He looks too frail for the league but he’s beasting in college...

He’s obviously a monster at the college level.

In terms of pro potential, I see one of two paths: terrific starting PG/leader/deadeye shooter for a good team... or a proficient backup who can score in bunches and make the right pass when needed but ultimately never blows up due to relative physical deficiencies. But he’ll be drafted lotto by a team praying that he’s the next Steph, and I think ultimately he’s a pretty high basement player in that he’s high IQ, a great shooter/passer, and not afraid. I want to see him in Big 12 play before I decide exactly where I think he’ll land.

And if he somehow one-man-teams OU into toppling Kansas and winning the Big 12? The media frenzy declaring him the next Steph will be DEAFENING. I’m not convinced he’s that, obviously... but I’ve seen enough to know that he’s insanely skilled for his age and I’m going to love watching him play this year.

>And if he somehow one-man-teams OU into toppling Kansas and
>winning the Big 12? The media frenzy declaring him the next
>Steph will be DEAFENING.

He won the first few games and it became deafening... and it remained mostly deafening even as the team crumbled and collapsed.

change of pace. he got it
unselfishness. he got it
killer instinct. he got it.
getting that thang up anywhere and everywhere. he got it.

>He looks too frail for the league but he’s beasting in
>college...

dude will be trey burke in the league...if he even makes a roster.

and trey burke was a better college player.

>dude will be trey burke in the league...if he even makes a
>roster.

>and trey burke was a better college player.
>
>>dude will be trey burke in the league...if he even makes a
>>roster.
>


www.Tupreme.com

Kyrie has a title and was a major factor in winning said title and is certified elite talent.

he doesn't belong in this convo.

.

His shot selection is a little sketchy.

no.

i can't remember a so called "good" team (or at least at one time called good) with such poor coaching when it comes to an offensive philosophy or scheme.

with so little guidance, he's basically being forced to make it up as he goes. he's gonna do some dumb shit here and there.

and i don't e'en like dude like that but i low key feel bad for the kid. he had to carry the weight of that whole team thanks to lack of coaching.

He was dishing the rock well but those shots were just dumb.

His choice: "Let me move closer to the hoop." Simple.

But he would benefit immensely with one more year

Showcase himself more
Add muscle on a plan
Improve his long-range shooting

He could be special but my concern is him being Buddy Hield

>Showcase himself more
>Improve his long-range shooting

get money.

Most of his bad habits are exposed because Kruger has said "it's your team, you do whatever." So while this gives Young the freedom to make the brilliant plays he's capable of making, it's also what causes the turnovers and the poor shot selection.

If he came back sophomore year, it'd be more of the same. And his stock would take a serious tumble.

... Would you stay at Oklahoma?

I am chasing the bag. Worst case scenario is I wind up a scrubby ass gunner but NBA rich.

Dude gets away with letting his players run and
chuck consistently, never gets consistently criticized

How is that?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

His high school coach let him play the same way and now, he's developed some bad habits with shot selection and turnovers and never learned to play off the ball.

Imagine Trae coming off of Floppy or Iverson cut or something to get an open show or one of those elevator plays. That would have made the team much better as it would have given them a ton of more ways to give him chances to score. But it also would have added another layer to his game and thus made him a much better prospect.

Lon should be ashamed of himself.

Twitter: http://twitter.com/djwadeo
Youtube: http://youtube.com/wadeoradio
Facebook: http://facebook.com/wadeoradio
The Gram: http://instagram.com/iamdjwadeo

My Free Podcast: https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/wade-o-radio-weekly-podcast/id203426032?mt=

I'm definitely taking Ayton...and even Bagley ahead of him...

lock that team up, Atlanta

Bottom line. There are no absolutes.

Never know how things are going to pan out for a team or player.

you so want to believe that too

His 2nd season is absolutely better than Stephs 2nd season.

He is, hilariously, first in offensive plus minus in the NBA and *last* in defensive plus minus in the NBA. The absolute true definition of a one-dimensional player, but holy shit, what a dimension. He's def better on offense than second year Curry... but Curry, never a great defender, was never as terrible on defense as Trae is.

Because he's so awful on defense, Atlanta will desperately need for him to have a Klay and Dray to make up for his lack of D. But right now, most of the players with defensive potential are too young and the rest are just bad at it. If Jabari Parker is third on your team in DPM, you are a very, very bad defense, lol.

Come on bro. The comparison between those two will
Never be about defense. They both suck. That’s a conversation that can’t be had.

We all saw kyrie abuse curry. I’m taking no sides here...just saying

Kyrie, Curry, trae...will never be known for anything defensively. So when comparing the three or two, you can’t use defense as an argument.

Also to everyone else saying trae ...hell and no.

Trae is shooting 43 pct fg, stef is closer to 50 percent at 47 pct
Fg

And three point shooting? It’s a blood bath. Curry was shooting close to 45 pct in his first three years, and is still shooting around that number . Trae? He is a weak 34 pct 3pt shooter. 34 pct! Trae scores because of volume. Stef scores because of efficiency

Please do not put trae in the same sentence with Steph. Please

Binky is a one-trick GOD

the only thing relevant about the 3pt shooting is that Trae has the ability to shoot it from Dunwoody on any given night, Trae is a "Steve Nash" type guard who can score his ass off

Lol

You better go look at those fg pct and 3pt pct again. Trae is atrocious and is just jacking up shots, getting points of volume.

Efficiency matters tremendously and Trae ain’t even close.

Steph was basically a 50/40/90 guy in his second year in the league. He was already the best shooter in the league.

This shit absolute nonsense.

Yes, Steph is and always will be better at shooting than Trae. Luckily, we're adults and we're able to understand that offense is more than shooting.

2nd year Steph:

Assist rate: 28.1%
Turnover rate: 16.4%
Free throw rate: .216

2nd year Trae:

Assist rate: 46.1%
Turnover rate: 16.0%
Free throw rate: .448

No one would argue that Trae is a better shooter than Steph. He's not, and he likely won't ever be, as Steph is probably the greatest shooter who ever lived. But compared to second year Steph, Trae's PG skills are miles ahead-- he's a significantly better passer, and even though his assist rate is significantly higher, his turnover rate is *lower.* He also gets to the free throw line at a significantly higher rate.

These are the big reasons why the following stats are what they are:

2nd year Steph:

True shooting percentage: .595
PER: 19.4

2nd year Trae:

True shooting percentage: .598
PER: 24.5

Even though Steph is the better shooter, Trae has the slightly better true shooting percentage, because Trae gets to the line much more, Trae has a slightly better 2 point shooting percentage, and Trae takes a higher rate of 3s than Steph did, meaning that even with lower shooting percentages from distance and the stripe, Trae is generating points per possession at a slightly more efficient rate.

I also posted the PER here because you've been trying to knock Trae's efficiency, when, in terms of on-the-floor production across the board, there's no real denying that Trae's offense is currently more efficient. He's a less efficient pure shooter, but he's more efficient at nearly everything else on offense.

2nd year Steph:

Win shares per 48: .128
Offensive plus/minus: 3
Defensive plus/minus: -.7
Plus/minus: 2.3
VORP: 2.7

2nd year Trae:

Win shares per 48: .145
Offensive plus/minus: 6.5
Defensive plus/minus: -2.1
Plus/minus: 4.3
VORP: 3.2

All the advanced numbers match the eye test too. All of the things mentioned above result in higher positive impact on the floor-- higher win share per 48, better plus minus (more than *double* Steph's on offense), better value over replacement player. It'd be one thing if Trae was only ahead in, like, one of these things... but if you're better in *all* of them? Then you may have to consider that Trae is better offensively than Steph was at this point in his career.

And, worth noting that what I said above about Trae's awful defense also applies here too. Those defensive plus minus numbers are staggeringly low, and that too matches the eye test. I know you said "oh guys like Kyrie and Steph were never known for their defense"-- of course they aren't, no one argued that. But it's a lot easier to be a winning team if you have a star with mediocre defense than if you have a star with possibly the worst defense in the entire league. You may suggest that bad is bad and the incremental differences don't matter... but they pretty clearly do.

(Not that all of this information will matter, as I'm sure someone will just reply with "you and your advanced metrics, all that matters is shooting numbers!" or something. I mostly just posted it for any discerning adult interested in seeing these numbers. Because Trae offensively really is doing some special stuff this season, and comparing it with Steph, one of the greats on offense in the history of the league, really helps contextualize just how special Trae's offense is this year.)

In Curry’s MVP year, Curry went 30/8/5, led the league in steals, shot 50 percent, 45 from 3, and 93 percent from the line. The fact that you had to dig deep into analytics to prove absolutely nothing, when the basic stats tell the story. Steph is the better and more efficient PG across the board

Steph is the more all around complete PG.

Missing shots is turning the ball over. So a pg who is shooting BELOW avg in fg and three point shooting = a bad pg where his shooting kills everything else that he does

See Russell Westbrook

Why do you think Russ is having s great year? He stop putting up bricks, which was killing his team and PG ability. Russell Westbrook is a triple double machine , but no one will ever say that he is a better PG than Chris Paul who has lower assist numbers , but Chris Paul is the more efficient player and shooter. Russell is having his best shooting year at 47 percent from the field , but his assist and rebound numbers are down! He will not avg a triple double this year. However he is more complete than ever
before.

Trae ain’t even close to complete, because his inefficient offensive ability is killing his gsme.

So Until that is corrected Please don’t put him in the same category as a three time champion, mvp, complete all around PG such as Steph.

>
>In Curry’s MVP year, Curry went 30/8/5, led the league in
>steals, shot 50 percent, 45 from 3, and 93 percent from the
>line. The fact that you had to dig deep into analytics to
>prove absolutely nothing, when the basic stats tell the story.
>Steph is the better and more efficient PG across the board
>
>Steph is the more all around complete PG.

You're constructing a strawman argument, because no one in here is comparing present-day Trae to Steph's peak. They're comparing second year Trae to second year Curry. Which is the logical thing to do. But you don't want to address that. It's all good.

>Missing shots is turning the ball over. So a pg who is
>shooting BELOW avg in fg and three point shooting = a bad pg
>where his shooting kills everything else that he does

Trae Young shoots well above the league average in both FG% and 3P%. So that's factually wrong. But again. It's all good.

>See Russell Westbrook
>
>Why do you think Russ is having s great year? He stop putting
>up bricks, which was killing his team and PG ability. Russell
>Westbrook is a triple double machine , but no one will ever
>say that he is a better PG than Chris Paul who has lower
>assist numbers , but Chris Paul is the more efficient player
>and shooter. Russell is having his best shooting year at 47
>percent from the field , but his assist and rebound numbers
>are down! He will not avg a triple double this year. However
>he is more complete than ever
>before.

Cool. Something that has nothing to do with any other arguments in this post. All good.

>Trae ain’t even close to complete, because his inefficient
>offensive ability is killing his gsme.

As shown above, Trae is absolutely not inefficient this season on offense. But I didn't expect you to read the above anyway, so it's all good.

>So Until that is corrected Please don’t put him in the same
>category as a three time champion, mvp, complete all around PG
>such as Steph.

Cool. Ryan mentioned comparing second seasons of both players, so I did. That's why I joined the convo in the first place. But you knew that already. Or you didn't. Who really knows? It's all good either way, man.

I’m confused. If you say you were just referring to their first 2 years, and we are talking about stats, then why did you disregard stef’s shooting percentages when they are far superior. We are comparing their abilities across the board, which means everything.


Also, trae is not shooting league avg. trae is shooting 44.1 fg. this season. League avg is .459. And his total for his career ( this year and last year combined) is 43 percent and 34 pct from three...all below league.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html



So again. I’m not understanding.


Stat padding assists and rebounds with shitty shooting across the board and putting up points off tons of attempts, if that is what you call being better, then I’m speechless.

To paint a better picture:

In steph’s second season he put up 14 fg attempts: 4.6 3pt and 9.6 2pt attempts.

Trae is putting up : 20 fg attempts : 11 2pt attempts and 9 3pt Attempts. Trae is clearly jacking way more shots ( especially 3s) , but far less efficient.

Volume shooting and padding stats. Nothing to see here. he is just a better shooting version of Westbrook .

>So again. I’m not understanding.

I get it. It’s all good.

It’s cool. I get the condescending. So yeah it’s all good.

But you stated that Trae is shooting WELL above league average and he CLEARLY is not ....for the season and his 2 years combined. Just for the record.

>But you stated that Trae is shooting WELL above league average
>and he CLEARLY is not ....for the season and his 2 years
>combined. Just for the record.

I had the wrong number for 2P%. (See? It's not hard to admit when you misread something.)

League averages this year:
45.9% FG, 35.7% 3PT, 77.1% FT

Trae averages this year (the only season being discussed at any point):
44.1% FG, 36.3% 3PT, 86.2% FT

So you're right. His 2P% is below average for the league. I imagine it's above average for guards, but that doesn't matter-- I had the wrong number for that stat. So I offer that correction.

I double checked my other numbers, and they are all correct (or were at the time of my post, I suppose he may have played another game since then), so the rest of my post remains the same, of course. You continue to try to change the subject to something else. Ryan mentioned a comparison between second year Steph and second year Trae. That's all I've ever addressed. And the facts are what they are. If you'd like to continue to either deflect or pretend the argument is something else (not sure which you're doing), that's all good. If you'd like to address the actual topic at hand, I'd be more than happy to engage with you without condescension, but since you haven't seemed willing to do that, I don't really have a choice.

And before you keep trying to insist on other arguments, I'll just hit on a few of them here. Of course Trae's first year was far more inefficient. That's why I wrote what I wrote about him when he was at Oklahoma above. You can see that I felt the exact same way you do about him. And literally no one who is worth acknowledging on this board would bet money that Trae's career numbers will pass Steph's career numbers. Again, not an argument being made by anyone coherent. And no one is saying Trae is a better shooter than Steph. Again, not an argument being made.

But this year, Trae's offense is notably more efficient than it was as a rookie-- extraordinarily so in fact. And that's why this season in particular is worth talking about. Perhaps it's a blip on his radar and he'll sink back to Earth next year. Or, more excitingly, maybe he'll continue to get even *better* on offense. But when your second year in an NBA uniform has offense that is more efficient or comparably efficient to the second years of many of the best guards the league has seen in the last couple decades? It's worth pointing that out. Because Trae's true shooting, his assist rate, his turnover rate, his impact on the floor? They're really remarkable, man. Arguing against what he's done this year offensively is a losing game.

I'm happy to have you address my topic. Or not. You're free to do as you wish. But as the point I'm making is clear, I don't really feel compelled to reply to any other deflections or topic changes.

Thank you for you clarification. It was wonderful to see, and maybe I did get off topic, so lets move forward.

Here is how Tra's first 2 years are not better than Steph's. Let's start with shooting and points. As I already pointed out, Trae is taking 21 shots per game compared to Steph taking 14 shots per game in an era that wasn't focused on putting up more threes than twos. It is because of Steph that the league changed to a three point league, which started when GS started winning titles. Teams started launching 3s to compete. Hell, Houston changed their entire system to prepare for GS, and that was all due to Curry. Because teams feared his shooting.....

Now Imagine if Steph were in his second year in this era? He would be avg 30 a game, or more, like he did during his MVP year. So he would have the same shot attempts as Trae, similar scoring, but wayyyyy more efficient. Once 3 pointers became a focal point, Steph avg has been around 27 points a game. So Trae's increase in points is simply due to this era of putting up more shots and more threes, an era created by Curry ( lol). But as he is jacking up more shots, he is still sub average as a scorer. Let me know when he gets above 45 percent, and gets to at least 38 percent from 3. So for me, this is still Steph.

Rebounds. This total is pretty much even. In Steph's first year, he avg 4.5 rebounds. In Trae's first year, he avg 3.7 rebounds. In Steph's second year, he avg 4.0 rebounds. Trae, now in his second year, is avg 4.5 rebounds. So they both basically avg 4 rebounds a game in their second year. And bledsoe, rubio, brogdon are avg the same as well as other starting PGs


Assists. This is the biggest form of stat padding. Curry avg 6 assists in his second year. Trae is avg 9 assists, a 3 point difference. But again, we are in an era of three point shooting, where the floor is spread, and everyone is jacking threes, so you you get an assist from simply passing a ball to someone who hits a three. How many of those assists are real assists putting a player in a high fg percentage situation? We know that's all that the warriors do, is constant backdoor cuts to the basket, and leading from the elbow to the basket.However, I'll give it to Trae because the numbers are greater. So if you want to say that Trae is a better passer than Steph, cool.


But other than that, there is nothing that Trae is doing that is better than what Steph did in his second year or first two years.

If you were to ask anyone, who would you rather have in their second year, steph or trae? It wouldn't be close. The efficiency of Steph in his second year ( where Trae aint even in the same universe) plus everything else completely beats out Trae as the better all around PG in his second year.

Trae is great, and I’m a fan.

But the problem was the Steph comparisons. He is not Steph,
and once he just focused on his game, he got better.

And after what Steph did this year? Come on.

>Trae is great, and I’m a fan.
>
>But the problem was the Steph comparisons. He is not Steph,
>and once he just focused on his game, he got better.
>
>And after what Steph did this year? Come on.

There's no guarantee that Trae will be as good as Steph is NOW but at age 22 Steph was nothing like what Trae is.

I was a little anxious to click back on this post lol

dude throws up some ridiculous 45 footers but he is dishing the rock like crazy

I didn’t want to like him because hair screams.. “please hate me” but I am a fan.

https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/sixers/nba-playoffs-hawks-trae-young-caught-selling-game-4-foul-call

out the other day dude was rolling around like he had been shot lol. They showed the Jimmy Butler play from earlier this year.

Remember when the league started flopping fines? Then it they just stopped being enforced? Players have no reason not to do it…plus, they’ve recognized that refs are calling the reaction, more than the actual foul. A dude gets his face touched…he’s gonna violently throw his head back and almost break his own neck. I love Bron…but that shit he did in the game against the Suns…he almost dislocated his own shoulder, trying to sell the foul. Did Trae get fouled right there. Absolutely. He got hit in the face…but if he lays on the floor and writhes in agony, maybe it gets looked at and upgraded. The league/refs have fostered this and they need to fix it.

Players have no reason not
>to do it…plus, they’ve recognized that refs are calling
>the reaction, more than the actual foul.

The league/refs have fostered this and they need to
>fix it.

The players would stop selling fouls if they knew it wasn't effective.

I wish more people would listen to The Whistle Blower podcast.
Totally changed my thinking on NBA refs.

but lets be real.. the NBA has always been bitches when it comes to MBA stard and fouls

All they have to do is the Kobe scream “AYYYEEE” while shooting and a foul is called 75% of the time

Play was over
Ball was off the rim, rebounded and we were in transition the other way...

Because of that, the cameraman wasn't focused on the players on the ground, so I didn't see the little peek-a-boo

FTR, I'm not putting the blame on the players
I also don't like it when Embiid does it
That's not basketball

What I want to know is...wouldn't the refs see the acting/peek-a-boo on the replay...?

As already has been posted, what happened to the anti-flopping penalties?

The league decided this was good for the game?

IMO, they need to go even further now
The complaining after ever play is terrible to watch too

The NBA has a real chance to advance their brand with all of the fokery from the NFL

...but these games are really hard to watch...

its okay if a star player hits the floor or misses a basket.

I hate how easy it is to draw fouls.

Capela touched his arm and he fell on the ground…and the refs rewarded him.

and I’ve said repeatedly...I don’t like when Embiid does it either

He definitely baited Capela on that one

But he did take a swing

Let’s talk about Trae kicking out his leg on literally the first possession...and getting the call
Jumping into people after pump fakes
Stopping in front of people with the dribble

The NBA has made these points of emphasis...yet here we are...

But yes, Embiid does it too...and I’m not clapping to that either

It’s all B$

Foul baiting is not basketball.

I was pointing out another example of what we discussed, earlier…how the players have been groomed to give maximum reaction, in order to get the calls they want.

It will be interesting to see how he fairs if the league addresses the foul baiting

But that shot from the logo...yeah, there will always be a roster spot for a guy that can make that shot

Nate's criticisms of him were evident last night

He balled out, no question

But all the antics, on every play...looked like his team mates were relegated to spectators

Reminds me of Embiid

Before this season he was way too interested in mixing it up, talking $hit to fans, etc...

Just play ball.