LeBron just broke the all-time record for most All-NBA Selections (16); and already held the record for most All-NBA First Team Selections (13).

This record comes just about a week after Bron set a new NBA record for an indelible milestone: Most Playoff Wins of All-Time.

At this point - it's almost silly how anomalous LeBron's greatness is - and it's difficult to even keep a tab on all the records being broken.

Here's a list of other notable milestones/records Kang has shattered:

Most career assists by a forward (9,021).
Most consecutive double-digit scoring games: 959 games.
Most times being named Conference Player of the Week (64 times).
Most times being named Conference Player of the Month (46 times).
Most points scored in All-Star games (385).
Most three-point field goals made in All-Star games (38).
Most field goals made in All-Star games (159).
Most times being a starter in All-Star games (16)
Most playoff games with at least 20 points (212).
Most playoff games scoring at least 30 points (110 times).
Most playoff games with at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 10 assists (20).
Most playoff games with at least 30 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists (37).
Most playoff games with at least 40 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists (18).
Most triple-doubles with at least 30 points in the NBA Finals (4).
Most NBA Finals games with at least 30 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists (9).
Most defensive rebounds in the NBA Finals (395).
Most triple-doubles in the NBA Finals (10).

1st in Win Shares (51.0).
11.24 more than the next player on the list Michael Jordan (39.76).

1st in career Value Over Replacement Player (VORP) (129.79).
25.36 more than next player on the list, Michael Jordan (104.43)

*Only player in NBA history to play in eight consecutive NBA Finals, doing so with different teams.
*Only player in NBA history to average a triple double in the NBA Finals.

*Only player in NBA history to lead both teams in points, rebounds, assists, blocks, and steals in a playoff series (2016 NBA Finals vs. Golden State Warriors).
*Only player in NBA history to lead both teams in points, rebounds, assists in a playoff series (twice, 2015 and 2016 NBA Finals vs. Golden State Warriors)
*T-1st place all-time in NBA history to average at least 30 points, 10 rebounds, and 10 assists in a playoff series (2017 NBA Finals vs. Golden State Warriors).
*Only player in NBA history to win over 20 consecutive games in the first round
*Only player in NBA history to sweep 10 series in the playoffs
*Only player in NBA history to record at least 34,000 points, 9,000 rebounds, and 9,000 assists.
*Only player in NBA history to post at least 2,000 points, 500 rebounds, 500 assists, and 100 steals in four consecutive seasons.
*Only player in NBA history to be in the top 5 all-time in points and top 10 all-time in assists.
*Only player in NBA history to have at least 9,000 rebounds and 9,000 assists.
*Most points per game scored by a player on the winning team in any seven-game NBA Finals series with 29.7.
*Only player in NBA history to record at least two triple-doubles with 30 or more points in one NBA Finals series.
*Only player in NBA history to average at least 25 points, 10 rebounds, and 7 assists in an NBA Finals series (accomplished this three times).
*Only player in NBA history to lead both teams in points, rebounds, and assists in an NBA Finals series. (2015 and 2016; also led both teams in steals and blocks in the 2016 Finals.)
*Only player in NBA history to average at least 35 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists in an NBA Finals series.
James averaged 35.8 points, 13.3 rebounds, 8.8 assists in the 2015 NBA Finals.
*Only player in NBA history to score at least 40 points in consecutive elimination games in a single NBA Finals series

Not hard to see why many rank LeBron as the greatest individual talent/performer that the game has ever seen.

Definitely missing a bunch, but this is just a start. Add to this list as the records continue to be broken.

-->

James is averaging 34.1 points, 10.8 rebounds, 7.4 assists, 0.95 blocks and 1.7 steals in eliminations games. James averages the most points of any player in league history who has played at least three elimination games, ahead of Michael Jordan at 31.3 and Wilt Chamberlain at 31.1.

-->

0: # of rings Lebron has won as a Laker

-- two records that may very well never be topped in our lifetimes.

I know you've spent year after year - post after post denigrating LeBron (which is funny considering now he's on your team) - but we can appreciate greatness in motion, regardless of the outcome of what happens this year.

-->

But when you do the math and compare the LENGTH of time that it took to get to
said milestone, then you see the real truth.

And to see lakers fans in here after dissing that nigga for most of his career
because people put him ahead of Kobe.

You gotta see that nigga’s jersey in the rafters next to kobe’s.

So I guess it is Lebron over Kobe ..lol

-->

I’ve seen you go from being a heat fan, to being a Cav fan, now a lakers fan.

God damn.

There was a time when I was upset with bulls management for drafting Rose over Mayo , and I refused to watch the bulls for awhile , but I didn’t become a god damn Memphis fan. And both of those dudes careers took a bad turn.

Have some dignity and commitment about yourself.

>I’ve seen you go from being a heat fan, to being a Cav fan,
>now a lakers fan.

That's what a real fan does when he supporters a player. Does it hurt your feelings that I support players and not owners/franchises?


-->

So you don’t follow a particular team? You’re just a groupie riding in the back of his
Tour bus.

>So you don’t follow a particular team? You’re just a
>groupie riding in the back of his
>Tour bus.

yea that's deep.


-->

>And to see lakers fans in here after dissing that nigga for
>most of his career
>because people put him ahead of Kobe.
>
>You gotta see that nigga’s jersey in the rafters next to
>kobe’s.
>
> So I guess it is Lebron over Kobe ..lol

We COULD be cysing a franchise that hasn't done shit since Luca Doncic was -1 years old.

We COULD be reliving the only time our franchise meant anything with an ESPN documentary.

We COULD be one of those people who never goes, "You know, I had this wrong about Lebron for awhile...I'm good now".

We COULD have been propping up a guy who isn't Michael Jordan to be the next Michael Jordan and when he got his own team like Michael Jordan he went out decidedly like....not Michael Jordan.

But sure. Go ahead and talk that talk, I guess.

And was the best player in the world from 20-33, conservatively.

He's the best to ever lace them up.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Post 2016, I think the consensus was at worst top 3.

If he gets a chip or finals appearance this year? Yikes.

3-8.

And you agreeing with him that he was better than Kobe?

Dude said from age 20-33

I’ve said it on here many many times. Go ahead and dig if you want.

For specific years...no, Kobe had been better some years. But overall? LeBron is nearly a consensus top 3 with Kareem and Jordan.

AND was the best player in the world from age 20-33?

Over Duncan, Kobe, and KD?


best players in the world don’t go 3-8 in finals ....or bounce after PO

Everyone knows that

and who else got to the finals 9 times in that span, let along 8 in a row? No one is even close.

When it comes to all-time rankings you can argue that he’s not able to surpass Jordan or Kareem, but for best of his era he is absolutely 100% over Duncan and Kobe. KD isn’t even in that convo.

it’s the same thing. He is 3 out of 9. Out of 9 finals he won 3 of them. You know like like FG attempts. A person took 13 shots, and hit 6, means he is 6 for 13. Lebron had 9 finals attempts, and won 3 of them, so he is 3 for 9...only winning 33 percent of his championship appearances.

You gave a stat on his win loss record..I gave a stat on his attempts

Mike is 100 percent.

The point still stands. He has a losing record in the finals, and he jumped from team to team to get there.

Jordan and Kobe stood with one team thru the losses....

is just evidence that while lebron doesn't make that shit look easy

he makes it look possible


meanwhile, anyone who attempts to match his run has completely fallen apart either immediately or after a couple years meanwhile lebron is still going

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

A lot of HOFers have been able to compete for a long time (Vince Carter, Karl Malone etc..) - but nobody has ever been this great for this long - even Kareem.

No other player in the game's history was *this* dominant this late in their career. It's not just that Bron is still one of the best in the game - and that's he's still actually the very best in the game playing at a legitimately MVP-level.

You see other guys try to match Bron's RPM and sustained peak elitism - and they just can't do it.

The Warriors dynasty went to 4/5 Finals in consecutive years - and literally all of those stars broke down. Steph? Broke down with injuries, couldn't maintain peak form. Klay? Tore an ACL, could't sustain. KD? Achilles - out for 18 months.

Bron? 8 straight NBA Finals w/ unprecedented mileage/usage (and is once again deep into playoffs for yet another Conference/Finals run) - and is *still* as dominant as ever, in year 17.

We even saw how Wade, Bosh, Love & Kyrie physically broke down trying to keep up w/ the pace that Bron sets.

The Iron-Man standard being set is unreal.


-->

that aint got anything to do with this post but i just seen her on tv.

on another note...these other dudes need to suck brons dick in broad daylight.

niggas straight harry houdini when their team needs them in the biggest moments and people had the nerve to put the strap around their waist at one point or another.

>that aint got anything to do with this post but i just seen
>her on tv.
>
>on another note...these other dudes need to suck brons dick in
>broad daylight.
>
>niggas straight harry houdini when their team needs them in
>the biggest moments and people had the nerve to put the strap
>around their waist at one point or another.
>
>


-->

LOL

Had a homeboy blurt out the exact same thing in the middle of a convo about bikes.
Guess she has that effect on dudes.

that coincides with the LeBron James career in the NBA.

this shit is wild.

in NBA history. To lift Cleveland out of that championship drought - after returning to the Cavs after his Miami stint (when nobody thought he would return after what Gilbert did) - and to do it in *that* fashion, becoming the first team to ever come back from a 3-1 deficit in the NBA Finals, against *that* juggernaut all-time 73-win GS team, was something that couldn't be believed unless you actually saw it.

-->

The glittery hallmark statistic of peak clutchness belongs to LeBron James, too.

-->

He's also #1 all-time in the playoffs (PER Mode Totals) with a TS% of 58.1 (ahead of Jordan).

He's currently #3 all-time in playoff assists, and will likely overshadow John Stockton (the NBA's all-time leader in assists) on that list.

A forward is going to have more playoff assists than John Stockton.

Bananas.

-->

And he is currently 3 out of 9 in championships, winning only 33 percent

You are giving off meaningless ass total stats ...because dude has been in the nba since he was a teenager.

Highest scoring playoff average in history 33.00, Michael Jordan.

Stop putting up bullshit total stats.

The true stat is the length of time it took to get to said stat....post that!
Jordan did it in SHORTER YEARS. And Jordan stopped balling for close to 2 years and then came back!

Sorry, Vex

thinks about Lebron James more than anyone should think about anyone.

Borderline creepy. I mean, look at this thread...just let him have it. It means so much to him.

...that being said, if you decide not to...reminder to point out that Lebron's team hopping has no question led to more wins and stats as he hooks up with the best in the league.

Lebron winning with AD in LA now is about the same as had MJ and Duncan teamed up in NY or something.

So, even if Bron ends up 4-9 in the finals...he needed AD, D-Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen to get there.

And still underachieved in the finals.


Not to mention the benefit of being on more supportive (not stupid) franchises in Miami and LA.


And I love Lebron. Top 5-7 easy. But these over zealous boy crush threads Vex does requires some reality occasionally, I get it.


But look how much this means to Vex. Consider letting him have it.

last 6 years have shown him on a completely different level. the numbers are coming but he is less concerned about them than in previous years.

his complete mental capture of the game is happening when he still has physical tools left in the tank. not sure how long the physical will sustain but he's cheat coding it right now.

I tip a cap to Sir LeBronius "Chosen One" Jamesiticus.

As with Sir Kobeian "81" Bryantus in that latter of his career, I began to appreciate their growth, maturity and body of work. I was once a Kobe hater and became a Kobe fan by the time he was winning his last two titles.

I started as a LeBron fan, was embarrassed by the "I wish LeBron had some help" post, gave some tough love in the bumpy parts of his journey due to it and have come full circle in my appreciation of the man's game and body of work.

I will no longer argue with anyone who says "LeBron James is the greatest player of all time". Because, as with Kareem, it's not an incorrect statement. I can only state the case for my guy and there will be W's and L's in that convo for all 3 so to me, it's an eternal stalemate.

-Kareem has the greatest body of work, HS through NBA.
-Jordan is the smallest of the GOAT candidates and has an impeccable record in the brightest moments/at the mountain top, in a game that was designed for bigger men.
-LeBron has been the most complete physical specimen the league has seen since Wilt yet he's done more with his skills than Wilt and has a wider variety of skills. His longevity and maintenance of his prime ability has surpassed what most have done and he's done it against great competition in the second golden age of the NBA IMO.

Kareem has the best front to back career.
Jordan has 6-0, 72-10.
LeBron has 9 in a row and 4-3 over 73-9.

He ain't my #1, but for the first time in my lifetime, someone other than Jordan could be. I've always said, 2 more rings and it's a wrap. Right now, he's easily my 1b next to Jordan. He gets this yr and 1 more out of these Lakers (VERY possible) and I'll let him have my personal throne.

it is what it is. If Kyrie and love are healthy in 2015 he might've gotten another then. Probably should've gotten another in Miami. This SHOULD be 6 for him but its not.


>He ain't my #1, but for the first time in my lifetime, someone
>other than Jordan could be. I've always said, 2 more rings
>and it's a wrap. Right now, he's easily my 1b next to Jordan.
>He gets this yr and 1 more out of these Lakers (VERY possible)
>and I'll let him have my personal throne.
>
>

5 rings, 11 trips to the finals, ALL the records and accolades, winning in f*cking CLEVELAND, OHIO FOR DAN GILBERT, doing it on 3 different teams where the common denominator was him and riding his peak for this long...I can put him #1, flaws and all.

we slapped this thing together in a year
kobe's death
alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll of the hate (goddamn the nba media has shown their skirts this season)
covid
not actually being able to use our HCA
bubble ball being probably the highest level play we have seen

2016 'chip is self-explanatory - but to follow that with this (given the circumstances you just outlined) would forever associate his name with 2 championship rings that featured the most extraordinary challenges/adversity the league has ever seen.

-->

happen again? lol

when he said on the show that he said he felt like the greatest ever after that win

I understood exactly what he was talking about.


you ain't NEVER going to see another nba champion in cleveland.

the shit is fucking impossible

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

And Jordan would have had 8 straight titles had he not stepped away for 2 years to play baseball. Totally out of basketball shape, with a baseball body, still took the bulls to the playoffs.

So 9 title appearances, jumping from team to team, and losing 6 of those appearances is not as big or even close to a player who won 6 titles and would have won 8 straight.....and two 3 peats?

But he is close to the throne?

Actually, the longer lebron plays the greater Michael becomes ....but of Michael’s accomplishments in a shorter time spans, while also missing 2 years of basketball in his prime!

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Sorry.

The dude you spent half the Last Dance post disparaging?? Man, get yo ass out of here! LOL. You talked about this dude like a dog, on a human level...not even as a player.

hella inconsistent lol

I said pippen was more important to the triangle system, and he was. Phil and Tex put the ball in Pippen’s hand to run the team.

The point was making an argument for pippen, and how the last dance documentary degraded pippen’s ability and his importance to the team. That is what that was about.

Ive always said Mike was the goat and have defended his throne going way back since 2005 on here ...arguing with Kobe and lakers fans.

*Ahem*

"The main piece to all of it was Scottie Pippen, hands down. And Krause made that happen. Jordan sometimes gets too much credit."

"Scottie Pippen was the true center piece bro."

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2709425&mesg_id=2709425&listing_type=search#2709482

Which one is it? Jordan's the GOAT or Pip was the true centerpiece? There's no GOAT IMO that has ever NOT been the centerpiece for his career.

Now tell me you were drunk or high that day so we can move on and discuss your whimsical opinions on basketball. lol

Right he was the true center piece of the triangle system....

Michael is individually the greatest player ever, but he didn’t look to get others involved. So the triangle could not be built around him. That was pippen, the greatest triangle player ever, even Tex said that.


The whole argument was how the last dance, due to jordan’s arrogance, was totally disregarding pippen’s contributions ....and that he was the true centerpiece of what Tex and Phil was trying to do.

how the bulls sucked without Pippen because he was the key to everything.

I even pointed out how the team Pip lead without Jordan, started worse than the 98 bulls did and had a worse win pace than the bulls did when it was just Jordan in 98 for 35 games.

You actually said the whole year was a struggle...for a 24-11 squad that fought age and injuries and finished 62-20 once they got healthy. Which was tied for the best record in the league with Utah.

Struggle does not equal 'less dominant'. The bulls were still dominant, just less than the prior two seasons and that was mostly due to injuries. And they STILL had a 56 win pace with Jordan minus Pippen. And Jordan was 35 at the time. Pip was 28 when Jordan left the first time. So they 'key' at age 28 couldn't manage a better win %/pace than Jordan at age 35, all while having a younger team too?

Nah, you went full bizzaro with the Pip joint.

“Still, the Bulls' worries for the long term lingered. Although
Jackson conceded that Chicago had reached "its lowest ebb in
three years" last week, he reserved final judgment until
seven-time All-Star Scottie Pippen, who underwent surgery on
Oct. 6 to repair a soft tissue injury to his left foot, sees his
first action of 1997-98, probably in mid-December. "I'm not
going to beat these guys up over losing games we would have won
with Scottie," Jackson said last Friday.”

If Scottie was there, Bulls would have won those games, because no
one else could run the triangle like Scottie. That was stated in the last dance
when they were covering the time Jordan retired. Jordan was forced to play point and ,
even though Jordan put up some insane all around numbers, didn’t run the triangle like Scottie

Hell we see it with Rondo on the lakers. Rondo makes lebron life easier, and
gets all players involved. He is better at running the point and facilitating. It’s like against Houston, Lebron went off scoring, but it was the PG play of Rondo that won games 2 and 3.

Kareem once considered the greatest of all time, but magic ran the offense,
and the system couldn’t run without magic.

Mike will always be the INDIVIDUAL GOAT, The Closer, the most dominating player on the court, the efficient assassin.......but Scottie was the center piece of that system, making sure other players contributed

>how the bulls sucked without Pippen because he was the key to
>everything.
>
>I even pointed out how the team Pip lead without Jordan,
>started worse than the 98 bulls did and had a worse win pace
>than the bulls did when it was just Jordan in 98 for 35
>games.
>
>You actually said the whole year was a struggle...for a 24-11
>squad that fought age and injuries and finished 62-20 once
>they got healthy. Which was tied for the best record in the
>league with Utah.
>
>Struggle does not equal 'less dominant'. The bulls were still
>dominant, just less than the prior two seasons and that was
>mostly due to injuries. And they STILL had a 56 win pace with
>Jordan minus Pippen. And Jordan was 35 at the time. Pip was
>28 when Jordan left the first time. So they 'key' at age 28
>couldn't manage a better win %/pace than Jordan at age 35, all
>while having a younger team too?
>
>Nah, you went full bizzaro with the Pip joint.

this got bloody quickly.

That was Michael Jordan the person, in that he is a scum bag. Lebron is way better than mike in that regard.

We’re talking on the court.

And I’ve always protected mike’s throne. How do you think all this started? From Okayplayer Jordan Kobe arguments. Are you new?

So I don't see us agreeing.

But for every pro for Mike, there's a pro for LeBron. For every con for Mike, there's a con for LeBron.

You just said it yourself. Michael Jordan quit...twice. That's his fault and his fault alone. Nobody elses. At least LeBron showed up for it all.

Mike let Dream throw shade on his legacy by giving people the eternal question of 'would the bulls have beaten the rockets?'

On top of that, we can't say 8 in a row because we don't know if the personnel decisions would have been the same had Jordan stayed. I think 4-5 in a row would have been a given. Or maybe they split with Houston, are forced to make changes and then run off another 3. Don't know, didn't happen, Jordan's fault.

I think, if Krause had been committed to riding it until the wheels fell off and just kept trying to improve the team (which he had something other GM's didn't have...his superstar willing to take 3 mil a yr so they could spend money elsewhere to improve the team) then 8 in a row...maybe even 9 because I would have picked them in the lockout year against the spurs too...would have been possible.

Kareem was 5-4 in the finals. BUT HE WENT 9 TIMES and played in the first golden age of hoops.

LeBron could go to the finals 11-12 times in an 20yr career. There are teams that haven't been to the finals since the 70's man and with this guy you'd be guaranteed 50/50+ shot at it...just be a competent GM.

Stats, longevity at his peak, titles, ability...yup, he has a legacy that can compete with anyones, even Jordan and Kareem.

*shrug*

>And Jordan would have had 8 straight titles had he not
>stepped away for 2 years to play baseball. Totally out of
>basketball shape, with a baseball body, still took the bulls
>to the playoffs.
>
>So 9 title appearances, jumping from team to team, and losing
>6 of those appearances is not as big or even close to a player
>who won 6 titles and would have won 8 straight.....and two 3
>peats?
>
>But he is close to the throne?
>
>Actually, the longer lebron plays the greater Michael becomes
>....but of Michael’s accomplishments in a shorter time
>spans, while also missing 2 years of basketball in his
>prime!

Powerful posting.

The selective nit-picking is egregious. When someone (like all stah) criticizes LeBron on *everything* - but paints other greats with Utopian shades - you already know the agenda at play lol.

There are pros & cons for both of them, indeed.

Re: Jordan - it is interesting how little the Houston Rockets are talked about with regards to his legacy. They were by far the best team of that era that Jordan would've ever faced, and we would've seen it if Jordan didn't lose to the Magic en route to the Finals (something else that is often left out of the discussion) - but that Rockets back-to-back squad was the real deal, and Jordan conveniently dipped out just in time to avoid that juggernaut of a team.

Also, people rarely acknowledge how great that Bulls team was even without MJ. Pippen was a top 3 MVP candidate when Jordan quit the first go-around, and the Bulls were a blown call away from being right back in the Conference/Finals mix. In fact, they won essentially the exact same amount of games after Jordan left - virtually no dropoff. When Bron left Cleveland (twice) and Miami - they were in the lottery. LeBron often had to carry a much heavier load.

Again - this isn't to take anything away from Jordan as being regarded the GOAT - he's up there for me as one of the 3 with a claim to that title - but if we're going to talk about Bron's cons (and he certainly has his as well) - let's at least have a robust, all-encompassing discussion and not act like any of these GOATS are without flaw.


-->

Bulls went 7 with the knicks and should have won (would have with MJ) then the knicks blew it against the Rox (Had a 3-2 lead and Ewing blew a layup when he should have dunked).

I think the Bulls beat the Rockets in 6 games. Now, in 1995, all bets were off. Dream was on another level and I'm not sure what the Bulls would have looked like because Horace left for Orlando (so he would have had to stay).

1995 would have been the year I would have been worried about.

But Jordan quit. So we'll never know.

Even if the bulls make the finals after his baseball stint, wouldn't have been the same. He wasn't ready to play hoops on that level and teams had been prepping for playoff basketball. He would have been better served just coming back that summer and getting ready for 96 but Mike thought "I'm the Goat. I can just come back and dominate".

So now we have to hear people bring up the 'Orlando' series like the Magic were anywhere near good enough to beat them.

Jordan quit?

Jordan retired and was possibly suspended. And had he not retired, Horace definitely
would have still been there.

No one has ever said Jordan quit. No bulls fan has ever said that.

>Jordan quit?
>
>Jordan retired and was possibly suspended. And had he not
>retired, Horace definitely
>would have still been there.
>
>No one has ever said Jordan quit. No bulls fan has ever said
>that.

Did you watch the last dance? Horace and Jordan had a rift. I don't think Horace stays even if Mike is there. ESPECIALLY if he already had 4 rings and the Magic were gonna pay him more. And there was this:

"One of the reasons Grant left the Bulls was his desire to get more involved in the offense. Phil Jackson saw him exclusively as a rebounder and defender, doing a lot of the dirty work. And Grant wanted to do more. He averaged 15.5 points per game on a career-high 12.5 field goal attempts per game in that 1994 season."

That ain't changing if Jordan is still on the team. Also, take off them GOAT goggles fam. We actually sussed out an instance of Jordan quitting on his team during the Kobe wars here. LB'sfinest got 'em. I couldn't even argue it. He quit cold on Doug Collins' next to last game with the Bulls (prolly lead to his firing).

Jordan didn't want to run point after doing it for a few months at the end of the 89 season. In game 5 of the ECF against the Pistons later that season, Doug pressured Mike to be PG and pass more.

Mike was on fire that series. Then got asked to pass. So what did Mike do? Take 8 shots. Yup. 8. In a playoff game, in a series that was tied 2-2 in which the Bulls were leading the whole series and Pistons had to tie it up.

Game 5 changed it all. Bulls were leading, Pistons made a second half run, Jordan...didn't shoot. Wanted to prove the point that he was the best scoring option.

He quit. They lost.

Next game, Jordan took 26 shots (handed out 13 assist too). Didn't matter though because the Pistons seized momentum, beat the Bulls in 6.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/198905310DET.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgiPrZ1eDTU
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/bulls/ct-chicago-bulls-doug-collins-firing-20200425-2ass2omhq5gmrpi5bh7bmmbnoi-story.html

So while MJ might be the GOAT, he has his flaws man. Let's not act like he doesn't.

He quit in game 5. He quit in 1993 and he quit in 1999. Then quit for good in 2003.

But one thing I will say is that it was pretty evident that Jordan was run down after the first three-peat - physically, emotionally and mentally. From the controversy surrounding his once untarnished public image - to just the raw rigor of enduring through those epic title runs, he was quite spent (by his own admission).

The baseball escapism was arguably better for him in the long-run, to have just enough in the tank to bring home 4, 5 & 6 -- because asking him to continue to win his 4th & 5th consecutive title against that Rockets team is crazy. But if anyone could've done it - it was probably him.

Seeing how broken down that team was after the run also gives more credence to the Iron-Man standard set by LeBron, who is now poised to go 9-for-9 in his Finals playoff campaigns over the past decade, winning his conference every single time he vies for a championship over a 10 year stretch. And he's looking unfathomably spry for a 17-year veteran while doing so.

gave out like they feared it would. Pippen was never the same player after that.

No. His career can’t compete with theirs because of the simple fact of him needing to jump to different squads and acquiring other MVP players to win. Mike never or needed to do that, neither did Kareem.

Had he stayed with Cleveland the second time, then ,maybe, his ascension would be more appreciated. However, when he lost, he left again. Now that’s a quitter.

Mike didn’t quit. Mike’s father was killed, and he needed to step away, or maybe he was actually suspended for gambling. Either or, he didn’t quit because he lost. He went out on top after each retirement.

( In Washington he was an executive/player)!

Lebron quit after losing twice.

Come on.

Also, Mike’s stats would have been even greater than what they were. He won 10 scoring titles. That would have easily been twelve.

Mike played 13 years as a Bulls player, and that was the only team he went to the playoffs with. Lebron has been in the league for 17 years, and he is just breaking those Jordan playoff totals. It took him 17 years to do something that mike did in 13 years. Mike won 6 titles in 13 years. He was a champion for six of the 13 years he was with the Bulls. Lebron has won 3 titles in the 17 years he has been in the league, all while setting up the teams the way that he wanted them to be.


Lebron is not an equal

>gave out like they feared it would. Pippen was never the same
>player after that.

This happened AFTER the bulls and even then, Pip was good enough to take Shaq and Kobe to 7 in the WCF in 2000, yet not good enough to keep going with the Bulls? And even so...Pip was 32 and the end of the Bulls dynasty, him at 33/34 and Jordan at 36/37 lose to either the Spurs or Lakers the following two years and people would just say, they aged out. I personally think they were good enough for 1 more.

>No. His career can’t compete with theirs because of the
>simple fact of him needing to jump to different squads and
>acquiring other MVP players to win. Mike never or needed to do
>that, neither did Kareem.

Fact #1 - LeBron James has played with no other league MVP. Never. Not once. A finals MVP, but not league.

Fact #2 - Kareem's team won 47 games (lakers) and he won MVP and then got the #1 pick via coin flip to get Magic Johnson (who said he would have gone back to Mich St had the other team in the coin flip, The Chicago Bulls, had won it). He also played with Oscar Robinson when he won his first ring in Mil...then he changed teams. Also, the Lakers during their dynasty got Worthy #1 pick in 1982. So a playoff team with the MVP got two #1 picks in 3 yrs.

To put that into context. Lebron won his first MVP in 2009. The Cavs lost to Orl in the ECF that yr. If the Cavs had gotten the #1 pick that year, they get Blake Griffin. If they get the #1 pick 3 yrs later, they get Anthony Davis.

Yeah, that's the type of team Kareem had. He didn't HAVE to leave.

>Had he stayed with Cleveland the second time, then ,maybe, his
>ascension would be more appreciated. However, when he lost, he
>left again. Now that’s a quitter.

Clev sucks as an organization, is small market and cheap with a crappy owner. No way they build a team strong enough to support a consistent title run with him there. Plus, nobody wants to live in clev when they can live in Miami, NY, Chi, LA, SF, etc


>Mike didn’t quit. Mike’s father was killed, and he needed
>to step away, or maybe he was actually suspended for gambling.
>Either or, he didn’t quit because he lost. He went out on
>top after each retirement.

I just highlighted an instance where Mike quit while losing. *Shrug*

People in the NBA have lost close family and parents. They didn't retire due to it in the prime of their careers (he was 29!!!!). That was Jordan's fault all to his own.

>Lebron quit after losing twice.

LeBron still playing. Dragging his 3rd franchise to the promised land. Won a title in Clev man. WHO WINS A TITLE IN CLEV?!?!?!

>Come on.

Exactly.

>Also, Mike’s stats would have been even greater than what
>they were. He won 10 scoring titles. That would have easily
>been twelve.

Would have. But he quit.

>Mike played 13 years as a Bulls player, and that was the only
>team he went to the playoffs with. Lebron has been in the
>league for 17 years, and he is just breaking those Jordan
>playoff totals. It took him 17 years to do something that
>mike did in 13 years. Mike won 6 titles in 13 years. He was a
>champion for six of the 13 years he was with the Bulls. Lebron
>has won 3 titles in the 17 years he has been in the league,
>all while setting up the teams the way that he wanted them to
>be.
>
>
>Lebron is not an equal

LeBron has played at this level for 17 straight years. Was anointed before he ever played in the NBA. Dragged teams of garbage and Drew Carey Show extras to the Finals only to be bested by better teams. Took his lumps, took control of his career, stumbled and learned how to win. Faced Dirk (MVP/Finals MVP), Duncan 3x (generational talent MVP, Finals MVP, multi champ) Durant, Harden and Westbrook (all MVP's, a multi Finals MVP), Steph/Klay/Dray (multi MVP, best shooters in the history of the game and a DPOY), in his trips to the finals.

Gonna win some and lose some. Especially when their teams are better. I'd say Bron probably faced the most illustrious group of Finals comp since the Lakers/Celtics teams and even then, it was just two francises.

This might actually be the least decorated finasl opponent he's ever faced if he wins this yr lol

Bron went to the finals 9 times man. NINE. 8 in a ROW and didn't get a major injury. BALLED. And he broke some Jordan records earlier in his career. Set some of his own that Jordan doesn't hold (see Vex's list). And yes, some have take longer than others.

It is what it is. But Bron absolutely deserves to be in the convo.

Mike a quitter. You want to push your narrative no matter how illogical your retorts are.
You are comparing Mike losing his father to other basketball players losing a loved one.
Mike’s Father was murdered, and his father was his everything.

Mike is and was a lot of things, but a quitter he is not. However, you have every excuse in the book for Lebron quitting on his teams after losing.

I can’t take you seriously anymore after those comments.

And the comments regarding Pippen are way off as well. After Pippen’s back gave out, he was no longer tenacious on defense or as prolific like he was during the championship runs. Had Houston and Portland had that type of Pippen, they both would have won championships.

It’s quite obvious you are going to support Lebron regardless of how tarnished
his career is as a basketball player compared to Michael Jordan’s career. Jordan’s efficiency in winning titles, generating statistics, and dominating his peers are and will never be matched by Lebron. Mike dominated his era when he became champion.

Lebron didnt. Dirk, Duncan, Steph, Kawhi, and KD all snatched titles from him. I’m going to leave it out on that.

And as far as Kareem goes, he was drafted by the Bucks organization, and won a a championship with the organization before moving on to LA. He didn’t recruit players
or seek to build a big three , and he didn’t quit after losing a title to join another team. He got better and avenged his championship losses on the same team

So I salute you with a peace , and I’m out.

But i'm telling, things can coexists.

Mike can be the GOAT AND a quitter...because he was. He quit on Doug Collins in game 5 of a playoff game. I gave you proof: stats, video and an article to support it in post 63. Ignore it all you want, Jordan quit and costed the Bulls a shot at putting the pistons down and making it to the finals.

Explain how MJ takes 8 shots in a playoff game. I'll wait.

I know he's our young adulthood hero from a hoops perspective but truth is truth. And no matter how you try to spin it, quitting is quitting no matter the reason.

IT3 lost his sister in the middle of a playoff run during a contract year. Took a game off, came back and played...through an injury. KAT just lost his mom to Corona. Kwame Brown lost his mom in 2009, Wayne Ellington's father was shot and killed in 2014, Tremont Waters' dad died of suicide last summer.

^^^None of these guys quit/retired after. *shrug*


>Mike a quitter. You want to push your narrative no matter how
>illogical your retorts are.
>You are comparing Mike losing his father to other basketball
>players losing a loved one.
>Mike’s Father was murdered, and his father was his
>everything.

Look up...even got a murder for you. A fellow Tarheel at that.

>Mike is and was a lot of things, but a quitter he is not.
>However, you have every excuse in the book for Lebron quitting
>on his teams after losing.
>
>I can’t take you seriously anymore after those comments.

You're irrational because you're a fan. It makes sense but you're wrong. Facts trump emotion all day, everyday. Your opinion of what someone is or isn't doesn't make it true.

Jordan retiring = he quit. He's no longer working, quit his job.
I work in HR. We designate anything by firing as a quitting, even retirement because it was a voluntary decision by the employee. Not forced.

>And the comments regarding Pippen are way off as well. After
>Pippen’s back gave out, he was no longer tenacious on
>defense or as prolific like he was during the championship
>runs. Had Houston and Portland had that type of Pippen, they
>both would have won championships.

If you say so...but the stats don't support this.
He played 40mins a game in the 50 lockout games (played ALL of the lockout games too) for the rockets and all his stats were fairly consistent to his Bulls stats sans scoring because he shot less in the Hou offense. Stls, blks, all consistent, rebs and ast were up. Next season with Por was a slight drop off but nothing drastic and he was playing 33mpg so 7 mins less. Drop off makes sense.

You just talk with no research or context. I watched those games and I have stats to back it up. You just talk.

>It’s quite obvious you are going to support Lebron
>regardless of how tarnished
>his career is as a basketball player compared to Michael
>Jordan’s career. Jordan’s efficiency in winning titles,
>generating statistics, and dominating his peers are and will
>never be matched by Lebron. Mike dominated his era when he
>became champion.

Jordan was great. He is my GOAT. LeBron is great. The totality of his body of work if he wins 5 titles in 20yrs, playing at his current level, in the 2nd golden age of the NBA, against THIS competition while going to the finals 12 times...yeah, I could say he's the greatest to ever do it.

>Lebron didnt. Dirk, Duncan, Steph, Kawhi, and KD all snatched
>titles from him. I’m going to leave it out on that.

Yup...probably 5 of the 30 greatest players to ever play. At least 3 of those guys will be top 15 when their careers are over. One is arguably top 10 and the other has to be top 30-40.

>And as far as Kareem goes, he was drafted by the Bucks
>organization, and won a a championship with the organization
>before moving on to LA. He didn’t recruit players
>or seek to build a big three , and he didn’t quit after
>losing a title to join another team. He got better and avenged
>his championship losses on the same team

He didn't have to. The NBA didn't have a lottery so the Lakers got gifted franchise players to put next to him. And Kareem lost to a great team, just like LeBron did. *shrug*

The NBA in 2010+ is not the NBA in 1979 or 1989. Norms change. Stop whining about it.

>So I salute you with a peace , and I’m out.

You should be with these weak ass arguments.

The fact that you disregard the fact that Jordan was undefeated and dominated his peers, but Lebron didn’t and hasn’t, says it all. You use the excuse of them soon to being hall of famers

Well ,Jordan peers were hall of famers:

Magic
Drexler
Payton
Barkley
Malone
Stockton

They won zero championships against him. Facts .

And you’re still wrong about pippen. You say you follow stats but you just proved that you don’t. After pippen left the bulls, he went from averaging 19-21 points a game, to 14 points a game for Houston, and his avg dropped to 12 points the year after that, to 10 points with Portland! His avg dropped by 7 points at Houston, and 11 points with the blazers! So yeah avg 14-12 points with Houston and 10 points a game with Portland, he was still comparable to his play as a bull? You said comparable...Do you know what comparable means? If not, I’ll give you a pass.

You sure you look at stats? Pippen clearly regressed immediately after his back went out , and was no longer the explosive, tenacious all around player

LoL. You said his drop off wasn’t significant

Also, you make the assumption that the game is better now, as if that gives Lebron some type of edge. That is subjective. There was rough defense back then, with hand checking and more body defense being allowed. It was way harder to score, compared to this error where little to no defense is being played, and where players lack the ability to play one on one, so a lot of teams are resorting to zones

Jordan played one on one defense everyday and won defensive player of the year ..and was the first player to get 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season, and is the only player to do it twice!

In order to be the greatest, you have be great at everything on both sides of the ball ..Lebron clearly isn’t.

Do better on your stat checking

https://goatme.me/m/ByWCzhls.jpg

>The fact that you disregard the fact that Jordan was
>undefeated and dominated his peers, but Lebron didn’t and
>hasn’t, says it all. You use the excuse of them soon to
>being hall of famers
>
>Well ,Jordan peers were hall of famers:
>
>Magic
>Drexler
>Payton
>Barkley
>Malone
>Stockton

lol...cmon man. Kareem wasn't undefeated and he has a STRONG case as GOAT. Greatest HS player ever. Greatest college player ever. Then had a great NBA career with 10 trips to the finals and 5 wins.

Magic was 31 when MJ played him in the finals and it was sans Kareem.
Drexler is cool.
Payton is cool.
Barkely is cool.
Malone is an alltime great.
Stockton is an alltime great and passer.

But...
Curry >>> Stockton
At WORST Dirk = Barkley
Durant in G-State is at WORST = Magic at 31 (I'd say better)
Duncan >>>> Malone
Klay/Draymond/Tony Parker/Ginobli at WORST = Drexler/KJ/Payton/Kemp

^^^I'd say LeBron's faced tougher competition.

Bron beat a team that went 73-9. A dynasty, interrupted. Only started because of injuries likely (I think the Cavs win the first time they play if Love and Kyrie aren't hurt, imagine Jordan against the Jazz without Pippen and Rodman or against the Blazers without Pippen and Grant). LeBron, ruled the eastern conference for 8 seasons with TWO different teams man.

>They won zero championships against him. Facts .

And Jordan won zero championships against the 80's Lakers, got beat repeatedly by the 80's Celtics and Piston's. You play who's there at the time and that all counts in your legacy. Given similar circumstances, I don't think Jordan would have done much better or better at all if he had LeBron's career.

At 22, Jordan doesn't beat those 2007 Spurs (mind you, Bron made the finals at age 22, or 4yrs into his career, took Mike 7)
At 23-25 Jordan doesn't beat those Celtics teams or Orlando (Bron's stats in that series were phenomenal).
At 26, Jordan probably beats the Mavs
At 27, He beats OKC
At 28, He beats the Spurs
At 29, He probably doesn't beat the Spurs (LeBron's stats that series look like Jordan's likely would have). Wade had just fallen off.
At 30, He doesn't beat GState without Kyrie and Love
At 31, He beats GState
At 32, He loses to GState
At 33, He loses to GState
At 34, No way he gets a ring with that Lakers team
At 35, He could get this Lakers team a ring

The ONE spot where I think Jordan would have faired better was 2011. But I think LeBron has faired better at 35 than Jordan. And I think he will fair better at 36 than Jordan could have also.

>And you’re still wrong about pippen. You say you follow
>stats but you just proved that you don’t. After pippen left
>the bulls, he went from averaging 19-21 points a game, to 14
>points a game for Houston, and his avg dropped to 12 points
>the year after that, to 10 points with Portland! His avg
>dropped by 7 points at Houston, and 11 points with the
>blazers! So yeah avg 14-12 points with Houston and 10
>points a game with Portland, he was still comparable to his
>play as a bull? You said comparable...Do you know what
>comparable means? If not, I’ll give you a pass.
>
>You sure you look at stats? Pippen clearly regressed
>immediately after his back went out , and was no longer the
>explosive, tenacious all around player

I'm not wrong. I specifically spelled out why his avg dropped. He was 3rd fiddle playing with Barkley and Dream vs 2nd fiddle playing with Mike. Again, the STATS spell it out. He had a 24.4% usage rate in 1998 with the bulls. That DROPPED to 19.7 in Hou the next year. So he got less opportunity sharing the ball with two other allstars. But all his other stats stayed the same or increased. Which don't say he fell off. Tisk, tisk, talker.

In Portland, his usage rate was pretty much the same as Hou but he was sharing shots with Damon Stoudamire, Steve Smith and Rasheed Wallace and Sabonis. They had a full team. Didn't need him to score as much AND his minutes got cut by 7mpg because they were so deep. Again, you just talk. I watched those games and I know the stats. Oh and for the final slam dunk...Pip didn't miss a game in either of the immediate two seasons after he left the bulls...so much for back problems (for the record, those started his 2nd yr in portland...when he was THIRTY F*CKING FIVE years old).

>LoL. You said his drop off wasn’t significant

It wasn't. The usage changed.

>Also, you make the assumption that the game is better now, as
>if that gives Lebron some type of edge. That is subjective.
>There was rough defense back then, with hand checking and more
>body defense being allowed. It was way harder to score,
>compared to this error where little to no defense is being
>played, and where players lack the ability to play one on one,
>so a lot of teams are resorting to zones

Shooting is much better today. Easier to play D when guys are always trying to drive to the basket. What you gonna do when someone shoots 45% from 35-40 feet? I'd argue that opens the lane up even more and is harder to defend. *Shrug*

Also, Zones are used to address shooters...you cover the full court, get help on drives. The zone is more popular because these players shoot so well from 3, you can't give them deep shots like you could in prior eras. And LMAO at players not being able to play one on one. There are literally ISO offenses created for players to go one on one because the talent in the league is such that it's near impossible to stop some guys. Even the best perimeter defenders today, who could play in any era, get torched consistently. They just slow guys down some.

The game has changed. Too bad your mentality hasn't.

The 1996 bulls shot 40% from 3 and took 1349 3pt shots.
The 2016 Warriors shot 41% from 3 but took 2592 3pt shots.

You have to guard a team that shoots that well from 3, that often, differently than you would a team in the 90's.

>Jordan played one on one defense everyday and won defensive
>player of the year ..and was the first player to get 200
>steals and 100 blocks in a season, and is the only player to
>do it twice!
>
>In order to be the greatest, you have be great at everything
>on both sides of the ball ..Lebron clearly isn’t.
>
>Do better on your stat checking

Jordan was a better defender. LeBron is a capable defender and has made all D before. So LeBron can play D and has been recognized for it so he does play both ends of the ball. Jordan is just better at it. However, LeBron is a better all around player and bests Jordan in rebounding and assist. LeBron won the assist title this yr (yes, at 35yrs old, he lead the league in assist per game at 10.2). Something Jordan never did. LeBron is more efficient, has higher FG%, 3pt%, eFG%. Jordan's a better FT shooter. Bron is more effective in the paint (has higher 2pt conversion %). Jordan was better from Midrange. There's pros and cons to both.

None of your romanticism about MJ moves the needle here. Bron has a legit case and continues to build it with finals appearance number 10 and title number 4 on the way.

Only him losing to the Heat could hurt his case.

>
>On top of that, we can't say 8 in a row because we don't know
>if the personnel decisions would have been the same had Jordan
>stayed. I think 4-5 in a row would have been a given. Or
>maybe they split with Houston, are forced to make changes and
>then run off another 3. Don't know, didn't happen, Jordan's
>fault.
>

it was pretty clear that team was not gonna hold up for 8 titles in a row. Just impossible. Splitting with the Rockets seems like the most likely scenario, but then how do those years affect the following 3? Plus whose to say there isn't a massive injury that throws off everything?

The quote was something to the effect of "I'm glad they
can't get outta the west, because we can't stop that monster."

Olajuwon used to cook the Bulls. Awful matchup for Chicago.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

That was a dope read. Really well-reasoned, too. This is such an important point to me when it comes to this discussion:

>I will no longer argue with anyone who says "LeBron James is
>the greatest player of all time". Because, as with Kareem,
>it's not an incorrect statement. I can only state the case
>for my guy and there will be W's and L's in that convo for all
>3 so to me, it's an eternal stalemate.

The way you've outlined this GOAT conversation is perfect IMO. I also have Jordan, Kang & Kareem as interchangeable GOATS - whereby I concur that there really is no incorrect ranking of the aforementioned as there are viable objective arguments for all 3 of them.

Also - props to changing your perspective on this as the data has poured in over the years. That's the sign of a real analyst and somebody who's not stuck in a particular narrative 'til death do us part.

I've long contended (since 2009) that LeBron would end up in the current category he's in (as regarded as one of the few in the game's history to have a legitimate claim to the GOAT throne) - but I realize my contention was one that could only be vindicated through time, given its origin as one of prophecy as opposed to the predominate view at that time (which was hyberbolic/negative).

But I also share in your experiences with Kobe. I wasn't a fan initially - but I grew to appreciate his greatness as time went on - and certainly after he did his thing after being in the shadow of Shaq for those first 3 'chips. I was also persuaded by the data and his undeniable contributions to the game.

There's far too much rigidity with sports analysis these days - to where "analysts" just cling to dogma until the very bitter end.

And what a bitter end it is for those still insisting that LeBron James does not belong in the GOAT discussion.



-->

I was watching him against the Rockets marveling at how he's still this good with minimal signs of drop off.

Jordan won his last ring at 35 but I could see the slippage that year. He was still Goaty, but I saw time catching up with him. Thought he had maybe 1 more run in him before someone either dethroned him or showed him his time was coming to an end.

Shaq would have been that guy had Jordan kept playing from 1999 through let's say 2001. Hell, Reggie might have knocked him off at some point.

That 7 game series in 1998 was the first time I actually thought they might lose before the finals during both runs.

LeBron isn't the 29yr old version of himself but the guy I'm looking at could probably play 3 more seasons at just this level. That's amazing to me.

Wilt>Kareem and it's not even close. And don't give me this "players you've seen bullshit" because the handful of us who saw the ass end of Kareem's career didn't see any goat; his best years were in the 70s and early 80s. It is ridiculous that a guy who sonned the deepest competition in the history of the league at center and was a statistician's wet dream in the process is getting this level of oversight and disrespeect.

As for LeBron, yeah, he has BEEN in the GOAT conversation. To me he established himself as the best player since Jordan in 2007 and it's only taken off from there. Even before his first title he was in the goat convo and obviously he's won two more since (including the tour de force with Cleveland) and been to seven more finals over all.

To me you have a pretty clear all-time starting five with a twin tower Wilt/Kareem up front, LeBron at the 3, Jordan at the two and I'd argue Oscar Robertson rounding it out. That's intriguing at a time when other all-time teams and lists are really up for debate because of the quality and depth of talent in the league in recent years.

But he got sonned too many times by Russell and Kareem sonned him. Just like Lebron, he lost too many championships and his peers got the best of him.

I can’t put him over Kareem.


However, it’s all objective.

News to me, though he should have given that Wilt was in the twilight of his career and Cap was at his physical peak.

Did Russell son him? Not sure about that, more like the Celtics as a whole did. Who did Wilt grab those 55 rebounds against? Also Russell had a better career than any of these guys.

Wilt is the second greatest athlete of all time. He was a track and field athlete, and he ran the 400m In 49 seconds, ran the 100m in 10 + seconds and ran the 800m in 1.48 seconds.

However, he didn’t have a skillful offensive game like Kareem. Kareem was ten times better in that department. Yes, Wilt scored 100 points in a game, but he was the tallest man on the floor. However, that wasn’t the case when he faced Bill Russell.

Kareem had an unstoppable shot , more championships, and more mvps. He was just more dynamic.

To make Wilt out like some brute ignores reality, he had fantastic touch around the rim and all sort of moves in the post. He could also run the floor much better than Cap or just about any big man. In addition to the athletic exploits you mentioned, he was also a phenomenal leaper with world-class strength (read what Arnold said about him in the gym).

Wilt was much taller than Russell and he generally wasn't playing against midgets. Look at the competition he faced and all more consistently since there were fewer teams in the league. Russell, Reed, Thurmond, et al, much stronger competition than say Shaquille O'Neal faced at his peak and even Jabbar really (though it's close). The idea that he was dunking on a bunch of 5'10" white guys is so false. I don't even bring up 61-62 because it is so surreal, how about him winning the triple crown in the late 60s and then basically doing whatever he felt like in the early 70s. He would basically not shoot until someone would write that he was losing it, then he'd drop 50 and go back to doing what he was doing. He could control a pro game the way most great players control a high school game.

have ever or will ever be CLOSE to that.

Since blocks weren't an official stat it isn't official but one year he led the league in scoring, rebounds, assists and blocks. That was when the league was considerably more integrated and more athletic than when he started his career, too.

I always think it's laughable when people rank Russell ahead of him.

But Kareem? Def a strong case to rank Kareem ahead of him - but I'm not mad if you rank Wilt ahead of Kareem at all.

-->

I don't subscribe to the argument because it is a team sport and the Celtics were generally the best team. But Russ won a lot of head to head matchups and the ones in 68 and 69 were brutal for Wilt's legacy, even if he was injured in '69. The Celtics were substantially weaker by that point, though they did also beat a great Knicks team.

Jabbar is way up there and I'd say that like Russell he had a better career in terms of team success than Wilt. But in terms of an individual player, nobody is all that close to Wilt.

LeBron this year has just blown me away. He is losing a little athletically but getting sharper all the time. He has really stepped up as a leader on defense this year, which has always been an underrated part of his game. They are really strong on D this year and they can flip the switch and just devour teams for about half a quarter, enough to turn a game. Spacing and discipline on offense is also very strong, and he has a lot to do with that, obviously.

over his career.
Kobe, DRose, Durant, Paul Pierce, Kawhai, steph, durant, harden, giannis...NONE of them have accomplished anything close to what dude has over his career.
it really is remarkable. We're seeing some 60s style statistical dominance, and we're not appreciating it cuz we keep conparing to one player.

We take 28, 7 & 7 for granted from a guy who's been in the league for like 17 years.

>over his career.
>Kobe, DRose, Durant, Paul Pierce, Kawhai, steph, durant,
>harden, giannis...NONE of them have accomplished anything
>close to what dude has over his career.
>it really is remarkable. We're seeing some 60s style
>statistical dominance, and we're not appreciating it cuz we
>keep conparing to one player.
>
>We take 28, 7 & 7 for granted from a guy who's been in the
>league for like 17 years.

All facts.


-->

and yet somehow that also says something about his greatness and singularity

Insane.

You'll never see any player achieve this again in the modern era.

-->

10/17.

My goodness.

and with 4 completely diff. teams.

What?!

Never will happen again.

-->

2 shortened seasons that look like there will be adequate rest in between.

im not sure there are that many other teams that will get much better with the condensed scheduling either. at least not ones that could legit threaten for a title. nets and warriors obviously. then maybe miami and denver i guess?

clippers will still be talking about not having a full season to develop chemistry.

LeBron's Team has been in the NBA Finals... since 2011.

SINCE 2011. The team with LeBron James in it has been in the NBA Finals.

What the fuck, lol.

8 out of 9 years in the Finals, on 3 different franchises, that's hilarious

the other thing is that, should the Lakers win the title this season....

...LeBron is going to be the recipient of two emotionally impactful NBA titles that will be remembered forever:

1. Ending a Drought
2. Mourning/Avenging a Hero During A Pandemic

LeBron wins the big games. Hail "Klang James" (© a Facebook friend who is a huge Laker/Kobe fan)

>LeBron's Team has been in the NBA Finals... since 2011.
>
>SINCE 2011. The team with LeBron James in it has been in the
>NBA Finals.
>
>What the fuck, lol.
>
>8 out of 9 years in the Finals, on 3 different franchises,
>that's hilarious

I think its actually 9 out of 10 years - which is absolutely bananas.

>the other thing is that, should the Lakers win the title this
>season....
>
>...LeBron is going to be the recipient of two emotionally
>impactful NBA titles that will be remembered forever:
>
>1. Ending a Drought
>2. Mourning/Avenging a Hero During A Pandemic

It would be crazy to hold the crown for those two championships if he can win it this year. The degree of difficulty of 2016 was insane, and the symbolism of doing it this year (pandemic, Kobe, BLM etc..) would be akin to Muhammad Ali level legendary feat when he beat Foreman later in his career.

-->

>It would be crazy to hold the crown for those two
>championships if he can win it this year. The degree of
>difficulty of 2016 was insane, and the symbolism of doing it
>this year (pandemic, Kobe, BLM etc..) would be akin to
>Muhammad Ali level legendary feat when he beat Foreman later
>in his career.

-->

in the post -season. He has record 3 this year.

The only other Lakers with 1 such game are James Worthy (1988) and Jerry West (1969).

-->

He is now 38-10 (.792 win pct) all-time in closeout games.

That is the best record by a player in NBA postseason history (min. 25 games).

-->

in NBA history.

-->

except 3 -- Lakers, Celtics and Warriors (Philly/GS)

-->

NBA superstars at age 35

• Michael Jordan: retired
• Larry Bird: limited to 45 games (retired at end of season)
• Shaquille O’Neal: 13.6 PPG, traded to Phoenix
• Wilt Chamberlain: 14.8 PPG (lowest in career to that point)
• LeBron James: headed to 9th NBA Finals in 10 years - finishes 2nd in MVP voting

-->

that I'm pretty sure all of these players had a college career prior to the NBA, LeBron didn't.

so he's been doing this since teenage years

>NBA superstars at age 35
>
>• Michael Jordan: retired <---Nah. He turned 35 in Feb of the 1998 season. Just like LeBron turned 35 in Dec of this season.

Everything else tracks. You can do the side by side of them tho if you want.

>>NBA superstars at age 35
>>
>>• Michael Jordan: retired <---Nah. He turned 35 in Feb of
>the 1998 season. Just like LeBron turned 35 in Dec of this
>season.

Right - but he retired at the conclusion of the 1998 season - when he was 35 years old.

LeBron is actually older right now than Jordan was when he won his last title in '98


-->

>Right - but he retired at the conclusion of the 1998 season -
>when he was 35 years old.
>
>LeBron is actually older right now than Jordan was when he won
>his last title in '98

Because LeBron's 35th came a few months before Jordan's in the same season of their careers and the 4 month delay of Covid.

Technically, if LeBron retired after this ring, it would be similar in timing as Jordan's retirement after his 35th bday.

I was saying you looked at this like Mike was done BY 35 and he wasn't. He was still playing at 35 like LeBron is. Both turned 35 during the season.

I'll fix it for you. You either want...

A) Michael Jordan: Won his 6th title in 8yrs, 6th finals MVP and won his 5th and final MVP, while also winning the ASG MVP.
LeBron James: headed to 9th NBA Finals in 10 years - finishes 2nd in MVP voting.

OR

B) A comparison of players after age 35, which would require waiting until next season.

LeBron is now the only player in NBA History to average 25+ PPG in the postseason heading into the NBA Finals with three different teams.

-->

this post-season in just 20 games. He's done this 6 times. The only other player to achieve this in the game's history is Larry Bird (who achieved this once in '87).


-->

earned while playing for 3 different franchises.

2 for Miami
1 for Cleveland
1 (at least) for L.A.





-->

I remember a friend of mine once said he didn't like watching LeBron because he "just bulldozes his way to the rim" - which I thought was an absurd trivialization of his immense skill-set. Against Cleveland, Kang gave you the Kareem floating sky hook - the Steph Curry logo 3 - the iconic MJ fadeaway from an impossible angle to ice game etc.. etc..

Bron is now shooting ~41% from 3 while attempting ~7 shots? Bananas.

Year 18; still the GOAT
-->

including the "BLOCKED BY JAMES" swat that was initially called a goal tend. his best game of the season

(that the Lakers barely won mind you, he went full Super LeBron at the end of that game with 2 LeFuckYou 3s within seconds of each other)

>including the "BLOCKED BY JAMES" swat that was initially
>called a goal tend. his best game of the season

That block was nasty. I even have to say that I'm shocked at just how athletic and dominant he still is at this stage of his career. It's insane.

>(that the Lakers barely won mind you, he went full Super
>LeBron at the end of that game with 2 LeFuckYou 3s within
>seconds of each other)

"LeFuckYou 3s" is my fav. Kang slang of the moment lol.


-->

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lebron-james-passes-wilt-chamberlain-for-third-place-on-nbas-all-time-field-goal-list/

I love this stat because to me - Wilt is one of the most individually dominant players to ever play. Right at the top.
-->

still the most impressive individual talent in the current NBA to me, in his "old" age

Now sits at #3 all time in scoring. Essentially every youngest ever to a points milestone record (5k, 10k, 15k, 20k, 25k et....) is held by LeBron James.

Kareem is Big Mad.

-->

not about any basketball records he's passing.

NBA stat clubs LeBron James is a sole member of:

27000(pts)/7000(rebs)/7000(assists) club
28000/8000/8000 club
29000/9000/9000 club
30000/9000/9000 club
31000/9000/9000 club
32000/9000/9000 club
33000/9000/9000 club
34000/9000/9000 club
35000/9000/9000 club
36000/9000/9000 club

-->

-He leads the NBA in 30-point games this year, despite missing 12 contests.

-He’s averaging his most PPG (28.0) since his first stint with the Cleveland Cavaliers.

-In fact, LeBron is averaging the most points for a 19-year veteran, by far.

-He’s the only player over the age of 35 to have five straight 30+ point games.

-He's now shooting better than KD from 3-point range nearly halfway through the season (at nearly 38%!) on ~8 attempts per game - which is bananas. Remember when they said he couldn't shoot? Yikes.

-In his game against Portland the other night - LeBron became the only player in NBA history to have 43 points and 14 rebounds in under 30 minutes while having zero turnovers. And he did this in year 19.

Literally every time he steps on the court he's creating history.


-->

>-He leads the NBA in 30-point games this year, despite
>missing 12 contests.
>
>-He’s averaging his most PPG (28.0) since his first stint
>with the Cleveland Cavaliers.
>
>-In fact, LeBron is averaging the most points for a 19-year
>veteran, by far.
>
>-He’s the only player over the age of 35 to have five
>straight 30+ point games.
>
>-He's now shooting better than KD from 3-point range nearly
>halfway through the season (at nearly 38%!) on ~8 attempts per
>game - which is bananas. Remember when they said he couldn't
>shoot? Yikes.
>
>-In his game against Portland the other night - LeBron became
>the only player in NBA history to have 43 points and 14
>rebounds in under 30 minutes while having zero turnovers. And
>he did this in year 19.
>
>Literally every time he steps on the court he's creating
>history.
>
>
>-->

his competition isn't jordan, cuz we've already seen a jordan analogue.

We will never see anything close to lebron's career in our lifetimes

If there is a player we can point to that feels like LeBron - it's definitely Wilt - because of the anomalous individual dominance.

I also love how both of them led the league in assists one year, just because they can - which typifies just how individually masterful they both are.

But to me LeBron just takes it to another level re: individual dynamism. The fact that he's actually improving dynamics of his game this late in his career is wild.




-->

>his competition isn't jordan, cuz we've already seen a jordan
>analogue.

then sure.


>We will never see anything close to lebron's career in our
>lifetimes

this is true.

I’m sure (and hope) he has a few more left of these. But it does need to be appreciated up close and in person

So many opportunities to watch LeBron and Steph this year. Such historic, dynamic performances by both of them that are all-time moments. Both of them are also 1-of-1s. I'm enjoying it while it's here.

-->

It fucking sucks that we’re in this stupid pandemic and I had to pass as to not get the ‘cron.

But it’s been dope to be able to get to see Bron in person a fair amount these last few years.

and being more effective at the AD has been, lately?

this ain't to say that he's a better center than AD...but the team damn sure looks better so far. And he's actually posting folks up.

dude's wild

There is ZERO reason Bron should be able to play this much more physical than AD at center, at this age...look at these highlights...he posting dudes up, defending the lane, getting blocks, passing out the post, dunking on centers, etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJqFPGUnkj4

.

I think 37 somehow made people realize he's not going
to play forever (though he might still be the actual
best player in the league right now....LOL), so hopefully
the universe wakes up and appreciates...we are going to be
really fucking sad when this guy stops playing

Draymond's recent quote, where he said how Lebron is
going to be both the youngest to do everything, and oldest
do everything really made it hit home....how is that possible??
SMH

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>Draymond's recent quote, where he said how Lebron is
>going to be both the youngest to do everything, and oldest
>do everything really made it hit home....how is that
>possible??
>SMH

I remember like 6/7 years ago when cats were saying LeBron was finished; would never win another ring etc...

One of a kind longevity trajectory. Never will be seen again.


-->

https://twitter.com/ESPNStatsInfo/status/1479689675908554755

-->

-->

He’s now officially top 10 in points (3rd), assists (7th), and steals (10th).

No other player in history is even top 30 in all of those categories.

-->

If someone would’ve said there would be a player who would come into this league and score more points than Jordan and dish out more dimes than Magic - people would think you’re insane.

Bananas accomplishment.

Bron is the only non-PG in the top 7 all-time assists leaders.

Of all the crazy record breaking accomplishments, perhaps nothing will signify LeBron’s greatness more than topping MJ and Kareem for all-time points while distributing more dimes than Magic.

Nobody will ever come close to to being the triple threat that LeBron has been throughout his career.

-->

At the #9 slot.

Just about 760 points away from the most historic and previously thought to be untouchable record in the game: all time scoring king.

Surpassing Jordan in yet another glittery statistical category.

LeBron James: Just had his 7th straight game with 30+ points in year 20.

It's also the longest active 30+ or more point streak this season of any player. Bron still being elite in year 20 is ridiculous longevity. Never been done; likely will never been seen again.

..not sure if anyone cares about such a bizarre record, but it counts lol.

*Shout out to Drew Gooden.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35380290/remembering-last-lebron-scored-fewer-10-points-regular-season-16-years-ago


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

I feel like it was in the finals.

EDIT: Yep. In game 4 - he went for 8 points (3/11 shooting), 9 boards, and 7 dimes. Ben Simmons numbers!

*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

>*Shout out to Drew Gooden.
>
>https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/35380290/remembering-last-lebron-scored-fewer-10-points-regular-season-16-years-ago

Grade A material right there. Thanks for sharing.


-->

in assists, and he does it on a night where he becomes the only player in NBA history to record a triple-double in year 20 - at MSG.

-->

.

when Bron quickly gave the ball to Dennis because he didn't want a dip to his %.


This dude cares more about stats than has been properly addressed.


Now, I have to get something out of the way. I think Lebron is an amazing player (top 6-10) and honestly? a better human. I like Lebron. A lot. A lot more than I like his fans.

I also think breaking Kareem's record is an insane accomplishment.

But lets be real for a second...

This dude loves his stats. He loves to compare shooting %, loves to get assists, etc.


There is a reason he has resisted playing off ball.


When you think about it, had Bron bought in to a system that wasn't so Bron-heavy (for instance, with Spo) he'd have at least a few more chips.


But he likes it his way. He likes the ball in his hand. He likes filling up the stat sheet. Etc.


This isn't unique in the league, but he's often praised as unselfish and...I dunno fam.

There's a reason he has burned through coaches more than any all-time great that comes to mind.


The consistent comparison is MJ. He fully bought into Phil's system to the point of ultimately retiring when he couldn't play for him anymore.

He did it to win.

He could have won a couple chips then bounced to NY or wherever to go back to putting up 37-8-8 but winning was more important.

I don't think Lebron buys into Phil's system in the early 90's. I think Phil doesn't even get hired with Bron there.

But use any all-timer you want. Kareem. Russel. Magic. Duncan. A lot of these dudes with more chips than Bron have something in common...they changed their game for the better of the team. They sacrificed stats, etc.

Every team dude has jumped to has been Bron-ball. Multiple coaches. Bend or get the fuck out. Only exception to the last is Miami, and he bounced from a winning team. And Spo is still doing a very good job coaching.


I think Bron gets a little too much credit for being "unselfish" because dude gets assists, etc.


I know a few dudes on here will be aggy/emotional about it, but Bron's inability to fully buy into a system and be a team-player has held him back.

And doing shit like throwing to Dennis late in the half to preserve his % is a knock on his legacy imo...

https://goo.gl/aYCcFj

you see a lot of guys passing up the end of the quarter/half heave to preserve their fg/3pt %

>Now, I have to get something out of the way. I think Lebron
>is an amazing player (top 6-10)

...right today?



>The consistent comparison is MJ. He fully bought into Phil's
>system to the point of ultimately retiring when he couldn't
>play for him anymore.
>
>He did it to win.

Jorn was resistant to Phil and the triangle at first. Feel even had to convince MJ that he would still be able to lead the league in scoring to get him to buy into his system.


>He could have won a couple chips then bounced to NY or
>wherever to go back to putting up 37-8-8 but winning was more
>important.

Jorn was still winning scoring titles every year while they were winning chips. There was no need for him to bounce somewhere else to put up numbers.


>I don't think Lebron buys into Phil's system in the early
>90's. I think Phil doesn't even get hired with Bron there.

Bron would've bought into it easier than MJ did. And the NBA in the 90's didn't operate like it does today, he wouldn't have been able to pull his LeGM act the way he does now.



>I think Bron gets a little too much credit for being
>"unselfish" because dude gets assists, etc.

this much is true.


>I know a few dudes on here will be aggy/emotional about it,
>but Bron's inability to fully buy into a system and be a
>team-player has held him back.

held him back from what?


>And doing shit like throwing to Dennis late in the half to
>preserve his % is a knock on his legacy imo...

you can just say you don't like Bron. It's ok.

what up Bomb?

38,388 and counting

while averaging 30.2 for the season.
AT AGE 38
to get the all time scoring title
INCREDIBLE

Means a hell of a lot coming from these brothers:

https://youtu.be/soWp8ODlErM

The clutch bucket helped James extend his lead for the most game-tying or game-winning baskets (10) with under 10 seconds remaining in a playoff game.

-->

At 38, he became the oldest player in N.B.A. history to have 20 points and 20 rebounds in a game, beating a mark set by Wilt Chamberlain in 1973.

-->

>At 38, he became the oldest player in N.B.A. history to have
>20 points and 20 rebounds in a game, beating a mark set by
>Wilt Chamberlain in 1973.
>
>-->

and a game tying drive and lay-up to force OT over the DPOY?

A documentary on dude's career wouldn't even seem real.
Again:
it's absolutely reprehensible how sports talk media has ruined the appreciation of dude.

>and a game tying drive and lay-up to force OT over the DPOY?
>
>A documentary on dude's career wouldn't even seem real.

Even Barkley (who has shorted LeBron at every turn) admitted that Bron's story is the greatest sports story of all time. The career arc is insane.

>Again:
>it's absolutely reprehensible how sports talk media has ruined
>the appreciation of dude.

Criminal. Dude is drawing high-risk charges, blocking shots, hitting game winners, grabbing 20 rebounds in year 20 in the playoff pressure cooker. Even Stephen A. today was questioning his MJ take - you could tell he was reeling mentally in real time lol.


-->

...a bloated ball hogging chucker who held back the development of younger players


>>and a game tying drive and lay-up to force OT over the
>DPOY?
>>
>>A documentary on dude's career wouldn't even seem real.
>
>Even Barkley (who has shorted LeBron at every turn) admitted
>that Bron's story is the greatest sports story of all time.
>The career arc is insane.
>
>>Again:
>>it's absolutely reprehensible how sports talk media has
>ruined
>>the appreciation of dude.
>
>Criminal. Dude is drawing high-risk charges, blocking shots,
>hitting game winners, grabbing 20 rebounds in year 20 in the
>playoff pressure cooker. Even Stephen A. today was
>questioning his MJ take - you could tell he was reeling
>mentally in real time lol.
>
>
>-->

He's CLEARLY not at 100%, and gassed in a way we've never seen him before.
Still finding ways to contribute without chucking up bad shots.

and he did it with a sky-hook!

https://youtube.com/shorts/kLdkttgwENo?feature=share

Can't believe that's not being talked about more today.

James came into the game with 2,356 career Playoff two-point field goals, which was tied with Hall of Famer Kareem Abdul-Jabbar for the most all-time.

After game 4, James now sits at 2364 2-point field goals in the NBA Playoffs.

Dumbfounding. Even Stephen A. today called LeBron "1A" all-time lol.
-->

..it was an incredible moment.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*


..and miles to go before i sleep...

Now, the most all-time.

Tonight he also etched his 18th 30+ point game in a close-out playoff game, closing in on yet another record (MJ is first with 19).

Another stat illuminating the anomaly of LeBron:

Steph, Klay & Dray were 19-0 in the Western Conference playoffs, until they faced LeBron tonight in the West for the first time.

They are also 23-2 in a playoff series when all three are healthy. Only 2 losses? To LeBron James. In fact, LeBron has now won 8 of his last 10 games against Steph/Klay/Dray in the post-season when they face him without KD.

-->

He can’t shoot. As he gets older he gets worse. He lost his step.

As Jordan got older, he developed an unstoppable shot and became
even more deadly

You take away his driving ability because he is trash

at age 38 than Jordan did at the same age.

Better scorer, better rebounder, better passer, better defender. More efficient shooter.

"But LeBron missed fumbled a dunk!" is basically your argument?

Cool.



-->

The greatest old player ever


LOL

GOPOAT

- and his 31 first-half points in an elimination game (Game 4, Denver) is the most by any player in the last 25 postseasons.

Not just setting "oldest ever to do it" records - but actually smashing some all-time prime records at the same time.

His performances in Game 6 closeout v. GS and elimination game against Denver were vintage, elite performances. Basically gave you a top-tier two-way triple double (27/10/10) in the WCF, guarded Jokic well and ramped up his defense overall, playing passing lanes and blocking shots.

And did all this while possibly needing surgery to deal with his hampered foot. Crazy after all this mileage, he still looks like he's got premium grade left in the tank in year *21*.

-->

I know things like context, nuance, and facts are hard for you to accept.

But if you just, you know, turn off the schtick for once, maybe you can learn.

If Jokic got swept and had a torn tendon in his foot, that’s all you would talk about and call it an L for the Lakers.

The best form of ability is availability. You can’t have it both ways, and
his losing last year, and the year before that?

No excuses.

Turn off the schtick?

You’re the Lebron follower and avid campaigner with blinders on.. I don’t
know any schtick that is bigger than that.

He lost, again. More Ls than Ws. That’s not a GOAT. Sorry.

Cause he looked done done that series...glad it just simply wasnt old age