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Topic subjectI thought you were done? lol
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2720513&mesg_id=2721728
2721728, I thought you were done? lol
Posted by auragin_boi, Tue Sep-29-20 11:21 AM
>The fact that you disregard the fact that Jordan was
>undefeated and dominated his peers, but Lebron didn’t and
>hasn’t, says it all. You use the excuse of them soon to
>being hall of famers
>Well ,Jordan peers were hall of famers:

lol...cmon man. Kareem wasn't undefeated and he has a STRONG case as GOAT. Greatest HS player ever. Greatest college player ever. Then had a great NBA career with 10 trips to the finals and 5 wins.

Magic was 31 when MJ played him in the finals and it was sans Kareem.
Drexler is cool.
Payton is cool.
Barkely is cool.
Malone is an alltime great.
Stockton is an alltime great and passer.

Curry >>> Stockton
At WORST Dirk = Barkley
Durant in G-State is at WORST = Magic at 31 (I'd say better)
Duncan >>>> Malone
Klay/Draymond/Tony Parker/Ginobli at WORST = Drexler/KJ/Payton/Kemp

^^^I'd say LeBron's faced tougher competition.

Bron beat a team that went 73-9. A dynasty, interrupted. Only started because of injuries likely (I think the Cavs win the first time they play if Love and Kyrie aren't hurt, imagine Jordan against the Jazz without Pippen and Rodman or against the Blazers without Pippen and Grant). LeBron, ruled the eastern conference for 8 seasons with TWO different teams man.

>They won zero championships against him. Facts .

And Jordan won zero championships against the 80's Lakers, got beat repeatedly by the 80's Celtics and Piston's. You play who's there at the time and that all counts in your legacy. Given similar circumstances, I don't think Jordan would have done much better or better at all if he had LeBron's career.

At 22, Jordan doesn't beat those 2007 Spurs (mind you, Bron made the finals at age 22, or 4yrs into his career, took Mike 7)
At 23-25 Jordan doesn't beat those Celtics teams or Orlando (Bron's stats in that series were phenomenal).
At 26, Jordan probably beats the Mavs
At 27, He beats OKC
At 28, He beats the Spurs
At 29, He probably doesn't beat the Spurs (LeBron's stats that series look like Jordan's likely would have). Wade had just fallen off.
At 30, He doesn't beat GState without Kyrie and Love
At 31, He beats GState
At 32, He loses to GState
At 33, He loses to GState
At 34, No way he gets a ring with that Lakers team
At 35, He could get this Lakers team a ring

The ONE spot where I think Jordan would have faired better was 2011. But I think LeBron has faired better at 35 than Jordan. And I think he will fair better at 36 than Jordan could have also.

>And you’re still wrong about pippen. You say you follow
>stats but you just proved that you don’t. After pippen left
>the bulls, he went from averaging 19-21 points a game, to 14
>points a game for Houston, and his avg dropped to 12 points
>the year after that, to 10 points with Portland! His avg
>dropped by 7 points at Houston, and 11 points with the
>blazers! So yeah avg 14-12 points with Houston and 10
>points a game with Portland, he was still comparable to his
>play as a bull? You said comparable...Do you know what
>comparable means? If not, I’ll give you a pass.
>You sure you look at stats? Pippen clearly regressed
>immediately after his back went out , and was no longer the
>explosive, tenacious all around player

I'm not wrong. I specifically spelled out why his avg dropped. He was 3rd fiddle playing with Barkley and Dream vs 2nd fiddle playing with Mike. Again, the STATS spell it out. He had a 24.4% usage rate in 1998 with the bulls. That DROPPED to 19.7 in Hou the next year. So he got less opportunity sharing the ball with two other allstars. But all his other stats stayed the same or increased. Which don't say he fell off. Tisk, tisk, talker.

In Portland, his usage rate was pretty much the same as Hou but he was sharing shots with Damon Stoudamire, Steve Smith and Rasheed Wallace and Sabonis. They had a full team. Didn't need him to score as much AND his minutes got cut by 7mpg because they were so deep. Again, you just talk. I watched those games and I know the stats. Oh and for the final slam dunk...Pip didn't miss a game in either of the immediate two seasons after he left the bulls...so much for back problems (for the record, those started his 2nd yr in portland...when he was THIRTY F*CKING FIVE years old).

>LoL. You said his drop off wasn’t significant

It wasn't. The usage changed.

>Also, you make the assumption that the game is better now, as
>if that gives Lebron some type of edge. That is subjective.
>There was rough defense back then, with hand checking and more
>body defense being allowed. It was way harder to score,
>compared to this error where little to no defense is being
>played, and where players lack the ability to play one on one,
>so a lot of teams are resorting to zones

Shooting is much better today. Easier to play D when guys are always trying to drive to the basket. What you gonna do when someone shoots 45% from 35-40 feet? I'd argue that opens the lane up even more and is harder to defend. *Shrug*

Also, Zones are used to address shooters...you cover the full court, get help on drives. The zone is more popular because these players shoot so well from 3, you can't give them deep shots like you could in prior eras. And LMAO at players not being able to play one on one. There are literally ISO offenses created for players to go one on one because the talent in the league is such that it's near impossible to stop some guys. Even the best perimeter defenders today, who could play in any era, get torched consistently. They just slow guys down some.

The game has changed. Too bad your mentality hasn't.

The 1996 bulls shot 40% from 3 and took 1349 3pt shots.
The 2016 Warriors shot 41% from 3 but took 2592 3pt shots.

You have to guard a team that shoots that well from 3, that often, differently than you would a team in the 90's.

>Jordan played one on one defense everyday and won defensive
>player of the year ..and was the first player to get 200
>steals and 100 blocks in a season, and is the only player to
>do it twice!
>In order to be the greatest, you have be great at everything
>on both sides of the ball ..Lebron clearly isn’t.
>Do better on your stat checking

Jordan was a better defender. LeBron is a capable defender and has made all D before. So LeBron can play D and has been recognized for it so he does play both ends of the ball. Jordan is just better at it. However, LeBron is a better all around player and bests Jordan in rebounding and assist. LeBron won the assist title this yr (yes, at 35yrs old, he lead the league in assist per game at 10.2). Something Jordan never did. LeBron is more efficient, has higher FG%, 3pt%, eFG%. Jordan's a better FT shooter. Bron is more effective in the paint (has higher 2pt conversion %). Jordan was better from Midrange. There's pros and cons to both.

None of your romanticism about MJ moves the needle here. Bron has a legit case and continues to build it with finals appearance number 10 and title number 4 on the way.

Only him losing to the Heat could hurt his case.