Lots of stuff coming down the pike. Shield triple threat. Wyatts vs. New Day. Brand split. McMahon drama for some reason.

http://www.wwe.com/article/roman-reigns-suspended?sf29302844=1

I was more surprised that he lost clean than I was that Ambrose cashed in. This explains it.

He's definitely juicing right? I actually think he has a good head and his shoulders and seems too lucid to smoke weed. But who knows.

(aside: How has Cena NEVER been busted?)

he's actually really chill IRL.

the policy specifically says first offense (non alcohol, non marijuana). it's gotta be gear.

>http://www.wwe.com/article/roman-reigns-suspended?sf29302844=1

WWE has been given one helluva excuse to move the Kid down a bit for a while (even if they don't really care all that much).

I just don't see how he ends up still being in the triple threat match with this widely known suspension hanging over his head. Owens or AJ need to slide right on up in there. Or maybe they'll use this as the excuse to bring back Haitch.

I'd prefer BG Rollins vs Haitch at the Summerfest Games, but whatever. It is the summertime. They need to be borderline Russo with it right now..just book as many dope ass matches as possible.

"The one time we want you in a match and you fucking blow it!"

Seems unlikely they'd build to a match without him on TV, but Battleground is on July 24 and that's more than 30 days.

I'd say they knew before MITB, but then why book him in a triple threat knowing he'd be gone the entire time they were building?

this had to have been just found out today

what i'm really interested in is how it will be addressed on Raw.

but the triple threat booking is baffling.

that's why he keeps hitting so many pedigrees and they're shotgunning the Shield triple threat. Even though it would make for a great Summerslam main event.

it just seems like the triple threat is their biggest potential moneymaker, at least out of matches that don't involve Brock. I'm sure they'll do some wacky ending and leave the legitimate triple threat for a bigger event, but if it's the second time around it simply won't feel as special.

I think it was actually the PPV that came BEFORE Mania that year, which just made no sense to me. It was a hell of a match though.

Outlaws and Kane got squashed by the Shield. Not that there's anything wrong with that booking per se, but the story is the show was running long and that was the match that got cut down. Quite underwhelming given how hot they were at the time.

____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on

Show the world how vigiliant they are and get people off their back for a little.

The timing of this coinciding with them realizing Roman wasnt drawing seems really strange and makes me think they are throwing him under the bus now for a thing they've known for a while. But yea, they love talking about drug suspensions in the news.

...but I've always found Cena's accelerated injury returns to be fishy

I've narrowed it down to one of two things:

- either Cena recovers especially fast because he pumps even more gas and HGH following surgery and the company looks the other way because they're desperate to have him around

Or

- some of these injuries have been bogus through the years and he's actually served a few suspensions that were swept under the rug


I think my first hunch is mostly true, and I can't help but think my second hunch occurred before. So, yes, I suspect that either way Cena has gotten passes on a few occasions. And again, can't stress this enough, I have absolutely no evidence for thinking this way. But I do still have my eyeballs and common sense; an adult male can't look like that naturally or defy science so consistently.

>...but I've always found Cena's accelerated injury returns to
>be fishy
>
> I've narrowed it down to one of two things:
>
>- either Cena recovers especially fast because he pumps even
>more gas and HGH following surgery and the company looks the
>other way because they're desperate to have him around
>
>Or
>
>- some of these injuries have been bogus through the years and
>he's actually served a few suspensions that were swept under
>the rug
>
>
>I think my first hunch is mostly true, and I can't help but
>think my second hunch occurred before. So, yes, I suspect that
>either way Cena has gotten passes on a few occasions. And
>again, can't stress this enough, I have absolutely no evidence
>for thinking this way. But I do still have my eyeballs and
>common sense; an adult male can't look like that naturally or
>defy science so consistently.

Look here: you could be right. But Cena is Jordan status so we won't know about any of it for years if ever. And by then, he's already home free unless he's been out there Cosbying or Ike-ing chicks.

I can buy the first hunch over the 2nd if I'm only picking one.

Dude could just be a supreme jock being. Or he's a bit of that with some occasional cheating. But WWE wouldn't dare fuck off Cena's image just to prove that they're sin-sir about wellness. They wouldn't even turn him heel temporarily when more than half the crowd was overtly sick of him as supercena.

Not knowing any details about his wellness violation so that's on him but he works hard, has great matches but people aren't digging him through WWE's errors so he's subsequently deemed as someone who doesn't draw. They had a perfectly ready made heel right there if they would have veered from their game plan but they've hurt his career despite him delivering in the ring.

As I say, if he broke the wellness violation, that's on him though.

I read that the house shows weren't drawing with Roman as champ. What does that mean? Do people really decide whether they're going to watch live wrestling depending on who's the champ?

I agree with you about they've damaged his career. He is still young and has plenty of tools though. It looks like they are ready to back off of him being the new Cena which is where all of the issues started.

People quickly forgive and forget when they hate a wrestler once the wrestler starts doing things they like.

As for the draw, I think there is only some stock that can be put into that kind of stuff but there is some meaning too it. Sometimes they react to quick like when PPV buys were down for 2 months when Daniel Bryan was champ after beating Cena and they determined it was Bryan's fault alone.

In this case though, the comparison was that shows headlined by Ambrose in smaller markets were doing as well as shows headlined by Reigns in bigger markets. While 1 man does not make everyone come or not come out, it is significant that the big market shows were doing the same numbers as small market shows. Combine that with the general reaction they have been hearing and eventually you have to reverse course.

Interesting points about draws etc. I never really read too much into it before but I guess there's definitely more to it. I also thought that Ambrose was just going to end up as an interim champ but he may do significantly better out of this scenario than I thought he would.

the "you can't wrestle" chants started and a good portion of the crowd responded "yes he can." The tweener role has been a step in the right direction, but I agree full heel would be better. When he comes back I don't think they'll have a choice, so he can easily recover. Vince will probably want to make an example out of him booking-wise for a few months at least though.

>Not knowing any details about his wellness violation so
>that's on him but he works hard, has great matches but people
>aren't digging him through WWE's errors so he's subsequently
>deemed as someone who doesn't draw. They had a perfectly ready
>made heel right there if they would have veered from their
>game plan but they've hurt his career despite him delivering
>in the ring.
>
>As I say, if he broke the wellness violation, that's on him
>though.
>
>I read that the house shows weren't drawing with Roman as
>champ. What does that mean? Do people really decide whether
>they're going to watch live wrestling depending on who's the
>champ?

Rasslin promoters aren't above being stuck in the past with what they 'measure'. AJ has allegedly been the house show king his whole time in wwe. Hell, he was pretty friggin over at that raw after mania too. He went through the crowd slapping hands for like forever after the show.

Those rando live shows are pretty marky. And the innanet going on and on about how much the kid sucks can't help since anyone can search and find the same commentary. And when someone who barely watches but will take their kids to a Friday night show, they might go by what they see on the innanet and the weekly tv unless someone 'wins them over' during a match to change their mind.

The 'win over' is easier to pull off in the middle of a show by an AJ, Dolph, or a Sami type who don't carry a lot of baggage with a more casual fan. By the end of a show, folks may be tired and/or worrying about the process of leaving the show/getting home/getting back to life and they just go with what the rest of the crowd is doing (aka booing neo Cena). There's also the automatic 'winner hate' that comes with holding the belt. The belt = someone in charge thinks you're awesome. Marks know that. In 2016, that can grant you some resentment (see basically any super bowl or NBA champ).

and he carries the title to Mania.

Run the Triple Threat back at Summerslam and cheat to beat Ambrose and just go on a monster heel tear. It's time to move on from this idea that he's something he isn't. He's a good looking meathead, just go with that.

This is a bus stop ad in Virginia I've driven by a few times:

https://www.fatherhood.gov/sites/default/files/roman_tw_share.jpg

Now I totally get putting him out there and I so OBVIOUSLY think it's important to be a good dad. But at the same time, this is sooooooo lame hahahaha

Bring this guy back like he's the biggest asshole in the world and I can promise you he will own it.

>and he carries the title to Mania.
>
>Run the Triple Threat back at Summerslam and cheat to beat
>Ambrose and just go on a monster heel tear. It's time to move
>on from this idea that he's something he isn't. He's a good
>looking meathead, just go with that.
>
>This is a bus stop ad in Virginia I've driven by a few times:
>
>https://www.fatherhood.gov/sites/default/files/roman_tw_share.jpg
>
>Now I totally get putting him out there and I so OBVIOUSLY
>think it's important to be a good dad. But at the same time,
>this is sooooooo lame hahahaha
>
>Bring this guy back like he's the biggest asshole in the world
>and I can promise you he will own it.

With so many iconic shows built around general purpose villains, there's never been a better time than now to build rasslin shows around an active rassler villain. And they could make money on the turn. The flippy and/scrappy cats can be the good guys. Seth by God Rollins can be the number one face in less than a year as long as he talks less.

after their wellness policy violation. Not right now at least. Young Randy Orton wouldn't have lasted if he was coming up today. It's a slightly different culture. They won't completely bury Roman cause they have too much invested, but after they were criticized for the Titus Young suspension I don't think they want to LOOK like they're playing favorites. Bad timing for Reigns, but I agree a heel push is in order. They may not have a choice really.

someone - who was talented - wasn't getting over so they would just change their direction. I hope they're not looking at the polarising response to Cena as a template for top stars going forward.

rather than a "take it or leave it" approach it seems like they're now trying to manufacture "unintentional" heat for a few people. Position someone as a boring face briefly knowing the smarks will revolt, then play up all the parts of them people hate. Elias Samson, Eva Marie, and the Shining Stars (based on their last package) may fit this mold. I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the strategy. Seems worth a try but people could sniff it out and start cheering for a shitty gimmick a la Fandango. Samson and Eva are a LOT of fun to boo live though, so who knows.

i mean they saddled ambrose with the B squad and second-tier locations for house shows and he's drawing the same level as roman. the people have spoken.

Adam Rose is arrested, Paige was arrested after MITB apparently, Lawler is now in trouble with a domestic situation (not sure if he's been fired yet), and now this!?

This has been a thing through history. There are racists, drug abusers, domestic abusers, serial adulterers, and all kinds of awful personality traits.

Imagine if we had the internet, wellness policy and zero tolerance for abuse policy in the 80's.

Have you read Bret Hart's book? The things he details in there is fairly extreme. I knew stuff in the 80s/90s was bad but they seemed to be very streamlined in their disciplines now that these incidents are usually few and far between. Just seems like at the moment they've hit a weird run of bad press.

>Have you read Bret Hart's book? The things he details in
>there is fairly extreme. I knew stuff in the 80s/90s was bad
>but they seemed to be very streamlined in their disciplines
>now that these incidents are usually few and far between.
>Just seems like at the moment they've hit a weird run of bad
>press.

There's more over the top wrestling nerds wrestling now than ever. Lots of those cats are gonna be not being in trouble. But the ex jocks and/or 2nd and more generation cats? Shiiiiid...maybe they think they're just keeping the 'traditions' going.

As for the Kid, there's no telling what his violation is for. If WWE's banned list is anything like the big ass list of things that can't be in your body for the NFL, it could be a wrong supplement from bodybuilding.com.

Hart's book was the shit to me by the way. I loved that he wasn't just the ultimate hero through the whole thing. He even admitted to juicing even if he blamed it on injuries. It makes some of his rants now more hollow to me as well but whatever..dude is hella great and is one Goldberg kick away from likely having a much different last 16 years.

I remember being blown away by Foley's book when I first read it but the most incriminating road story he tells is him crumbling cookies in DDP's bed. Bret's stories were about hookers and piles of coke on coffee tables with straws being passed around.

from the tales of the road
the politics of the business
to breaking down classic matches move by move

5 stars

and carnies suck.

Heel AJ Styles is GREAT!!!!!

It would be nice if they didn't run the interference angle into the ground (in true WWE style) but he's makin' 'em MAD, and I love it!!! As long as they don't bury him with the Cena thing (which is always a concern/possibility) I can see him with a title by Royal Rumble...with all the asscrack WWE/I-C champs that there have been over the past few years, AJ deserves a title reign or three to his credit....and Doc & Anderson need to go ahead and crush New Gay...enough is enough. Add a new ally and the next Horsemen-esque group is on the horizon...*smile*

>Heel AJ Styles is GREAT!!!!!
>
>It would be nice if they didn't run the interference angle
>into the ground (in true WWE style) but he's makin' 'em MAD,
>and I love it!!! As long as they don't bury him with the Cena
>thing (which is always a concern/possibility) I can see him
>with a title by Royal Rumble...with all the asscrack WWE/I-C
>champs that there have been over the past few years, AJ
>deserves a title reign or three to his credit....and Doc &
>Anderson need to go ahead and crush New Gay...enough is
>enough. Add a new ally and the next Horsemen-esque group is on
>the horizon...*smile*

I see them as more of a nWo with an outrageously higher work rate. I love that AJ seems to be emptying the tank on the mic and in the ring. It's like he knows/feels that he has 5-7 years tops to validate his career with a grand wwe showing. So far so good. He's like a more stable and complete RVD or 'Brother Nero'. It's crazy that the stuff he's doing still looks wild 15 years later.

The snarky stuff with him and Cena is the type of stuff that folks used to looooooove. I still do loooooooove that type of stuff when the situation can use it...like here.

I'm not sure how doc and Karl are doing with the brass backstage. They haven't been exactly given wonderful dance partners in important spots. And a big man like Doc just doesn't draw attention like it used to. Karl is solid tho. And their tandem moves pack a helluva punch without being too dangerous so that's sweet.

but dude looks like he can GET AFTER IT!!

I'd like to see him get a push in some one on one settings.

>Anderson need to go ahead and crush New Gay

cmon

Smh

whew shit he shaky af and nervous on the mic. gotta learn to let them lines breathe and say em w/ a little more emphasis.

other than that obvious filler ep to lead up to Ultima Lucha 2 next week.
excited for the Puma/Rey match

the womens tag team match this week was straight

curious to see what this new jaguar dude is about.

>whew shit he shaky af and nervous on the mic. gotta learn to
>let them lines breathe and say em w/ a little more emphasis.
>
>other than that obvious filler ep to lead up to Ultima Lucha 2
>next week.
>excited for the Puma/Rey match
>
>the womens tag team match this week was straight
>
>curious to see what this new jaguar dude is about.

I wonder if the jag dude is someone we've awreddy seen as a different character.

And yeah...Rico not talking was for a reason. But they kinda owe it to him to let him start working on it. Puma is the next thing if things fall his way. He's obviously a supreme flying wrestler at a great time since even wwe's average guy is getting smaller and smaller.

I'm ready to see how the investigation thing plays out too. Layers! Imagine that...

Side: I still can't believe Reigns got himself suspended somehow. It still seems like a screwy thing where Vince or someone had a different falling out with him and now a magical failed test comes back alluva sudden.

as i understand he's in contract negotiations w/ lucha right now. and they're midway thru filming season 3. so i'd imagine he's going to be talking a lot more now over the next year.

>whew shit he shaky af and nervous on the mic.

partially why i've changed my mind on puma going to WWE. he's strong but surprisingly short (5'10", same listed height as neville) so the flippy moves can only take him so far there. unless he has the mic skills he would get shuffled into the midcard deck quickly.

>other than that obvious filler ep to lead up to Ultima Lucha 2
>next week.

it starts 7/6, but we're getting 3 parts this year.

>>whew shit he shaky af and nervous on the mic.
>
>partially why i've changed my mind on puma going to WWE. he's
>strong but surprisingly short (5'10", same listed height as
>neville) so the flippy moves can only take him so far there.
>unless he has the mic skills he would get shuffled into the
>midcard deck quickly.
>
>>other than that obvious filler ep to lead up to Ultima Lucha
>2
>>next week.
>
>it starts 7/6, but we're getting 3 parts this year.

I'm not buying Neville as taller than Benoit. I could be super wrong, but I doubt it. Aka I think Puma is probably fine for 3-5 years from now WWE.

He's probably not much smaller than Finn if he's smaller at all. And that dude is fixin to be the shiznit when he comes over.

AJ is putting on for all shorter cats right now too. It's a good time to be undersized if you can go.

for a while...and I initially thought that they wouldn't let anyone tie Flair's 16 out of respect to Flair, at least as long as he was still around as a part of the company....now I'm not so sure...I smell McMahon desperation surfacing, especially with a brand split upcoming.

Do they let him get the belt again? Just checking for opinions...not necessarily immediately, just eventually...

Im surprised they have held it off for this long. Back when he got to 15 i figured hed be on like 20 by now.

But I always thought they were holding him at 15 for a while just to make the moment bigger. He hasn't held the title in almost 2 years and in that time he raised the profile of a bunch of guys as well as a secondary title. I don't even think (most) smarks would be mad at this point.

He still performs at his best and if there's a logical story that sees him with the belt then he shouldn't be denied the opportunity.

haha

Thought I'd kick these off again for the new thread...

A completely random find on the Network that I watched earlier:

RVD vs Chris Jericho, King of The Ring, 2002, semi-finals match.

Highly recommended!!

disclaimer: I didn't love it. I was more interested because it shows how difficult it is to pull off a great triple threat. Their WM20 match is probably the greatest triple threat ever but this one, while satisfying enough, has all the issues that usually affect a triple threat: it dragged for large portions and when someone disappears for a while it sticks out like a sore thumb. That's always going to happen, but on WM20 they played it more artfully with Aitch and HBK trying to eliminate the pesky Benoit so they could deal with each other. I always thought the key was getting the right 3 guys who can tell a story, but even then it has to be laid out properly. Something to keep in mind with the big Shield match coming.

>Something to keep in mind with the big Shield match
>coming.






















































only to have Super Roman ascend from hell with 2 super man punches, 8 spears and a growl to reclaim the title.

The Kid ain't winning at Battleground unless there's a turn involved. Belee dat.

I think they may be legit ticked at him for this if it is real. If not, this is a helluva way to 'hide' him for a month to try to rig his heat in the direction they want when he's already a 'just add heel promos and a little cheating' heel. I don't buy the idea of this being shenanigans but this is wrestling..weird stuff happens.

Triple threats ARE hard to do, but yeah...Haitch, Haitch B. K., and *unmentionable depending on who you ask* rocked it. The key to the whole thing revolves around people's desire to see Benoit win in both of those situations but wondering if it would actually happen (Daniel Bryan style). And for him to win both matches the way he did was an outrageous show of love from WWE as well as DX.

>>Something to keep in mind with the big Shield match
>>coming.
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>only to have Super Roman ascend from hell with 2 super man
>punches, 8 spears and a growl to reclaim the title.

I threw up my hands. I'm no purist, but is nothing sacred? Still, he got pinned clean so I think he'll be in the doghouse for a while. As much as a really protected guy can be at least.

>I threw up my hands. I'm no purist, but is nothing sacred?

where we are right today is what cracks me up when i watch shoot interviews with the vets. guys had legit arguments/squabbles backstage over refusing to take another guy's finisher cleanly, in order to keep themselves strong.

50/50 booking/"this.is.awesome" has killed all of that.

the furor over that riccochet/ospreay match was overblown for example, and i do think the old timers are just being cranky a LOT of the time, but i can't deny the power of kicking out of finishes is gone now. half of cena's us open challenge opponents kicked out of the AA on Raw. the pop is almost nonexistent at this point.

i can even see both sides of the argument on an isolated move too. the DDT has been lessened since jake the snake and that sucks, but also we've gotten so many awesome variations on it i can't be mad. i also love people incorporating the superkick, but the deemphasis on it now is out of control. i don't need it as a finisher for everyone, but taking 3 in a row and then being able to counter is par for the course these days and i can't see any creative way to explain that.

dem boys got the crowd hot with a spotfest and lightspeed workrate of a match.

hbk selling like no other.

underrated pat tanaka doin what he do.

tag team rasslin, y'all.

Love this match.

>dem boys got the crowd hot with a spotfest and lightspeed
>workrate of a match.
>
>hbk selling like no other.
>
>underrated pat tanaka doin what he do.
>
>tag team rasslin, y'all.

I gotta be honest bro. And when I say this, know that it is from the bottom of my heart. When I sawra this match, something in my heart told me that HBK was special, bro. And I know the marks are gonna have a problem with it but it's their problem because that's the way I feel, bro. That's a shoot bro.

Okay okay...enough with the Russo...

Yeah buddy. I remember this match clearly. I also think it is a GREAT match to show distraught fans and low-card cats now.

In efforts to keep perspective when I'm hating on a rando PPV and some TV match, there have been screwy finishes, 'not enough time', and other shenanigans on undercards and 'non-major' shows FOREVER. It is a huge part of rasslin. So, when you can...enjoy the tail that cats are busting in these 8-minute TV matches that are almost guaranteed to end in a distraction roll...I mean distraction finisher.

they did a good piece on him on The Ringer. this part jumped out to me because i thought they all did them live.

https://theringer.com/who-doesnt-love-dwayne-johnson-the-rock-undeniables-5084caf1e3d7#.gofc4tvim

Gewirtz first met the Rock when the writer was hired by MTV to script some segments featuring wrestlers introducing music videos to promote SummerSlam 1999. By that time, Johnson had already headlined a WrestleMania, and thanks to his urging, Gewirtz was hired by the WWF several months later. Johnson was eager to collaborate, even as other wrestlers sneered at accepting help from writers.

“You knew that talent was different than the others.”

When wrestlers do their match-hyping interviews backstage, they can choose to record them ahead of time or do them live. According to Gewirtz, almost everybody chooses the former, for the safety net in case something goes wrong. But Johnson insisted on doing his promos live.

“When we did a promo, it actually became an event backstage. The wrestlers and staff would stop what they were doing and gather around the set to watch him. He’s the only person I’ve ever seen that with to this day. It was, ‘Pick up your popcorn box and watch the Rock cut a promo.’”

my main takeaway from this weeks Lucha is a question actually. are we to assume Catrina's about to jump in the ring?
DAJR/Puma and Fenix/Mundo are def worth watching from this week's ep. Also the Taya/Ivelisse setup


* Unique Opportunity Tournament: Featuring Son of Havoc, Cage, The Mack and Texano
* Taya vs. Ivelisse
* Black Lotus vs. Dragon Azteca Jr.
* Prince Puma vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.
* Death Match: Mil Muertes vs. King Cuerno
* Gift of the Gods Title Match: Night Claw vs. Daga vs. Killshot vs. Marty the Moth vs. Sexy Star vs. Mariposa vs. Siniestro de la Muerta
* Trios Title Match: Champions Johnny Mundo, Jack Evans and PJ Black will face Drago, Fenix and Aerostar
* Lucha Underground Title Match: Champion The Monster Matanza Cueto vs. Pentagon Jr

>my main takeaway from this weeks Lucha is a question
>actually. are we to assume Catrina's about to jump in the
>ring?

Knowing them they're probably teasing Ivelisse vs. Catrina in UL3. They have a LOT of patience.

>
>* Unique Opportunity Tournament: Featuring Son of Havoc, Cage,
>The Mack and Texano

Hmmm. Could go anyway but they seem to be still all-in on a Cage push. Havoc is my dark horse. Don't think they'll let Mack win anything serious. Texano does nothing for me.

>* Taya vs. Ivelisse

I think Taya wins cause I see a lot of face wins on this card and they can book this in creative ways to make Ivelisse look strong. This could be a great match. Love their chemistry and Taya is a fantastic heel.

>* Black Lotus vs. Dragon Azteca Jr.

I'm thinking Azteca wins but in the process convinces Lotus that Dario is lying.

>* Prince Puma vs. Rey Mysterio Jr.

King Puma.

>* Death Match: Mil Muertes vs. King Cuerno

I love my man Cuerno but there's no chance Mil loses this. Nor should he. He's lost both grave consequences and he needs a big win here. A death match is gonna go his way, especially where he's the sympathetic one here.

>* Gift of the Gods Title Match: Night Claw vs. Daga vs.
>Killshot vs. Marty the Moth vs. Sexy Star vs. Mariposa vs.
>Siniestro de la Muerta

Night Claw

>* Trios Title Match: Champions Johnny Mundo, Jack Evans and PJ
>Black will face Drago, Fenix and Aerostar

The masks. They'll be a fun trio. I think Mundo should turn on his partners after to turn them face.

>* Lucha Underground Title Match: Champion The Monster Matanza
>Cueto vs. Pentagon Jr

Cero. Fucking. Miedo.

>Lots of stuff coming down the pike. Shield triple threat.
>Wyatts vs. New Day. Brand split. McMahon drama for some
>reason.

I have a feeling that absurdity awaits us tonight. It's already well off the rails with Matt being the most absurd Bray Wyatt possible and Jeff playing it straight. And Tna is like whatever at this point anyway so there's no telling what silliness is coming tonight. It can't be too much worse than most of the recent raw stuff I've made it through.

>I have a feeling that absurdity awaits us tonight. It's
>already well off the rails with Matt being the most absurd
>Bray Wyatt possible and Jeff playing it straight. And Tna is
>like whatever at this point anyway so there's no telling what
>silliness is coming tonight. It can't be too much worse than
>most of the recent raw stuff I've made it through.


TNA could be so much better, but it just isn't. The Hardy thing is strange for the reason you gave...Jeff as the "normal" one just doesn't work, but I actually like Matt's schtick, if only his in ring was better.

I love E-Li-Drake (dummy,yeah...lol), I'm big on EC 3, though I liked him more as an unbeatable heel. there are a couple of other talents, but the writing...ugh. Ring of Honor is WAY more watchable with less budget at this point.

>
>>I have a feeling that absurdity awaits us tonight. It's
>>already well off the rails with Matt being the most absurd
>>Bray Wyatt possible and Jeff playing it straight. And Tna is
>>like whatever at this point anyway so there's no telling
>what
>>silliness is coming tonight. It can't be too much worse than
>>most of the recent raw stuff I've made it through.
>
>
>TNA could be so much better, but it just isn't. The Hardy
>thing is strange for the reason you gave...Jeff as the
>"normal" one just doesn't work, but I actually like Matt's
>schtick, if only his in ring was better.
>
>I love E-Li-Drake (dummy,yeah...lol), I'm big on EC 3, though
>I liked him more as an unbeatable heel. there are a couple of
>other talents, but the writing...ugh. Ring of Honor is WAY
>more watchable with less budget at this point.

I gave up on tna turning some kind of corner forever ago. Basically starting over is what they needed to do. EC3 is money. Drew Galloway is solid. lashley is better but still missing something in the tna presentation. Aka even when they have a good match, the presentation is 'off'.

I'm on it tonight to see the 'payoff' for this crazy ass storyline. Matt has fully committed and tna has allowed it (sense they had nothing better to do). And really tho, I may as well get some more looks at Matt's Topanga-looking ass wife before I see Jeff do a swanton out of a tree.

> \ I may
>as well get some more looks at Matt's Topanga-looking ass wife
>before I see Jeff do a swanton out of a tree.
>

>> \ I may
>>as well get some more looks at Matt's Topanga-looking ass
>wife
>>before I see Jeff do a swanton out of a tree.
>>
>

Boiler room brawl material. It was about as crazy as I thought it would be. Hilarity was ever-present. It's just them taking advantage of an opportunity to do something weird as hell and get away it. Matt is the man for committing to this goofy ass character. Senor Benjamin! Bwahaha. Delete!

seems like it's splitting people down the middle, but I was laughing. the wrestling itself is about as uncrisp as it gets, but that's not even in the top 20 of notable things about it. Jeff yelling "What's wrong with you?" as fireworks get shot at him was my favorite. love it or hate it, it's refreshing to see the creative freedom.

>seems like it's splitting people down the middle, but I was
>laughing. the wrestling itself is about as uncrisp as it gets,
>but that's not even in the top 20 of notable things about it.
>Jeff yelling "What's wrong with you?" as fireworks get shot at
>him was my favorite. love it or hate it, it's refreshing to
>see the creative freedom.

Dilapidated boat! There's so much goodness in the dialog...I'm still not over Matt using big words as a part of the accent in general. The santuary of our Genesis! Bwahahaha! And just the whole 'ovah!' Thing makes me want to buy shirts.

The funny thing is that it was a basic hardcore Jeff Hardy match with Matt's absurdity thrown on top of it and it worked amazingly for me because that's exactly what I thought was coming so I was ready but still not. The drones/hologram wiped me out early. And that was after I had barely recovered from King Maxel's birthday party and Senor Benjamin (the gift and the order to prepare the grounds for a massacre).

I've seen and enjoyed a gang of super serious wrestling clinic matches with submissions getting worked throughout to tell a Flair-ish story. I've seen the 'epic' japan strong-style and/or head-dropathon wars where someone just stops getting up after 30 minutes of catching and throwing bombs. I've seen the lucha/Indy-style stunt shows where everyone is dropping their create a wrestler moves in between laying around making faces for 'selling'. I've seen the garbage stuff where folks just hit each other for real with objects and bleed a lot. And we need all of those at different times depending on the story. But wrestling being obviously a work is something that can be used to have fun for storyline matches sometimes.

Last night was one of those times pretty clearly and the story of Matt going batshit crazy over being jealous of his stunt-diving ass brother is a great one. On the base, it's a basic but solid story. In execution, it was a sloppy but still grand spectacle of Matt having to take out all the stops just to get a win over his famous goofball brother. And the fact that he got him to take huge risks until soemthing went wrong is like the perfect way to beat Jeff in a match. It was great storytelling. If you missed that, watch it again with that in mind and enjoy. If not, deletion! Deletion! Deletion! Or just disagree...that's fine too.

cause I found it easy to set aside normal kayfabe and just enjoy this goofiness.

That was so stupid it doubled back around to great.

They're about to catch that Cena Stank from the crowd. Normally that's a good spot for a team like this but I don't think this is going to do them any favors.

>They're about to catch that Cena Stank from the crowd.
>Normally that's a good spot for a team like this but I don't
>think this is going to do them any favors.

Hopefully it is a quick thing that doesn't last past Battlefield.

I wonder who Brock is getting at summerfest? I'm guessing Bray for now but I'm just not sure.

>

That would pretty much work as a match for the sake of a match that is big enough for summerfest. Since Brock is basically not a part of the big story at this point, it's fine. But I'd like him to show up out of nowhere and suplex the whole Shield to at least pretend to get back in the 'universe'. Maybe they can do both the Orton match and get him involved again around summerfest. Or not since he's not breaking a sweat to do anything extra for them.

I wonder will they even bother to assign him to a show?

Side: I REALLY want Rollins to get the curb stomp back. Cmon Vince!

I imagine he'll come off looking strong from it at least.

they don't let things play out a week or two before announcing the match. now someone runs in and right after the commercial break they already have the contracts signed backstage. wtf?

Cage vs. Mack deserves the "fight forever" chant. They have fantastic chemistry. So happy Mack picked up a win here. I hadn't even considered that an option. Also creative booking at the end there. I mean why CAN'T a hardcore match end on a roll-up? Shit, that might be my strategy with an opponent distracted by all the weapons.

Aaaaand I'll take a Son of Havoc win too. Aaaand I can't believe they're doig the finals right now.

I know they're setting up stakes for Havoc later, but it's never great to say "syke, everything you just watched is bullshit"

on some New Day mess.
but he's a boss on this shit.
i want to see him fight for the belt.

even if they're not in the main. At any point, they can heat up Cuerno, or Havoc, or Cage, or Mack, or Sexy and have them run at the title. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see Pimpernela or Mascarita Sagrada with a title match at some point.

I watched the special on the Network yesterday and am impressed by how seriously they're taking it. Should be an excellent tournament!

>I watched the special on the Network yesterday and am
>impressed by how seriously they're taking it. Should be an
>excellent tournament!

Hella excited yes. There's a bunch of rasslin to get into now. Im always happy when WWE shows any kind of flexibility with what they put resources into. Raw is in a rough holding pattern ahead of this draft but nxt is still grand and the network as a whole is pretty much what it needs to be.

they didn't even like mentioning other brands (TNA) let alone signing all these guys for such a short-term deal. Really impressed by it. Could lead to a bunch of new signings too if these guys can impress. Wishing them all luck!

I don't know many of these wrestlers, so school me on your favorites guys.

As in, I don't know any of them apart from Tajiri, Kendrick, Gargano, Champa and Rich Swan. I'm really happy Swan is in it as I've seen a couple of NXT matches and think he's excellent.

Apparently they tried to secure Osprey for the tournament but he couldn't get out of his existing contract.

I hope they let Gargano and Ciampa really go at it.

I thought he did a great job on putting himself across and I'm really rooting for him.

don't expect flying crossbodies, double moonsaults, 540 splashes, etc. just a ton of arm bars and mat wrestling. he's basically a really skinny daniel bryan. and he can be just as vicious as ROH Champion Bryan Danielson with his striking.

>don't expect flying crossbodies, double moonsaults, 540
>splashes, etc. just a ton of arm bars and mat wrestling. he's
>basically a really skinny daniel bryan. and he can be just as
>vicious as ROH Champion Bryan Danielson with his striking.

This. I saw him during Mania weekend vs (fat) Chris Hero. It was grand. Dude was twisting Hero's shit all the way up. And even though Hero looked hella fat he's still a good worker. It's crazy to think he was with Cesaro seeing him now:

Double moonsault...ahhh. Sweet sweet Richochet/Prince Puma.

Kota and Cedric Alexander were the standouts but Maluta brought it too. They said the Chilean dude trained off of youtube videos like it was a good thing. It looked like he's only watched 80's videos cause his facial expressions were ridiculous.

Not a good sign.

The most exciting part of any Lesnar match is picking a name out of a hat and imagining the awesome spectacle that’s taking place in some parallel universe somewhere.

The second most exciting part of any Lesnar match is hoping for a good build. That hope is always suffocated to death when the build is always, inevitably botched by being either non-existent or Paul Heyman’s inability to perform actual miracles, but at least the build is there in some form or fashion.

Then we get the match itself, which is Brock absolutely manhandling his opponent so that we’re once again reminded how weak everyone else is by comparison.

Seeing as how they already blew their load on the two good parts of a Lesnar match and the match itself being the most predictable and one-sided match in pro wrestling I don’t see what there is to look forward to.

In this instance it's difficult to book anything other than a squash when Brock has just come off a UFC win, but Orton does seem like the type of guy who wouldn't go along with that. In fairness, a guy of Orton's standing in the company shouldn't go along with it - particularly coming off a long injury and coming back as a face.

I guess he'll come close but will ultimately have to take the convincing loss.

I'm still sour about the Ambrose/Lesnar match at Mania. That match should've been Ambrose's 'Austin-mania-13' moment but became such a wasted opportunity.

Brock is basically a cartoon at this point and it's diminished him and his opponents a great deal.

This is way, way, way worse than Super Cena.

Brock is basically Super Sayain 3 Broly after a fusion dance with another Super Sayain 3 Broly. They've made him far too dominant.

They also neutered Orton during that Authority run. Randy is a dude that should be giving Brock the business. When Heyman kept telling Cena that he needed do away with his morals and whatnot to have a chance to beat Brock, they opened the door wide open for Orton to be that dude because he has zero fucks to give.

As a huge Orton mark, I get that people are bored by him and all that but there are two points where Orton is the best thing in pro wrestling:

When he's in the midst of a face turn and when he's a vile, brutal, evil heel who thoroughly enjoys inflicting pain and punishment on his foes. He's pure gold in those situations.

He has the size to believably absorb a lot of Brocks offense. Seriously, he's deceptively huge.

He's also got the right disposition to make Brock look mortal as fuck, at least when properly applied.

Thing is they've consistently failed at properly bottling those qualities. As I said, I'm a mark for the guy but they've downplayed his strong points to a great degree and that, coupled with their continued treatment of Brock as a ridiculously, infuriatingly programmed SNK fighting game boss on "extreme" difficulty or whatever means this is most likely going to stink up the joint.

I dug the Super Brock thing at the beginning because it was about who was going to be the one to dethrone him but (a) people turned on Reigns before that Mania, and (b) Brock signed on for another couple years so there became no actual reason for anyone to dethrone him. His UFC win now means that NO ONE can dethrone him.

I'm no Big Show fan but I thought the way his match with Brock went (at that MSG Network special) and his treatment on Raw the next night was horrible.

As I say, for me the match's saving grace will likely be Orton's justifiable ego.

Your point about his ego does present an intriguing wrinkle in all this, but I'm not sure how much pull Orton has these days, particularly since he's been out injured a few times in recent years.

That plus his age might make him a little expendable in the eyes of Vince.

And that's what gets me:

THIS conversation you and I are having is the most interesting thing about this match to me, and why I made that initial post. Evaluating these little wrinkles are always the best part of a Brock match but it so often winds up exactly as expected, with a Bully Brock squash.

It IS time for someone to not let suplex city happen to them. Orton is a good candidate for this. Legend Killer. Viper. Whatever. And he's a big man with bad shoulders. He can have good matches with just about anyone. I'm not scurred even though Lesnar matches are almost not cannon for WWE storylines nowadays.

He's not a big enough part of their show at this point to be inserted into anything too huge. He's made it somewhat clear that he's not gonna do extra appearances unless they fork over more money. At some point, WWE has stand up, say 'go ahead and stay home until *some time far away* then', and do what we always want them to do...work to get/keep more of their every show guys over like rover.

Real talk: they are staring at some can't miss situations soon. Balor, Nak, and Joe are all 'give them wins early and they're gonna be over' status.

>Not a good sign.
>
>The most exciting part of any Lesnar match is picking a name
>out of a hat and imagining the awesome spectacle that’s
>taking place in some parallel universe somewhere.
>
>The second most exciting part of any Lesnar match is hoping
>for a good build. That hope is always suffocated to death when
>the build is always, inevitably botched by being either
>non-existent or Paul Heyman’s inability to perform actual
>miracles, but at least the build is there in some form or
>fashion.
>
>Then we get the match itself, which is Brock absolutely
>manhandling his opponent so that we’re once again reminded
>how weak everyone else is by comparison.
>
>Seeing as how they already blew their load on the two good
>parts of a Lesnar match and the match itself being the most
>predictable and one-sided match in pro wrestling I don’t see
>what there is to look forward to.
>

It's painful to listen to...please stop

but they've really been stretching his limits here. whenever he has to make an analogy or something i cringe.

>but they've really been stretching his limits here. whenever
>he has to make an analogy or something i cringe.

It's crazy because E&C are all analogies/references. And yeah...it's bad sometimes. Still, I'd rather them do what they do and eventually get better at it than to have the 'read this thing we wrote for you' thing throughout the whole roster.

I'm at least slightly terrified of them being with Jern, but they seem to be VERY trope-aware nowadays. Most of the upper midcard guys have been trope trolling for months. Owens is all over that (because he great and needs to be main eventing).

i can't call it good. i can't call it bad. i'm not exactly glad that it happened. didn't do much for the storyline though, and that's probably a good thing.

>i can't call it good. i can't call it bad. i'm not exactly
>glad that it happened. didn't do much for the storyline
>though, and that's probably a good thing.

Final Deletion. Matt Hardy is trolling Bray and Lucha Underground with his borderline brilliant character work. The problem with it: Matt has the weapon/possibility of comedy that basically no one else can pull off and still have it work out as well. So on-location fights and general absurdity is going to be tough to handle anytime in the near future because Final Deletion is basically a masterpiece even with the shaky actual wrestling.

The only bad part about these themed episodes with 1-2 matches is we don't get the backstage segments throughout. They squeezed some in at the end, but it still feels lacking when those aren't painted throughout.

Gift of the Gods is always fun. Would've liked to see Killshot get some shine here, but Sexy finally overcoming her demons was a good story.

Yup. Muertes won just like he needed to.

Pentagon is getting Vamp back. Cuerto gonna slide away from the 5-0 for a bit. Should get interesting.

>The only bad part about these themed episodes with 1-2
>matches is we don't get the backstage segments throughout.
>They squeezed some in at the end, but it still feels lacking
>when those aren't painted throughout.
>
>Gift of the Gods is always fun. Would've liked to see Killshot
>get some shine here, but Sexy finally overcoming her demons
>was a good story.
>
>Yup. Muertes won just like he needed to.
>
>Pentagon is getting Vamp back. Cuerto gonna slide away from
>the 5-0 for a bit. Should get interesting.

Yessir! I enjoyed it. Next week is gonna be supreme.

Between lucha, Broken Matt Hardy, nxt, njpw on axstv with English commentary, and a handful of wwe stuff, I'm having a grand time watching rasslin nowadays. So many bases are very covered. Hell, I'm even occasionally playing wwe 2k16 and enjoying that too.

>>The only bad part about these themed episodes with 1-2
>>matches is we don't get the backstage segments throughout.
>>They squeezed some in at the end, but it still feels lacking
>>when those aren't painted throughout.
>>
>>Gift of the Gods is always fun. Would've liked to see
>Killshot
>>get some shine here, but Sexy finally overcoming her demons
>>was a good story.
>>
>>Yup. Muertes won just like he needed to.

Yeah, Mil had to win that, but I'm a bit bummed to see Cuerno go. Loved watching him wrestle.


>>
>>Pentagon is getting Vamp back. Cuerto gonna slide away from
>>the 5-0 for a bit. Should get interesting.

Can't wait for this one. Pentagon and Vamp are gonna go nuts.

>
>Yessir! I enjoyed it. Next week is gonna be supreme.
>
>Between lucha, Broken Matt Hardy, nxt, njpw on axstv with
>English commentary, and a handful of wwe stuff, I'm having a
>grand time watching rasslin nowadays. So many bases are very
>covered. Hell, I'm even occasionally playing wwe 2k16 and
>enjoying that too.

I don't watch all that stuff, but, man, this Wednesday had Ultima Lucha, Finn-Nakamura and night one of the Cruiser Weight Classic. Quite the night. I can tell I'm gonna love the shit out of this Cruiser Weight Classic. I've heard of, maybe, four or five of these dudes, but I'm so on board already.

I like Barclays, but now I know why everyone reminisces about the Garden. It has a weirdly intimate feel for such a big place. The simplified titantron and entrance ramp are very old school. Feels like you're at an 80's show. Cena-Styles was an absolute barnburner and KO was in the main event with Dean and Seth. He will fit in perfectly once he makes the jump. I hope it's soon.

Also caught an Evolve show in Queens yesterday afternoon. They continue to do great work. They keep going to the same venue that has low ceilings with a bunch of stuff hanging though. I get nervous watching any top rope move. That same venue is gonna have a show with some Lucha Undergorund people (and others) next weekend but I'm out of town unfortunately.

>I like Barclays, but now I know why everyone reminisces about
>the Garden. It has a weirdly intimate feel for such a big
>place. The simplified titantron and entrance ramp are very old
>school. Feels like you're at an 80's show. Cena-Styles was an
>absolute barnburner and KO was in the main event with Dean and
>Seth. He will fit in perfectly once he makes the jump. I hope
>it's soon.
>
>Also caught an Evolve show in Queens yesterday afternoon. They
>continue to do great work. They keep going to the same venue
>that has low ceilings with a bunch of stuff hanging though. I
>get nervous watching any top rope move. That same venue is
>gonna have a show with some Lucha Undergorund people (and
>others) next weekend but I'm out of town unfortunately.

Rasslin is fun as hell to watch live if you go ahead and let yourself get caught up in it. It's easier to get all in on a smaller show like the ones in Evolve...and you get so many more of the one-liners from the folks in the ring. And of course, cats are giving to each other quite a bit. Surfer-looking dude from Catch Point is the man. Hopefully he can get/stay off them tweeds and get famous by the time Kurt has a wwe stable of grapplers.

AJ Styles is winning big for himself and others right now. He might mess around and get tna bought by wwe. Okay okay! But hell...that price has to be dipping...Matt Hardy's absurd brilliance aside. The tape library could be worth it for the X Division heyday stuff alone.

AJ/Cena and KO/Rollins/Ambrose?!?! Two amazing matches to see there!

Because why not, curious to see who we all think is crucial. Let's hypothetically treat this like we each have our own brand. I did the order on fantasyfootballnerd.com (?) and I think I included everyone in this thread

http://oi66.tinypic.com/vyshhk.jpg


Pick # 1 : Jimaveli
Pick # 2 : AF-1
Pick # 3 : BrooklynWHAT
Pick # 4 : Cold Truth
Pick # 5 : Tiger Woods
Pick # 6 : Selassie I God
Pick # 7 : Oak27
Pick # 8 : magilla vanilla
Pick # 9 : MaxPtah
Pick # 10 : Flash80

Jimaveli, you're on the clock. Make your pick first (and state your case after the pick too) You have the keys to the car, so who is the number one guy your brand just has to have? Great spot to be in.

Take the first pick!

i'll probably get caught up in my workday and forget to make a choice

Youth and he can already do it all. Basically has no warts and just needs acceptable booking and health luck. And there's still a gang of new and good matches for him to have. And his face turn could be supreme cuz he already has a face moveset. Give him the stomp back and an excuse to do the right things and it's curtains.

>think I included everyone in this thread
>
>http://oi66.tinypic.com/vyshhk.jpg
>
>
> Pick # 1 : Jimaveli
> Pick # 2 : AF-1
> Pick # 3 : BrooklynWHAT
> Pick # 4 : Cold Truth
> Pick # 5 : Tiger Woods
> Pick # 6 : Selassie I God
> Pick # 7 : Oak27
> Pick # 8 : magilla vanilla
> Pick # 9 : MaxPtah
> Pick # 10 : Flash80
>
>Jimaveli, you're on the clock. Make your pick first (and state
>your case after the pick too) You have the keys to the car, so
>who is the number one guy your brand just has to have? Great
>spot to be in.
>
>
>
>

Don't know what else to say to profess my fandom for him: great in-ring worker, marks love him, awesome character, the anti-WWE star who would make an incredible champion.

(Great post idea by the way!)

there are people on this draft list who may not have even been in this post in the past 48 hours, completely unaware others are waiting on them to pick lol

i need to go dig on the DVR to do a scouting report --- only watched snippets of RAW over the last 6 weeks or so.

btw, how you gonna snub my boy pretentious u?

>i need to go dig on the DVR to do a scouting report --- only
>watched snippets of RAW over the last 6 weeks or so.
>
>btw, how you gonna snub my boy pretentious u?

to be fair my username is not easy to type. i'm gonna get a power rankings thing going since this seems to be slow-going.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2016/07/18/wrestlers-file-suit-against-wwe-for-concealing-concussion-dangers/iMyGbjD8ZtY58DhS8OXdaK/story.html

Ex-wrestlers file suit against WWE for concealing concussion dangers

More than 50 former professional wrestlers filed a lawsuit Monday against World Wrestling Entertainment, alleging the company concealed the dangers of repetitive head injuries that caused them debilitating neurological damage.

The suit, which was filed in US District Court in WWE’s home state of Connecticut, details the experiences of 53 ex-performers who allege a possible link between their head injuries and chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a progressive degenerative brain disease that has been diagnosed in many deceased athletes and at least two professional wrestlers.


The complaint is similar to concussion cases brought by former players against the National Football League and National Hockey League. The suit against the NFL resulted in a settlement of nearly $1 billion, while the NHL case remains in litigation.

“WWE has done everything in its power to deny, conceal and deflect attention from acknowledging that this disease even exists in the community of retired wrestlers,’’ the wrestlers’ suit states.

The plaintiffs include former WWE stars Jimmy Snuka (Superfly), Paul Orndorff (Mr. Wonderful), and Joe Laurinaitis (Road Warrior Animal).

Read the wrestlers’ lawsuit vs. WWE
More than 50 former professional wrestlers filed a lawsuit Monday against World Wrestling Entertainment.

In June, the 73-year-old Snuka, facing a charge that he murdered his girlfriend in 1983, was found incompetent to stand trial because of dementia.

The WWE lashed out at a Hingham lawyer, Konstantine Kyros, who is part of a six-member legal team that filed the suit. Kyros has helped file several previous lawsuits against WWE, including one in which a judge dismissed several elements of the case, including a class-action claim, but allowed two former wrestlers to pursue their allegation that WWE fraudulently failed to warn them they could suffer permanent brain damage from repetitive head injuries on the job.


“This is another ridiculous attempt by the same attorney who has previously filed class-action lawsuits against WWE, both of which have been dismissed,’’ WWE said in a prepared statement. “A federal judge has already found that this lawyer made patently false allegations about WWE, and this is more of the same. We’re confident this lawsuit will suffer the same fate as his prior attempts and be dismissed.”

Kyros denied that a judge has ruled he made patently false allegations.

“It has been the studied practice of WWE through its counsel to denigrate the motives and integrity of anyone who is courageous enough to protest WWE’s self-serving choice to ignore the human toll and health crisis that its policies, fraud, and mistreatment of its workers have created,’’ Kyros said.

WWE has previously denied concealing medical information on concussions from performers and has claimed the company has outpaced sports organizations in implementing concussion management procedures.

The 214-page complaint accuses WWE and its owner, Vince McMahon, of putting profits above safety by requiring the performers to engage in maneuvers such as pile drivers, brainbusters, and neckbreakers to wow its crowds and market its products, despite the dangers. For decades, WWE performers in scripted matches struck each other in the head with metal chairs, until the company banned the practice in 2010.

Professional wrestling, despite its required athleticism, has been legally classified as entertainment rather than sport because of its choreographed nature and predetermined outcomes. Its performers often feign pain, but repetitive impacts to the head are all but inevitable in the ring and practice facilities.

WWE performers are treated as independent contractors and do not receive union representation, as do athletes in the major professional sports. The lawsuit contends WWE misclassified the performers as independent contractors and seeks damages for depriving them of employment rights, some of them health-related.

Unlike the major professional sports leagues, WWE is a publicly traded corporation.

Some of the 53 former performers allege their job-related brain injuries are so severe they require psychiatric care for symptoms that include suicidal thoughts, which have been associated with CTE.

Laurinaitis, 56, the lead plaintiff, once formed one of the most famous tag teams in WWE history. He alleges he performed hundreds of nights a year and suffered at least four major concussions but received little or no treatment from WWE’s ringside doctors.

Laurinaitis, whose son is a linebacker for the New Orleans Saints, claims to suffer an array of cognitive problems, including memory loss.

Orndorff, 66, a member of the WWE Hall of Fame, performed in the 1980s with the likes of Hulk Hogan and Mr. T. The lawsuit quotes Orndorff as saying he was “pressured to work injured” and alleges he routinely suffered head trauma that has caused numerous symptoms associated with CTE, including clinical depression, paranoia, confusion, and severe mood swings.

As for Snuka, one of his legendary antics as a WWE headliner occurred Oct. 17, 1983. As Superfly, Snuka leaped 15 feet from atop a steel cage at Madison Square Garden and crashed onto his opponent, who lay on his back on the canvas.

A year later, Snuka, a native of Fiji, was conked on the head with a coconut by Rowdy Roddy Piper during a promotional event. Snuka’s guardian, his wife, Carole, alleges he suffered neurological damage at the time and has since experienced serious cognitive and neuropsychological impairment from the cumulative head trauma.

In June, a judge in Lehigh County, Pa., accepted a forensic psychologist’s diagnosis that Snuka suffered from dementia so severe that he was unaware he had been charged with homicide, according to The Morning Call of Allentown. The judge ordered him to be evaluated every six months.

The lawsuit alleges WWE was aware of the consequences of brain injuries for years but failed to warn its performers and take other precautionary measures before it implemented a concussion management program in 2008. In 1995, the suit says, WWE televised a scripted event describing the dangers of post-concussion syndrome and cited comparisons to football players and boxers.

“While the WWE knew for decades of the harmful effects of sub-concussive and concussive injuries on a wrestler’s brain, it actively concealed these facts from trainers, wrestlers, and the public,’’ the suit states.

The risks of traumatic brain injuries gripped professional wrestling in 2007, after WWE star Chris Benoit killed his wife, his 7-year-old son, and himself. Chris Nowinski, one of Benoit’s wrestling colleagues, said Benoit told him he had experienced “more than I can count.’’

Nowinski, who had retired from WWE in 2003 because of head injuries, later created a concussion research foundation he would affiliate with Boston University. He obtained Benoit’s brain for an autopsy, and his then-partner, Dr. Bennet Omalu, diagnosed Benoit with severe CTE, the first confirmation of the disease in a WWE performer.

Omalu later diagnosed professional wrestler Andrew “Test’’ Martin with CTE. He currently is examining the brains of three deceased wrestlers, including Brian Knighton (Axl Rotten), whose estate is suing WWE with the other 52 plaintiffs.

As part of the 17-count complaint, the former wrestlers criticize the relationship between Nowinski’s Concussion Legacy Foundation and WWE, which has pledged $2.7 million to the BU-affiliated nonprofit. They cite a Globe report that Nowinski and his foundation have not obtained the brain of a wrestler for CTE research since WWE began donating to the nonprofit.

Nowinski successfully fought a subpoena to testify in the lawsuit against WWE brought by the two former performers who had been cleared by a judge to pursue their claim that the company fraudulently failed to warn them about the dangers of head injuries on the job.

or a draft board or whatever you wanna call it. Masked Man's podcast did this and it seems to be the easiest format because who even knows how the 3 picks for every 2 will even play out... so here's my top 10. I guess I focused most on marketability:

1. Seth Rollins - There's a few that you could justify here, but Rollins is the only no-brainer if he's healthy.
2. Dean Ambrose - I'd have him lower if he wasn't like co-title holder right now, but you gotta have one Shield member head both shows.
3. New Day - From a numbers standpoint they have an argument for #1, but whether they stick together or break up I think there's still a lot of money to be made off them.
4. Kevin Owens - If the past few years has proven anything it's that guys who don't have a classic WWE look have never been more popular. Very few flaws in his game and he can feud with anyone, but I don't have to tell you how great he is.
5. A.J. Styles - He's been doing fantastic work since his debut and despite his age they can ride his popularity for a few more years. I'm sure they couldn't be happier with how this has turned out. Shit, he's even getting The Club over and his mic work has been damn near an A+.
6. Sasha Banks - I think/hope the split will elevate the women's division, and in that case I have to have arguably the most talented wrestler on the roster up here. She's still gotta get more consistent work and he mic work can come off a little too scripted at times, but The Boss character is great as both a face and a heel. I don't think it'll be long before we see Sasha and another woman headline a PPV.
7. John Cena - Still money. Would've been 4 or 5 if he wasn't taking a lessened schedule.
8. Roman Reigns - I wouldn't be surprised if Steph drafts him last to fuck with him. Taking this as a real draft though: he's a great worker who's headlined most of the PPVs of the past 1.5 years and has put on entertaining matches almost every time. They have too much invested in him to go away from his push entirely, but he dropped a bunch of spots these past couple weeks.
9. Enzo & Cass - They're just getting started, couldn't be more over, and I could see both of them having decent singles careers too. Lot of fun ways they can go with these two. Just make sure Zo doesn't get his head ripped off and you have the crowd participation thing on lock for years.
10. Bayley - I have to go with an NXT pick somewhere. This is a draft focused on the future so I wouldn't be surprised if Finn and someone else show up in the top 10. It was tough deciding who though, but here's my logic: I'm not as crazy about Finn as everyone else, Shinsuke or Joe coulda been here if they were a little younger, and American Alpha is too young. Like I said with Sasha, they need to push the Women's division to the moon and I think Bayley/Sasha will be the main two to do it with Charlotte/Becky/Paige helping them along the way. For some reason I don't have the same reservations that others have about her ability to get over on the main roster. If you've seen her live you might agree.

Honorable mention: Bray (just couldn't fit him, but had they not screwed up his character he could be in the top 3 easily), Brock (don't think he should be tied to a roster), Charlotte, Cesaro, Rusev, and the NXT wrestlers mentioned.

You've got to get Finn Balor higher on your board!

And I'm sad about agreeing with Sami not being top 10 at this point. I still love him as a character wrestler tho..he's just not as good as Kevin in WWE situations so far.

>or a draft board or whatever you wanna call it. Masked Man's
>podcast did this and it seems to be the easiest format because
>who even knows how the 3 picks for every 2 will even play
>out... so here's my top 10. I guess I focused most on
>marketability:
>
>1. Seth Rollins - There's a few that you could justify here,
>but Rollins is the only no-brainer if he's healthy.
>2. Dean Ambrose - I'd have him lower if he wasn't like
>co-title holder right now, but you gotta have one Shield
>member head both shows.
>3. New Day - From a numbers standpoint they have an argument
>for #1, but whether they stick together or break up I think
>there's still a lot of money to be made off them.
>4. Kevin Owens - If the past few years has proven anything
>it's that guys who don't have a classic WWE look have never
>been more popular. Very few flaws in his game and he can feud
>with anyone, but I don't have to tell you how great he is.
>5. A.J. Styles - He's been doing fantastic work since his
>debut and despite his age they can ride his popularity for a
>few more years. I'm sure they couldn't be happier with how
>this has turned out. Shit, he's even getting The Club over and
>his mic work has been damn near an A+.
>6. Sasha Banks - I think/hope the split will elevate the
>women's division, and in that case I have to have arguably the
>most talented wrestler on the roster up here. She's still
>gotta get more consistent work and he mic work can come off a
>little too scripted at times, but The Boss character is great
>as both a face and a heel. I don't think it'll be long before
>we see Sasha and another woman headline a PPV.
>7. John Cena - Still money. Would've been 4 or 5 if he wasn't
>taking a lessened schedule.
>8. Roman Reigns - I wouldn't be surprised if Steph drafts him
>last to fuck with him. Taking this as a real draft though:
>he's a great worker who's headlined most of the PPVs of the
>past 1.5 years and has put on entertaining matches almost
>every time. They have too much invested in him to go away from
>his push entirely, but he dropped a bunch of spots these past
>couple weeks.
>9. Enzo & Cass - They're just getting started, couldn't be
>more over, and I could see both of them having decent singles
>careers too. Lot of fun ways they can go with these two. Just
>make sure Zo doesn't get his head ripped off and you have the
>crowd participation thing on lock for years.
>10. Bayley - I have to go with an NXT pick somewhere. This is
>a draft focused on the future so I wouldn't be surprised if
>Finn and someone else show up in the top 10. It was tough
>deciding who though, but here's my logic: I'm not as crazy
>about Finn as everyone else, Shinsuke or Joe coulda been here
>if they were a little younger, and American Alpha is too
>young. Like I said with Sasha, they need to push the Women's
>division to the moon and I think Bayley/Sasha will be the main
>two to do it with Charlotte/Becky/Paige helping them along the
>way. For some reason I don't have the same reservations that
>others have about her ability to get over on the main roster.
>If you've seen her live you might agree.
>
>Honorable mention: Bray (just couldn't fit him, but had they
>not screwed up his character he could be in the top 3 easily),
>Brock (don't think he should be tied to a roster), Charlotte,
>Cesaro, Rusev, and the NXT wrestlers mentioned.

don't dislike him at all, just something about the whole package is a little lacking to me and I'm not sold on his ability to get over on the main roster. The Demon/Leather Jacket switch is cool, but I'm not sure what changes about him or why. If he was better on the mic it could tie the character all together. It's also worthwhile to note that he's not young so I wouldn't completely hinge the future on him. He turns 35 next week.

Taking a lot into account here. Actual ability, merch sale ability, marketing etc...

Basically if I'm starting my own company and trust my writers to do good things, who are the 10 people I know will take me to the top.

1. Rollins - A true 5 tool player, should be as great as HBK by the end

2. K.O. - Has everything you need to be the best, in a company where a guy like him can be the man he could easily be the man

3. Sasha Banks - from a pure marketing standpoint she can bring in every demographic and that's on top of having every tool as a wrestler. Masked Man always says how she is the closest thing they've had since the Rock in terms of ability for mass cultural cross over and I agree

4. Roman Reigns - Hate him or Hate him, at the end of the day his merch prints money and I can definitely work him into a better character in my federation

5. Finn Balor - He's the future

6. New Day - Again, merch out the wazoo, but I am getting a little tired of the gimmick.

7. Bray Wyatt - All the potential that still has not been utilized

8. Bayley- For everything Sasha can do, she can be your next Cena and do it for all the little girls you need to watch your show. Plus Sasha needs someone to feud with

9. Ambrose - I thought I liked him a lot more until I started making this list. Still tons to do with him there

10. AJ Styles - For the rest of his career you can make so much money off of him and put him anywhere.

Notable omissions

Cena obviously - I'm just not building a new federation around someone on the down swing, of course I'd want him for $$$ though

Cesaro - Maybe he really can't be the man and the reason everyone loves him so much is because we don't get enough of him

Charlotte - Hard to put 3 women in my top 10, but I'd want her for sure

Nakamura - I almost put him right after Finn, but didn't want to overload in smarky NXT picks. Tie lots of young people in with him as to people I still want.

but I can't justify it quite yet. I'm more excited to see him interact with main roster folks than anyone else on NXT though, and if we do this list after Takeover he may be on there.

1. Seth Rollins
2. AJ Styles
3. Sasha Banks
4. John Cena
5. Charlotte
6. Bray Wyatt
7. Enzo and Cass
8. Dean Ambrose
9. Shinsuke Nakamura
10. Roman Reigns

AJ Styles

Rollins

Sasha Banks

Owens

Charlotte

Samoa Joe

Nakamura

Apollo Crews (reluctantly)

Baron Corbin

Cesaro

Give me Orton as a part time player, the Club for the start of the tag team ranks, and Naomi (for personal reasons)

https://twitter.com/CMPunk/status/755512233988206592

raw got 3:2 picks AND the first pick? cmon.

Why would you take Corbin there? Of all the new talent out there...

This is exactly what went wrong in the original brand split with the tag divison where they tried to have a tag diviaion on each show but rather than have one strong division they had two fucking awful divisions, resulting in teams like Deuce & Domino becoming tag champions. Are they gonna make a second women's title (PLEASE DON'T BRING BACK THE DIVAS TITLE) or are Becky and Natalya just gonna fight each other for no end goal on Smackdown?

I don't exactly know how they'll maneuver around this when those titles were drafted, but they HAVE to know they don't have that kind of depth, right?

and SmackDown gets no "division" titles... hmmm....

I'm loving CWC but as a perhaps annual or one-time event. Signing stars and relegating them to a division like this is like saying "The sky is NOT the limit for you" and that the Cruiserweight division is the best they'll ever achieve.

even if 1 of those leaps over to smackdown 2 of those titles will be unimportant at any given time

Looking at the tag division - there's a good number of tag teams now which is really exciting but the division itself isn't thriving at all. New Day are feuding with Wyatts (no titles on the line as is my understanding), and Enzo & Cass and Anderson & Gallows are included in the Cena/AJ feud.

... Other than that, there's nothing happening with Usos, Dudleys, Vaudevillains, Ascension, Primo & Epico. Surely some of those teams should be feuding with each other.

The women's division as well - the feud that revolves around the title is given air time but very little else is. It's good that the Nattie and Becky feud is getting time but a secondary feud rarely happens. All those women and they're usually allocated about 10-15 minutes of a 3 hour show.

For the cruiserweight division, I imagine they'll have great names attached to it but how much time will the division be allocated. They'll probably have about 10 names but only feature one match per RAW involving the two people involved in the title chase.

I was always really surprised when people were saying there aren't enough wrestlers to justify a brand split. I think there absolutely was enough, they just had to learn to use what they already have.

They only have so many feuds they can play with. Who knows how it'll play out, but I have a feeling that they're just gonna run feuds into the ground and then have nowhere to go, especially on Smackdown. Alexa and Becky could be a lot of fun but how many times can they run with that? American Alpha is great, but they're stuck on a show with teams no one cares about. Presumably they won't have a shot at the belt in the foreseeable future. As you said, the Cruiserweights could easily get one match a week and of course a bunch of those will be "throw everyone in a tag match" situations.

they have the opportunity to make the Cruiserweight Championship a top WORLD title and have another top guy. this would allow them to have multiple top draws (world heavyweight champion, cruiserweight champion, women's champion, tag champions) without the risk of having them beat each other. in mma and boxing you could argue the non-heavyweight divisions are more existing than the big boys, the WWE has the opportunity to create the same thing.

but I'm doubtful on them investing the time to make the divisions a true success.

Also, part of what makes WWE so great is the impossible happening: Rey Mysterio and Daniel Bryan winning the world titles were epic moments and I wouldn't want this division to limit wrestlers to not achieving greater things if the fans get behind them.

I believe Heath Slater is the only uninjured talent to go undrafted.

Round 1 1. Seth Rollins (Raw) 2. Dean Ambrose (SmackDown) 3. Charlotte (Raw) 4. AJ Styles (SmackDown) 5. Finn Bálor (Raw)

Round 2 6. Roman Reigns (Raw) 7. John Cena (SmackDown) 8. Brock Lesnar (Raw) 9. Randy Orton (SmackDown) 10. The New Day (Raw)

Round 3 11. Sami Zayn (Raw) 12. Bray Wyatt (SmackDown) 13. Sasha Banks (Raw) 14. Becky Lynch (SmackDown) 15. Chris Jericho (Raw)

Round 4 16. Rusev w/Lana (Raw) 17. The Miz w/Maryse (SmackDown) 18. Kevin Owens (Raw) 19. Baron Corbin (SmackDown) 20. Enzo Amore and Big Cass (Raw)

Round 5 21. Gallows and Anderson (Raw) 22. American Alpha (SmackDown) 23. Big Show (Raw) 24. Dolph Ziggler (SmackDown) 25. Nia Jax (Raw)

Round 6 26. Neville (Raw) 27. Natalya (SmackDown) 28. Cesaro (Raw) 29. Alberto Del Rio (SmackDown) 30. Sheamus (Raw)

Round 7 31. Golden Truth (Raw) 32. The Usos (SmackDown) 33. Titus O’Neil (Raw) 34. Demon Kane (SmackDown) 35. Paige (Raw)

Round 8 36. Darren Young w/Bob Backlund (Raw) 37. Kalisto (SmackDown) 38. Sin Cara (Raw) 39. Naomi (SmackDown) 40. Jack Swagger (Raw) 41. The Ascension (SmackDown)

Round 9 42. The Dudley Boyz (Raw) 43. Zack Ryder (SmackDown) 44. Summer Rae (Raw) 45. Apollo Crews (SmackDown) 46. Mark Henry (Raw) 47. Alexa Bliss (SmackDown)

Round 10 48. Braun Strowman (Raw) 49. Breezango (SmackDown) 50. Bo Dallas (Raw) 51. Eva Marie (SmackDown) 52. Shining Stars (Raw) 53. The Vaudevillains (SmackDown)

Round 11 54. Alicia Fox (Raw) 55. Erick Rowan (SmackDown) 56. Dana Brooke (Raw) 57. Mojo Rawley (SmackDown) 58. Curtis Axel (Raw) 59. Carmella (SmackDown)

And even the top 5 is a little boring. It can still be good, but on paper it looks like reject island. And the NXT picks/non-picks are weird. If everyone is available why do those people go over Bayley, Joe, and Shinsuke? At least give us a bullshit reason why they're off-limits.

>And even the top 5 is a little boring. It can still be good,
>but on paper it looks like reject island. And the NXT
>picks/non-picks are weird. If everyone is available why do
>those people go over Bayley, Joe, and Shinsuke? At least give
>us a bullshit reason why they're off-limits.

I really wonder how things are going 'backstage' with Nak. It's insane to me if he's not kneeing someone important (like Reigns or Rollins) in the face by next year's Mania.

Bayley almost has to be Sasha's secret partner this Sunday. And/or they may luv her enough to give her a special call up outside of the draft. Whatever they do, if they ruin her, I'll be sad and mad. Otherwise, I got nothing. She's the best horsewoman overall to me. And I luv Sasha. But Bayley tho...them kids are gonna be all up on that if she keeps just being a good person who tries hard and can rassle. I see them hips too but that's not even a part of her thing.

Not taking Joe right now..he's the champ so they could've at least broached that subject. I'm fine if he's 'running' nxt with the tna all-stars and Japan for a while before showing up at the rumble and murking some folks. Or if he gets into a thing with Rusev crush. Nxt is too big to strip down too heavily all at once so I get it to a degree.

But just give us SOME reason Mojo and Carmella were drafted when those people are hypothetically available. For instance, my friend came up with the idea of NXT superstars "declaring" for the draft which would give someone like Shinsuke a chance to say "No, I'm chasing the NXT title right now."

>But just give us SOME reason Mojo and Carmella were drafted
>when those people are hypothetically available. For instance,
>my friend came up with the idea of NXT superstars "declaring"
>for the draft which would give someone like Shinsuke a chance
>to say "No, I'm chasing the NXT title right now."

Yes. Absolutely yes. For that, folks would have to know if they are/aren't getting drafted. Expending on who you ask, that isn't always the case well in advance.

I like that they had a guy like Cesaro call bullshit on when they were drafted. Even if it leads Cesaro back to heeling, I'll take it if it means he gets to take another step forward beyond being a 'have a good match that doesn't really matter much' guy. He's at least somewhat over but he could mess around and be Swiss Ziggla if they aren't careful.

Side: I love Broken Matt Hardy. There's more than one way to skin a cat fo sho. This character is all up in my wheelhouse. Diabolical and weird villain under the guise of desperation to finally 'catch up' in a sibling rivalry = good times. And they can probably stay at the well for a good time as the patch in his hair continues to grow (hilarious). There's so many big words left for him to shoehorn into conversations. His Twitter alone is required viewing...especially when they have to come up with excuses to do Indy shows...obsolete mule! I'll take that over the lazy agenda fest on fb. It sucks that neither one is a great worker nowadays to fully pay off this character work but I'm loving the videos.

from everything i've heard the superstars were kept in the dark for a long time so it's possible he didn't find out where he was going until he was drafted or shortly before. then when jojo asked about steph and mick his complaint sounded 100% real.

edit: oh okay, I hadn't seen the internet's reaction. everyone thinks it's a shoot.

...is Cesaro vs Brock Lesnar. I've felt this way for a long time.

It would take a real concerted effort to heat Cesaro up, a measured long-term push that takes a year or so. But a Cesaro vs Lesnar match could main event anywhere IF DONE RIGHT.

I would mark the fuck out

Slater playing "Conspiracy Theory" Jericho would PRINT money.

>Slater playing "Conspiracy Theory" Jericho would PRINT money.
>

Slater's a fun cat who isn't exactly a bad worker so they could have some fun with this and have him sneak around and be important for a bit...maybe like that time they did Awesome Truth and Killings went 'crazy' and was temporarily 'dangerous'. But better and stuff. As long as they don't try to do their own Hardy thing. Matt beat folks and they just need to let him have it before they further ruin someone (I'm looking at Bray).

Raw: Michael Cole, Corey Graves and Byron Saxton
SD: Mauro, JBL and David Otunga

https://www.wwe.com/article/new-wwe-announce-teams-revealed

>Raw: Michael Cole, Corey Graves and Byron Saxton
>SD: Mauro, JBL and David Otunga
>
>https://www.wwe.com/article/new-wwe-announce-teams-revealed

JBL is capable of real announcing. It's just a matter of if they produce him that way. I hope they don't drag Mauro down. Even tho he's a little 'shouty' at times, I love that Mauro has some of that Jim Ross 'act like it's real' thing that I love/fall for.

Happy he's on RAW but hope he's not leaving NXT.

It ends tonight. And the Cuetos will have all their bones broken.

Matanza vs. Pentagon for the LU title
Mundo & crew vs. Fenix/Drago/Aerostar for the Trios title
El Dragon Azteca vs. Black Lotus
Ivelisse vs. Taya
Mysterio vs. Puma

>It ends tonight. And the Cuetos will have all their bones
>broken.
>
>Matanza vs. Pentagon for the LU title
>Mundo & crew vs. Fenix/Drago/Aerostar for the Trios title
>El Dragon Azteca vs. Black Lotus
>Ivelisse vs. Taya
>Mysterio vs. Puma

Not surprisingly, that was awesome. And they didn't take the easy way out on much of any of it. Season 3 is gonna be crazy.

Pentagon DARK losing. He's so over and the Matanza gimmick is getting old. The opening segment was awesome too. Some of their best work. If they're truly going with heel Pentagon that will be fun, but man... I was hoping he'd go full heel after he got the title.

Pree-Show: The Usos vs. Breezango - Breezango is hot right now. Kinda funny that they were supposed to be fodder for Golden Truth and they came out looking better. Their pairing almost makes too much sense.

Dean Ambrose (c) vs. Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins Triple threat match for the WWE Championship - Seth is their go-to, Reigns is the guy they want to be champ. Dean is the guy they hope can catch up to the other 2. They put the title back on Seth, a move that we'll likely see multiple times when they get desperate.

Sami Zayn vs. Kevin Owens - The end of their current feud? Doubtful with SS around the corner. I think Zayn takes this one

John Cena, Enzo Amore and Big Cass vs. The Club (AJ Styles, Luke Gallows and Karl Anderson) - Team faces. With The Club doing their own thing on Raw I think one of them eats the pin and then they hit the reset button.

Becky Lynch vs. Natalya - Becky I guess

The Miz (c) (with Maryse) vs. Darren Young (with Bob Backlund) for the Intercontinental Title - Could see this going either way but I think they're running with this D. Young storyline and they'd like a face secondary champ.

Rusev (c) (with Lana) vs. Zack Ryder for the United States Championship - CRUSH

The New Day (Big E, Kofi Kingston and Xavier Woods) vs. The Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Braun Strowman) - Wyatts

Sasha Banks and TBD vs. Charlotte and Dana Brooke - Sasha and Bayley. And if it's anyone other than Bayley the pop will be nonexistent.

>Pree-Show: The Usos vs. Breezango - Breezango is hot right
>now. Kinda funny that they were supposed to be fodder for
>Golden Truth and they came out looking better. Their pairing
>almost makes too much sense.
>

You ain't lying. Breezango possibly saved two jobs. And I'm happy about it. Both of those cats are decent workers who are strapped to funny but limited gimmicks in a world where gimmicks don't really work without wins. And hell...heavy comedy gimmickry has never been a grand plan for prolonged main eventing anyway, but you need these type of acts or you're gonna be ROH.

>Dean Ambrose (c) vs. Roman Reigns vs. Seth Rollins Triple
>threat match for the WWE Championship - Seth is their go-to,
>Reigns is the guy they want to be champ. Dean is the guy they
>hope can catch up to the other 2. They put the title back on
>Seth, a move that we'll likely see multiple times when they
>get desperate.
>

I have no idea but I'm guessing the swerve is having Dean survive via pinning Reigns aka Mania 6 warrior over hogan style when Reigns somehow misses a spear and eats a dirty deeds. I'm fine with that. I do not want by God Rollins as a transitional/temp champ. Nope...no...no.

If Reigns wins as a face and doesn't somehow turn this into a heel turn (the club), color me confused or missing some info. Maybe folks are in the crowd booing but buying 3 RR shirts apiece on the way out and I'm unaware.

>Sami Zayn vs. Kevin Owens - The end of their current feud?
>Doubtful with SS around the corner. I think Zayn takes this
>o

I love Sami but he's not as over as I wished he was since he's the best pure face in the company outside of Bayley. If anyone is gonna lay down for him to try to help is KO who is a gloriously horrible person who should be printing money within 2 years.

>
>John Cena, Enzo Amore and Big Cass vs. The Club (AJ Styles,
>Luke Gallows and Karl Anderson) - Team faces. With The Club
>doing their own thing on Raw I think one of them eats the pin
>and then they hit the reset button.
>

We finally see Finn methinks. We might even get jumped into a Finn vs AJ summerfest match cuz this split does not mean what folks think it means when there's 4 supershows a year and one of them is next month.

>Becky Lynch vs. Natalya - Becky I guess
>

Gotsta be Becky. Solid rasslin but it don't matter since Becky is the 4 horsewoman who needs the most booking love to get over even tho she's good-looking and can go.

>The Miz (c) (with Maryse) vs. Darren Young (with Bob
>Backlund) for the Intercontinental Title - Could see this
>going either way but I think they're running with this D.
>Young storyline and they'd like a face secondary champ.
>

Young is over like rover but I could see this being dragged into Summerfesf so that they feel like folks had to 'wait' for Young.

>Rusev (c) (with Lana) vs. Zack Ryder for the United States
>Championship - CRUSH
>

Certainly a CRUSH.

>The New Day (Big E, Kofi Kingston and Xavier Woods) vs. The
>Wyatt Family (Bray Wyatt, Erick Rowan and Braun Strowman) -
>Wyatts
>

Wyatts. Or TND so that the Wyatt's can kick Strowman outta the group.

>Sasha Banks and TBD vs. Charlotte and Dana Brooke - Sasha and
>Bayley. And if it's anyone other than Bayley the pop will be
>nonexistent.

I don't know who it could be other than Bayley unless they are TRYING to get someone booed out of the building more than RR. Nia Jax? Naomi returning and being placed in a doa spot outta the gate?

Dirty Deeds sucks as a finisher, but that'd be cool. I don't see Strowman getting kicked out just cause I don't see any of them turning face right now. I think it'll be more of a "go fuck dudes up on Raw for us and we'll meet up later."

>Dirty Deeds sucks as a finisher, but that'd be cool. I don't
>see Strowman getting kicked out just cause I don't see any of
>them turning face right now. I think it'll be more of a "go
>fuck dudes up on Raw for us and we'll meet up later."

Well...kinda sorta! Hehe. Or not. Bayley + good crowd + ko/Sami going to town + Enzo/cass relegating Cena to third man status + Dean sneaky win = innanet rejoices, looks at dressed up Becky Lynch will lustful glee, and goes to sleep lacking outrage on a show where Cena won a match.

I love Dean as champ for a bit more even if he gets got by a non-Cena entity at summerfest.

In as much as we'll see whether he is genuinely considered as someone who can be a legitimate face of the company or whether he was used solely for the cool spot of having all 3 members of the Shield hold the title in one night.

If he loses the title tonight, it's potentially the equivalent of what happened to Zack Ryder at Mania so I'm really hoping he leaves with the belt otherwise he may never hold it again.

Maybe I'm reading too much into it though...?

>In as much as we'll see whether he is genuinely considered as
>someone who can be a legitimate face of the company or whether
>he was used solely for the cool spot of having all 3 members
>of the Shield hold the title in one night.
>
>If he loses the title tonight, it's potentially the equivalent
>of what happened to Zack Ryder at Mania so I'm really hoping
>he leaves with the belt otherwise he may never hold it again.
>
>Maybe I'm reading too much into it though...?

Maybe. Ambrose is over like rover backstage. His stuff with HHH earlier this year prolly earned him hella goodwill. I know most of us didn't love how he went out vs beef con carne at mania, but I think he's good no matter what goes down tonight. I maintain that Reigns winning clean with no story wrinkle would be the worst finish in a good while.

And I honestly think the negative reaction for that mania match may force Brock to come out of the suplex city match format and mix it up a bit.

>Lots of stuff coming down the pike. Shield triple threat.
>Wyatts vs. New Day. Brand split. McMahon drama for some
>reason.

It's Bayley right? And Charlotte will sell it like its Goldberg and I'll love it, right? They know that's what folks want, right? Even if she goes back to nxt and this is a one-night thing for now, right?

If not...it's Eva Marie so she can soak up hella boos and go ahead, right?

Velvet Sky?

Awesome Kong?

They wouldn't do this Naomi, right?

Who is it gonna be?

and I don't think it will be her but the ONLY one that can generate a WTF reaction is Rousey!

I'm willing to bet Vince has secured her as part of the Lesnar trade-off. Clearly her big pay day is Mania but perhaps it's not impossible she could walk down the ring tonight.

I am hoping it's Bayley though.

Asuka would be f'n awesome too!!

the refs kept fucking up. Woods never tagged in but ate the pin. That Miz/D Young ending made no sense.

-surprised they gave it to Dean, but that's great for him and the main event scene overall. He was only kinda floating around the main event before and now he's solidly in there. Should have some fun matches with Styles eventually.

-Hooray Bayley!

-Dana Brooks screws up every interference and save. It's truly bizarre at this point.

-Sami and KO beat the living hell out of each other. That was glorious.

-Team faces vs. The Club was a hot match and the ending completely sucked the air out of the room. Have Enzo or Cass pin the Club. Cena doesn't need it and no one wants to see it. Cmon.

>the refs kept fucking up. Woods never tagged in but ate the
>pin. That Miz/D Young ending made no sense.
>
>-surprised they gave it to Dean, but that's great for him and
>the main event scene overall. He was only kinda floating
>around the main event before and now he's solidly in there.
>Should have some fun matches with Styles eventually.
>
>-Hooray Bayley!
>
>-Dana Brooks screws up every interference and save. It's truly
>bizarre at this point.
>
>-Sami and KO beat the living hell out of each other. That was
>glorious.
>
>-Team faces vs. The Club was a hot match and the ending
>completely sucked the air out of the room. Have Enzo or Cass
>pin the Club. Cena doesn't need it and no one wants to see it.
>Cmon.

Zoomed out, the show was supreme. Cena hasn't won a match in a bit so I'll take it since that was a nothing 6-man tag. And Enzo/Cass are huge for talking. They have both things: a set speech and crazy vamps that hit more than they miss.

Zoomed in, rasslin is hard and refs play a huge part. And there's newish folks in a lot of spots, so there'll be problems at times. Dana can't stop screwing up somehow. Good thing she's stacked. Sami and KO wasn't perfect but they're brilliant workers so it didn't deeply matter because they worked through it pretty well...well enough that you wonder if it was planned or not.

He had to roll with a mistake cause it was time to go home. The Miz/D. Young thing was a real headscratcher.

Enzo was on fucking fire last night. Holy shit. His schtick is not as mechanical as it was a month ago. Very nice.

I was into it, then I just felt myself being bored. I hope it was just that I was just ready for the match to start cause I don't want to get bored with those two guys.

As far as Cena getting the pin for the win, as mentioned above I was too mad about it because Cena hadn't won in a while and plus it was a meaningless 6 man tag match. I just didn't like the way it finished.

I had high hopes for the D. Young/Backlund pairing cause I thought this could be something that weirdly interesting, but I think after last night I'm ready to sell my stock in the pairing. Definitely one of the odd finishes I can remember in recent memory. I knew Miz would retain to give SD a secondary title though.

I think the main event was solid though. I was hoping Reigns would've finally went full heel and him and Rollins destroy Ambrose and he walks out leaving Rollins to pin. Retaliation for the dirty deeds he received a while back. But with the split I knew that was out of the mix.

Over all as mentioned, solid show, head scratching finishes.

Zo is a mixed bag because he spits so many one liners and the length of their segments is definitely noticeable when he's not in that zone.

One of my favorite things about Mitch Hedberg is that when he spit a fail he would generally find a way to make the fail itself funny. I'm hoping Zo will devlop something along those lines when a line doesn't hit.

Last night he was damn near flawless so the length didn't bug me but I hear you on that one.

I was trying to be nice about the time lol

>Zo is a mixed bag because he spits so many one liners and the
>length of their segments is definitely noticeable when he's
>not in that zone.
>

Yeah, when he's in that zone he definitely kills it

>One of my favorite things about Mitch Hedberg is that when he
>spit a fail he would generally find a way to make the fail
>itself funny. I'm hoping Zo will devlop something along those
>lines when a line doesn't hit.
>

+10 for the Hedberg ref!! If he develops something like that his promos would be a hit 90% of the time. That would be a good idea for them to pitch.


>Last night he was damn near flawless so the length didn't bug
>me but I hear you on that one.

It was probably just me ready for the match to start lol. But he was definitely in that zone last night.

The Orton segment? Entirely too long.

>I knew Miz would retain to give SD a secondary
>title though.

Right. Forgot they were on different brands. I'm still on board for now but last night didn't do them any favors. And to be fair, anything with Backlund is going to have a lot of incoherent moments. Good with the bad.

Dude's a genius. Straight up, will be the best talker to ever do it if he gets the time and freedom.

Will check it out again.

Mostly surprised at the lack of pop for RKO. Segment kinda got there eventually, but seemed pretty subdued, until "enhancement." Was that off-script? Jericho's reaction seemed to indicate that it was.

Good matches, despite the botches.

Felt terrible for Fandango though.

>Felt terrible for Fandango though.

It was a good line, though. Jericho's expression sold it beautifully, too.

>Felt terrible for Fandango though.

Uncalled for Randy.

Wonder where he'll go from here...?

Even though he ate the pin, I think he looked strong in the match. Looking forward to seeing how it goes for him on RAW.

or any of the like...

but on the panel during the draft Booker T was basically just telling it how it is when asked about Roman's return, basically saying how the fans have been hating him, and even The Uso's were asked how how it felt to be grouped with him and getting those kinds of reactions just by association.

my question though since i don't normally watch the panels, is are they always telling it how it is or do they keep a level of kayfabe and spew dumb excuses a la "they love booing this guy" (c) JBL ?

it seems to me like they are finally giving up on the Roman super push (he's now been pinned clean in his last two PPV matches) and are just going to let the fans win this battle and let him be more of himself and a heel.

what I have seen is them keeping it somewhere in the middle in terms of "Let's look forward to a great match" and they don't get too bogged down with kayfabe as you say.

I may watch the recent one as Booker's comments may be interesting.

during his entrance last night. And now that I'm rewatching it I think they've edited boos out of the match itself.

I just don't get it. The guy is such a natural heel, his face push didn't catch, and he put you in a position where it's almost impossible to not turn him heel. Just go with it WWE.

shit just name them after the shows.

"we named it after you guys...the WWE Universe" FOH

I've never watched NXT, so I never realized Finn Balor was Prince Devitt that won the Super Junior and IWGP JR titles. When he came out on stage tonight, I was like "he looks familiar", then when i saw him in ring it hit me....what an idiot I feel like. But that begs a question for me, a guy that hasn't watched NXT...I was always under the assumption that NXT was like, for lack of a better term, WWE's triple A affiliate, a top level developmental territory...but with Balor, Owens (I remember him as Kevin Steen in Ring of Honor and Combat Zone) Samoa Joe, , Nakamura...apparently my uninformed opinion isn't correct. Is it just an all-star group of raided talent from other promotions, is it new guys, a combo of both? Please help me understand...

part newbies
- they sign/cut straight up rookies all the time and try to raise them up within the WWE style. i see why they do this but i'm not particularly fond of it as it limits their skillset.

part established/developing talent
- to either get them used to WWE style wrestling/presentation or get them in shape for a main roster run. or just figure out a workable gimmick for experienced people and see if they can work in the WWE.

part vets
- they get some former WWE people like Rhyno just to throw em some cash and keep it in the family. or they get people like Sara Del Ray to train the current talent

then sometimes main roster people do an ep or 2 of NXT just so they can see how some of the promising talent has come along. Cesaro has some amazing matches on NXT.

what else am i missing? i think that covered it all.

they are usually better than the WWE PPVs. the next one is NXT Brooklyn which will be the night before Summer Slam. last year's featured one of the best WWE matches of the year, Sasha Banks v. Bayley.

their weekly show is usually just squash matches and promos with a good main event every couple of weeks. no need to really watch. anyone who is important will be on the Takeover shows.

Lesnar pisses gasoline...nothing done.

Brock; "We'll get to the bottom of this"

2nd sample...gasoline again.

WWE response is...to book him vs Orton @ Summerslam without even a statement?

Apparently, their wellness program only applies to the full timers.

http://www.tmz.com/2016/07/26/brock-lesnar-no-wwe-punishment-for-failed-ufc-drug-tests/

She's the best.

I just wish they didn't spoil it. When they did the close up of Charlotte before the end, you knew it was over, just like the Shawn Michaels /Flair moment in Flair's retirement match. Add the "new era" beating us over the head all night...it spoiled the moment for me. Had they just let it happen organically, it would have been fantastic.

Happy for Banks, she earned it and Charlotte was a very good heel champion.

this is one of the best eps of Raw I've seen.

new logo
new theme
new set
new faces
new camera work (love coming from behind on entrances)
immediate post-match reaction interviews a la UFC
bringing back jobbers for squash matches!!
holy shit, just imagine if Raw had the luxury of being 2 hours???

it's not hyperbolic to say this was one of the best episodes of Raw in the series history from front to back

>new logo
>new theme
>new set
>new faces
>new camera work (love coming from behind on entrances)
>immediate post-match reaction interviews a la UFC
>bringing back jobbers for squash matches!!
>holy shit, just imagine if Raw had the luxury of being 2
>hours???
>
>it's not hyperbolic to say this was one of the best episodes
>of Raw in the series history from front to back

There were so many adult finishes over the last two nights. It's crazy to see. It makes a helluva difference. It doesn't hurt that darlings got wins but on what planet does Prince Devitt pin Rusev Crush and Reigns in one night? And ohh...you got everything from Indy to Japan to young homegrown all up on the scene. Friggin sweet. This roster is ridiculous. And now we're finally actually getting to the point where it is showing.

And jobber squashes! Whooooooooooo! You need a few of those to make it even more real when good/long matches happen.

And folks need to cut it out with the continued RR hate. Reigns has had almost all dope matches this year. Only really that snoozer with HHH was a true stinker. And that wasn't really on him. He's supreme in there with smaller guys that he can throw around. But he'll bump and sell for anyone so everything works. This suspension and jobbing out may be the best thing that happens to him if he doesn't let it kill him off backstage/with the boys/etc.

Good times. I await smackdown.

I was expecting a less than lackluster performance. Each match he was in he brought it more than the previous one.

Me in response to being offered Raw tickets for last night.

>Me in response to being offered Raw tickets for last night.

OUCH!

>Me in response to being offered Raw tickets for last night.

The innanet did this to you! No one could've called what went down but this was a raw to see 'just to see if something was going down'. As soon as you saw the announcers moved and folks already in the ring/cutting to the chase, something was up. And then rasslin happened with a bunch of finishes. That alone is something I can't see continuing (the finishes).

usually they like to make a big deal about everything to the point that the result is pretty telegraphed. Had Sasha's big win come at Summerslam it wouldn't have gotten that pop because everyone would've seen it coming. That's a really good sign for things to come, and I hope they can rework Smackdown creatively to make it just as fun. Dean pinning Seth and Roman clean in one week for the title gives the show a lot of credibility, and now I actually believe they'll put the title on Styles eventually which was unthinkable a couple months ago.

While they're heavily incorporating new people, which could confuse the casual viewer temporarily, if the show has that feeling that something crazy could happen any given week it will help their ratings in the long run. the look and feel of the show is a huge upgrade even if it isn't perfect. They can make some tweaks, but it went surprisingly smoothly for a night where they tried some different stuff. It seemed like it took Graves an hour or so to get in his groove and then he was as good as usual. There were a couple small misses like the New Day bit, and the "Universal" title is a dreadful name, but in the era of 3-hour Raws that's the best one they've had.

Please remind me of this reply during the dog days of Fall.

They should have just renamed the belts after the shows. I would have been hella corny, but it would've made sense and been better than a name that a janitor gave when he just so happened to pass by and overhear the discussion and added his 2.3 cents in the convo.

That New Day bit was probably one of their worst. Like no entertainment value to me at all. At least there weren't too many terrible missteps. I do like the announce team being away from the ring now though. Reminds me a little of Nitro and it now kills the Spanish announce table as a prop lol.

As bad of a name as it is, it seems to carry pretty clear implications

Raw is the Universal title, Smackdown is the World title. Not surprising given that Smackdown is clearly the developmental show post draft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUCybO2H4xQ

It's interesting although I don't actually think it's true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-y45gF6UQg

https://twitter.com/WWE/status/758097510409707520

:(

:(

why the hell didn't they just put the entire division on one show again????

Haven't seen her...if she can scrap, I'm in love.

the intro announcer being played over her entrance music is the highlight of the show so far, although that's not saying much.

>Haven't seen her...if she can scrap, I'm in love.

She's better than she was but she was horrible. She pretty much can't talk either. But yeah...she's stupid hot even on a show with a gang of good-looking women around. She'll get carried to decent stuff and it'll be fine if she ever sneaks around and gets good ala Miz.

I'm most sad that Carmella isn't with Enzo and Cass (yet).

How'd that happen?

I like the new look of the show but this was a rough first go-round.

Ambrose/Ziggler? When they could have had AJ, or Corbin, or Bray, or (I don't believe I'm saying this) Cena? I can't believe they did this...

Jesus. He was just going back and forth with Corbin on the preshow every month.

if they're setting up main events that are more like midcard matches there will be a lot of yawns.

It could then work.

If Ziggler does his usual limpdick "ra ra, I work hard and DESERVE A CHANCE!" shtick the program is dead in the water

This would have been the perfect situation to introduce him as Dolph's heater.

>Ambrose/Ziggler? When they could have had AJ, or Corbin, or
>Bray, or (I don't believe I'm saying this) Cena? I can't
>believe they did this...

I can't stop wishing that Cesaro was on SD tho. He'd shine like crazy on that roster. I can't help but think that's still gonna happen along with sd getting (more) outta the blue dudes/cool returns. They basically have to get Kurt whenever he shows up too. Aka I think Smackdown will eventually be really good too as long as they don't give up on it after folks shit on it since it won't be up to raw's level on the restart after they intimated that it would be.

Forreal tho...they couldn't top by God Rollins vs Finn Fucking Balor. This is super true with Finn pinning Rusev Crush and 'I don't care if he's in the doghouse, it's still' Roman Reigns in the same night. Crazy enough...Rollins didn't rassle on Raw right? Damn...think about that. That show was silly good and Rollins wasn't even a big part of it.

AJ will be the champ bedore they turn him into super Ziggla I hope. I'm fine if they get the Ziggla thing outta the way to see if it works or if it leads to him with AJ and others doing the angry good workers-style SD branch of Balor Club (with Cesaro).

And I love Miz and good and fine Maw-Reese but I'm okay if Cena whoops his ass at summerfest or sometime soon and starts doing challenges again to make the US title 'compete' with the world title like New Japan does it with their two big singles belts.

I'll wait to see how the next few ppv cards go before I hate too hard on Smackdown. It's obvious that they are the 2nd show to start since they didn't get folks who had been cooked up already. Some of these cats are just outta the freezer so they'll need some time to win stuff,, have good matches, and convince us that they're good and important. It's the same with the women on their roster. Aka we need to expect that they have to Buiiiiiiiiiiiild...IT UP! (C) Eddie Cain Jr.

Working on Ziggla and Bray are fine places to start. Husky needs some damn wins post-haste. And go ahead and push Corbin and Crews on occasion to see if ether catches. Or turn Corbin into Ziggla's Diesel/Big E and give them Bliss (with them cakes) to make another trio. Crews is toast if they can't get him some character work to break his stigma of being bland.

And JBL has to get good again and come out of bad raw announcer mode. Mauro got saddled with 2 shaky ones it seems. They might need to get at Josh Barnett to bring that steez that Corey Graves is working with.

first time im watching a full raw in a few months. overall very solid and filled with action and sensible booking.

my observations over the course of the night

- like the new angles. even just starting out in this promo.
- charlotte looks different now :)
- big e's reactions during this opening are gold.
- it's really amazing to me how much the roster is comprised of new talent now.
- wow they're really leaning on balors outside accomplishments. superpush like shit off the jump.
- corey graves is still real good on the commentary. he has a voice for boxing or ufc i think. im surprised they went with him being so new though. i still don't like byron though.
- so balor's gonna save the paint for a minute. it just hit me but he reminds me of blade 1 villains. he looks like he'd roll with deacon frost.
- nia looks like a mean chick in her promos. its funny to see her compared to her instagram.
- sasha gives a really good promo
- that jericho botch looool. i almost thought he meant it at first.
- this is a great intentionally cheesy package for the new day
- charlotte cut a good promo too
- i dont like that the crowd noise is turned off during intros
- eva marie is bad as fuck man. good grief.
- i like the post fight ringside interview


other unrelated comments
- in this smackdown live commercial, i see baron corbin. is there really a push for him?

I figured he was a plant, lol.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5F-C04q70B0

as soon as they bypassed fine women and little kids to pick the fat bald guy wearing a Booty-Os shirt.

I don’t think they realized how many of us have given up on him completely. Had they given him a title shot at the 2015 Royal Rumble after the masterful revitalization job they did at the 2014 Survivor Series, he would have had all the momentum and fan support in the world.

As Tiger pointed out, this can’t be a simple face vs face match. He needs to be a heel and the next month needs to be spent building nuclear heat for him. Shit, give him Eva Marie as a valet while their at it and add a big man heater. Come to think of it, Corbin would have been an ideal call up at this point in time for that particular role. I’m trying to think of who they can either call up or sign for that role but I’ve got nothing.

I’m just spit balling on the Eva Marie/bodyguard thing, but the point is they need to do something to flip a switch on him in a big way now. That kind of blows because I still want to cheer the guy and would have liked to have seen this push come on the face side of things.

Definitely wouldn’t have been my choice here but since they picked him I think an immediate heel turn is the way to go.

Styles was the obvious candidate based on the way the draft panned out. Personally I would have drafted Somoa Joe and Cesaro to Smackdown and given this slot to Joe, but that’s me.

I will say it was pretty clear on draft night that Dolph was going to need to be elevated right away if this show was going to have a chance and at least they’re doing the smart thing from that standpoint. I’m not sure how much credit they should get for correcting a fuckup they didn’t need to make to begin with but there you have it.

Dolph wasn’t the worst choice in the world and it’s going to take some serious work on the creative side but… This can work. I'll give it two more episodes before I shit on it. in no way am I expressing faith that it will work. Just that it can.

>I don’t think they realized how many of us have given up on
>him completely. Had they given him a title shot at the 2015
>Royal Rumble after the masterful revitalization job they did
>at the 2014 Survivor Series, he would have had all the
>momentum and fan support in the world.
>

Yep, they dropped the ball on that one. He was white hot at that time and he was pure money.

>As Tiger pointed out, this can’t be a simple face vs face
>match. He needs to be a heel and the next month needs to be
>spent building nuclear heat for him. Shit, give him Eva Marie
>as a valet while their at it and add a big man heater. Come to
>think of it, Corbin would have been an ideal call up at this
>point in time for that particular role. I’m trying to think
>of who they can either call up or sign for that role but
>I’ve got nothing.
>
>I’m just spit balling on the Eva Marie/bodyguard thing, but
>the point is they need to do something to flip a switch on him
>in a big way now. That kind of blows because I still want to
>cheer the guy and would have liked to have seen this push come
>on the face side of things.
>

The *ONLY* reason I wouldn't be cool with this is because he had that already with E/AJ. I wouldn't want them to rehash it again, but that's just me.

>Definitely wouldn’t have been my choice here but since they
>picked him I think an immediate heel turn is the way to go.
>
>Styles was the obvious candidate based on the way the draft
>panned out. Personally I would have drafted Somoa Joe and
>Cesaro to Smackdown and given this slot to Joe, but that’s
>me.
>

AJ was the safe choice here, but I figured they'd want to use SS as a way to put the finale on the Styles/Cena angle. I figured Bray would've been the logical choice for heel to Dean's face.


>I will say it was pretty clear on draft night that Dolph was
>going to need to be elevated right away if this show was going
>to have a chance and at least they’re doing the smart thing
>from that standpoint. I’m not sure how much credit they
>should get for correcting a fuckup they didn’t need to make
>to begin with but there you have it.
>
>Dolph wasn’t the worst choice in the world and it’s going
>to take some serious work on the creative side but… This can
>work. I'll give it two more episodes before I shit on it. in
>no way am I expressing faith that it will work. Just that it
>can.


^^^^I'm with you on this.

>Yep, they dropped the ball on that one. He was white hot at
>that time and he was pure money.

What's fucked is that they had Ryback right there too. They magically rebuilt Dolph and Ryback both leading into that show, but they hoed out Ryback early. Dolph was white hot after that night and Ryback would have been too.

>The *ONLY* reason I wouldn't be cool with this is because he
>had that already with E/AJ. I wouldn't want them to rehash it
>again, but that's just me.

Yeah I'm not thrilled with the rehash but I think it's a proven formula for him. Dolph could just come out and spit a promo about how he's been there before and knows what it takes to protect himself from the powers that be or whatever and bring out his little crew.

Ultimately I think it's the surest, safest way to ramp this up quickly and make that proverbial chicken salad.

Actually, I have a fucking EUREKA moment as we speak give him Breeze and Fandango and Eva Marie, then find some muscle to debut around SS.

It's similar but that would give him- AND Smackdown overall- a different enough dynamic that they can write a credible new chapter for him.

Give Breezango a real fucking name and find some credible muscle and that's a nice little stable.

>Actually, I have a fucking EUREKA moment as we speak give him
>Breeze and Fandango and Eva Marie, then find some muscle to
>debut around SS.
>
>It's similar but that would give him- AND Smackdown overall- a
>different enough dynamic that they can write a credible new
>chapter for him.
>
>Give Breezango a real fucking name and find some credible
>muscle and that's a nice little stable.


I agree that the only way to get him heat as a heel is to have *that* kind of company around him and as you mentioned he works better that way especially for a quick heel turn with mad heat on him.

Now, Breezango and Eva Marie could work. That would work long enough for them to find that muscle and develop them in NXT that (if he wins the title) he could prolong his reign by having that muscle surprise run-in and help him retain. Honestly pairing him with Eva alone probably could do it cause as mentioned above she is a heat magnet. I dig that idea for a stable though. They're all meant for each other character wise.

The best thing about the draft wasn't just that new guys get opportunities but that people who have waited a long time get them as well. I don't foresee Dolph taking the belt but a WHT match at SummerFest is a great acknowledgement of his efforts (and patience!).

I should say that I'm no fan of Ziggler but when someone is over, then it should be rewarded. The Survivor Series you mention was a great promotion only for it to come to absolutely nothing which was crazy booking!

I think Smackdown did a great job - we've established the key heavyweight contenders, given a nice push for Crews and I would guess that the next time AJ competes for the title, he'll win it. I'm not currently seeing a title change at SummerFest so wouldn't want to see AJ (or Bray) fail again.

Plus...the match will be great. It can't top Balor/Rollins but they'll do a great job!

>I should say that I'm no fan of Ziggler but when someone is
>over, then it should be rewarded. The Survivor Series you
>mention was a great promotion only for it to come to
>absolutely nothing which was crazy booking!

It went nowhere because it was never meant to be Dolph in that position anyway. It was supposed to be Reigns standing tall and ending the Authority as the lone survivor, and starting his megapush to RR and WM there.

Instead he got hurt, Dolph filled in for that one spot, and then they picked back up with Reigns when he got back while Dolph slid back down to midcard irrelevance. They are ready to change plans when they need to (injuries, suspensions), but it's back to the desired path as soon as possible. Dolph was red hot, it's such a shame it went nowhere.

I can't really claim to understand the logic that says "Let's build someone up for a month or two then dump him". So crazy. You'd think the cheers he was getting as a result would indicate he was money.

Wonder why they didn't just let Cena be the star of that Survivor Series match(?)

>Wonder why they didn't just let Cena be the star of that
>Survivor Series match(?)

and they knew they couldn't do that with Cena vs. any number of people. The rest of the team was Ryback, Rowan, and Show (who turned of course) and I think Ziggler makes a better face-in-peril than those guys. Still it was weird that they didn't really push him after that. I mean why wouldn't you after all that effort?

Still it was weird that they
>didn't really push him after that. I mean why wouldn't you
>after all that effort?

Ziggler and Ambrose will have a good match at Summerslam. Ambrose should win cleanly after a competitive 20 minute affair.

Ziggler should come out the following Tuesday to take his L like a man, then turn on Ambrose (preferably with a big bully heater)

Ziggler should go full Shawn in 97 prick heel. And he should win the title at Survivor Series. And I really think he could completely reinvent himself and get even more over. He needs a refresh more than anyone and a heel turn could help in a major way.

Ziggler was denied in epic fashion and although I don't foresee him taking the Gold at SummerFest, this re-introduces him and gives Ambrose a great fight.

Ziggler's HBK homage is a bit weird so I'm loving the makeover and a heel turn suggestion. Missing out on the title would be a solid reason to push him over the edge too.

It’s fucking mind boggling that those three guys are out there right now. This roster would look pretty interesting with the addition of those three.

Unfortunately, Healthy Wade Barrett never really existed.

That said, Reigns is still a star if they keep him to what he's good at: trucking fools and mean-mugging them. He's not the stick guy that you build a 20-minute in-ring promo around. He never was in the Shield, and that's why he was so awesome then. I'd also argue that NOBODY is the guy for a 20 minute in-ring promo.

There isn't that "jacked up" talent on this roster to run through people (correct me if its not, but I'm not counting Kane, lol) and be that "force". That seems to be the talent that creative like to toy with the most and make (and in cases, break) them.

which is what they're looking to do. not that those guys won't bring any excitement, but they tend to lose their luster after a little bit. The Dudley Boys return was hot for like a month maybe.

especially Cody

I pitched something similar when there were rumors of Goldust vs Cody at Mania a few years ago...but the Foley game was RIGHT there for Cody and they never pulled the trigger.

I mean imagine if Cody got drafted to Smackdown and Stardust got drafted to Raw? How fun would that have been?

have him hold both US and IC belts for a minute then have Cody "challenge" Stardust for one of the belts on Night of Champions (I'd use that as a Network/Cable exclusive show with both shows). Cut promos on himself, etc. Hell I wouldn't know how to do the payoff lol, but that would have been interesting to see.

The fact that they didn't do any split personality stuff after it was clear the Cody chants bothered him is a huge missed opportunity. Have Cody struggling to get out when he hears those chants or something. Maybe one leads the Ascension and the other wants nothing to do with them and has no idea why they're talking to him. You could just rip all the best parts of Fight Club but in a David Bowie character.

>It’s fucking mind boggling that those three guys are out
>there right now. This roster would look pretty interesting
>with the addition of those three.

I wish Barrett wasn't so unlucky with his injury history. WWE has a legacy of souring on some cats who get hurt right before pushes..even if it could labeled as 'freak' injury. I'm glad they aren't fucking around with By God Rollins after saddling him with Kane for months.

Cody is an obvious miss. As long as HHH does his 'mend them fences' thing, I'm comfortable in assuming he'll be back and better off for leaving within a few years. He's set to be on evolve shows, so I'm guessing him and wwe are already on decent terms.

Ryback's worst sin is not being Brian Cage. 2nd one...everyone completely turned on him after Phil hated on him on Colt's show. Last one: he was in the wrong place at the wrong time when the Shield took off. He seems solid in the ring nowadays with the average guy around him being smaller which helps him look more 'powerful'.

Where to we stand on ADR? To me, they view him as Mexican first and foremost which undermines what he can do in and out of the ring. Mexico DiBiase is what he needs to be and it would work again since it's awesome and dude can work. But he's taking up space and likely done after his contract is up.

When dude's whole gimmick was "super strong" and he struggled several times to lift the bigger dudes on the roster.

he lifted Mark perfectly fine the night after Mania if I remember correctly and then did a heel turn vs Cena. It was all very tone deaf IMO.

Then we had the aforementioned microwave job in the build toward SS and again they just downgraded him immediately after his build.

In ROH, he was over like fat raaaat

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NHMlDE4JEM

as a face, then emerges at Destination X with Miracle Mike Bennett...with the EXACT same gimmick/crowd antics...except the TNA audience has no clue who he is, so it sucks. Then he got on the mic this week...bad beyond belief. I think this is the worst place for Moose to go, since his main hook is being a huge black athletic dude, and the champion is...Lashley, who is bigger, more cut, and at least as athletic if not more so. I don't get the move on any level, except I guess Moose is getting paid more in Impact than he was in ROH.

I still say E-LI-DRAKE is the best on the mic in TNA...and that isn't an insult to the rest of the Dummies (yeah), it's just a Fact of Life. The Matt Hardy crazy thing was very good for a while, but they are losing me fast....partly because Matt simply can't work as well as he can play the part, partly because adding gray to the streak (as I think Jimaveli said) and yelling "obsolete" isn't plot development. I'm guessing that his wife is trying for mini-me Vickie Guerrero, but it ain't happening.

ROH - I like how things have been going with the crossover promotion with New Japan...that is part of what ECW great before it was bastardized. However, my main point of excitement currently is the potential for a War Machine vs Keith Lee/Shane Taylor feud. Always liked War Machine, and these two brothers look like they can do a little something. (Keith Lee doing suicide dives over the top rope at his size is impressive IMO) This will either be great or a total dud, and I'm hoping for great, though I realize that four men of that size usually don't make for great matches.

I'm guessing WWE made him a lesser NXT offer and he went with TNA, but they have such a bad rep about paying people what they're owed (on time nonetheless) that I'm surprised every time a big FA goes there.

.

Yep....

The Ambrose/Ziggler back & forth was excellent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j-oQhKiPp0

Nice to see Corbin prominently featured again, a good boost also for Crews. They're using their team well at the moment. Would like to see the women more prominently featured though.

Lesnar/Orton
Balor/Rollins
Ambrose/Ziggler
Styles/Cena
Sasha/Charlotte
Miz/Apollo Crews

Man that's a fire lineup. We'll see if they deliver on its potential but one can't help but be excited.

There should still be a few more matches to announce one of which I'm betting will see New Day lose the belts to A&G.

The little subtle dig at TNA was hilarious though.

I'm nitpicking, but it seems they are turning Ambrose heel instead of Zigs. Or well, at least the promo leads it that way. I would much rather have the roles reversed if that's the case. Either case works.

Still too early to say how all this will play out in the long run, but at least for two weeks both shows have been entertaining and the boring moments on Raw are far less frequent than they have been. I'd still be in favor of moving it to two hours though.

Which I loved. It's a great back & forth that makes it look like there's genuine tension between them. Great interaction.

I'll always agree that a 2-hour RAW is stronger than a 3 and I think it's that extra hour that will make Smackdown the superior show in the long run.

but I don't know if having the ultimate tweener of all tweeners in Orton and Bray both be that on the same show (I know Orton is a face now, but eventually he will turn heel then revert to his tweener role where he excels at it) . If he was on Raw I can see it. Personally I don't know if I can handle Bray as a face just yet.

I've always seen him that way but I remember someone posted here a while ago that it would've been awesome for HHH & Stephanie (as The Authority) to have been in the ring when the lights go out and Bray is standing opposite HHH having selected them as his next victims. The crowd definitely would have eaten that up.

couple of little storylines that are interesting enough to rope you in and pay off by the end of 2 hours. hope they can keep that going. Dolph and Dean brought it in the opening segment, so I'm in for now. AJ's become a master heel.

I'm honestly surprised at how good that was.

but the end of Raw had the better payoff moment. Seems like they really are competing instead of doing the ol' A show and B show. SD is standing on its own so far.

I'm so excited!!! Gonna have to listen tomorrow though. He's in character for the whole thing. Bliss!

http://www.podcastone.com/pg/jsp/program/episode.jsp?programID=593&pid=1666536

I'm dying

>I'm so excited!!! Gonna have to listen tomorrow though.
>He's in character for the whole thing. Bliss!
>
>http://www.podcastone.com/pg/jsp/program/episode.jsp?programID=593&pid=1666536
>

The cold water on this is that this character can't exactly last forever. For as long as it does though, I think I'm going to like it. They just need to occasionally do a vignette or two and keep the social media absurdity alive. This pod certainly satisfies absurdity.

>I'm so excited!!! Gonna have to listen tomorrow though.
>He's in character for the whole thing. Bliss!
>
>http://www.podcastone.com/pg/jsp/program/episode.jsp?programID=593&pid=1666536
>

Out in laughter. I've had to pause it twice and I'm about halfway through. This is some of the best character work. And Brother Keith is the man for being able to conduct this interview without laughing/somehow losing it. It would've taken 8 hours for me to make it through cuz we would've had to stop multiple times.

I do like how he still kept saying "Jeff" though and Matt probably got tired of correcting him lol.

Nero gotta win the tag title by himself and he only gets to keep 5% of his profits.

you listened to it?

























IT'S . . . BRILLIANT.

perfect theme. great promo. I gotta appreciate when anyone gets a hero's welcome and turns it around on the crowd. good stuff!

that never was

I don't care what anyone says, put Corgan on that shit and let Jimmy redo the drums and that's an incredible song.

I mean I was never their #1 fan or anything, but I just can't take Alex Jones Jr. seriously anymore.

Zeitgeist was fantastic and I haven't been able to go all in an SP album since then.

I've seen a little of his politics and steer clear. He's a reductionist nutjob IMO...but also a legit musical genius IMO.

That song was way more funky than Billy has any right being.

Start with SummerSlam and go either to Mania where we start fresh for a year or just keep it running til the PPV before next year's SummerSlam.

We seem to always start every new post with the PPV card and asking for predictions, may as well see whose got inside info and how (un)predictable WWE is in general.

As it is I'm unclear on how this will work exactly, if it will replace the current format or serve in addition to it, but either way it seems like something to try and see what sticks.

you get a point for ever match you guess right, keep a cumulative total of all PPVs over the course of the year

I forget most of the names of the guys that stood out to me, but that Gargano-Ciampa match was brutal. This has been even more fun than I expected.

Hopefully Gargano and Ciampa will see a boost as a result of that match. I hear WWE have already signed a bunch of the competitors as a result too.

>I forget most of the names of the guys that stood out to me,
>but that Gargano-Ciampa match was brutal. This has been even
>more fun than I expected.

Word. It is supreme. There's so much rasslin now that I can't watch stuff when it comes on. It is usually the weekend before I can catch up...even with some ffwding.

Unless they make it REALLY good. The Wednesday night stuff has the benefit of being on demand, but Smackdown is following 3-hour Raw and possibly a 3-hour PPV every other week. Way too much to ask viewers to keep tuning in live.

Welcome to a new tradition to OKP's collection of wrestling nerds, hereby referred to as OKPW.

Every PPV from SummerSlam thru WrestleMania 33 we will put our predictions on wax (Google docs, to be specific) and figure out who is the best among us at predicting winners and storyline direction, and just how predictable or unpredictable WWE is in general.

RULES:

1 - Like any traditional pick ‘em (see NFL), every PPV (starting at SummerSlam) you will pick a winner (or draw/no contest) for each match on the card. Matches that end in a no-contest, draw, double DQ, etc will count as a loss unless you specified Draw/NC. Matches where you do not set a prediction will automatically count as a wrong prediction.

2 - Matches added after the Thursday before the PPV will not be included in predictions. This is to prevent people who weren’t aware of late matches added or just didn’t find time to set predictions at the last minute.

3 - Miss a PPV or forgot to set your predictions? No need to worry! You can still win the prediction series with the help of your overall pick percentage. However, there is a minimum amount of events you must have predictions for in order to be eligible for the first place prize.

4- There will be up to 2 winners eligible for the grand prize, the person with the highest point total (most correct guesses) and the person with the best pick percentage (minimum 6 events of the 9 between now and WM predicted). The overall winner will be decided by a WrestleMania night tiebreaker, to be determined as we get closer to the Grand Daddy of the all. If the user with the most points also has the highest pick percentage there will be no need for the tie breaker.

5- The winner will receive a $25 gift card to WWE Shop. This gift card must be used to buy a t-shirt of one of your favorite Superstars for you, your child, a friend, etc. Proof of purchase is requested.


HOW TO PLAY:

1 - Go to the following Google Doc: http://tinyurl.com/hvdbotm
2 - You'll find two sheets thus far, the Leaderboard (leave that alone), and the prediction page for our first event which includes all of the confirmed matches thus far. I will update these as more are announced.
3 - Anytime between now and the start of the SummerSlam pre-show add your name and update your picks. Your picks are not official until the pre-show goes live, so feel free to update at any point until then. I've added dummy picks next to my name just as an example.

What will be the first match of the night? (or 3rd or whatever)
Will anyone from NXT debut?
Will the winner of the woman's match be by pin or submission?

Stuff like that

In other events things like: Who will be entrant #1? Will someone cash in the MITB?

Helps a lot in really predictable ppvs for sure

maybe have 3-5 bonus questions every event

1st match
will X interefere
who scores pinfall in tag/multiman
etc

Interesting PPV to have as the first one as I'm finding it really difficult to call actually - Will wait til next week's show before I place my bets.

Thanks again.

Sweet. I hope I don't screw around and forget. I'm gonna be outta town for the whole week before summerfest, but I think I'll remember.

Then you can say 'brother Jimmy! I knew you'd come''.

Welcome to a new tradition to OKP's collection of wrestling
>nerds, hereby referred to as OKPW.
>
>Every PPV from SummerSlam thru WrestleMania 33 we will put our
>predictions on wax (Google docs, to be specific) and figure
>out who is the best among us at predicting winners and
>storyline direction, and just how predictable or unpredictable
>WWE is in general.
>
>RULES:
>
>1 - Like any traditional pick ‘em (see NFL), every PPV
>(starting at SummerSlam) you will pick a winner (or draw/no
>contest) for each match on the card. Matches that end in a
>no-contest, draw, double DQ, etc will count as a loss unless
>you specified Draw/NC. Matches where you do not set a
>prediction will automatically count as a wrong prediction.
>
>2 - Matches added after the Thursday before the PPV will not
>be included in predictions. This is to prevent people who
>weren’t aware of late matches added or just didn’t find
>time to set predictions at the last minute.
>
>3 - Miss a PPV or forgot to set your predictions? No need to
>worry! You can still win the prediction series with the help
>of your overall pick percentage. However, there is a minimum
>amount of events you must have predictions for in order to be
>eligible for the first place prize.
>
>4- There will be up to 2 winners eligible for the grand prize,
>the person with the highest point total (most correct guesses)
>and the person with the best pick percentage (minimum 6 events
>of the 9 between now and WM predicted). The overall winner
>will be decided by a WrestleMania night tiebreaker, to be
>determined as we get closer to the Grand Daddy of the all. If
>the user with the most points also has the highest pick
>percentage there will be no need for the tie breaker.
>
>5- The winner will receive a $25 gift card to WWE Shop. This
>gift card must be used to buy a t-shirt of one of your
>favorite Superstars for you, your child, a friend, etc. Proof
>of purchase is requested.
>
>
>HOW TO PLAY:
>
>1 - Go to the following Google Doc:
>http://tinyurl.com/hvdbotm
>2 - You'll find two sheets thus far, the Leaderboard (leave
>that alone), and the prediction page for our first event which
>includes all of the confirmed matches thus far. I will update
>these as more are announced.
>3 - Anytime between now and the start of the SummerSlam
>pre-show add your name and update your picks. Your picks are
>not official until the pre-show goes live, so feel free to
>update at any point until then. I've added dummy picks next to
>my name just as an example.

that after getting pinned clean on back to back PPVs that Reigns isn't gonna beat Rusev for the US Title...






























PLEASE

I think they're gonna keep him (mostly) losing for the next few big matches before starting a return to glory at the Rumble or something.

Build the guy back up instead of cramming him down our throats.

I think we can all agree he has a long future as a main eventer but just got too much too soon when others deserved it more.

I think him holding the US title and giving it meaning like Cena did goes far.

But I guess it also depends on the Balor/Rollins match. I don't see them having 2 heel champs, I'm guessing we get a Rollins/Reigns or Rusev/Balor win

Having Rollins and Reigns each with titles keeps them from running into each other again for a while also.

I’ve been low on him for a long ass time but Dean put the nail in that one for me.

He’s not even interested in putting out a great match.

Besides being booked like Super Sayain Level 10 Broly, he’s really just there to collect a check and hasn’t actually contributed much. There’s no give back with him. I applaud his selfishness to the degree that he understands his value and makes Vince pay a premium for his services, but he contributes very little to the business in ways that elevate those around him and that level of selfishness I can't applaud because he's more or less sandbagging the guys he works with if that's his tact.

I’m betting they can cut bait on his ass and it would be a wash financially. I highly doubt he draws enough to warrant his paycheck.

I hope they give Orton a competitive match and job out Brock to help reinvigorate Orton, because he can actually be a valuable gate keeper at this point in his career that can actually elevate other wrestlers.

Also, Dean's response to Austin's challenge is telling. It echoed Vince's ep in the worst way. He was clearly trying not to "piss anyone off". I LOVE that he told Steve that he was offended by the "rest on my laurels" comment. I was mad that they cut it right after that though.

I do think it's time to let the Brock ship sail. The only point in him being built this way is for there to be a payoff. Evidently the WWE still doesn't feel anyone deserves that payoff yet, so then let's carry on. There's way more interesting guys in the company at this point.

I do think in the recent case of the dud Ambrose vs Brock match, I do think it is possible Brock had started talking to the UFC at that point and was going out of his way in protecting himself. It's not like he's had all boring duds since he came back - all of his Cena matches, his Punk match, the Mania 31 main event, and the more recent Taker matches were exceptional.

I think he's 50/50 for Cena matches. The SS match where he took Cena to the woodshed was dope at first but by the end I was just irritated that they would elevate Brock SO far above the heights of even the mighty Super Cena, but even then, Vince couldn't double down and gave Cena his win back. I give their first match and the RR three way good marks, with that three way being fantastic.

The aforementioned Mania match is fantastic and holds up extremely well against the top tier Mania main events for my money and I credit everyone involved.

Still, he doesn't take the loss in his three way matches, had a useless trio of matches against Triple Haitch (c) that gave Haitch two valuable wins that he didn't need (even if that last Mania match was solid) Regal and all the Taker stuff has ultimately proved useless to this point. Then we have the Big Show ass whoopin at RR, the Big Show ass whoopin on the network special, and the Sheamus ass whoopin on the network special.

Didn't he demolish Mark Henry too? All terribly ho-hum moments that did absolutely nothing for anyone involved when WWE's resident monsters could have shown themselves to stil be formidable even in defeat.

I'm admittedly bullish on him being a net negative but I think that Ambrose match was the culmination of everything I saw wrong with his current incarnation.

I think an Orton win not only reinvigorates Orton, but taking off some of Brock's shine can be VERY good for them with the caveat that Vince uses that loss to turn Brock even more brutal and violent and just plain angry and revitalize him in a way that makes his next loss that much more meaningful.... again, with proper storytelling.

Don't disagree that it would help Orton. It would help anybody. But Orton is a made man on the downside of a Hall of Fame career; who could Brock have a good program and match with that would make for a huge rub? Cesaro, Rollins, Owens, Ambrose, Reigns, and especially Bray all seem more compelling to me than Orton.

>Don't disagree that it would help Orton. It would help
>anybody. But Orton is a made man on the downside of a Hall of
>Fame career;

Agreed, so why not juice him up a bit (see what I did there) and maximize his remaining years by revitalizing The Viper? I'm thinking a few moves down the line. Of he's a badass babyface it will really mean something to, say, a guy like Baron Corbin down the road to beat him. Obviously they would need to tell a compelling story about how Orton is as dangerous as ever, blah blah blah, but keeping him hot is a great way to make some younger guys.

An Orton win could also help elevate SD and let's face it, that show needs every advantage it can get right now.

who could Brock have a good program and match
>with that would make for a huge rub? Cesaro, Rollins, Owens,
>Ambrose, Reigns, and especially Bray all seem more compelling
>to me than Orton.

I'd give that Brock rub to Owens or Cesaro. My logic this:

If Brock lost clean, how pissed off would he be? How big would that chip in his shoulder become? He would go ballistic and start murking guys left and right.

Let's face it: Kevin Owens is destined to be a money babyface. So Brock destroys Sami Zayn to such a horrific degree that Kevin Owens comes out to put a stop to it. I think the gaps in there are easy to fill.

I just think more can be done with an Orton win here than another Lesnar ass rape. You could tell the same stories with Brock going over and Orton on a rampage, but I think the respective rosters benefit more from strategic positioning here with Orton going over and good storytelling in the follow up.

>who could Brock have a good program and match
>>with that would make for a huge rub? Cesaro, Rollins, Owens,
>>Ambrose, Reigns, and especially Bray all seem more
>compelling
>>to me than Orton.
>
>I'd give that Brock rub to Owens or Cesaro. My logic this:
>
>If Brock lost clean, how pissed off would he be? How big would
>that chip in his shoulder become? He would go ballistic and
>start murking guys left and right.
>
>Let's face it: Kevin Owens is destined to be a money babyface.
>So Brock destroys Sami Zayn to such a horrific degree that
>Kevin Owens comes out to put a stop to it. I think the gaps in
>there are easy to fill.

Ever since Owens showed up I've been high on him to be the one to conquer the beast. I think he would be the perfect person to do that.

But I think if you give him the proper motivation he'd be just fine. A fair amount of his offense is pretty hard hitting and I think he'd be a perfectly convincing foe for Brock in the right circumstance.

IE, Brock smashing Zayn to smithereens, and KO spitting some shit where he admits that he turned on Zayn out of jealousy or whatever, did what he did and all that to get ahead because he's got his family or whatever but he can't let Brock get away with what he did.

Shit, have KO and Zayn begin to reconcile over something else and have Brock SMASH right after they reconcile. Whatever, I'm just spit balling, let's not get caught up in the specifics of a promo I just bullet pointed in five seconds, but I think there are very real and compelling strings to pull for that to work out well.

Make him Kraven the Hunter.

Shit,even if its something like Owens gets put in the Kimura,but rolls through to pin Brock while destroying his shoulder keeps Brock a monster but gives Owens a legit giant win
____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on

Or else they wouldn't have been in a rush to resign Heyman recently. I agree each Raw and PPV appearance is diminishing returns at this point though. Without the title or the Taker feud he has to evolve past Suplex City to keep it interesting and he won't do that. They'll still keep going to the well for as long as they can, particularly now that the roster is split.

I'd bet money that whatever edge he's giving them is minimal. I'm aware that they obviously think that he's worth the money they pay him, but I think they *think* he matters more than he actually does.

I need to see buy rates, network subs, ratings, etc that can be directly attributed to him that are significantly greater than shows without him, and not in the creative accounting ways they've been known to use to convince themselves that their perception is correct.

I.E, putting him in segments during a quarter hour that routinely draws well anyways and things of that nature.

I'm sure he's selling shirts and whatnot, but I need to see some solid evidence that he's paying significant dividends aside from buttering Vince's boner for brolic behemoths.

the original plan was to already have the SUPER BOSS BROCK schtick over with already. unfortunately for them they picked the wrong guy (Roman) and were unable to get him on the level they needed to prior to WM31.

their problem now is I believe they still want Roman to be that guy, so in the meantime they need Brock to fulfill his dates, squash whomever, and remain as dominant until they are ready to finally pull the trigger on Roman being the one to conquer the beast.

The general refusal to pivot.

For a company that prides itself on real time data and feedback from their fans both live and through social media, they sure seem to stay bullish when they decide on something regardless of the response. Getting Daniel Bryan over was pulling teeth despite him being as over as anyone in a decade. They get tunnel vision when they decide on a "Guy" and this is a massive, glaring example IMO.

I think accepting the "Cena" response is a mistake and they've finally, mercifully, thankfully backed off of Reigns for the time being.

Their plan failed but they stayed the course instead of pivoting, much like they did with BlueTista when he returned.

To me, if they're going to keep Brock, they need to pivot and get creative in how they use him. The Reigns thing won't work with Brock IMO. If they want to get Reigns over, they need an entirely new direction far away from Brock.

I think they could effectively use a Lesnar destruction of Sami Zayn to turn Kevin Owens face, conquer The Beast, and mint a new megastar.

Brock looks bad here. In general I'm fine with Brock's role as the big money prizefighter who comes in every once in a while to put asses in seats. I get why other wrestlers take issue with it, but he's a draw so he's earned it. With that said: once the match comes you gotta put on a show. It's Wrestlemania. There is no autopilot. There's no way that Dean match was as entertaining as it should have/could have been and if that's all because Brock was being a wet blanket there should have been some repercussions. You wanna fight 3-5 times a year? Fine. But make each time count.

the whole interview was just weird though. I kinda forget how chill a guy Dean is. He just can't handle Austin's intensity and I think Austin misinterprets that as a lack of passion.

He said he was offended at the "resting on his laurels" comment and after I got the impression he was trying to find words to explain without fucking up his push.

I think the older generation is badly out of touch with the current WWE political climate.

Guys like Austin, HBK, and Good Ol JR keep beating this drum of standing up to management and taking charge of your career and all that but WWE seems more tightly controlled on a political and legal front. That, coupled with the lack of any true competitor on their level makes for a fucking tightrope to walk. I think Austin takes for granted that Vince had a looming threat of WCW poaching his talent to help him be a little more amiable toward his stars.

they hate everything if it doesn't resemble RASSLIN circa 1989

They weren't on the same page the entire interview. Seemed like Austin wanted to poke and prod him and Dean just wanted to sit down and have a chat (not that I'm accusing him of bullshitting, the Brock answer was real and he doesn't mind talking about people slighting him). So at that moment I think Austin is trying to give him a kick in the ass to get to the next level and Dean either doesn't think he needed the kick in the ass or just wasn't expecting it. He tried to play it off with "I'm with you man" but I think he was caught off guard, and I think this was the big difference:


>I think the older generation is badly out of touch with the
>current WWE political climate

Yup. Idk that Dean was biting his tongue for the company, but the old-timers have no appreciation for how scripted today's product is. Austin and Rock could talk for hours off the top of their heads and Vince would let them. Same for Michaels and Aitch and most of that era. Only Cena has the freedom those guys had but that's also because he never strays too far from the script anyway. Everyone else seems too afraid of getting fired.

In defense of the old-timers: maybe guys SHOULD purposefully stray from the script. After all that was Punk's big moment and Vince reportedly liked Cesaro's shoot interview arter the draft because he finally took initiative. Vince is contradictory in that way: Wants everyone to stick to the script but if you go into business for yourself in JUST the right way he encourages it wholeheartedly.

>Austin and Rock could talk for hours off the top
>of their heads and Vince would let them.

Aitch did, sure. I can't count the number of 20 minute DX/Evolution/etc opening segments

But Austin and Rock were largely economical. Hell, most of the best talkers and best promos were less than 5 mins.

"Hard times, daddy"? 3:30
Most "classic" Ric Flair promos? 5 mins, tops
Austin 3:16? 2 minutes
Cream of the Crop? 2:30
"God? It's me, Billy"? 4 minute promo
Pipe Bomb? Just over 5.

because they have to put out so much content, but my larger point was about scripting. it's partially because things weren't as heavily scripted that the old-timers could achieve such great moments and why the current talent feels hamstrung.

Punk's pipe bomb was just a couple of years ago.

One thing that seems to be working with the post-split is that they vary the promo type more often - what got the Shield over (aside from their collective badassery) was that they did those pre-taped backstage promos, they did the interview segment with Cole, and then they did in-ring promos. Most guys don't get that type of variation.

Yes, I spelled "weak" correctly.

Holy shit was this a big drop off in quality.

The best thing between the two shows was Eva Marie's segment.

Scratch that: the Orton/Brock segment on Raw was dope. But after that?

Eva Marie.

Think about that.

Raw had my attention when Rollins was out calling out Balor and the Cesaro/Sheamas match. Other than that I just had it on in the background while I caught up on work stuff. I barely remember the Orton/Brock segment and although it was a decent match, I felt like the Rusev/Cesaro match did little to further either angle.

The average NXT episode is pretty good even if it's rarely "ca't miss", but the CWC has been a homerun for them and opens up some doors (kinda sucks the division isn't being given to smackdown, but i digress). I do think they'll use the usual post-Summerslam downtime to work out the kinks, but if they're truly trying to get people on board with a "PPV" every 2 weeks they don't have much leeway to mess around.

Going to TNA is not that smart

His name is dumb as shit

Giving ANOTHER "I WAS DONE SO WRONG!!!!" promo the first night on the show is so uninspired


Now, like Cody Rhodes, he is way too talented to have been let go. But that's a separate point. There's more inventive ways to stay relevant in wrestling in 2016 than this.

>Giving ANOTHER "I WAS DONE SO WRONG!!!!" promo the first night
>on the show is so uninspired
>
>
>Now, like Cody Rhodes, he is way too talented to have been let
>go. But that's a separate point. There's more inventive ways
>to stay relevant in wrestling in 2016 than this.

it's going to have some truth in each of these situations, but it's been done a million times before in more interesting ways.

>Going to TNA is not that smart


How many other options are there in the US with national contracts? ROH? Lucha Underground? I guess there's always Japan, but not everyone is built for that life...

>His name is dumb as shit

LOLOL...YES. He hit the "Imma keep it real...my name is Aron" line...and it is Aaron, but "Rex" don't have a damned thing to do with "keeping it real"
>
>Giving ANOTHER "I WAS DONE SO WRONG!!!!" promo the first night
>on the show is so uninspired
>
>
>Now, like Cody Rhodes, he is way too talented to have been let
>go. But that's a separate point. There's more inventive ways
>to stay relevant in wrestling in 2016 than this.


^^^Absolutely 100% correct. It's the cheesiest way to get introduction pop, and it's tired to death...could have gone a bunch of other directions and come off as less crybaby-ish.

>Going to TNA is not that smart


How many other options are there in the US with national contracts? ROH? Lucha Underground? I guess there's always Japan, but not everyone is built for that life...

>His name is dumb as shit

LOLOL...YES. He hit the "Imma keep it real...my name is Aron" line...and it is Aaron, but "Rex" don't have a damned thing to do with "keeping it real"
>
>Giving ANOTHER "I WAS DONE SO WRONG!!!!" promo the first night
>on the show is so uninspired
>
>
>Now, like Cody Rhodes, he is way too talented to have been let
>go. But that's a separate point. There's more inventive ways
>to stay relevant in wrestling in 2016 than this.


^^^Absolutely 100% correct. It's the cheesiest way to get introduction pop, and it's tired to death...could have gone a bunch of other directions and come off as less crybaby-ish.

Alexander-Ibushi was just wonderful. I thought Alexander had it there a few times, which going in I didn't really think was gonna be a possibility.

Also, the end of the episode, with the crowd chanting and Triple H coming out was pretty neat.

They can both go. It seems like the right guys are being inspired by the crazy pacing/choreography of that Riccochet-Ospreay match. See guys? We can have out cake and eat all the cake we want. We're in good hands.

Awful idea. Save it for Summerslam. Plus they said "Demon King" a thousand times before until no one cared. It sounds too much like Demon Kane, stop it.

giving RAW a view for the first time in weeks.

not impressed.

thought this shit was supposed to be new and improved. cameramen still laying into hyperactive shaky/zoom nob with no regard. so distracting.

His entrance at SS shoulda been epic, now, it will be lame

would be for him to not bring it out last night but then go all out at Summerslam.

>Awful idea. Save it for Summerslam. Plus they said "Demon
>King" a thousand times before until no one cared. It sounds
>too much like Demon Kane, stop it.

My guess is that they trust that not everyone watches nxt (like they should). So they wanted folks to see it. The Rollins promo got hacked by that lame ass fan. I don't feel bad if they beat the hell out of anyone who jumps the rail. American Idol and social media has made folks think they get to be a part of anything they want.

I want them to not say 'Demon King' again. It's brutal.

Something big is gonna have to come out of this match. Maybe Finn loses and this leads to Balor Club and maybe a grand double turn down the line. Maybe Reigns throws in with Rollins to start the inevitable Shield reunion story. Something. It's summerfest dammit!

Who didn't see the Titus/Young thing coming? Like all of it...the Backlund distraction, the Titus turn on Young, all of it...lazy storytelling.

Why do the "Demon King" thing now instead of at SummerSlam?

Why have Rusev fight CenaReigns tonight?

Is Nia Jax supposed to be a sexier Awesome Kong? (I like Jax, but give me some sort of personality or backstory)


This show for me was pretty lame, the worst since the split.

It should be your easiest show to write every month.

>It should be your easiest show to write every month.

They are in such a weird place with their tropes. They clearly know what they are, but they can't help themselves sometimes. That's how we get a raw main event where someone pins a champ clean in a non-title match one week before the same showdown is set to be a title match. This somehow advertises the title match more? I'm confused Maggle.

Really, they just can't regularly build to big matches on purpose anymore. The best ones are the ones that accidentally end up being something big because of the match itself or something that happened. Or the ones where the rasslin is so good that the tv leading up to the matches basically doesn't matter. They are leaning heavy on that since their roster is crazy good in-ring.

Ie: Bawse vs Charlotte is gonna be dope and it's mainly cuz they can and have gone in the ring with grand results before.

Side: bawse was looking crazy good yesterday. She was on my mind. It's great that they put the title on her and let her be her so far.

Reigns has acted like the heel this entire time but is being booked as the face. And yeah, there's no reason to give away the match the previous Monday... let alone have the guy defending his wife's honor lose. If I understand the stipulation correctly... she doesn't have honor anymore? This isn't Rusev-Ziggler bad, but it's pretty embarrassing.

They are leaning heavy on that since their roster is
>crazy good in-ring.

this is why we constantly look at the PPV cards and say "alright, this should be good but i don't care about half of the results."

>
>Ie: Bawse vs Charlotte is gonna be dope and it's mainly cuz
>they can and have gone in the ring with grand results before.

yup. they know how to tell a story in the ring so when they're given the time the audience is in good hands, but in between those matches creative just can't get any women's feud right. they could have just done a paint job on the NXT feuds of 2 years ago and it would've been better than this.

>
>Side: bawse was looking crazy good yesterday.

those pants...

Raw typically tops around 4 million ppl..the network has 1.5 million subscribers..so even if ALL of those subscribers watch NXT (they don't) that still leaves 2.5 million ppl that don't know about the demon character. If 10% (prolly too high of a number) of those viewers are intrigued enough about the Demon King to subscribe to the network for Summer Slam (250,000 new subscribers) it was worth it.

The mistake they made was having Rollins fight the demon...they should had Rollins high tail it out of there...

Rusev vs Reigns was a good match but killed SS interest unless they are going to attempt a double turn (Doubt it) at SS. Reigns is the heel in this feud..interrupts a wedding celebration...throws a man's wife into a cake..then jokes about wife being ugly..and beats husband defending wife's honor.

they told us about the demon king in such ridiculous ways that the mystique is nearly gone. then they blow the remaining mystique on a big entrance in corpus christi (no offense to the good people of cc, but cmon). i've never been totally sold on finn getting over, but there was a way to roll him out and this was not it.

>they told us about the demon king in such ridiculous ways
>that the mystique is nearly gone. then they blow the remaining
>mystique on a big entrance in corpus christi (no offense to
>the good people of cc, but cmon). i've never been totally sold
>on finn getting over, but there was a way to roll him out and
>this was not it.

It's too much tv for them to do well regularly. Too many tropes. Too much inefficiency. Too many situations where they feel the need to put people in the ring with someone in some way to sell a match (tag match teases, nontitle matches, obvious confrontation setups). Rasslin always has to sell the next show in the next town while giving the current town enough to not tick them off. With the cameras on more often than ever, it's tough to do without being repetitive to folks who watch everything.

Finn will be okay because folks will sell for him and he's capable of Indy-riffic rasslin goodness. And we all know what happens when wwe is with someone. They are gonna get wins. I'm not convinced it is happening now that the demon has come out, but I think Finn shows really well at summerfest even if he loses.

And if Balor Club happens, it's gonna be good even if it's not great because of who may be in it.

It's unfortunate that more folks who watch raw every week won't YouTube his Japan stuff or watch nxt. Wwe knows/assumes this so they 'babysit' folks. It hurts the product.

i'm not sure why that's such a difficult concept for stamford to understand. i remember hearing that they have 13 writers (most w/out a wrestling background) versus 3 or 4 during the attitude era. not trying to romanticize the past, but they got too many cooks in the kitchen now tasked to script what amounts to too much TV.

whenever vince finally gives up the dictatorship and/or kicks the bucket, one can only hope that Triple H, whom i believe *gets it*, goes back to foundational fundamentals that made pro rasslin.

But wouldn't that mean that they're BETTER suited to long-form stories?

Or are they all sketch writers?

Because it should stand to reason that they can break stories for each cycle and write clear character motivations.

I've heard nothing but terrible things about life as a writer in the WWE. Living on the road. Constant turnover. Lots of "hey, i got this great idea" with Vince responding "that's great! change it completely." I really wish there was a tell-all book on the creative process in WWE so I knew who to credit and who to blame, but when Vince has the final say it's easy and probably accurate to just point the finger at him.

Don't know if axes to grind, but ALOT of the former writers talk about Vince shooting down ideas, or rewriting the whole show hours b4 Raw, changing storylines b4 they had chance to develop. But them they all sum it up to say its Vince's house and his toys. So you gotta fall in line.

One long time writer I read has been saying it for years based on his "sources" and now guys Like Andrew Goldstein and Court Bauer in the early days of wrestling podcast boom (after Punk's pipebomb speech) pretty much confirmed that is what goes on.

My questions was about how much of the writing is done based on Vince's whims because what we see on Raw every week tends to ignore swells of fan support while staying the course with guys the fans tend to reject.

The answer was essentially "pretty much", though there was a little more to it.

The reason they didn't try to capitalize on Sandow's popularity and transition him to a more serious and prominent role was that "he wasn't seen that way backstage". Same with Bryan. "He was never seen as a top level guy back stage, he got the belt briefly and was never going to spend a long time in that spot".

They basically ignore fan reactions in favor of how they see certain guys and if they see a guy as a better choice, by god, that's who gets the push, regardless of how the people react to them.

I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the interview in front of me, but that's the gist. At this point it's well established IMO that 93% of what we see is a direct byproduct of Vince.

Personally that interview was both confirmation and revelation. The whole "he wasn't seen that way" thing was damning and spelled it out plainly.

there is an expectation for the top guys, and the shoes they need to fill a lot of people on the roster we'd love to see given the ball wouldn't be able to fill.

the GUY, the champ who will be on top for multiple years, he needs to be able to be a 24/7 company guy, ready to do the today show one morning, local radio promoting the night's show the next ,etc. there's a lot of responsibility outside of the ring for guys who are going to be given big pushes, and the fact is a lot of guys who are great workers and who we'd love to see in that spot, just don't fit that roll.

Daniel Bryan admitted this much and explained that he had zero ambition and laughs about getting such a low score on one of those tests he was given by the WWE that tells you as such. the hypothetical brass ring that Vince talks about, not only did Bryan not grab it (in the way Vince wants you to grab it, not necessarily just putting on great matches), he didn't even want to grab it.

but yeah, overall it's time for Vince to change his ways from booking, to writing the show, to who he decides is getting pushed and when to accept he was wrong about something and change things up. unfortunately that isn't going to happen until he leaves that role.

Sandow is a perfect example. He got white hot and had the perfect chance to transition and *see* how fans treated him in a more serious position. People didn't even want or need for him to be The Man, but he could be a significant contributor right today.

Ryback? Shit they got him hot twice and inexplicably did a complete about face each time.

Dolph? You've pointed out more than once that he was keeping a seat warm for Reigns at SS and that actually makes my point in droves. They refuse to pivot, choosing instead to press on with preconceived ideas. Who knows how hot Dolph could have gotten after that? He proved he could get people excited for him several times and each time, well... Vince did Vince. The Guy? Well... possibly. Probably not, but definitely in the mix enough to garner a MUCh more serious push than he's gotten until now, with a few stints with the strap here and there.

Cody? Talk about missed opportunity. The Guy? Probably not. Definitely someone many of us developed an affection for. I can't think of another wrestler who so consistently put their all into everything they were given to do so many times. Stardust cemented respect from so many people who flat didnt' like the gimmick, yet saw and appreciated the effort and commitment to pushing the character at 100% and there were several obvious directions to take that that would have elevated Cody annnnnd NOPE.

Bryan is a mixed bag. His book left me downright annoyed, but I think Vince, Hunter, and Steph's reluctance was a poor choice on their part.

I don't care so much that "my" or "our" guys didnt' get pushed to the moon so much as the fact that it's crystal clear that there's a definite glass ceiling for most guys who get the hook at the first sign of the slightest hiccup while other guys are either allowed to get mixed results (Reigns) or just plain show up and collect a check on many nights (Brock). It makes for a bad product.

Also, that's not even touching the mostly abysmal writing and storytelling that goes far beyond any individual wrestler. How do you fuck up The Demon? I already fucking hate it.

(and they were also a lot of fun)

But it happened to be before Hunter was allowed to push tag teams, if we believe that narrative.

If they held off the demon character ppl would be complaining, now they give one of the smarkest crowds on calendar the demon character..ppl are complaining.

I doubt they bring out the demon character all the time...only on special occasions like Summerslam and WrestleMania.

it's more how they did it. had they introduced the character and had Rollins scared shitless, either paralyzed in shock or run away in fear to set up the PPV, then it makes sense. to have him go toe to toe with him a week before the PPV doesn't help the story at all IMO. Kinda takes away the "what to expect" mystery factor.

they can rebound (doubt it) but that was a laughable effort

his bday is coming up in 2 weeks and he is having a John Cena bday party. While the wife and I were trying to figure out a good gift I got an email that WWE was going to be in the area. Is there a way to find out who is wrestling that day? The website has a featured wrestlers section but how reliable is that? Anyway this will be my first wrestling event since Wrestlemania XII. Should be fun. He is going to love it.

WWE gives info to the venue a couple minths agead of time and doesn't always bother to update them as things change. Even the commercials leading up to it can say the wrong champ's name. So I'd say just keep an eye on it. I think they'll pretty much be doing Raw and Smackdown tours from here on out though.

it has a list of some names. But I figured that would change due to injuries and what not. Is John Cena wrestling again? I heard he was injured. Hopefully he makes an appearance. The boy would go nuts.

going forward. That's been in the dirt sheets at least. Whether that means not being at many house shows or just not wrestling in the main event all the time I'm not sure.

that's typically pretty accurate. The above poster is right though, banking on the matches is a crapshoot.

I'll remember going to one when I was little and we were promised Sting vs Bret Hart and I hated Bret Hart anyway so didn't care. It was the first match after intermission - Bret ended up not showing up but Scott Hall came out instead and did his usual "Hey Yo" routine and it was MAGICAL and we got Sting vs Scott Hall. I have that memory burned into my brain man.

Man, they barely care about being PG these days.

>Man, they barely care about being PG these days.

Brock is the outlier. Aka he does whatever. And they play into it because...well...what else can they do when they've bowed down to him to keep him?

When Ziggla is out there like that, then we'll see about that pg. I'm totally okay with heel Ziggla with a heavy doin thangs if that's where's we're headed. May as well try the thing that they've been cussed at about for years.

to go with Dolph.

It just seems too natural. If they can steer more toward "I am that damn good" and away from "I steal the show", I think a #heelziggler run with a heater and/or small faction could be interesting.

I've genuinely enjoyed this little run with him and think he's actually shown more than anyone on that roster aside from American Alpha.

Which, by the way, I'm going to say again, on record, for the record:

Jason Jordan WILL get the Cena treatment at some point. How well it will work is anyone's guess, but that's going to happen. I just want that on record for a petty W down the road. lol.

>to go with Dolph.
>
>It just seems too natural. If they can steer more toward "I am
>that damn good" and away from "I steal the show", I think a
>#heelziggler run with a heater and/or small faction could be
>interesting.
>
>I've genuinely enjoyed this little run with him and think he's
>actually shown more than anyone on that roster aside from
>American Alpha.
>
>Which, by the way, I'm going to say again, on record, for the
>record:
>
>Jason Jordan WILL get the Cena treatment at some point. How
>well it will work is anyone's guess, but that's going to
>happen. I just want that on record for a petty W down the
>road. lol.

You ain't lyin. It's damn near a lock. Kid is money if he can even kinda sorta talk. HE could be Vince's second shot at a 'last' guy (I'm guessing we all agree that Vince is the one on this Reigns push).

He's as good as gone come October anyway. He wants out and they want him gone again. Long live MexAmerica.

from beating John Cena clean in 10 minutes in his surprise return, to alligning with his former enemies (zeb and swagger) in some weird mexamerica thing that represents a "face" idea but was presented as heel, to having inner turmoil with swagger, to having the angle completely dropped, to the League of Nations, to losing 3 on 1s to Roman, to LoN breaking up, to now.

talk about going from top 10 to not mentioned at all. stinks they couldnt get it right, his LU work proves he can be a great character if given some depth beyond "im mexican, perro"

and that's just an ass backwards way to hire people

"We need a Mexican star to better endear ourselves to the Latino market"

man Latino kids are just like white kids are just like black kids, they love cornball John Cena.

But how can you take this elite-level talent in Alberto Del Rio and leverage his heritage to do something creative? He comes from great lineage, is there something there with Orton? He was trained in Mexico, is there a "styles make fights" thing there with more traditional wrestler types like Cesaro? I mean I'm just spit balling here.

>talk about going from top 10 to not mentioned at all. stinks
>they couldnt get it right, his LU work proves he can be a
>great character if given some depth beyond "im mexican,
>perro"

I've seen that shit twice.

Yes, I've joined in, lol. That shit was fun.

They haven't even tried to position him in a way to get some real value from him.

For those who don't read the dirt sheets: ADR and Paige are dating and allegedly some in WWE think Del Rio is a bad influence on her and that's part of why they can't wait for his contract to expire. Keep in mind the dirt sheets are usually half right, but still... Del Rio has to be done.

Can't imagine what it could be but doesn't look good from the outside

>For those who don't read the dirt sheets: ADR and Paige are
>dating and allegedly some in WWE think Del Rio is a bad
>influence on her and that's part of why they can't wait for
>his contract to expire. Keep in mind the dirt sheets are
>usually half right, but still... Del Rio has to be done.

It sucks that the ADR thing basically hasn't worked since he stopped being Senor DiBiase.

He's kinda like Cody in terms of being a solid worker who couldn't seem to get/keep a good feud to 'make' himself for the long term in wwe.

There's no telling wassup with the whole adr/Paige thing. It's not crazy to believe that it's a shit show in some way but who really knows without being around with stuff like that?

I wonder what he ends up doing after wwe this time? Tna? Japan?

you can tell when he's bored and that's usually a death sentence. but on the other hand, Orton is bored half the time and has 12 titles. there's really no excuse for a talent like him languishing this much in 2 separate runs. they basically thought putting a world title on him a few times would get him over. they put almost no thought in his gimmicks.