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Forum nameOkay Sports
Topic subjectdid the Dolphins bring The Process to the NFL, or are they just stupid?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2703280
2703280, did the Dolphins bring The Process to the NFL, or are they just stupid?
Posted by will_5198, Tue Sep-17-19 08:16 PM
it's sort of an interesting topic, since they are so committed to tanking at this point. it's rare you see that in the NFL, because losing a bunch of football games still requires blood, sweat and ACL tears (unlike basketball).

right now Miami has the following draft selections*:

2020 1st rounder
2020 1st rounder (Pittsburgh)
2020 1st rounder (Houston)
2020 2nd rounder
2020 2nd rounder (New Orleans)
2020 3rd rounder
2020 3rd rounder (comp)
2020 4th rounder (Tennessee)
2020 5th rounder (Pittsburgh)
2020 5th rounder (comp)

2021 1st rounder
2021 1st rounder (Houston)
2021 2nd rounder
2021 2nd rounder (Houston)
2021 3rd rounder
2021 4th rounder
2021 5th rounder

*I didn't include anything in the 6th round or later because with that many picks, they likely couldn't sign them all and will probably just use them to move up in the 4th-5th rounds.

ho-lee shit. that is a ton of draft capital. in what looks to be a very good cycle of college quarterbacks in the next two classes, for about as well as we can quantify that via crystal ball.

does it work? of course it depends on the draft, where even the best GMs are right half the time. and if Flores and his staff can coach (he'd be an outlier coming from the Belichick tree). but I read that this is a chance to completely restart, develop positions that take time, get a bunch of cheap talent on rookie deals, and take their shot at the division as Brady breaks down at age 45.
2703283, Should be fun to watch this play out and see how well it works
Posted by calij81, Tue Sep-17-19 10:32 PM
If they hit on half their draft picks, pick up a few bargain pieces in FA and Brady or BB finally retires then the division could be theirs to run for the next 5-8 years.

I was high on Rosen while he was at UCLA and I think your were as well. Do you think he fits into their long term plans? Do you think Rosen even has a future in the NFL as a starter? I just figured his struggles last season were largely due to him being a rookie and the Cardinals lack of talent. I was surprised he didn’t beat Fitz out in Miami but I figure he will see the field sometime this season.
2703285, as I understand, they don't want to de-value Rosen
Posted by will_5198, Tue Sep-17-19 10:38 PM
and are trying to get back the 2nd round investment they made on him. so they don't want him to take the brunt of the rebuild.

or maybe he just sucks. I think his surrounding casts after 18 games in the league make that hard to judge.

either way, he's so cheap they should keep him anyway. his rookie contract is less than most veteran back-ups. they can draft a top QB and still have a cheap developmental QB to flip at the end of his contract (a la Garoppolo).
2703284, The last part of your statement answers the question.
Posted by Lil Rabies, Tue Sep-17-19 10:37 PM
They want to bubble until Brady is gone like a dealer preparing to flood the block knowing that the warrant squad is imminent for their rival. Open that window as wide as you can if it works.
2703286, It's an amazing haul and impressive dedication
Posted by smutsboy, Tue Sep-17-19 11:28 PM
But I feel like in the NFL you can't and shouldn't do a complete and total detonation the way you might do in hockey or basketball.

In hockey you can get by with like one decent top line and three lines of depth players and youth.

But in the NFL aren't rosters too big and some positions too important?

For example, trading Laremy Tunsil? The guy is 25. Maybe you don't want an elite left tackle this year, but are they not going to want one 2, 3, 5 years from now while Tunsil is still in his prime? So now they're going to have to draft one in 1-2 years?

I dunno.

I kinda love rebuilds in any sport (shout out to Jagr -> Ovechkin), but this seems too much.
2703288, right, there are a number of problems
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Wed Sep-18-19 12:18 AM
first off of the four or five major sports, a football player has the least impact as an individual. secondly you need to hit on mid and late round picks to have a winning team. thirdly there is a shit ton of player movement and you'll never sign any free agents of a decent value and barely any at all if you suck a fat one year after year.

the easiest sport to do it in basketball because the best players are so concentrated in the top 10 picks and of course one guy can turn your whole shit around, in ways that even an elite QB, LT, etc cannot in the NFL. hockey it's not tough either, unless you're fucking edmonton, because you get two or three money guys by sucking and there are other means of getting the rest of the roster (hard cap creates FA and trade movement, plus culturally firings/trades are much more common than other sports). i think it's a hard sell in baseball, unless you're smart AF about it (e.g. Astros) and in the NFL it's goddamn near impossible.
2703290, the mid to late round picks is the trickiest part
Posted by Rjcc, Wed Sep-18-19 04:19 AM
I just don't know how you balance that on a football team. most guys aren't good enough in their first few years to carry the whole thing without the mid round vets you hit on a few years before.

at best you end up with some stars, but by the time they're ready to win now you gotta pay all of them and now the franchise tag is working against you cuz you can only tag one

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
2703294, lol four #1 overall picks in six years. FOUR.
Posted by smutsboy, Wed Sep-18-19 08:55 AM
>unless you're fucking edmonton
2703418, that's the interesting bit
Posted by will_5198, Fri Sep-20-19 08:32 PM
>For example, trading Laremy Tunsil? The guy is 25. Maybe you
>don't want an elite left tackle this year, but are they not
>going to want one 2, 3, 5 years from now while Tunsil is still
>in his prime? So now they're going to have to draft one in 1-2
>years?

Tunsil is going to be a FA after next season, when you'll have to pay him $20+ million a season. but you are still getting his prime (age 27-33) at a position that is probably the 2nd-hardest to draft right now, outside quarterback.

so do you bet that your team will be good enough by 2021 to tie up $100 million at LT? because spending that kind of money means you start the win-now countdown. or do you bet that you hit on 3 players in the top 50 of the draft, who'll be on rookie contracts until 2023-24, and put yourself in a better place cap-wise with a better overall team?

I think LT is such a premium and Tunsil is young enough to keep him. but maybe the team is so shitty (well no maybe, they are) that you had to sell him to jump-start this rebuild. and he certainly netted a big return. but then you have to hit on at least 2 of the 3 picks.
2703287, i mean they managed to lose plenty without trying
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Wed Sep-18-19 12:15 AM
but i'll say this, that steelers 2020 pick is looking pretty fuckin nice right now. between that and their own pick, they could really kick start this rebuild.
2703320, Hershel Walker trade says that this strategy can work
Posted by Orbit_Established, Wed Sep-18-19 11:28 PM

They really did draft foundational Hall of Fame guys
from those picks
2703354, ehhhh i dunno
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Sep-19-19 05:55 PM
it's of an outlier to me and people widely misunderstand what made that trade work. your idea that they got "legitimate HOF players" out of it, while kinda true, helps illustrate why.

first off, a big issue was that the vikings attached conditional picks to the roster players they sent to dallas. they figured dallas needed players and would keep most if not all of the five roster players they sent to them. in one case, a player refused to report and they traded him to san diego for another pick. the other four guys i don't think ever played a down for minnesota and the cowboys cashed in those picks. that replaced the picks they sent out and then some.

from there, the cowboys had to finesse a number of things, coupling the assets they acquired with other assets to move up in the draft to select emmitt smit--who was really the key to them winning the trade--with pittsburgh's first rounder (they sent one of minnie's picks plus assets to move up). that was the first first rounder. the second one they also packaged in a big package that was kinda risky in its own right, their deal to move up for russell maryland (he was supposed to be the cornerstone to their rebuild).

they made another deal with the pats that got them darren woodson in the second round and indirectly (yet another trade) kevin smith who started for them for a while at corner.

those were the significant guys they got in the trade, and as you can see none of them were directly obtained in the deal. they had to maneuver well beyond the additional deal to get the best out of it, and you'd never see a team make that type of deal today.
2703322, Giants should be tanking for Jerry Jeudy right now.
Posted by allStah, Thu Sep-19-19 07:07 AM
Seriously. Jones-Barkley-Jeudy.

Miami need TT, it’s the right thing to do
2703328, two out of three ain't bad
Posted by smutsboy, Thu Sep-19-19 09:42 AM
>Jones-Barkley-Jeudy.
2703329, as long as they dont pull a John Elway this should work
Posted by HecticHavoc, Thu Sep-19-19 10:48 AM
no matter how many draft picks this stupid asshole has he is completely clueless.

This Bolles dude had FOUR HOLDING PENALTIES in one week. Gutter trash. picked Assweiler over Russell Wilson and Cousins.

I could write an essay but im gonna stop myself.
2703355, exactly. a very savvy org could make it work. they aren't that.
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Sep-19-19 05:56 PM
2709666, so they aren't getting Burrow/Young
Posted by will_5198, Sun Dec-29-19 05:34 PM
but the way Flores has rallied these guys over the course of the season was a hell of a coaching job. I think I'd be more encouraged as a fan by the on-field results and 5th pick than a complete dumpster fire like Cincinnati.
2709716, Flores impressed me
Posted by The Real, Mon Dec-30-19 08:53 AM
Especially with that roster.

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2749250, Cincy fans winning right now
Posted by will_5198, Mon Oct-25-21 12:10 AM
>encouraged as a fan by the on-field results and 5th pick than
>a complete dumpster fire like Cincinnati.
2729131, Flores did a hell of a job. just missed the playoffs but won 10 games.
Posted by will_5198, Mon Jan-04-21 01:37 AM
and now they have the 3rd overall pick.
2729135, Easily, Coach of the Year and they have a lot of picks to get some
Posted by calij81, Mon Jan-04-21 02:21 AM
help for the offense. They could even trade out of that 3 spot and get a few more picks.

I do think he needs to get rid of Chan Gailey but Tuas youth and lack of playmakers probably buys Gailey another season as OC.
2729203, The dump Tua talk is crazy IMO
Posted by The Real, Mon Jan-04-21 03:54 PM
Dude didn't get a full training camp coming, was coming off an injury, and they had major COVID implications on the offensive side of the ball.

Also, how many times is Fitzpatrick going to fool people?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2729216, Yeah.
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Mon Jan-04-21 08:40 PM
He's not Josh Rosen or even Darnold. Give Tua some time.

I think people think because Maholmes came in and lit the world on fire, every young quarterback ought to do that. Even Maholmes got a year to sit and watch.
2729247, RE: Yeah.
Posted by jimaveli, Tue Jan-05-21 11:18 AM
>He's not Josh Rosen or even Darnold. Give Tua some time.
>
>I think people think because Maholmes came in and lit the
>world on fire, every young quarterback ought to do that. Even
>Maholmes got a year to sit and watch.

Sadly, this happens almost anytime a few players from the same position blows up early. I'm old enough to remember when OBJ, Landry, and others blew up and folks went to town taking shaky WRs and assuming they were gonna be on some 90 catch 10 TD stuff outta the gate. OOPS!

And how many small/fast/'gadget' players have gotten drafted early after Sproles (and even a dude like Percy Harvin)?

And yeah, Mahomes was and is a special arm talent who landed in the best possible place. Andy and Eric were on some LMAO stuff when the Bears took Mitch and left them a shot at Patrick. And now that he's learning the game and making life easier on himself, good luck stopping him on a regular basis with that group of pass catchers. And folks need to understand that KC's offensive line has not been amazing this year at all. AKA he could be doing even more.
2729242, that would be insanity...
Posted by Dstl1, Tue Jan-05-21 10:29 AM
dude is so young and inexperienced. What they need is a new OC, for real...and some weapons. Dan Orlovsky cringed at the idea of them drafting a QB when Greenie posed the question, yesterday. He and Rex Ryan were both like....no, stop! Use that pick and get the best OL in the draft or an elite WR and build out.
2729251, its insane. he doesn't have anybody to throw to
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Tue Jan-05-21 11:28 AM
2729254, People said this is why Fitzpatrick was successful
Posted by The Real, Tue Jan-05-21 12:31 PM
The wideouts were bad and Fitzpatrick is at the point in his career where he is like "eff it" and didn't care if he threw INTs. Tua is trying to throw people open and they are not getting separation.

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2729241, They have the 3rd overall pick?
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue Jan-05-21 10:01 AM
Holy sh*t. Not sure how i missed that. To win ten games, rebound from a rebuild, have Tua as a possble franchise or draft a new QB is pretty damn amazing
2729246, RE: They have the 3rd overall pick?
Posted by jimaveli, Tue Jan-05-21 11:08 AM
>Holy sh*t. Not sure how i missed that. To win ten games,
>rebound from a rebuild, have Tua as a possble franchise or
>draft a new QB is pretty damn amazing

Yep. BOB in Houston made that trade figuring the Texans would be good and the picks wouldn't be all that valuable. Oops. They sucked. They were hurt. He got canned. The defense laid down a lot. 4-12. Giving up a top 3 pick (and anotha pick) for Kenny Stills and Tunsil isn't aging well at all.
2749251, well, well well. how the turntables...
Posted by will_5198, Mon Oct-25-21 12:16 AM
the 2022 first rounder they traded to Philadelphia is probably going to hurt. next year's draft doesn't look particularly strong, but I know Miami wasn't expecting to give away a top 5 pick to get a top 6 pick.
2749371, They bet on the wrong horse in Tua and need to Rosen him STAT
Posted by Tiger Woods, Tue Oct-26-21 07:51 PM
Flores can still save face but the clock is ticking. I don’t know how much validity there is to the Deshaun rumors - that last just a shitstorm I’d want to stay away from if I were trying to build a successful culture.

They should go all in on Russell Wilson
2753342, just won their 6th game in a row
Posted by will_5198, Sun Dec-19-21 04:29 PM
back to .500 and in the AFC playoff mix, amazingly enough
2753344, trust the Process
Posted by ThaTruth, Sun Dec-19-21 04:45 PM
2753345, They have beat 6 mostly bad teams but it is still impressive
Posted by calij81, Sun Dec-19-21 04:45 PM
2754926, Flores was brought in as the rebuild fall guy
Posted by will_5198, Mon Jan-10-22 05:44 PM
usually a minority coach who connects with the players and oversees the bad years, only to be unceremoniously removed due to "wins and losses" once the talent he nurtured is ready to win

problem was, he started winning too many games and overachieving with this current group

Ross kept the middling GM and struggling Tua (who Flores hated) over the one guy that actually showed the most promise during this process
2754960, BINGO!!
Posted by poetx, Mon Jan-10-22 10:56 PM

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad
2755018, amazes me how some fans actually think its about hiring the best man…
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Jan-11-22 09:06 AM
for the job
2755024, Or that the best players always play
Posted by The Real, Tue Jan-11-22 09:33 AM

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2755030, yup.. its a business
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Jan-11-22 10:29 AM
knee a guy who had a tryout with the Bucs back in the day. He went to FAMU and was lighting it up in camp

They pulled the plug on his showing and told him to hit the showers

because the powers that be wanted Brad Johnson or whoever it was at the time.

Like Kaepernick said: “You have to have that stamp of approval or its damn near impossible to play certain positions at the highest level.”
2755021, yup
Posted by Ashy Achilles, Tue Jan-11-22 09:27 AM
2755023, Dolphins owner said they were winning but the vibe wasn’t right.. lmao
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Jan-11-22 09:33 AM
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/story/sports/nfl/2022/01/10/brian-flores-fired-miami-dolphins-and-joe-schad-explains-why/9157327002/

Ross did not like the vibe in those Dolphins' offices. Ross did not like what he was hearing, what he was seeing and what he was sensing.

In the end, Ross simply decided Flores wasn't the person he wanted leading the organization. He did not like what was happening behind the scenes.

It wasn't about wins and losses. It was about people.



so these fools fired Flores because he was stubborn and winning his way? White men in the NFL front offices are so fucking fragile.
2755037, RE: Dolphins owner said they were winning but the vibe wasn’t right.. lmao
Posted by The Real, Tue Jan-11-22 01:23 PM
>so these fools fired Flores because he was stubborn and
>winning his way? White men in the NFL front offices are so
>fucking fragile.

This has an "angry black guy" vibe to it.



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2755071, Naw. True translation.
Posted by allStah, Tue Jan-11-22 05:48 PM
Him and Tua didn’t get along....It was Tua over Flores, and I agree with it.

He is going to get someone in there who is more offensive minded.

That way they will find out if Tua is the guy or not.
2755073, Not surprised you agree with it.. lol
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Jan-11-22 06:02 PM
2755076, Everything is not about black or white.
Posted by allStah, Tue Jan-11-22 06:23 PM
And Tua is a black QB.

It was quite obvious that one of them was going to have to go in order
for the team to have a true direction. The identity of the team is a defensive one,
which is what the owner is referring to, and that’s not the direction they want to go
in. Flores just wanted one way of playing and coaching.

Constant turnover with the coaching staff, couldn’t settle the offensive
play calling issues, and didn’t really have a good connection with the players.

They want an offensive identity with Tua at the helm, to see
if he is the guy or not. They weren’t going to find that out
under Flores.
2755078, I'm curious what games you've seen from Tua...
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue Jan-11-22 06:37 PM
...that even remotely indicates he will ever be a high level franchise level QB. And i LOVED Tua in College. Dude just is not it.
2755087, We don’t know that.
Posted by allStah, Tue Jan-11-22 07:43 PM
It has only been 2 season, and there was no development under Flores.

2755085, its not about Tua’s color
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Jan-11-22 07:24 PM
its about an owner hitching his wagon to a GM who has failed over and over..

and firing a HC who is trying to bring a winning culture to a franchise that sucks ass

Keeping the GM is foolish at this point. Tua probably isn’t the answer and trying to turn a team set up for defense into a good offense is foolish.

Back to 6-11 they go next year.
2755080, I’m with you and not surprised by his take at all
Posted by calij81, Tue Jan-11-22 06:52 PM
Advocating to keep Pace in Chicago and firing Flores to keep Tua happy. What a world man…
2755081, Gives you a nice glimpse into the mind of bad ownership
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Jan-11-22 06:55 PM
Where people want to see what they want instead of what is actually in front of them.

Tua just isn’t that good.
2755092, I’ve been saying Tua isn’t good for a while now
Posted by calij81, Tue Jan-11-22 08:15 PM
My brother in law who is still a Chargers fan was legit upset when the Chargers didn’t trade up for Tua and settled for Herbert. I told him the chargers dodged a bullet and Tua wasn’t worth a top 10 pick.
2755094, We don’t know that yet.
Posted by allStah, Tue Jan-11-22 08:24 PM
His main issue is avoiding injuries, not his ability.
2755086, Bears made several PO appearances under Pace,
Posted by allStah, Tue Jan-11-22 07:38 PM
and had a 12-4 season, and the bears have tons of talent.
Miami is nowhere in that category, not even close. Pace is
a good GM. Miami can’t say that.

What are you talking about?

In order to see if Tua is the guy or not, he has to be in a real offense first.
We don’t know what Tua is going to be, which is why they moved up from Flores
to find out.

They have to figure this out soon, so if he isn’t the guy they can draft
a QB in 2023

No pussy footing around.

Why is that so hard to comprehend?

2755093, Tua isn’t good, he isn’t a terrible QB. He is Trubisky 2.0
Posted by calij81, Tue Jan-11-22 08:17 PM
So I underhand why you defend him and still believe in Tua.
2755097, damn.. this is sad approach for a team
Posted by legsdiamond, Tue Jan-11-22 08:33 PM
fire the good defensive QB to hire an offensive guy to see if Tua is legit?

and then wasting another draft pick on a QB?

its like the Bears have turned you into a defeated fan who accepts terrible FO decisions.

2755101, Flores was getting his ass kicked by top offensive teams.
Posted by allStah, Tue Jan-11-22 11:13 PM
His defense didn’t stop those teams, so that’s false and overrated. You want
to at least have an offense in there that can keep up and put up points.

Also, the culture he was building was a culture that was overly conservative.
Why do you think he had such a high turnover with his coaching staff, and
didn’t really connect with his players?

Do you see any players responding against this termination?

Team isn’t winning.
Team can’t compete with good teams.
Your own staff don’t like you
And the players don’t too much care for you.

He was trying to turn Miami into a patriots like culture.

You thought that was going to ride out into the sunset on
some romance shit?

FOH.
2755106, yeah.. he should’ve won 13 games this year..
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Jan-12-22 06:25 AM
and its wild crazy to want to turn a team around and ruffled some feathers

he’a about to be the Chicago coach so you need to get ready for big ole meany McFlores
2755166, RE: did the Dolphins bring The Process to the NFL, or are they just stupid?
Posted by COOLEHMAGAZINE, Wed Jan-12-22 10:01 PM
Belichick acolyte fails, alienating people in the process


News @ 11
2755171, Pretty much.
Posted by allStah, Wed Jan-12-22 10:33 PM
I can’t believe I’m agreeing with you.
2761235, 2019 --> 2022
Posted by will_5198, Thu Mar-24-22 01:20 AM
QB Ryan Fitzpatrick --> Tua Tagovailoa
RB Kalen Ballage --> Chase Edmonds

WR DeVante Parker --> Tyreek Hill
WR Allen Hurns --> Jaylen Waddle
WR Preston Williams --> Cedrick Wilson
TE Durham Smyth --> Mike Gesicki

LT Julie'n Davenport --> Terron Armstead
LG Michael Deiter --> Connor Williams
C Daniel Kilgore --> Michael Deiter
RG Shaq Calhoun --> Robert Hunt
RT Jesse Davis --> Liam Eichenberg

DE Avery Moss --> Zach Sieler
DT Davon Godchaux --> Raekwon Davis
DE Christian Wilkins

LB Samuel Equavoen --> Emmanuel Ogbah
LB Raekwon McMillan --> Elandon Roberts
LB Vince Beigel --> Andrew Van Ginkel
LB Jerome Baker

CB Xavien Howard
CB Nik Needham --> Byron Jones
S Eric Rowe --> Jevon Holland
S Bobby McCain --> Brandon Jones
2761236, Bills —> Josh Allen
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Mar-24-22 05:06 AM
2761238, Devante Parker --> Devante Parker
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Thu Mar-24-22 06:53 AM
2797034, Flores sucks, Tua's good, and this team is AFC title game bound
Posted by Tiger Woods, Mon Sep-25-23 12:49 PM

that hardass act is played out. Both things can be true - Flores caught a raw deal / Flores is a huge bummer

you get Tua a coach who smiles and , ya know, loves scoring and it's fireworks

if Tua can stay upright these guys are, at worst, going to the AFC title game
2797037, is this the same team Flores had with Tua as a rookie?
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon Sep-25-23 03:15 PM
2797038, he had Tua, was hard on Tua, made him a scapegoat.All true.
Posted by Tiger Woods, Mon Sep-25-23 03:26 PM
look at Tua's body language and listen to how he talks now vs under Flores. It's night and day, and that's not even an opinion.
2797040, So rookie Tua and 3rd year Tua are the same? what about skill positions?
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon Sep-25-23 04:03 PM
2797041, not sure it wouldve ever gotten to that point
Posted by cgonz00cc, Mon Sep-25-23 05:11 PM
if theres that much friction between the potential franchise QB and a head coach with no track record, who wins that power struggle?
2797043, beyond Tua, Tyreke Hill was in KC and Mostert was in SF lol...
Posted by ThaTruth, Mon Sep-25-23 06:01 PM
are you all arguing that Tua and the Dolphins would be as successful without those players? will the same coaching staff that put him back on field after a concussion?
2797045, no. im saying none of that matters if its coach vs qb.
Posted by cgonz00cc, Mon Sep-25-23 07:28 PM
the team hitched their wagon to Tua and told Flores to kick rocks

there is no "what would have been?" unless things were copacetic, but they werent
2797054, So has every great quarterback started as a rookie?
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Sep-26-23 12:00 AM
2797058, make a point if you have one
Posted by cgonz00cc, Tue Sep-26-23 09:57 AM
2797065, I need to ask you that question, sounds you just want to critique a..
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Sep-26-23 05:56 PM
black coach
2797067, its a pointless question, from a pointless source
Posted by cgonz00cc, Tue Sep-26-23 06:04 PM
2797069, You literally came in this post to debate with me lol
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Sep-26-23 10:44 PM
2797511, i came to help you understand something
Posted by cgonz00cc, Tue Oct-03-23 10:16 AM
but thats only slightly less difficult than helping a fence post understand something

oh well
2797063, are you saying there's no link between Tua's performance and how
Posted by tariqhu, Tue Sep-26-23 03:22 PM
Flores handled things?

none of this stuff is in a vacuum. Tua was young and not ready, along with coming into a bad situation with the head coach.
2797066, Mahomes, Rodgers, & Brady didn't start as rookies either lol
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Sep-26-23 06:00 PM
2797068, two of them had better QBs in front of them.
Posted by tariqhu, Tue Sep-26-23 10:22 PM
Mahomes didn't, but he started his 2nd year. Nobody could've predicted how well Brady would be.

You're still skating around your point. are you saying that Flores wasn't the problem?
2797070, RE: two of them had better QBs in front of them.
Posted by ThaTruth, Tue Sep-26-23 10:45 PM
>Mahomes didn't, but he started his 2nd year. Nobody could've
>predicted how well Brady would be.
>
>You're still skating around your point. are you saying that
>Flores wasn't the problem?

You’re skating a lot more lol
2797071, Nah
Posted by fif, Wed Sep-27-23 04:17 AM

>if Tua can stay upright these guys are, at worst, going to the
>AFC title game


https://twitter.com/alexbrasky/status/1706647820646715402

2797072, its a long season.. Phins started out hot last year too.
Posted by legsdiamond, Wed Sep-27-23 07:58 AM
right now they look unstoppable but Denver is trash on defense this year.
2797470, probably shoulda kept this in your pocket
Posted by fif, Mon Oct-02-23 04:49 PM
til AFTER the game against the division rival. the bills own the dolphins soul. made sea mammal kielbasa again.

basic thing is what everyone says. when it's flowing, it's hard to beat. but get tua off his spot...dude is not great at throwing on the run, going off script. and his arm when he isn't in a perfect bubble of a pocket...that ball moves sloooow
2797471, This too reactionary off one road game
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Oct-02-23 06:12 PM
2797477, the bills owning the fins?
Posted by fif, Mon Oct-02-23 08:31 PM
i think josh allen is 10-2 lifetime vs the dolphins.

in Josh vs Tua head to head matchups:

TD passes: Josh, 17. Tua, 5.

INTs: Josh, 2. Tua, 5.


and so on...so yea we own them.


are they getting better? maybe. we'll see. didn't look great yesterday.

2797513, not any more reactionary than Miami beating
Posted by will_5198, Tue Oct-03-23 10:33 AM
the Chargers, Patriots and Broncos (combined 4-8 record) and claiming they should be AFC champs already
2797520, damn that early season schedule looking gerber soft now
Posted by Amritsar, Tue Oct-03-23 11:30 AM
I looked ahead at their upcoming, and they have at least 6-7 relatively easy matchups for the rest of the season


We might not actually know who they are until the playoffs start
2803252, they have one more year left with this group
Posted by will_5198, Mon Jan-15-24 12:20 PM
Miami will have to do some veteran restructuring just to get under next year's cap (projected $40 million over) -- currently Tyreek, Ramsey, Xavien Howard and Chubb have a combined $110 million cap hit in 2024 (basically 40% of your cap on four guys)

Tua will probably play out his fifth-year option and Miami will either re-sign him or let him walk based on his 2024 season

Wilkins is a FA now and will want big money, then next year rent will be due on Waddle, Jevon Holland and Jaelen Phillips

lots of questions!
2803255, I called them frauds this year once you looked at their opponents
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon Jan-15-24 12:39 PM
Tua is really bad when you make him a little uncomfortable

Someone on sports radio said they averaged 216 yards against teams with winning records and were 1-7 in those games. (dating back to last year obviously)