The fall season is right here and we have some big cards coming up starting with All Out on September 5th. In NJPW we have the G1 Climax Tournament that's starting later than usual this year and is always a banger. WWE we have Survivor Series which I'm sure will be another mix between Raw, Smackdown, and NXT. Even though Wrestle Kingdom is right after the new year (January 4th) that always feels like an end of the year show.

Any predictions?

Who's the best performer so far this year?
Best storyline in wrestleing?
Anyone due for a title shot?

Trying to build a watch along group for most shows. We already do AEW every Wednesday and all the PPVS. As always the link is https://s.kast.live/g/8lf7lrmxzl and we'll be kicking off with the All Out PPV this weekend

AEW World Championship: Jon Moxley (c) vs. MJF
Moxley. MJF left him bloody on Wednesday, so that means it's Moxley. It'll be MJF's time eventually; he's the best dickhead heel that I've seen in years, but he's not quite ready yet.


AEW World Tag Team Championship: Kenny Omega & Adam Page (c) vs. FTR
FTR. Kinda has to be after the build-up. Kenny and Page split up afterwards, possibly with Omega going full heel.

AEW Women's World Championship: Hikaru Shida (c) vs. Thunder Rosa
Shida. This is Rosa's second match with AEW; no way she leaves with the belt.

Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy (Mimosa Mayhem match)
Jericho. Pins Orange Cassidy, but Cassidy dumps him in the mimosa pool afterwards.

21-man Casino Battle Royal for an AEW championship opportunity
Also kinda has to be Lance Archer, especially since they're not really building anyone else up. The already gave Kage his shot. The two of them probably feud for a little post-PPV before Archer fights Moxley.

The Dark Order vs. Matt Cardona, Scorpio Sky & The Natural Nightmares
Dark Order. Gotta keep building them as monsters until Cody comes back from filming on Arrow.

Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (Broken Rules match)
Hardy. Sammy won the tables match, Matt wins the blow-off.

The Young Bucks vs. Jurassic Express
Young Bucks. Probably go full heel aferwards.

Britt Baker vs. Big Swole (Tooth and Nail match)
Big Swole. This is one match I have very little interest in.

>Moxley. It'll be MJF's time eventually; he's the best dickhead
>heel that I've seen in years, but he's not quite ready yet.
>

agreed. Plenty of time to get MJF there. I don't think we've seen the full extent of his heelness yet. I think Mox drops it at the next ppv though.


>FTR. Kinda has to be after the build-up. Kenny and Page split
>up afterwards, possibly with Omega going full heel.

Definitely. The split has been teased long enough and FTR is the right team to run with.

>Shida. This is Rosa's second match with AEW; no way she leaves
>with the belt.

Gotta be Shida, though I love Thunder Rosa and hope this is the beginning of a great relationship between NWA and AEW. Aldis would fit right in with the top players in the Men's division.


>Jericho. Pins Orange Cassidy, but Cassidy dumps him in the
>mimosa pool afterwards.

Probably, but I'll be rooting for Orange.


>Also kinda has to be Lance Archer, especially since they're
>not really building anyone else up. The already gave Kage his
>shot. The two of them probably feud for a little post-PPV
>before Archer fights Moxley.

God, the segment for this was a mess. I think we'll see a small surprise here and my boy Pentagon will take it.


>Dark Order. Gotta keep building them as monsters until Cody
>comes back from filming on Arrow.
>
>Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (Broken Rules match)
>Hardy. Sammy won the tables match, Matt wins the blow-off.
>
>The Young Bucks vs. Jurassic Express
>Young Bucks. Probably go full heel aferwards.

Agree on all these

>
>Britt Baker vs. Big Swole (Tooth and Nail match)
>Big Swole. This is one match I have very little interest in.

My pick is Britt cause I think she's the strongest personality in the division and she should be the one to take the title off of Shida. Would've been interested in this a couple months ago but it's been drawn out too much due to Britt's injury. They honestly should've had her shit on people w/o actually feuding with anyone until she was nearly ready to come back.

>agreed. Plenty of time to get MJF there. I don't think we've
>seen the full extent of his heelness yet. I think Mox drops it
>at the next ppv though.

I'm not sure who he'd drop it to tho. It'd be pointless to put the title on someone like Lance Archer. Maybe Rhodes if he comes back. There's been rumors of them re-forming the Horsemen with FTR, Hangman, and Rhodes, so I can see it. Even if I don't like putting the belt on the guy in charge. Maybe Omega. I'd like to see Page eventually get it at some point.


>Definitely. The split has been teased long enough and FTR is
>the right team to run with.


>Gotta be Shida, though I love Thunder Rosa and hope this is
>the beginning of a great relationship between NWA and AEW.
>Aldis would fit right in with the top players in the Men's
>division.

I definitely hope this isn't a one-off with Rosa and she sticks around. And brings in Aldis.


>Probably, but I'll be rooting for Orange.

Me too. Can't help but liking the dude. But I doubt Jericho is losing twice to him at this point.


>God, the segment for this was a mess. I think we'll see a
>small surprise here and my boy Pentagon will take it.

Yeah, Jake keeps talking over Tazz. It seems like they're setting up the eventual feud between Archer and Kage, but Jake needs to let Tazz do his talking and vice versa.

I'd certainly like a surprise, and the new Eddie Kingston/Butcher and Blade/Lucha Bros. stable are the only other people that they've given any attention to this thing. Personally, I'd hope that of them Eddie Kingston wins, but that's mostly because I love the Lucha Bros. as team, and I want them in the Tag Title picture.

>My pick is Britt cause I think she's the strongest personality
>in the division and she should be the one to take the title
>off of Shida. Would've been interested in this a couple months
>ago but it's been drawn out too much due to Britt's injury.
>They honestly should've had her shit on people w/o actually
>feuding with anyone until she was nearly ready to come back.

I was operating on the "person who stomps out right before the PPV usually wins" principle, but I see that arguement.

I like him a lot better than Page.

Haven’t watched since the PPV in May though so I have no idea what they’ve been doing with him.

Now that summer is winding down, I gotta start watching again.

>I like him a lot better than Page.
>
>Haven’t watched since the PPV in May though so I have no
>idea what they’ve been doing with him.

He had a title shot against Moxley. But that was mostly in the midst of his feud with Ricky Starks, which won't be resolved during the PPV.

And I watched pretty much every week until late May. Got rid of my TV services when there was no sports on and summer was hitting and got out of the loop.

To be fair to Page, I gotta see him more on his own. To this point I like him, but I don’t love him.

I bought the last few PPVs. On the fence with this one. No Darby, and no TNT title defense are strikes against it. Though I really like the title matchup and my other favorites Jericho and Britt Baker are on there.

He’s in the 21-Man Battle Royale for a title shot. And his feud with Sparks has kept him on TV and should figure prominently in the match. So it’s not like they’re sweeping him aside. I really doubt he wins the match tho.

>I'd certainly like a surprise, and the new Eddie
>Kingston/Butcher and Blade/Lucha Bros. stable are the only
>other people that they've given any attention to this thing.
>Personally, I'd hope that of them Eddie Kingston wins, but
>that's mostly because I love the Lucha Bros. as team, and I
>want them in the Tag Title picture.

Yeah, Kingston would be fantastic.

>AEW World Championship: Jon Moxley (c) vs. MJF
>Moxley. MJF left him bloody on Wednesday, so that means it's
>Moxley. It'll be MJF's time eventually; he's the best dickhead
>heel that I've seen in years, but he's not quite ready yet.

I think MJF is gonna win it. A talkin ass heel with a cooler is a heat magnet. Page takes it off of him at Revolution in Feb.

>AEW World Tag Team Championship: Kenny Omega & Adam Page (c)
>vs. FTR
>FTR. Kinda has to be after the build-up. Kenny and Page split
>up afterwards, possibly with Omega going full heel.

they fucked this up so bad. unless they are doing a SWERVE BRO wherein Page turns on Omega, its fucking stupid. they will have turned Hangman into a whiny pussy that sabotaged his stablemates because he was scared of them. Page+Spears+FTR is the only satisfying way out of the corner they painted themselves into

>AEW Women's World Championship: Hikaru Shida (c) vs. Thunder
>Rosa
>Shida. This is Rosa's second match with AEW; no way she leaves
>with the belt.

Rosa for the win, and ahe drops it before NWA resumes

>Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy (Mimosa Mayhem match)
>Jericho. Pins Orange Cassidy, but Cassidy dumps him in the
>mimosa pool afterwards.

ive tried and failed to care less about this.

>21-man Casino Battle Royal for an AEW championship
>opportunity
>Also kinda has to be Lance Archer, especially since they're
>not really building anyone else up. The already gave Kage his
>shot. The two of them probably feud for a little post-PPV
>before Archer fights Moxley.

idk who is even in it. Ricky Starks is my favorite wrestler right now so i hope he wins.

>The Dark Order vs. Matt Cardona, Scorpio Sky & The Natural
>Nightmares
>Dark Order. Gotta keep building them as monsters until Cody
>comes back from filming on Arrow.

why is scorpio sky in this? why isnt it Dustin vs Brodie? i hate this whole fucking angle.

>Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (Broken Rules match)
>Hardy. Sammy won the tables match, Matt wins the blow-off.

Again...wtf. This should have BEEN the tables match, but they hot-shotted it and now its a gimmick.

>The Young Bucks vs. Jurassic Express
>Young Bucks. Probably go full heel aferwards.



>Britt Baker vs. Big Swole (Tooth and Nail match)
>Big Swole. This is one match I have very little interest in.

This was the thing i had the most interest until the revelation that its a cinematic match. Imo Baker-Swole is the best program theyve had since the last PPV. But they couldnt just have a fucking match, so here we are.

>>Chris Jericho vs. Orange Cassidy (Mimosa Mayhem match)
>>Jericho. Pins Orange Cassidy, but Cassidy dumps him in the
>>mimosa pool afterwards.
>
>ive tried and failed to care less about this.

Orange Cassidy, Best Friends and Marko Stunt are the only people who get regular TV time that I really wouldn't mind going away for(ever) a while. The in-ring usage rate of Best Friends is absurd relative to their talent.

I would add Janela to that list but mercifully he isn't featured much.

>>Britt Baker vs. Big Swole (Tooth and Nail match)
>>Big Swole. This is one match I have very little interest in.
>
>This was the thing i had the most interest until the revelation that >its a cinematic match. Imo Baker-Swole is the best program theyve had >since the last PPV. But they couldnt just have a fucking match, so here >we are.

I believe the theory is that Britt still isn't well enough for a full in-ring return so they're using the cinematic format as a cover. They probably feel like they've dragged it out long enough and want them to feature on a PPV.

>Orange Cassidy, Best Friends and Marko Stunt are the only
>people who get regular TV time that I really wouldn't mind
>going away for(ever) a while. The in-ring usage rate of Best
>Friends is absurd relative to their talent.

the only thing any of them have done to entertain me was when Chuck Taylor said "punched my friend in the dick" on TV. thats the sum total of their positive contributions to my viewing.

>I would add Janela to that list but mercifully he isn't
>featured much.

ya know, i was kinda into the Janela-Sonny tag team....until they did Nakazawa's shit on Dark. everything is so schizophrenic, waffling between wrestling and people acting like they are in a terrible movie *about* wrestling

>I believe the theory is that Britt still isn't well enough for
>a full in-ring return so they're using the cinematic format as
>a cover. They probably feel like they've dragged it out long
>enough and want them to feature on a PPV.

which in and of itself is a travesty because she was injured with a reckless botch, and she's one of their best tv characters

>
>Orange Cassidy, Best Friends and Marko Stunt are the only
>people who get regular TV time that I really wouldn't mind
>going away for(ever) a while. The in-ring usage rate of Best
>Friends is absurd relative to their talent.

Best Friends are fun on the indies, but I now realize they don’t belong on TV. Actually keep Trent as a singles guy even if the personality ain’t all there. I’m not usually a stickler for this but... Chuck’s body shape is just weird. Do some cardio dawg.

I used to defend Marko a bit, but now he annoys the fuck out of me. It doesn’t help that JR insists on calling him “Little Marko” lol.

Orange is great though, and while this feud has veered into comedy a little more than it should (whatever, I’m still laughing at how Jericho’s jacket got more orange every week), I still think this has been a great way to introduce him as a legitimate threat. Months ago I said I wanted to see how they took the character to the next level... this is what I was talking about. We’re finding out what makes him tick.

i would assume getting the shit kicked out of one's self over and over again would make anyone "tic" if they survived it

i dont care if he can do some moves. i want a reason to care about someone.

That was their highest mark of the night. I dunno man, seems like people are really into Orange Cassidy.

and not the 5x WWE champ, 3x Billboard charting, NYT Best Selling, VH1 regular, pop culture icon that is Chris Jericho

I've only enjoyed one match of his and that was the one with PAC for obvious reasons. His matches are all very same-y and not in a good way for me. He's overexposed for me and Jericho is doing all of the heavy lifting in this feud.

Trent(?) should be a mid-carder who puts on good matches on Dynamite in mostly losing efforts when they're building someone else. They can use Dark and/or the second show when it starts to give him some singles wins and keep him relevant.

I found out that Marko has a brother two weeks ago and now I'm terrified that there will be a Stunt tag team in AEW at some point. Marko has decreased my enjoyment of Jurassic Express almost to nothing and in my opinion he's really holding them back.

>I found out that Marko has a brother two weeks ago and now I'm
>terrified that there will be a Stunt tag team in AEW at some
>point. Marko has decreased my enjoyment of Jurassic Express
>almost to nothing and in my opinion he's really holding them
>back.

Luchasuarus is fine as a wrestler but I don’t give a shit about him. Also he should never talk. Marko is a huge distraction. Jungleboy is damn good and I’d love to see him get a big push, maybe win the TNT title eventually.

the more i see, the less i want to see

>I think MJF is gonna win it. A talkin ass heel with a cooler
>is a heat magnet. Page takes it off of him at Revolution in
>Feb.

I'd actually prefer this scenario. Especially with Page eventually winning it down the road. Have Moxley lose the title due to MJF goading him into using the Paradigm Shift and destroying him in the process, then turn MJF into a version of Honky Tonk Man as IC champion and Jericho as Crusierweight champ on overdrive. Keep the "campaign" going and turn him into the Drumf of AEW.

However, I'm still going with aforementioned "guy who gets beaten bloody right before the PPV goes over" principle. Along with the likelihood that lots of other heels are going this PPV.


>they fucked this up so bad. unless they are doing a SWERVE BRO
>wherein Page turns on Omega, its fucking stupid. they will
>have turned Hangman into a whiny pussy that sabotaged his
>stablemates because he was scared of them. Page+Spears+FTR is
>the only satisfying way out of the corner they painted
>themselves into

I think that they could do an angle where this is his rock-bottom and he builds himself back up from there, eventually into the main event picture.



>idk who is even in it. Ricky Starks is my favorite wrestler
>right now so i hope he wins.

I like Starks, but they still haven't resolved him vs. Darby Allin (I hope Starks goes over there)


>why is scorpio sky in this? why isnt it Dustin vs Brodie? i
>hate this whole fucking angle.

WIth Scorpio, I guess they're paying off the "respectful" match between him and Cody a few weeks ago. As for Dustin, he's 51 and I don't think anyone would believe him even having a semi-legit shot at Brodie. it'd be more of a match on Dynamite.


>Again...wtf. This should have BEEN the tables match, but they
>hot-shotted it and now its a gimmick.

I agree. Guevara should have won another type of match, and the table match is the blow-off.

they dont tell us why stuff happens, and instead make it all Schiavone's responsibility to hypothesize why people are doing the things they are doing. thats the main reason i think he's been so pivotal to the shows. the booking knows the "things" to do, but doesnt understand how to convey realistic motivation.

>Jericho as Crusierweight
>champ on overdrive.

lmao this is my sister's all time favorite angle. CONSPIRACY VICTIM!

>Along
>with the likelihood that lots of other heels are going this
>PPV.

They have a babyface problem thats starting to affect the shows imo. Id like to see Kazarian get a lil push. His work is absolutely impeccable, and his whole thing exudes believability to me. If they give people a reason to get behind him, that could be a big help. I would have no problem whatsoever with him taking the TNT Title off Bruised-ego Brodie at some point.

>I think that they could do an angle where this is his
>rock-bottom and he builds himself back up from there,
>eventually into the main event picture.

they could, but i dont know why they needed to break him down when they had lightning in a bottle with COWBOY SHIT.

>>idk who is even in it. Ricky Starks is my favorite wrestler
>>right now so i hope he wins.

>I like Starks, but they still haven't resolved him vs. Darby
>Allin (I hope Starks goes over there)

which is also a weird piece of booking. they havent figured out how to use non-finishes on TV, so instead of heat we'll get a 2 or 3 minute spot in a clusterfuck for their first official competitive interaction. that "I dont need to paint my face" promo literally lifted me out of my seat with chills, and imo was the single best piece of mic work in all of AEW this far. we deserve better.

>WIth Scorpio, I guess they're paying off the "respectful"
>match between him and Cody a few weeks ago.

i assumed thats what it was but why wasnt he given the chance to tell us why he came out to help? a callback to a match that wasnt that great only makes me think of the match that wasnt that great, and I think Sky deserves better.

>As for Dustin,
>he's 51 and I don't think anyone would believe him even having
>a semi-legit shot at Brodie. it'd be more of a match on
>Dynamite.

Maybe, but thats heat. He's overmatched physically, too old, but crafty and motivated to avenge his little brother. Let him get his ass kicked...hell, its probably better that way. If someone did that to your little brother, would you care that hes probably gonna beat your ass too? I wouldnt, and nobody else would either. Tell the damn story!

>I agree. Guevara should have won another type of match, and
>the table match is the blow-off.

The tables match as it went down, on PPV, would have served as an effective passing of the torch, and done SO much for Sammy. Now im afraid they're gonna make him look stupid, and i don't think he's quite there yet to be able to talk his heat back up Wednesday.

>AEW World Championship: Jon Moxley (c) vs. MJF

I think Moxley retains and then loses to Omega with the next two new champions being Hangman and then MJF.

much less as the champion. dude's last singles match was a grueling 20 minute battle with...

*checks notes*

Dark Order #5

Dude is one of the best wrestlers in the world. People have been wanting him as champ before AEW had their own show.

If you get The Cleaner Kenny as your champ people are going to be really into it.

for some people, thats good. ive never seen an invisible man, invisible hand grenade, or pause button. So all that indie shit never happened to me. Janela, Chuck Taylor, OC, and so many others get a free pass for all of it.

for others, like Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks, thats not so good. they cant do a believable promo, and can barely deliver a produced vignette. i cant handle Matt Jackson hulking up without wishing Rick Steiner would do a shoot run in. Omega has actually gotten better in a tag team for me. For a while his shit had gotten more serious, and more interesting. But thats kinda fallen by the wayside again, and i dont think hes an amazing worker. I think hes a good athlete who can do the stuff, but why am i supposed to care? I dont want to be sports-entertained by theatre kids; I want to be entertained by sports contested by athletes.

This turned into kind of a rant, but they bug me. If Omega calms his tics down there may be hope. But the Bucks...nah. I dont understand how they ever got over anywhere.

Dark Order wins, but Colt Cabana leaves. Or, more likely, they turn against him. Seems like they're setting this up after tonight's episode of Dark. They try to make him fight dirty/injury someone on the Rhodes crew and he refuses. Then they can move him into a feud with Lee.

>Who's the best performer so far this year?

I've been impressed with Drew's run as a babyface champ. Didn't think it would've worked as well as it has, but I can't say he's been the BEST so far this year. It's between Bayley and Orton for me.

>Best storyline in wrestling?

Bayley and Banks carried both main roster brands for months. They're pacing their story just right. I'm gonna say this one for me so far, but I'm putting a placeholder for how they do Reigns as a heel


>Anyone due for a title shot?

I'd like to see Reigns v. Big E at 'Mania. Already had a fantasy booking angle in my head when Reigns won and its no secret WWE is big on E right now.

I also want to see Cassidy with the TNT title, cause I think that is his ceiling. He's great all around, but I just don't see AEW going that route. If he does? Cool, but I think him with the TNT title would be great.

>
>Any predictions?

I included my All Out predictions under MrHood since I agreed with most of his. I'm trying to predict how New Japan plays out this year and I'm at a loss. Had the year played out normally I'd say it's Kota's time to climb the mountain, but the Naito double title run just got a restart and I doubt they take the belts off him in January.

So who wins the G1 to challenge Naito and lose? I think they keep Okada out of the main event scene for now and save Ibushi for next year. The Evil experiment is over. I would love to see a dark horse like SANADA or Ishii challenging but it seems unlikely. My pick is Jay White. The dude can go and has genuine heel heat. He'll get cheap wins to rack up points and be rested for the finals. I wonder if they'll even have time for someone to challenge for that spot ahead of WK.

>
>Who's the best performer so far this year?

Asuka. There are a handful of people who have shined during the COVID era, but she's turned chicken shit into chicken soup.

>Best storyline in wrestleing?

The Elite breakup

>Anyone due for a title shot?

I'd like to see Big E get his shot soon. Probably one more feud before he gets in the title picture though.

The aforementioned Ishii would put on a phenomenal title match with Naito.

My pick for AEW is always Pentagon. I want him to be champion forever in every company.

>Who's the best performer so far this year?

Easily Cody. Second, Tony Schiavone. Both shows are wayyyyyy better with him playing point guard instead of Excali- "Chris" Bur-man

>Best storyline in wrestleing?

whats tully scheming on?

>Anyone due for a title shot?

I hate to say this, but....no. Scorpio Sky would have been my answer but Cody had more trouble with Warhorse, so...

> https://s.kast.live/g/8lf7lrmxzl

hell yeah!

>Second, Tony Schiavone. Both shows are wayyyyyy
>better with him playing point guard instead of Excali- "Chris"
>Bur-man

Agree. I really like him and Tazz working together.

>whats tully scheming on?>

I figure they gotta pull the trigger and the new Horsemen soon. Only thing is that I hope Spears isn't involved. He's fucking dry as toast, and the loaded glove isn't helping.

probably a little nostalgia for the black glove gimmick, which i understood and appreciated as soon as Tully opened the box. it suits him, as does the affiliation with Tully.

ive always hated that piece of shit Blanchard since i was 4 years old, so thats working for him

>
>>whats tully scheming on?>
>
>I figure they gotta pull the trigger and the new Horsemen
>soon. Only thing is that I hope Spears isn't involved. He's
>fucking dry as toast, and the loaded glove isn't helping.
>

He was hot for a second with the Cody feud but I haven’t given a fuck about him since.

I wouldn't be mad at him being involved, but I wouldn't be mad if they found someone else either.

Best case for him is they use him for a bit and he's the first member they eventually turn on.

>I wouldn't be mad at him being involved, but I wouldn't be
>mad if they found someone else either.
>
>Best case for him is they use him for a bit and he's the first
>member they eventually turn on.

Personality-wise I don’t see him fitting with any of the guys mentioned, but if this is how it plays out that would make sense.

That was... a really sick botched spot. It was a bad look to keep the match going. Even if it was just a brief build to that final spot. Hardy looked completely dead on his feet.

I think if not for the stipulation that Hardly would leave if he lost the match they would have stopped it as soon as that spot happened.

I think Matt kept trying to push to continue but after a head injury like that it shouldn't have been up to him. Ref Aubrey tried to stop it but I think she was forced to keep it going. Hope Matt is ok. Can't be doing spots like that.

Evan Bourne also almost died.

Feel bad for him with the Shockmaster debut.

that actually fucked Hardy up??? Like the table was way too close and Hardy obviously hit his head on the concrete, but then they kept the camera on the ref’s X, which is suspect because you’re supposed to cut away.

Idk, either way it was a terrible look. WWE did a fake X a few years back so there is a precedent, but I don’t think it’sa thing that should ever be done. The dumb explanation after the fact did nothing to make it look okay. Worst part of the night.

Like you said, during the last period I was really into wrestling, refs were doing fake Xs and announcers were doing the soto voce when the guy (or girl) wasn't really injured. While watching it, my homie even said, "Oh, they're going to have him transform into 'Broken Matt' and then he'll stomp Guevara.'"

But some it become apparent that he'd knocked his brain loose, especially as he tried to keep fighting. And everything that happened on the way to the scaffolding and climbing up it just looked awful.

The 2nd half was really good but I was getting super tired cause of how long the first half was. They also need to figure out a way to mic the minimal crowd cause it was dead. Also did they stop moving the wrestlers sitting front row? How did it sound emptier than a few weeks ago?

Things I enjoyed:

Mox/MJF
Jericho/Cassidy
Bucks/Jurassic Express
Dark Order vs. Hodge Podge crew (big surprise, did not expect to like it, coulda been moved to Dynamite for time though)
Both preshow matches

Middling:

Tag Title (great match that was simply way too long)
Battle Royale (it was a mess and the Sudan bitch was brutal, but I mostly enjoyed it)
Shida/Rosa (good match that had no heat since it wasn’t a feud)

Could’ve done without:

Swole/Baker
Hardy/Sammy (let’s forget this ever happened)

The bad: Britt vs. Swole should have stayed on the pre-show. Guevara vs. Hardy should have been ended or delayed, as Hardy probably couldn't have told you his own name after that bump. That match will probably never get mentioned again.

The okay:

The battle royale was messy as fuck and it was always clear Archer was going to win, but it had some good spots. It lets them continue Sparks vs. Allin, Kage vs. Archer for a little while, LAX vs. Best Friends (which I actually like), and even Hager vs. Sonny Kiss. They're going to have to establish Sydal as a bad-ass again after he falls in his fucking head the first time out.

Orange Cassidy vs. Jericho was slow, but I certainly smiled like shit when Cassidy won. Jericho is so fricking over that him losing the blow-off isn't going to hurt him.

And, yeah, the Dark Order vs. Dustin and crew was probably a Dynamite match, but Dustin winning was a feel good moment, and it further advances Cabana/Lee storyline. I'm okay if they milk for a while longer, where they keep trying to corrupt Colt, until he snaps.


The good: Young Guns vs. Jurassic Express, he women's title match, FTR winning, and Moxley vs. MJF were all money. Young Guns going heel again works, Page didn't end up looking weak, and MJF stays over even with the loss, as he'll have more shit to gripe about on Wednesday.

So, for me, thumbs solidly up.

Sudan bitch = Sydal botch

That was a nice surprise when he came out during the whole Kip marriage angle. Interested in what they have in store for him.

Also, the A and B blocks have been announced for the G1 this year. As always I have no idea who is taking this thing.

>That was a nice surprise when he came out during the whole
>Kip marriage angle. Interested in what they have in store for
>him.

I don't see any reason for him to pal around with Kip Sabian unless Kip is immediately gonna say some shit that offends Miro and he throws him in the accolade. And what tf was the bit with 2 people thinking they were his best man? God that did not land.

Also pretty sick of the "this is a vague reference to why I hated WWE" even if it was just a couple lines. Would've been more tolerable if the whole thing was put together better. His appeal is that he's funny AND he's a badass. We didn't see either of those things.

>
>Also, the A and B blocks have been announced for the G1 this
>year. As always I have no idea who is taking this thing.

Still got Jay White this year, but it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. No more showcase tags before the tournament matches. I rarely watch those anyway so it's no loss for me.

Opening match between FTR and Jurassic Express was thoroughly enjoyable. Made Jungle Boy look even better than usual.

Page vs. Kazarian was also really good as well. Love how they're still slow-playing this angle.

MJF winning in 10 seconds then getting off another awesome promo worked. I wonder if they're really going to bring in a new "stable" or use this as a reason to talk shit about every faction in the company.

Eddie Kingston and crew's beatdown was fun. And Eddie talking shit while it was going on is hilarious. I want more of these cats.

Jericho/Hager vs. Private Party and Thunder Rose vs. Ivelese weren't earth shattering but they had perfectly good action, especially the former.

I can get behind what's largely a Hoss Fight for the six-man tag next week. And I can really get behind the beginning of this Hobbs semi-push (Yay Area!)

And Best Friends vs. Santana & Ortiz was phenomenal. I know some of y'all don't dig Best Friends, but I was all in on this. And Santana & Ortiz rocking the Dead Presidents face paint was the hardest shit ever. Just a fucking brutal match. And the end, from popping the trunk to Trent's Mom picking them up in the mini-van and flipping them off as they rode off into the sunset was perfect.

Only weak link is the Miro/Rusev stuff.

Looks like they're doing two broadcasts next week. Probably testing it out to see if it can work in the future.

Kota Ibushi wins for the second year in a row and will go on to Wrestle Kingdom to face Naito.

Great match between Ibushi and SANADA. I figured Kota would take this but NJPW always has a way of making me feel like anyone could win this match. At one point I think they were going to go ahead with SANADA and shock the world. Awesome show and another great G1 this year.

>Kota Ibushi wins for the second year in a row and will go on
>to Wrestle Kingdom to face Naito.
>
>Great match between Ibushi and SANADA. I figured Kota would
>take this but NJPW always has a way of making me feel like
>anyone could win this match. At one point I think they were
>going to go ahead with SANADA and shock the world. Awesome
>show and another great G1 this year.

first wrestler to kick out of the kamigoye, so they made SANADA look like a million bucks. his time will come.

I gotta rewatch today cause I was watching live and dozing off.

Don’t love Sonny getting zero offense in, but I like the story they’re telling with Omega and Page and their inevitable meeting

And I’m pretty sure that they’re setting up Omega winning the match at Full Gear and eventually the title, so they might as well as start his monster push.

Overall, I thought it was a really good episode overall. I’m hoping for a long slow build with Jericho and MJF.

>And I’m pretty sure that they’re setting up Omega winning
>the match at Full Gear and eventually the title, so they might
>as well as start his monster push.
>
>Overall, I thought it was a really good episode overall. I’m
>hoping for a long slow build with Jericho and MJF.

same. if they don't rush this shit we're in for months of amazing segments.

I understand Sonny because they wanted to make Kenny seem like a prick after the win. I tell you what though I would like to see Kenny not take the match serious and Penta really bring it to him and Kenny has to resort to cheating a bit to get the win. I think it would fit with his return to being The Cleaner.

It was probably the best match on Dynamite since the parking lot brawl. Penta and Omega went pretty crazy, and it advanced the "Omega going heel" storyline. I really hope that they don't break up the Lucha Bros. as well. But that seems to be the long game.


>>Overall, I thought it was a really good episode overall.
>I’m
>>hoping for a long slow build with Jericho and MJF.
>
>same. if they don't rush this shit we're in for months of
>amazing segments.

Going good so far. I honestly don't know if they have MJF or Jericho win, but I'm guessing MJF somehow ends up in the Inner Circle and slowly takes it away from Jericho, leading to his face turn.

>It was probably the best match on Dynamite since the parking
>lot brawl. Penta and Omega went pretty crazy, and it advanced
>the "Omega going heel" storyline. I really hope that they
>don't break up the Lucha Bros. as well. But that seems to be
>the long game.
>

That destroyer on the ramp... holy shit. I screeched. I’m hoping the Lucha Bros don’t do a “break up” angle, but maybe go separate ways for a bit so they can each have a singles run. 3 things have become pretty clear:

1) AEW doesn’t know what to do with them as a team. They haven’t had any real storylines and have bounced around with different alliances (partially just an issue with getting PAC into the country during COVID).

2) Up until this tournament they haven’t shined as singles wrestlers when they absolutely can. These are main event guys that haven’t been tapped into (which is a good thing as the other main event guys have already been used).

3) Pentagon is a natural heel and Fenix is a natural face. As great as they are at tag team wrestling, the dynamics don’t make a lot of sense.

Specifically, Rollins, Reigns, and Wyatt are all A+ right now. You can finally revolve the show around these guys - they look like the biggest deals, their stories have weight, their motivations make sense. Best characters in the company and homegrown talents.

Reigns in particular is finally as special as we've been told he was for all those years. Cena/Rock upside there.

there's a couple of other guys who are on the cusp of similar status too...McIntyre obviously, though I feel he really needs to get wins in front of crowds. Big E has it, provided he wants it which I can't tell. Andrade is the next Eddie Guerrero looking you in the face.

I still put it on as background on Mondays. But none of these plot lines are doing it for me

Also Orton champ again for real
Edit: Bray stuff is still fun as always

And it’s a wack look for Alexa too.

The only programs I have had interest in are Reigns/Uso and the formation of the upcoming stable (hopefully), Banks/Bayley, and Orton/Drew (though now as Ceej mentioned we're about to get that Edge title run which I'm so against). Other than that when any other segment or angle is being present I have no interest in it. I still like the Fiend/Bray, but gotta give him a really good storyline for him to be invested.

And I agree about Andrade, I just think they have a bit more faith in Garcia, and I'm cool with that if they make him the next Guerrero

As always watch along with us at: https://s.kast.gg/g/8lf7lrmxzl


Serena Deeb vs. Allysin Kay (NWA Women's Championship)
Orange Cassidy vs. John Silver
MJF vs. Chris Jericho
Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (The Elite Deletion)
Adam Page vs. Kenny Omega
FTR vs. The Young Bucks (AEW Tag Team Championships)
Cody vs. Darby Allin (TNT Championship)
Hikaru Shida vs. Nyla Rose (AEW Women's Championship)
Jon Moxley vs. Eddie Kingston (AEW World Championship)

Who you got?

>Serena Deeb vs. Allysin Kay (NWA Women's Championship)
Idk... put it back on Rosa!

>Orange Cassidy vs. John Silver
Orange

>MJF vs. Chris Jericho
MJF. Definitely want to see this program keep going.

>Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (The Elite Deletion)
Ugh. I’m gonna say Hardy wins this one. Just don’t murder each other plz.

>Adam Page vs. Kenny Omega
Gotta be the Cleaner.

>FTR vs. The Young Bucks (AEW Tag Team Championships)
I was gonna say Bucks but apparently Matt has a serious knee injury he’s been nursing for a while. Maybe they lose but the Bucks still finagle another title shot later, cause I’m not sure why they’d add the stop about not challenging again.

>Cody vs. Darby Allin (TNT Championship)
I can see Darby winning, but I think they’ll set up a bigger threat to the title before taking it off Cody. I don’t buy this version of Darby doing it. Just brooding in the stands and putting together kinda weak video packages? Nah.

>Hikaru Shida vs. Nyla Rose (AEW Women's Championship)
Shida. Let’s get the title on Baker next time around though.

>Jon Moxley vs. Eddie Kingston (AEW World Championship)
Mox. Gotta get to Mox/Omega 2. I wonder how he gets Kingston to say “I quit” though.

>
>Serena Deeb vs. Allysin Kay (NWA Women's Championship)

Deeb.

>Orange Cassidy vs. John Silver

Orange.

>MJF vs. Chris Jericho

I really can't call this one. Part of says MJF wins it out right. But I'd also be for Jericho winning, then letting MJF in the Inner Circle anyway because he showed "killer instinct." It'll make MJF turning his crew against him even better from a storytelling perspective.

>Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (The Elite Deletion)

I guess Hardy with a definitive win to make up for last time. But yeah, don't kill each other.

>Adam Page vs. Kenny Omega

Omega.

>FTR vs. The Young Bucks (AEW Tag Team Championships)

I honestly hope it's FTR. I like them as heel champions. I figure it will be the Bucks. They already did the whole "owners can't go after the titles" with Cody. They've been all over the place with positioning them as heels or faces.

>Cody vs. Darby Allin (TNT Championship)

Hoping Allin, but again I can see Cody keeping it. I hope it isn't Team Taz costing Allin the win. They've done Allin/Starks as the undercard far too long. I'm fine with it if the title is involved.

>Hikaru Shida vs. Nyla Rose (AEW Women's Championship)

Shida. Then move on to Baker.

>Jon Moxley vs. Eddie Kingston (AEW World Championship)

Moxley. Hopefully it's brutal. Figure Omega wins next.

the only resolution I can see for this is Roman v Rock at Mania where the Rock makes him see the err of his ways in a losing effort or something

I still gotta watch the main event but....

Holy fuck my jaw is on the floor at the Ibushi/White result. Did not see this coming, but it supports my pre-G1 theory. Give Naito a great heel to get past and have a nice run with both belts on Naito before Ibushi finally climbs the mountain next year.

The natural thing to do would be have Naito vs. Ibushi for the Intercontinental Title on the 4th and Naito vs. White for the Heavyweight Title on the 5th. Instead they chose to do Naito vs. Ibushi for the double belts on the 4th, with the winner taking on White for both belts on the 5th.

On the plus side, it makes WK entirely unpredictable. I give it even odds to all 3 of them to end up with the belts. But on the negative side, this renders the briefcase loss obsolete. Kinda dumb for such a historic change.

Also, what are they gonna do with Tana at WK? Maybe because they're not getting Moxley in January they decided to keep that briefcase with a heel. Or maybe they just didn't want to switch 2 briefcases in one night. That would've felt weird, and I certainly won't complain about a Kenta/Mox matchup, but I was still surprised at how clean Tana's loss was here. With all the losing he's been doing the last couple years I have to wonder how close to retirement he is.

In a way, and maybe this is me giving them too much credit, I can see how it would work.

Peep this

Jay White only has to wrestle once, on the 5th. He has the briefcase so he'll be the freshest wrestler in that title match. Naito and Ibushi face each other on the 4th. No matter who wins that match they're in no way going to be fresh for the 5th. The winner will be battered to hell. Jay White holding the briefcase means he has a serious advantage on the last night of Wrestle Kingdom.

At least this is what I told myself. This time the briefcase is like entering at number 30 for the rumble.

I just don’t want another BC fuckfest. I’ve seen enough nut shots to last a lifetime. Ban everyone from ringside for both matches just in case.

I don't mind the BC run ins on some matches but the main event to WK should be a solid match with no interference.

I'm still scared that EVIL is going to cost Jay the title and that'll start the battle within BC. I hope I'm wrong.

Even better than the last PPV, which I enjoyed. Some great matches, some really good ones. A bunch really delivered.


Serena Deeb vs. Allysin Kay (NWA Women's Championship)
Perfectly fine, if unremarkable.

Adam Page vs. Kenny Omega
Hot opener for the PPV proper. Good story where they both knew how each other worked and how to counter each other's arsenal. Of course Omega won.

Orange Cassidy vs. John Silver
Good cool down match after Omega vs. Page. SIlver as Ricky Bobby is pretty entertaining.

Cody vs. Darby Allin (TNT Championship)
Another well-told story, with Allin surviving and out-working Cody by the end. And you could see the Team Taz coming, but it set things up decently.

Hikaru Shida vs. Nyla Rose (AEW Women's Championship)
Decent enough. Not incredible or anything. But they got the point across that Shida had do some serious overkill to win. And I guess Vickie and Nyla is over. So now it's Shida vs. Britt Baker and possibly Nyla vs. Big Swole.

Matt Hardy vs. Sammy Guevara (The Elite Deletion)
Cinematic was best way to go. And I must, I didn't have the return of Gangrel and Shane Helms on my Bingo card. Got really dark by the end. Kind of made the post-match punchline a little weird.


FTR vs. The Young Bucks (AEW Tag Team Championships)
An instant classic. Especially the back half. Another match that told a great story. I almost wanted it to end in a time limit draw. Would have preferred FTR win, but Young Bucks taking it made sense.

MJF vs. Chris Jericho
Got the point across, with MJF beating Jericho at his own game. But man, is YJK slow, and it's definitely hurting his matches. At this point, either hide him in tag matches or just make the transition to broadcaster. I know he doesn't want to retire, but he's gotta change something up.

Jon Moxley vs. Eddie Kingston (AEW World Championship)
Brutal as it had to be. Lots of cringing with the tacks and barbed wire. Moxley survives and it Kingston still looks strong.

>Cody vs. Darby Allin (TNT Championship)
>Another well-told story, with Allin surviving and out-working
>Cody by the end. And you could see the Team Taz coming, but it
>set things up decently.

My tiny gripes with this match are:

1) the Last Supper roll up should’ve been the one that got the 3 count. More believable than the roll up that eventually did Cody in. Otherwise it was a great story. Cody was arrogant and misrepresented how his previous matches with Darby went, as a result Cody got caught. Actually would’ve preferred Cody going full heel here to sell the arrogance, but I guess there are too many heel factions so they gotta keep the Nightmare Family face. Still a weird line they’re walking with him though.

2) kinda sick of the beatdowns IMMEDIATELY after a face win. Not just in AEW, I mean all of wrestling. I get why they did it, but it’s been very prevalent lately and can be just as effective if done on TV the following week.

>FTR vs. The Young Bucks (AEW Tag Team Championships)
>An instant classic. Especially the back half. Another match
>that told a great story. I almost wanted it to end in a time
>limit draw. Would have preferred FTR win, but Young Bucks
>taking it made sense.

Match of the night imo. The big knock on the Bucks was that they could do all sorts of moves but couldn’t tell a story. I think that was a fair criticism, and even though they pretty much put that to bed 3 years ago that argument is officially dead after this and the match with Omega & Hangman a few months back.

>MJF vs. Chris Jericho
>Got the point across, with MJF beating Jericho at his own
>game. But man, is YJK slow, and it's definitely hurting his
>matches. At this point, either hide him in tag matches or just
>make the transition to broadcaster. I know he doesn't want to
>retire, but he's gotta change something up.

The match itself didn’t really do it for me and I don’t think it exactly told the story they were going for, but still can’t wait to see how the story plays out.

>I think that was a fair criticism, and even though they pretty
>much put that to bed 3 years ago that argument is officially
>dead after this and the match with Omega & Hangman a few
>months back.

Definitely one of the absolute best tag matches I can think of in recent memory. It's hard to put together a match that tops that one, and you'd have to seriously tweak some of the ingredients.

You'd need to have the same quality work in-ring, with much bigger, better established superstar teams, with greater anticipation built up.

I realize that was an aside, but I love the hell out of that match, lol.

I didn't catch the PPV but if the FTR/YB match is comparable to the Omega/Hangman joint, I'll have to check it out.

>
>I didn't catch the PPV but if the FTR/YB match is comparable
>to the Omega/Hangman joint, I'll have to check it out.

My inkling is to say Bucks vs. Hangman/Omega based off of emotion alone, but Bucks/FTR was REALLY fucking good. It’s close.

Remember what he was looking like in his WWE comeback in 2012/13 when he was on that diet and yoga?

He looks like 1992 Greg The Hammer Valentine out there now.

>Remember what he was looking like in his WWE comeback in
>2012/13 when he was on that diet and yoga?
>
>He looks like 1992 Greg The Hammer Valentine out there now.

>>Remember what he was looking like in his WWE comeback in
>>2012/13 when he was on that diet and yoga?
>>
>>He looks like 1992 Greg The Hammer Valentine out there now.

Maybe even more

Too much bubbly

that was better than the last few PPV outings but a lot of it was confusing and dumb

FTR-Bucks...why is this seen as good? The Bucks are truly terrible, the finish was obvious with the dumb stipulation, the spike piledriver spot was dumb and required way too much cooperation, i have trouble accepting the YBs winning ANY physical combat scenario, Matt Jackson's selling is hilariously bad (OW THIS HURTS JUST KIDDING WATCH THIS OW THIS HURTS AGAIN), Nick hit some move and got caught checking whether the camera was on him when he was "emoting", and the finish was fucking stupid. What a waste of FTR. Comparing Cash Wheeler to either one of these assholes as either a performer or athlete is patently absurd.

Moxley title match, trading moves all over the arena, bunch of plunder, thumbtacks, all his indie hits played yet again.

the Serena Deeb-Allysin Kay match was really good, and in general the NWA women have made the AEW women look really amateurish.

Cody-Darby was great, and im glad Ricky Starks got a little screen time.

Orange Cassidy-John Silver was a perfectly acceptable second match, even tho Orange Cassidy is a syndicated rerun by now. Its the same thing over and over and over. Where does this guy go? Why is he getting shoved down my throat while Jungle Boy languishes?

The women's title match was okay, but again bereft of selling despite working an injury angle. Ref Aubrey's authority and enforcement of rules made Vickie's interference mean something. How about that? Funny how that works...

Page-Omega...also okay. The "story" they told is way over blown tho. Two emo dudes in a tag team broke up amicably, if not mutually. Then they had a match based around a tournament. One guy won the match. The other guy cried and sulked in the shadows. The end. Im not seeing the reason i was supposed to care about 2 unlikable assholes. Which sucks because I reeeeeally like Adam Page as a worker.

The cinematic match was way too much smart mark wankery. Would be embarrassed to have watched that with a potential casual fan.

Jericho-MJF had a cool finish, but I honestly dont remember anything about the rest of it.

this turned into a rant, but fuck. they need a real live booker. on the plus side...Jim Ross was on fire working to get this shit over, and continued to be a vocal avatar for normal people watching fuckery and thinking "Is there any security at all here"?

and why wasnt there a god damn live mic near the ring? oh thats right, because your namesake faction cant talk. at least good ol TK knows not to give Omega and the Bucks enough microphone cord to hang themselves.

jesus i wrote a novel. but fuck!

I've been tired of him since his first match after PAC when it was obvious that he was a one-trick pony. Despite the fact that I thought they got Cody's return/Brodie Lee's reign completely wrong I was so glad that Orange Cassidy didn't end up as TNT Champ.

And if Roman Reigns can't get the Superman Punch over for me then there's no way this guy will.

>Moxley title match, trading moves all over the arena, bunch of
>plunder, thumbtacks, all his indie hits played yet again.
>

I hate to say it but I'm bored with Moxley. I think this feud with Eddie Kingston showed that it's really time for something new. I saw a lot of praise for it but I thought the build to this match was awful. Kingston is a great talker but all of that "nothing matters more in our industry than this championship," "this is why I never gave my mother a daughter-in-law" stuff and Moxley's responses to them were absurd (in a bad way).

it just got old the second time i saw him

it's an indie gimmick that doesnt belong on TV, but im sure hes a nice fella lol

The Bucks can be fun, but it’s all so deliberately indie that it does get really hard to take them seriously as credible competitors a lot of times

In order for someone to be a top guy, a performer has to WANT to be a top guy. That focus and effort comes through in mic work, in matches, and nowadays even in how some on is portrayed away from the ring - social media for example. A lot of these guys who we think should be top guys don’t seem to really understand the focus that entails. Miro, Hangman, and especially Omega all look the part and should be major players over there. But they’re not , and what’s worse is that they don’t really seem to care that they’re not.

Moxley is and will always be a derivative performer for me. He’s an amalgam of all of the worst traits of a bygone era in wrestling...a post-Attitude embodiment of all the bad stuff we’ve forgotten from that time. We of course remember Austin vs Rock at Mania 17, we remember Triple H returning at MSG - big stars doing mostly mature big star shit. But we forget that in that same period of time backyard wrestling was a real thing, there was a hardcore title, and that ECW was more popular than it deserved to be. Moxley seems to wear his influences on his sleeve, and those influences all seem to be the shit I hate most about late 90s/early 2000s pro wrestling.

In general, a lot of the performers on the AEW show just aren’t TV ready. They lack presence, they don’t project largely enough, they can’t elevate the stakes of their matches organically.

It’s good to have an alternative. But there’s two obvious guys on the entire AEW roster who could main event in WWE and that’s Cody and MJF. Omega is the obvious diamond in the rough - he could be every bit as big as Reigns or Rollins if he wanted - but it seems he’d rather just have fast patched matches and play video games.

I thought this show was going to be cool. Most of these guys and girls are definitely not cool.

and Jungle Boy has that potential but he needs a mentor, and he doesnt have anyone suitable around him

>The Bucks can be fun, but it’s all so deliberately indie
>that it does get really hard to take them seriously as
>credible competitors a lot of times

its never fun for me. its choreographed tomfoolery and i spend most of their matches hoping someone gets potatoed

>In order for someone to be a top guy, a performer has to WANT
>to be a top guy. That focus and effort comes through in mic
>work, in matches, and nowadays even in how some on is
>portrayed away from the ring - social media for example. A lot
>of these guys who we think should be top guys don’t seem to
>really understand the focus that entails. Miro, Hangman, and
>especially Omega all look the part and should be major players
>over there. But they’re not , and what’s worse is that
>they don’t really seem to care that they’re not.

i think Tony Khan thinks Omega IS a big star right now, and its laughably wrong. he spent his whole first year doing nothing memorable and getting no one else over. and now hes going to be the first ever national TV wrestling champion who has never done a live promo looking into a camera in the middle of the ring. its absurd.

>Moxley is and will always be a derivative performer for me.
>He’s an amalgam of all of the worst traits of a bygone era
>in wrestling...a post-Attitude embodiment of all the bad stuff
>we’ve forgotten from that time. We of course remember Austin
>vs Rock at Mania 17, we remember Triple H returning at MSG -
>big stars doing mostly mature big star shit. But we forget
>that in that same period of time backyard wrestling was a real
>thing, there was a hardcore title, and that ECW was more
>popular than it deserved to be. Moxley seems to wear his
>influences on his sleeve, and those influences all seem to be
>the shit I hate most about late 90s/early 2000s pro wrestling.

i dont forget, but it was segregated. WWF had a HC champion, but they never had HC matches for the World Title. so i could enjoy watching Bob Holly beat the shit out of someone at 845, and then be done with it by 10 for the main event.

>In general, a lot of the performers on the AEW show just
>aren’t TV ready. They lack presence, they don’t project
>largely enough, they can’t elevate the stakes of their
>matches organically.

they arent, and what they're doing is way worse than sending them out there and letting them fuck up over and over and over again until they get good at it.

>It’s good to have an alternative. But there’s two obvious
>guys on the entire AEW roster who could main event in WWE and
>that’s Cody and MJF. Omega is the obvious diamond in the
>rough - he could be every bit as big as Reigns or Rollins if
>he wanted - but it seems he’d rather just have fast patched
>matches and play video games.

No he couldnt lol. Even comparing him to RR as a babyface is an insult to the entire Anoa'i family. i met him a few times when we were both at Georgia Tech and he was absolutely terrifying even then lol.

>I thought this show was going to be cool. Most of these guys
>and girls are definitely not cool.

This is a core problem. Does anyone actually want to be like Chuck Taylor? Nick Jackson? Cowboy Shit was cool and then he got WWE'd so who knows how thats gonna change, but it has to

He’s the guy who has jumped out at me, of those who I didn’t previously know. Charismatic in his own way, over, and a good worker. Star potential IMO. Glad they’re pushing him.

the selling is great, the facials are great, the aggressive snap to his work is great

but that has a hard ceiling until he tells us who he is

what an excellent 30 minutes of pro wrestling television

zero nonsense, personal issues, and imo Sydal and Cage had a better match than any on the ppv other than the TNT title match. I feel like i finally saw why Evan Bourne was a big deal (just never saw him before)

Jericho's obligatory RAW segment, and the Elite not even being able to do a believable pre-tape, aside...awesome stuff.

Starks, PAC, Schiavone's emotional investment into the Lucha Bros situation, Spears-Sky, and a bunkhouse match that had every opportunity to go off the rails but never did, all highly entertaining.

even Brandi managed to do something emotional and believable

as a wise man says "do more of the good shit, less of the bad shit"

Some of the stuff they do is openly bad. It's just too indy in a bad way like you said. Like WWE, they basically have to be watched with fast-forwarding as an option.

I like the Bucks. I know I'm getting a nerdy video game match from them with all sorts of 80s NWA-level callbacks plus silly big moves. The kickout issue is a real one. I'm with everyone there. To me, it has been killing some of the NXT stuff this year too so that's not just the Bucks. Murrican rasslin needs a strong reset. Keep reversals. Lose most of the finisher kickouts. If you take a finish, you're finished 97% of the time. Problem solved. Then folks would have to figure out how to get people amped some other way. And also, people need to lose to more 'secondary' finishes. And they need to mess around more with match times to keep people off balance.

I miss Brandon Stroud's writing but can't defend the alleged foolishness. But that site was a big thing that kept me updated on WWE. Without it, there's just too much to watch and I haven't found another site to count on. I turn on WWE occasionally to get caught up, but I'm not even a lock to watch a PPV now depending on the card. It is kinda on them, kinda on 2020 being what it has been.

I got to the point where the weekly shows were too much of a mess for me to bother with...even with the ffwd after the fact plan. So that's where I'm at.

>that was better than the last few PPV outings but a lot of it
>was confusing and dumb
>
>FTR-Bucks...why is this seen as good? The Bucks are truly
>terrible, the finish was obvious with the dumb stipulation,
>the spike piledriver spot was dumb and required way too much
>cooperation, i have trouble accepting the YBs winning ANY
>physical combat scenario, Matt Jackson's selling is
>hilariously bad (OW THIS HURTS JUST KIDDING WATCH THIS OW THIS
>HURTS AGAIN), Nick hit some move and got caught checking
>whether the camera was on him when he was "emoting", and the
>finish was fucking stupid. What a waste of FTR. Comparing
>Cash Wheeler to either one of these assholes as either a
>performer or athlete is patently absurd.
>
>Moxley title match, trading moves all over the arena, bunch of
>plunder, thumbtacks, all his indie hits played yet again.
>
>the Serena Deeb-Allysin Kay match was really good, and in
>general the NWA women have made the AEW women look really
>amateurish.
>
>Cody-Darby was great, and im glad Ricky Starks got a little
>screen time.
>
>Orange Cassidy-John Silver was a perfectly acceptable second
>match, even tho Orange Cassidy is a syndicated rerun by now.
>Its the same thing over and over and over. Where does this
>guy go? Why is he getting shoved down my throat while Jungle
>Boy languishes?
>
>The women's title match was okay, but again bereft of selling
>despite working an injury angle. Ref Aubrey's authority and
>enforcement of rules made Vickie's interference mean
>something. How about that? Funny how that works...
>
>Page-Omega...also okay. The "story" they told is way over
>blown tho. Two emo dudes in a tag team broke up amicably, if
>not mutually. Then they had a match based around a
>tournament. One guy won the match. The other guy cried and
>sulked in the shadows. The end. Im not seeing the reason i
>was supposed to care about 2 unlikable assholes. Which sucks
>because I reeeeeally like Adam Page as a worker.
>
>The cinematic match was way too much smart mark wankery.
>Would be embarrassed to have watched that with a potential
>casual fan.
>
>Jericho-MJF had a cool finish, but I honestly dont remember
>anything about the rest of it.
>
>this turned into a rant, but fuck. they need a real live
>booker. on the plus side...Jim Ross was on fire working to
>get this shit over, and continued to be a vocal avatar for
>normal people watching fuckery and thinking "Is there any
>security at all here"?
>
>and why wasnt there a god damn live mic near the ring? oh
>thats right, because your namesake faction cant talk. at
>least good ol TK knows not to give Omega and the Bucks enough
>microphone cord to hang themselves.
>
>jesus i wrote a novel. but fuck!

I find that when I watch PPVs now, I don’t even pay attention until the match has gone 10+ minutes and the finisher kickouts have started. That formula is just so played and boring.

If you read or watch any of these new nerd reviews of old PPVs, they all shit on the short matches with unpredictable finishes. SMH....those matches and finishes are NEEDED so when the big matches do something different, it feels special.

I don’t know...Attitude Era hotshotted everything in the name of shock value, and it’s all never been the same since.

>I find that when I watch PPVs now, I don’t even pay
>attention until the match has gone 10+ minutes and the
>finisher kickouts have started. That formula is just so
>played and boring.

I love Okada with a passion and his title reign was spectacular. The matches were fantastic, but once the first Kenny Omega match got GOAT-level praise, it seemed like every title match went 30+ minutes.

It's the same reason why 2 out of 3 falls matches are lame, what's the point of caring until it's 1-1?

Going back and re-watching Attitude Era Raws is wild. They are 2-hour shows but with like 10+ matches packed in, none of which go any longer than 4-5 minutes. Just enough for each wrestler involved to get a signature move or taunt in to get their character over, and for an angle to get squeezed in (run in or whatever) to move a storyline along. Nowadays nearly all TV matches are the length PPV matches used to be, while that should be reserved to the "main event" of every hour.

RAW in 1999 featured like 25 guys on a promo level that only Cody, Moxley, Starks and some retired dudes can match

ive been saying fewer matches and more talking since episode 3. and not Jericho's SNL nonsense either, they need guys to look into the camera on live TV and make me believe what they are saying.

but even without that, fewer matches for shorter times (not just 10 minutes of shit sprinted thru in 4 minutes) would do then so much better. they just dont want people to have losses on their records, but they need midcard dudes with 35% winning percentages to establish tiers. they have more than 40 wrestlers with winning percentages over 65%.

thats like 8 seeds in the NBA with 60 wins because the playoff teams played the bottom 10 82 times.

they really need a booker. and AEW has created a huge Eddie Gilbert sized hole in my heart. this would have been his fucking JAM, and if Tony Khan has half the wrestling brain he thinks he does Hot Stuff would be booking this show.

I think AEW has been really good since the 1-year anniversary so it makes me hopeful, but there are still some huge potholes in the road.

>
>FTR-Bucks...why is this seen as good?

I totally understand why some folks hate the Bucks and kinda agree they don't look believable against bigger/more physical tag teams. That being said, I thought this match was awesome, and while the Bucks do get bad at selling injuries sometimes I didn't see that here, or at least I didn't see it as any different than other wrestlers these days. Matt hit that last superkick knowing he was gonna be fucked after it and he was.


>
>Moxley title match, trading moves all over the arena, bunch of
>plunder, thumbtacks, all his indie hits played yet again.


I go back-and-forth on Mox, but his run as champ has served it's purpose: establish the legitimacy of the title. Jericho then Mox (then probably Kenny) makes sense as the first champs in the company. Now when someone newer (like Hangman) eventually wins the title it will mean that much more. I'm not a huge fan of the hardcore stuff, and lord knows AEW has had a few truly uncomfortable moments involving dangerous moves, but I thought Kingston/Mox was pretty compelling stuff even if it wasn't the highlight of the ppv.


>
>the Serena Deeb-Allysin Kay match was really good, and in
>general the NWA women have made the AEW women look really
>amateurish.

I was catching up on New Japan during the buy-in, but I caught the end and it seemed solid.

>
>Cody-Darby was great, and im glad Ricky Starks got a little
>screen time.
>
>Orange Cassidy-John Silver was a perfectly acceptable second
>match, even tho Orange Cassidy is a syndicated rerun by now.
>Its the same thing over and over and over. Where does this
>guy go? Why is he getting shoved down my throat while Jungle
>Boy languishes?

I disagree with the idea that his gimmick has stayed the same. A few months ago he was just a sloth and legitimately didn't care about winning or losing. Now I read it as he only uses that sloth stuff for strategy occasionally. For instance, he did his routine this time around knowing it would frustrate John Silver and get him off his game, but he doesn't really play that shit with the likes of Cody and Jericho for the most part. He's more likely to turn it up at the bell with a bigger opponent to throw them off. Admittedly that might place some of the explanation of the character work in the hands of the announce team. His offense still needs some work to make it a tad more believable, but I think he's pretty close.

To answer your question though, a few months back the dirtsheets said they are planning a big push for Jungleboy but they wanted crowds to be back before they pulled the trigger. Maybe they're waiting for full capactiy/traveling shows or maybe they got cold feet. Idk... I wanna see that push though.


>The women's title match was okay, but again bereft of selling
>despite working an injury angle. Ref Aubrey's authority and
>enforcement of rules made Vickie's interference mean
>something. How about that? Funny how that works...

I really liked the match, and Shida's definitely been their best champ, but they have a lot of work to do with this division. They may have to bite the bullet and give Tessa a bunch of money, even if it goes against their anti-bullying culture. She's the only star that's a free agent right now. I do wanna see a Baker championship run though.


>
>Page-Omega...also okay. The "story" they told is way over
>blown tho.

Agree to disagree on this one. I think they could've handled the post-breakup stuff a bit better, but overall the storytelling on this feud has been phenomenal ever since they won the titles and Hangman teased giving the buckshot lariat to Kenny. It's been one of the rare cases when wrestling does subtlety well. That interview where Kenny listed the Bucks as his favorite tag team and Hangman was surprised he didn't answer them replays in my mind a lot and makes me smile.


>
>this turned into a rant, but fuck. they need a real live
>booker.

I think they need a writer/continuity person. They let some of the wrong people improvise, and the more people are involved in a segment the messier the mic work gets.

They also too often have multiple wrestlers doing the same shit on the same show. If someone gets hit in the balls earlier in the show, I don't want to see that later in the show. If someone takes a bunch of chair shots early in the show, I don't want to see that later in the show. It doesn't appear that it's anyone's job to make sure these issues are smoothed out. They desperately need that.

There are some other clear issues here that they gotta solve in Year 2. The lack of Black stars is pretty noticeable but they're making strides with Hobbs, Scorpio, Private Party, and Swole. The Miro gimmick is DOA and the Dark Order is super fucking corny again. Time to cut bait and repackage those mfers.

>I think AEW has been really good since the 1-year anniversary
>so it makes me hopeful, but there are still some huge potholes
>in the road.

it oscillates for me depending on whats on the show. i thought this past ep was the best since Starks did his "i dont need to paint my face to be somebody" but that was a while ago at this point.

i should say that ive watched every PPV, Dark, and Dynamite in its entirety bc i LOVE the high points and i really want it to succeed. the issue for me is that it has moments where i feel dumb for watching. its like playing golf almost. that one shot reminds you why you suffer thru triple after triple. but it could be SO much better

>I totally understand why some folks hate the Bucks and kinda
>agree they don't look believable against bigger/more physical
>tag teams. That being said, I thought this match was awesome,
>and while the Bucks do get bad at selling injuries sometimes I
>didn't see that here, or at least I didn't see it as any
>different than other wrestlers these days. Matt hit that last
>superkick knowing he was gonna be fucked after it and he was.

the drama is in the selling for me, and the false finishes are clearly meant as a replacement. but its like my neurons flame out on them. that being said i thought FTR was phenomenal. Cash in particular was bumping around like a lunatic, and it seemed to me they went out there solely to get themselves over in a loss. Which...more power to them. Theyve not been handled well by the booker, so might as well do it yourselves. I really hated the absence of Tully though. WTF?

>I go back-and-forth on Mox, but his run as champ has served
>it's purpose: establish the legitimacy of the title. Jericho
>then Mox (then probably Kenny) makes sense as the first champs
>in the company. Now when someone newer (like Hangman)
>eventually wins the title it will mean that much more. I'm not
>a huge fan of the hardcore stuff, and lord knows AEW has had a
>few truly uncomfortable moments involving dangerous moves, but
>I thought Kingston/Mox was pretty compelling stuff even if it
>wasn't the highlight of the ppv.

i would agree with that up till Omega. You lost me there lol. Its just that Moxley's matches are boring. The builds are always awesome tho.


>>Cody-Darby was great, and im glad Ricky Starks got a little
>>screen time.

>I disagree with the idea that his gimmick has stayed the same.
>A few months ago he was just a sloth and legitimately didn't
>care about winning or losing. Now I read it as he only uses
>that sloth stuff for strategy occasionally. For instance, he
>did his routine this time around knowing it would frustrate
>John Silver and get him off his game, but he doesn't really
>play that shit with the likes of Cody and Jericho for the most
>part. He's more likely to turn it up at the bell with a bigger
>opponent to throw them off. Admittedly that might place some
>of the explanation of the character work in the hands of the
>announce team. His offense still needs some work to make it a
>tad more believable, but I think he's pretty close.

Well, to me that kinda sounds like his gimmick changed in that he does it less, and thats not really "changing" to me. Hes a good athlete, but someone who just "does stuff" isnt interesting to me. Silver was perfectly fine tho and needs out of his program (more later) badly. He can be a tier 3 gatekeeper for babyfaces making their emergence from Dark to Dynamite and make them all look good.

>To answer your question though, a few months back the
>dirtsheets said they are planning a big push for Jungleboy but
>they wanted crowds to be back before they pulled the trigger.
>Maybe they're waiting for full capactiy/traveling shows or
>maybe they got cold feet. Idk... I wanna see that push
>though.

wrestling companies need to stop worrying about that. they're gonna need 9 months of top quality television between now and then.

but i too want that, badly. he's one of the rare dudes who could go on Jimmy Fallon to promote a PPV match against MJF and move numbers.

>I really liked the match, and Shida's definitely been their
>best champ, but they have a lot of work to do with this
>division. They may have to bite the bullet and give Tessa a
>bunch of money, even if it goes against their anti-bullying
>culture. She's the only star that's a free agent right now. I
>do wanna see a Baker championship run though.

the injury stop and go was really my only issue with it other than the fact that weve seen them wrestle, what...4 times now? credit to them,. they've tried to make them all different, but we need a shakeup. the NWA women give me hope.

>Agree to disagree on this one. I think they could've handled
>the post-breakup stuff a bit better, but overall the
>storytelling on this feud has been phenomenal ever since they
>won the titles and Hangman teased giving the buckshot lariat
>to Kenny.

this was the last interesting thing that happened imo. since then it kinda just failed to launch. their emotional angst seems more like story backdrop than story itself. betrayal is a story, redemption is a story, revenge is a story...for me personally, people pondering those things while they sulk is not.

>It's been one of the rare cases when wrestling does
>subtlety well. That interview where Kenny listed the Bucks as
>his favorite tag team and Hangman was surprised he didn't
>answer them replays in my mind a lot and makes me smile.

im sorry but that was not good for me lmao. angsty, overly sensitive "babyfaces" with low self-esteem...thats a no for me dawg. this booking has not been kind to him in my eyes. the standing back in the shadows while the Bucks celebrated had me howling at the Degrassi-ness of it all.

>I think they need a writer/continuity person. They let some of
>the wrong people improvise, and the more people are involved
>in a segment the messier the mic work gets.

a regular person in the writer's room who isnt a buddy of the boys would even work at this point. soneone to just constantly ask "why?"

>They also too often have multiple wrestlers doing the same
>shit on the same show. If someone gets hit in the balls
>earlier in the show, I don't want to see that later in the
>show. If someone takes a bunch of chair shots early in the
>show, I don't want to see that later in the show. It doesn't
>appear that it's anyone's job to make sure these issues are
>smoothed out. They desperately need that.

huge problem. thats why they need a real booker who knows how to get shit over starting at the micro level. a great idea would be banning the tope bc of injuries. its probably a good idea anyways, but if ppl insist on doing them, make them go away and then bring them back SLOWWWWWWWLY. voila, you turned a cliche into something meaningful.

>There are some other clear issues here that they gotta solve
>in Year 2. The lack of Black stars is pretty noticeable but
>they're making strides with Hobbs, Scorpio, Private Party, and
>Swole. The Miro gimmick is DOA and the Dark Order is super
>fucking corny again. Time to cut bait and repackage those
>mfers.

you know its funny, the Black jabronis made a massive improvement to Dark post-pandemic. dudes like Shawn Dean (way better worker than either of PP imo), M'badu, Lee Johnson, etc.

Finally...Dark Fucking Order. That gimmick is like a year and half old by now. They aint the fuckin Heenan Family, or even the Dangerous Alliance. it needs to die, and the Exalted One's loss was a great time.

>this was the last interesting thing that happened imo. since
>then it kinda just failed to launch. their emotional angst
>seems more like story backdrop than story itself. betrayal is
>a story, redemption is a story, revenge is a story...for me
>personally, people pondering those things while they sulk is
>not.

but this is sorta the beginning of the real story, which is why this match was part of a tournament rather than big blowoff to a feud. that's in the future.

>im sorry but that was not good for me lmao. angsty, overly
>sensitive "babyfaces" with low self-esteem...thats a no for me
>dawg. this booking has not been kind to him in my eyes. the
>standing back in the shadows while the Bucks celebrated had me
>howling at the Degrassi-ness of it all.

Fair point for Hangman, although I look at it as him reflecting on his bad choices (drinking, trusting FTR, etc.) rather than specifically being emo about Kenny and the Bucks. I personally loved the fact that he was just in the background and they barely mentioned it though. Kenny is basically a heel at this point though, albeit not a dastardly one. I think the ridiculous entrances and needling Hangman with his "North Carolina" intros solidified that.


>you know its funny, the Black jabronis made a massive
>improvement to Dark post-pandemic. dudes like Shawn Dean (way
>better worker than either of PP imo), M'badu, Lee Johnson,
>etc.
>

Sometimes I wish I watched Dark, but there just ain't enough time in the week lol. I don't even really watch WWE much these days and I still can't find the time. And now that there are like 12 matches a week it seems pretty daunting.

for one, the logic of having a tournament not based on their own rankings is silly. its like it was meant to fill a story hole. stakes can be story, but how did those people become the ones competing?

second, if you're gonna gimmick the draw, plant seeds to grow down the road. why send Jungle Boy against Wardlow and Page against Cabana? Flip that around, and they had something. Give Jungle Boy a legitimizing kind of clean win vs Cabana, put Page thru an absolute WAR with Wardlow, and then youve got a clear ultra-face underdog against a favored, but obvi not full-strength Page, and then youve got something cooking.

it all comes back to them really needing a booker imo. someone from within the business as opposed to someone playing with his real life action figures.

>for one, the logic of having a tournament not based on their
>own rankings is silly. its like it was meant to fill a story
>hole. stakes can be story, but how did those people become
>the ones competing?

Couldn't agree with this more. This is a problem that WWE always has with qualifying matches that the rankings system really should be used to avoid. And there are ways to gimmick the story if you don't purely want to use rankings (especially since only the top five are actually ranked as far as the audience is aware). Have a top five MJF find a way to nominate Wardlow as his replacement. Likewise for Brodie Lee and Colt Cabana (if he absolutely must be in it). Fake some injuries. Something.

no need to rush them into a title match just to turn around basically show us that they are just part of the same pack as everyone else.

they should have been kept away from Moxley for months after their debuts. also would have actually justified the resurrection of the FTW title.

so now Lance Archer beats up crew members and cant get a match with anyone that means something. using monster heels to legitimize your champion is great when there are 5-10 federations with TV and they can be moved around, not so great when you burn through the entire supply in 6 months. being MJFs lackey has saved Wardlow in that regard.

I get it. People love tournaments and battle royals and all that... so they shouldn’t have rankings if that’s how they’re gonna decide challengers. Or at least make the rankings matter in that context like when they did a gauntlet match of the ranked tag teams and #1 got to enter last. Same deal with a tournament... give #1 a bye, or in a battle royale the #1 enters last. For the most part though it should just be the #1 ranked person getting a title shot. It was implied that would be the case when you started the rankings and now they’ve thrown that out the window.

>I go back-and-forth on Mox, but his run as champ has served
>it's purpose: establish the legitimacy of the title. Jericho
>then Mox (then probably Kenny) makes sense as the first champs
>in the company. Now when someone newer (like Hangman)
>eventually wins the title it will mean that much more. I'm not
>a huge fan of the hardcore stuff, and lord knows AEW has had a
>few truly uncomfortable moments involving dangerous moves, but
>I thought Kingston/Mox was pretty compelling stuff even if it
>wasn't the highlight of the ppv.

Just to build off of this, I'm fine with "established" guyslike Moxley keeping the belt until the crowds come back. Obviously guys like Hangman, MJF, Jungle Boy, Sammy, and Starks are the future of the company (you can also see something in Hobbs and even Top Flight, even though they're still on the rough side), but running with them now, with little apparent crowd reaction would just be a waste. Like, whenever we do get through this thing, you put the belt on MJF and let him keep it for two years because he knows how to make the fans hate him. But for now, putting him in an angle with Jericho so he can pass the torch to him makes sense.


>I was catching up on New Japan during the buy-in, but I caught
>the end and it seemed solid.

Just noting that the Deeb vs. Thunderosa rematch tonight was great, especially after the Britt run-in.

>Agree to disagree on this one. I think they could've handled
>the post-breakup stuff a bit better, but overall the
>storytelling on this feud has been phenomenal ever since they
>won the titles and Hangman teased giving the buckshot lariat
>to Kenny. It's been one of the rare cases when wrestling does
>subtlety well. That interview where Kenny listed the Bucks as
>his favorite tag team and Hangman was surprised he didn't
>answer them replays in my mind a lot and makes me smile.

I agree that I like the way they're handling this too. Hangman's eventually going to hit his rock-bottom, and rebound from there. We're still a ways from getting to that point tho.

(I guessing it was Hangman who attacked Moxley tonight)


>There are some other clear issues here that they gotta solve
>in Year 2. The lack of Black stars is pretty noticeable but
>they're making strides with Hobbs, Scorpio, Private Party, and
>Swole.

The Top Flight guys seem promising, though they're still pretty limited. The Acclaimed just got signed and they have a lot of upside. Lee Jordan deserves some more shine. And as CGonz said, a lot of the Black enhancement talent is really pretty good. I'm interested to see if TNT (D-Von's twin sons) pan out into something intereting.

>The Miro gimmick is DOA

They really need to find something better for him to do. Chaining him to Kip Sabian was a shitty idea.

>and the Dark Order is super fucking corny again. Time to cut bait and
>repackage those mfers.

I actually blame this on Brodie Lee's ankle injury. They've been completely match since the chain match, which was the last time Lee was on TV. Before that, it seemed like they were onto something with them finding a way to slowly corrupt Colt Cabana, but that seems to have been dropped. I don't care about Anna Jay vs. Brandi and while super-hyper John Silver is entertaining, he's not supposed to be a centerpiece.

>Just to build off of this, I'm fine with "established"
>guyslike Moxley keeping the belt until the crowds come back.
>Obviously guys like Hangman, MJF, Jungle Boy, Sammy, and
>Starks are the future of the company (you can also see
>something in Hobbs and even Top Flight, even though they're
>still on the rough side), but running with them now, with
>little apparent crowd reaction would just be a waste. Like,
>whenever we do get through this thing, you put the belt on MJF
>and let him keep it for two years because he knows how to make
>the fans hate him. But for now, putting him in an angle with
>Jericho so he can pass the torch to him makes sense.

this is turning into a bad strategy for both companies. the crowds aint coming back in a time frame that will allow them to keep putting out "safe" TV until then. they need hotter TV more than ever. Jungle Boy is doing *nothing*. Thats just asinine. This is their chance to make STARS. They have minimal logistical concerns and can focus solely on compelling television. Unfortunately its exposing them. Its easy to get crowd pops when people are seeing their Youtube favorites for the first time, but there is another half year of telelvision at least before they leave Jax.

>Just noting that the Deeb vs. Thunderosa rematch tonight was
>great, especially after the Britt run-in.

Even then...it had no impact on the match and then the announcers were the ones that had to make it try to mean something. That should have led directly to the finish. And it was great...until run-in wasnt the finish. Everything after that, including the post-match, was wildly off the rails.

.
>
>I agree that I like the way they're handling this too.
>Hangman's eventually going to hit his rock-bottom, and rebound
>from there. We're still a ways from getting to that point
>tho.

Here's my question...so what? Who honestly cares about him? NOT the performer, but Hangman. Fuck him lol. Hes been presented as a douche that you would *never* allow access to your life.

Adam Page the man tho...they had a little bit of magic with Cowboy Shit and now its gone.

>(I guessing it was Hangman who attacked Moxley tonight)

Why? To get back in the good graces of the group where 9 months ago the story was that he just had to leave? Thats the entirety of Adam Page's story? Hes spent the last year drinking and waffling on whether or not he wants to be a part of the Elite? Like...why should i care about that? Do you whatever you want bro, just stoo crying and punch someone, starting with FTR considering they lifted your skirt on national TV maybe?

>The Top Flight guys seem promising, though they're still
>pretty limited. The Acclaimed just got signed and they have a
>lot of upside. Lee Jordan deserves some more shine. And as
>CGonz said, a lot of the Black enhancement talent is really
>pretty good. I'm interested to see if TNT (D-Von's twin sons)
>pan out into something intereting.

The idea that Top Flight got put on TV before The Acclaimed is a picture perfect example of how poorly the Young Bucks understand anything other than choreographing spots. Max Castor has done more with a mic in his hand in the last 3 weeks than the Bucks have since the dawn of the company. THATs who needs to be on TV. Also again...there are rankings. Why are these randoms given a title shot?

Beyond that, so many interesting Black jabronis (and i say jabroni with a certain amount of endearment). I really need to know about BSHP KING and his tactical vest lmao. Is he a Special Forces vet? A street thug? Perhaps a crime fighting vigilante? I love his look and his work. Dark needs to carve out space for these people to talk.

>They really need to find something better for him to do.
>Chaining him to Kip Sabian was a shitty idea.

uh...yeah. not great. i actually liked Kip Sabian's bobby heenan wrestler/manager thing. obviously hes not the Brain, but i actually liked watching him bump around after trying to interfere in Penelope's matches.

>I actually blame this on Brodie Lee's ankle injury. They've
>been completely match since the chain match, which was the
>last time Lee was on TV. Before that, it seemed like they were
>onto something with them finding a way to slowly corrupt Colt
>Cabana, but that seems to have been dropped. I don't care
>about Anna Jay vs. Brandi and while super-hyper John Silver is
>entertaining, he's not supposed to be a centerpiece.

well why didnt he hobble his ass out there and get his heat back? i remember Macho Man on crutches on Nitro the night after DDP beat his ass, cutting a ruthless promo.

i want this to be good. but im starting to think it will never be consistently good until Tony Khan hands over the book to someone who understands the "why's". hes a prototype for modern fans who think that since they know its a work, and can remember all the hot angles and matches, they understand the psychology of it. he clearly doesnt. everything good in AEW has come from people who do, like Cody/MJF/Starks/SCU/Jericho, while the eponymous spot monkeys still cant deliver a good live promo 18 months in and have rewarded themselves for that with the most prestigious belts in either division. they also got *nobody* over even though im sure they think they spent the last year and a half making dudes. not one single wrestler can say they got over because of their program with the Bucks or Omega, mostly because their ideas of what "over" means is totally warped. you can either be ultra realistic or ultra charismatic to get over with pop American audiences. none of those no-selling derps is either of those things.

i shudder to think about what this show would look like without the influx of NWA talent. that was THE most important thing that happened to AEW this year, and they need to go ahead and put their belt one of those women. that needs to be a long term relationship. maybe even get E! LI! DRAKE! on the show. id pop hard for that lol.

>

I didn't, but I was surprised to see the match coming later. I saw the Bray match segment. I stayed to look at Bliss and to see if Bray was gonna transform mid-match.

Cool tho. I like Randy more than those who don't but less than those who swear by him, but I had no use for him as champ. Give me more Drew. Let him work his tail off to solidify himself and then moved it move it to Miz or whoever.

Great size and look, but can really move and sell too. He's not Rock or Cena on the mic, but he's very sure of himself when talking too.
For being such a giant there's a humility there that makes him human...it matters that he's failed before and made it all the way back to the very top of the show.

He deserves big moments in front of big crowds. Imagine if he'd won the title last night in a full arena.

It’s dumb, but to be expected. Who do you cheer in Reigns vs. Orton?

Super dumb not to include NXT on Survivor Series though. They stumbled onto a winning formula last year and then reversed course this time because reasons. Not only would Balor solve the heel vs. heel issue for that match, but involving NXT was the only way the “brand supremacy” angle made any sense. These Raw and Smackdown rosters were JUST drafted. Why should they give a fuck which show has bragging rights when it’s all arbitrary?

This is just absurdly bad wrestling. Like, nothing looks the least bit believable. Throwing the stupidest looking punches I’ve ever seen and the other guy ducking them. It’s just slow, sloppy, flipping around for no reason. I hate this shit.

There is just zero psychology. The things these guys do makes absolutely zero sense. Wrestling is beyond dumb. All these guys suck.

I like physicality, selling, and pacing >>> acrobatics , speed, high spots

These gymnastics guys wrestle like complete idiots. It’s absurd. I’ll give Reigns-Drew a shot.

I want to watch wrestlers like Bret Hart - who make it look real. Am I asking too much?

the more wink wink pantomime show it all is, the less people care. which makes sense bc if tumbling clowns were popular entertainment, there would more shows about tumbling clowns.

modern "performers" and the neck beards who enable them want it to be both ways. they demand that you know its fake to excuse their lack of ability to pretend otherwise, but then they also want convoluted storylines that their terrible acting cant prop up.

i enjoy AEW for the bits of really good stuff AND the laughing at bad stuff. but laughing at bad stuff is only interesting to smart fans who can ID why its bad. everyone else just sees a stupid TV show with terrible writing, piss poor acting, limp conflicts, and excessive auto-fellatio.

and for the record, i only talk about AEW because i literally cant finish a single ep of Monday Night Raw. possibly the single worst show on basic cable TV.

With no basketball on in November like usual, I’ve tried to watch wrestling. I just usually don’t like the matches.

I know I said “Bret Hart” earlier.....it doesn’t even have to be GOAT level guys like that. I can go back on the Network and watch random Rick Martel, Ted Dibiase, etc. matches and enjoy it so much more than basically anything I see now. I just don’t like the style of the wrestling most everybody does now.

Terrible long term strategy to lean in to "exposing the business" and producing content only for people who pay for Wrestling Observer Live or something.

everything is geared towards "smart" fans and doing meta things and being self-referential. so rather than fill arenas with $20/35/50 tickets, Dynamite tickets were like $400 to sit in the front row. or they have their AEW Heels thing which for all of their community babbling, really is just about making $10 a month. and you know 95% of the paying audience subscribes to at least one wrestling patreon, probably at a high dollar amount to qualify for personal access to someone.

meanwhile, the live dynamites never drew more than 6200 fans after week 1, and a lot of people have been to more than 1. they may have sold out their allotment a few times, but theyve never sold out the building.

it will be interesting to see how they price future live dynamites when they are back in arenas. people will be itching to get out into the world, and they can either fill their arenas or raise their current prices even further for the same 4500 fans that were gonna be there regardless.

another is that we love wrestling and we wish someone would give us some

that being said i didnt have a problem with the match DJR did until the very end. Blade selling unconsciousness instead of pain after the shooting star made the submission finish seem illogical. and generally i love PAC. legit star potential.

I mean....they’ll land one move and get a minor advantage and then go run away and bounce off something to take a risk, lose the advantage, wash, rinse, repeat. Way too much illogical risk taking and back and forth for me.

It’s like A.D.D. wrestling.

>

This thread made me think about wrestling. And i even went around and watched a little more of it than I have in at least a year or so. This is great and I appreciate it.

My local IRL wrestling folks are programmed to think if it’s not WWE, it’s not worth watching. To me, it’s a sad waste. Half of wwe’s roster is re-engineered indy guys. I don’t know how folks forget this. And I’m one of those ‘more wrestling is eventually going to be better for everyone’ folks. That’s where I still stand now.

This was always going to be a problem imo. We’ve basically had 15 years of wwe being the only reliable game in the US. Impact put up some money but they were almost always the worst parts of wcw if we’re being honest. Now, folks are being coached to think the same thing of AEW. Their problems are different IMO.

IMO, WWE is never going to be caught up with. Okay, probably not in our lifetimes. If they want to run wrestling, they’re going to. Too strong. Too much money. Too many catalogs. Best production values by far. And their super Indy (nxt) is the best wrestling company in existence for my money. It’s vintage nwa with wwe’s gloss and Hbk lurking around agenting and producing. And it’s mostly guys making the best money they’ve ever made in the business sitting on the edge of making even more money. Everyone else is fucked.

So, if you can’t beat someone at their game, you should try to mix it up and try different things. That’s what these other companies are stuck with. And it’s gonna be touch and go for a while as they figure it out. All of them need tighter production on their matches to get the most out of their talent and storytelling. That’s the main problem I’m seeing with aew. That and Ross and Tony together ain’t it on commentary. Besides that, the insider stuff is gonna happen. The winks and nods to wwe are gonna happen. The missteps and seeing folks struggle to grow into the roles they’re creating for themselves? Yeah, all of that is gonna happen. But hopefully they’ll work through it and figure it out. It’s worth it to peek in from time to time and see.

This Omega thing could be fun if they advance the Hardy Expedition of Gold story and do it with Callis and Omega being shady jackasses. Omega will do the good match thing. The Bullet Club will reunite and be cool again across multiple feds. And then it comes down to whether the wwe gets bored enough to play with it too since everyone gets that it would be cool and fun in a world that could use it now. Omega vs Balor for some title is easy fun and we’re like 8 months away from it if things go right.

Loss of an absolute legend. First IC champion. Wrestler, announcer, ref, booker. Best finish man in the game. Came up with the Royal Rumble. Helped developed The Rock and too many other talented workers to name. By all accounts, a brilliant mind and class act.

>Loss of an absolute legend. First IC champion. Wrestler,
>announcer, ref, booker. Best finish man in the game. Came up
>with the Royal Rumble. Helped developed The Rock and too many
>other talented workers to name. By all accounts, a brilliant
>mind and class act.

Yep. Pat is one of those dudes. And folks need to understand how damn important having good match agents is. Wwe has a problem right now with too many of their matches being built on the same engine. But the alternative is the loosey goosey shit that most of us here don’t love about AEW, so there needs to be a compromise.

To me, NXT is about the best right now because they aren’t scared to do a clean enough finish where a badass wrestler just fucks up in some way then loses. Or think about how Kross was going around just smooth murking folks. Didn’t matter who. Didn’t matter how many big matches someone had been in or won. Fuck with Kross, get tooken out.

Nxt has been good at this almost their whole main history. Like start at Bo Dallas and go to now. Lots of folks just having good ass matches, telling good/pure rasslin stories, and then the finish is what it is. I’m partial to the Sami era but that’s just me. I love a good clean face. No sarcastic coolness. No antihero badass castrating the heels. Just a good dude trying to do the right thing and even win the right way. But no dummy and no bitch either. Love it. Seeing him fade into a broken Bret Hart mark for yourself heel is lowkey an amazing storyline still if you ask me.

Back on TNT

am I too cynical, or is something really missing here?

Moxley just can. not. have. a wrestling match.

and ive never seen Omega sell in an even mildly believable fashion

all the momentum on that show was already centered around Cody, Darby, Team Taz and now thats even hotter.

Sting shows up in the same segment as Ricky Starks and im supposed to invest in that main event?

lmao ok.

id rather watch Will Hobbs give Cody the finger while he pummels Darby Allen than literally anything Kenny Omega is even capable of.

and that Young Bucks promo. jesus christ. the absolute worst, and they should be honored to have gotten shit on by Max Castor.

in retrospect, this was all obvious. jack themselves off for a year doing fake jobs and then give themselves the belts. The YBs even go on Bleacher Report (with no disclaimer of their financial relationship) and talk about what an accomplishment it is to be champions.

you literally wrote it into a script. there is no grizzled old booker that you won over until your talent was undeniable and he made you "the guys". you booked it yourselves.

no wonder Cody has kept miles of distance away from their dumbass "storytelling".

Matt's gum chewing, forced stuttery promos are the worst.

Not sure what Sting is gonna do but I'm not gonna be a miserable and pretend I hate nostalgia.

You know, I said to my sister nefore the match, i hope Hobbs can work heel. well shit! he actually IS a fuckin heel. and good one! Team Taz is my shit. But with the arrival of the Stinger im feeling kinda conflicted.

>Matt's gum chewing, forced stuttery promos are the worst.

just...the worst lol. ive discovered that my biggest turnoff in wrestling is people acting like pro wrestlers. having watched maybe 10 hours total over the last 19 years before AEW, im shocked how commonplace it is now. either BE a pro wrestler or gtfoh plz.

>Not sure what Sting is gonna do but I'm not gonna be a
>miserable and pretend I hate nostalgia.

hes my all time favorite and ill freely admit that my viewing party all popped HOARD. almost as hard as Schiavone lmao

Because Britt baker is clearly acting like someone she thinks would be a bad ass
Or something, but literally no one does that when they talk, like ever, unless they’re acting.

With all that said, I’m watching Impact Tuesday, whether it ends up getting done right or not this is a cool as angle.

Only complaint is they still haven't figured out the camera work in the War Games matches. Better than previous years, but the production booth was cutting to the wrong angle a few times and that was super annoying.

Both War Games matches were fire and had the opposite ending of what I thought would happen. Didn't mind the results though. I've been digging Raquel lately and she should make a good challenger for Shirai.

Maybe the Kings of NXT was just a temporary thing and McAfee is leaving? Again, didn't mind the result, it came across as a thank you to the Undisputed Era for all they've done. Also they would've been 1-3 in War Games had they lost and that feels wrong. Would've liked to see Dunne win/get the pin though to set him up as the next challenger for the NXT title.

I usually hate strap matches, but it worked here. I know a lot of people have disliked the Grimes/Loomis feud but I've been entertained the whole time.

Triple threat North American title match was pretty good although having a thousand people in the scream mask is lame. Would've been fine with any of those 3 winning really. Austin Theory referencing the "It was me, Austin" line had me howling.

Thatcher/Ciampa was good although it was tough to follow the women's war games match. Took a while for me to really get into it and would've preferred Thatcher winning. The way Thatcher looked at Ciampa after with kinda horror/respect had me thinking they're gonna team up coming out of this.

and then i saw a clip of io shirai putting a garbage can on her head and jump onto the waiting arms of the conveniently placed mob below

what in the actual fuck

>and then i saw a clip of io shirai putting a garbage can on
>her head and jump onto the waiting arms of the conveniently
>placed mob below
>
>what in the actual fuck

They kept beating up shirai as she tried to enter the cage and holding the door closed, so by rule the match couldn’t start until she entered... that’s how she decided to finally make her entrance. Crowds waiting for someone to jump on them always require suspension of disbelief but whatever.

one of those girls broke her arm doing some other stupid shit in that fiasco

yet for all that danger and spectacle it still looks fake as fuck

i dont understand why anyone want want to do that, or why anyone else would let them.

Yeah. I’m gonna get to this war games. My guess is that UE is amazingly loved in the back. I assume they’re all bigtime hbk fans and he’s back there trying his ass off to position those dudes well. And all of those sons of bitches have MOTORS and can go. That’s the thing older rasslers and bookers seem to love most. When you have guys who don’t blow up easy, you can treat them like action figures damn near. Sometimes it goes a bit far and we get those 25 kickouts matches that can ruin things. But I’m old and nerdy enough to also appreciate the physical aspect of it. That alone turned me around on Adam Cole. I didn’t gaf about him before nxt but from the time he stepped in on those Johnny Wrestling matches to now, he’s won me all the way the fuck over. And yeah, I’m still horrified that he’s tiny and therefore he’s fucked if he ever shows up on raw and smackdown unless someone protects him majorly.

As it relates to going, those Flair/Steamboat matches usually stand up well to me for that reason. The pacing in some of those matches man...when they’d kick it up a notch? Shiiiiiiiiiiid. Then seeing Eddy, Benoit, and that crew try to elevate that with heavier offense but keeping the same speed and crispness AND the free flowing/make it seem real without just slanging potatoes part of it? Yeah. Very good.

I wonder how many current wrestling fans have truly seen the All Japan 90s heyday matches. I think even I need to revisit them. I assume I’d see too many potatoes but ridiculous physical effort and some badass storytelling. it’s been a while. But I know seeing it early 2000s turned me all the way out. Had me paying 80 bucks for Virtua Pro wrestling 2. The thing I remember most is all the main guys having a submission and a ‘hey, quit kicking out, you bitch’ 2nd finisher. That and the limb damage psychology was heavyhanded and dope. Shit, maybe aew needs to watch these all Japan matches.

>Only complaint is they still haven't figured out the camera
>work in the War Games matches. Better than previous years, but
>the production booth was cutting to the wrong angle a few
>times and that was super annoying.
>
>Both War Games matches were fire and had the opposite ending
>of what I thought would happen. Didn't mind the results
>though. I've been digging Raquel lately and she should make a
>good challenger for Shirai.
>
>Maybe the Kings of NXT was just a temporary thing and McAfee
>is leaving? Again, didn't mind the result, it came across as a
>thank you to the Undisputed Era for all they've done. Also
>they would've been 1-3 in War Games had they lost and that
>feels wrong. Would've liked to see Dunne win/get the pin
>though to set him up as the next challenger for the NXT title.
>
>
>I usually hate strap matches, but it worked here. I know a lot
>of people have disliked the Grimes/Loomis feud but I've been
>entertained the whole time.
>
>Triple threat North American title match was pretty good
>although having a thousand people in the scream mask is lame.
>Would've been fine with any of those 3 winning really. Austin
>Theory referencing the "It was me, Austin" line had me
>howling.
>
>Thatcher/Ciampa was good although it was tough to follow the
>women's war games match. Took a while for me to really get
>into it and would've preferred Thatcher winning. The way
>Thatcher looked at Ciampa after with kinda horror/respect had
>me thinking they're gonna team up coming out of this.

That’s what got them to finally give Punk a little bit of a run, in spite of themselves.

and this shit is wildly oscillating between matches that are rather good (finishes in particular) and invisible camera skits that are just fucking atrocious

someone got caught flush with a clothesline and it actually turned into a pin. another ended with one piledriver, and another with a single springboard 450 splash off the rope. that was by far the highest spot of the whole show. every single match made sense.

the acting though, it would be mild to call it putrid. not one segment added anything to the show, and im pretty sure i heard someone say something about attempted murder? just terrible all the way around.

no charisma, no wit, no believability, no presence, no chance of getting over in this country to anyone other than neckbeard marks for themselves

this loser just had THE worst segment of the whole show. no one talks like that, and championship athletes dont act like that. who finds this compelling, other than feeling compelled to watch something else?

his 3 month "climb" to the title has been corny and now the three worst wrestlers in AEW have booked themselves to be champs after sucking their own dicks for a year.

oh and tony khan got ike a full 2 minutes to ramble and play the patronizing rich guy role, and is now a TV character. sweet.

Its not that hard to research.

getting promo lessons from Princess Lolly in preparation for his big match against Lord Licorice

because his was the only actual promo if i remember correctly. everything else was skits, and only Tommy Dreamer was able to come off believable out of all of them

i also loved Impact burying their own champion by having him go unrecognized and turned away by some fat slob security member. good job guys lmao.

Oh! i also loved them putting out their own undead woman character that can actually work. seemed like a direct shot at AEWs zombie chick who can't. that was really the only shot taken, but it was a good one.

Last night, yes, him and Callis were the only voices that mattered.

That murder/dreamer segment was cringe.

Impact had to have there most viewers ever and it doenst feel like they took advantage properly.

but everything else was garbage

so i really did hear someone talking about murder. jfc lol.

i was referring specifically to dreamer's talk with that "suit" (who was also terrible)

but the wrestling was good! TJP, Myers, Chris Sabin (Alex Shelley - SHAMROCKS!)...good work, refreshingly logical finishes, etc.

---

and yeah he is unfortunately a better promo than most of his wrestlers. Moxley, Cody, Starks, FTR, Kaz, Britt Baker....and uh...yeah thats about it.

>and this shit is wildly oscillating between matches that are
>rather good (finishes in particular) and invisible camera
>skits that are just fucking atrocious
>
>someone got caught flush with a clothesline and it actually
>turned into a pin. another ended with one piledriver, and
>another with a single springboard 450 splash off the rope.
>that was by far the highest spot of the whole show. every
>single match made sense.
>
>the acting though, it would be mild to call it putrid. not
>one segment added anything to the show, and im pretty sure i
>heard someone say something about attempted murder? just
>terrible all the way around.

I dropped out of TNA around the time Matt Hardy left. They've had a lot of changes since then. My understanding is that the wrestling is usually decent but everything else varies wildly. They basically had all of Lucha Underground with them for a while so that was probably more good rasslin.

But I'm at the point now where I'm more apt to watch a rasslin documentary or interview than to watch 2 or 3 weekly shows of the same company back to back. I think I've seen every trick a wrestling show can pull and I just want to see a good match or two every now and then. Maybe it's just 2020 and I don't have enough energy to take in fake dramatics? Or maybe the shows are so doggone inefficient at getting to the point that I can't seem to make it 'feel like' its 'worth my time'? I don't know.

because its painfully obvious that the vast majority of people are doing characters on a TV show centered around the vague notion of pro wrestling, rather than competing in televised wrestling matches.

its all soooooooo fake. and then the worked nature of wrestling is used to excuse terrible television, so it becomes a snake eating its own tail.

i know Thor isnt real, but does that mean i want to see Idris Elba and Chris Hemsworth laughing and doing inside jokes about Hollywood during a scene?

This is horrible, dude left behind two young kids and a wife. Not sure how he passed but it was announced by AEW.

His wife and AEW are saying that it was non COVID related lung issues. He was getting treated at the Mayo Clinic.

>This is horrible, dude left behind two young kids and a wife.
> Not sure how he passed but it was announced by AEW.
>
>

Well, this sucks. Stay the fuck alive and safe yawl. And watch some 90s All Japan. It’s good shit.

I hate this as a fan of his, but even more as a human being.

He will be sorely missed.

This is really sweet. And obviously sad. Everyone talks about how Lee was absolutely devoted to his kids.

www.ringsidenews.com/2020/12/19/kenny-omega-lost-aew-world-title-after-holiday-bash-taping/

I remember writing out an idea for Luke taking over the character.

If I remember correctly, I don't thi k I was alone in thinking he could pu ot off. I don't even think I was the one who picked him initially.

Anyhow, it just reminds me how these guys go out there and capture our imaginations in ways that "real" actors don't quite do.

I think there's a level of intimacy in the wrestler/fan dynamic that's truly unique. It's one thing to chop it up about nba players, how they fit on a team or whatever, but a pro wrestler is a blank canvas. These guys can literally be someone else entirely, and you can connect with them many times over, in different ways and for different reasons.

And Brodie Lee was truly one of those guys. So muc was said about his potential while he was Luke Harper. There was so mu h said about what kind of monster he could be. Even his AEW name played off of the obvious comparisons to Bruiser Brody.

Brodie Lee, as leader of The Dark Order, certainly drew mixed reactions. Even then, he took a respectable creative risk by giving us a character that was left of center to most of our pprojections.But he was still so young, with plenty of years to tweak and adjust, until he hopefully hit on just the right gimmick.

The look was there. The skillset was there. He remained a canvas with intriguing possibilities.

I definitely don't want to pretend he was some maammoth, mainstream main eventer. But was still a guy who jump started our own creative visions as fans, and from what I've seen, he was guy most people wanted to see win in this industry.

This is definitely a painful loss. He will be missed.

He certainly wasn't the first attempt by another company to mock Vince, but I thought he did a great job with it. He ended up being one of my favorite things in the ring this year. Him squashing Cody and beating the shit out of his entire stable/family was great TV and was a good move to take him to the next level. His sequent chain match with Cody was also really good. And he could funny as hell while doing the character. Him mocking Cody and "that godforsaken neck tattoo" was one of the most hilarious things I heard all year.

Yeah, the Dark Order angle was so-so lately, but it seemed like they were setting something up for it to be pretty big again. I figured like they were getting ready to bring Brodie and furious at what the Dark Order had become. Then split the group with Silver, Reynolds, and Colt Cabana going with Hangman Page, and the rest staying with Lee. That would have been good. And now it'll never happen.

He was so good he almost pushed himself into a Mania title match but Vince put the kibosh on that. Been following all the stories about him on Twitter and he seemed like he was a really great guy and very encouraging of all his colleagues. This really sucks.

and then to know that Vince didn't like him. Vince is such a fuck man

From a locker room standpoint.

Further, I struggle thinking of a guy who was that universally well liked within the industry, whom fans nearly universally liked as well, who wasn't a top guy.

The only guy I can think of is Taker, and he broke the "top guy" mold in a way that makes it damn near impossible for us to see ever again.

Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, Cena. There's a Mt Rushmore's worth of guys like that. Taker broke that mold in a way those guys can't touch, even while being bigger marquees.

I'm getting off topic here, but looking at how universally liked Jon Huber was backstage, how deeply so many fans were still behind him despite the way WWE booked him, I don't know that that that's common.

I think it's pretty clear that Vince missed a significant boat there, because that man knew how to get over on all sides.

Vince can suck a thousand dicks, for all the careers he toys with.

>From a locker room standpoint.
>
>Further, I struggle thinking of a guy who was that universally
>well liked within the industry, whom fans nearly universally
>liked as well, who wasn't a top guy.
>
>The only guy I can think of is Taker, and he broke the "top
>guy" mold in a way that makes it damn near impossible for us
>to see ever again.
>
>Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, Cena. There's a Mt Rushmore's
>worth of guys like that. Taker broke that mold in a way those
>guys can't touch, even while being bigger marquees.
>
>I'm getting off topic here, but looking at how universally
>liked Jon Huber was backstage, how deeply so many fans were
>still behind him despite the way WWE booked him, I don't know
>that that that's common.
>
>I think it's pretty clear that Vince missed a significant boat
>there, because that man knew how to get over on all sides.
>
>Vince can suck a thousand dicks, for all the careers he toys
>with.

Taker is a curious case. I’m of the opinion that he had been booked like a voodoo hogan in a bad way for years and was about to be screwed before Hell in a Cell placed him in a dramatically different light and, in my opinion, saved his career and put him on a different trajectory. Then, the streak became a thing and the days of Taker/Giant Gonzalez were over with. Then the Mania matches with HBK cemented it and everything else was various icing and other cake toppings. Some loved. Some not.

As for Vince fucking up and underachieving with hella dudes, of course and yes. So many of these dudes were signed to mess up the company they left more than help the guy. And also, all of these old dude podcasts yell out to me in no uncertain terms that Vince, NWA/WCW, and the other Murrican feds were stumbling, bumbling, and falling into great shit on a regular. And so many of the successes are riddled with screwed pooches too. Or crossroad moments where someone barely stopped silliness from happening. Or other forces intervened (ie: HBK’s back being fucked up changed wrestling history. Imagine if he was healthy in the late 90s!? How much stuff could he have ruined?).

Imagine WWE if the steroid stuff didn't happen in the early 90s.

How much longer would 'Hulk wins and fuck yo finisher LOL' have been the storyline without that trial? Or even if they would have moved HH along for someone younger/cheaper, it probably would have been another huge guy who could show up on-time and act right. Would we have gotten to the era of Bret and Shawn trying to turn the main title into the 'let's work some damn good matches..I'm tired of seeing how good those All Japan matches are compared to ours' title? Hell, would that Flair title run even been a thing?

And shiiiid, Bret is the bridge to Austin in my rasslin history book. And their mania 13 match stopped that show from being way down there on the list. And it wasn't even for the title based on smile loss, movie making, and all of that. Is it plausible that Austin would have been stuck in ECW or as the IC title 'good hand'/Mr. Perfect/Steamboat type of guy instead of ending up on the Rushmore of dudes who were 'everyone makes more money because I'm here' over?

I wish something would come up to make Vince stumble into something big for Cesaro, but I don't see it happening. In my mind, he is totally wasting away along with goddamn Shinsuke Nakamura. I know Nak can be like a much lazier Flair at his worst, but c'mon. If they would've gone all in on him, he could've been a bridge to younger stud Japan dudes coming over. As it stands, I can't see them getting any more major Japan dudes in the short term. If so, it's gonna be another older guy who wants an easier style to work.

>From a locker room standpoint.
>
>Further, I struggle thinking of a guy who was that universally
>well liked within the industry, whom fans nearly universally
>liked as well, who wasn't a top guy.
>
>The only guy I can think of is Taker, and he broke the "top
>guy" mold in a way that makes it damn near impossible for us
>to see ever again.
>
>Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock, Cena. There's a Mt Rushmore's
>worth of guys like that. Taker broke that mold in a way those
>guys can't touch, even while being bigger marquees.
>
>I'm getting off topic here, but looking at how universally
>liked Jon Huber was backstage, how deeply so many fans were
>still behind him despite the way WWE booked him, I don't know
>that that that's common.
>
>I think it's pretty clear that Vince missed a significant boat
>there, because that man knew how to get over on all sides.
>
>Vince can suck a thousand dicks, for all the careers he toys
>with.

https://www.pwtorch.com/site/2020/12/29/editors-note-concerning-a-published-column-regarding-the-death-of-jon-huber/

I liked Bruce from a podcast standpoint, particularly since he often provided a progressive view. Sometimes, as a progressive humanist myself, I thought some of those views were flawed or off base, but generally speaking he came from a good place.

He had no such standing in his Torch article. There was no justification for what he did, and what he did in my view was a gross act of journalistic negligence.
 
Because I liked Bruce, I checked his twitter to see if he would recent. He did not, and was on fact without an ounce of contrition, in his words standing by every word of what he said.

Because I'm a big fan of Wade's journalistic approach to the industry, and a long time subscriber, I checked the Torch for further commentary on this. 

Unfortunately, as someone who liked Bruce, and fortunately, as someone who likes Wade and the Torch, Wade made the doubtless difficult decision to part ways with a long time contributor and friend.

Good on Wade. To the cynics, I don't see this as a CYA move either.

This is consistent with what I've come to see as a high standard of journalism from Wade Keller. There's a reason you never hear him dragged the way Meltzer does. Not throwing him a parade either, because this was the clear move, but it was no doubt a difficult decision for him.

This type of stuff along with the constant barrage of complaints from the IWC feeds strongly into the tag lines about the IWC often being bad for rasslin as a whole.

The exceptions are the parade of cool ass YouTube vids and documentaries about old wrestling years and feuds. I found a dude basically doing video book reports about All Japan’s 90s era a few weeks back. GOOD FUCKING TIMES! And he’s done several more recent recaps too. I’m gonna be all up on those too. And I’ll survive even when he goes a little too nerdy.

The good news is that AEW put their best foot forward on the Huber tribute show and it was good times overall.

And like we’ve been saying, it’s great to see what it looks like when a person is well-liked. We’re constantly pushed around by discussions surrounding unliked people so I appreciate the contrast even if I hate the circumstances. My last few years has had far too many funerals in them.

>https://www.pwtorch.com/site/2020/12/29/editors-note-concerning-a-published-column-regarding-the-death-of-jon-huber/
>
>I liked Bruce from a podcast standpoint, particularly since he
>often provided a progressive view. Sometimes, as a progressive
>humanist myself, I thought some of those views were flawed or
>off base, but generally speaking he came from a good place.
>
>He had no such standing in his Torch article. There was no
>justification for what he did, and what he did in my view was
>a gross act of journalistic negligence.
> 
>Because I liked Bruce, I checked his twitter to see if he
>would recent. He did not, and was on fact without an ounce of
>contrition, in his words standing by every word of what he
>said.
>
>Because I'm a big fan of Wade's journalistic approach to the
>industry, and a long time subscriber, I checked the Torch for
>further commentary on this. 
>
>Unfortunately, as someone who liked Bruce, and fortunately, as
>someone who likes Wade and the Torch, Wade made the doubtless
>difficult decision to part ways with a long time contributor
>and friend.
>
>Good on Wade. To the cynics, I don't see this as a CYA move
>either.
>
>This is consistent with what I've come to see as a high
>standard of journalism from Wade Keller. There's a reason you
>never hear him dragged the way Meltzer does. Not throwing him
>a parade either, because this was the clear move, but it was
>no doubt a difficult decision for him.

https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/amanda-huber-responds-criticism-regarding-details-brodie-lee-s-death

Brodie Lee's wife Amanda Huber is responding to those asking for more transparency regarding the surroundings of her husband's sudden passing.

When Brodie Lee passed away suddenly on Saturday, December 26, 2020, the suddenness of his passing caught many off guard. In her initial post about her husband's tragic passing, Amanda Huber stated that Brodie Lee had spent time in the Mayo Clinic battling a lung illness that was not related to COVID-19.
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Fightful previously reported that AEW staff had known of Brodie's condition as far back as early November but respected his family's privacy and never disclosed the illness.

Now, Amanda Huber has once again taken to social media posting a long response in her Instagram story, later tweeted out by Cash Wheeler, to those asking for more “transparency” from her. In her statement, she reveals that Brodie was tested multiple times for COVID-19 and each test came back negative. She would say that there is no shame in dying as a result of the disease that has caused a global pandemic but that is simply not what happened to her husband and she feels she has been left without answers to give.

Imagine being 17 and spending a night chatting with a mutual friend. Then realizing that they were "the one."

You spend 7 years in an on-again/ off-again relationship only to break up. Then you give it one last shot. One last try. You start therapy and really push each other to become better people. You date some more. Navigate some crazy life curveballs. You find out you're having a baby boy the day he is downsized. Then an injury in the sport they love. But you fight thru that. You get married and have the most beautiful little boy. That day you find out they got their dream job. The job they never in a million years thought they'd get.

You give up everything to watch them chase that dream. It pays off and that world becomes everything. It gives you both everything you've ever dreamed of. You go on to build your dream life with another perfect little boy, 2 crazy dogs, and 5 cats. They get an opportunity to really bet on themselves and you watch them shine like never before.

Life is SO good.

Then suddenly one day that person gets sick. Each day they get sicker and sicker. You know how much they value their privacy so you ask those helping you to keep it quiet out of respect for them. You watch helplessly as they get worst a worst. COVID test, after COVID test, after COVID test, come back negative. You almost pray for a positive one because it would be some kind of answer. You never get one.

Suddenly they are gone.

You have to try to figure out how to imagine your future now.

Then you read a "journalist" demanding "transparency" and insinuates you're hiding something. That it's some type of cover-up. Something more so sinister. That you aren't serving his memory best by not offering up information you're still trying to process. As if his death was a public health hazard. It wasn't. It was a tragedy.

There's no cover-up. There's no conspiracy. There was just a series of unfortunate events that ended in your world being crushed.

What kind of position does that put you in? When you're trying to grieve and people practically expect you to post medical records because since they were a public figure, they are entitled to all the knowledge of what happened.

It wasn't COVID. There's no shame in dying from COVID but it's not what it was.

You have no answers and you're just left there.

Can you just fuckin imagine that?

2am EST. You know the link.

I'll possibly be streaming Night 1 the next day as well at a more reasonable time.

You already know how to watch it.

Night 1 was great, lets see if tonight can top it.

>You already know how to watch it.
>
>Night 1 was great, lets see if tonight can top it.

This Jay White thing could get interesting, yes? Maybe even if it is all for show.

Also, I keep hearing that Tanahashi is retiring? And Okada is getting hate for having same thing every time matches?

>
>Also, I keep hearing that Tanahashi is retiring?

Wouldn’t surprise me, or at least a hiatus, but I feel like he’ll stick around for the big shows for a few more years. It’s become pretty clear since his brief title run a couple years ago that he’s become a gatekeeper for the younger talent. His body is pretty beat up so idk how many more G1 tourneys he can handle

And Okada is
>getting hate for having same thing every time matches?

I haven’t seen that but somewhat understand the complaint. I’m a bit of an Okada Mark so it doesn’t bother me at all. I think in a similar way to Cena there are gonna be people who dislike his style but they can’t deny that he makes anything he touches feel major. Only complaint I have is that the money clip looks like shit and I’m not sure why I should care about it as a finisher. It’s really reliant on the opponent making it look good (props to Shingo for making it look like his head was gonna pop off during their G1 match).

For my money, the main All Japan dudes and/or Baba's King's Road booking were geniuses to try to get a submission over as a part of their offenses. They were less genius to keep adding new and more damaging ways to almost drop each other on their heads for 30 minutes every night.

On that, I'm still partial to Dr. Death's disrespectful-looking german suplexes..and my AJPW viewings in December made it clear to me all over again: dude was a damn hoss. To me, he was borderline Brock before Brock. And bonus, he had his working boots glued onto his person so he was rarely just on the spam and chill plan that Brock runs with lately. Even in tag matches, he was balls to the wall and constant offense and power.

But yeah, it makes sense that Okada would have to come up with some kind of submission. The one he rolled with is pretty icky tho. It'll be fine.

>>
>>Also, I keep hearing that Tanahashi is retiring?
>
>Wouldn’t surprise me, or at least a hiatus, but I feel like
>he’ll stick around for the big shows for a few more years.
>It’s become pretty clear since his brief title run a couple
>years ago that he’s become a gatekeeper for the younger
>talent. His body is pretty beat up so idk how many more G1
>tourneys he can handle
>
>And Okada is
>>getting hate for having same thing every time matches?
>
>I haven’t seen that but somewhat understand the complaint.
>I’m a bit of an Okada Mark so it doesn’t bother me at all.
>I think in a similar way to Cena there are gonna be people who
>dislike his style but they can’t deny that he makes anything
>he touches feel major. Only complaint I have is that the money
>clip looks like shit and I’m not sure why I should care
>about it as a finisher. It’s really reliant on the opponent
>making it look good (props to Shingo for making it look like
>his head was gonna pop off during their G1 match).

more so in AEW than WWE, and i guess WWE recently remembered that Shelton Benjamin exists

but yeah. i miss that style big time. i actually got into "real wrestling" because of pro wrestling, and i think thats a major source of my disconnect with modern stuff.

regarding Doc, i recently learned that he wrestled John Tenta (LSU) in college. i want to see that reeeeeeal bad.

I’ve always been all in but for her to be holding up like she is now is real good. And she tore an acl 2 years ago. Crazy.

>The fall season is right here and we have some big cards
>coming up starting with All Out on September 5th. In NJPW we
>have the G1 Climax Tournament that's starting later than usual
>this year and is always a banger. WWE we have Survivor Series
>which I'm sure will be another mix between Raw, Smackdown, and
>NXT. Even though Wrestle Kingdom is right after the new year
>(January 4th) that always feels like an end of the year show.
>
>Any predictions?
>
>Who's the best performer so far this year?
>Best storyline in wrestleing?
>Anyone due for a title shot?
>
>Trying to build a watch along group for most shows. We
>already do AEW every Wednesday and all the PPVS. As always
>the link is https://s.kast.live/g/8lf7lrmxzl and we'll be
>kicking off with the All Out PPV this weekend

watch

>watch

I want this now that you’ve planted the seed (HUH!).

Crazily enough, I went to last year’s royal rumble. And fuck yeah it was loud when edge came out. Bad news, we saw him in a suite or something before the rumble so the thought that he could come out for something was there.

The age of Ibushi is here. Is there a better babyface on the planet? His facial expressions completely wrap me up in the story. When he finally realized he had defeated Naito his face was priceless. White being on the opposite end of that a day later was great too. I enjoyed both matches and Kota deserved his crowning moment.

A couple really good shows that fixed some of the hiccups of 2020. The lineups weren’t as thin as I had feared, but there was definitely some fat that coulda been trimmed though. I don’t see the appeal of Great O Khan. That’s a waste of a Tanahashi match imo, especially when guys like Suzuki and Ishii aren’t on the card.

Some highlights:

Big fan of both junior heavyweight singles matches. Hiromu is always very entertaining and I hope he and Phantasmo continue to feud.

Shingo-Cobb was awesome

I may be the only one, but I love this goofy ass KOPW shit. It was a mess as always, but it’s a perfect use for Toru Yano.

I'll get to the big matches at least eventually. Been working a bit more than I want this week. I just saw that Snoop did a splash on AEW. Ridiculous!

>The age of Ibushi is here. Is there a better babyface on the
>planet? His facial expressions completely wrap me up in the
>story. When he finally realized he had defeated Naito his face
>was priceless. White being on the opposite end of that a day
>later was great too. I enjoyed both matches and Kota deserved
>his crowning moment.
>
>A couple really good shows that fixed some of the hiccups of
>2020. The lineups weren’t as thin as I had feared, but there
>was definitely some fat that coulda been trimmed though. I
>don’t see the appeal of Great O Khan. That’s a waste of a
>Tanahashi match imo, especially when guys like Suzuki and
>Ishii aren’t on the card.
>
>Some highlights:
>
>Big fan of both junior heavyweight singles matches. Hiromu is
>always very entertaining and I hope he and Phantasmo continue
>to feud.
>
>Shingo-Cobb was awesome
>
>I may be the only one, but I love this goofy ass KOPW shit. It
>was a mess as always, but it’s a perfect use for Toru Yano.

>I'll get to the big matches at least eventually. Been working
>a bit more than I want this week. I just saw that Snoop did a
>splash on AEW. Ridiculous!
>

It was like if a straw man filled with potatoes did a splash, it was hilarious.

guess its smackdown only for a lil bit

and it was dumb enough to get me to watch Raw for a few minutes, so I’m part of the problem. Now I shall go back to not watching Raw or SD till the go-home to Mania.