the worst MITB season ever. Otis is trash, Miz is Jeff Jarret with promo skills and that's not a compliment, and everything they've done with that briefcase has been trash.

There’s major $ in having McIntyre chase chickenshit Miz

How hilarious would it be if a you do that fatal four way. Miz takes all the Hoss abuse, the other three guys beat the shit out of each other , and then weasel Miz retains

And doing some commentary, how is that a wreck?

You want vets like this in a backstage type of role that can give some help to younger guys advice. Especially the big guys since he knows how to work as a big man. I seriously doubt he's going to be wrestling weekly. You MAYBE get one match a year out of him on some side shit that isn't meant to be taken seriously.

I swear some of y'all just hate wrestling now with all this complaining lol.

I was wrong. It’s a mashup of all
The hokiest parts of Impact, Nitro, and 2000s Raw. No stakes, no new ideas, lots of ex WWE guys at the top. It’s not a good program, it’s just not.

Though a lot of that was Jericho....and he’s really gone off the rails, pretty much since he lost the title.

But yeah, this is not even better than TNA circa 2006-08. Still better than Raw though. Smackdown is probably the most watchable show right now.

both in the ring and out of it

and the last few weeks hes trying to just turn that off but its too late

I have no idea how they pulled off that Spanish Fly from the top rope, but I hollered.

I also have no idea what some of you are wingeing about.

took me right out of that match...and the women's match...and the varsity blonds match

all 3 of those were good...until i was looking at my phone in the middle of them

I'm in favor of longer matches. And the main event and the women's match definitely deserved to be longer matches. But I also recognize that they need to pay the bills. It seems like the only match they're able to commercial free is the opening segment, which is usually pretty good (Except when you need Moxley to squash someone segment to prove a point).

At least they seemed to structure the matches so that the break happens during the methodical heel beatdown/babyface in peril segments. And I have larger issues with those portions of a match in general, especially during the pandemic. But those issues aren't unique to AEW, as they happen on every televised match in every company.

and the comeback starts within 30 seconds of coming back. for me personally, that screams "FAKE". so its not just the commercial break, its that their structure around the break is predictable.

maybe ive been away from TV wrestling too long for those little things not to bother me. like regular viewers got acclimated to modern things like that, but im getting it all at once. i dunno.

and im actually on the other side of the fence as you. i think the TV matches regularly go way too long. this is another thing my "wrestling as a sport" mentality has trouble with. every NBA game isnt a 121-120 barnburner, not every boxing match goes 12 rounds, and sometimes its just not your night. people rightfully complain about 50/50 booking, but 50/50 matches can wear on me as well. its like getting the match over to the smart marks is a higher priority than getting a wrestler over. if they cant have a 6 minute TV match where both guys make an impression, 6 more minutes becomes diminishing returns for me.

i think as an adjunct to that, a million kick outs until one guy is teetering on the brink of becoming a vegetable is way too prevalent too. "real" wrestlers get pinned while they are still full of piss and vinegar all the time. id like to see more of that.

like i said...i dunno. i like my wrestling show to be at about a 65-35 split between wrestling and talking, and dynamite feels like its around 85-15. the pandemic actually improved the show imo, in that in front of fans it felt like 95-5. maybe it will even out when there are enough good talkers for that.

So if you're going to have to put in a commercial break, you might as do it in the heat spots, because there's no crowd to play off of.

Now, this relates to my larger issue, in which I do think that during this time of COVID all federations should find different ways to structure their matches, since that aren't crowds for heat, pops, etc. But that's not an issue that's localized to AEW.


>maybe ive been away from TV wrestling too long for those
>little things not to bother me. like regular viewers got
>acclimated to modern things like that, but im getting it all
>at once. i dunno.
>
>and im actually on the other side of the fence as you. i
>think the TV matches regularly go way too long.

I can only talk personally for myself, but I'll say what drew me back into watching AEW (and hence, wrestling) were the longer match times. No maybe I got spoiled because the first episode I watched had a bunch of high quality matches right there, but I enjoyed see the majority of the focus on the in-ring action. Maybe because what drove me away from watching WWE for the endless 15-minute segements/constipated HHH promos that would open Raw and Smackdown during the '00s.


>this is
>another thing my "wrestling as a sport" mentality has trouble
>with. every NBA game isnt a 121-120 barnburner, not every
>boxing match goes 12 rounds, and sometimes its just not your
>night. people rightfully complain about 50/50 booking, but
>50/50 matches can wear on me as well. its like getting the
>match over to the smart marks is a higher priority than
>getting a wrestler over. if they cant have a 6 minute TV
>match where both guys make an impression, 6 more minutes
>becomes diminishing returns for me.

Well, I know it's indicative of every week, but I thought that last Wednesday's episode did the right balance in terms of match length.

Moxley - Squash, then setting the match with Omega
Hager - Squash, then further the Inner Circle/Bucks feud
I think both Baker/Rose and Fenix/Archer were both the right length.
You could argue that the Cage/Starks match should have been shorter, but honestly, I just like watching those two wrestle. Plus, they've both been doing two-minutes or less squashes on Dark for the past month or so, and it was good to see them do some cool shit.

Which leads me to my next point: I can and do get to warch the non barn-burner stuff by watch dark. Those usually go six minutes tops, aside for the occasional 10-minute main event. It establishes who needs to be the bad-asses and gets over the guys on the "main roster." But I feel like if it's going to go on their two-hour prime time slot, then I'd rather see more lengthier matches than less.

>I have no idea how they pulled off that Spanish Fly from the
>top rope, but I hollered.

Talk about a guy who could put on a great match with a broomstick. For my money he's the best high-flyer in the world. Ricochet is a little crisper, but Fenix wows me more with his moves. I want to see him get a little run with either singles title. Tons of great matchups they could do with the guy, especially now that he's a face again.

>
>I also have no idea what some of you are wingeing about.

I get a lot of the complaints about AEW, I really do. It's too indie. There's some guys who look ridiculous on TV. They need more writing/coordination. The women's division is still in bad shape... but they do enough right that I look forward to watching every week. That's more than I can say for NXT, even if that show is a little more consistent.

>Ricochet is a little crisper, but Fenix wows me more
>with his moves. I want to see him get a little run with either
>singles title. Tons of great matchups they could do with the
>guy, especially now that he's a face again.

Ricochet is indeed crisper, but Fenix looks like he's actually fucking his opponent UP in the ring. It looks so flashy but so effective. When he runs halfway down the top rope and does that kick to the face it looks like he took the other guys head off.

Dude is on another level right now and deserves all the attention. He needs that TNT title real soon.

>they do enough right that I look forward to
>watching every week.

the best stuff in AEW is the best stuff on TV, regardless of how dumb some of the other stuff can get. theres a vitality to it, and even if the good stuff comes out in uneven little bursts, theres nowhere else to get that good stuff.

Cause of death is undetermined, but Dutch mantel said it could be a stroke or aneurysm. I binged NWA Powerrr a few months back and he was a super entertaining comedy act, especially when he was paired with Damien Sandow. This is a huge bummer.

Merging the IWGP Intercontinental and IWGP Heavyweight titles into one and making a brand new belt.

It'll just be the IWGP World Heavyweight title now but damnit its the best looking championship in wrestling hands down and I have no idea what they could design to top this.

Guess we'll have to wait for the reveal but this whole thing has a lot of fans upset. It's going to be a hard belt to beat, almost feels impossible to think they could create something better.

https://twitter.com/JayWhiteNZ/status/1366275652949803009

It’s going over like a ton of bricks and the fact that they lingered on Tanahashi’s disapproving face the other day made me laugh.

The only way I could see this working is if they were phasing out the clunky and confusing “IWGP” branding to call it the New Japan World Heavyweight Title. That appears to not be the case though.

and he can still remind me why

The flow of the match itself was decent, but I still marked out at all of it. JJ Dillon. The vintage belts. The shoe. The tope fake-out. The slingshot suplex. Hell, I even went for Spears dressed up as the cameraman and clocking Luchasaurus with the glove. And the post match stuff, with Arn flashing the Horsemen symbol and Dillon going old school on Schiovane made me smile as well.

And while we're here, the Shaq match... I've seen much, MUCH worse. AEW never made us care about it during lead-up, but it seems like they figured out it wasn't working. So they moved it off the PPV and had it as the opening match. Yes, they were moving at 15 mph. And Cargill was green as a leaf. But Shaq seemed like he took the training seriously. His powerbomb was decent. Him taking the chair shot and beating up the Gunn brothers was fine. And clearly the highlight was him going through both tables, which he sold like he got hit with a truck. And now I ex
The episode in general was kind of "eh." Even though it was a hard sell for the PPV, there was very little about the main event. I wasn't feeling the Rose/Mizunami match; it also seemed like it was in slow motion. They built up the Street Fight decently. I was fine with the Fenix/Pac squash; I'm guessing Serpentico got hurt, so they're putting 2/3 of Death Triangle into the Tag Team Battle Royale. And I was fine was the Caster/Ten match.

Not their strongest episode, but sort of looking forward to the PPV.

HOF-level is what they've called it.

Who is it?

I'm thinking it is RVD or Kurt Angle.

I kinda wish it was Christian, but it isn't. And Cesaro just resigned too so no dice there either.

It is never Phil, so I can't figure it is him this time either.

I've heard folks say Brock. It could be but I just don't see it.

I don't know who else it could be. Someone mentioned Austin Aries. It better not be Austin Aries.

Zelina Vega is coming at some point too but I don't think they'd hype her as a HOF-level talent and ruin her debut that way.

>Who you got for Rumble winner?
>
>Any Predictions on who goes to Wrestle Mania and who walks
>away as champ?
>
>Kota Ibush is your new IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental
>Champion. How long will his reign last?
>
>Will Omega collect other titles from other companies and
>because the new Ultimo Dragon of this generation?
>
>This should be an exciting year in Pro Wrestling.

Punk or Lesnar are the only ones that would move the needle, if we’re talking about “HOF level” guys. Or Cena, lol.

I think they’ve hyped it up too much and I can’t tell if it’s deliberate or accidental. “HOF-Level” is pretty vague, but now it’s taken on a life of it’s own so if it isn’t Punk or Brock (which it won’t be) people will be disappointed. Christian is the only realistic option that might be interesting and wouldn’t get a bunch of groans. Otherwise it’s a completely washed wrestler or they’re stretching what “HOF-level” means to fuck with people.

>

Since that's apparently someone that they've just signed as well.

I'm not expecting it to be someone on the level of Brian Kage, but I hope it's not someone from Impact or something to further that angle.

Maybe not the signing a lot of people were hoping for, but Ethan Page is awesome. They probably should come to some agreement to change his last name though with Hangman there.

>Maybe not the signing a lot of people were hoping for, but
>Ethan Page is awesome. They probably should come to some
>agreement to change his last name though with Hangman there.
>

Oh I thought the mystery entrant and the big signing were the same lol.

What I said for Ethan’s last name applies to Christian too though. They’re calling him Christian Cage when they already have Brian?

Christian had a helluva career then injuries screwed him from going out on his own terms. If wwe was really trying to Ziggler him after all he probably had to do to get cleared and in-shape, he was right to walk on their asses and try his hand in aew.

I hope he looks good and can still go in the ring enough to have a good run. A decent run for him would be great for all of us. And it would at least give wwe folks an idea to go elsewhere if they want a certain spot on a card with some visibility still.

And all of the crying about his age? He retired in 2014 so that 47 isn’t so bad. And shit, folks! There’s no 34-year old badass holy shit free agents right now. So aew took about the best available guy they could get. He was at least fine in his TNA days so I’m figuring it can work. I am pulling for him.

>HOF-level is what they've called it.
>
>Who is it?
>
>I'm thinking it is RVD or Kurt Angle.
>
>I kinda wish it was Christian, but it isn't. And Cesaro just
>resigned too so no dice there either.
>
>It is never Phil, so I can't figure it is him this time
>either.
>
>I've heard folks say Brock. It could be but I just don't see
>it.
>
>I don't know who else it could be. Someone mentioned Austin
>Aries. It better not be Austin Aries.
>
>Zelina Vega is coming at some point too but I don't think
>they'd hype her as a HOF-level talent and ruin her debut that
>way.
>
>>Who you got for Rumble winner?
>>
>>Any Predictions on who goes to Wrestle Mania and who walks
>>away as champ?
>>
>>Kota Ibush is your new IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental
>>Champion. How long will his reign last?
>>
>>Will Omega collect other titles from other companies and
>>because the new Ultimo Dragon of this generation?
>>
>>This should be an exciting year in Pro Wrestling.
>

I've always loved Christian's work, but after listening to these podcasts and seeing the level of praise he gets from damn near everyone, it's clear that he's a pro's pro, and it wasn't just me being a mark for another mid-size guy.

He's a high quality addition, and he can do a million things for them.

His matches, promos, working with younger wrestlers, he'd be great at commentary, managing, you name it, he can do it at a high level.

He doesn't need to be a main event guy to be invaluable to them- but he can absolutely be an intriguing main event option for a spell here and there.

First time I've been intrigued by an event since COVID started I feel.

https://s.kast.live/g/8lf7lrmxzl

Not their best, but the high's were really high.

Great main event but whoever rigged those explosives to go off at the end may be out of a job in the morning.

>Great main event but whoever rigged those explosives to go off
>at the end may be out of a job in the morning.

Lol, what kind of Mickey Mouse explosion was that? Kingston and the announcers tried to sell it but that was impossible.

>
>>Great main event but whoever rigged those explosives to go
>off
>>at the end may be out of a job in the morning.
>
>Lol, what kind of Mickey Mouse explosion was that? Kingston
>and the announcers tried to sell it but that was impossible.

Yeah, somebody is gonna get run off. They framed the shot beforehand like it was gonna be some crazy looking fire pro wrestling explosion. Then oops..bad Roman candles shit.

All wrestling companies need to come together and agree to not sell botched stuff in all situations. If someone kinda misses a strike, don’t give it the full sell. If a big spot goes off with limited impact, have a plan in place. This can be done!

I’m guessing Kenny will eat it and say ‘yeah, I flubbed the design..Moxley is a lucky sob’ and it’ll be fine. And Moxley gave a promo afterwards and bashed Kenny over it.

https://youtu.be/MyHUXYexIaE

>Not their best, but the high's were really high.
>
>Great main event but whoever rigged those explosives to go off
>at the end may be out of a job in the morning.

https://youtu.be/rGSYhdTbxVQ

If they had gotten closer to this, things would have gone over very well. Folks would still complain about something because that’s earth in 2021 in the land of the amazingly unappreciative, but hey...here’s what it looks like.

The only problem is, you would have had to shoot it outside. And I don't if you want to take the "limited" crowd out of for two matches that night, much less two matches in a row. Though I guess they could have rejiggered the match order.

The Bad:
Wasn't feeling the Shida match. I just don't really "get" Mizunami's wrestling style.

The So-So:
Miro and Kip Sabian didn't really blow the doors off, but it got done what it needed to do.

The solid:
The ladder match. Some crazy spots, but kinda of sloppy. Which happens.
Page and Hardy. Liked the ending a lot. Lead to it was decent but unremarkable.

The good/very-good/excellent:
Big fan of the tag team battle royale. Fenix is fucking insane.
The tag team title match
The street fight. Probably didn't need commentary, especially since they shot it like an action movie. Kage carrying Darby up the stairs in a vertical suplex position was some shit.
The main event, up until the very end.



>Great main event but whoever rigged those explosives to go off
>at the end may be out of a job in the morning.

Someone said it was like the pyro they used to use for Gillberg. That seems apt.

A thousand facepalms.

https://www.bodyslam.net/2021/03/07/wwe-hires-new-lead-writer/

WWE may have lost one creative team member today, but it seems like a new one is already on board to replace them.

Ringside News has reported WWE has added Mike Heller to the creative team as a new lead writer. This gives them three lead writers with Heller now alongside Ed Koskey and Ryan Callahan. It seems Heller started last month for the company, and he comes with a background in television.

Heller’s work features such credits as a Segment Producer for Lip Sync Battle, a Writer for E!’s Celebrity Game Face, and a writer on MTV’s Ridiculousness. While most of his positions were only for a few weeks or a couple of months, his six years with Ridiculousness represents his most experience.

This is breaking news, and we will keep you updated as we learn more.

All decisions come down to Vince but he loves to blame the bad stuff on the writers and then fire them all. The turnaround on the writing staff is insanely fast and he LOVES to add in writers who don’t know much about wrestling*.

*maybe this guy does, idk. Someone’s entertainment background doesn’t necessarily reflect their interests or talent level. One of the funniest writers I know worked for Ridiculousness for years.

The talent gets shit on, despite very rarely being placed in a position to succeed. 50/50 booking, overly scripted promos, everything being scripted to Vince's predilections instead of fan reactions, the list goes on.

The talent constantly gets shit on by older wrestlers and even fans, but time and again, anytime we see a guy the fans love, with serious potential to go higher, Vince snuffs it out, if that person doesn't fit his preconceptions.

IMO hiring entertainment writers, instead of actual pro wrestling bookers, is a huge part of the issue with the current product.

>IMO hiring entertainment writers, instead of actual pro
>wrestling bookers, is a huge part of the issue with the
>current product.
>

I’ve heard tons of stories about/interviews from former writers. Basically they have hours of TV to fill and Vince doesn’t want everything to be so “pro wrestling,” so he hires writers of other backgrounds, which makes sense in theory and isn’t all that uncommon for any genre of entertainment. You want someone who can think outside the box? Add in a writer from outside that world. It may not work, but I get the logic.

At the same time, those writers usually feel immediately lost cause they don’t know much and are trying to catch up. Plus Vince doesn’t value the writers’ opinions anyway, he shits all over their ideas, puts in his own, and blames the writers/fires them when it inevitably goes sideways. I’m not even one of those people who think every idea Vince has is bad, but the way he conducts the whole creative process is pretty bizarre. It all falls on him, but everyone else takes the blame.

9 times out of 10 the job is a nightmare for a writer regardless of their background or knowledge of wrestling. I know a few great writers who love wrestling and won’t even submit for a job there because of all the horror stories.

Vince will get the script, change the entire thing. People hate it, and Vince will fire the writer lol.

Match of the year so far, and exactly what AEW's women's division needed. One of these two women should be the one to take Shida's title.

As a whole last night episode was a mixed bag, but the final match made it all worth it.

Britt pulled a five-alarm blade job out there. Add to that the thumbtack spot (which always makes me squeamish) and the finish, and it was one for the ages.

>Match of the year so far, and exactly what AEW's women's
>division needed. One of these two women should be the one to
>take Shida's title.

Agreed on all counts. I honestly think it should be Baker, but regardless the time has come to take the belt off of Shida. It will help to continue to energize the division.

>Britt pulled a five-alarm blade job out there. Add to that the
>thumbtack spot (which always makes me squeamish) and the
>finish, and it was one for the ages.
>

When they zoomed in on the racks and it was clear they were not gimmicked I knew we were in for some wild shit.

>
>Agreed on all counts. I honestly think it should be Baker, but
>regardless the time has come to take the belt off of Shida. It
>will help to continue to energize the division.

Definitely think Britt should be the shithead heel champ for a while and have everyone chasing her, but also wouldn’t mind Rosa as champ at all. I did not enjoy her work in Lucha Underground but she was brand new back then. I caught her on NWA Powerrr just before she started popping up on Dynamite and her improvement was very clear. I hope she’s a big part of AEW/NWA for a while.

>Match of the year so far, and exactly what AEW's women's
>division needed. One of these two women should be the one to
>take Shida's title.

Yeah, I just happened to turn AEW back on and see it. YIKES! They took it all the way. Britt is good money to me. She became a good times character and I think she's a solid worker too. And she put it ON THE LINE last night.

These ladies tore the fuckin house down. Strap that AEW woman's title on either one of these woman. Shida I think is about 60 more days for having the title for a year. Not sure if they're going to give that to her or just let the change happen soon but either Britt or Thunder Rosa would be the best champion next with the other woman eventually taking it from them.

She should’ve already been champ. Needs that title soon. A shithead heel that can both talk and work always make for great champs.

im not sure she's ready to have the kind of championship matches that make you believe in the superiority of the champ.

steadily improving tho, and definitely on her way

>im not sure she's ready to have the kind of championship
>matches that make you believe in the superiority of the champ.
>
>
>steadily improving tho, and definitely on her way

But I think she understands psychology and storytelling better than the rest of the women’s roster. Shit, maybe more than all the men besides Jericho. That’s why I wouldn’t hesitate to put the title on her for a long time. The matches will be entertaining because she’s gonna give us programs that we care about.

workrate to me signifies "how much" and a heel like her can (and should imo) have slow deliberate matches that get people riled up

>But I think she understands psychology and storytelling better
>than the rest of the women’s roster.

she definitely does. and she could, and does, have entertaining matches now. i just think that if they keep the belt off her until the non-smart marks arent the only ones who think she should be champ, then her run could be MASSIVE. and the way to make casuals think you should be champ is by kicking ass in a way that signifies "championship level athlete" in whatever style that may be. thats what i meant by thinking her work is still coming along. i dont look at her through casual fan eyes and see "champ" yet.

for a parallel, The Rock was clearly "the guy" very early for people who know what to look for. like, NoD era Rock. but i think the people who dont know what to look for need to see it too.

>she definitely does. and she could, and does, have
>entertaining matches now. i just think that if they keep the
>belt off her until the non-smart marks arent the only ones who
>think she should be champ, then her run could be MASSIVE. and
>the way to make casuals think you should be champ is by
>kicking ass in a way that signifies "championship level
>athlete" in whatever style that may be. thats what i meant by
>thinking her work is still coming along. i dont look at her
>through casual fan eyes and see "champ" yet.
>

I hear ya, though I think the state of the women’s division changes things quite a bit. Until the last month or so it feels like they’ve been stuck in first gear so I think they should strike while the iron is hot and put the title on her soon. Also RE: being a championship level athlete, I agree she’s not there yet but her finisher goes a long way, cause it looks fucking painful. I really get a kick out of her stealing gloves from the refs first too.

I do think the majority of AEW’s audience is smart marks of one variety or another though, so I’m not sure how much consideration they have to give to casual fans at this moment. They’ve made some lighthearted attempts at capturing a larger audience but I don’t think they’ve been successful as of yet (the pandemic obviously hurts that). Even the Shaq match, which was fun as hell, didn’t move the needle much if at all. I could go into the things I think they need to do to get casual fans, but we’ve all kinda had that discussion like a dozen times by now lol.

and they are strongly tied to the fan-service vs mainstream appeal issue, particularly as it relates to thinking that joshi is ever going to get over here.

i dont see that *ever* happening, so they can either shift gears to something that will get over or keep servicing a very small number of people with limited growth potential.

i think a lack of financial pressure on the company works against them sometimes. theres no desperate need for something to catch fire, so the booking can be meandering and niche without it hurting them. TNT is apparently satisfied with 750K, so as long as the rights money is there, they can do whatever they want.

Tully had a great opener. He can still cut great, convincing promos.

But MJF continues to prove he's God Tier on the mic. He's already on par with the best of the best as a promo.

Spears needs to cut that fucking mohawk, lol. He's an afterthought for me, but he'll work well as part of this group. The Chairman gimmick + Tully connection will work very well in this mix. He doesn't do anything for me on his own, but I think a group like this succeeds when you have clearly defined roles and a pecking order. I like him as a cold blooded henchmen, and he'll be elevated here.

Wardlow- The War Dog- is credible as a heater. He doesn't need to do shit but fuck people up.

And FTR- shitty wrasslin' names aside, are workhorses.

I think this has all the ingredients for a great faction.

A clear, charismatic leader who will command every room he's in if he has a mic in his hand, who can go toe to toe with anyone who ever lived on that mic, credible muscle, in-ring workhorses- and the rub from a bonafide legend.

MJF and Tully glue this whole thing together, and I think this group is very well constructed for long term success.

>Tully had a great opener. He can still cut great, convincing
>promos.
>
>But MJF continues to prove he's God Tier on the mic. He's
>already on par with the best of the best as a promo.

It was certainly reminiscent of Flair (I even thought I heard a slight Flair-esque lips, but maybe only because I wanted to).

I am so ready for these guys to be the top heels in the game. And honestly, soon it's going to be time to start putting belts on them. As soon as they finish fighting The Inner Circle (they gotta be setting up for Wargames, and The Pinnacle going over), have FTR take the titles back from the Bucks. And if the crowds keep on coming back, find a way to make MJF the World Champ and keep him in the spot for like two years. I so don't find Omega interesting as a heel champ (though his matches are still pretty good). MJF would the fucking master all the way around.

I know they were planning it then covid hit and they held off because they wanted that match in front of a live crowd. Getting Pinnacle vs. Inner Circle would be sick, Pinnacle needs to go over in that match.

This is looking to be one of the coolest factions in the game.

i have no trust that Jericho's involvement wont turn it into a farce

War Games used to be mostly about a heel stable (Horsemen, Dangerous Alliance, NWO, etc), and then a loose affiliation of faces that they had wronged individually. Cody, Jurassic Express, Darby, and Dustin is probably the A list group coming to mind right now.

id enjoy that considerably more than Pinnacle vs Inner Circle

I stand by my disdain for the 'old dudes who doesn't like much after a certain time' podcast genre in general in most if not all industries.

But this thread made me go into some wrestling that I haven't watched in a while AND it made me go back into some Cornette pods. And I enjoyed lots of the pods. The Royal Rumbles I watched? Another story..I watched 2 random ones from the Attitude-ish era and they had plenty of the same flaws that folks gripe about in the more recent ones. Bad flow, folks getting thrown out and the camera missing it, bad announcing from folks we know and love, all of that. The main difference: the main folks were outrageously over like basically no one ever. That will Febreze a bunch of shaky production, wrestling, and booking.

Back to Corny, I don't consider him or anyone a hands-down, trust everything said type authority. And while I can agree with some of Corny's disdain, some of it clearly holds some personal stuff mixed in with it too. IE: his dislike for Owens and Zayn. And some of it is him doing the thing that folks do now: they fall into a rut of not liking something and then they are damn near on the hunt for something to dislike even though their whole show is about the thing they claim to dislike so dramatically. IE: a patriot pod about how horrible the libbs are or vice versa.

BUT

As long as he doesn't pop up on one of these shows shiling anytime soon, I can get with him in doses.

And I flat out love when he's talking about older stuff..especially the stuff where he was actually there..kinda like Bruce P's long azz pods.

And, at this point, I'm pretty much over any singles match with the Young Bucks. A batshit tag match with saves instead of 40 kickouts is one thing. A singles match with a dude kicking out of TWO Canadian Destroyers and then winning the match 8 minutes later is another. That's what One Buck vs Fenix was a couple of weeks ago. Pissed me straight off. But maybe I'm just a mark for Canadian Destroyers!

I still like most Kenny Omega matches even tho I think of Cornette and LMAO anytime he gets 'theatrical' with the movements. But hell, seeing a vintage Flair match features much theatre. The flop, the rope flip, the <1% success rate on top rope moves, the times where Flair basically has a Flair match with himself while the other guy stands in and their whole offense is forced to be 'I'm wrestling Flair so I must do these 4 moves even if I never do these moves any other time. Oh, and I gotta fire up like Hulk Hogan and no sell whenever he tells me to'. All of that.

>Who you got for Rumble winner?
>
>Any Predictions on who goes to Wrestle Mania and who walks
>away as champ?
>
>Kota Ibush is your new IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental
>Champion. How long will his reign last?
>
>Will Omega collect other titles from other companies and
>because the new Ultimo Dragon of this generation?
>
>This should be an exciting year in Pro Wrestling.

Even though I agree with a fair amount of his criticism, I derive next to enjoyment from listening to a guy like him rant and rave about how bad it is.

I'd much rather chop it up with friends, or message boards for that.

But cats like Jim are fantastic when they're serving as ambassadors and curators of their eras. Guys like Jim become too married to the gimmick to make it worth listening to even the criticisms I agree with.

Jericho is in that same boat on the opposite end, where he thinks every match he has ever had "TORE THE HOUSE DOWN!", and every friend he has nothing short of spectacularly, amazingly, mind blowingly great.

Jim shits on everything, while Chris felates everything.

The Conrad- who I like until SAVE WITH CONRAD plays- casts with Bischoff, JR, and now Kurt, are excellent for their deep dives into specific historical subject matter.

Meltzer is boring and Alvarez can't talk about anything without that smarmy, snide, nerdy tone in his voice.

In terms of coverage of current content, I only rock with Solomonster and Keller. I respect Keller's analytic and journalistic approach (in terms of his audio content, I don't read Torch content) to his coverage, and Solomonster is about as good as it gets when it comes to coverage from die hard fans. He's not trying to get himself over, he doesn't have some crutch ass gimmick, and he tends to have pretty solid takes. Even when I disagree with certain things, he usually has a reasonable perspective.

His takes are usually pretty balanced and honest. He doesn't hate everything and doesn't love everything. Usually falls in the middle. I try to catch him live after most events to hear him break these things down. Seems like a pretty solid dude.


>In terms of coverage of current content, I only rock with
>Solomonster and Keller. I respect Keller's analytic and
>journalistic approach (in terms of his audio content, I don't
>read Torch content) to his coverage, and Solomonster is about
>as good as it gets when it comes to coverage from die hard
>fans. He's not trying to get himself over, he doesn't have
>some crutch ass gimmick, and he tends to have pretty solid
>takes. Even when I disagree with certain things, he usually
>has a reasonable perspective.

a few fellow Detroit Catholic Central alumni wrestling for UM

Iowa has all but broken a 10 year title "drought"

shitty timing but its at 7 eastern on ESPN

And I wish they’d saved it for MJF

Moxley is bad, AEW Omega is even worse. Back to back total dorks for champs

Imagine if Jericho had carried that thing for 18 months then fell to a white
Hot heel MJF

leaving aside the total lack of believability in his ridiculously overrated matches, he is maybe the single worst talker to ever carry a major American championship. since he isnt a credible monster like Kane or a credible shooter like Brock he's guaranteed to go nowhere in this country with that pathetic rap.

he sounds like a high school drama understudy who gets his big break when the good actor is sick on opening night, and hes trying to win an Academy Award for doing South Pacific in the gym in front of 30 parents and the AP English class (which hes obviously not in) thats there for extra credit.

nobody talks like that. as ceej once asked, how does someone not know how people talk?
they cant let anyone cut a good promo on him, because they'll make him look stupid.

his biggest wins in AEW involve the Bucks helping him beat PAC and Don Callis helping him beat Moxley (who woke him up for a
sit-down superslap party instead of pinning his lifeless body)

hes been presented like a goof, he talks like a goof, and the booking genius that brings us AEW thought that a tournament streak of beating Sonny Kiss, a round 1 loser (Penta), and an insecure crybaby descending into alcoholism would reshape that into something impressive, for reasons unknown to humanity.

and speaking of fucking goofs...these are the feared and revered Gallows and Anderson? what the fuck is wrong with these people? why is everyone allowed to express their most basic self-masturbatory urges while the audience treads sub-million water?

i dont understand the vision. Bullet Club means nothing to me and Im one of the people who *already* watches the show. i cant imagine who this will appeal to beyond who they already have.

>i dont understand the vision. Bullet Club means nothing to me
>and Im one of the people who *already* watches the show. i
>cant imagine who this will appeal to beyond who they already
>have.

AEW's consistent pandering to the internet smark subset confounds the mind

For almost a year now.

He's still great on the mic, but if I'm being generous, he's moving at half/third speed out there. Which is why they've been good as of late masking it by putting him in tag matches.

I'll grant you that Omega has not been a good heel champion. Last week is the first time he did something close to passable as good promo. Callis has been the bad type of obnoxious, and I groan whenever the Good Brothers come on screen (though I hear they're good on BTE). However, at least Omega can work in the ring.

MJF will take it off Omega, or take it off the guy that takes it off Omega (probably Hangman). And that will be fine, IMHO.

they could've had Jericho wrestle like 5 times a year, use the Inner Circle to shield him, and have Jericho "play the hits" when it is time for a match (walls of jericho, maybe a lionsault)

And also think given his experience and psychology, Jericho could still put on the occasional great match in a big spot. Think mid 00s Flair.

At this point, I’m so sick of the gymnastics flippy kicks crap, that I might even welcome some slow, lumbering title matches - though that might come off better with a crowd thats into it.

The kept the belt on him waaay too long. The returns were more and more diminishing the longer it went on. And considering how bungled the ending turned out to be, I think it's good that AEW didn't follow that template.

I will 100% grant that even now Jericho is better than Hogan was in the late '90s (or mid '90s), but giving him a six-month reign to effectively kickstart AEW seems like the right move. Wasn't hot-shotted, and it didn't overstay it's welcome.

I certainly don't want a long-term Omega reign either. But I can live with it now. It's a matter of personal preference, but if you give me a choice of champion who can talk but his work is shaky, and one who can work but is shaky on the mic, I'll take the latter.

Good thing MJF can do both. And at least we're in agreement on that.

>if you give me a choice of champion who can talk but his
>work is shaky, and one who can work but is shaky on the mic,
>I'll take the latter.

Omega may not be the best talker, but dude can GO in the ring. He's one of the best in ring workers right now and to even doubt that is either being stubborn or just not really paying attention to his matches.

Jericho was a great choice as a first time champion. Those months of his with the title were necessary but to say we need another Hogan run is crazy. Those matches were boring as shit and another run like that would most likely put people off of the product.

When I think of a main event title match Omega is for sure the type of person I'd rather have in that position because I know I'll get a banger of a match especially if its a PPV I paid for.

I think Hangman eventually takes it from Omega and MJF takes it off of him.

>The kept the belt on him waaay too long. The returns were
>more and more diminishing the longer it went on. And
>considering how bungled the ending turned out to be, I think
>it's good that AEW didn't follow that template.
>
>I will 100% grant that even now Jericho is better than Hogan
>was in the late '90s (or mid '90s), but giving him a six-month
>reign to effectively kickstart AEW seems like the right move.
>Wasn't hot-shotted, and it didn't overstay it's welcome.
>
>I certainly don't want a long-term Omega reign either. But I
>can live with it now. It's a matter of personal preference,
>but if you give me a choice of champion who can talk but his
>work is shaky, and one who can work but is shaky on the mic,
>I'll take the latter.
>
>Good thing MJF can do both. And at least we're in agreement on
>that.
>

I worry that they gave Kenny the title to try to ‘save’ him. He’s a killer worker but sadly the US market won’t allow you to just be a good wrestler who wants to be champ..there has to be some extra character-based shit mixed in there somewhere or you may as well be ROH 10 years ago. I agree that he comes off as goofy and the opposite of cool. But I don’t think anyone’s gonna sack up, tell him that, and do anything to ‘fix’ it. Anything with Ibushi would make all of this stuff awesome. Until then, grand worker, shaky other stuff. Oh, another plus, that finisher is good shit.

Folks who love Hogan nWo title runs..I double dog dare anyone to go back and watch him pretend to be horrified of wrestling Warrior/Piper or whoever. And then the resulting match would damn near be the worst title matches on the show. And his tv matches? Openly horrible. And that Sting Starrcade 97 shit was shameful and it set the stage to put WCW out of business. There were good moments, sure. Goldberg/Hogan was really good. Hogan’s last WWE run as a worker was very fun for most of it and I was shocked the whole time. He looked good still and did some really good work and selling. Oh, and he jobbed more than he ever had so there was that too.

Jericho going to AEW was great for the company. I think it will one day land them a really good free agent who is 35 and not 55. Folks will still cry and moan no matter what but I am very glad that some other company exists that doesn’t have the stank of TNA on it or the lack of reach that plagues ROH. I’m guessing if they sell ads and merch, they are fine for a while. They can’t and won’t be or beat WWE anytime soon. This is good because WWE is fucking bloated right now. We’re about to have like 15 hours of wrestling across 4 days and it’s looking like they won’t have anything for Shinsuke Nakamura to do. That’s ridiculous.

I agree that Jericho’s days of carrying the wrestling portion of anything should be done but he can be asked to do 3 or 4 ‘real’ matches a year. He exists right now to get worked by MJF. And he’s gonna do it so that’s cool.

I absolutely agree with everything you said. Those Hogan runs with the title was awful. He was a good heel, but those matches were horrible and the run lasted longer than it should have.

If anyone would rather watch those matches than an Omega one I can't take their opinions on wrestling seriously.

such a mark for yourself that you contemptuously look down on the millions of fans who watched and filled NBA arenas specifically because of Hogan's heel run, while you arrogantly proclaim that the reson no one gives two shits about Kenny Omega is that those millions of people just dont know better

hes a fucking clown, doing clown shit, that no one gives fuck about. and we know this because he does his clown shit in front of 750k on TV instead of 7 million, and 3500 live pre-pandemic instead of 20k sellouts.

I was always under the impression that wrestling was about making people care about you. but sure...you know better lmao

Wrestling just isn't as popular as it could be. People enjoyed the nWo angle but you're a fool if you thought during that run people were praising Hogan's in ring work and comparing him to people that were far better in the ring.

And calling someone a mark? lol fuckin nerd. Get over yourself. With all your complaints maybe the problem is you. You just don't enjoy it as much as you use to. You know its fine to stop watching and coming online to complain like a bitch?

>Wrestling just isn't as popular as it could be.

you seem to have convinced yourself that this is because of a bad roll of the dice, or that people are somehow less sophisticated than the amateur fan-boys who shit this dreck out.

Youre right, wrestling could be LOT more popular...if it were GOOD.

>People
>enjoyed the nWo angle but you're a fool if you thought during
>that run people were praising Hogan's in ring work and
>comparing him to people that were far better in the ring.

no one gave a fuck because the TV, and the wrestlers, were legitimately over. Kenny Omega woll never be over, no matter how many of your personal criteria he hits. no one cares about this shit.

>And calling someone a mark? lol fuckin nerd. Get over
>yourself.

LMAO im not the one who thinks i know whats good and that other people are stupid if they dont recognize that. Is your reading comp that bad that you dont realize that none of what im saying has to do with my own personal beliefs? Im reporting on the fact that everyone thinks this shit sucks by evidence of the fact that fewer people care than ever in history. YOU are the one implying that if people cant see what you see that they must sonehow be less than. So FOH with your pee wee herman "im rubber youre glue" shit. That shit is pathetically transparent. Also, i love the projection of "nerd" while i advocate for mainstream appeal and you wank yourself over the minutia of niche product.

>With all your complaints maybe the problem is you.
>You just don't enjoy it as much as you use to.

If the problem is me, the root of it is that i havent lowered the bar for what quality television consists of. If thats a me problem, then its a problem i wish everyone else had, because maybe then we would get a well constructed product that a large audience would enjoy.

>You know its
>fine to stop watching and coming online to complain like a
>bitch?

As i said above, if i have to wade through rivers of shit for the individual moments of real emotion and conflict that only come from well done pro wrestling, then Im going to make that experience more tolerable by shitting on the stupidity. If people like it, good for them. But if people think that liking it makes them smarter than other people like you apparently do, then im gonna shit on them too, and have fun doing it.

So yeah. Youre a fucking mark if you think youre more well qualified to determine whats good than the millions of people who abandoned pro wrestling over the last ten years, and especially so if your love for yourself actually leads you to look down on people who dont like this crap.

I complain about a TV show. You indirectly talk veiled shit about other people. You may need to reassess your ability to identify bitch-made behavior, because your readings are off.

>I worry that they gave Kenny the title to try to ‘save’
>him.

its also pretty apparent to me that he was detrimentally booked into needing to BE saved. aside from his style, which many like but i do not, he was not positioned to be the champ before he became the champ.

So far:
- brutally attacked by a cool heel in Moxley(kiss of death btw)
- heeled on Moxley because Moxley was injured
- had his lights turned off clean by PAC
- defeats PAC 2 out of 3 bc the Bucks interfere, and first fall was a DQ
- initiated physicality with Nyla Rose
- aforementioned jobber "5* match"
- assholishly abandons his tag team partner the very first time that partner failed to win the match singlehandedly
- that abortion on the football field
- wins a midcarder filled tournament out of nowhere by beating the tag team partner that carried his ass for months
- the Good Brothers up his ass
- "69 me don"

...

What the fuck lol. Reading it all typed out makes it seem even more absurd.

>He’s a killer worker but sadly the US market won’t
>allow you to just be a good wrestler who wants to be
>champ..there has to be some extra character-based shit mixed
>in there somewhere or you may as well be ROH 10 years ago.

He just has no personality. Everything hes been on TV has been "character-based" and I still have no idea who the fuck he IS, because hes clearly a bad actor playing roles.

>Folks who love Hogan nWo title runs..I double dog dare anyone
>to go back and watch him pretend to be horrified of wrestling
>Warrior/Piper or whoever. And then the resulting match would
>damn near be the worst title matches on the show. And his tv
>matches? Openly horrible.

I loved (by vehemently hating) his FIRST nWo title run. It, and the whole NWO, should have ended after Starrcade tho. But it didnt matter if his matches were bad, the crowd ate that shit up by the barrel for half of 96 and all of 97. No one cared that Hogan had a bad match Sunday night when Sting is coming down on a fucking zipline and sending Hogan into a tizzy on Monday.

>Jericho going to AEW was great for the company.

This is undeniable. When he initially did his "I demand a thank you!" bit he even got the smart-marks in the crowd mad.

>Folks will still cry and moan no matter what but I am
>very glad that some other company exists that doesn’t have
>the stank of TNA on it or the lack of reach that plagues ROH.

Thats the thing, I am too. I want AEW to be awesome, and there are these intermittent things that literally lift me out of my seat as im watching. Ive referenced it here a bunch of times, but when Ricky Starks attacked Darby Allen amd did his "I dont need to paint my face to be somebody!" promo 2 inches from Darby's lifeless face...fuck. Just spectacular and visceral and REAL. We're never getting that from WWE programming ever agin, and I personally only get that particular feeling through watching wrestling.

So, if i have sit through AEW's nonsense to get stuff like that, Im 100% going to make that experience more tolerable by venting my frustrations.

>I’m guessing if they sell ads and merch, they are fine for a
>while.

They are but thats also a problem. No pressure to draw means no pressure to change into something that could draw.

>I agree that Jericho’s days of carrying the wrestling
>portion of anything should be done but he can be asked to do 3
>or 4 ‘real’ matches a year. He exists right now to get
>worked by MJF. And he’s gonna do it so that’s cool.

I feel like this is probably the seed for the face run into the sunset lol.

>I groan whenever the Good Brothers come on screen (though I
>hear they're good on BTE). However, at least Omega can work in
>the ring.


The Good Brothers have been the worst thing on BTE on every episode that features them.

They were amusing on Stone Cold's podcast, but they didn't really talk much in BC, and Gallows has always been decent as a heater, whether in Straight Edge Society or Aces and Eights. But they are AGGRESSIVELY unfunny when they're left to their own devices or have to talk a lot.

idk why this was even on the table as a possibility.

and even if for some reason you do decide to do it, could it not wait until after Mania? they about to fumble Lashley.

and 99% of the time it's a bad idea and they don't have a real plan for anyone. It's so dumb.

https://twitter.com/AvoidTIMtation/status/1376721345518706689

it still had me cracking the fuck up though. they should just make his character forgetful as shit

and because Asuka's a fucking pro's pro.

Allegedly it’s real, everyone approved, and it’s gonna air after Mania.

If so, I’m highly pleased before anyone says a word.

>Who you got for Rumble winner?
>
>Any Predictions on who goes to Wrestle Mania and who walks
>away as champ?
>
>Kota Ibush is your new IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental
>Champion. How long will his reign last?
>
>Will Omega collect other titles from other companies and
>because the new Ultimo Dragon of this generation?
>
>This should be an exciting year in Pro Wrestling.

https://wrestlingnews.co/wwe-news/bobby-lashley-and-mvp-met-with-vince-mcmahon-over-hurt-business-breakup/

smfh

>https://wrestlingnews.co/wwe-news/bobby-lashley-and-mvp-met-with-vince-mcmahon-over-hurt-business-breakup/
>
>smfh

I won’t understand Vince’s vendetta against stuff getting over unexpectedly. Everyone was doing very well in that group. Hopefully it’s shenanigans and they’ll end up back together somehow. Otherwise, add them to the stack of folks who might catch hell getting consistent existence on shows.

If it overshadows his own plans and ideas, it's not long for thos world.

If it's something that people hate though?

He'll run that shit into the ground.

And I'm not talking quality, pay to see someone get their ass beat heat. I'm talking go away, this is trash, it's not even fun to hate this, groan more than boo heat.

Like People Power. Or The Authority.

I'm sure exceptions exist in recent history, but there aren't many.

>If it overshadows his own plans and ideas, it's not long for
>thos world.
>

If you had a brilliant plan that you know is gonna work and limited time to give to other shit, cool. But Vince has 5 hours of TV to plan every single week plus a PPV once a month. From all the stories I’ve heard they are scrambling to figure out what they’re doing EVERY. SINGLE. WEEK. Especially on Raw since it went to 3 hours. Why in the hell wouldn’t you let something that’s “accidentally” over continue? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

I feel really bad for Shelton and Cedric. They’ve benefitted greatly from being in a faction and they’re gonna suffer the most from the breakup. You know Vince isn’t doing this cause he has some great plans for them. If they’re lucky they’ll be in the 24/7 title scene.