Haven't seen one of these in awhile so figured I'd start a new one since we're heading into the Royal Rumble to Wrestlemania season.

Kicking off the year on January 4th and 5th is the first ever two day Wrestle Kingdom event that will crown the first ever double champion (IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental).

Chris Jericho vs. Tanahashi, if Tana wins he gets to challenge for the AEW World Title. If AEW and NJPW form a working relationship this will be one of the biggest things that has happened in wrestling in some time.

Who do we have for Rumble winner this year?

What y'all been watching?

I've been more AEW lately. With the exception of the Kofi/Miz match everything fell flat. Something seemed off. I think I'm just more into going to a live Raw show than SD.

I got KO and Banks as the Rumble winners

Last Raw and Smackdowns I've been to it felt way over produced. People would be in the middle of an entrance when they cut to commercial and they stood there halfway to the ring until they came back and continued their entrance, it was weird.

That plus the prices compared to other companies. I was ringside for AEW ppv for hundreds cheaper than a Raw or Smackdown.

.

Going to AEW next Wednesday, then an NXT house show on the 23rd. Think I'd have my fill of live events for the next few months lol

I’ve done NXT and AEW and it’s a far better paced experience.

It was painful to get through.

They restarted the 3 way match 3 different times.

Commercials every 5 seconds.

Carmellas intro had to have played for 8 minutes straight.

Just a drag.

As always I'll be streaming the show live at its start time tonight at 12am EST.

You can watch live here: https://s.kast.gg/g/8lf7lrmxzl


Night was was fantastic, but those last 3 matches. Good God they're already instant classics and we're just into the new year. Do yourself a favor and check out the Junior IWGP, Intercontinental, and IWGP Heavyweight title matches. I was out of my seat in the living room losing my shit early in the AM.

>Do yourself a favor and check out the Junior IWGP,
>Intercontinental, and IWGP Heavyweight title matches. I was
>out of my seat in the living room losing my shit early in the
>AM.

I woke up early and watched it live about an hour into the main card so I saw everything after the end of the Bullet Club vs. CHAOS four-on-four match.

I liked the US Championship match also (more than the Intercontinental match) but the Junior Heavyweight and Heavyweight title bouts were incredible. THAT sequence in the Takahashi-Ospreay fight was...something. And I love that killer persona that comes out of Ibushi sometimes.

i'd like them to fast track Rhea Ripley but we'll see

You're getting national exposure on NXT. You don't have to deal with Kreative. You don't have anywhere near the travel schedule (even if your NXT/NXT UK). You get to wrestle matches that go longer than 7 minutes. I mean, yeah, you'e not going to work Mania from NXT, unless you're in the Dre. But yeah, Rhea can work wars with Shirai and get the same sort of acclaim. Or she can be put in weird segments with fucking Natalya.

Him and Otis would have a worm-off weekly.

Cesaro was the NXT Final Boss. Main roster, he's getting his nipples roasted by Cena.

Sami gets to be ultimate babyface in NXT. Epic 2 out of 3 vs. Cesaro. The match vs. Neville. Nak's best WWE match. Now? he's a manager in a company that doesn't like managers.

Particularly for those getting on the Mania card, and getting decent matches on the other big PPVs?

I know the NXT wrestlers got a good look at Survivor Series, but it’s not going to be like that for all the PPVs is it?

I imagine the initial NXT deals are lower. But idk that Balor would have “dropped down” if it meant a significant pay cut. Especially now that they’re on cable and not network-only.

WOW

Just wow

That main event was one of the best things I've seen in a very long time. The storytelling in that match was incredible. It's only January 5th and they raised that bar so high I'll be interested in seeing if anything else this year can top that.

A great couple nights that played out mostly how I expected but still kept me VERY entertained. I was a little nervous about how 2 nights would work, but now it's pretty clear it was necessary (and is BEYOND necessary for Mania). Would've preferred a singles match to end Jushin's career, but that's a nitpick. NJPW is still killing the entire game. Not even possible to compare anything else to it.

i dead ass watched another hour of this shit just to see who it was, and i was actually excited to see who it might be, and then

"WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL-*turns off TV*

Feel like it's been at least a year since Big Show has been around so that may have helped a bit.

>"WELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL-*turns off TV*

I didn't realize how good fucking Magnus has gotten at this, but man is he an excellent top delusional heel. The commentary has only gotten better now that Stu Bennett is in the chair. Dave Marquez is the best damn interview guy going. And Aron Stevens . . excuse me, Shooter Stevens and the Question Mark are DELIGHTFUL.

BUT YOU LOOK AT BIG POPPA PUMP AND THE BIG SHOW AND YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE.

So good.

Looks like there will be some cross promoting with ROH and NWA.

WOOF.

And keep getting upset at what they're doing, it's completely their fault.

I freed up my Monday and Tuesday nights and really only pay attention to NXT when it comes to their product.

AEW has entertained me far more and I'm actually invested in the story and matches.

I forgot all about Smackdowns move to Friday nights.

At this point I've enjoyed Impact more.

but I canceled my Network subscription some time ago. I put Smackdown on if I'm at home but I don't even bother watching the Raw and Smackdown recap videos anymore.

I wish NXT was on a different night though so I could watch it live; I just can't do full program replays when I already know what the results are.

>but I canceled my Network subscription some time ago. I put
>Smackdown on if I'm at home but I don't even bother watching
>the Raw and Smackdown recap videos anymore.
>
>I wish NXT was on a different night though so I could watch it
>live; I just can't do full program replays when I already know
>what the results are.

I hate that Wyatt had to go out like this but some OP legend was basically the only way to have him lose a 1 on 1 deal after they booked him into a ridiculous no-sell corner. We’d be more annoyed if he got speared and jump punched to death by Reigns prolly. And now we get another Reigns title match. But at least this time the crowd will want him to win.

I rarely see much Raw. I don’t auto-record it anymore. I see enough to love the Street Profits and heel Rollins. I just don’t fuck with 3-hour Raws. They’re almost always stretching out a 2 hour show. It’s brutal. I occasionally ffwd through SD. I wish I liked it more cuz of some of the folks on the show but I don’t. I’ll usually catch a vid of whatever Bray is doing cuz it’s great work. I wish they would’ve let Matt Hardy have that type of title run. He would’ve been deleting folks and being ridiculous. And just like Bray, most of the matches would’ve ‘sucked’ but the character work would’ve been bang up.

I really like NXT. It’s surprising cuz I don’t have much deep love for most of the indy guys they have running wild there. I was never a big Adam Cole guy for instance. I remember seeing Gargano at an indy show on Mania Dallas weekend and I’m biased towards him now cuz he’s my new Sami Zayn. Now damn near everyone on that Indy card has been in WWE at some point. Even Ibushi!

I love Keith Lee and Velveteen Dream. I hope they both have 15 great high profile years at least.

I lust after Toni Storm but that’s not special since all of the shows have a diverse array of attractive ladies who mostly can work good matches. It’s a golden age for women’s rasslin TALENT. They just need a little booking help.

I also like Dynamite enough to keep up with it but I’m very much tempering my expectations/allowing them to work through their kinks without freaking out when JR screws pooch on another name or something clunky happens. I think they have their nerdy rasslin hearts in the right place and that’s all I need sometimes. And that roster is coming along nicely. I’m excited for their future.

>And now we get another Reigns title match. But
>at least this time the crowd will want him to win.

Goldberg is still very over with the live crowds. I don't see Reigns getting a good reaction to beating Goldberg unless they somehow find a way to make him a heel before Wrestlemania but I have no idea how unless they do some half-assed retread of Brock vs. Rollins.

I've some really roundabout theories to eventually get the belt onto Roman: Cena beats Goldberg at Wrestlemania, the Fiend beats Cena, Roman beats the Fiend. I could actually see that happening but that's a lot of title changes for the top belt.

Yes, at this point its even better than NXT, and I really enjoy NXT.

I’m with you. Wednesday is my wrestling day and then I catch up with New Japan sporadically.

>
>AEW has entertained me far more and I'm actually invested in
>the story and matches.

The last few weeks have been incredible. Revolution looks like an awesome card.

We canceled those plans after this fuckery.

Big PPV tomorrow

Who y'all got?

As always I'll be streaming live at https://s.kast.live/g/8lf7lrmxzl

I set it to private so I'll have to accept anyone that joins, join ahead of time if you want to avoid me having to accept you once the ppv starts.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Moxley wins, but they’re still building up the Inner Circle as unconquerable and the other 2 titles JUST switched hands (plus I think the tag belts are switching again here).

I also think it’s gotta be Kenny or Cody who eventually take down Jericho. As great as Moxley is, and as different as he is from the Dean Ambrose character, making 2 former WWE guys your first 2 champs isn’t the best look.

MJF is gonna be a mega heel (shit, he is already) so he goes over.

Nyla’s probably gonna keep the title for a while.

My boy Darby’s going over. No doubt. Do Pandas even know what skateboards are? I doubt it.

Hager is definitely winning, but as the We Watch Wrestling guys said, it’s just amazing they found a way to get us excited about Goldust vs. Jack Swagger. I’m sure they’ve wrestled on Smackdown a few years ago and I just stared at my phone the whole time.

Oh yeah, Orange Cassidy is gonna have a match! I almost forgot. He ain’t gonna win unless it’s a fluky roll-up situation, but after he does his shtick he’ll turn it up and really impress.

Dynamite has been so goddamn good lately. I’m really excited for this.

he’s a completely different entity. The main source of his popularity no longer comes from his time in WWE (and you can kinda argue the same for Jericho), that’s not true for Moxley yet.

He’s insanely over, exciting, unique, and he’s their guy. He’s already got beef with Jericho and his crew. Have him work his way up and eventually win the title over the course of the next 6 months or so.

...

Good God Almighty! - J.R.

for more Kenny and the Bucks, and less K!E!N!N!Y! AND THE B!U!C!K!S!

with the nonsense turned down and the believable intensity turned up, they all finally made me see what any of the hype was about

also, i think the crowds are legit turning on the Bucks. they should lean into that hard. punchable faces will only ever be so popular among a mainstream audience lol

The mfer can GO!

Could say he made Pac a bigger heel. That is a very valuable commodity they have and can exploit.

Hes not just a jobber getting squashed that the crowd ironically adores, he can actually wrestle, has a gimmick that will make the cornettes pissed and can get guys over.

i just dont know why i should care

It’s the kind of hokey stuff that WWE would get crushed for.

There's been a real arc with OC.

His Revolution performance was a watershed moment looking back, when bookended with a All In. Its pretty clear he can go, and it's a perfect example of comedy done right and well in wrestling.

It's creative and he's found a way to work that trick to great effect, over a long stretch of time.

Conversely, WWE had Otis just being a weirdo bumpkin, a greasy fat guy who does the worm and gets The Hot Girl.

Meanwhile, OC had a compelling match with a quality story with PAC, and threw in a picture perfect superman punch out of nowhere.

There are so many differences from the way this is executed creatively and the sort of shit WWE gets raked over the coals for.

It's a lazy comparison IMO.

His detractors think he ruins kayfabe but I think it's kinda the opposite. The suspension of disbelief is really the most important part of kayfabe and it can be the most fun. There's limits, of course, but the Cornettes of the world seem to forget we all gladly suspended disbelief so we could enjoy an undead wizard in the NINETIES.

I'm sure you've all heard the "Isn't that fake?" question and I kinda say "It's scripted, but who cares? It's fun!" I understand why he's not everyone's cup of tea, and I do think his character will have to evolve at some point just like anyone else, but goddamn he's a blast to watch.

>His detractors think he ruins kayfabe but I think it's kinda
>the opposite. The suspension of disbelief is really the most
>important part of kayfabe and it can be the most fun. There's
>limits, of course, but the Cornettes of the world seem to
>forget we all gladly suspended disbelief so we could enjoy an
>undead wizard in the NINETIES.
>
>I'm sure you've all heard the "Isn't that fake?" question and
>I kinda say "It's scripted, but who cares? It's fun!" I
>understand why he's not everyone's cup of tea, and I do think
>his character will have to evolve at some point just like
>anyone else, but goddamn he's a blast to watch.

I think that match had everything- the fun, the comedy, the drama, the athleticism, the crowd connection, Pac's brutality, all wrapped in something that is clearly for show.

IMO that match is the perfect microcosm of everything that makes pro wrestling, at it's best, a special brand of entertainment.

https://twitter.com/meredithbellpb/status/1221825425636233217?s=19

Both are free.

AAA 8pm EST
https://www.twitch.tv/luchalibreaaa_en
AAA English stream

Stardom 9:30pm EST
https://www.youtube.com/user/2010stardom
Stardom stream
Tonight will be in an empty area due to the big virus scare but if you've never watched Startdom before these girls can go!

>Haven't seen one of these in awhile so figured I'd start a
>new one since we're heading into the Royal Rumble to
>Wrestlemania season.
>
>Kicking off the year on January 4th and 5th is the first ever
>two day Wrestle Kingdom event that will crown the first ever
>double champion (IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental).
>
>Chris Jericho vs. Tanahashi, if Tana wins he gets to challenge
>for the AEW World Title. If AEW and NJPW form a working
>relationship this will be one of the biggest things that has
>happened in wrestling in some time.
>
>Who do we have for Rumble winner this year?
>
>What y'all been watching?

It seems like we say this every year after the Dallas mania, but this card is looking pretty rough! And like we discussed here all the time, it’s pretty much their own fault. The roster is ridiculous but somehow it’s just not meshing properly. Too many rando rewrites on the weekly shows. Too many folks who are assumed to be more over than they really are / assuming folks should be able to survive bad booking and/or not doing anything for long periods of time.

At least NXT is still a grand ole time and it looks like we might get Velveteen Dream as champ. I’ll take it!

The only angle I'm invested in on the main roster is Edge/Orton. Cena/Fiend is intriguing, but that would depend on the build up and after Bray's Firefly Funhouse segment from Friday it may be the other angle I'm interested in seeing. Other than that nothing on either show has grabbed my attention.

And yes, Dream as champ I'm all in on.

The only angle I'm invested in on the main roster is Edge/Orton. Cena/Fiend is intriguing, but that would depend on the build up and after Bray's Firefly Funhouse segment from Friday it may be the other angle I'm interested in seeing. Other than that nothing on either show has grabbed my attention.

And yes, Dream as champ I'm all in on.

Going back and re watching Tough ENough really hammers home how dumb that show was.

all the indies are gonna feel that hit bigly.

I'm sure it's coming, but cmon Vince... do the right thing. My guess is he's waiting for Tampa to do it for him so his event insurance kicks in.

for insurance purposes. It's basically a game of chicken right now, in that situation. But yeah, no way can WM be happening in a football stadium on April 5. It's either going to be postponed or moved.

mainly because the production is the exact fucking same.

they closed the show w/ it and its equally terrible and amazing. im in tears laughing rn. this no crowd shit is terrible

edit: lol the undertaker flipping the table was awkward af

>they closed the show w/ it and its equally terrible and
>amazing. im in tears laughing rn. this no crowd shit is
>terrible

just absolutely bizarre.

everyone out. Assumed the whole show was showing the Rumble or something because they’ve got nothing else.

Air (heavily edited for 2020 audience) Attitude or Ruthless Aggression Era content. Bring in some old fans who want some nostalgia.

they could do literally anything different than they're used to doing and I think it would be well received.

Instead, they're running the -exact- same shows they always run, in front of no one, with no new promo structures or style of matches.

They've prob done nothing but think creatively on how to make these upcoming shows unique and use the lack of audience to their advantage.

there was the Saudi Arabia-Smackdown mess where they utilized the NXT roster for an awesome Invasion angle.

there was that Raw episode a few years ago that was just interviews after a blizzard made an arena show impossible.

I was looking forward to this to see what they'd do but it's been a disappointment. A couple segments did hit like Edge's promo and the Wyatt/Cena faceoff, but overall this is just super awkward. They're just playing to a crowd that isn't there.

that might get me back.

just kayfabe it like "we're not allowed to wrestle. we're all stuck at the PC and we're about to go nuts" and just have wacky backstage shit happening all the time.

that way you still get your action but you also get the character development and all that.

They put the wrestlers who didn't have a match that night in the crowd and had them kayfabe cheering and booing who they should be. They had the hard cam across from the entrance ramp so it didn't focus on the empty crowd that much and the action was still pretty good.

Who knows how long this thing might last, they want to go out there and put on the best show they can for a crowdless area to give the fans at home something to watch when they could have easily just canceled things until this is over.

For what they were working with, I'd say a job well done.

Pretty much all the negatives of this show would have been negatives in front of a live crowd.

The lack of a crowd is noticeable, but this was a very good foundation for further shows. My guess is they find a way to improve on it.

Sammy singing along to Judas (and MJF egging him on and later critiquing him)was hilarious. Jericho’s commentary during the match was gold. And the post match stuff - banning “pumpkin head dipshit fans”, the “shut the music off, nobody’s here anyway!”, Hager doing the push-up with Sammy on his back.....all of it was cracking me up.

Having a pro like JR on commentary helps too.

I’ll admit that I didn’t really give a shit about the matches - the crowd makes those a lot better.

The Adam Page/Matt Jackson dynamic has been getting fantastic crowd reactions. But the match quality and storytelling was pretty much on par with everything else we've seen from AEW this far.

We’ll see if they can keep it up, but what wasn’t working for you?

ESPECIALLY the AEW show where the crowd is part of the show

I find the stuff I’ve liked most these last few weeks is just the really earnest promos.
I thought Cody’s promo last night was as good as Bray/Cena’s last week.

Maybe it’s me, but I’m just not sure wrestling works in an empty room.

>ESPECIALLY the AEW show where the crowd is part of the show

im actually enjoying not hearing people chant

-The Elite opener was very good, and would have worked well, exactly as is on any show.

-The Death Triangle/Best Friends match was solid. I don't care for Trent at all and Kentucky Fuck Chuck and his Bradshaw Lite look is always reason to change the channel or leave the room. But Fenix and Pentagon are fantastic.

-The gambling shit with MJF is a great touch. The wrestlers in the crowd made a huge difference the entire night.

-Jake cut a wack ass promo. His first appearance was nice but this wasn't. The Lance vignette was whatever. I imagine this would have played differently with a live crowd, possibly confronting Cody directly. As is though, it wouldn't have been any better with a crowd.

The Dark Order and The Exalted One was cool and worked well until Brody Lee's trashbag, Mabel 2000 looking ass ring gear. Christopher Daniel's is a mediocre promo and always has been, and this wouldn't have come off any better live.

The main event is dope.

Jericho killed on commentary from jump, cracking on Arn's "waffle house menu". Coach Arn is a garbage character to me.

This show was anything but "ass", and presented an excellent blueprint for further shows under these circumstances.

Really good watch.

>Really good watch.

Yep. I peeped it. I’m at the point where I damn near watch the docs more than the weekly shows.

On that, I had to go ahead and watch that Benoit 2-ep Dark Side of the Ring. I went roughly a year without watching much rasslin after that shit happened. I dug EddIe G well enough and his death sucked. But I straight up adored the ring work of Chris Benoit. When he tapped Triple Haitch at Mania XX, I pretty much cried like a overjoyed bitch about it. That moment with him and Eddie hugging at the end of Mania 20 is still my favorite Mania ending. They tried to redo it with Daniel Bryan at XXX and that’s a good one too, but that XX? Maaaaaan, those dudes had already given up chunks of their lives to get to that moment. And they did that shit. It was great great great. Then it all went to shit within 5 years. Damn shame.

Watching that Benoit doc and reliving it, it reminded me that going to Mania 25 and getting that insane HBK/Taker match is probably why I still watch rasslin at all. Benoit falling off a cliff and everything surrounding those murders made me feel guilty to enjoy these rasslin dudes running themselves into the ground to be a certain size, have a certain look, or maintain a spot on the card. Then Kurt Angle was right after that but he made it at least. It’s even crazier now to see how the industry has mostly adjusted Away from the foolishness. Now a 6 foot 2 dude probably doesn’t weigh as much as Eddie and Benoit did at their biggest. And now there’s dudes that might not weigh 200 who can show up and win matches against damn near anybody and most of the non-Cornettey crowd rolls with it. Aka if they sell it, I buy it.

Jericho was great in the doc and just continues to put a Lexus Christmas Event-sized bow on his bad ass career with the stuff he’s done the last half decade. And David looks just like fucking Chris Benoit. That made it even harder to watch. But it’s a must watch if you can bring yourself to take it in.

I have to agree with you about that Eddie/Benoit Mania moment. It was incredible that these guys had reached the heights that they did after so long. But you're right, even as an image of the two of them hugging in the ring, it's incredibly difficult to just look at knowing where things went for them.

I may watch the Benoit docs at some time but it'd be a tough watch.

You're right about the Network docs being of a strong calibre. On that note, have you watched the recent Austin/Bret interview? The way you are with Benoit was me with Bret. It's a great interview - seeing Bret and Austin together discussing the Mania 13 match was gold but it burns me every time when Montreal is brought. Bret's the best of all time and it burns me as a fan so much that his career is reduced to that moment.

>I have to agree with you about that Eddie/Benoit Mania
>moment. It was incredible that these guys had reached the
>heights that they did after so long. But you're right, even
>as an image of the two of them hugging in the ring, it's
>incredibly difficult to just look at knowing where things went
>for them.
>
>I may watch the Benoit docs at some time but it'd be a tough
>watch.
>
>You're right about the Network docs being of a strong calibre.
> On that note, have you watched the recent Austin/Bret
>interview? The way you are with Benoit was me with Bret.
>It's a great interview - seeing Bret and Austin together
>discussing the Mania 13 match was gold but it burns me every
>time when Montreal is brought. Bret's the best of all time
>and it burns me as a fan so much that his career is reduced to
>that moment.

Yes. I was hating the Montreal part but then I loved the rest of it. It’s those little nerdy wrestler nuances that I love hearing about. Bret is still a badass in those moments and I’m glad he’s still here to give those to us. And I don’t mind him giving shit to the big and sloppy dudes like Vader and Goldberg. I see that sloppy kick as far worse than the Montreal stuff. It robbed Bret of the rest of his career and basically fucked up his life if you believe Bret’s book.

Side: I tolerate Goldy now more than I like him. He was Brock Beta in his heyday and that was cool enough but it sucks that he hurt so many folks. And now? He’s done but he keeps showing up and half-assing matches. I bet the nxt dudes laugh at his shit.

Side 2: I can’t imagine a world where Owen doesn’t damn near cripple Austin. Steve was as working SOB before that injury. The fact that he had to take a lot of the stank out of his pace and style after that is a big hurt. I’m still one of those idiots who loved his heel run. 2 man power trip!? Fuck yeah. Those matches with Benoit? Absolutely. He made WWE Benoit a main eventer in 3 matches: the tag where Triple Haitch tore his quad and the 2 tv matches in one cool ass week of wwe tv.

I think Bret’s work has and will continue to age very well. He was basically the size that a bunch of guys who came after him. And I’m not sure he was the best athlete, but his shit looks PHYSICAL in the best way and he could FUCKING GO. It also sucks cuz him and HBK have a Tupac/Biggie thing going where if you like one, some folks act like you have to hate the other one. I dig both of their ring shit. I’m glad at least one of them is involved with wwe/nxt.

The shitshow that was WCW...man, I don’t know if it could be overstated how bad they were for their last 5 years. And somehow they still managed to put on a collection of supreme matches. Mostly on the undercard sadly.

Goldberg is a fascinating character to me for a few reasons - he always came off as someone that just didn't respect wrestling at all. Even his Austin interview revealed that when he talked about not caring if he lost because it wasn't real competition, etc. I think that lack of respect is something that easily alienates wrestlers as well as fans. But the real interesting thing about Goldberg as relates the Monday Night Wars is that while WCW's star people existed from scooping up WWF guys forcing Vince to create a new breed of headliners like Austin, Rock, Hunter and Foley, the ONE guy that Bischoff created during that period as his own headliner was Bill. And Bill was a strong name in the fight but I honestly can't think of a single other person that WCW created on their own to rival anything WWF was doing.

Yes, the Owen piledriver is horrible. I can't even watch it when replays air. Austin has always been very open about the fact that Owen never reached out to him during his time off which I thought was strange. I thought he was going to ask Bret about it in their interview which would have been interesting.

Obviously I agree with everything you said about Bret. I remember my introduction to wrestling being like 10 Hulk Hogan matches before seeing a Hart Foundation match (my first non-Hogan match) and being in awe of what Bret was doing. He's been my favourite ever since. I wish he had handled things a bit better though. People always ask him about Montreal because he's always open to talk about Montreal and rag on everyone involved. I'm like him though in that I'd never really be able to get over something like that but I think it's hurt him more than just his final years as a wrestler.

>I bet the nxt dudes laugh
>at his shit.

Raw + Smackdown + NXT *combined* dont equal total viewership for high point Nitro

its almost like the general TV viewing public doesnt care about Great Matches™...

I'm really looking forward to this season though. I saw part one of Benoit on Saturday then checked out part two on Monday and it was just as I thought it would be, heartbreaking. I'm really looking forward to the New Jack epiode and the Road Warriors episode. Been looking at a bunch of Animal shoot interviews and mini RW docs on YouTube so that episode couldn't have come at a better time.

Makes sense to me. He’s compromised and doesn’t want to risk it.

But now what? Who is dying to get in the ring with old ass stiff ass Goldberg and hope that he doesn’t screw pooch and hurt you in some way?

Would they really stick Bro out there to get killed and potentially potatoed? Brock doing double duty? R Truth for the jokes? Cena double dipping? Taker on the rematch? Hmmm...

>Haven't seen one of these in awhile so figured I'd start a
>new one since we're heading into the Royal Rumble to
>Wrestlemania season.
>
>Kicking off the year on January 4th and 5th is the first ever
>two day Wrestle Kingdom event that will crown the first ever
>double champion (IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental).
>
>Chris Jericho vs. Tanahashi, if Tana wins he gets to challenge
>for the AEW World Title. If AEW and NJPW form a working
>relationship this will be one of the biggest things that has
>happened in wrestling in some time.
>
>Who do we have for Rumble winner this year?
>
>What y'all been watching?

>

Fair enough. Hopefully he wins. And fast. Maybe he jumps over a spear or something.

Braun has to win just based off that.

Him sitting on Indie guys probably made him look better to Vince

of all people, Undertaker coming through with a flamethrower

https://youtu.be/wkx_2dzSBFM

This is what I meant when I said I was hoping for more inspired content during these last few weeks. If people weren't dying all over the globe, he'd still be playing the tired grim reaper character. Instead, he has to pivot and in turn gives a more authentic promo. He can't move anymore, but damn if he doesn't still have a little fire. I was pleasantly surprised by this.

>of all people, Undertaker coming through with a flamethrower
>
>https://youtu.be/wkx_2dzSBFM
>
>This is what I meant when I said I was hoping for more
>inspired content during these last few weeks. If people
>weren't dying all over the globe, he'd still be playing the
>tired grim reaper character. Instead, he has to pivot and in
>turn gives a more authentic promo. He can't move anymore, but
>damn if he doesn't still have a little fire. I was pleasantly
>surprised by this.

I think all of these documentaries unlock whatever is still left in a lot of these guys. In that way, the WWE Network has more than validated its existence multiple times over.

I’m locked back into 2004-2008 era. I’m watching the Backlash after Mania 20. It’s crazy to hear JR go on and on about how the Mania 20 main was the best main event in Mania history and they’re running it back because of that. And HBK was clearly in a zone during his 2nd life. I regret that Daniel Bryan isn’t getting a similar go of it.

I think I’m at the point where I can watch Benoit and say ‘well, I know the shit ends badly, it sucks, and I wonder what dude had on his broken mind that weekend and the years after Eddie died leading up to it, but the guy was a good match-having mfer’. And I’m fine if that’s as far as I make it. And puhleeze, I don’t think about hot takey stuff like putting him in the hall of fame. And I even agree with WWE’s stance of not bringing him up. It’s already been proven that other folks can do that and get the points across. But if folks can fall in love with Tiger King or live mostly uninterrupted in a world where roughly half a country for real voted for DT, I can watch a few Benoit matches and call it a day.

Just snarling and sweating and yelling at no one

>Just snarling and sweating and yelling at no one

The empty arena separates a Goldberg from the dudes who do a lot more in the ring like Rollins and Owens. I still think his little thing with Braun hit hard even if it might be cuz a couple of those spears looked like straight up tackles.

Maybe they should’ve gone #HardyHomage / Lucha Underground for more of the show.

The AJ/Taker match is probably going to be well enough received that I could see WWE doing more matches like it until they can come back to live shows. Or I could see them at least adding music and/or some more editing here and there. The only challenge is how quickly the audience could be trained to appreciate the editing and music. Then they’d get stuck doing it all the time when a show isn’t live.

And Matt Hardy is somewhere either laughing his ass off or friggin pissed that they didn’t do this for him a few more times with bigger stakes. His Halloween special was basically the best thing he did at WWE and I don’t know if I’m like the only person who watched the shit out of it cuz they didn’t push it at all.

I wasn’t really a fan of the Broken Matt Hardy stuff, found it cringe-worthy for The most part. I think Matt Hardy thought it was good too, while the majority of it was so poorly acted/shot/presented.

I’ve seen a lot of people online this morning say “well now they should do more of these”...I disagree pretty strongly there

The Boneyard match largely worked because of how much it leaned into our perception of the Undertaker - the rough and tumble OG who’s seen it all. The fighting was fun, but where it flourished was in the banter between the two, the facial expressions, the little bit of blood Taker drew. Taker’s demeanor during the match and reputation as a performer...thats really what made it go.

The sample size is small, but there is precedent for these types of matches in WWE though, again, I’ve never been that enthused about them. Hardy stuff was a miss for me, and the Wyatt/Orton haunted house match or whatever should have never been broadcast.

I feel about the Boneyard match the way I felt about Jay-Z’s 4:44 album. I was really surprised and excited, but I’d be content with no more of it and think the performer should stop while he’s ahead.

If that’s really Taker’s parting shot, that’s as good as he’ll be able to do. The next one won’t feel as novel, it will have to live up to the expectations of this one, it will disappoint. This is where the Undertaker should sign off.

By far the only thing worth a damn tonight. They leaned into the cheese...and it almost all worked. That was a good time.

He just murdered a man on live television.

But with background music.

Edit: He probably murdered two men. Gallows probably dies from that fall. Especially without medial attention.

>By far the only thing worth a damn tonight. They leaned into
>the cheese...and it almost all worked. That was a good time.

Some people who never saw the Hardy stuff are blown away. I’m glad WWE dropped the pride and just went full #HardyHomage and made something cool instead of just doing a whole 2 night empty arena show.

Owens and Rollins did grand Indie-style work. The ladder match was strong too. And I’m glad Goldberg showed up, showed ass, and got beat the hell up the way he should at this point.

And now I’m hoping people don’t ruin the Bray/Cena thing by expecting too much. Me included. It should be good stuff.

but the 2000 NCAA championships are on ESPN2 right now

Cael Sanderson going for #2 of 4, and Brock Lesnar in the HW finals

putting on weight to play football had to take priority, so i had to stop :(

WAS FUCKING AWESOME!

Very creative… so much went into that production… Excellent storytelling… Definitely stole the show!

did not think they had something like that in them and I'm so glad Cena agreed to it.

The huge missed opportunity on the weekend is the lack of fan interaction. Duh, there's no one there - how could they have gotten fans engaged nonetheless? For a company that's always reminding us how digitally savvy they are, there was no hint of that ingenuity all weekend.

Right to the bad: too many matches of little consequence, and too few guys/girls who acknowledged and used the the unusual setting. By and large, most of the matches just didn't have enough heat, and most of the performers weren't creative enough to mix things up. Not enough talking between competitors, still a bunch of awkward looks towards a nonexistent audience...some of these matches were downright hard to watch (note: they'll get a mulligan, but Goldberg vs Strowman is easily the worst title match at a Wrestlemania ever)

The good: Cena, Wyatt, Edge, Orton, AJ, and Taker in particular clearly understood that this was a lawless time, and they ran with the creative freedom they were given. All three of the "cinematic" matches were entertaining, and a few days removed from the Taker/AJ "Boneyard" match I actually think it may be heralded as a classic. The online buzz is still humming for that one. I don't know what it says about the current roster, the backstage culture, or the WWE developmental apparatus when the weekend's brightest highlights were made possible by such tenured talents. But nonetheless, kudos to them for making chicken salad out of chicken shit. Also, do want to at least acknowledge the effort put in by Rollins and Owens. I'm not really an Owens fan, but he and Rollins busted ass as best they could as well.

The hallmark of the weekend was obviously Taker vs AJ Styles. That
exceeded any expectations that anyone could have had, and I can assure you it turned out better than anything they would have done in a traditional match setting. Part of me admittedly wants to see that version of the Undertaker character again, but I think it's in his best interest to call it at this point. The parting visual of him on the bike, fist raised, UT laser symbol on the barn...that's a fine spot to go out on.

If they're hell bent on still having so many Wrestlemania matches and including so many performers moving forward, then I guess going two nights is the way to do it. Probably hard to fill an NFL stadium full of marks two nights in a row, and I doubt they'd scale down to baseball stadiums. I wish they'd just have fewer matches, we'll see what they do moving forward.

In all, I think the weekend earned a C+ ... which is so much better of a grade than I think I would have thought they'd get going in.

If they're allowed to do a Summerslam, I anticipate that being one of their all-time best shows...the Mania they meant to have.

The boneyard was super fun and exactly the type of thing they should keep doing to extend Taker's career/mystique.

I can't sing the praises of the Funhouse match enough. Possibly the most creative thing they've ever done. 5 stars.

My favorite of the PC matches was Charlotte/ Ripley. A crowd would've been going nuts for that. I also really enjoyed KO/Rollins and the ladder match.

Mostly everything else worked for me, was a good length, and I was fine with the result. Orton/Edge is the exception. I t dragged on and on and I was very bored.

Charlotte/Ripley was the only in-ring match that honestly didn't need a crowd at all - it was that good. It was a perfect setting to show just how good Chalotte is - everything she does, from her trash talking to selling is masterful.

KO/Seth would probably have come in second for me.

Agree that Edge/Orton went far too long. I might've embraced it more had Gargano & Ciampa not tore up the PC just a couple weeks ago too, and done it better I'd say.

There was a whole lot of history in that story. I hate Superfiend and loved it and while I probably didn't get all of the references I didn't feel lost once I managed to regain my bearings regarding how crazy it was. My wife also hates Superfiend and isn't well versed on the history and she did not like it at all.

probably cause it reminds them of some adult swim shit.

And if so what did they think? I could see someone liking the Firefly Fun House and thinking the Wrestlemania thing was too out there. Although if they like for its Adult Swim-ness then I guess the Fun House match delivered there too.

I love the FFH too (less so after Seth...burned it down...ugh). I've pretty much hated everything with the Fiend until last night although The Fiend played a bit part role.

after seeing it in full myself, i'm actually more curious if they'd get it cause it's probably the most "in-crowd" thing i've ever seen in wrestling bc of all the references.

>There was a whole lot of history in that story. I hate
>Superfiend and loved it and while I probably didn't get all of
>the references I didn't feel lost once I managed to regain my
>bearings regarding how crazy it was. My wife also hates
>Superfiend and isn't well versed on the history and she did
>not like it at all.

Casuals just know a lot of stuff happened and that rasslin nerds enjoyed it. So their own opinion varies. Some of them will wait until whatever podcast they kneel to tells them what to think and they'll fall in line accordingly.

I myself missed the significance of the nWo part until I read about it. Even without that, I loved it. I'm gonna watch it again with that in mind and I assume I'm gonna think it's the best thing they've ever done.

Was the significance everybody always wanting WWE to turn Cena heel Hogan/nWo style during his SuperCena run or is there something deeper there?

>I myself missed the significance of the nWo part until I read
>about it. Even without that, I loved it. I'm gonna watch it
>again with that in mind and I assume I'm gonna think it's the
>best thing they've ever done.

and the rise of Cena to the top of their respective cards and how some probably see that as the beginning of a slow decline for their organization's as a whole.

>Was the significance everybody always wanting WWE to turn
>Cena heel Hogan/nWo style during his SuperCena run or is there
>something deeper there?
>
>>I myself missed the significance of the nWo part until I
>read
>>about it. Even without that, I loved it. I'm gonna watch it
>>again with that in mind and I assume I'm gonna think it's
>the
>>best thing they've ever done.
>

Stroud’s theory makes a lot of sense. Cena basically turns heel during the funhouse match because he’s not accepting what Bray is trying to tell him about himself: he sold out his original boyhood dreams to fit into what Vince wanted from his main stars. And then he eventually bought his own hype so much that he let Vince use him to abuse others who didn’t fit into the vision. You know the guys: the indy darlings like Punk or a fat guy like Bray.

And similar to Hulk going nWo, it’s a huge turn. But typical Cena, he doesn’t fully accept the turn so he just attacks Bray again instead of fully going along with the promo. Then the editing shows this failure to accept Bray’s version of the truth matching up with all of the other times Cena failed. Losing to Punk and losing Vince’s title, losing to Brock at Summerfest, getting punked by Taker, losing to AJ Styles and Reigns, all of that.

The end is Bray turning into the Fiend to save himself from Cena this time and righting the wrong of their old Mania match. And then he takes Cena’s words about Bray being entitled and overrated and turns them around him for the 2nd time in the match.

Yeah, it’s good times with this interpretation and I figure there’s other stuff or maybe other theories. I just watched it for a 2nd time. It’s excellently nerdy. And Cena is good shit for being down to do it. Especially if he actually sells it in any way going forward.

>It’s excellently nerdy. And Cena is good
>shit for being down to do it. Especially if he actually sells
>it in any way going forward.

Really curious what the next John Cena looks like...feels like he wanted to "kill" the John Cena character

Hogan evolved and switched gears, and got red-hot a second time in a different era from the first. To a lesser extent Hall and Nash did too. Cena never did; he was "just" a legitimately good person for SO long, that people eventually just switched to appreciating the man.

And thats to his credit as a man, because in 1995 no one had any appreciation for Hogan in OR out of the ring. He wasnt endearing in his acting; his persona was stale and earning significant audible boos on WCW programming; and people were already suspecting that he was a scummy asshole IRL.

But as a performer, Hogan was an Icon. WWE just wants people to *think* Cena was, and it works well enough for their purposes because he's a rock solid guy and he actually brings people enjoyment with his film work.

I know a few people who are big wrestling fans who aren't fucking with it right now because of the missing crowd… The missing crowd definitely hurt some matches… some more than others… I can't imagine too many people who just kinda like wrestling being into Mania with no crowd...

Not shockingly, it’s good times. Beth and Edge have a good thing rolling.

And duh, Edge looks great recently cuz he put in the damn work.

I have so much respect for rasslers who can work for real. I hate feeling like I’m harping on this point, but it keeps popping up in my mind so I keep sharing it.

Besides that, as I get older, I think the thing I like about rasslin the most is my mark ass ideal of seeing these folks be ‘successful’. A heel being hated/getting the boos. The nerdy rasslers getting their nerdy nuanced shit over. Hurt dudes coming back and looking good. Character work. Campy/abnormal stuff that plays on all of the things that makes wrestling what it is. Keeping the surprises a secret. Good Heel/face turns. The ‘all I wanted to be was a wrestler’ wrestlers that have flooded NXT over the years. All of that stuff.

And my lucky ass was at the Rumble when Edge came back. So there’s that too. Everyone lost their shit when that music hit.

>Haven't seen one of these in awhile so figured I'd start a
>new one since we're heading into the Royal Rumble to
>Wrestlemania season.
>
>Kicking off the year on January 4th and 5th is the first ever
>two day Wrestle Kingdom event that will crown the first ever
>double champion (IWGP Heavyweight and Intercontinental).
>
>Chris Jericho vs. Tanahashi, if Tana wins he gets to challenge
>for the AEW World Title. If AEW and NJPW form a working
>relationship this will be one of the biggest things that has
>happened in wrestling in some time.
>
>Who do we have for Rumble winner this year?
>
>What y'all been watching?

Drake Maverick, EC3, Eric Young, Gallows and Anderson, Lio Rush, Heath Slater, Aiden English, Curt Hawkins on the talent side

Kidman, IRS, Finlay, Lance Storm, Shane Helms, Sarita, Scott Armstrong, and Daivari on the producers/agent side

>
>
>Drake Maverick, EC3, Eric Young, Gallows and Anderson, Lio
>Rush, Heath Slater, Aiden English, Curt Hawkins on the talent
>side
>
>Kidman, IRS, Finlay, Lance Storm, Shane Helms, Sarita, Scott
>Armstrong, and Daivari on the producers/agent side

They made Sarah Logan and No Way Jose travel on Easter to get squashed on Raw and then cut them 2 days later. Zack Ryder, Kurt Angle, the Colons, and the Kanellis family are all gone.

And he’s always pulling shit in Twitter so I’d take that with a grain of salt.

However, if true it’d be super dumb. Once AEW and New Japan start hiring he’d fit in very nicely to their main event scene.

Edit: it’s confirmed... very dumb move on their part.

>And he’s always pulling shit in Twitter so I’d take that
>with a grain of salt.
>
>However, if true it’d be super dumb. Once AEW and New Japan
>start hiring he’d fit in very nicely to their main event
>scene.
>
>Edit: it’s confirmed... very dumb move on their part.

He’s gonna do great wherever he goes. Hopefully he has a good time with it, wins some titles, and sets the rasslin world on fire again.

That’s another crazy Dark Side ep.

To me, it’s a weird ep cuz there were so many folks still trying to cover their ass/claim they don’t remember stuff. Most of the time most folks who are lucky enough to be alive tend to be somewhat reasonable. But no involved investigators and rasslin folks would wanted to show up damn near 40 years later and say ‘yeah, Snuka prolly did that shit. He’d hit her a few times and he was constantly coked out. And it’s a shame that he just did that shit and got away with it’.

Not to compare, but I think I have a roadmap to the Benoit thing. Drugs. Roids. Concussions. Grief. Domestic violence gone too far. And dude knew he was in the wrong so he went on and off’d himself the same weekend. He could’ve let Daniel live but still. It’s not like Benoit killed a lady then went on wrestling like normal for a few more years along with going around for 20-something years acting like he didn’t do what he did.

This Snuka shit? Killing some girl you were messing around with while your wife and family are at the house? Ok, drugs and dudes hitting women. But then doing the shit and then acting like you didn’t do it? And being able to essentially get away with it? Sure, he probably had some grief until he died but he was still on the scene telling a story about it 30 years later.

props to everyone for working stiff, but even when they got it right they still sometimes felt the need to inject Sports Entertainment

i loved the boneyard match, but the druids and the pyro each took 30-60 seconds for me to recover from. that was the best filmed fight scene ive ever seen...until the pyro went off and the druids vanished. but AJ and Taker were unbelievable, and the verbal interactions were absolutely amazing. i believed in everything they did, and it oddly reaffirmed what really makes wrestling awesome. two believable guys that believably hate each other, and have a fight because one is a fucking asshole. the selling was easily the best ive seen since I was a teenager, and "please dont bury me" was the highest spot in wrestling this year. granted all thats easier with reshoots and editing, but still.

the firefly funhouse thing...it was alright i guess, but if there is no plan for some 4th wall breaking John Cena rebirth it kinda just felt like a shoot burial of his legit body of work. laughing at his annointing because Vince could never let go of outdated ideas, criticizing him for not being able to evolve his character...that seemed oddly, idk, hurtful lol. only the end felt like a work because Wyatt strikes me as the kind of guy who actually has no issues doing jobs, because he obviously knows how to use that to get over down the road. but no opportunity to refute the other stuff, then *poof* hes gone? i didnt like that part.

Edge vs Orton...wow. seems like i liked that more than a lot of other people did. again, stiff as fuck, and i believe in "edge" and the "legend killer" so i believed in why they were doing it. in that regard, the "old guys" put on a clinic in selling and emoting. i can see why some people thought it was too long, but for me the length made for some excellent legitimate wear and tear effects in the last 10 minutes that added to the intensity for me.

Charlotte vs Rhea Ripley...also wow. Shades of Hart v Austin at WM. Charlotte is the best in that whole company, full stop, and thats why shes going to be on NXT now. This is the first real sign that AEW is landing body blows, because shes a star that acts like a star, and knows how to do what her daddy used to do. Win and get someone else over at the same time. I dont watch NXT regularly but i did watch Shayna vs Ripley, and this match did more for her in my eyes than that one did...because she held her own with the only prime-age Icon in all of wrestling right today. I could watch her matches over and over and over again. She made Asuka look like a million bucks 2 years ago, hopefully they do better with Ripley. best traditional match of the night for me.

beyond that Becky-Shayna, Rollins-Owens, and Zayn-Bryan were all very good. Brock-Drew was dumb. I hate Hate HATE when repeated finishers only seem to help someone recover from the first one. Goldberg-Strowman was the only way out of their Saudi Arabian money-grab booking.

the rest of the good stuff was all individual things within over- or under- booked matches (John Morrison finish, Bayley-Sasha interplay, Otis-Dolph finish)

the remainder meant nothing to me in either direction.

without Excalibur screaming words that mean nothing to me, and with the extra space of a 2 man team, these guys are gold. for PPV matches and televised championship matches is still want to have JR, but i love them as weekly television.

theyre obviously not Gorilla and Heenan, but theyre similar in that they have a personal connection that comes out in the commentary.

They are so much fun together

this company man...

.

Breh had a lot of potential but it’s gotta be a wrap after this

He said he has people investigating it and is making it seem like he was either hacked or it wasn't him.

I hope dude wouldn't be this dumb.

>He said he has people investigating it and is making it seem
>like he was either hacked or it wasn't him.
>
>I hope dude wouldn't be this dumb.

I’m still in the ‘don’t be sending dick pictures to anyone ever’ camp, but I’m old.

and it completely made me do a 180 on Martha.

For years Martha has been portrayed (mostly by Bret) as a stubborn, uncompromising widow who wants to detach Owen and her family completely from wrestling even if it means wiping away all of his work and his legacy. While I understood she was obviously hurt and blamed Vince and the WWE, I fully believed she needed to let it go, come to peace and let WWE honor Owen's legacy.

Then Martha pulled out the clip that was holding Owen as he dangled 80+ feet above the ring.

Fuck everybody involved in putting Owen on that catwalk that night. Vince (McMahon and Russo), the rigging company, whoever. Fuck. Them. All.

After listening to Martha (on both the Dark Side ep and Jericho's pod), as well as Oje and Athena, it's clear that she/they have no problem with Owen's legacy being honored and his wrestling career being appreciated, they just have no interest in letting Vince and the WWE profit off of it, be it economically or just on public image. In a way, allowing Vince to put Owen in the HOF (which, as she points out, isn't even a real fucking thing), she would essentially be publicly forgiving Vince/WWE of their responsibility in Owen's death.

Going to go back and read the Owen chapter in Bret's book now that I have some context from Martha's side, but all I can really say about Bret (who is my personal GOAT) is he needs to STFU on this one. Bret's place as Owen's keeper ended the day he and Martha said their I do's and he moved further down the list after his kids were born.

I have so much respect for Martha and those kids for telling the story of their husband/father on their own terms. And god damn that last line by Oje "it was fun, thanks for that" fucking killed me.

>Going to go back and read the Owen chapter in Bret's book now
>that I have some context from Martha's side, but all I can
>really say about Bret (who is my personal GOAT) is he needs to
>STFU on this one. Bret's place as Owen's keeper ended the day
>he and Martha said their I do's and he moved further down the
>list after his kids were born.
>

A) this is post-screwjob, so the family should already hate Vince's guts and their attitude should be "Alright Owen, just get as much money as you can out of that company and leave."

B) WWE and Vince clearly killed Owen through their negligence. Whatever future money you think you could make with them is completely negated by that.

That carabiner was a fucking joke. Barely strong enough to hold a key chain.

Goddamn, that was a tear-jerker. I've really enjoyed this season but none of them really hit me emotionally until this one.

I'll be streaming it live tomorrow using Kast

Hit the link and request access if you haven't used my room before. I'll be checking before and during the show and adding people. Room is private for not to keep the assholes out.

https://s.kast.live/g/8lf7lrmxzl

Had to fix the sound but its smooth now.

the positives were awesome. jungle boy vs MJF was far and away the highlight of the show for me. no fuckery, real selling, real charisma...top notch all the way around. that should be a PPV main event some day.

the battle royal was fun in a way that the main event was not, bc there was nothing that didn't make sense. well, not TOO much. the brian cage burial and resurrection was a little heavy handed but whatever. Frankie Kazarian has really won me over just by being a physical realistic competitor. i hated the SCU Sgt. Pepper thing last summer, but his work has made me have mad respect for him.

Kris Statlander is gonna kill someone. she's
got a lot of potential, but her botches are just too much and kept their hottest heel off the PPV.

kip sabian to me is a perfect chicken-shit midcard heel.

i expected fuckery in the Nyla Rose - Shida match, and i was disappointed in the finish, but otherwise it was a pleasant surprise. it didnt need the stipulations but i enjoyed that the no-dq was kinda marginalized and it was basically just a no count-out match with spots that were fun, again in a way the main event wasnt, because it never overshadowed the idea that these women were fighting for something important.

Cody - Archer, also very very good, until something happened that almost made me choke on my dinner. a referee came from the back to enforce some authority. what in the absolute fuck. these jabronis have been getting buried by talent for 12 months amd now the worst fucking ref in the whole company is coming out to swing his dick around? totally ejected me from what had been a decent amount of emotional investment, but they reeled me back in for the end. good match.

Moxley and Luke Harper did stuff to each other back and forth for a while, spending about 7-8 minutes outside of the ring while the same ref who charged out of the back earlier just pleaded with them to get in the ring. dude never even made a 1 count. thanks for burying yourself and slapping me in the face with the fact that none of this matters. im starting to think that Moxley needs to be produced. his stuff looks good and hes an engaging promo, but his matches can be boring and the ineffectual referee killed this for me.

which brings me to the main event. a carnival of fuckery unmatched in televised wrestling history. first of all, everything Jericho was directly involved with was absolutely perfect. the challenge flag, the mascot, the review, the line...everything worked because he stayed serious even drenched in absurdity. of course Chris Jericho would drop the mascot and demand video review of a 2 count.

on the other end of the spectrum we have Matt Hardy and the Young Bucks. i was always under the impression Broken Matt Hardy worked in Impact because no one ever indulged the idea that he was ACTUALLY POSSESSED. but no, he is actually endowed with supernatural powers, and Excalibur drives that home incessantly. i feel bad for Jim Ross in times like that. everything hes been involved in since he showed up has made me feel like an idiot for even trying to care about it.

the Bucks...i would honestly prefer if they were just never on TV again. the show was better without them, i dont believe in anything they do, and its all just moves moves moves. if wrestling were guitar music, they are Bill and Ted trying to do Yngwie Malmsteen, and it oozes out of their pores that they are just 2 dorks acting like what they think pro wrestlers act like. Kenny Omega is adapting and slowly, with fits and starts and setbacks, becoming a TV character i can be interested in. its just not happening with these assclowns.

overall a good time. more of the good stuff and less of the bad stuff plz.

a shitload of wrestlers getting called out for sexual/emotional/physical abuse, many trainers getting called out for creeping on young trainees, even some referees and ring announcers are being named. Mostly men but a couple women have been outed as abusers as well. The UK scene has especially been hit hard and it doesn't appear to be slowing down. There will almost certainly be some firings from WWE and AEW.

Perhaps most disappointing to me is Progress Wrestling's complicity. Other companies don't surprise me, but this is a company that bills itself as progressive and literally kicks out fans for being dickheads. A fan emailed Progress management about Jimmy Havoc assaulting them at a bar after the show, and their response was that he was just staying in character. Given how many of their workers have been named I'm sure there's even more to it.

I'm absolutely disgusted. A couple of my faves have been named and I don't feel right supporting those individuals anymore. Your mileage may vary on some of the evidence, but please don't be like the shitheads on Twitter who are knee-jerk defending these fucks.

Any industry where there’s some sort of hierarchy of “paying your dues” is gonna have this kind of stuff, so certainly wrestling isn’t alone, but it’s obviously disgusting and needs to be abolished. Today is wrestling’s day of reckoning and I hope they clear the ranks of all the abusers.

https://twitter.com/thekiaprint/status/1274167531729756162
https://twitter.com/thekiaprint/status/1274159497053974529

Kid (24!!!!) was well on his way to being a god damn STAR too

Dude is 100% filth. Also, Uproxx’s silence is deafening in the wake of this.

Have to hand it to him, turning a terrible run of performances into the last angle of his career is pretty smart.

Only about ten minutes in to ep #1 but enjoyed it so far. It's strange how he's being so open about things over the past few months. Still can't get used to his normal speaking voice, haha.

like I don't think he had a run of bad matches on purpose. But I think when he kept having them he realized he could make this an aging cowboy story until he landed on a match he was comfortable leaving on.

The candor is refreshing. Even after the novelty of hearing him talk so much wears off, I admit I find him still oddly charismatic.

I was still intrigued and entertained by him.

shame it happened vs no crowd and Charlotte had a prior shoulder injury from earlier in the night, but still she got tapped tf out

But I think they’d do well to make her look human for a while and Asuka should look like a world beater during this title run

she's deserving of wins like this. Charlotte needs challengers who look challenging - women with physical offense who can take a lick too and keep at Charlotte's pace.

Most of these women punch like 7 year old boys, it does little for me. Even today I'm confused how Becky Lynch became so popular. But I think Charltote and Asuka are as good as it gets.

She was a damn monster on the mic, she looked like a fucking badass after Nia gave her that au gratin, and her work for the previous year was consistently good.

On TV and on Twitter.

Loving this tournament! Pretty damn good shows. Night 3 was my favorite with the big upsets of Shingo and Tanahashi. Toru Yano is killing me with his sanitizer spray and whatnot, and this feud with Takahashi’s hair is incredible. Takahashi is really selling the terror in his eyes. Hilarious match this morning.

but I watched Shingo vs. SHO and Ibushi vs. ZSJ yesterday. They couldn't have been more different but I was riveted during both of them.

Evil vs. Okada

I don’t think they run back Okada vs. Naito so soon, especially not with a crowd, and I think the Dominion matchup that makes the most sense is an LIJ one. Granted, I thought that’d be Shingo and then I thought it’d be Sanada, so maybe don’t listen to anything I have to say! Evil fought REALLY dirty against Sanada though and he’s a big enough deal that Okada can lose to him no problem.

My favorite thing in this tournament was the Takahashi/Toru Yano feud with the electric razor shenanigans. My god Yano is so much fun to watch.

Wasn't too crazy about the interference, but Evil winning/heading to Bullet Club is a great move. First BC defection I've liked in a while. LIJ has been easing away from being heels for a long time, but Evil was getting worse and worse. He was truly despicable against Sanada in the Semis.

Looking forward to Dominion!

Wow... did not see that coming.

What in the fuck?

Holy shit.

I was watching this live and lost my shit at the end of this match! 2020 has been a mother fucker!

>I was watching this live and lost my shit at the end of this
>match! 2020 has been a mother fucker!

As excited as I was for Evil's defection, I thought this was a standard main event between Wrestle Kingdoms where there's basically no chance of a title change. They got me and they got the crowd. I wonder if this was always the plan (since they are known for their long-term booking) or if they called an audible to get people talking about the company. Either way, pretty brilliant.

Still... I'm gonna miss Tetsuya 2 belts. I bet this is the end of his "Tranquilo" philosophy.

8PM EST

Yall know the deal
https://s.kast.live/g/8lf7lrmxzl

its a shame they have to waste this performance on quarantine shows

also what do you think of Raw Underground
i think it has potential

I'll check for things that seem interesting, i.e, Bayley and Sasha, or things that at least warrant a look, like Underground.

Which is badly dated dog shit.

It's a shit idea made all the worse with Shane being the guy running it. But it was apparently his idea, so there's that. Of course, EC3 said that it was his originally.

But Shane is the guy who most coasts on nostalgia value, and he's horrible. If they wanted to sell it.... Heyman's available, I'm sure.

And even his expiration date may have passed for some shit like this.

The dancers are unintentional comedy. The whole thing looks and feels like a platform to relaunch Surge soda and JNCO jeans.

The only thing keeping it from being the worst idea in wrestling is this Retribution nonsense.

it should be used to set up someone in a big way. Like I think that's the perfect platform to really get Aleister Black over once and for all, or a great way to introduce Keith Lee properly

I can't really deal with Raw or Smackdown much right now. I refuse to suffer through it currently.

I've been checking out a lot of Stardom stuff as well.

The G1 tourney dates were released and I'm excited as hell they get to do that this year.

>I can't really deal with Raw or Smackdown much right now. I
>refuse to suffer through it currently.
>

I have watched Raw the last few weeks to check out Sasha’s run and this Raw Underground shit. I’ll give them credit for trying something different but there’s just too much nonsense and filler to commit 5 hours a week to Raw and Smackdown, especially with actual sports picking up.


>The G1 tourney dates were released and I'm excited as hell
>they get to do that this year.

Can’t wait

But it’s dumb with no fans.

I watched AEW until about May, but got bored of it.

They should just sit on all their angles for now, and go old school - just have matches where one of them is the heel because they cheat a lot. No “storylines”. Just rivalries.

>its a shame they have to waste this performance on quarantine
>shows
>
>also what do you think of Raw Underground
>i think it has potential

Barely. I enjoy it in small doses when I watch but I'm just not into much of it now. And I'm not sure its them at this point. Cuz I see some good rasslers having good matches here and there. Adam Cole grew on me bigtime in NXT. Keith Lee has been hella dope. Yes, Sasha and Bayley have finally figured it out and they're KILLING it. Even Randy Orton is doing good stuff and appearing to be dangerous.

I just think I'm at least partially out of it with all of this uncertainty and silliness. Too much racial, political, and monetary division going on. It is tough to hold reasonable conversations about much of anything with all of the 'pick a side and be ready to ride or die' stuff. I'm stuck on the 'how come we don't all do better for real this time!?' side. But that's too boring for folks and it doesn't fit on a hashtag.

The son of a neighbor just got me into watching AEW (he was apparently a manager in the local scene a little while ago). Now I'm hooked. Watch Dark and everything. Lack of fans doesn't really bother me, because it's been so long since I've watched it anyway.

I've been taping NXT and watching it on the recommendation of a long-time friend. I'm not sold on it. The Adam Cole and Pat MacAfee "feud" is the dumbest shit ever. But there's some redeeming value to the rest. So I might keep with it for a few more weeks.

and it let Dark become its own thing

I still enjoy it a little now but currently it's no where near as exciting as what it used to be. I think them moving to a two hour show and trying to compete with AEW has caused them to suffer. I loved it when it still felt like a smaller indie show.

If you want I can link some amazing matches from the NXT of old.

>

I love that Bayley eventually landed on her feet. I really dislike that Zayn has not. He’s got that Ziggler vibe almost on the main roster show.

Nxt...it’s still good but I think now we expect it to be grand. And every time I think it’s over for nxt, some indie dude shows up and ends up being awesome. For instance, Kross is a monster. Looks great. Good snug-looking work. Valet with holdings.

Trim down the interviews, which are mostly pointless with no crowd.
>
>If you want I can link some amazing matches from the NXT of
>old.

Yes, please. Thank you.

asuka winning the raw strap was great. sasha is a big ass joshi nerd so seeing her go crazy against the greatest joshi in the world was really fun

mandy vs sonya was surprisingly strong too.

i don't care for the mysterio/rollins rivalry anymore

mcintyre winning via a rollup was very old school and very cool.

i know i should be but including ciampa and gargano just sort of sours me on the whole idea. i love em in the ring but their inclusion doesn't excite me at all. i would have enjoyed at least one wild card in this match:

- dexter lumis
- kushida (i hope he goes back to njpw)
- mansoor (what a wasted talent)

i'm only semi excited for this tho. either way a 60 min ironman on network tv seems insane

>i know i should be but including ciampa and gargano just sort
>of sours me on the whole idea.

The whole thing was a set-up for Cole v. Balor anyway. So including Gargano and Ciampa was pretty much pointless.


>i'm only semi excited for this tho. either way a 60 min
>ironman on network tv seems insane

I would say that it's a play for ratings on a night that they have all to themselves, but from what I understand, historically iron man matches on network TV have been ratings poison.

And, as I mentioned above, it was a play to have Cole vs. Balor for the title on the second consecutive un-contested Tuesday night.

I also thing part of the problem is that the roster is feeling pretty thin due to "call-ups" and injuries. Keith Lee is on RAW. Kross is hurt. WALTER is in the UK. Loomis is hurt. I don't know who else you put in the title picture.

Before it started I was really excited and then I had a work meeting start 30 minutes in and didn't really care that I couldn't focus on the match anymore. And seeing as how that focus would have just resulted in WWE giving me the finger anyway I guess that worked out okay.