On the one hand, this loss is more about Todd Haley being insane, and the Steelers defense continuing to be a sham…

But sooner or later, these embarrassing playoff losses add up to something…


And if Ben was thinking about retirement before…and Bell talking about sitting out if he gets tagged…Joe Haden is gonna be done sooner or later

Then consider, outside of wide receiver and offensive line, this team's key players are all veterans; Shazier career probably over. TJ Watt got crowned halfway through the season, faded steadily and was invisible in this game. Dupree hasn't lived up to draft position. Their young corner Burns had a rough game.


The Steelers really needed to get to the SB last year or this year. Now what?

Cowher's entire career was crushing playoff losses until he finally won one.

The Steelers have always rebuilt, replaced veterans and continued strong. It's no different for them after this season. Sometimes you lose in the playoffs, he still has a title and a 2nd SB appearance, more than most coaches.

The probably won't.

Part of the questions is, should they?


This is a really, really bad loss.


The Jags could barely score against Buffalo, and just got 45 in Pittsburgh in January

You don't overreact to one game, or even a few games.

They don't?


I can name a bunch of "good teams" that fired good coaches.



That's not a real answer, that's a reason not to engage with the question. Which is fine.

People wanted Cowher out a dozen times before he ever won.

People want Tomlin out everytime he loses a game he should win.

The Rooney's don't fire based on a bad game or even a bad year or two. They understand great teams are built through consistency at the coach position. It's worked out well for the franchise, fans of pretty much every team minus 2 or 3 would wish for their last 20+ years, even if it's only been 2 championships in that time.

>People wanted Cowher out a dozen times before he ever won.
>
>People want Tomlin out everytime he loses a game he should
>win.
>
>The Rooney's don't fire based on a bad game or even a bad year
>or two. They understand great teams are built through
>consistency at the coach position. It's worked out well for
>the franchise, fans of pretty much every team minus 2 or 3
>would wish for their last 20+ years, even if it's only been 2
>championships in that time.

As a steelers fan, I already know that Mike's job is safe so I ain't gonna call for him to be fired but he has to take a lot of flack for this and some assistant coaches need to be replaced (see ya, Todd) at the very least. the dilemna of who replaces him is also something to consider because there's only one belicheck and he ain't coming here.

all the talk about Mike being some great coach because of his overall winning % and his super bowl win need to quiet down though. I love that a cool brother like him got a shot in a league notorious for overlooking certain positions (HC & QB) due to racism but just once could tomlin not get outcoached in a big game? Dude is cool as fuck and players love him but gotdamn can this nigga ever get the better of another coach or make in-game adjustments that aren't terribly obvious? If it's him deferring to his coordinators and they are reluctant to change up then it's still on him for not exercising his authority. These steelers teams have been too talented to flame out so early and have it not even be close in some cases. tomlin is losing me with his hyperbole and cliche press conferences every week and saying the right thing and looking the part (which I've come to realize is nearly as important as actually being a good coach in the NFL, since marvin been faking it and never making it due to this for so much longer than he shoulda been allowed to) but then the team he's leading doing nothing different and continuing to make dumb mistakes and continue to get beat our way instead of switching up. the steelers just aren't disciplined anymore and at times play stupid as fuck, i think part of the problem is him being too much of a players coach but that's one of his strong suits so that'll probably never change. I'm all for a coach who has players "willing to run through a brick wall for them" but i'd rather have a coach that shows them they can just walk right through the front door with proper preparation and strategy.

I guess i'll just have to accept that he'll be here until he has a few losing seasons and then the Rooneys MIGHT fire him. I'm realistic so my hopes for next year are that Ben doesn't hang it up, bell stays, we get an o-coordinator that can make our offense the juggernaut it's supposed to be, we pick up a FS with actual coverage skills, grab Evans or Jefferson in the draft to replace Shazier and that our talent-level is high enough to overcome our coach being horribly mediocre strategy wise.

>>People wanted Cowher out a dozen times before he ever won.
>>
>>People want Tomlin out everytime he loses a game he should
>>win.
>>
>>The Rooney's don't fire based on a bad game or even a bad
>year
>>or two. They understand great teams are built through
>>consistency at the coach position. It's worked out well for
>>the franchise, fans of pretty much every team minus 2 or 3
>>would wish for their last 20+ years, even if it's only been
>2
>>championships in that time.
>
>As a steelers fan, I already know that Mike's job is safe so I
>ain't gonna call for him to be fired but he has to take a lot
>of flack for this and some assistant coaches need to be
>replaced (see ya, Todd) at the very least.


This was a terribly coached game on both sides of the ball with 2 weeks of prep against an opponent that is very limited and has limited playoff experience.

the dilemna of who
>replaces him is also something to consider because there's
>only one belicheck and he ain't coming here.
>
>all the talk about Mike being some great coach because of his
>overall winning % and his super bowl win need to quiet down
>though. I love that a cool brother like him got a shot in a
>league notorious for overlooking certain positions (HC & QB)
>due to racism but just once could tomlin not get outcoached in
>a big game? Dude is cool as fuck and players love him but
>gotdamn can this nigga ever get the better of another coach or
>make in-game adjustments that aren't terribly obvious? If it's
>him deferring to his coordinators and they are reluctant to
>change up then it's still on him for not exercising his
>authority. These steelers teams have been too talented to
>flame out so early and have it not even be close in some
>cases. tomlin is losing me with his hyperbole and cliche press
>conferences every week and saying the right thing and looking
>the part (which I've come to realize is nearly as important as
>actually being a good coach in the NFL, since marvin been
>faking it and never making it due to this for so much longer
>than he shoulda been allowed to) but then the team he's
>leading doing nothing different and continuing to make dumb
>mistakes and continue to get beat our way instead of switching
>up. the steelers just aren't disciplined anymore and at times
>play stupid as fuck, i think part of the problem is him being
>too much of a players coach but that's one of his strong suits
>so that'll probably never change. I'm all for a coach who has
>players "willing to run through a brick wall for them" but i'd
>rather have a coach that shows them they can just walk right
>through the front door with proper preparation and strategy.
>
>I guess i'll just have to accept that he'll be here until he
>has a few losing seasons and then the Rooneys MIGHT fire him.
>I'm realistic so my hopes for next year are that Ben doesn't
>hang it up, bell stays, we get an o-coordinator that can make
>our offense the juggernaut it's supposed to be, we pick up a
>FS with actual coverage skills, grab Evans or Jefferson in the
>draft to replace Shazier and that our talent-level is high
>enough to overcome our coach being horribly mediocre strategy
>wise.

Steelers need to find a new defensive system. They haven't had a truly great D over there since…christ...

Steeler teams were undisciplined since Chuck Noll. This team lost its QB on defense in Shazier. Butler is Lebeau lite and while I thought he was the right guy he clearly doesn’t know how to dial up pressure without opening up huge running lanes. Everyone wanted man to man but it’s a bad idea when the QB can run.

Gotta upgrade this defense.

says alot about team discipline. I like Tomlin but.....

>says alot about team discipline. I like Tomlin but.....


I don't think that matters. They lost to this same team for similar reasons the first time.

That cost his team a chance to win this game.

In which case it was a great gutsy call.

The onside kick itself sucked, the other team put up 42 points on you and you had no ability to stop them. The call wasn't terrible, it was executed terribly.

and playing against Blake Bortles, you would think the smart decision is just kick it deep and play defense.

The drive right before that, when they got within 7 all they had to do was stop Bortles and he went the whole way down the field and scored again

The scoop and score wasn’t on the defense and the pick set up Jacksonville in the red zone at the Steelers 19 yard line.

The Steelers defense only gave up 14 points in the second half and they were playing relatively well in the second half.

I’m sure Jacksonville would have just ran it three times and then punt if they couldn’t get a first down. Giving the Steelers better field position and about 1:40 seconds to score the tying TD.

>
>I’m sure Jacksonville is would have just ran it three times
>and then punt if they couldn’t get a first down. Giving the
>Steelers better field position and about 1:40 seconds to score
>the tying TD.

Hindsight is fun, I can say I'm sure Jax would have run out the clock. Or I'm sure that if they executed the kick better they'd recover and go on and score.

He made a call, the play went poorly and the final score makes it seem like the game was lost on that call. The game was lost on more than that call and it's really easy to 2nd guess it when it fails. It would have been really easy to 2nd guess kicking off if they did that and never got the ball back.

Man, everyone is talking about how the Jags would’ve run 3 times and punted. They would have probably play action passwd on us like they did all damn day.

You had more than enough time to get a stop and have the ball in good field position. Instead you got the stop, but already set the team up in field goal range. It was a terrible call.

And then the penalty for illegal touching.

That being said, I think if the Jags has recovered the onside kick and been just outside of FG range they might have just went for it on 4th and less than one yard.

2 TOs and a 2 min warning. kick it deep. you miss the recovery and you automatically lose off a field goal

The terrible execution is what led to an automatic FG.

It's about risk-reward. And the fact that you are playing a very conservative offensive team.

EVERYONE is saying they would run it 3 times and more than likely they PA and dump it to a TE in the flat for the dagger.

When Bortles puts up 35 on your D I think it's ok to not trust your shitty defense.

onside kick was a reasonable tactic to try to steal it back

He deserves to be fired and I agree with all the alt right racist over reactionary Shitsburgh fans. Get Jim Fassel, Get Josh McDaniels, get someone with some racist teeth that's washed as fuck in there.

Signed,

The fans of every team in the AFC North

Lol

and if he doesn't get it together next year I could see us moving on when Ben retires.

Tomlin should be fine.

I think people are not giving the Jags their due credit or the Steelers for that matter for fighting like hell after being down three TDs. The 4th and 1, hey, if they hit that play that swings all the momentum in their favor. Loved the ballsy call. The onsides kick was a mistake give the time and timeout situation.

>I think people are not giving the Jags their due credit or
>the Steelers for that matter for fighting like hell after
>being down three TDs. The 4th and 1, hey, if they hit that
>play that swings all the momentum in their favor. Loved the
>ballsy call. The onsides kick was a mistake give the time and
>timeout situation.


I give the Jags all the credit in the world. But if I am a Steelers fan, this loss after last years loss, has me thinking.

Haley and Butler shit the bed, and that means Tomlin has to take heat.

.

Mistakes were made across the board and we obv underachieved. Get better, stay healthy, and let's get back next year.

they need to let that man call his own exit.

At this point, looks pretty barren out there.

That said, Steelers is not just ANY job.

But yeah, nobody really thinks he will get fired. But people have certainly been fired for less. Coughlin got two Super Bowls for Giants and his ass got shipped out for a vinyl siding salesman.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/steelers-owners-reportedly-lobbying-art-rooney-to-fire-mike-tomlin-after-playoff-debacle/

LOL

How're you going to explain this one?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/six-time-pro-bowler-ben-roethlisberger-im-not-allowed-check-quarterback-sneak-194209143.html

Haslam better have a G5 on the runway outside of Pitt with Tomlin's name on it.

Pretty sure he would go to the Giants

I'm fine with both of those


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steelers/2018/01/15/Ben-Roethlisberger-retirement-todd-Haley-offensive-coordinator-replacement-Randy-Fichtner-Mike-Tomlin-Jaguars-Patriots/stories/201801150139


Ben Roethlisberger said publicly on Sunday he will return to play in the 2018 season. He has told teammates he wants to play at least another three.

The question now becomes, who will be the Steelers’ offensive coordinator in 2018 and beyond?

Todd Haley just finished the final year of his contract, and it is not common for a Steelers coordinator to return under those circumstances. They usually sign extensions before they enter that final year, unless there’s a reason not to. The last one who ended his contract without an extension was ushered into “retirement” so they could hire Haley.

It appears the same might happen to Haley that Bruce Arians experienced after the 2011 season, although no one would call this one a retirement.


Ben Roethlisberger swears: He loves QB sneaks and Todd Haley
Haley has done some good things with the Steelers offense and with Roethlisberger at quarterback, particularly helping him cut down on the large number of sacks he had experienced throughout his career.

One thing he did not do, however, was build rapport among some of his staff or support among key players in that offense, including Roethlisberger.

Two days after their loss to New England in the AFC championship a year ago, Roethlisberger said on 93.7 The Fan that he was contemplating retirement. After he decided to return, he insisted concerns about his health, his family and recent CTE tests prompted retirement thoughts.

However, a Steelers source surmised that some biting words from Haley the day after the loss in New England prompted a frustrated Roethlisberger to bring up retirement publicly.

The coach and quarterback rarely talked along the sidelines, never huddled to discuss upcoming strategy while their defense was on the field. It came to a head when the coaches were unprepared to have a play ready when the Jesse James touchdown was overturned against New England.

Mike Tomlin made the unusual move at midseason to have quarterbacks coach Randy Fichtner leave the coaches’ booth for the sideline. It came at the behest of Roethlisberger, who wanted a “buffer” between him and Haley, according to a CBS report at the time.

Haley himself took to the booth in the preseason but explained it was merely to see if he might prefer working there during games rather than on the sideline. All denied it had anything to do with Roethlisberger, and Haley returned to the sideline once the regular season began.


He may not be on the Steelers sideline or in the booth for 2018. If not, Fichtner would be a strong candidate to replace him as coordinator.

Haley’s offense finished third in the NFL with an average of 377.9 yards per game in 2017, third in passing (273.8), eighth in points (25.4) and 20th in rushing (104.2), which has always been a Steelers staple.

They produced 545 yards and 42 points Sunday in their playoff loss to Jacksonville, the NFL’s second-ranked defense in 2017.

But then, they all proclaimed they have the best talent on offense in the league, as the All-Pro and Pro Bowl teams have backed. And the schism that has developed among the players and coaches on offense may override some of the production as they decide how to move forward.

Since Roethlisberger has told teammates his plans to play at least another three years, management must know too, and that would have to come as a relief because they can now plan accordingly.

There is no need to rush to draft a franchise quarterback for this year, especially since they will select low in the round again and have so many needs elsewhere. There is a pressing need at inside linebacker, safety and even halfback if they pass on making Le’Veon Bell their franchise player again and he does not come to terms on a contract.

There’s no question Roethlisberger remains at the top of his game, as his performance against Jacksonville can attest. Whether Haley returns to coach him again is the next question.

the NFL's continued insistence on hiring the same shitty coaches over and over for years on end.

Guys making the same mistakes with the same shitty ideas for years or decades on end.

It's embarrassing.

To me, Tomlin isn't part of this shitty dynamic. Assholes like Todd Haley are.

>the NFL's continued insistence on hiring the same shitty
>coaches over and over for years on end.
>
>Guys making the same mistakes with the same shitty ideas for
>years or decades on end.
>
>It's embarrassing.
>
>To me, Tomlin isn't part of this shitty dynamic. Assholes like
>Todd Haley are.

I CANNOT STAND Todd Haley but where is the evidence to support your opinion? The Steelers offense has been extremely successful under Todd Haley. They scored 42 points in their playoff loss. What exactly are his shitty ideas?

Who do you want teams to hire? It's not as though there are just tons of guys ready to jump into NFL coordinator positions outside of the established pipeline of college coaches and guys already working the lower rungs of the NFL.

You want new faces from new places? Marc Trestman came from the CFL and had two jobs and is gone. You want new ideas? Chip Kelly came and went and I probably had more positive things to say about him than most of this board.

Or if you just mean you want black people, even if they are also "retreads" please say so.

Last TD was padding but the other TD’s were 4th down bombs to the end zone and Ben throwing a lateral to Bell.

The problem with the offense is those 4th down calls. That’s Todd Haley all day. Dude has too many sub packages and most of our wins this year came from the no huddle after stalling for multiple quarters.

He also said he didn’t want Ben doing a QB sneak because he could get ear holed? WTF?

Haley has some nice play designs but his in game play calling is trash.

>Last TD was padding but the other TD’s were 4th down bombs
>to the end zone and Ben throwing a lateral to Bell.
>
>The problem with the offense is those 4th down calls. That’s
>Todd Haley all day. Dude has too many sub packages and most of
>our wins this year came from the no huddle after stalling for
>multiple quarters.
>
>He also said he didn’t want Ben doing a QB sneak because he
>could get ear holed? WTF?
>
>Haley has some nice play designs but his in game play calling
>is trash.


I am NOT a Haley fan. I started this post saying her should get fired. I just get annoyed with the hyperbole.

Given his track record, especially in Pittsburgh, to say Haley is a "shitty retread with shitty ideas" as an offensive coordinator seems like overdoing it.

and he isn't a bad OC but his personality and his substitutions are terrible.

There were some games where our left tacke, I repeat LEFT TACKLE, was split out wide and ran a pass route.

After the Jesse James TD was overturned vs the Pats Haley had Bell on the sideline for the last 2 plays. Dude refused to throw the fade to Martavis even tho he is a giant.

He's just too cute for his own good. We struggled to score points early in the year and it wasn't until the end of the game when Ben would go no huddle that we would pull out games.

He's just too rigid IMO.

>and he isn't a bad OC but his personality and his
>substitutions are terrible.
>
>There were some games where our left tacke, I repeat LEFT
>TACKLE, was split out wide and ran a pass route.
>
>After the Jesse James TD was overturned vs the Pats Haley had
>Bell on the sideline for the last 2 plays. Dude refused to
>throw the fade to Martavis even tho he is a giant.
>
>He's just too cute for his own good. We struggled to score
>points early in the year and it wasn't until the end of the
>game when Ben would go no huddle that we would pull out games.
>
>
>He's just too rigid IMO.

I agree on all of this, and I actually despise Todd Haley but I hate the hyperbole when it comes to coaching.

Todd Haley is a forward-thinking coordinator with some excellent play designs, who also happens to be a jerk, overly committed to his gamelans and at times makes baffling in-game decisions.

That's an actual assessment.

Smuts acts like you can just find better coordinators on the street.

>I CANNOT STAND Todd Haley but where is the evidence to support
>your opinion?

next question.

>>I CANNOT STAND Todd Haley but where is the evidence to
>support
>>your opinion?
>
>next question.

I thought you had some sort of cogent point to make but you are just saying stuff, which is fine.

because he was too stubborn to utilize one of the best RBs in the league and insisted on running a pass-first offense with shitty pass weapons?

He sucks, and he keeps getting jobs.

He was the head coach, and he actually got run out of town because the teams record didn't justify how terrible of a person and how awful of a work environment he created with his paranoia and agendas.


But I get the feeling you don't deal in nuance.


By all means though, who you think is a good OC? Who SHOULD be getting jobs? Who has some good ideas about offense in the NFL?

>He was the head coach, and he actually got run out of town
>because the teams record didn't justify how terrible of a
>person and how awful of a work environment he created with his
>paranoia and agendas.

He had *one* winning season (10-6 in a mediocre division), and was fired his third year when he was 5-8.

His coaching record was 19-26.

His offenses in KC ranked 25th, 13th and 29th.

So he had bad offenses, misused his players, lost games, and everyone hated him.

But other than that!

His offenses in PIT were more of the same until they magically got better when Le'Veon Bell got to town and Antonio Brown had his breakout season.

All it took was coaching three first-ballot HOFers.

But if you're going to give Haley credit for creating the best QB-WR-RB combo in the league, I'm not sure "nuance" is part of this convo.

Ride for Todd Haley bro, godspeed.

Edit:

Here are his offensive rankings since his one year in ARI. See if you can guess when he started coaching three HOFers:

Ari
2008 15th

KC
2009 25th
2010 13th
2011 29

Pit
2012 19th
2013 12th
2014 2th
2015 3th
2016 7th
2017 3th

>>He was the head coach, and he actually got run out of town
>>because the teams record didn't justify how terrible of a
>>person and how awful of a work environment he created with
>his
>>paranoia and agendas.
>
>He had *one* winning season (10-6 in a mediocre division), and
>was fired his third year when he was 5-8.
>
>His coaching record was 19-26.
>
>His offenses in KC ranked 25th, 13th and 29th.
>
>So he had bad offenses, misused his players, lost games, and
>everyone hated him.
>
>But other than that!
>
>His offenses in PIT were more of the same until they magically
>got better when Le'Veon Bell got to town and Antonio Brown had
>his breakout season.
>
>But if you're going to give Haley credit for creating the best
>QB-WR-RB combo in the league, I'm not sure "nuance" is part of
>this convo.
>
>Ride for Todd Haley bro, godspeed.

I can't stand Todd Haley, at all. Still waiting for you to tell me who the actual good coaches are and why

and that wasn't the first time.

Also had our Left Tackle out wide running a crossing route last year.

Haley was too cute for his own good.

You could put a Pop Warner coach in charge and they'd have an average offense.

I hear Bruce Arians needs a job

Really surprised Haley is still there

I remember he and Ben got into it a couple of years ago

really surprised by folks calling for Tomlin to fall on the sword

Think Arians comes back?

He wasn't too happy when they went the cheap route with him and didn't extend his contract. He loves Ben though, so who knows - maybe time has healed that rift.

Glad they let Haley walk though, wasn't a fan of that hire from day one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELm7V5uOQLc

THAT PHONE GETTING READY TO RING

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

he'll be a head coach again in no time




<=========================================
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Now they have a QB who actually practices and studies film.

This team is shredded and awful

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I love his press conferences


Pretty soon we wont have guys like that around

We need a McVey, we need a Sean Payton... we need an Andy Reid.

FOH.

What we needed was better players on defense.

and we still need better players on offense.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

especially at QB.

I’m just happy to see Tomlin haters wrong af and Ben fans stuttering when I said Tomlin could win without Ben

He made that move with the absolute quickness

People were talking about Rudolph as the Ben heir apparent
at one point

<=========================================
https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/PYzh4v9cSf4FDnq3yMQyqNqh79o=/800x0/filters:no_upscale%28%29/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/4079674/jlio.0.gif

Thats the crazy part....dude is 47. He got like 20 years left of coaching (if he wants)

They gonna lose in the conference finals in the chiefs, and people will yell for his job, which means you can do this again in two years when he continues to make fools look like fools

Just goes to show that the best organizations know how to keep it moving.....

Tomlin is a great coach.

they run that shit how they want and if nothing else, at WORST they are always a respectable and competitive team.

but I swear, when I hear them scream to fire Tomlin my first thought is.. “y’all must be new fans”

Cause any true Steeler fan knows we aren’t firing Tomlin. He will leave when he is good and ready to leave on his own.

when the Steelers decide on someone...

A lot of Steeler fans are racist assholes. I'm embarrassed by it and if it weren't for the Rooneys being who they are I wouldn't fuck with this.

They talked mad shit when Dan Rooney was named ambassador to Ireland by Obama.

They are openly racist about Tomlin.

But they stick around as fans even though the Steelers ownership are "commie liberals".

Franklin rescued PSU after the Paterno stuff and those fans want him fired every year.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Those mfkrs were even worse. Had the nerve to try to walk into traffic for Paterno when he was harboring and helping a man rape kids.

peace & blessings,

x.

www.twitter.com/poetx

=========================================
I'm an advocate for working smarter, not harder. If you just
focus on working hard you end up making someone else rich and
not having much to show for it. (c) mad

https://www.hugedomains.com/domain_profile.cfm?d=coolehmag&e=com

.

Tomlin will be a lock if they win this another with him at the helm.

>Tomlin will be a lock if they win this another with him at
>the helm.

what about right today?

I say yes but y'all act like Pittsburgh fans ain't been ready to send his ass packing a few times. Dude has made lemonade out of outhouse water for several seasons, and when he has the horses, they always do well.

what is his streak they showed? winning record in his first 13 seasons and counting? he will hold the record by himself this year.

People also forget he was the DB coach for the Tampa team with the SB record wirh 5 INT’s and 3 returned for TD’s.

If he was white they would be calling Tomlin one of the best to ever do it given his age and win/losses.

I mean, you said he should be fired two years ago so I'm just curious where everyone stands now

and my words shouldn’t be used against me.. lol

and can't seem to figure out what to do with it. Hmmmm.

breh gonna have that job until he doesnt want it. angry white fans be damned lol

most Steeler fans or Tomlin detractors always use Ben as a shield when dumping on Tomlin.

Tomlin can win without Ben and honestly, Ben has been so awful in playoff games lately its actually part of the reason Tomlin was on the “warm seat”

but its Pittsburgh and we don’t fire our head coaches when they are successful or have a few bumpy years.

We stay the course.

Haven't gone back through the whole thread but which part of this was wrong?

Their window is gone.

Mike Tomlin is a good coach, I just asked if he ran out of time in Pittsburgh. Apparently not. I personally dont have anything against the guy besides the time he tried to trip a guy.


But make no mistake…the Steelers window did close, even if they haven't admitted it yet.

If Ben actually HAD retired, they would probably be better off.

Oh shit, thanks!

but fans don’t want to accept that because they think Ben was the reason for all our success.

Doesn’t matter tho.. I think fans have been blinded by the Patriot success with Brady.

Its not normal for teams to reach 3 or 4 SB’s with one coach in a 12 year career.

Okay, not sure if I agree with timeline but we are both on the same page of where the Steelers are now.

Last years Saints but in the AFC