At this point there is no need to ever debate this obvious fact again.

#bradygoat




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Current Favorite Song: https://youtu.be/8v_KFHnPImY

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

before this game. he didn't do anything to taint his legacy, but he wasn't special either. defense won this one.

either way, I can't argue against him.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/super-bowl-bill-belichick-mvp-patriots

actually, the 3 SB losses do.

4-0 > 6 participation trophies

good god, not this argument again.
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you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

I'm still unsure what the argument is for Tom and how it would be improved by his subpar performance last night??

Just aggregate rings?


In football???


GTFOH


Bill the GOAT coach and he showed us why last night. He coulda won that with Nick Foles.

that's the equivalent of Michael Jordan being on a Finals team and only hitting 3 free throws out of 4 attempts. and that's the ONLY stat line

motherfucker put up "Worse than Dilfer" numbers in a conference championship AND a Super Bowl back to back... and THAT'S y'all's GOAT?

because rings?

FOH

that shit was bait.

Shouts to Joe Montana getting benched in a playoff games for sucking that bad on what most people thought was the best 49ers team of his era.

but it wasn't a super bowl so...that's better somehow?

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you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

The NFC won all the Super Bowls back then. Giants and Washington both won multiple titles. Bears had one of the best teams of all time.

A lot harder to come out of that NFC than the 00s or 10s AFC.

on hits that are now no longer allowed in the NFL

And I don’t care about or particularly like or dislike either of them. My Giants faired more than ok against both of them in big games. Just trying to be fair. When comparing across eras, context matters.

Almost has the same effect as Gina Grad plopping into my lap. Almost.

by stating that the AFC wasnt beating anyone else either

did SF ever play a SB against a team as good as the 2001 Rams, 2014 Seahawks, or even the 2018 Rams?

Steelers and Colts have won Super Bowls and PIT has never beaten Brady in the playoffs. 0-3 in AFCCG

Even he's come around this morning and admitted what we've all known for the last five years

GOATs don't cheat, and they don't drop steaming turds like this in championship games.

This is the equivalent of a Jordan Finals win where all he did in the entire game was hit 3 of 4 FGs.

was the one that took him over the top.

he was actively underwhelming save for one drive. but that one drive mattered.

GOAT

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you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

if that dude gets Theismanned, you bet your ASS I will party.

Y'all didn't disappoint lol

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Current Favorite Song: https://youtu.be/8v_KFHnPImY

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

He was a nonfactor.

same application as here, Stephon Gimore was the MVP, Brady barely mattered.

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Current Favorite Song: https://youtu.be/8v_KFHnPImY

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

if you play bad and lose you get the blame

Pretty sure Billicheat not playing Butler was a huge reason they lost.

That touchdown drive and those perfect passes to Gronk put the dagger in the game. And lets not forget the two game winning drives he had against Kansas City to get them here. Haters are just being absurd at this point

9 Super Bowl appearances and 6 wins is WAAAAYYYYYY more impressive than 4 appearances with no losses. The this isn't the NBA - to make it to the Super Bowl in a single elimination tournament is MUCH more difficult than making it to the NBA Finals through rounds of 7. In a round of 7, the best team wins much more often than in a single elimination when one individual good or bad performance can swing the fate of a team. In the NBA most years it's a foregone conclusion that a team from one conference (or both some years) will make the Finals. Not in the NFL. Making 9 Super Bowls is insane, and he's done it in many different ways.


And lets not forget the two game
>winning drives he had against Kansas City to get them here.
>Haters are just being absurd at this point

Hasn’t caused me no trouble.

I find the constant “GOAT” stuff kinda annoying though. He’s up there. Got a great argument for it. This game was pedestrian though.

I'm no longer cheering for the Pats, but yeesh, Brady's GOAT and it basically ain't close anymore.

The Montana folks are adorable. THE NFC WAS SUPER TOUGH ! HE NEVER LOST (EXCEPT ALL THOSE EARLY PLAYOFF EXITS) ! lol. So cute.


>RE: The people arguing Montana look more embarrassing every year
>I'm no longer cheering for the Pats, but yeesh, Brady's GOAT
>and it basically ain't close anymore.

serious question

Career shortening and affecting hits.

That aspect of the game doesn’t exist anymore.

That’s why you can’t look solely at numbers that depend on longevity. Longevity then vs. now are a lot different.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================

Think about how ridiculousy different the rules are.

Where receivers line up. Jamming receivers. Not being allowed to TOUCH QB's etc etc etc..

It's a completely different sport. Can anyone honestly can say they think Tom Brady would have lasted 20 years in the NFL that Marino, Elway and Montana worked in?

Nah.

Brady got sacked once in the entire playoffs this season. And it was baby taps. And his team put up 13 points in the lamest super bowl ever.

There's the low/no contact NFL that he played in, and then the Real football that used to be played.

IMO, it can't be compared. Gotta separate it.

Montana played 9 healthy seasons maybe, Brady & Manning & Brees etc.. 15+

>Think about how ridiculousy different the rules are.
>
>Where receivers line up. Jamming receivers. Not being allowed
>to TOUCH QB's etc etc etc..
>
>It's a completely different sport. Can anyone honestly can say
>they think Tom Brady would have lasted 20 years in the NFL
>that Marino, Elway and Montana worked in?
>
>Nah.
>
>Brady got sacked once in the entire playoffs this season. And
>it was baby taps. And his team put up 13 points in the lamest
>super bowl ever.
>
>There's the low/no contact NFL that he played in, and then the
>Real football that used to be played.
>
>IMO, it can't be compared. Gotta separate it.
>
>Montana played 9 healthy seasons maybe, Brady & Manning &
>Brees etc.. 15+

No professional sport has been so altered to favor offense like the NFL, and no position has been so protected as the QB.

This does not diminish Brady's extended greatness over all these years, because he can only play the competition in front of him under the rules in existence during his time, but it's disingenuous to act like these are the same conditions. We're not talking about the players having better fitness and nutrition making them bigger faster stronger, these are the RULES being changed to allow them more opportunities and less resistance in their attempts to score.

I stopped saying MJ was the GOAT in bball just because he never had an opportunity to play against some of the all timers. I'd do the same in this regard. I would rate the best QB in each of 3 phases of the NFL: Unitas, Montana, Brady

>Think about how ridiculousy different the rules are.
>
>Where receivers line up. Jamming receivers. Not being allowed
>to TOUCH QB's etc etc etc..
>
>It's a completely different sport. Can anyone honestly can say
>they think Tom Brady would have lasted 20 years in the NFL
>that Marino, Elway and Montana worked in?
>
>Nah.
>
>Brady got sacked once in the entire playoffs this season. And
>it was baby taps. And his team put up 13 points in the lamest
>super bowl ever.
>
>There's the low/no contact NFL that he played in, and then the
>Real football that used to be played.
>
>IMO, it can't be compared. Gotta separate it.
>
>Montana played 9 healthy seasons maybe, Brady & Manning &
>Brees etc.. 15+


These idiots don't even have an answer

However I will conveniently take the position that he's the best ever or not the best ever to troll the fuck out of anyone who has a strong opinion about this. It's so easy.

if the only thing standing in their way is an andy reid team in the playoffs...you know how thats going.

doesn't matter what he accomplishes he took a big ol dump on his hopes at a legit legacy...

And kickers to meet his needs. Stop crying



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Current Favorite Song: https://youtu.be/8v_KFHnPImY

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

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Current Favorite Song: https://youtu.be/8v_KFHnPImY

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

margaurito got caught with plaster in his gloves... have other fighters done it for a competitive edge before... sure.. is it right? no... did it ruin his legacy and any sense of legitimacy for any of his fights? absolutely.. at least Brady's transgressions didn't result in folks getting their faces smashed TF up but it still pisses on his legacy imo.

>margaurito got caught with plaster in his gloves... have
>other fighters done it for a competitive edge before... sure..
>is it right? no... did it ruin his legacy and any sense of
>legitimacy for any of his fights? absolutely.. at least
>Brady's transgressions didn't result in folks getting their
>faces smashed TF up but it still pisses on his legacy imo.

allegedly adjusting the air in a football is a common practice for all QB's and Kickers. And there was NEVER any proof that Brady made that happen. Nothing is tainted. Folks are just bitter because he's almost unstoppable.


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“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

>allegedly adjusting the air in a football is a common practice
>for all QB's and Kickers. And there was NEVER any proof that
>Brady made that happen. Nothing is tainted. Folks are just
>bitter because he's almost unstoppable.

despite only needing to score a td or two in pretty much all of his post season games he found a way to drive down the field to have a kicker bail him out again.

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“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

>despite only needing to score a td or two in pretty much all
>of his post season games he found a way to drive down the
>field to have a kicker bail him out again.

wherever the league tries to move, he's ahead of it.

this dink and dunk shit is his fuckin' creation.

.

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“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

it's amazing how people who's job it is to watch film view Brady so differently than know-nothings.

cliff notes...

-brady processes pre and post faster than anyone maybe ever

-brady's patience is undervalued. he takes those quick-hitters for 5-7 yards because they're there and there's no need to get greedy looking for huge gains, when you can be establishing rhythm and building confidence and keeping D off the field.

-brady plays within stucture better than any QB ever...OC's dream QB, because he makes the proper reads and doesn't go off script and let's people do their fucking jobs.

-rodgers more talented, but lacks discipline, which is why he he ain't on tom level. called him a "jazz player"...goes outside structure too often and leaves plenty of open productive throws on the field.


so basically he calling tom a system QB...because he can play well in any fucking system

>
>it's amazing how people who's job it is to watch film view
>Brady so differently than know-nothings.
>
>cliff notes...
>
>-brady processes pre and post faster than anyone maybe ever

Debatable but seems realistic

>
>-brady's patience is undervalued. he takes those quick-hitters
>for 5-7 yards because they're there and there's no need to get
>greedy looking for huge gains, when you can be establishing
>rhythm and building confidence and keeping D off the field.

Seems accurate

>
>-brady plays within stucture better than any QB ever...OC's
>dream QB, because he makes the proper reads and doesn't go off
>script and let's people do their fucking jobs.

Montana invented that

>
>-rodgers more talented, but lacks discipline, which is why he
>he ain't on tom level. called him a "jazz player"...goes
>outside structure too often and leaves plenty of open
>productive throws on the field.

Rodgers? Okay, yeah, agreed, that sounds correct.

>
>
>so basically he calling tom a system QB...because he can play
>well in any fucking system

Also sounds correct.


He is obviously one of the best QB's ever.



The jump from that to undisputed GOAT is where the evidence in lacking

>The jump from that to undisputed GOAT is where the evidence in
>lacking

Other people have done those things too, or other things of equal or more value.

For example. Joe Montana was great pre-and-post snap. We have both statistical evidence, our own eyes, and the words of his teammates and coaches.

Different era, but Montana changed the way people played offense and defense and he killed the 46 defense dead in it's crib.

Or you could say Walsh did…but then we would get into Brady/Belicheat territory. Also, when he put Steve Young in charge, Steve couldn't stay on script*

*In a vacuum, Steve better than Tom but let's stay on task

So Montana, amazing pre-and-post snap.


Montana was much more mobile*, mobility is a thing that is also good right? Just like all the other things that go into quarterbacking, right?

*Have to wonder if Brady statue would have lasted two seasons the way he moves out there.


Montana fought off a HOFer for his job, and had a psycho coach who tried to play mind-games with his great QBs in ways that just wouldn't happen in this era. Imagine BElicgeck insisting on keeping Jimmy G and then making them alternate series' and halves, all the while cracking jokes in the media?

Montana had a better arm and less blown big moments than Tom. Splitting hairs? Yes, but if we are counting Tom's aggregate big moments let's also count his overthrows to open guys that cost titles.

And as has been said a million times, Montana played in a different era so it's very difficult to compare.

I could go on.

Tom is one of the best ever.

I don't see evidence of GOAT

you've never been able to reconcile him getting benched IN HIS PRIME during a playoff game because he absolutely lost the team the game. for whatever reason, he was not himself.

Tom not on this list

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000628679/article/ten-worst-playoff-performances-by-qbs-in-the-modern-era


And just because it didn't happen in the SB don't mean it didn't happen.

for all the romanticizing, joe threw for a paltry ass 150 yards against cincy for his first ring.

joe was trash against the giants in 85. and WAY MORE trash against them in 87. if tom brady got his ass beat by 40+ and threw for 98 yards and two picks...man, stop.


you are valiant in your efforts, dogg. i give you that. but i grew up s montana fan. i have EXCELLENT recall. he's not better than brady.

>
>you've never been able to reconcile him getting benched IN HIS
>PRIME during a playoff game because he absolutely lost the
>team the game. for whatever reason, he was not himself.
>
>Tom not on this list
>
>http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000628679/article/ten-worst-playoff-performances-by-qbs-in-the-modern-era
>
>
>And just because it didn't happen in the SB don't mean it
>didn't happen.
>
>for all the romanticizing, joe threw for a paltry ass 150
>yards against cincy for his first ring.
>
>joe was trash against the giants in 85. and WAY MORE trash
>against them in 87. if tom brady got his ass beat by 40+ and
>threw for 98 yards and two picks...man, stop.
>
>
>you are valiant in your efforts, dogg. i give you that. but i
>grew up s montana fan. i have EXCELLENT recall. he's not
>better than brady.

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“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

WAIT WAIT DID BRADY NOT HAVE EPIC FAILURES ON HIS WAY TO THE SUPERBOWL

GTFOH


Who lost to the bum ass Jets????


Who got they lunch stole by bitch ass Eli Manning in the Super Bowl?


Who just went out there and looked like the corpse of Alex Smith and won ANYWAY because Belicheck is the best?

Let's not even get into the fumble against the Raiders or all the mediocre performances that Tom Brady has skated by on because Belicheck.



>you've never been able to reconcile him getting benched IN HIS
>PRIME during a playoff game because he absolutely lost the
>team the game. for whatever reason, he was not himself.

Walsh would bench anyone. Next.



>And just because it didn't happen in the SB don't mean it
>didn't happen.

Tom threw two picks against the Broncos and averaged like 2 yards per completion on the way to a paltry 18 points in a loss to the ghost of Peyton Manning.

Tom got BLOWN THE FUCK OUT AT HOME by the Ravens and a rookie Joe Flacco dog!!!!!

JOE FLACCO!!!!!

Yo, what was Tom's stats tho, I know you wondering?

23-42, 154 yards, 2 TD, 3 INT

THEY LOST AT HOME 33-14


Please leave me this argument alone, man, this aint it.


>
>for all the romanticizing, joe threw for a paltry ass 150
>yards against cincy for his first ring.

Different league. And let's not get into the realm of examining game-manager Brady's early works.

>
>joe was trash against the giants in 85. and WAY MORE trash
>against them in 87. if tom brady got his ass beat by 40+ and
>threw for 98 yards and two picks...man, stop.

Did Tom play against LT, Belicheck, Parcells and half the HOF? In an era where you could actually legitimately cheap shot QBs every play?

No?

LOL!!!!!!

He lost to Flacco at home in a blowout…please stop

I have no problem admitting when Brady was bad and cost his team, because he got 6.

You reduced to saying dumb shit like Walsh “would bench anyone”

Pathetic

LOL nice plea cop buddy

He’s legit had several games worse than any Brady has ever had in the postseason and you run to “different eras” and Walsh’s inclinations towards benching. He ain’t bench no other offensive starter in that game. He benched JOE. Because Joe was absolute garbage.

Brady makes them fucking *manic*. Got this dude in his bedroom watching VHS tapes of all playoff games like "Brady overthrew Welker on 3rd and 4 with 2:57 left in the 3rd quarter of the 2012 AFC Championship game ! Joe NEVER overthrew a receiver in 27 degree, partly cloudy weather on grass in a playoff game !"

These idiots literally think that every one of Brady's 6 Super Bowls, 30 playoff wins, 207 career wins, 3 MVPs, 590 TDs, 81,700 yards, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc were all the result of luck. Just luck, that's it. Zero talent, anyone could do it. I mean look at that clown's post above. Buuuuunch of whiny ass excuses. "Psh he was lucky in the Snow Bowl. He lucky he had his kicker. His coach. The refs. Receivers. Bad division. Bad conference. Bad league. Divine intervention." Wahhhhhhhhh. He's so accomplished that to explain *all* of his success away would take months. But damn if they don't try !

Desperate, suuuuuuuuuuuuuper angry halfwits.

Of course he had a bad game, so what, clearly so has Brady

>He’s legit had several games worse than any Brady has ever
>had in the postseason and you run to “different eras” and
>Walsh’s inclinations towards benching. He ain’t bench no
>other offensive starter in that game. He benched JOE. Because
>Joe was absolute garbage.

Joe never got blown out at home by Joe Flacco, TOM did.

I am unsure why this single bad game and benching is somehow supposed to supersede everything else I listed as why I put Joe above Tom? Just because you say so?

Sorry, but no.

And the idea that you are going to throw out OFFENSIVE STATS and then decry me mentioning eras is just completely idiotic and disingenuous. In the fucking NFL?

Is Matthew Stafford's 5K the same as Marino's??

Of course Brady isn't having any 120 yard passing games. No one is!

If you bring stats into a discussion of NFL offense over different eras, then "different league" is not only a reasonable point but it actually is NECESSARY for any reasonable debate.

and he got his ass BENCHED.

You have no where to turn.

NO ONE IS HAVING 120 yard GAMES? didn’t Legion of Boom lock Fraudgers dumb ass up a few years back for about 150 and get shredded by Brady two weeks later.

>and he got his ass BENCHED.
>
>You have no where to turn.

The benching is the strangest and least effective "deal-sealer" I can imagine. Especially considering that Walsh would pull Joe all the time to play Young for no apparent reason.

If Walsh sitting Joe is your trump card, so be it lol. I don't get it and don't see it having the talisman-like significance you are suggesting.


>NO ONE IS HAVING 120 yard GAMES? didn’t Legion of Boom lock
>Fraudgers dumb ass up a few years back for about 150 and get
>shredded by Brady two weeks later.

You tell me?

And then explain to me if the exception proves the rule?

And let me know if you think comparisons of NFL offensive stats across eras should take into account the way the league has changed during that time?


Thanks, MGMT

tom gotta lotta deal sealers. you just think you can talk them away.

98 yards and two picks in a 40+ loss. disgusting.

and he ain't have no damn 98, 2int game

or even them other two trash games against the giants. he ain't have them games.

Number of rings aint enough in the NFL

Emmitt Smith isn't the GOAT and people don't even agree he is better than Barry ringless ass


Not having Rice IS actually an argument, but it's a different league. Elite teams were stacked then, in ways they aren't now. It's just a fact. The Bears had a whole defense on Hall-of-Famers. It was just how teams were built.

But hey, Tom had the GOAT time head coach and GM, not Bill Walsh off his meds.

and the fact remains,


Joe more mobile

Joe has stronger arm

Joe threw with more touch

Joe had his best games on the biggest stage

Aggregate stats?


In football?


Because he played more years in a league where QBs are protected instead of being crash dummies?


You are right to hurry off

>
No, Marino had the stats, Montana was still the GOAT.


People had eyes and common sense

>

Point stands either way.

He has the unimpeachable SB performances and spotless records.

Or we can just go ahead and look at stats in context and Tom isn't passing Joe that way either.

you can take that "context" shit elsewhere. it was all good 5 years ago when everyone was sure Tom's run was over. he was gonna stay stuck on 3 and joe would still have 4.

then, brady exploded.

>
>you can take that "context" shit elsewhere. it was all good 5
>years ago when everyone was sure Tom's run was over. he was
>gonna stay stuck on 3 and joe would still have 4.

I am not responsible for what anyone else said but I am sorry that you are mad.

>
>then, brady exploded.

Dramatic!


Doesn't negate any part of my argument but sounds exciting.

I'm really not.


The longer he plays, in many ways, the more it shows how different this league is from that one.



And I am not a Joe Montana fan. I don't have to be a Jim Brown fan to say Emmitt isn't better than him.



You guys are gonna try this same thing with LeBron and Jordan; and judging by how eagerly this thread has been lapped up, it might even work.

and tom is better than both of them.

.

That and "All he needs is to get in field goal range at the end of the game." Already a bad talking point, but regardless I thought the Falcons Super Bowl deaded that forever. People like to play dumb, I guess.

>
>-brady's patience is undervalued. he takes those quick-hitters
>for 5-7 yards because they're there and there's no need to get
>greedy looking for huge gains

Right, he needs to throw bombs all the time just to impress people? We know he CAN it's just not the best idea 99% of the time.

>That and "All he needs is to get in field goal range at the
>end of the game." Already a bad talking point, but regardless
>I thought the Falcons Super Bowl deaded that forever. People
>like to play dumb, I guess.

And the Seahawks one. He dominated both.


>Right, he needs to throw bombs all the time just to impress
>people? We know he CAN it's just not the best idea 99% of the
>time.

It's so stupid. And not to mention - HE DID THAT SHIT. He's had middle-of-the-line receivers his whole career but the one time he had a burner he set the record for TDs in a season.

So he did that shit, too. And they didn't win a chip so they went back to basics because, as proven by P. Manning, Rodgers, Marino, et al, off-script missile-launchers aren't a long-term winning formula.

elevated because of rings and circumstance. there are people (even currently playing) better than SysTom at these things, and they don't play in the Belichick system or the AFC East and thus have free entry into playoffs every year.

all that says is that he's a Minecraft player who found football instead; even looks the part

I love ya Doc, but goddamn...

Disclaimer: I'm on one and mad at this blasphemy.

Montana undefeated so that ends your argument by itself. Jordan rule is the common rule oldheads use to shit on younger players.
Brady has to win five maybe six at most games a year outside of his division to make the playoffs. More often than not division games are guaranteed wins. They get a guaranteed playoff spot every year regardless of the schedule.

He is a system QB. Matt Cassel looked great in that system as well. How the fuck this alleged goat get outdueled by Nick Foles? This dude is the most overrated QB in NFL history.

A) In any given year most of the divisions in the NFL "suck". Lately there's like 2 good divisions.

B) What typically happens when they face off against teams from other divisions? They win... a lot. Y'all act like they have a .500 record against everyone else. They don't just get a bye to the Super Bowl guys.

Since Bill Belichick took over as coach of the New England Patriots, the team has gone on an incredible run. As it stands right now they don't have a losing record against any team in the NFL. In fact outside of the Panthers (3-3) and the Giants (3-3), they have a winning record against every other team.

Now, one of the main arguments for this has been that the Patriots have benefitted from playing in a weak division/conference. Being able to beat up on the lowly Bills, Dolphins and Jets has "padded" their record. Or "they wouldn't be as good if they were in the NFC." I'm about to show you why that's not the truth.

Patriots Win Percentage
The Patriots are a staggering 248-86 against the NFL since 2000, which equates to a .743 win percentage. So as a whole, the NFL has not done particularly well against the Pats.

If we break it down by conference, it looks like this:

Conference Win - Loss Win Percentage
AFC 187 - 64 .745
NFC 61 - 22 .735
So even with a smaller sample size, the conference breakdowns are pretty much even. Let's break it down by divisions.

Division Win - Loss Win Percentage
AFC South 41 - 9 .820
NFC South 17 - 5 .773
AFC North 32 - 10 .762
AFC East 83 - 29 .741
NFC West 14 - 5 .737
NFC North 16 - 6 .727
NFC East 14 - 6 .700
AFC West 31 - 16 .660

A few things stand out.

The AFC South has performed dismally against the Patriots, which even includes the Peyton Manning era Colts.

The Patriots difficulty with the Broncos (10-9) is the main reason the AFC West is at the bottom of this list.

The AFC East is smack dab in the middle of this list. Not nearly the cakewalk that the AFC South provides.

AFC East vs Everybody
This really only proves that the AFC East is just as bad as everyone else against the Patriots. But let's take it one step further. How has the rest of the AFC East performed vs other divisions since 2000? (Note: These numbers are through the end of the 2017 season).

Division W - L - T Win Percentage
AFC East 609 - 543 - 0 .520
NFC East 593 - 557 - 2 .515
NFC South 578 - 572 - 2 .502
AFC North 577 - 571 - 4 .501
AFC West 570 - 582 - 0 .495
NFC North 567 - 583 - 2 .492
AFC South 548 - 572 - 0 .489
NFC West 543 - 605 - 4 .471

Ok, this isn't really fair since we're including the Patriots in this. Obviously, if we remove the Patriots from the results the AFC will plummet:

Division W - L - T Win Percentage
NFC East 593 - 557 - 2 .515
NFC South 578 - 572 - 2 .502
AFC North 577 - 571 - 4 .501
AFC West 570 - 582 - 0 .495
NFC North 567 - 583 - 2 .492
AFC South 548 - 572 - 0 .489
NFC West 543 - 605 - 4 .471
AFC East 395 - 469 - 0 .457

But again, this isn't fair to the AFC East. What happens when we remove every season's division winners from each division?

Division W - L - T Win Percentage
AFC East 395 - 469 - 0 .457
NFC East 390 - 472 - 2 .451
NFC South 394 - 501 - 2 .439
AFC North 368 - 493 - 4 .425
AFC South 365 - 499 - 0 .422
AFC West 363 - 501 - 0 .420
NFC North 361 - 502 - 2 .417
NFC West 347 - 515 - 4 .401

Huh. The AFC East is back on top when you remove the best team from each division, which leads me to believe that the rest of the AFC East hasn't been "easy" by any stretch. In fact, it almost looks like the Patriots have played in the most competitive division in football over the past 17 years, and have still managed to put up historic numbers.

Edit: there's been a lot of conversation about how it was unfair to remove the division winner for each season, and the comparison should be removing the best teams from each division since 2000. So let's put that one to rest, too:

Division W - L - T Win Pct Best Team
NFC East 421 - 442 - 1 .487 Eagles (172-115-1)
NFC South 421 - 441 - 2 .487 Saints (157-131-0)
AFC West 401 - 463 - 0 .464 Broncos (169-119-0)
AFC East 395 - 469 - 0 .457 Patriots (214-74-0)
AFC North 389 - 472 - 3 .450 Steelers (188-99-1)
NFC North 389 - 474 - 1 .450 Packers (178-109-1)
AFC South 368 - 464 - 0 .442 Colts (180-108-0)
NFC West 382 - 479 - 3 .442 Seahawks (161-126-1)

Regardless how you run the numbers the AFC East is still not the easiest division, by a long shot.

Hopefully this puts to rest the myth of the "easy" AFC East.

>Disclaimer: I'm on one and mad at this blasphemy.
>
>Montana undefeated so that ends your argument by itself.
>Jordan rule is the common rule oldheads use to shit on younger
>players.
>Brady has to win five maybe six at most games a year outside
>of his division to make the playoffs. More often than not
>division games are guaranteed wins. They get a guaranteed
>playoff spot every year regardless of the schedule.
>
>He is a system QB. Matt Cassel looked great in that system as
>well. How the fuck this alleged goat get outdueled by Nick
>Foles? This dude is the most overrated QB in NFL history.

Dying @ how a QB can throw for 500+ yards in a record-setting effort and *still* get shit on because his defense couldn't stop a nose-bleed/his also-GOAT coach made the shittiest decision in league history. You people are desperate and pathetic.

Nick saved NFL fans from an off-season of Brady as GOAT hot takes. The GOAT should've beaten the Eagles since he's so great. Meanwhile Nick played the best game of his career and trashed that overrated team.

Did y'all Eagle fans give Nick the legend status he deserves?

sure...so Cassell put up 3700 yards, 21 TDs and 11 INTs in 2008. great season.

Tom Brady in 2007 only did 1000 more yards, 30 more TDs and 3 fewer INTS with the same main offensive talent (moss, welker, faulk, maroney/morris is basically even meh-ness at RB). oh, and they went 16-0 and went to the super bowl.

In 2009, returning from a year-long injury, Brady took that same team again and put up 600 more yards than Cassell, 7 more TDs and only 2 more INTs.

So yes, the system made Cassell great. And Tom was still definitively worlds better with the same system and players the year before and still significantly a tier above with the same system and players the year after but also returning from a year-long injury.

how does that help your point? when montana went down for half a season in 1986, Jeff Fucking Kemp did basically what Cassell did that half season.

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you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

How many you think could've won those ?

You think all those guys could've taken on the fucking Broncos in SB 24 yawnfest ? Or the overmatched Dolphins in 19 ?

tom's defense was his pau.

Jordan Rule would be 6. Not 6-0, just 6. the championship losses shouldn't be counted against anyone. Wins are better yes, but coming in 2nd shouldn't be worse than coming in 5th. Nobody cares about Magic's finals losses. He got 5, that's all that matters.

Lebron would love to get to 6. He probably won't and if he does it will be lining up with other superstars and will have detractors. Kobe wanted 6. He didn't care he lost a couple finals.

Brady got 6. 2 more than any other QB ever. No other QB been to more than 5. Oh, he's been to 9.

Eras also matter I get that. Bill Russell was a different era for NBA. If people want to prop Joe up more cuz this era is softer that's fine. Brady is the best of the last 25 years and not close any more.

dumbest fucking argument in sports and you, fittingly, are the one to bring it up as the dumbest fucking person on earth.

Aikman and Young better as well. Go undefeated then have a seat at the table.

You're doing it wrong.

Best of each era. All greats. Perfect evolutionary track for football's development. None perfect (who is), but no need tearing any down to big up another. If you needed to win a game, you would go to any one of them and they would deliver.

I could retroactively throw Montana on the Bucs and argue he wouldn't do shit and then you'd say "no, actually he'd make them great and they'd win a bunch of trophies"... but what's the point? Neither of us could be proven wrong or right, and similarly, nothing you do is gonna take away Brady's 6 titles. I know you'll keep trying though.

>

Peyton showed that he could get it done anywhere.

I feel people like Brees, Marino and Favre would've been great anywhere.

I don't see Tom being great without Belicheat.

is directly tied to Belicheat, he would be just a guy on another team.

Never heard that before.

but Peyton's numbers throwing to prime DThomas/Welker/Decker/JThomas are definitive about something?

que interesante

from favorable rules for offenses. Just Brady. Brees, Manning, and all the others would put up the same numbers in the 80's, but Brady would be average at best.

>
>I don't see Tom being great without Belicheat.

STEVE BONO.

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.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

defense that year but Bono did not have better passing numbers.

18-1* with Brady too lol



Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

.

the offense scored 40 more points in 1995 compared to 1994.

the offense improved PPG almost identically to the defense between 1994 and 1995 and that was against a more difficult schedule, btw.

Montana: 3200 yards, 16/9 in 14 games
Bono: 3100 yards, 21/10 in 16 games

STEVE BONO.

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you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

>the offense scored 40 more points in 1995 compared to 1994.
>
>the offense improved PPG almost identically to the defense
>between 1994 and 1995 and that was against a more difficult
>schedule, btw.
>
>Montana: 3200 yards, 16/9 in 14 games
>Bono: 3100 yards, 21/10 in 16 games
>
>STEVE BONO.


Montana was still BETTER and a shell of himself at 37-38 years old

super-impressive of him
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you think we playing chess, but i'm playing mad-making. Basaglia

>super-impressive of him

He's the GOAT of the entire game.

a hatchet to his career, like...."yeah, he won a buncha titles his first 7 years, but this is who he REALLY is...he can't win without the cheats"

whatever

.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

he might not have 6 rings, but he's an accurate QB who can take a hit. Put him on the 0-16 Browns and they win 9 games.

>Put him on the 0-16 Browns and they win 9 games.

and absent a kicker fuck up, and the refs gifting a game to Oakland, they would have won 10 games last season

we'll see next season, and KOPT taking that L

.
.
“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.” ~ Albert Einstein

"I cannot see how nature could have created itself. Only a supernatural force that is outside of space and time could have done that. ~ Francis Collins

Dude is an Eagles fan, they'll probably win the SB again next season lol...why the anger?


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg
http://Tupreme.com

with an elite pass rush/defense.

or other teams that have a consistent identity of sorts, like the Steelers or Donkeys.

but a team that's been all over the place like the Browns? As slow and reliant on a disciplined system he is? Nah.

he definitely ain't winning in Green Bay, where you basically have to LeBron yourself to wins cause the coach is dumb af

as for the Eagles? we'll see.

don't let them go up 2-1 on the Cheatriots in the Super Bowl because that's gonna be the end of it all