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Topic subjectWrestling Post: Wrestlemania 32 and beyond....
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2529186
2529186, Wrestling Post: Wrestlemania 32 and beyond....
Posted by KCPlayer21, Sun Apr-03-16 05:56 PM
5 minutes before the show and no new post? I know folks think this card sucks but still, it's Wrestlemania....



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo
2529189, WHOA did not expect Zach Ryder to win the IC belt
Posted by jaywonder, Sun Apr-03-16 06:30 PM
Was hoping Ziggler or Sami Zayn to win though

http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/
2529196, vince hates letting new niggas win at mania more than he hates ryder
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 07:28 PM
2529264, RE: WHOA did not expect Zach Ryder to win the IC belt
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 12:51 AM
>Was hoping Ziggler or Sami Zayn to win though
>
>http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/

Sami and Kevin got crazy reception for everything they did. I loved it.

And when Sami hit that dive through the ladder then backdoored it with the super ddt, I was set for the rest of the night.

The show 'felt' great live. I was calling for a surprise-filled show and that's what it turned into. I had solid seats, so it helped. I was around the middle of the stadium height-wise looking from the left of the middle of the ramp.

The roster is supremely talented and they did their thing tonight. The ladies were pretty nervous to start but they settled into a good ass match. I wanted to see the bawse do it, but Ric going full Flair and cheating is about right.

Reigns? Fuck it...it's time to get it over with. The kid is solid but green. The booking issues have killed him beyond what he can do on his own to 'fix' it. That ain't on him. They need to get this run going to see if he 'grows into it' while this dope roster is around to help him out. And the booing was STRONG. Like...he couldn't land a punch without strong boos. But it's booing to boo at this point. And it's folks being programmed to keep it going. Objectively, the kid did good tonight. HHH is the shit nowadays so he had a great path. And oddly enough, his win got a positive pop before boos came back for a bit. Walking out, folks weren't broken up or anything. Maybe the biggest wannabe bookers weren't amped, but mostly? Folks were chillin.

Monday is gonna be fun.
2530117, Waste.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-06-16 09:51 AM
They only did it because they knew they'd got a relatively Smarky WM crowd and the mother of all Smark crowds at Raw.

Vince's latest data on the tastes of wrestling fans only goes up to 2013, so Ryder was the best he had.
2530151, Made sense to transition the belt to a heel w/o taking shine off of KO/Zayn
Posted by magilla vanilla, Wed Apr-06-16 11:20 AM
As well as not make said heel an insta-face for screwing with Owens.
2529191, Vince will never let a star from another org win their first WM match....
Posted by KCPlayer21, Sun Apr-03-16 06:56 PM

We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo
2529193, Fandango>>>>AJ
Posted by Ceej, Sun Apr-03-16 07:01 PM
2529192, New Day wins for best WM outfits ever.
Posted by Innocent Criminal, Sun Apr-03-16 07:01 PM
2529283, RE: New Day wins for best WM outfits ever.
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 07:50 AM
>

Those fools were crazy over. And there were a GANG of booty-os t-shirts and other new day getups. There were straight up 3 dudes with the tracks suits and one dude with a trombone. There also a dude in a full mj captain crunch jacket outfit who looked way too much like Shinsuke. He even had the haircut legit. He lacked the height..besides that? Awesome. He was also by himself...

And I can tell you that folks lost their whole shit when hbk, Austin, and Foley came out. Hbk looked so good (HUH) that it's a shame that he wasn't working.a match. I saw Foley at the wwn show the night before (this fool took a sock off of his foot when his fanny pack and pants came up blank...it was grand), so I had a really good idea of how he looked. His limp is scarily heavy. He came out for a Terry Funk tribute AFTER Sabu had shown up. Of course, a couple heels came out and tried to mess with them and took the beatdown. They loved it more than anyone there of course.

And Austin has clearly been up on those ipas but he still looks like he's done a lot of upper body workouts just in-case he agreed to do something. And those last couple stunners were heart-felt.
2529800, Saw him outside too...
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Apr-05-16 09:44 AM
... my buddy (dressed as Sasha) got a picture with him. We found out later that he's a legit superfan of Shinsuke, check out his twitter as "Chinsuke" Nakamura:

https://twitter.com/zawahana
2529194, New Day in Saiyan attire...lol
Posted by jaywonder, Sun Apr-03-16 07:02 PM


http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/
2529197, my god Austin's body is really fucked
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 07:29 PM
that stunner took like 5 mins for him to do.
2529207, This is why I LOL when folks want him to come back for one more match
Posted by Oak27, Sun Apr-03-16 07:52 PM
Shit, even the Sting/Taker match everyone clamores over would be painfully slow and embarrassing.
2529287, Shawn, by contrast, looked like he was still regularly working matches.
Posted by magilla vanilla, Mon Apr-04-16 08:18 AM
and Mick looked a lot better than he has for years.
2530118, Props to DDP for Mick, I think.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-06-16 09:54 AM
YRG saves another legend's spine.
2530143, If Shawn looked like Mick I'm convinced he'd still work like Shawn
Posted by Cold Truth, Wed Apr-06-16 10:59 AM
2529208, Lesnar/Ambrose was way too short. What the hell?
Posted by Tiger Woods, Sun Apr-03-16 07:59 PM
2529209, This women's match will get more time than Brock. We'll see how it goes.
Posted by Tiger Woods, Sun Apr-03-16 08:03 PM
2529308, RE: Lesnar/Ambrose was way too short. What the hell?
Posted by Af-1, Mon Apr-04-16 09:16 AM
Hugely disappointed in the Ambrose/Lesnar match. I think they missed out on something potentially epic - if not the Ambrose win then just something to feed that "You can't break me" angle. I'm happy he sorta came close and put up a respectable effort though but I'd say there was a missed opportunity there.
2530119, Bullshit.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-06-16 09:55 AM
One or two spots, but no gravity.

Did they hold back on this one to make the HIAC feel bigger?
2530133, I think so, but we coulda used more than kendo sticks and chairs
Posted by pretentious username, Wed Apr-06-16 10:17 AM
real lack of creativity.
2529210, Glad they're bringing the Women's championship back and with a better belt
Posted by jaywonder, Sun Apr-03-16 08:04 PM


http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/
2529212, Women with match of the night so far.
Posted by Innocent Criminal, Sun Apr-03-16 08:16 PM
2529309, I agree...
Posted by Af-1, Mon Apr-04-16 09:19 AM
The match was very good and all 3 came off as winners. Charlotte was the right winner at this time and maybe they'll build to a Sasha win from now.

I'm hoping the women get more time going forward - with Asuka and Bailey potentially coming up soon, the women's division is looking incredible.
2530123, Agree about Charlotte.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-06-16 09:57 AM
They need the crowd to be begging for a title change when it happens - she's doing a great job getting heat out there.

My dream next year for the Women's title is another PPV retention for Charlotte then a face Becky reign, Sasha turning and getting a proper MEGAHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL run and then Bayley coming through bringing balance to the force. Sasha and Bayley in some sort of stip match at WM33.
2529213, They better put the strap on Sasha on Raw tomorrow....
Posted by KCPlayer21, Sun Apr-03-16 08:27 PM
Every ending of every match tonight has been ass juice....



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo
2529262, i cant believe she got that elaborate ass entrance but no win.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 11:55 PM
2529215, wonder if shane's Js are PEs or customs.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 08:44 PM

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2016/4/3/11355922/wwe-wrestlemania-shane-mcmahon-undertaker-custom-jordans

i saw on twitter he got his face on a little jewel on the laces lmfao. he flexing super hard.
2529216, Customs. Sent to him by JB.
Posted by Innocent Criminal, Sun Apr-03-16 08:46 PM
https://twitter.com/shanemcmahon/status/716696259709370369
2529217, woo shit thats a long fuccking way down
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 09:05 PM
2529286, RE: woo shit thats a long fuccking way down
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 08:14 AM
>

Taker and Shane should've gone on last. I think folks would view that show very differently. That silly ass elbow bump was outrageous. I don't care if the table was hella gimmicked to make sure Shane didn't die. And the way the match was worked was a solid headfake...aka it was feasible that they could've just done a finish based on the steps. Then Shane took it to the shenanigans only to eat a spear through the cage.

To me the card was worked hella well by the rasslers. The bs that folks cared not about mostly got shoved into the pre-show. Jericho/Styles was a cool-off match. Think about that. Besides that and the Andre thing between hiac and the doomed Reigns match, there wasn't a lot of cool-off matches. There were some cool-off moments during matches, but that makes sense.

Rock 'wrestling' and Cena coming back pretty much doomed Reigns to get even less leeway. It's like they made a list of ways to make him look worse. Maybe they thought going for very log would tire folks out. I assumed that one of the skull dudes with HHH was Orton or Rollins. Aka I was shocked that nothing shocking happened during the main event. Steph eating a spear is not nothing but it was quite telegraphed. Maybe I think so cuz one of my homeboys was calling it for an hour before.

I'm likely over sharing, Maggle. But I'm trying to provide impressions while I'm still kinda in the moments. I hit a wwn Indy show Saturday night. Then Mania last night. Tonight I have raw and then a Jim Ross show as a night-cap. Then I'm taking my old ass home Tuesday.
2529218, THAT is why Shane McMahon was a better option for The Undertaker
Posted by Oak27, Sun Apr-03-16 09:08 PM
than any random midcarder or NXT call up
2529219, Well, hope there's more to this Shane/Vince storyline then...
Posted by Oak27, Sun Apr-03-16 09:10 PM
2529220, for real. you cant end it with shane going out like this
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 09:10 PM
2529221, Chant of the night: "Please don't Jump"
Posted by Innocent Criminal, Sun Apr-03-16 09:11 PM
2529237, The Jumbotron jump/bump looked way crazier but
Posted by ShinobiShaw, Sun Apr-03-16 10:05 PM
His margin of error was way smaller with the cage because the crowd is literally 5 feet away. I was like ummm maybe you should skip this.
2529312, i was EXTREMELY worried once i saw how close the table was
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-04-16 09:29 AM
i thought he was gonna undershoot it and catch the hard edge of the table.
2530087, RE: The Jumbotron jump/bump looked way crazier but
Posted by Af-1, Wed Apr-06-16 05:03 AM
I was looking at his face as he reached the top, looking down. The scary thing about it is that once he's at the top, there's nothing he can do about it. He has to jump. Imagine if you're there and you realise you can't do it - there's no climbing down.
2530115, When he crossed himself I was in full on Markout mode.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-06-16 09:47 AM
Shit was real to me at that point. I was shouting PLEASE DON'T DIE at my TV with the live crowd.
2529306, I thought they were saying "Please don't die" (?)
Posted by Af-1, Mon Apr-04-16 09:16 AM
2530116, I think they did both...
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-06-16 09:50 AM
... but Please Don't Die definitely happened.

Michael Cole pleading with Shane before he leaped was the only thing he did right all night. WOAT performance from Cole.
2529223, Shaq! Rocking the Shaqnosis! LOL
Posted by DJR, Sun Apr-03-16 09:22 PM
2529224, i wasnt looking when panda started so i thought Desiigner was in it
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 09:24 PM
2529225, So Vince was just handing out checks to everyone I see
Posted by jaywonder, Sun Apr-03-16 09:25 PM


http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/
2529226, How many Wrestlemanias have been held in Florida?
Posted by jaywonder, Sun Apr-03-16 09:35 PM


http://themichaeljacksonarchives.tumblr.com/
2529230, Orlando had 24 and Miami had 28. Think that's it.
Posted by Oak27, Sun Apr-03-16 09:45 PM
At this point you need to have a football stadium in a warm weather city or with a dome so options are limited. Also need to be able to handle all the shit that comes with Mania weekend. Although I'm surprised that since they took the gamble with NY they haven't tried their luck in a colder climate since. Orlando has become WWE's second home so expect them to get a Mania decade for now.
2530126, How many Full Sail fans does it take to derail a 'Mania?
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-06-16 09:59 AM
>At this point you need to have a football stadium in a warm
>weather city or with a dome so options are limited. Also need
>to be able to handle all the shit that comes with Mania
>weekend. Although I'm surprised that since they took the
>gamble with NY they haven't tried their luck in a colder
>climate since. Orlando has become WWE's second home so expect
>them to get a Mania decade for now.
2529232, impromptu match. i fucks w/ it.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 09:56 PM
2529233, will the Wyatt's ever prosper? jesus fucking christ.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 10:01 PM
2529235, Bray gets fucked again.....
Posted by KCPlayer21, Sun Apr-03-16 10:02 PM

We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo
2529234, Could Rock just put over Bray WITHOUT emasculating him as well?
Posted by Oak27, Sun Apr-03-16 10:02 PM
2529236, "you have it all...INCLUDING A BEER GUT AND SMALL DICK, PUSSY!"
Posted by Tiger Woods, Sun Apr-03-16 10:05 PM
2529241, Stephanie McMahon trying to distract me from this match with that outfit.
Posted by ShinobiShaw, Sun Apr-03-16 10:15 PM
and its working.
2529307, RE: Stephanie McMahon trying to distract me from this match with that outfit.
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 09:16 AM
>and its working.

She was looking right fo sho. She needs to eat a few booty-os but hey.
2529252, the biggest surprise of the night was the lack of surprises
Posted by Tiger Woods, Sun Apr-03-16 11:00 PM
Both Shane/Taker and Reigns/Hunter played out exactly like we all knew deep down they would, though we'd hoped for shenanigans for weeks. Vince gon' Vince.

I'm never a fan of sending the fans home dissatisfied; between the main event finish and Lesnar/Ambrose being only 10 minutes or so, I feel this show left a lot of people wanting more (despite a stellar women's match and several appearances from our favorite legends)

C+

Giving it anything more would be too generous. Mania 31 used the exact same template but pulled it off with real surprise and balance.

PS: every time Triple H main events a Wrestlemania his match blows
2529259, that shit was shockingly straightforward
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sun Apr-03-16 11:47 PM
i guess vince wanted his mania to be pristine. they better come with the heat tomorrow or i'll be tuning out until summerslam or rollins return. whichever comes first.
2529281, Trash.
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-04-16 07:36 AM
2529284, I've finally escaped the stadium
Posted by Y2Flound, Mon Apr-04-16 07:52 AM
You guys

That show

Was

Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong

Shit started at 5 PM central time and ended at 11...that's A LOT of wrestling
2529290, RE: I've finally escaped the stadium
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 08:32 AM
>You guys
>
>That show
>
>Was
>
>Loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong
>
>Shit started at 5 PM central time and ended at 11...that's A
>LOT of wrestling

Haha. I didn't even try to start leaving until after they played the video package. And I had to get a pic of the building almost empty. The last mania I saw in person was 25. For that one, I got to see the building almost totally empty cuz I had to go back to my seat to find the key to my ride. Yeah...I know. I suck. I got all the way to the jeep before I realized it. 'Beep beep' like a motherfucker. I was terrified, Maggle.

And yeah...that was a gang of rasslin. But I enjoyed it. I think I 'paced myself' better this time. I was so afraid of 'blowing up'/getting tired as hell at 7:30 and not being able to enjoy the back end of the show. And I somehow expected rando surprises so imagine how I felt when every jackass music hit AND they basically made a list of crazy finishes to throw us off the scent of Taker and Reigns winning without outside stuff. Surprise-a-mania, Maggle!
2529288, I find it funny that anyone is disappointed by Lesnar-Ambrose
Posted by cantball, Mon Apr-04-16 08:27 AM
If Ambroses' terrible offense looked effective against Brock it would have been a waste of Brock. Least he didn't do that stupid rope recovery thing
____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on
2529296, RE: I find it funny that anyone is disappointed by Lesnar-Ambrose
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 08:50 AM
>If Ambroses' terrible offense looked effective against Brock
>it would have been a waste of Brock. Least he didn't do that
>stupid rope recovery thing
>____________________
>
><================== Learn the name now before everyone gets
>dunked on

The match made a gang of sense. I thought they had a shot to do weird stuff with Brock but they are currently 'stuck' on the suplex city format. With that, Ambrose did what he could, which wasn't much against a crazy big man who spams suplexes until he get his special. And hell. Ambrose ate a release German suplex through a gang of chairs. Having him wrestle for 20 minutes after that would've been unrighteousness...even at surprise-a-mania. Maybe we wanted a little bit of the attitude era 'fighting all over the arena' thing. That's what I 'expected'. But no...hard-hitting suplex city match with props.

Also, that ladder match was supreme and hoard as hell to follow with something even remotely hardcore/spot-dependent. I'm biased cuz I straight up love Sami Zayn but all those dudes had a helluva showing. Hopefully some of them can fall out of the 50/50 vortex and have something actually happen. I think we get the Zayn/Owens feud that takes over shows and makes both guys a bunch of money.

Even hiac had a tough time until it became obvious that Shane was gonna actually do something silly. The increasing danger of elbows was good match layout. Shane didn't tuck his elbow until late in the fall. That was an actual holy shit situation.
2529297, I loved the IC Title match and it's not like Zack is more than a month
Posted by cantball, Mon Apr-04-16 08:58 AM
Shane is completely insane and as bad as that match was I think it'll be remembered for awhile for that spot. They really do need to be done with Taker though.


Hopefully we get a Sami Owen's program that carries to Summerslam. I have no idea how they can reasonably book Reigns without a heel turn. Even then there's no real person to out him in a feud with.
____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on
2529314, I don’t understand anyone who enjoyed any part of this.
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-04-16 09:33 AM
On any level.

Everything about it was trash from the very beginning.

Terrible story. Terrible execution. It did nothing but make Dean look weak from the very beginning of the program and all the match did was reinforce as much.

Nothing good came of it and nobody reaps any benefit from this of any kind.

Why should anyone be anything less than disappointed in a bad story that culminated in a bad match?
2529326, RE: I don’t understand anyone who enjoyed any part of this.
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 10:09 AM
>On any level.
>
>Everything about it was trash from the very beginning.
>
>Terrible story. Terrible execution. It did nothing but make
>Dean look weak from the very beginning of the program and all
>the match did was reinforce as much.
>
>Nothing good came of it and nobody reaps any benefit from this
>of any kind.
>
>Why should anyone be anything less than disappointed in a bad
>story that culminated in a bad match?

It's not even a day after. I think we'll have to see how these guys turn out.

I saw it live and watched it back just now. Going into it, I figured all Dean really had to do was put up a good fight. He did. He's fine as long he doesn't fall back into the 50/50 booking vortex after being treated like a true wild card crazy man for all of 2016 after almost winning the title after by God Rollins went down.

Brock is an snk boss. He's not gonna lose much. And if he does, there needs to be LOTS of damage. Dean's offense ain't shit..even with weapons. He basically couldn't win that match without Brock making a huge mistake.

Maybe I'm guilty of 'turning my brain off' and enjoying the physicality of the wrestling that wwe is putting on right now. Aka match finishes are mattering less to me as long as they make sense with the match. Aka I'm not down with the Cenawinslol.

And I'm optimistic about the talent on the roster and how they seem to be very aware of the talent who isn't wwe (yet). That alone excites me. I don't love all of the booking, but I don't need to be in love with Vince's calls to enjoy crazy spots, women on the come-up, and an adult-friendly level of physicality through much of the big shows.

Side: I went to an Indy show (wwn) Saturday and it was fun. But it was obviously indy..complete with Chris Hero having undergone a borderline Birdie-level fall into fat-ass territory. He can still work but damn he was big. And you better believe there was a gang of thigh slapping. It was a good show tho. Ibushi is a star forreal.

2529334, then they shouldve booked it like that
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-04-16 10:26 AM

>
>Brock is an snk boss. He's not gonna lose much. And if he
>does, there needs to be LOTS of damage. Dean's offense ain't
>shit..even with weapons. He basically couldn't win that match
>without Brock making a huge mistake.
>

i dont really care either way cause i missed that match but you can easily book a logical ambrose win.
2529342, I’m cool with Brock not losing. I need guys to compete though.
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-04-16 10:31 AM
Dean put up a fight, but needed the gimmick match to do it and that’s my beef with Brock in general and this program specifically.

Dean has an awful lot going for him and he’s one of few on the roster with serious mic skills. He can be a genuine star instead of the utility role player he’s been reduced to.

Far as Brock, he can be Rugal all day, but people need to at least be able get his ass in the red. Suplex city is trash to be honest. Brock needs to take an ass whooping so that guys look strong so that it really drives home the fact that Brock is basically God. If they sold how much damage he could withstand it would show how badass he really is and his opponents would look badass for being able to go toe to toe with a deity without kicking him in the nuts or double teaming him or using a weapon. It’s so absurdly easy and everyone wins but somehow Vince thinks it’s better to make everyone look like a child by comparison.

All it takes is a little storytelling to turn that into something compelling but then that’s my beef with the entire product, actually.

It’s horrendous. We got Hayes talking about how hard the writers work and yet the storytelling of this entire product is just plain trash.

At this point I only watch because it’s an institution that’s been a significant part of my life since I was around 9 years old. It’s just habit and brand loyalty at this point. I like a lot of characters but it looks and feels like Vince hates everyone but Reigns, Brock and his dumbass kids. We got Hayes talking about how hard the writers work and yet the storytelling of this entire product is terrible.

The entire company seems like nothing more than a McMahon vanity project at this point.
2529291, So WWE is now asking me to tune in every week to see...
Posted by Buck, Mon Apr-04-16 08:37 AM
Roman Reigns
Zack Ryder

(and Kalisto)

along with Charlotte and New Day.

But the mens's singles champs--especially the IC and big belt--the guys carrying the company, the guys driving those TV ratings, the guys putting asses in seats, the guys leading the way....

WWE has decided those guys should be Roman Reigns and Zack Ryder.
2529301, while everybody gets healthy, sure
Posted by magilla vanilla, Mon Apr-04-16 09:10 AM
Giving Ryder the IC belt was a good way to advance the Zayn/Owens feud without giving either guy the upper hand coming out of Mania (and those two don't need a belt to spit hot fire). It also resets the stakes for future multi-man ladder matches, since there actually is once again the possibility that anyone could win it. Also, maybe Cesaro returns and takes the belt tonight?

I don't think they could go through with having HHH hold the title till Summerslam, and Brock's still a special event guy with or without the belt.

Kalisto is helped out by the US belt, in that he'll actually defend it, but it's also possible Cena takes it back and reestablishes the Challenge.
2529302, RE: So WWE is now asking me to tune in every week to see...
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 09:11 AM
>Roman Reigns
>Zack Ryder
>
>(and Kalisto)
>
>along with Charlotte and New Day.
>
>But the mens's singles champs--especially the IC and big
>belt--the guys carrying the company, the guys driving those TV
>ratings, the guys putting asses in seats, the guys leading the
>way....
>
>WWE has decided those guys should be Roman Reigns and Zack
>Ryder.

Zayn, Owens, and anyone they work with are the reasons to watch for the future of the group. AJ styles is in cool-off matches! AJ Styles! New Day is a crazy over goofball act that is 15 minutes of 'free' cheers and solid rassling for wwe. Brock can casually show up and pick up business with whoever so there's that too. Ambrose is actually being established as a crazy wild card too.

Reigns is an experiment that they are somewhat obviously trying to debotch. He's not good enough to save bad shit so he has to be booked very well. It'll likely reach its apex when by God Rollins comes back. Until then, it's gonna be rough sledding unless a Russo-riffic swerve is coming. And it could be as guys come off the dl. They are obviously aware cuz the crowd was on him pretty hard before and during the match. I'm rewatching mania today. I'm at the end of new day vs lon right now. I assume the pop is gonna be silly loud on tv.

And yeah..the women have something good going. There's a bunch of them who can work. And motherfuckin Hugger is waiting in the wings to show up and start Magnum TA suplexing chicks and get lots of love.

Aka things have a chance to be fine. And meanwhile, the actual wrestling is over the top good in most spots.

I don't see the titles as being exclusively for the best folks on the show right now. They are using the titles to try to elevate some folks they like. And the best folks without titles get in feuds/stories that they are strong enough to carry without titles. It's dangerous to have a cat like Ambrose be more over than the champs, but it makes for ppvs that 'feel' stronger. And those non-title guys can be dropped into a title pic like 'that' and have it work. That's not a bad situation even though these raws and still tough to watch in full. We'll see.
2529303, so are they trying to make Reigns the new 'Cena'?
Posted by Dr Claw, Mon Apr-04-16 09:11 AM
because I don't think that he has reached "Cena" level yet
nor does his in-ring self kind of lend itself to being a "Cena"

2529347, Time will tell, but it seems that's what they're at least trying to do
Posted by Tiger Woods, Mon Apr-04-16 10:37 AM
The difference is that Cena was actually really popular when he won his first title. It's when he started being shoved down the fans' throats that he became so polarizing.
2529356, Heels arent even heels with the belt on Reigns
Posted by Ceej, Mon Apr-04-16 10:48 AM
That cant be "good for business"
2529731, Yeah, that's the difference to me
Posted by Dr Claw, Mon Apr-04-16 10:58 PM
>The difference is that Cena was actually really popular when
>he won his first title. It's when he started being shoved down
>the fans' throats that he became so polarizing.
2530129, They need to take The Rock route.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-06-16 10:10 AM
Only time will tell if he has "it" but he's reminding me of the "Rock Sucks" phase at the moment. He desperately needs that 98/99 Corporate Rock push to build himself up... that's the only way they can save him right now.

If they keep pushing him as a face, WM33 is going to get evacuated on a fucking bomb scare.
2529315, RE: Wrestling Post: Wrestlemania 32 - Jerryland
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 09:39 AM
>5 minutes before the show and no new post? I know folks
>think this card sucks but still, it's Wrestlemania....
>
>
>
>We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
>That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
>Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
>We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
>- Andy Mineo

It is possible that Jerryland was too big for tv. In some spots, I'm solidly clear that it was loud af in the building and it isn't coming across at the same level on the show in some spots as I watch it back. Stone cold came out and it was curtains in that building. Every old ass mofo up in there was crunk and you could feel it.

Steve looked better on tv too. Those upper body days took over some of the ipas on tv. Good for him. I'm glad that cat agreed to do that.

Make no mistake tho, that building was nice as hell. It felt like a nice arena that just happened to be 6 times bigger than the average basketball arena. Somehow, there was almost always a line at the MEN'S bathroom. Weird.
2529318, how loud were the reigns boos
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-04-16 09:56 AM
cause that was one of the most noticeable crowd muting's i've ever watched.

i've seen them do it on smackdown but the sound started muted. this time you could hear the mute knob turning.
2529350, RE: DUDE...folks were booing pretty hard..
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-04-16 10:40 AM
>cause that was one of the most noticeable crowd muting's i've
>ever watched.
>
>i've seen them do it on smackdown but the sound started muted.
>this time you could hear the mute knob turning.

It was by no means everyone, but the folks who were booing were putting some stank on it. Before and during the match, the kid couldn't even show up on a screen without a STRONG flow of boos. He caught hella boos on every offensive anything during the match too. Steph getting speared got cheers tho. He even had a little support when trying to get out of a submission.

HHH is a damn pro. He went all out for the dude. He even curled up on the ground for like 10 minutes after. Sure, he stayed until he got his cheers too but still.

And Reigns was solid for the match too. I'm interested in seeing how he 'wore' the boos on tv. At Jerryland, he seemed aware but resilient.

And oddly enough, there was some kind of cheer/pop that lasted for a bit when he won. It's almost like cheering him has become an act of protest. Then, some booing came back. I wonder if some audio was dropped in. Then, folks just kinda left.

It's mean to say, but a bunch of the folks I saw booing him the hardest looked like they weren't 'cool' in high school and they never got over it. I'm not the coolest cat ever but I'm a reasonably happy married adult with a 7-year old who has watched and loved rasslin for most of my life. And as I get older and lose stuff and people in my life, I just appreciate shit that I still have a lot. And when I get some new shit, I tend to treasure like it were a precious jewel. For instance, I'm in love with Spotify now that I actually let go of my iPod and use it. Some other time...

At this point, he's not even doing much to earn his boos. It's almost like the crowd wasn't booing him directly. It's like they were booing the idea that they couldn't complain him out of the spot he was in on the show like they feel like they had done before with Yesgoat and bootista. Aka folks seem sooo caught up in trying to 'book/hijack the show'. I'd been struggling with that for a while myself, but I guess I broke the spell and now I'm just enjoying what I enjoy and shrugging at the rest, which isn't much.

I saw some Reigns gear in Jerryland. And it wasn't JUST cute/hot chicks, kids, and douche cats.

I was also pretty happy to not see anyone wearing the shirt I wore: a yellow Ric Flair 'to be the man...' Shirt. I went loud to give myself a shot at 'finding myself' in the crowd.
2529396, I’ve long felt the Reigns hate was largely unwarranted.
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-04-16 01:05 PM
While I think a sizeable portion of his detractors are the guys you saw, I know a few who don’t fit that particular mold but still fit the IWC smark mold.

The Wade Kellers of the world have only fueled that fire IMO by nitpicking every last appearance and word and mannerism of Reigns. I’m an avid Torch listener and when I hear callers call or write in with Reigns comments, they often tend to parrot Wade’s critiques right down to the phrasing.

Reigns is definitely tone def in a lot of ways but everything he says and does is ridiculously amplified to the absolute worst possible conclusion in terms of motive and intent.

Between that and the general smugness of the, YEP, IWC, Reigns is at a fairly significant disadvantage when you add that to his own shortcomings and McMahon’s insistence on staying the course. Reign’s own shortcomings along with the early failures of WWE creative to present him properly certainly share a large portion of responsibility for this fiasco but there’s a significant disparity between the intensity of this ‘X Pac’ heat toward Reigns and a level that’s actually warranted.

Regardless, this is where we are and Vince is fucking Reigns up royally by refusing to turn him and capitalize on this hate. Fans can and should boo and cheer whoever they so choose, even if they’re petty losers.

I don’t buy any argument that rests on “but what choice does he have?” (oddly enough, an argument that is also spouted by Keller and Bruce Mitchell) because this roster is teaming with viable options. The biggest obstacle here is Vince’s shitty sensibilities and refusal to market to the moment where guys like KO would be over *like that* if Vince allowed it.

Overall I feel bad for Reigns for being placed in an unwinnable situation.
2529488, i could have sworn by reigns' facials...
Posted by roamr1, Mon Apr-04-16 06:33 PM
(pause) that he was going heel. i haven't watched the lead up much, but has he actively been acknowledging the boos? because he sure did at mania. he was straight egging them on at the end.

all in all, i'm rooting for the guy. the boos are an outcome of fans knowing too much nowadays and thinking they can control the outcome of things.
2529492, its 100% warranted. he's just so limited and the push is just
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-04-16 06:37 PM
relentless.

turn him heel and let him be a surly, cocky asskicking asshole. that's why people liked him in the first place. he showed up, said little, kicked ass, looked at the camera mean and everybody ate it up. put solid writing around that and its money.
2529500, he's limited for being *the* top guy...
Posted by roamr1, Mon Apr-04-16 06:42 PM
i agree w/ that for sure. just saying, they pushed the guy too fast. if they held him back to a top/mid-card guy to feud w/ the wyatt's, league of nations, etc he would be just as over as he was w/ the shield.
2529496, raw predictions?
Posted by roamr1, Mon Apr-04-16 06:38 PM
based on the lack of surprises last night, i don't think we see anything that hasn't already been speculated on.

-samoa joe debuts
-i can't imagine zack ryder is going to hold on to the belt. he could just be a transitional champ for either sz/ko. i expect ko to win the belt back tonight.
-new feud for reigns? who do they feed to him that would be an even bigger heel? could they do cena/reigns in a hated face vs hated face feud?
-aj/y2j has to keep going right? there's no way that was the blow off.
2529499, falconarrow says no on joe tonight. other people will tho.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-04-16 06:41 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/SquaredCircle/comments/4dch01/amaa_time_lets_talk_wrestling/
2529502, damn, the "others" are prob in reference to...
Posted by roamr1, Mon Apr-04-16 06:44 PM
the balor club guys. though, meltzer says they could debut the other two dudes first then balor in a couple weeks.
2529503, charlotte, sasha and the non-divas...
Posted by roamr1, Mon Apr-04-16 06:49 PM
i, like everyone, wanted to see sasha win last night but it wouldn't be a bad thing to have charlotte run the streak of the title all the way til summerslam, then have sasha win it then. (though that's a very long time and they prob don't have the patience to do that).

the camera guy didn't really get a good shot of sasha's eddie shimmy, too bad. she should have saved it for a big spot.


2529513, Announce team really pounding the "this is a different crowd" shit
Posted by Oak27, Mon Apr-04-16 07:06 PM
"They tend to boo the guys they normally cheer" trying to make sure the marks at home don't think Roman being booed out of the building later is any sign that people actually dislike him.
2530130, GABLE, GABLEGABLE, GABLEGABLE, GABLE GABLE GABLE
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-06-16 10:12 AM
"The crowd are chanting GET THE TABLES"

Fuck off, Maggle.
2529523, So, when does Seth Rollins get back again???
Posted by Selassie I God, Mon Apr-04-16 08:03 PM
Seriously, this group of champions SUCKS1!!

REIGNS
CALISTO
NEW GAY
ZACK RYDER

^^^THAT LIST IS PATHETIC!!

Thank goodness for Charlotte, and Sasha could be a better champ for my money, or at least as good.

Ring of Honor is looking better and better...
2529526, RE: So, when does Seth Rollins get back again???
Posted by murph71, Mon Apr-04-16 08:10 PM


Chill with that New Day hate....Them boys r good...AND entertaining....
2529715, RE: So, when does Seth Rollins get back again???
Posted by Selassie I God, Mon Apr-04-16 10:47 PM
>
>
>Chill with that New Day hate....Them boys r good...AND
>entertaining....


In my book, Coonery does not equal entertaining. But some like that, including Vince McMahon, so...
2529736, RE: So, when does Seth Rollins get back again???
Posted by murph71, Mon Apr-04-16 11:08 PM
>>
>>
>>Chill with that New Day hate....Them boys r good...AND
>>entertaining....
>
>
>In my book, Coonery does not equal entertaining. But some like
>that, including Vince McMahon, so...


U guys don't know what cooning really means....New Day wears unicorn tips on their heads, outsmart their opponents and has a dude that plays the trombone while his teammates deliver shit-eating grins and serve beat downs in the ring...

Ain't nothing "coonery" about that....lol...They silly as fuck....That about it...

Cooning = '90s era Godfather.....Slick the manager....Cryme Tyme.....THAT'S cooning....
2529739, RE: So, when does Seth Rollins get back again???
Posted by Selassie I God, Mon Apr-04-16 11:13 PM
Um....Booty-Os with artwork that resembles Reconstruction cartoons? C'mon...

https://shop.wwe.com/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-main/default/dwa019bf70/images/large/W11069.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/64AQ3BzhWKI/hqdefault.jpg
2529744, RE: So, when does Seth Rollins get back again???
Posted by murph71, Mon Apr-04-16 11:27 PM
>Um....Booty-Os with artwork that resembles Reconstruction
>cartoons? C'mon...


Dog...get a sense of humor...lol....New Day is too silly to be even put in that Cooning bracket...They dance like fools yet they talk like they all have PHD's and often times drop smart pop culture references that go beyond that "hood" shit...Again...we should all know true cooning when we see it....New Day come from that Fabulous Freebirds/Edge & Christian school...Silly with an eye wink....

When I think of wrestling cooning Sapphire comes to mind....
2529542, may right now according to falconarrow
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-04-16 08:47 PM
2529524, sunday was Exhibit A why they don't/can't charge $50 for a PPV anymore
Posted by Flash80, Mon Apr-04-16 08:04 PM
they really need to make reigns a singles heel if he's EVER gonna get over as a face. (see: john cena up until survivor series 2003)

also, time for a shakeup of the announcers. get rid of third-wheel saxton. get rid of jbl.. and pair cole with a true heel announcer. jbl's tweener shtick never was fresh.

now, back to the stunt show.


2529540, we're almost 2 hours in...what part was Shane responsible for???
Posted by Tiger Woods, Mon Apr-04-16 08:45 PM

If a Miz/Ryder match was Shane's idea, then Vince is right about Shane not being qualified
2529601, RE: we're almost 2 hours in...what part was Shane responsible for???
Posted by murph71, Mon Apr-04-16 10:11 PM
>
>If a Miz/Ryder match was Shane's idea, then Vince is right
>about Shane not being qualified


That 4 man match was FIRE.....
2529770, RE: we're almost 2 hours in...what part was Shane responsible for???
Posted by jimaveli, Tue Apr-05-16 02:53 AM
>
>If a Miz/Ryder match was Shane's idea, then Vince is right
>about Shane not being qualified

Yeah..Shane seemed really underplayed live after 'giving him the show'. They worked a nice set of debuts in there tonight but lawd did a chunk of the show feel like a drag/a normal as hell Raw. Uso vs Dudley basically got revolted against since we've seen that match and formula so many times.

Ryder and Miz was sneaky good. I figure woo x 3 will get to hang out on the title scene.

Tonight, folks typed really hard into their keyboards vocally about a being bored and about 'hating' Reigns. Even more priceless, Vince got all sorts of love when he came out. Cmon snarky smarks. Woods and Jericho had to give them shoot business over their antics. Reigns is starting his turn and I think it'll be fun.

Once Sami got tooken out (c) rza, the anticipation was on. And Cesaro got a mountain of love. It was great.

I'm waiting for shenanigans on AJ Styles. I figure bullet club is coming but can't call how they are gonna roll it out. But I'm in on what they were trying to say with that 4-way. We'll see if they meant it. And wink at those doomsday folks about AJ losing at mania. The sun came out and what do you know? The guy who has been reportedly the most over dude at house shows is staring at a title match after Jericho gave him the tryout trial thumbs up.

I wonder if Jericho is done for now. And I assume Brock is out for a bit fo sho. By God Rollins is on his way methinks.

I work a hugonomics shirt for nuthin! Nattie has been eating dem booty o's tho.





2529741, Thoughts on Reigns tonight? Because he seemed like a heel to me.
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-04-16 11:26 PM
Not overtly. He just seemed to do what he normally does with more awareness and arrogance.

Maybe I'm just holding out hope because a truly heel Reigns has dollar signs all over him IMO.
2529773, Pitting him against AJ is an intriguing move...
Posted by Af-1, Tue Apr-05-16 05:47 AM
You can't put a face that everyone boos against a face that everyone cheers and expect the face that everyone boos to get over as a result.
2529786, He was definitely heelish on Raw, it's one of two things
Posted by Oak27, Tue Apr-05-16 09:04 AM
1) they knew they would be fighting a losing battle having him come out and try and be the face in front of this crowd, so they let him acknowledge the boos and have him play sort of heel without doing anything that will hurt his babyface position in the long term. He didn't insult the crowd, attack a good guy, etc

2) they are moving towards the heel turn. AJ being his first challenger is intriguing, and you have to imagine one of them is turning at the PPV. And I'd bet that Bullet Club/Balor Club/Bullet Proof may have something to do with it.

Regardless, Roman gets an A from me tonight. THIS is the character he needs to be. An absolute bad ass who only needs to say a few sentences to get his point across, and other than that is just looking for who is gonna be next on the list.
2529787, agreed, looks like a slow transition to this:
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 09:09 AM
>Not overtly. He just seemed to do what he normally does with
>more awareness and arrogance.
2529880, He has more of a 'heel' look to me
Posted by Dr Claw, Tue Apr-05-16 12:18 PM
it's kind of like what they said about Jason Momoa on a podcast I listen to and how he should be playing Lobo or something in them DC movies.

Even his way of speaking is more "heelish". I don't think he can go full "Boy Scout" like Cena but ... I dunno, it's awkward
2530390, He needs the Diesel blueprint here.
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 10:28 AM
If his general perspective is "I don't care what you think about me..... unless you ride for me. Then I'll ride for you and it's us against the world and they'll be our footstool", it could serve him well.

If they just continue to play coy this will fall flat.
2529757, Enzo and Cass are fucking money
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-05-16 01:05 AM
Hopefully Vince lets them cook for awhile. I'm bullish on their marketability and viability on the main roster.

Enzo owns this gimmick in a way Road Dogg never could. RD was great in this lane but Enzo is 78.3% less corny. He still flirts with a little too much cheese but by and large he's good for a triple on his worst at bat.

They're an extremely polished act and it would be great to add another money promo in the tag division.

Hopefully this sets up a good program with the Dudleys and this isn't just more of Vince placating the internet marks the way he had the rest of this night.
2529778, I don't know if it was you who said it in a old thread
Posted by MaxPtah, Tue Apr-05-16 08:15 AM
*it probably was since you just brought up Road Dogg

but this was my first time seeing them and they've been raved about on here and just off that they remind me of an updated version of the New Age Outlaws. Who ever made that comparison on here hit the nail right on the head. I'm gonna check out some of their in-ring action later on to see how they are there. But I'm sold on them as far as an entertainment factor.
2529825, they've greatly improved in the ring
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 10:45 AM
check out their match with the Revival on roadblock. they mostly follow the same match formula but that's fine by me for now. their storytelling works and they can carve out a really nice role for themselves as entertaining underdog faces. also I absolutely LOVE Enzo's DDT.
2530142, Be prepared to see Cass throw Enzo at people. A lot. lol.
Posted by Cold Truth, Wed Apr-06-16 10:58 AM
Their offense consists largely of them coming up with a handful of ways to launch Enzo to the air in the direction of their opponents.

Enzo looks pretty credible as a cruiserweight. Cass isn't lighting any fires but I think he already shows more in the ring than, say, Diesel did.

Frankly I think they could become an act that could lead to a solid stable and main event Raw here and there. Their popularity could easily rival that of The New Day by the time we hit Payback and I’m PRAYING we get a traditional Survivor Series this year with New Day and E&C teaming up because that shit would be flames.
2529799, thoughts on the weekend
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 09:44 AM
Happened to be on vacation so I caught this all at random times.

TakeOver: Dallas was predictably great. All the title matches more than delivered. I'll be rewatching Nakamura/Zayn again this week. Just incredible. It's tough to say which Takeover is best, and it feels like they're always topping themselves, but this might take the cake.

WM: Some bizarre decisions but they pleasantly surprised me in spots. Way too long though. They make it easy for Takeover to look better when Wrestlemania ends in June. Ladder match, women's match, and HIAC were the highlights. I'm more of a Corbin fan than most, so I like his Andre win. Most of this was pretty predictable. The parts that weren't were a little bizarre. I agree with Selassie that the list of champs looks a bit weak coming out of this. Main issue is the constant need to make everyone look like shit next to Attitude Era dudes. I'm no Rowan fan but cmon, no one needs that burial. LON and New Day should be able to conquer some old dudes.

Raw: Lol, I knew they'd keep Shane involved but to just say "Hey good effort here are the keys!" is as stupid as everything else in this story. Oh well. Reigns as half-heel was better and the debuts and 4-way match delivered. Had a feeling there'd be a secondary title change just to show folks anything can happen at Raw. 50/50 booking still sucks, but debuts galore!!!
2529802, oh, and who do they think is popping for this Dr.Phil appearance? n/m
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 09:54 AM
2529828, Sounds like Code Mode booked that
Posted by magilla vanilla, Tue Apr-05-16 10:47 AM
2529829, Cody may be the only wrestling fan into it
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 10:49 AM
he sucks.
2529834, Jesus not here too
Posted by Ceej, Tue Apr-05-16 11:07 AM
2529836, he brought it up.
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 11:14 AM
2529886, I'm missing something....?
Posted by Oak27, Tue Apr-05-16 12:28 PM
2529889, inside joke.
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 12:36 PM
>
2529893, "joke" is a stretch
Posted by Ceej, Tue Apr-05-16 12:45 PM
2529903, is this a bit?
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 01:01 PM
2529835, Thoughts from my weekend in Dallas
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 11:11 AM
Everyone has lots of thoughts, but I want to unpack what being there for the weekend made me feel:

Friday night NXT was the best wrestling show I've ever been to. I think one of the biggest takeaways WWE should have is that small arenas are better than giant ones (except for the money which is the ultimate factor). Enough has been said about how good the card is so no real need to get into it. I think the biggest issue was that there was no popcorn match, the crowd was too hot all night that by the main event we were just tired. It probably got the least buzz from the crowd just because we had been on fire for 2 hours. It really made me appreciate those matches that just get thrown in.

As for Mania, I have a ton of thoughts and don't want to write a 10 page post, but they boil down to these few things:

- 6 Hours is way too fucking long, you don't need a 1 hour pre show and 5 hour PPV. It could have been NXT, and 6 hours would have been too long. I don't want to do anything for 6 hours, all you cause there is people to lose interest by the end. Add this to the fact that Cowboys Stadium is 70-90 minutes in traffic from the city and it's just a long fucking day. At NXT we chanted Fight Forever, at Mania I was afraid they might.

- The biggest complaint all year about WWE is that nothing matters, everything's 50/50 and nothing has any value. Well this was the culmination of a year of that attitude, I mean look some of the results:

- Zack Ryder won the IC belt for no reason other than they wanted to transition it to a heel without having KO lose to them and Ryder let them get a fun Mania moment before losing it a day later

- New Day lost for no other reason than LON never really gets to win. Then they beat them the next night just to make sure we know they are better

- AJ Styles? Sorry, no indy darling is allowed to win at his Mania debut, who cares if it makes no sense for you to lose. Here is the #1 contender spot just to confuse everyone more.

- Charlotte retained (which I'm fine with) mostly because they didn't bother to build Sasha up to the level that the fans did so they had to delay her moment despite her being the one on every fucking banner throughout Dallas

- Hey guys look at this young guy we want to push, he's going to win the battle royal, but only after we sneak him in without an entrance and just hope everyone knows who he is. Don't care? It doesn't matter! But SHAQ IS HERE WHAT MORE DO YOU NEED?

- Shane lost, and not only did he lose but Vince literally came out the next day and said "No more lockbox, you'll never hear about this again" Oh, and you can run the show tonight anyway. They literally presented this feud as Shane is here to save wrestling from being bad....LOL no he isn't, wrestling will stay bad! Also by the way, this match sucked ass, big spot or not, the match was boring as piss until that moment and the buildup to it was so obvious that it just felt like this desperate please cheer for this moment

Nothing mattered all year, or in the buildup, so of course none of the results really matter

- Roman won, we knew he was gonna, I'm not mad because it had to happen

This will eventually become the most forgettable wrestlemania of all time, not the worst, just the one where nothing at all mattered. You could have skipped this WM entirely and nothing in the world of WWE would have been any different other than the new (deserved) women's belt.

The giant difference in how every match in NXT meant everything vs how nothing that happened at Mania will have any effect on the next month, let alone the future, it's just like...what was the point of any of this?
2529838, Also I'm always surprised by how many people don't watch NXT
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 11:17 AM
Like wrestling fans who watch every week, but wont invest 1 more hour into NXT even though everyone says it's way better.

At Mania my entire section had no idea who Corbin was and kept saying I guess he is an NXT guy. (But they jumped on the NXT chants anyway)

Saw the post a few up about never seeing Enzo and Cass before. Why are people still not checking it out?
2529851, I don't have the WWE network so all I see are highlights on Youtube
Posted by MaxPtah, Tue Apr-05-16 11:40 AM
I've seen people talk about them, but never remembered to check them out. Now that I know about them I'm going through a lot to get caught up. They are definitely money
2529853, Were you blown away how over Enzo and Cass were
Posted by Ceej, Tue Apr-05-16 11:41 AM
Having never seen them before?

I cant imagine what I would have thought if I saw that.
2529856, seriously I was lol
Posted by MaxPtah, Tue Apr-05-16 11:44 AM
The whole arena knew that schtick and I was left more than impressed. I usually like to be in on stuff like that (a la New Age Outlaws entrance), but this seemed like it was on a whole 'nother level. It was great.
2529857, I don't get why WWE doesn't cater to people who don't watch NXT
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 11:44 AM
You get these guys debuting with 0 hype surrounding them and then don't understand why nobody cares.

If I've never seen NXT, what do I care when Corbin wins the battle royal, or Apollo Crews debuts on Raw?

It's just weird to me that they don't get some vignettes and interviews first like how people used to debut. They did it with Bo Dallas and Adam Rose but then not with these guys they have actual high hopes for.
2529858, By contrast, you had the Shield
Posted by magilla vanilla, Tue Apr-05-16 11:48 AM
who just showed up, beat the hell out of people and we all caught up.
2529862, The shield is an exception I think
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 11:50 AM
The Wyatts got lots of segments before their debut and it went well.

I think the Shield was impossible to ignore, I also think they are much naturally going to get over compared to someone like Corbin.

I think Apollo will be fine too, but I think Corbin is going to suffer from not standing out enough and not having any hype to fans who don't know him. I'm worried about Zayn too, he is super over in NXT, but I don't know that a normal Raw crowd will go as hard for him.

He won't quite fall to the Breeze immediate dud level, but won't be the Shield either. Though ultimately it is about how committed WWE is to you, and I think they are committed to Corbin since he is a legit WWE trained talent, not someone who came through the indys first.
2529965, RE: Sami is a lock...
Posted by jimaveli, Tue Apr-05-16 03:05 PM
I'm a 'Sami and Bayley are the best faces on the roster' person. They are actually good characters and people who anyone can root for.

Sami is home free. Aka they will not fuck up the good match God himself. Sami is easy because there's no shenanigans to make him what he is. His spots are money. His comebacks have a gang of fire. His finisher can work on absolutely anyone. Folks buy his near-falls. All of his offense has the early-2000s reversal-fest flexibility that everyone digs. And he's not a super hero. He can make a mistake and lose a match without looking like a chump. And when he wins a big one, he gets the 'it's still real to me damnit' reaction from his biggest fans.

Even better...he comes with a ex-friend blood feud with Owens, who is already well in his way to being made. Folks will always buy into legit forever-connected 'I hate you and I will Mario Kart you every time you're about to win a big one' battles.

I'm sad for Breeze even though I get why it doesn't work. Mainly, he basically never wins or talks. Folks have been told to not care and they listened too quick.

Wyatts as faces can gonna work if they are used like the Shield. Aka they need to be the hillbillies of justice. When bad guys are getting too happy about what they are doing, here they are. Bray being a comeuppance-giving face puts him more on a Taker trajectory than he was on before. Imagine them shutting Miz down a few months from now. No one on the roster earns asswhoopings better than Miz.

Apollo is gonna have to get a story where he does some struggling. Otherwise he's gonna be a stronger Neville. Aka a good throw him in a match that never matters guy.

Corbin could temporarily join the Wyatts once they have some time to rehab. And of course, the money will be in the sellout moment.

>The Wyatts got lots of segments before their debut and it
>went well.
>
>I think the Shield was impossible to ignore, I also think they
>are much naturally going to get over compared to someone like
>Corbin.
>
>I think Apollo will be fine too, but I think Corbin is going
>to suffer from not standing out enough and not having any hype
>to fans who don't know him. I'm worried about Zayn too, he is
>super over in NXT, but I don't know that a normal Raw crowd
>will go as hard for him.
>
>He won't quite fall to the Breeze immediate dud level, but
>won't be the Shield either. Though ultimately it is about how
>committed WWE is to you, and I think they are committed to
>Corbin since he is a legit WWE trained talent, not someone who
>came through the indys first.
2529979, RE: Sami is a lock...
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 03:30 PM
I want to believe you, but I'm fearful.

I can see Sami going a few routes, and the one I see Vince most likely to push him in is the babyface who just never gets the big win. Best case scenario maybe in years he finally gets to overcome the odds and win the title before quickly dropping it like they did with Ziggler. This is exactly what they did with him in NXT, but that's a different audience where someone can become the top guy just by doing that.

Sometimes these faces that put on such good matches become nothing more than guys to give the rub to the heel. I feel like his career is most likely to look like Daniel Bryan's in terms of misuse and underrating, the question will be if the fans can eventually propel him to the next level and force WWE's hands like they did with Bryan, and even then I never felt like Bryan really got their long term buy in.
2530106, Difference is that Sami's a natural face, and Dolph's a heel who got over
Posted by magilla vanilla, Wed Apr-06-16 08:40 AM
Sami's the last of the true white-meat babyfaces. They made a big point of that during his build in NXT (see refusing to use the belt in his title win), and I don't think you'll see him become smarmy dickhead babyface #503 like Ziggler and Jericho (and many others), who are more natural heels forced by circumstance or crowd reaction to turn.
2529860, It would've been cool to get that with Corbin and Enzo and Cass
Posted by MaxPtah, Tue Apr-05-16 11:50 AM
but I guess they want the $$$$$$$$$$ more by having you just get the network to see them first. When they came out I almost changed the channel until one of my friends text me saying they're gonna be the most over tag team to come along in a long time. I was thinking Enzo was gonna be a Scotty 2 Hotty clone and Cass was gonna be a Test clone. I was wrong and glad I was wrong.
2529981, interesting. I think it was effective for Enzo & Cass
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 03:35 PM
>but I guess they want the $$$$$$$$$$ more by having you just
>get the network to see them first. When they came out I almost
>changed the channel until one of my friends text me saying
>they're gonna be the most over tag team to come along in a
>long time. I was thinking Enzo was gonna be a Scotty 2 Hotty
>clone and Cass was gonna be a Test clone. I was wrong and
>glad I was wrong.


It was a smarky crowd, so there's that, but they know how to get a crowd on their side so I was fine with a surprise there. Even if people are confused for a few weeks they will get over. I like Crews and Corbin, but if it's gonna work for them then they need some help in the packaging. Crews' debut got completely lost in the post-mania mix.
2529983, Crews will be fine if they push him
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 03:47 PM
He is giant athletic and charismatic

His debut was a little underwhelming because of it being on such a packed card, but week in and out he will win more fans by just being cool to watch. Now if they put him in the 50/50 club he'll be in trouble, but he is a guy they should be pushing on long win streaks for a while, then let him have a good feud with a big heel where they trade some wins but he wins in the end, finally a IC level title shot and he can be made.

Of course none of that will happen probably.

Corbin needs help because he just isn't that interesting overall, I know he has his fans and I don't hate him, but he isn't going to just get himself super over by coming out and beating guys up the way other monsters can.
2529987, I think Crews will suffer more with their interview/promo formats
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 04:05 PM
Now if they put him in the 50/50
>club he'll be in trouble,

You're right that his athleticism will get him over with many, but it's not self-sustaining. He's gotta find some mic skills or those squash matches won't mean much. The usual script for backstage stuff will have to be thrown out though and I don't see that happening. I don't know what the solution is, but I just think he'll get lost in the mix because of that.


>Corbin needs help because he just isn't that interesting
>overall, I know he has his fans and I don't hate him, but he
>isn't going to just get himself super over by coming out and
>beating guys up the way other monsters can.

I think he's tweaked his persona just enough to sell it, but he could've greatly benefited from a few weeks of debut packages. I count myself as a fan now, but it took a LONG time to get on board and not everyone has. Now he has no head start.
2530107, Enzo and Cass don't really need a vignette. Just let Enzo talk.
Posted by magilla vanilla, Wed Apr-06-16 08:42 AM
And let them do their Wolverine-and-Colossus offense.
2530140, Wolverine and Colossus is the perfect description.
Posted by Cold Truth, Wed Apr-06-16 10:51 AM
Their offense plays to both of their strengths in a big way. I’ve never seen a wrestler so consistently used as a human javelin.

My fear is that all Vince sees is the Colossus half of this team and they don’t make it six months before Vince tries to turn Cass into his next singles toy.
2530153, I fear the same:
Posted by Tiger Woods, Wed Apr-06-16 11:40 AM

>My fear is that all Vince sees is the Colossus half of this
>team and they don’t make it six months before Vince tries to
>turn Cass into his next singles toy.
>

hopefully they try to get them both to the right place, like Shawn and Diesel.
2530060, This is basically where I am
Posted by Selassie I God, Tue Apr-05-16 10:44 PM
>You get these guys debuting with 0 hype surrounding them and
>then don't understand why nobody cares.
>
>If I've never seen NXT, what do I care when Corbin wins the
>battle royal, or Apollo Crews debuts on Raw?

I don't have WWE Network (sorry, but my cable bill is high enough...not adding to it for that) and when Corbin won, I was like "who's this big mofo?" Now watching him on RAW the next day, I am impressed with him and Apollo Crews, but isn't the easiest way to get people over is to let fans know who they are and develop some sort of character/backstory?? I guess this is their way to get people to buy the network, but instead of Smackdown being the RAW REWIND, why not use it to introduce us to new talent from NXT?

2529839, And Tatanka doesn't get an entrance???
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 11:17 AM

> - Hey guys look at this young guy we want to push, he's
>going to win the battle royal, but only after we sneak him in
>without an entrance and just hope everyone knows who he is.
>Don't care? It doesn't matter! But SHAQ IS HERE WHAT MORE DO
>YOU NEED?
2529840, His appearance was just so bizarre
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 11:18 AM
Why was he there? Why did they not intro him to at least get a pop? Like what happened there?
2529842, the point of the old-timer is to get boos on the guy who eliminates him
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 11:25 AM
but he's gotta get the entrance pop first. a 72 hour PPV and they can't even give Tatanka that? Cut one Rock goosebump touching and you get a Tatanka entrance.
2529844, Do the writers of Rocks script type every line twice?
Posted by Ceej, Tue Apr-05-16 11:27 AM
maybe if he just said each line once there woulda been a little more time.
2529845, Rock's music hit at 9:44 Central
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 11:33 AM
I was like, ok so this event ends in 16 minutes and the most long winded man in history is on the way to the ring and we still have a main event?

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

I made one of his Wrestlemania Rock babies when he shot the first flame and it was born before the show ended.
2529846, a rock baby is male right?
Posted by Ceej, Tue Apr-05-16 11:35 AM
2529848, Ya, Rockett is a female
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 11:36 AM
2529852, He was very concerned a baby girl might be called a rock baby
Posted by Ceej, Tue Apr-05-16 11:40 AM
2529871, They filled out the birth certificates on the way out
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-05-16 12:00 PM
.
2530169, RE: MANE!
Posted by jimaveli, Wed Apr-06-16 12:35 PM
I looked at my watch and wondered wth was going ala Ron Isley. We noticed Rock's boots immediately but couldn't even pretend to know who would interrupt him. We didn't see the Cena thing coming AT ALL either.

Some of those Cowboys cheerleaders had certainly been eating their booty-o's! Whoooo!

I kinda sorta knew the show was gonna go past 10 well before I got there. Once I read the rumor that wwe was telling ppv company that 4 hours wasn't enough, I figured 4.5 was enough.

Still...once it become clear that we were getting a full-on 30-minute main event with a straight up heel vs a character heel who is real-life responsible for most of what rasslin nerds like most about wwe, I realized that I still didn't pace myself properly. I was in the building by 4 or so. I had a great chance to look at random chicks, take in the huge stadium, and freak out about how awesome the set looked before the preshow stuff started. But 4:30 pm to 11 pm is a loooong time to be in any building watching rasslin.

It also made me question my decisions to watch the wwn show the night before and sign myself up for the raw after. Live and learn. And I still had a blast overall. It was my first traveling mania. I'll be happy as hell when they come back to Houston. I'm gonna aim to have even better seats to everything I go to when that happens. And I won't ever miss them nxt show again. A chunk of raw was great, but shiiiiid...nxt is wrestling made directly for me.

>I was like, ok so this event ends in 16 minutes and the most
>long winded man in history is on the way to the ring and we
>still have a main event?
>
>FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
>
>I made one of his Wrestlemania Rock babies when he shot the
>first flame and it was born before the show ended.
2530170, WWE logic: "summerslam was 4, so Mania has to be 5 hours"
Posted by pretentious username, Wed Apr-06-16 12:42 PM
They probably planned for 4.5, but still, this is likely what happened. It's weird they don't know pacing yet. They've had a million shows to get this right.
2529891, i read he missed his cue...
Posted by roamr1, Tue Apr-05-16 12:39 PM
he was late to gorilla so they just had him show up w/ everyone else.
2529894, But he started in the ring
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-05-16 12:46 PM
His cue would have been after that. They were able to send him to the ring before his cue so he was right there.
2531097, And Michael Cole can't even call his Tomahawk Chops properly?
Posted by TheAlbionist, Mon Apr-11-16 06:08 AM
Such a struggle appearance. Tatanka was always one of my favourites as a kid.

Yiyiyiyiyiyiyi yi yi yi yi yi yi yi.
2529872, might they have finally gotten Roman Reigns right last night?
Posted by Tiger Woods, Tue Apr-05-16 12:02 PM
"fuck you all I'm the champion" Reigns is the most practical use of this guy right? He can't talk or wrestle very well but he looks cool, so this makes great sense.

And truthfully, AJ Styles sucks so he could be a perfect first opponent for Reigns to just mow through.
2529901, Styles is vanilla as hell on the mic, but Japan improved him incredibly in-ring
Posted by magilla vanilla, Tue Apr-05-16 12:59 PM
2530253, Absolutely...
Posted by jimaveli, Wed Apr-06-16 05:49 PM
>

Yep. New Japan and Bullet Club took the 'TNA lifer' stank away from him and put him firmly into the 'indy darling with solid experience on real TV and in main events' category. Once he was vetted by Jericho, he was even mo' good to go in WWE. He's allegedly been catching a lot of love at live events as well. He's even been tearing it up with Fats Owens all over the place. Things are turning out for him.

I wonder if they'll try something similar with Roode. Maybe they trust him to be a shady heel sooner and he gets to have some real fun, but I don't know if he can work a 'wow enough' style to get a long rope. And he's certainly reeking of the TNA stank.

AJ is not gonna be Jericho even though he's has that template in-ring. He's just not good at the actin a fool part. And I don't even think he can Pacino holler his way through something intense. He's a less physically impressive but more rounded RVD if anything. But he'll deliver in the ring and get at least a bit of a run with some gold sometime in the next few years. He'll outdo that projection by far if Bullet Club: WWE Edition takes off and he's somehow involved.

I seriously/honestly think we're about to get Authority revised into being less prevalent Jack Tunney faces on all brands for a while. It would make things so much easier. HHH 2016 is a grand guy. He's the dude who is listed as responsible for bringing me NXT (aka WWE: The Indy Stars Rescue and Green Guy Training Edition). It is a stretch for me to hate him just because he's in a suit and can be found talking mean occasionally. Add in that he jabs Stephanie on the reg AND he manages to be in crazy good shape whenever needed. It is a wrap, Maggle. Dude should be a face.

And Reigns being the 'hey...I don't deserve this treatment, but I care not since I am the champ' guy who isn't above taking an opportunity if it is available is very likely to work. It is a lock if he's laid out as different types of heel depending on the situation. And they can lie and say they planned it all along (they didn't). Think heel Batista-style. He can do that since it doesn't require much talking. And lawd hammercy I'm fine with less talking unless it's Jerome in the house ass Enzo or heel Jericho.

Jimaveli
2530389, Honestly Reigns might do well with Diesels gimmick
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 10:24 AM
Not that I trust them to execute anything well. I'm just surprised when they do. Still, Reigns could be a good experiment to actually walk the line in a way they never did with Cena.

Cena was polarizing but his persona never really gave credence to it. Reigns needs more of that Big Daddy Cool air about him, on some "I'm cool with whoever rocks that black glove, but everyone else can get it".

Nash was well before his time with that but it could pay dividends for Reigns in this climate.
2530168, Yooooo… Enzo looks, sounds, and acts like he’s DDP’s son
Posted by Cold Truth, Wed Apr-06-16 12:32 PM
Cass? Look at this dude’s face and tell me that isn’t Edge’s kid

Something’s very fishy here.
2530243, lol
Posted by MaxPtah, Wed Apr-06-16 03:59 PM
correct on both, lol
2530330, They're guests on Austin's podcast this week...
Posted by Af-1, Thu Apr-07-16 06:26 AM
http://www.podcastone.com/pg/jsp/program/episode.jsp?programID=436&pid=1641985
2530385, YO! You're a Certified G for the heads up
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 10:15 AM
Thanks. I'm downloading right now.
2530401, as you'd imagine, this episode is a lot of fun.
Posted by pretentious username, Thu Apr-07-16 11:29 AM
2530267, I wouldn't have shed a tear if Shane died on that jump.
Posted by Cold Truth, Wed Apr-06-16 07:38 PM
Maybe then they’d actually stop relying on idiotic shit like that and, oh, I dunno, put some actual effort into, you know, creative and engaging storytelling and high quality wrestling matches.

No way in hell am I shedding tears at some dude dying in the process of epitomizing the reality and depth of his privilege in such an arrogant fashion.

He can do that shit because his wife and kids will be taken care of even in a worst case scenario.

He can do that shit because he doesn’t have to get up and perform the next night.

He can do that shit because it’s his daddies company.

He can do that shit because if he winds up permanently disabled and his “wrestling” career ends, his financial security doesn’t end with it.

His livelihood doesn’t live and die by the risks he takes. He doesn’t have to do shit like that and sacrifice his body in such horrific ways to build, make, or sustain his career. He’s afforded latitude real wrestlers are not for a hundred reasons and in a hundred ways and the consequences for something going terribly wrong are relatively minimal.

I wouldn’t have thrown a party if he died, but I certainly wouldn’t have mourned it as a real loss aside from the general empaty decent people feel for surviving wives and children in such situations.

I used to love things like this but as I grew older and gained a greater understanding of these things and developed a more mature perspective. It’s striking that the McMahon family cannot seem to grow and mature and move beyond such lowbrow, backward, and downright ignorant tactics to draw money because they’re too lazy or inept to put forth some effort on the creative side of things.

Everything about this represented everything wrong with the company from top to bottom and Shane dying or seriously hurting himself wouldn’t have bothered me in the slightest because everyone involved should know better. Everyone involved should have lived and learned and be cognizant of the fact that everyone just plain dodged a bullet to come away from that era relatively healthy.

At the most basic level, this past year is a glaring reminder that WWE has gotten a little too big for their proverbial britches and they are as out of touch as they’ve ever been. This past year unequivocally proves that they rely far too heavily on too much smoke, too many mirrors and too many antiquated motifs up to and including the antiquated, aging talent riding shotgun with the cheap car crash tactics.

They shouldn’t need to lean on so many of these parlor tricks with the talent on that roster. This isn’t about wanting them to push all the super cool indy cats to the forefront, though that’s certainly part and parcel. This is ultimately about going further back in the time machine and utilizing more of the basic, tried-and-true techniques that built this industry to begin with. Call me an indy mark all day, but guys like Kevin Owens, Dolph Ziggler, Cesaro, Dean Ambrose, Nakamura, Sami Zayn, New Day (even with the more ridiculous aspects of their act), Enzo & Cass, shit even Baron Corbin all innately posses various qualities that have proven time and again to be reliable in getting over and connecting with crowds in ways that draw money.

Vince’s penchant for pageantry elevated the medium to the rampaging Titan (pun intended) it became in the mid to late 90’s, but in the mid 00’s he’s become so blinded by that pageantry to the point of pushing every other important element to the side and now we’ve reached a point where his son has to jump from nauseating heights and crash into a table just to tread water.

Hopefully they’ll have learned from this fiasco.

Hopefully they’ll turn a corner and put some creative muscle behind the pageantry again.

Hopefully they’ll realize that a major part of the entertainment quota can and should be filled with compelling storytelling revolving around the drama of talented men and women battling each other to prove who is better in a 20 by 20 ring in pursuit of a title. That will put more butts in seats more often and more consistently than watching the privileged son of a billionaire jump off high places and crash into a table once a year.

I realize I’ve wasted every last one of those words.
It is what it is.
2530321, Dog he jumped off that fucking cage to entertain us
Posted by cantball, Thu Apr-07-16 01:55 AM

____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on
2530381, Was there no other way to entertain you?
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 10:06 AM
2530342, it's fake
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Apr-07-16 08:17 AM
.
2530373, nah you were right pre-edit
Posted by Oak27, Thu Apr-07-16 09:51 AM
2530384, What does it matter if he won't stand behind his words?
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 10:13 AM
2530432, you are the worst poster on the boards
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Apr-07-16 12:52 PM
I just thought "it's fake" was more appropriate
2530443, So..... you can talk about ME. But not the content of my post.
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 01:11 PM
You can make personal attacks but have nothing to say regarding the content of my post

I’m consistently told how “confrontational” I am, yet time and time again I’ll post something that attacks absolutely no one and the first thing that comes to the mind of a passive aggressive bitch like yourself is some personal shit about me? Oh the irony of this.
Same with Oak, you’re two passive aggressive peas in a pod. He calls me confrontational in a post where he also tells me he thinks I’m a miserable person and throws a dart at me for writing a “2,000 word dissertation” or some shit.

NO commentary on the subject. NO opinion or counterpoint to the subject matter, JUST personal attacks…. And yet… my post confronted no one. My post attacked no one. Rather than let my words fall by the wayside, you and him both decided to take a cheap shot for no good reason. Then you pulled your usual bitchmade fuckery and edited after you got it out of your system and opted to be smug and dismissive. Instead of attempting to address the content of my post OR just move along….you just had to throw that jab. You wouldn’t bother to criticize the content and instead chose to criticize me.

That’s pretty bad posting by any objective definition.

Conversely, my post presents a lot to chew on and was in fact a far more thoughtful, nuanced and articulate contribution than you’ve made in…. well… any post on any subject, anywhere, ever.
2530456, You do it to yourself
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Apr-07-16 01:29 PM
You actually said you would've been cool with seeing someone DIE, all because you're mad at how a wrestling company is run. Like what are we supposed to reply to that? Literally everyone else in this post probably thinks that's as asinine as I do. You're that mad about a fake entertainment show that you think someone deserved to lose his life. Who thinks that way?
2530460, I literally said nothing of the sort.
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 01:41 PM
>You actually said you would've been cool with seeing someone DIE,

No the fuck I didn't. The fact that your punk ass has to rephrase my words and leave out contextual elements of my post to present it in this way shows that your sorry ass doesn't have an actual argument here.

NEXT.

>all because you're mad at how a wrestling company is run.

NO bitch, you're too fucking dumb to understand the point. You're a dumb motherfucker who forms his political opinions through memes. You're too dumb and too eager to talk shit to pay attention to the context of what the I was saying.

NEXT.

>Like what are we supposed to reply to that? Literally everyone
>else in this post probably thinks that's as asinine as I do.
>You're that mad about a fake entertainment show that you think
>someone deserved to lose his life. Who thinks that way?

You're so pressed to attack me that you completely- YES, bitch, COMPLETELY twisted my words around to arrive at this conclusion.

First,it was in response to the post above where people were chanting "please don't die".

Second?

Actually.. fuck a second. You're too eager to make personal attacks and too dumb and just plain simple to bother explaining. Besides, everything I would explain is in the post.
2530377, And the industry *isn't* littered with men who died too young
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 10:00 AM
And guys like Mick Foley, who aren't dead, DON'T have long, lingering effects from falls like that.

And guys like Daniel Bryan and Edge DON'T have their careers cut short due to injuries sustained during "fake" wrestling.

And guys like Paul Heyman, no less, who dealt exclusively in this wheelhouse AREN'T on record saying they wouldn't have done all that shit if they knew then what they know now.

Yep, TOTALLY FAKE. Not dangerous at all.

And, most importantly, there ARE NOT better, more consistent, and sustainable ways to draw money in the long term.

It's funny looking back at your "I just want to talk wrestling, can't I just talk wrestling" post, because you don't *really* want to talk wrestling. I know this because you have this same sort of impotent response to any real discussion or opinion on the subject with any nuance whatsoever.

So, yes, I expressed an opinion and took a stance.

You and everyone else can choose to respond with an opinion of your own and have an actual discussion. In case you and, say pretentious username are confused about this, a discussion doesn't require both parties to agree. It's only an "argument" when one side becomes dismissive (as with your post)or disrespectful.

You can also do the usual bullshit: be snarky and contribute absolutely nothing of substance, as with your edited response, and then try to paint me as having some sort of "meltdown" for responding to it.

You can also just plain old move on with your day and say nothing at all.... but god forbid there's more to a thread then surface observations.

2530392, if its this agonizing for you why do you still watch
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Thu Apr-07-16 10:46 AM
you obviously dont like the product and you fear for their safety. seems to me like you'd just punt on WWE (and wrestling in general considering some of the dives I've seen Angelico make in Lucha)
2530395, That's what you got from my post?
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 11:03 AM
>you obviously dont like the product

Most people here don't like the product. In fact, I’ve seen Tiger Woods, the guy who “just wants to talk wrestling” and says “it’s fake” sit there and trash the roster on multiple occasions and drone on about how it didn’t compare to the Attitude Era.

He’s clearly had stretches where didn’t like the product and more to the point, played the old man “things were better in my day” routine. He’s trashed the product over the last year. Most people here have.

I like a lot of elements about the product- i.e, most of the wrestlers. In fact, I’ve written posts that absolutely gush about Enzo & Cass,Kevin Owens, Nakamura. In the past I’ve done the same with Daniel Bryan, Dolph Ziggler, The Shield. I’ve posted about how dope the Rhodes brothers were as a team and how great an overall performer Cody is.

I’ve written quite a lot over the years about things I genuinely love about the product.

What I strongly dislike is the overall presentation of the product. In fact, most people here have voiced similar discontent.
That’s funny because whenever I voice MY discontent and actually lay out the reasons behind my opinion, suddenly it’s a problem.


and you fear for their
>safety.

Huh? I’m talking about that particular style. I’m talking about Shane jumping off of that tall ass cage and how it was an unnecessary risk. I’m talking about how there are better and more sustainable ways to entertain over the long haul.

Yes, I’m saying there are better ways to entertain us. It’s dangerous by default but there are levels of risk and this one was definitely near the top of that hierarchy.

seems to me like you'd just punt on WWE (and wrestling
>in general considering some of the dives I've seen Angelico
>make in Lucha)

Are you suggesting I “love it or leave it”?

Do you think America is a flawless country or do you see some of the serious problems in this country? If you see so many problems, seems to me you’d just leave.

How about your job? Are there things about your job you don’t like?
How about a sports team. Lord knows every team isn’t a winner and even the winners fall off at some point. Bad coaches, shitty players, terrible management, you name it.

Do you bail on everything you generally enjoy because you recognize problems and deficiencies?
2530396, There really is too much wrestling today to spend so much effort
Posted by Oak27, Thu Apr-07-16 11:05 AM
on something you seemingly hate.

Think WWE is terrible, has been terrible and is looking to be terrible for the forseeable future? Well, NXT is Wednesdays, ROH uploads new episodes Wednesday or Thursday (I think?), Lucha is also Wednesdays, NJPW has a great card scheduled this weekend. Shit, maybe TNA would entertain you more these days. Who knows.
2530400, ALL of you have trashed the WWE product. All of you.
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 11:21 AM
So... this outrage is a little rich.

I mean, we’re on a sports board for crying out loud.

Do you think everyone who dislikes elements of their team and loathes the current state of affairs should jump ship to a different squad?


It’s also rich considering how much disdain you guys consistently display toward me and my posts. By your logic you should all simply ignore me completely. Since it’s seemingly to difficult to do that and it’s also too difficult to engage in an actual conversation based on the merit, or lack, of my discussion points, you all opt for the antagonistic or, in Tiger’s case, passive aggressive and limp wristed, jabs and snark.

By your logic you should leave America if you observe problems and are find yourself dissatisfied with the way certain things are done.
2530402, Yeah we all express our disgust
Posted by Oak27, Thu Apr-07-16 11:30 AM
but we don't write 2000 word dissertations of 100% bitching while saying we wouldn't care if a wrestler died. Shit, two Wrestling posts ago you couldn't even let a post about Bret Hart announcing his cancer go without chiming in with your surprise it wasn't throat cancer due to how much he "blows himself".

You're constantly confrontational and come off like a miserable person in real life. Hopefully I'm wrong though, but if not, I hope you can find happiness whether it be from WWE, another wrestling promotion, or another form of entertainment all together.
2530408, So.. Youre good to discuss ME but not the topic at hand.
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 11:51 AM
>but we don't write 2000 word dissertations of 100% bitching

Feel free to skip it.

>while saying we wouldn't care if a wrestler died.

Context is key.

Shit, two
>Wrestling posts ago you couldn't even let a post about Bret
>Hart announcing his cancer go without chiming in with your
>surprise it wasn't throat cancer due to how much he "blows
>himself".

A rather obvious joke. And yeah, he consistently puts himself over.

>You're constantly confrontational

....like......here? Lol. Yet... Who is confrontational here? I've had this particular discussion to many times to count. You can't have a simple discussion without throwing jabs at me. Tiger Woods can't have a discussion but he can be dismissive.

It's a bunch of passive aggressive motherfuckers with a lot of nerve telling me I'm "confrontational" when they can't talk about the subject but want to talk about me all day.

and come off like a
>miserable person in real life.

I'm happy and perfectly capable of having civil if disagreeable conversations in real life. You can't do that online. Who's miserable here?

...
..fully I'm wrong though, but
>if not, I hope you can find happiness whether it be from WWE,
>another wrestling promotion, or another form of entertainment
>all together.

This is what I mean: personal jabs followed by empty platitudes.

You still can't and won't discuss the merit of my take on the subject at hand, which I'm game to do...but you'll talk about me all day.

Who's confrontational again?
2530434, quit these posts forever
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Apr-07-16 12:54 PM
2530457, Do you have an actual thought beyond personal attacks?
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 01:33 PM
Brooklyn says I should just stop watching. No commentary or counterpoint to the subject of my post.

Oak says I’m miserable, confrontational, and took the usual shot at the length of my post. No commentary or counterpoint to the subject of my post.

You say I’m the worst poster on the boards, wrestling is fake, and should quit posting. Zero commentary or counterpoint to the subject of my post.

I made a post. You made personal attacks.

Yet, you guys are pressed about ME? Lol.

Bunch of passive aggressive clowns, the lot of you.

The truth is you’re an idiot. A moron. A buffoon. Just a dumb, simple motherfucker. Not everyone, but you most certainly are.
2530458, YOU SAID SHANE MCMAHON DESERVED TO DIE
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Apr-07-16 01:35 PM
BECAUSE YOU HATE A FAKE SHOW ON TV

YOU ARE THE DELUSIONAL ONE

LEAVE THESE POSTS FOREVER
2530463, Please, cut and paste the part where I said that
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 01:50 PM
Please, show me where I implied that

I said I wouldn't shed a tear.

You somehow managed to twist that into "Shane deserves to die."

I said:

"No way in hell am I shedding tears at some dude dying in the process of epitomizing the reality and depth of his privilege in such an arrogant fashion."

and

"I wouldn’t have thrown a party if he died, but I certainly wouldn’t have mourned it as a real loss aside from the general empaty decent people feel for surviving wives and children in such situations."

There was a post above talking about people chanting "please don't die".

I also said:

"Everything about this represented everything wrong with the company from top to bottom and Shane dying or seriously hurting himself wouldn’t have bothered me in the slightest because everyone involved should know better. Everyone involved should have lived and learned and be cognizant of the fact that everyone just plain dodged a bullet to come away from that era relatively healthy."

IN OTHER WORDS?

They didn't need to take that sort of risk. They don't need to go to that sort of extreme. Of all the things to rehash from the past, that's the worst one.

AND I ALSO SAID:

"I used to love things like this but as I grew older and gained a greater understanding of these things and developed a more mature perspective. It’s striking that the McMahon family cannot seem to grow and mature and move beyond such lowbrow, backward, and downright ignorant tactics to draw money because they’re too lazy or inept to put forth some effort on the creative side of things."

The ENTIRE RANT is about how this was unnecessary. About how they don't need to go to these lengths. I EVEN SAID I DON'T LIKE SEEING THAT SHIT ANYMORE.

If I'm lamenting about how unnecessary such a risk is, that's a pretty clear indication that I DO NOT WANT TO SEE ANYONE GET HURT. Let alone die.

yes, I said I wouldn't shed a tear over it... and the reason why? Because it wasn't necessary, they should know better, and they should strive to do OTHER THINGS that DO NOT INVOLVE THIS LEVEL OF RISK.

But again... you're too eager. Too amped. Too excited. Too happy to throw darts in my direction.
2530713, RE: Please, cut and paste the part where I said that
Posted by Tiger Woods, Fri Apr-08-16 10:55 AM

>"No way in hell am I shedding tears at some dude dying in the
>process of epitomizing the reality and depth of his privilege
>in such an arrogant fashion."

this isn't at all fucked to you?

this doesn't come across as you saying "it would have served him right if he'd died?" Because that's how it reads.

Do you not go see Tom Cruise movies because he does his own stunts?

Do you not watch football because players are at greater risk of degenerative brain diseases and/or death?

So the Shane bump enraged you that much, but the almost equally as dangerous ladder match earlier in the show was ok because at least those guys were newer non-McMahon faces?

Your take is both hypocritical and just laughably unnecessary.

This is ENTERTAINMENT.
2530726, Again, too excited. Too eager. Too amped. Listen up, dumb little man.
Posted by Cold Truth, Fri Apr-08-16 12:16 PM
>
>>"No way in hell am I shedding tears at some dude dying in
>the
>>process of epitomizing the reality and depth of his
>privilege
>>in such an arrogant fashion."
>
>this isn't at all fucked to you?

Nope. Not at all. Because again... None of this was necessary. And again, written after reading about the "please don't die" chants.

Nah. I'm not crying over that. But again...you're excited, eager, and pressed. And a goddamned moron. A fucking idiot who clings to the surface. A buffoon with an alergy to nuance. An emotional, low common denominator dunce.

>this doesn't come across as you saying "it would have served
>him right if he'd died?" Because that's how it reads.

You're reading what you choose to read. What you want to read. Because you're a fucking imbecile who salivates whenever you think you've "got" me.

>Do you not go see Tom Cruise movies because he does his own
>stunts?

Huh?

>Do you not watch football because players are at greater risk
>of degenerative brain diseases and/or death?

I don't watch football because it's fucking boring. I dunno what the duck you're rambling about. CLEARLY I STILL WATCH WRESTLING, you dumb pile of shit.

Far as football, it seems like they, like pro wrestling, may need to reevaluate their methods.

>So the Shane bump enraged you that much,

How am I "enraged"?

Notice how, AT EVERY FUCKING TURN, you have to alter and embellish my words to arrive at your conclusion?

Yeah, thats because you're a blithering idiot with a hard on for my screen name

>but the almost
>equally as dangerous ladder match earlier in the show was ok
>because at least those guys were newer non-McMahon faces?

Huh?

Yo

Lol

That shit was unnecssary too, but nobody jumped off that goddamned cage. Plus..THESE GUYS WRESTLE REGULARLY. so, you know, they're accustomed to working in a way that protects themselves and their opponents as much as possible. There's a night and day difference here.

But again... You're too gooddamned simple and too pressed over me.

Too goddamned eager to get it in.
Too stubborn to admit you jumped the gun.

My overarching point is 100% TRUTH, motherfucker, and the fact that you've only nibbled around the edges at the part that made your bitch ass clutch pearls and got deep in your feelings perfectly illustrates how incapable you are to actually argue my overarching point.

>Your take is both hypocritical and just laughably unnecessary.
>
>
>This is ENTERTAINMENT.

Yes. It is. And it's imperfect. Open to criticism.

Look, you can be the dumb motherfucker who watches and has no critical opinion of substance aside from the dumb fuckery of your lame, surface level "back in the attitude era.. " rants. That's all good. Do you. Be the best simpleton you can be.


2530729, stay awful dogg. I'm done.
Posted by Tiger Woods, Fri Apr-08-16 12:20 PM
2530732, Shut the fuck up. We both know you'll come running soon enough.
Posted by Cold Truth, Fri Apr-08-16 12:27 PM
Like I said...

You're down for mudslinging.

You're down to talk shit to me in hopes that others will join you in a dog pile.

You aren't down to "talk wrestling" beyond weak ass surface level commentary.

You aren't down for a real conversation with a teaspoon of substance but you'll talk shit and sling personal attacks all goddamned day.

And you'll come running for more the second someone chimes in and joins you. You'll piggyback off someone else's jabs at me and chime in with an unnecessary but passive aggressive "agreed" or some shit.

Guaran-fucking-teed.

See you around, sweet cheeks.

2530816, Great post. I hear you on most of it.
Posted by wallysmith, Fri Apr-08-16 04:37 PM
While I understand your overall sentiment, I can see why cats would want to call you out on the hypothetical of Shane McMahon dying (which is a lil extra, let's be honest).

But you're absolutely right. Shane can take risks like that because he's not with the company as an independent contractor. He's not footing his transportation, covering his medical, bunking with roommates. Shane doesn't have to grind to have a career. John Cena is wrestling's 1%, but Shane is wrestling's 0.01% (doesn't seem like it, but just like in the real world it's a *significant* difference).

However, while it's fine to view Shane and that spot as a microcosm of this past year, I think it's also fair to say that the future is brighter than it has been in years past. Sure, there's still tons of shittiness that you can point out way better than I can (as a fan that tends to go with the ebbs and flows), but the emergence of NXT as a real force in the company can't be denied. It's notable that Raw was dominated by NXT talent and maybe even more significant is the fact that NXT's lead writer was promoted to Smackdown. I feel genuinely privileged I was able to attend last year's NXT Mania show that Vince attended then seeing it come full circle with Takeover this year.

Sure, we've had these periods before when it feels like WWE does everything right then just as quickly they fuck it all up again. But, and correct me if I'm wrong, there was never another force pushing the main roster like NXT is now. The tenor of your post is absolutely on point but the timing feels a bit off. The booking for Shane vs The Undertaker was dogshit if they were gonna "give" Shane Raw anyways, but regardless of how we got here, at least we're finally *here*. There's a lot of promise right now, and I think I'm actually going to watch my first Smackdown in years tonight.
2530846, I don't think the Shane bit was extra at all. That's the entire point IMO
Posted by Cold Truth, Fri Apr-08-16 09:14 PM
>While I understand your overall sentiment, I can see why cats
>would want to call you out on the hypothetical of Shane
>McMahon dying (which is a lil extra, let's be honest).

The only reason this was even a thought in my head was a post above where someone said fans were chanting "please don't die".

To put this in perspective, chanting "please don't die" to a man who is about to jump off of a 20 foot cage onto a table is about a hundred times more morbid than my take that I wouldn't shed too many tears over it if he did.

All I said was that I wouldn't have mourned it because everyone should know better. I feel confident that the entirety of my post, when read from start to finish, makes it crystal clear that I don't think anyone should be doing anything like this precisely due to such dangers. Death is an obvious worst case scenario that isn't all that likely but the is completely unnecessary and everyone should be shooting that specific stunt down right away at this point..... ESPECIALLY for a part timer coming back after nearly a decade. Even if the worst case scenario doesn't happen, that's the sort of thing that shaves years off of a career and probably a life, all by itself.

To touch on something one of my antagonists pointed out, the ladder match isn't exactly a beacon of safety either. I'm not wild about those anymore either, though I think a straight up two man match is probably a safer match than this seven man car crash. Still, there's one critical difference there: these guys are real deal workers who currently work and they're far better equipped to take proper care of themselves and each other.

To that end it's odd to me that any reasonable person with critical thinking skills and no agenda would read my from start to finish and conclude that I was advocating or hoping or taking any sort of satisfaction, what with my clear concern for the safety of the wrestlers.

>But you're absolutely right. Shane can take risks like that
>because he's not with the company as an independent
>contractor. He's not footing his transportation, covering his
>medical, bunking with roommates. Shane doesn't have to grind
>to have a career. John Cena is wrestling's 1%, but Shane is
>wrestling's 0.01% (doesn't seem like it, but just like in the
>real world it's a *significant* difference).

Yep. From a pure entertainment, let them do their thing standpoint, it's not all that impressive considering how little he has to lose in comparison to full time workers.

To be clear- not to you because you clearly got it, but to the obvious people- I'm making a pretty obvious distinction in that statement between viewing it from a pure entertainment standpoint and a more nuanced standpoint.

I completely agree on the rest and think there's definite reason for optimism on the horizon. One other thing I'd like to touch on is the Nakamura/Zayn match. I LOVE Swag. I love everything about his act. That includes his strong style work.

Here's the thing: I'm not trying to see that particular match every time he hits the ring. On one hand, it loses it's effectiveness if it's all balls to the wall, all the time. On the other? Yeah, I want guys to stay healthy. I don't want these guys getting hurt permanently so I can enjoy watching them beat the dog shit out of each other every time out.
2530532, RIP BLACKJACK MULLIGAN
Posted by Selassie I God, Thu Apr-07-16 04:41 PM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/wwe-hall-famer-blackjack-mulligan-dead-73-article-1.2592045

Blackjack Mulligan, a former professional wrestler and a member of the WWE Hall of Fame, has died. He was 73.

A cause of death is currently unknown, but Worldwide Wrestling Entertainment announced the fan-favorite competitor had passed away with a statement released on its website Thursday.

"WWE is saddened by the news that Robert Windham, aka WWE Hall of Famer Blackjack Mulligan, has passed away," the statement read.

"WWE extends its sincerest condolences to Windham's family, friends and colleagues."
2530534, Damn. Was he the one in the hospital awhile back?
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 04:44 PM
Or was it someone else in Bray Wyatt's family? I know they had a grandfather or uncle in the hospital awhile back and missed a Raw show because of it.

2530621, BlackJack has some classic battles back in the day..
Posted by Warren Coolidge, Thu Apr-07-16 10:47 PM
he was one of the top guys for a minute...
2530585, catching up on the last 2 weeks of the Lucha Underground
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Thu Apr-07-16 09:47 PM
last week
- goddamn matanza did a number on my bow swagtagon jr. i wonder what this dudes lifts and workouts are like cause hes slinging everyone around like ragdolls.
- jobbers of death are getting a bit old of me. catrina need to reup on their dark magic powers
- taya's fucking fit. ready to see cage and mundo scrap it out once and for all.
- mariposa backstory was really fun.


this week
- love the killshot vignette
- ivelisse vs kobra moon was tight. i dont advocate the WWE pillaging LU talent* but i cant imagine why they arent throwing ducats at her. she's money in the ring and hot af (best lower half in the business). i also noticed some editing in there but nothing too egregious
- the mack and the moth having a flabby boy chop fight is hilarious.
- prince puma TALKS. rey, dragon and puma are gonna be fucking awesome together


*i saw they tryna scoop Melissa Santos too. they don't want Lucha to be great.
2530594, How is Rey doing in this mix?
Posted by Cold Truth, Thu Apr-07-16 10:10 PM
2530652, he hasn't really done much yet but be an OG
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Thu Apr-07-16 11:45 PM
to some of the younger people on the show and advance some of the mythology. Dario shows him hella respect too. he's only been in the Aztec Warfare match at this point in what's aired but he looks pretty fresh like he's had some time off. im excited to see what his team has in store.
2530882, Naomi would beg to differ
Posted by Selassie I God, Sat Apr-09-16 10:03 AM

>she's money in the ring and hot af
>(best lower half in the business)
2530943, i'm willing to judge it myself. in person. hands on preferably.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sat Apr-09-16 09:35 PM
2531006, LOL
Posted by Selassie I God, Sun Apr-10-16 12:28 PM
2530937, RE: the damn Matanza..:
Posted by jimaveli, Sat Apr-09-16 08:37 PM
Dude is a supreme caw machine. His forreal strength works for me. I'd rather that than having him be a big stiff doing big boots and sidewalk slams. Aka I am totally fine with his height cuz he's clearly legit strong. These German suplexes are outrageous. I know Fenix isn't a huge man but damn.

I was surprised when he straight up 'hurt' Pentagon jr. You have to figure they'll be one helluva get back on that.

Lucha is still rolling with some cool stories. They certainly take their liberties with the backstage karate but they hold it all together and it works on me.

And of course, Matanza and Mill are gonna kill it when they wrestle.

When that camera rolled to Puma and he talked, I was all in. I wonder if Rey is gonna keep looking spry throughout this season...if so, LU is even better.

>last week
>- goddamn matanza did a number on my bow swagtagon jr. i
>wonder what this dudes lifts and workouts are like cause hes
>slinging everyone around like ragdolls.
>- jobbers of death are getting a bit old of me. catrina need
>to reup on their dark magic powers
>- taya's fucking fit. ready to see cage and mundo scrap it out
>once and for all.
>- mariposa backstory was really fun.
>
>
>this week
>- love the killshot vignette
>- ivelisse vs kobra moon was tight. i dont advocate the WWE
>pillaging LU talent* but i cant imagine why they arent
>throwing ducats at her. she's money in the ring and hot af
>(best lower half in the business). i also noticed some editing
>in there but nothing too egregious
>- the mack and the moth having a flabby boy chop fight is
>hilarious.
>- prince puma TALKS. rey, dragon and puma are gonna be fucking
>awesome together
>
>
>*i saw they tryna scoop Melissa Santos too. they don't want
>Lucha to be great.
>
2531105, Matanza is a damn beast
Posted by pretentious username, Mon Apr-11-16 09:01 AM
He starts getting cheered because Dario got the return pop and then the first thing he does is pin Fenix. Instant heat. Whoever takes him down will get a huge pop. Speaking of... is Mil turning face??? They might be doing away with thiese guys...

>- jobbers of death are getting a bit old of me. catrina need
>to reup on their dark magic powers

i like their first masks better. also they should've done a little more to distinguish them. i don't even remember the names.

>- love the killshot vignette

wish this came last year, but holy shit.

i dont advocate the WWE
>pillaging LU talent* but i cant imagine why they arent
>throwing ducats at her.

i wish they'd grab a couple other women to replace a couple divas, but i also want them to get their writing down first. I recently saw Kimberlee from Chikara and she'd be great but she's probably too similar to Bayley character-wise.


>- prince puma TALKS. rey, dragon and puma are gonna be fucking
>awesome together
>

i marked out for this. would be hilarious if he doesn't say shit the rest of the season.
2531128, Mil just erring on the face-ish side of being a tweener right now.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-11-16 11:09 AM
i've always enjoyed rooting for him. i cheered my ass off when he threw fenix through the ceiling last year. shit was epic.

JoMo probably the only legit traditional heel.
2531129, Those workout commercials are classic, glad he's found his schtick
Posted by Oak27, Mon Apr-11-16 11:14 AM

>JoMo probably the only legit traditional heel.

2531137, he's single-handedly making parkour look as douchey as crossfit
Posted by pretentious username, Mon Apr-11-16 11:47 AM
also i loved the line "I want abs till I'm 45." lol, why stop then?
2531143, Most people I've seen do parkour look douchey as hell
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-11-16 12:18 PM
Mundo looks like he gets way more pussy than the average parkour nerd but lets be honest, that shit was never a wellspring of cool.
2531144, oh i agree, it's just that i've never heard anyone talk about parkour
Posted by pretentious username, Mon Apr-11-16 12:22 PM
as much as i've heard people talk about crossfit. i suppose that's because there's more of a business model so it's more popular. i guess the advantage that parkour would have on the douche scale would be "i pay nothing for this" rather than "i pay hundreds a month."
2531147, Best believe Parkour gyms are training dudes for Ninja Warrior
Posted by magilla vanilla, Mon Apr-11-16 12:49 PM
https://www.facebook.com/frontmag/videos/10154070674342668/
2531148, I wish I wasn't this entertained by the dino costume vids
Posted by pretentious username, Mon Apr-11-16 12:55 PM
the way the neck bends cracks me up.
2531149, Oh I’m sure there are plenty of top shelf, Cesaro types in there
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-11-16 01:02 PM
I’m just saying… in general, there’s an awful lot of vinegar and water filling out the rest.
2531150, I did not post that as an endorsement
Posted by magilla vanilla, Mon Apr-11-16 01:04 PM
Just to counter that there's no business model behind Parkour.
2531174, is that scorpion pushup a real exercise or did i get trolled
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-11-16 02:01 PM
cause i tried it and that shit hurt like a bitch lmfao.
2531138, yeah, they kinda don't care about traditional heel/face roles.
Posted by pretentious username, Mon Apr-11-16 11:47 AM
they've capitalized on pentagon's popularity without changing anything about him. that's a reflection of how good their writing is. i always come around on wrestlers that i didn't care for at first (like Cage).
2531151, But, unlike WWE where that's also true, they show their damn work
Posted by magilla vanilla, Mon Apr-11-16 01:07 PM
and make the stories make sense.
2531163, Yep. They also own the world and format they’ve created
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-11-16 01:25 PM
2530740, Network Nuggets
Posted by Flash80, Fri Apr-08-16 12:51 PM
post 'em up
2530742, bret hart (champ) vs the 1-2-3 kid - monday night raw 7/11/94
Posted by Flash80, Fri Apr-08-16 12:59 PM
peeped this last week. not a 100% workrate clinic like you'd expect.

bret was pretty aggressive and a tweener in this match.. still a babyface but resorting to heelish tactics like european uppercuts in the corner and kicks to ribs when when waltman was down.

nice "cinderella story" build up into the match, as the kid had previously upset razor ramon (infamous $10K match) and then ted dibiase. even though he ultimately took bret's finisher, waltman has always said that bret put him OVER big time by allowing him to "get all his shit in"...

even JR and macho man gave a standing ovation from the announcer's table after the match.

2530744, also, LOL @ a triple H match probably never appearing here. nm
Posted by Flash80, Fri Apr-08-16 01:04 PM
2530795, RE: also, LOL @ a triple H match probably never appearing here. nm
Posted by jimaveli, Fri Apr-08-16 03:16 PM
>

His recent good stuff has been seen, so maybe he's gonna be lacking in 'sneaky' good stuff. He also dragged himself down with all of those 30-minute lay around festivals during his more maligned times. I want to go back through his attitude stuff at some point because it seems like he's a MUCH better wrestler now and I want see it...

In my mind, I remember a ironman match with Rock being hella good even with the goofy stuff at the end.

I need to watch that 3 stages of hell match with Austin again sometime too.

Really, I've been meaning to do a run of rando Austin matches too because I KNOW he had a lot of good ones post-piledriver. In my mind, at the time of his run, lots of the innanet cried that all he did was punch and at some point it became gospel. It WAS TRUE at times (some tv matches), but he has some good ones because he was a forreal good wrestler who just worked a style around a catalog of big injuries as to not squander the hottest run of any wrestler ever from 98 to 2001. And even then, he had to miss a chunk of time.

It reminds me of Bryan's run in a way even though they are different workers. A big difference is Bryan existing in a different time in WWE history. And someone somewhere drew a line on him being in the ring in his condition. In the past, dude prolly would've still been on the scene having risky matches unless a different injury took him out. Even with that, he prolly should've been on the shelf for Mania 30. CRAZY. No mater what, wrestling is hard on a body.


2531156, one of my favorite post-piledriver Austin matches
Posted by Dr Claw, Mon Apr-11-16 01:15 PM
>Really, I've been meaning to do a run of rando Austin matches
>too because I KNOW he had a lot of good ones post-piledriver.
>In my mind, at the time of his run, lots of the innanet cried
>that all he did was punch and at some point it became gospel.
>It WAS TRUE at times (some tv matches), but he has some good
>ones because he was a forreal good wrestler who just worked a
>style around a catalog of big injuries as to not squander the
>hottest run of any wrestler ever from 98 to 2001. And even
>then, he had to miss a chunk of time.

might not be on the network because it involves one Chris Benoit. that was the return of ECW/Early WWE Austin... and I think it was on SmackDown! during the Heyman Era.
2531220, RE: one of my favorite post-piledriver Austin matches
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-11-16 06:54 PM
You're talking about the one where Austin was champ and Benoit was challenger? If so, that's the one where they wrestled on Raw and Smackdown back-to-back. And it was supreme. I have that on VHS somewhere.

>>Really, I've been meaning to do a run of rando Austin
>matches
>>too because I KNOW he had a lot of good ones
>post-piledriver.
>>In my mind, at the time of his run, lots of the innanet
>cried
>>that all he did was punch and at some point it became
>gospel.
>>It WAS TRUE at times (some tv matches), but he has some good
>>ones because he was a forreal good wrestler who just worked
>a
>>style around a catalog of big injuries as to not squander
>the
>>hottest run of any wrestler ever from 98 to 2001. And even
>>then, he had to miss a chunk of time.
>
>might not be on the network because it involves one Chris
>Benoit. that was the return of ECW/Early WWE Austin... and I
>think it was on SmackDown! during the Heyman Era.
2531133, I might have one that I'll post tonight
Posted by magilla vanilla, Mon Apr-11-16 11:24 AM
2531169, Triple H v. D-Lo Brown, Raw
Posted by Oak27, Mon Apr-11-16 01:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=594yO0XITqg
2531182, You're looking at the real deal now.
Posted by magilla vanilla, Mon Apr-11-16 02:49 PM
D'Lo improves anything. Awful Aces and Eights angle? Throw D'Lo in there.

Can't get a dude over? Tag him with D'Lo (or have him take an armored frog spalsh).

Kinda ridiculous, knee-based offense? Lemme throw some neck whips at it.
2531184, one of the rare Attitude era guys who will never get his due n/m
Posted by pretentious username, Mon Apr-11-16 02:54 PM
2531185, I was a big fan of his initial Euro title run
Posted by Oak27, Mon Apr-11-16 03:04 PM
I specifically remember during the duration of it there was a column in every month's WWF Magazine where D'Lo would "visit" a European country and talk about his favorite parts.
2531187, I seem to remember him starting to get over in a big way at one point
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-11-16 03:08 PM
He’s one of the few mid card dudes I can think of where everyone I come across seems to remember fondly and without criticism.
2531189, i used to wear my neck out doing that neck whip walk.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-11-16 03:48 PM
2531244, Hunter Hearst Helmsley w/ Chyna vs. Cactus Jack, falls count anywhere
Posted by magilla vanilla, Mon Apr-11-16 10:48 PM
Clinic? Nah, but it is a fun little FCA match that ends with a table spot on the stage. Also, you get to see Mick's dumb unprotected chair shots in abundance.

http://youtu.be/c2ohpJkHp-U
2531279, One of the earliest Raw moments I remember from my childhood
Posted by Oak27, Tue Apr-12-16 08:47 AM
Always loved the three faces of Foley segment to introduce Cactus Jack and the piledriver through the table finish.

Foley really helped legitimize Hunter as a serious threat both during this feud and later in the early parts of 2000 as he helped elevate him to the main event heel.
2531462, Yep, without this run there is no "King of Kings"
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-13-16 06:16 AM
>Always loved the three faces of Foley segment to introduce
>Cactus Jack and the piledriver through the table finish.
>
>Foley really helped legitimize Hunter as a serious threat both
>during this feud and later in the early parts of 2000 as he
>helped elevate him to the main event heel.
2530762, Hart kinda underrates his own heel work imo
Posted by pretentious username, Fri Apr-08-16 01:51 PM
The way he tells it he was a natural babyface and when he was turned heel it was usually a mistake. I mean it goes without saying that he wasn't the best on the mic, but as far as in the ring he could tell whatever story he wanted and get sympathy or heat as needed.
2530771, RE: Hart kinda underrates his own heel work imo
Posted by Flash80, Fri Apr-08-16 02:20 PM
>The way he tells it he was a natural babyface and when he was
>turned heel it was usually a mistake. I mean it goes without
>saying that he wasn't the best on the mic, but as far as in
>the ring he could tell whatever story he wanted and get
>sympathy or heat as needed.

yep. it's that nuanced ring psychology that you just don't get today.

bret even drew a good amount of boos in the match, which was pretty rare on tv for the time period, considering wwf had a production truck that over-protected hulk hogan when people had started to tire of him (mute button @ the royal rumble '92)

the hitman definitely underrates his heel mic work in '97 too. him continually crying about "getting screwed" was a key plot device with the fans that led to the double-turn with austin. and post-WM 13, no one had really cared about canada either way, but he was still able to draw major heat by shitting all over america. lol
2530775, right, this is simple but almost always works:
Posted by pretentious username, Fri Apr-08-16 02:25 PM
but he was still able to draw major heat by shitting all
>over america. lol
>

Although I kinda laughed when Rusev was trying to insult Obama in the midwest and shit. You think those people are gonna stick up for him over Putin. They'll boo both of them.
2531158, 'Heel' Bret is my favorite Bret. 1997 Bret in particular
Posted by Dr Claw, Mon Apr-11-16 01:17 PM
>The way he tells it he was a natural babyface and when he was
>turned heel it was usually a mistake. I mean it goes without
>saying that he wasn't the best on the mic, but as far as in
>the ring he could tell whatever story he wanted and get
>sympathy or heat as needed.

the ramp up to Wrestlemania 13 (which IMO he was probably the best part of), in which Bret and Austin officially switched places

"FRUSTRATED ISN'T THE GODDAMN WORD FOR IT!!! THIS IS BULLSHIT!!!"

kayfabe or no, that felt real as shit. that's the way it should be.
2530756, ...find that ignoring is the best policy...
Posted by Buck, Fri Apr-08-16 01:37 PM
2530773, here's a 15 page essay on why it isn't...
Posted by pretentious username, Fri Apr-08-16 02:22 PM
2530777, Then theres this passive aggressive bullshit
Posted by Cold Truth, Fri Apr-08-16 02:27 PM
2530794, I'll stick to passive aggression
Posted by pretentious username, Fri Apr-08-16 03:15 PM
you stick to taking a blowtorch in to the lightest posts on the board. I don't get into arguments with literally everyone, so I think I'm doing alright.
2530803, There was no blowtorch. Just a bunch of townsfolk throwing kerosene lamps
Posted by Cold Truth, Fri Apr-08-16 03:29 PM
Same thing happened in the last thread too.

I post some shit that people disgree with and/or don't actually read and they lose their fucking minds over it.

A spineless bitch like you joins the fray just to take your little cheap shots. What's funny is that makes you every bit the problem you say I am.

2530831, "spineless bitch"
Posted by Tiger Woods, Fri Apr-08-16 06:51 PM
Ugh

Dude just beat it
2530834, LOL I FUCKING TOLD YOU. Thought you were done?
Posted by Cold Truth, Fri Apr-08-16 07:12 PM
Beat it? Bitch, you're welcome to log the fuck off and stay off because I'm not going anywhere.

You have ZERO moral high ground to tell me to "beat it".

Y'all started taking your little potshots at ME, motherfucker.

You didn't like my post?

You were too goddamned pressed to read it all the way through
?

You were too fucking stupid to understand my point?

Cool.

You and everyone else could have EASILY kept it moving but chose not to.

You and everyone else EASILY could have addressed the logic and reason of my post with logic and reason of your own. You chose not to.

Instead you chose to hurl insults, smug dismissals and personal attacks.

So no, you dumb, semi literate cunt, you have no place to say word one about what I choose to say to anyone.



2530836, My man, don't you see the joke's on you??
Posted by Tiger Woods, Fri Apr-08-16 07:36 PM
2530840, Why do you continue to derail the post?
Posted by Cold Truth, Fri Apr-08-16 07:51 PM
I thought you "just want to talk wrestling"?

I thought you were "done, dogg"?

You're too goddamned dumb to hold a real conversation so you roll with nothing but insults.

The only joke I see in here is the lot of dumb motherfuckers who avoid any conversation with any weight or depth and absolutely NEED to ban together to have a dog pile full of personal attacks when I say something they either don't like, disagree with, or just plain dont understand......

These are facts, bitch.

That's the only joke here. Not me.
2530778, Or reading. There's also reading.
Posted by Cold Truth, Fri Apr-08-16 02:31 PM
Also, ignoring is ignoring. Not commenting on how ignoring is the best policy. That's just being passive aggressive so you can get a jab in while pretending you're being civil.

2531122, Invasion Attack was a great event
Posted by Oak27, Mon Apr-11-16 10:40 AM
First time seeing Will Ospreay. Him and Kushida had one of the best matches of the year so far.

And the immediate aftermath of Naito's title win is any indication of his reign it's going to be fucking fantastic. Some classic heel shit that if it weren't for the smarky crowd would have gotten him booed out of the promotion.

It also seems like Japan's crowd is becoming very late 90's American-esque in their enjoyment of the bad guy over the traditional babyface. Bullet Club were hated all over the country while Los Ingoblahablahles are getting mostly cheered at this point.
2531235, Personal request...
Posted by Selassie I God, Mon Apr-11-16 09:20 PM
Can AJ stop with the Styles Superman Punch (bka the Phenomenal Forearm)?

For a guy with SO MUCH OFFENSIVE ABILITY, that lame crap as a finisher is...well...lame for lack of a batter word.

Just my opinion...
2531236, i think they're tryna move him away from the Styles Clash.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Apr-11-16 09:32 PM
2531272, whatever that move was that he did to kofi a few weeks ago
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-12-16 08:31 AM
that should at least be under consideration. everyone was talking about that the next day.
2531265, Tonight may prove to be a great Raw 6 months from now.
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-12-16 01:25 AM
Everything looks and feels like a fresher product overall with so many newer faces getting significant screen time and the workhorse matches are getting the quality minutes they deserve.

-I'm still bullish on Enzo & Cass. The mic work is great, though they could tighten it up a little. I'm a little worried that people will tire of the routine after a few weeks. One thing about New Day is that, unlike similarly charismatic teams in the past, they're not a one trick pony, er, unicorn. One benefit of the unicorn nonsense- much as I grimace when they're doing it- is that it's just one of several motifs for them. They can switch it up. I think Enzo & Cass might wind up a lot like New Day in that there's gonna be some face-palm material in the midst of the gold and people will ultimately just take the bad with the good.

-I like the state of the tag team division overall right now. There's some depth there now and it has a chance to become a key part of the show going forward.

-I'll have to wait and see how the BC boys play out. I was bored as fuck by this entry into WWE. That really wasn't how you introduce someone you want to be a big deal. The beating itself was dope but glaring problem here is that beating up the Usos doesn't really move anyone and the crowd had an awkward response overall from what I saw. Some people booed while those who knew them were excited, but the overall effect was very disjointed to me. Last weeks crowd was the crowd to debut these guys if this was their introduction. Still, if this was just the first salvo in a far greater war then it's a nice stepping stone. For now I'm ambivalent.

-I'm not liking the fact that they're keeping Reigns face right now, especially with AJ. They need to go all-in with him more as a tweener if they're not turning him heel, which means no congratulating anyone. NO putting anyone over on any level. He doesn't have to be disrespectful, but he shouldn't be showing anyone any respect. He may need to walk that fine line in a big way. But then, this Bray situation is intriguing.

-Apollo Crews is MEH as a motherfucker to me. He just walks out there and smiles and frankly, Neville is much better in the cheesy backflippy guy department. That standing moonsault is impressive because, hey, I can't do it, but other than that? Eh. I dunno. I just don't see it with him. That turnbuckle smiley thing he does is gonna backfire at some point.

There's a lot more to take away from tonight, but everything has an air of uncertainty to it.For once they've given themselves a plethora of options from top to bottom.Chances are 90% of this will wind up with the more predictable status quo option, but at least they've planted a fair amount of seeds that allow for some potentially interesting zigs and zags. Tonight's Raw could look like an important episode down the road.
2531269, The BC debut was definitely underwhelming
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-12-16 06:50 AM
I do think it made some sense to do to the Usos though, even though the crowd didn't seem that into it, you have to remember they are basically tag team Cena. Beating them up makes them the biggest heels in the company immediately to half of the fan base, even if you couldn't hear them in the crowd tonight.

I think Apollo is going to be ok, they're letting people get a little used to him right now, I think we'll see more from him soon. As far as the Neville comparison, sure Neville is better at all of the flippy shit, but Neville doesn't look like a monster the way Crews does.

Crews is basically everything Vince wants in a champ with a moveset ability that the fans want. If he can work his mic skills up, he really can be unstoppable and their next mega superstar
2531286, RE: Tonight may prove to be a great Raw 6 months from now.
Posted by MaxPtah, Tue Apr-12-16 09:14 AM
>Everything looks and feels like a fresher product overall
>with so many newer faces getting significant screen time and
>the workhorse matches are getting the quality minutes they
>deserve.
>
>-I'm still bullish on Enzo & Cass. The mic work is great,
>though they could tighten it up a little. I'm a little worried
>that people will tire of the routine after a few weeks. One
>thing about New Day is that, unlike similarly charismatic
>teams in the past, they're not a one trick pony, er, unicorn.
>One benefit of the unicorn nonsense- much as I grimace when
>they're doing it- is that it's just one of several motifs for
>them. They can switch it up. I think Enzo & Cass might wind up
>a lot like New Day in that there's gonna be some face-palm
>material in the midst of the gold and people will ultimately
>just take the bad with the good.
>
>-I like the state of the tag team division overall right now.
>There's some depth there now and it has a chance to become a
>key part of the show going forward.
>
>-I'll have to wait and see how the BC boys play out. I was
>bored as fuck by this entry into WWE. That really wasn't how
>you introduce someone you want to be a big deal. The beating
>itself was dope but glaring problem here is that beating up
>the Usos doesn't really move anyone and the crowd had an
>awkward response overall from what I saw. Some people booed
>while those who knew them were excited, but the overall effect
>was very disjointed to me. Last weeks crowd was the crowd to
>debut these guys if this was their introduction. Still, if
>this was just the first salvo in a far greater war then it's a
>nice stepping stone. For now I'm ambivalent.
>
>-I'm not liking the fact that they're keeping Reigns face
>right now, especially with AJ. They need to go all-in with him
>more as a tweener if they're not turning him heel, which means
>no congratulating anyone. NO putting anyone over on any level.
>He doesn't have to be disrespectful, but he shouldn't be
>showing anyone any respect. He may need to walk that fine line
>in a big way. But then, this Bray situation is intriguing.
>
>-Apollo Crews is MEH as a motherfucker to me. He just walks
>out there and smiles and frankly, Neville is much better in
>the cheesy backflippy guy department. That standing moonsault
>is impressive because, hey, I can't do it, but other than
>that? Eh. I dunno. I just don't see it with him. That
>turnbuckle smiley thing he does is gonna backfire at some
>point.
>
>There's a lot more to take away from tonight, but everything
>has an air of uncertainty to it.For once they've given
>themselves a plethora of options from top to bottom.Chances
>are 90% of this will wind up with the more predictable status
>quo option, but at least they've planted a fair amount of
>seeds that allow for some potentially interesting zigs and
>zags. Tonight's Raw could look like an important episode down
>the road.

Yeah I need to see more from Crews. Power and athletic ability looks great, but it seems like he is missing that "it" factor. And 10000000% agree with you on the smiley face thing. I see that being something that backfires on him. Bringing up Neville and him in the same breath is interesting. I see that being a tag team then when its time for Crews to break out own, a heel turn to counter the smiley face stuff.

What are the odds that they combine Bullet/Balor Club? Or will there be an angle where they're aligned with one then the other comes and takes over?
2531419, becky's quite clever (vid)
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Tue Apr-12-16 06:46 PM
https://twitter.com/lexiebybecky/status/719753276321841152

ice cold.
2531467, Ethered.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Apr-13-16 07:44 AM
Evil Emma's soul burning real slow right now.
2531469, well played becky, well played. n/m
Posted by pretentious username, Wed Apr-13-16 08:00 AM
2531478, RE: becky's quite clever (vid)
Posted by jimaveli, Wed Apr-13-16 08:22 AM
>https://twitter.com/lexiebybecky/status/719753276321841152
>
>ice cold.

Makes me happy. Two feuds in women's division. No luv triangles? Whaaaat!? It's like Jim Ross is back on the payroll. Personal issues feeding into matches. I hope the boss is healthy.

I'm enjoying things for now. I'm trying to do my part and support the direction so that they don't abandon it. There'll be rough patches since some folks are needed rehab like Reigns and Husky. Ryder and Ziggla...poor fellas maybe. But Maw-Reece is back and Miz is holding a title and getting the heat he's earned by being a classic horrible person heel who people love seeing get beat up. And hell...even the non-recap parts of smackdown 'matter'. Bullet club is coming. Booty-o's is still funny. They're acting like tag teams are a forreal thing. And Enzo/Cass got in at the right time, things are looking up for them and they have t even thrown a punch yet. I'll take it.

Indy cats having 'important' matches on wwe tv is a wrestling nerd's dream come true. And it's multiple dudes so far. It'll be interesting to see how they put the returning dudes into the mix. Of course, they have to win matches too. And of course, that's when the innanet will freak out. And Sami is gonna be losing close to see if they can build up to folks really wanting to see him finally win a big one. And that could kill him in the process of folks get tired of waiting. But I'm chillin. Good rasslin, usage of the roster, some better stories, women doing their thing, Shinsuke is on nxt kicking people and doing jackass taunts aka he's not throwing rice..it's not perfect, but there's obviously a set of good decisions at play...I'm in.
2531463, RIP Balls Mahoney
Posted by Y2Flound, Wed Apr-13-16 06:17 AM
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/697383-ecw-original-balls-mahoney-passes-away-at-age-44

Cold hearted enough to chalk this up to one I'm not really surprised to hear about, but still, anytime someone dies at 44 it's extra sad.

Also, him being 44 is crazy, he was so young when I was seeing him in ECW.
2531476, A few of those ECW guys were young, I think Rhyno just cracked 40
Posted by Oak27, Wed Apr-13-16 08:18 AM
2532242, The new additions to the WWE roster...
Posted by Selassie I God, Thu Apr-14-16 08:15 PM
Enzo & Cass...Meh. Enzo reminds me of GrandMaster Sexay meets the Full blooded Italians. The crowd seems very into them, but it could get old very quickly for my taste.

Apollo Crews...I don't know what to think. The move set is nice, and I kinda dig that they are giving a little shine to a brother after they exiled Titus, but as someone else said earlier in the thread, the constant smile thing bothers me...reminds me of a mini Bobby Lashley...could be a huge star, could e a jobber by Survivor Series.

Bullet Club...I need to see more of them together here to have a real opinion. (Isn't Gallows a re-tread in WWE?) Wouldn't mind a reunion with AJ Styles but I doubt it will happen.

Baron Corbin...I LIKE. The whole "beat the hell out of everyone that steps to me" thing works for me. Let him seek and destroy for a while and he'll be fine.

Sammi Zayn...Very impressive. i like just about everything about him so far, and he seems to be pretty over.

The VaudeVillians...Cmon son


Just my opinion...
2532249, By the way..
Posted by Selassie I God, Thu Apr-14-16 08:47 PM
does every Hispanic wrestler get the 3 month long vignette intro?

Del Rio
Carlito
Primo & Epico
2532268, Primo & Epico have gotten it like 3 times too
Posted by im_freshhh, Thu Apr-14-16 10:32 PM
how many times are they gonna repackage these guys & give them month long vignettes?
2532284, also, is their new gimmick tour guides?
Posted by im_freshhh, Thu Apr-14-16 11:44 PM
2532316, Gallows was only part of one of the best heel gimmicks ever
Posted by Innocent Criminal, Fri Apr-15-16 06:56 AM
Straight Edge Society.

>(Isn't Gallows a re-tread in WWE?)
2532324, But he was also mentally retarded for a year
Posted by Oak27, Fri Apr-15-16 08:30 AM
2532325, And now he has a successful team so let's move on
Posted by Y2Flound, Fri Apr-15-16 08:33 AM
Don't turn this into when fans were chanting Husky Harris at Bray Wyatt trying to tank it from the start.
2532652, Forgive me...I can't keep track
Posted by Selassie I God, Sat Apr-16-16 07:02 PM
if every single person that graced the WWE roster, especially when they change identities. He looked familiar, I just couldn't place the name and face.
2532672, man that trios match on LU this week is def worth a watch.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Sat Apr-16-16 10:08 PM
Dragon Azteca is tiny out there but that dude got an arsenal. match is fucking lit tho.


Killshot finisher look dangerous af too. i guess he about to catch a wave cause it look like they figured out what they want to do with his character.


i like this new dude Daga on here too. made Texano look good too.


and we got Mil vs Matanza next week!
2532791, Have Mil and Katrina fully turned?
Posted by TheAlbionist, Mon Apr-18-16 05:14 AM
Shit had me YELLING with he Believers when he came after Matanza.

This is how you book a wrestling show, people.

Really enjoying Sexy Star's arc this season... I was a bit sceptical of her at first (ok, mainly it's the name)... when she finally came out to bail out The Mack, that beat down she handed out was VICIOUS.

2532841, RE: man that trios match on LU this week is def worth a watch.
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-18-16 01:57 PM
>Dragon Azteca is tiny out there but that dude got an arsenal.
>match is fucking lit tho.
>
>
>Killshot finisher look dangerous af too. i guess he about to
>catch a wave cause it look like they figured out what they
>want to do with his character.
>
>
>i like this new dude Daga on here too. made Texano look good
>too.
>
>
>and we got Mil vs Matanza next week!

The pacing of the show is a nice change of...errr..pace. And somehow, with ONE 1-hour show they manage to build things up to be big deals. And they pay the shit off. Maybe that's part of it...you don't get 4 month or 2 years to think about Matanza vs Mil after Matanza is revealed. In a couple days, we get some kind of confrontation. I expect strong dude shit to be jumping off. Hossing like a snk boss or a SFV dipsy doo combo.

And yeah...indy dudes are probably not as horrible about throwing a million moves into matches as JR may have us believe, but cats ARE still doing modified attempted murder suplexes that the average big league main eventer is NOT taking from someone they don't know and trust the hell out of.
2533727, yeah im hoping it's a real good brawl. im bout to watch it tonight i think
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Thu Apr-21-16 05:25 PM

>
>The pacing of the show is a nice change of...errr..pace. And
>somehow, with ONE 1-hour show they manage to build things up
>to be big deals. And they pay the shit off. Maybe that's part
>of it...you don't get 4 month or 2 years to think about
>Matanza vs Mil after Matanza is revealed. In a couple days, we
>get some kind of confrontation. I expect strong dude shit to
>be jumping off. Hossing like a snk boss or a SFV dipsy doo
>combo.
>
2532892, OK...I'm done with Enzo and Cass already
Posted by Selassie I God, Mon Apr-18-16 07:59 PM
The schtick is a tired, Cass is stiff as a board, and for two weeks in a row, that has to be the worst rocket launcher I've ever seen...for it to look convincing/effective, the one guy actually has to touch the other guy and make it look like he is throwing him...pitiful.
2533055, the whole production's garbage
Posted by Flash80, Tue Apr-19-16 09:41 AM
they're sitting on a (poor man's) goldmine with a potentially smug heel in reigns.

but nooooo... they had to trot out a weak ass talker like styles to interrupt him and get the last word in.

what?

then they have the anderson/gallows dudes jump reigns..

what?

then they abruptly cut to commercial two seconds later while the desk is mid-commentary.

what?

come back from commercial with a FRESH reigns walking backstage, only to bring in styles again with him.

what?


i made it an hour in and then hit stop on the dvr. an improvment from last week's 30 minutes i guess.
2533065, There's only one word to describe you fam.
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-19-16 10:02 AM
SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWFT.

Jokes aside, this is one of the things I’m concerned about with them.

I think they’re a great act, but they need to add some depth. Right now they’re establishing themselves and coming out the same way each week is the right way to go. New Age Outlaws went a VERY long way with a similarly limited act because it’s SO polished and well executed so even if that entrance is exactly the same a year from now I’m good because it’s clear Enzo and roll with anyone on the roster verbally once the entrance is over.

Both are green in the ring but I think they’ll be fine. After their Austin podcasts it’s clear they’re both here because they love the business and they’re both students of the game. They both have a pretty clear understanding of how tag team wrestling works.
That said I get why they won’t work for some folks.
2532932, They shoulda left Apollo Crews in NXT for at least 6 more months
Posted by pretentious username, Mon Apr-18-16 09:50 PM
He was doing fine, just had some stuff to iron out, but he'll never get over like this.
2532944, I agree
Posted by Selassie I God, Mon Apr-18-16 10:29 PM
Like I said in an earlier post, he has talent, but this handling sucks...he'll either be a superstar or a jobber by Survivor Series, and the way things are going, it doesn't look good for him without a serious change of direction somehow.
2532970, 6 months from now he'd still a cheesy, smiley face mofo
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-18-16 11:15 PM
2533017, Problem is too much other new shit is going on
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-19-16 06:11 AM
If Apollo debuted in that dead time (like 10 months a year) where nothing is happening it would be an exciting flash.

Right now he is being overshadowed by all of the change. "Shane in charge", KO and Zayn, AJ in the main event, Bullet Club destroying people, big pushes for lots of indy darlings, Corbin and Enzo and Cass getting the big NXT rubs.

Right now Crews ranks like 10th or 11th of interesting things going on when most of the time he could be top 3 or 4. That's probably what waiting would have done for him. His call up is just less exciting because they can't do anything major with him right now. I guess you could push him to like the US title, but are people gonna get geeked for Kalisto vs Crews?

Now if Ryback had the belt that could be a feud that went somewhere.
2533058, Thing is, everyone else on that list is interesting
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-19-16 09:50 AM
I’d buy the ‘crowded field’ argument if half of that list was lost in the shuffle and not delivering. Everyone else is delivering something to talk about on some degree.

The issue with Crews here is…. Crews.

Honestly, he’s corny. This presentation is boring. Precious, even. It’s plain yogurt. It’s not even vanilla. It’s too goody two shoes. It’s Rocky Maivia….without the charisma.

He just stands there and smiles on that turnbuckle.

His move set is very hit and miss. That standing moonsault? I mean, I can’t do it. There’s that. It’s still not all that exciting to watch.
He’s too short for his muscles to stand out.

The lack of mic time hurts but man… he’d have to spit some fire to overcome the rest of that.

To be honest he was uninteresting and boring in NXT. Everyone else that came over is doing their NXT act and it’s working for the most part. He’s doing his NXT act and it’s makes for a good time to check facebook or OKP.
2533062, Exactly...
Posted by Selassie I God, Tue Apr-19-16 09:54 AM

>The issue with Crews here is…. Crews.
>
>Honestly, he’s corny. This presentation is boring. Precious,
>even. It’s plain yogurt. It’s not even vanilla. It’s too
>goody two shoes. It’s Rocky Maivia….without the charisma.
>
>
>He just stands there and smiles on that turnbuckle.
>
2533209, He needs to find his thing
Posted by Y2Flound, Tue Apr-19-16 08:31 PM
I think the Rocky Maivia thing is a fair comparison.

I think he has all of the tools, but right now they are hoping he can just be a black megastar by smiling and doing some flips.

A heel turn down the road and some time to shine will get people loving him in a year.

We're too fast to get sick of someone or want someone to be great in this era and forget how long it took some of the all time greats to get there in the pre internet era.

Saw a great comparison about how Taker pretty much toiled in the midcard for 7 or 8 years after a brief title run early before he finally rose to the top. People forget that when they complain Wyatt isn't the man yet and compare him to what Taker is.
2533232, RE: He needs to find his thing
Posted by jimaveli, Wed Apr-20-16 07:27 AM
>I think the Rocky Maivia thing is a fair comparison.
>
>I think he has all of the tools, but right now they are hoping
>he can just be a black megastar by smiling and doing some
>flips.
>
>A heel turn down the road and some time to shine will get
>people loving him in a year.
>
>We're too fast to get sick of someone or want someone to be
>great in this era and forget how long it took some of the all
>time greats to get there in the pre internet era.
>
>Saw a great comparison about how Taker pretty much toiled in
>the midcard for 7 or 8 years after a brief title run early
>before he finally rose to the top. People forget that when
>they complain Wyatt isn't the man yet and compare him to what
>Taker is.

Right. Don't start me up on Taker. The innanet swore that he sucked for most of the 90s. Then folks started falling off of cells and wwe started counting up all his mania wins AND he missed a year with an injury AND he turned into BikerTaker AND he stopped being latched to every big stiff Vince wanted for the whole year AND...you get it...wwe basically revised/condensed his history, folks bought it, and his longevity started to matter beyond the bad stuff he'd been in on. Once folks started getting over their love affair with every rassler under 6 feet (sorry Malenko) + hating every big who wasn't Vader (moonsaults), the fact that Taker was obviously a capable as hell big started to shine.

Outside of Kurt Angle, most guys don't show up and catch fire. And even with Kurt, his sweet spot was a bit after. Angle Slam had a gang of hate early on.

Apollo has a shot as long as wwe doesn't give up on him and he can grow into something other than 'just' smiling strong black dude + flips. When he works with Neville, I'm gonna enjoy it even if he's still 'just' what he is now.
2533031, maybe, but NXT's sink or swim approach
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Apr-19-16 08:22 AM
turns up something when I don't expect it to pretty often. just takes the right feud to unlock it sometimes.
2533061, He was pretty boring in NXT too though.
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-19-16 09:51 AM
His act is pretty much identical. Personally it didn't work for me there either.

I mean the guy is clearly talented, but he's not showing any thing to get excited about.
2533117, I agree...
Posted by Af-1, Tue Apr-19-16 12:44 PM
He's having a slow introduction - but the feuds will come soon and we'll see a more rounded character as a result.
2532988, RE: They shoulda left Apollo Crews in NXT for at least 6 more months
Posted by jimaveli, Mon Apr-18-16 11:53 PM
>He was doing fine, just had some stuff to iron out, but he'll
>never get over like this.

This could all be a headfake for what his real thing will be. Or maybe he's just filling Neville's role for now and he IS doomed unless he eats some booty-o's or somehow attaches himself to something that is working. It'll be interesting to see how his first 'real' matches go.

These post-Mania shows are crazy to me. I'm enjoying them quite a bit. Shane is still on the scene and I keep waiting for something to happen with that. But I'm done with hating on it...it's obviously a silly thing but whatever...the zoomed out direction is what folks tend to ask for...new faces in important places all through the card. If they get this right enough that a chunk of these guys get/stay over and folks stay healthy, we could be staring in the face of 2-5 absurdly good manias over the next years. They're gonna make me go to another one without the 25 to 32-type gap.

A chunk of new Japan and ROH's recent history are all up on the scene. It's like another invasion but they are actually getting time and effort to get them over. Whaaaaaat? Crazy. This backlash ppv looks like it's gonna be a fun wrestling show. And nxt is still nxt...midsouth rasslin with wwe production aka my kind of rasslin.

I'm already looking forward to the summertime when some old faces show up and have to get mixed into this 'new' thing. And Reigns is catchin them boos and existing with them. I love the creep towards villain-hood. And it's lining up to be the Bret Hart 'I think I'm right..if you don't see it, that's a you problem' type of heel, a favorite of mine. Obviously the kid ain't Bret but it could work.

I wonder what Brock's situation is. There was something out there about dude being out of days for some period of time? By God Rollins having anything to do with this AJ thing would likely make my head explode.
2533070, I think this is the best run of Raws in forever
Posted by Tiger Woods, Tue Apr-19-16 10:08 AM
fresh faces and inspired creative = shocking how effective it can make pro wrestling.

For example, the exit out of the segment with Styles and Reigns was kind of clumsy because of how it was edited. And, of course, Reigns no sold the attack like he always does. But him saying "last week my cousins, now me..." CONTINUITY!!! It DOES make sense! Those guys DID beat your family up last week and then jump you this week! You SHOULD be aggravated!

These shows have been fantastic. I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop when Steph and Hunter to return.
2533069, they need to roll him into a faction
Posted by Tiger Woods, Tue Apr-19-16 10:06 AM
not a tag team
2533230, Anyone else expecting Anderson & Gallows to cost AJ the title?
Posted by Af-1, Wed Apr-20-16 07:08 AM
2533239, this is what I think...well just me fantasy booking at least
Posted by MaxPtah, Wed Apr-20-16 08:14 AM
They'll continue the attacks (and soon have a six man tag match somewhere) and keep making AJ look like the leader and the man pulling the strings. They help him win the title further cementing he's the mastermind and he keeps telling the truth that he's not. Then July rolls around Balor comes up and starts a feud with AJ leading up to Summerslam for the belt. Gallows and Anderson comes out at the end of the match and Styles, this time, kinda wants their help, but instead they turn on him and help Balor get the win and belt. The next night on RAW Balor reveals he was the mastermind behind all of this with the blessings from The Authority (but hopefully Steph or HHH won't come out and run their mouths about it. They just play the back on this one.)
2533245, Yes, the reveal of Balor as leader is perfect...
Posted by Af-1, Wed Apr-20-16 08:31 AM
He's still NXT champ though so not readily available to jump straight in here. Interesting to see how this plays out.
2533242, yeah, an AJ heel turn doesn't make sense right now
Posted by pretentious username, Wed Apr-20-16 08:18 AM
and they're gonna want to keep him looking strong while increasing the heat on reigns.
2533246, RE: yeah, an AJ heel turn doesn't make sense right now
Posted by Af-1, Wed Apr-20-16 08:32 AM
Was also hoping this would result in the big Reigns heel turn but don't suppose that both these things can happen.
2533307, man if Anderson and Gallows worked for Reigns??? wooo
Posted by Tiger Woods, Wed Apr-20-16 11:39 AM
If Reigns deliberately took an ass kicking just to swerve everyone, and it's revealed that HE brought them in as heaters? Boy he'd be as good as heel as you could ever ask for.
2533311, there's a lot of pieces up in the air that makes things interesting
Posted by Tiger Woods, Wed Apr-20-16 11:58 AM
How long does Shane get to party?
Where are Vince/Stephanie/Hunter?
Who sent the Bullet Club?
How long does Reigns try to go this alone?

To even begin brainstorming through this gives their creative team way more credit than they've earned in recent years, but you can pretty easily see a fun "Civil War" kind of scenario pitting Shane's WWE against Hunter/Steph's. A disgruntled Owens makes perfect sense as a hired hand for the Authority. Maybe Hunter sent the Bullet Club to sabotage Styles, a guy who after all only got this chance because of Shane. Then there's the intrigue of John Cena and Seth Rollins - who do they side with?

(SHIELD vs BULLET CLUB??? Stop. Stop. You know this won't happen.)

Again, there's no way they're good enough to plot some massive multi-layered program like this, but it could be so great. Coming off of a Wrestlemania that was far too reliant on stars of yesteryear, the program the last few weeks seems surprisingly fresh and has left ample reason to get excited.

I think that it all just seems too surreal for there to not be a pay off. Think about this a minute - AJ Styles and the Bullet Club are involved in a major program with the WWE champion and we don't know why. Shane McMahon is a welcome addition to the character roster after having been gone almost a decade. Surely the grand reveal to all of this will be clumsy and not what we want, but there must be reasons for all of this.
2533322, RAW breaks record low rating (meltzer swipe)
Posted by Flash80, Wed Apr-20-16 12:39 PM
Going against the NBA playoffs and with a taped show, Raw last night broke a new record for the least watched episode on its regular night outside of football season with 3.32 million viewers.

The show fell victim to a big third hour drop which led to it falling below the previous low mark set on 2/1 at 3.37 million viewers.

Dancing with the Stars, featuring UFC's Paige VanZant, also had a big drop to 10.95 million viewers.

There were a number of shows during football season last year, as well as the 1/11 show against the college football championship game, that did lower numbers than Raw.

Raw was still the second highest rated show on cable, beating the NBA game on TBS that went head-to-head and did 3.21 million viewers, but falling behind the Warriors-Rockets late game that did 4.42 million viewers.

Keep in mind that the actual viewers of both games would be significantly higher if you included the local market broadcasts of each game.

The seasonal pattern of people tuning in late that comes after Daylight Savings time was in effect, but the pattern that the third hour doesn't drop as much during that season was not. The first two hours were in the same range as last week, so the record low was entirely due to the big third hour drop.

The three hours were:

8 p.m. 3.49 million viewers
9 p.m. 3.54 million viewers
10 p.m. 2.98 million viewers
2533351, who cares? Really who cares.
Posted by Tiger Woods, Wed Apr-20-16 01:26 PM
The show does what it does. It's still the most watched show on the network and I'm sure their DVR numbers are healthy. This can't be an indictment of Reigns or no star power or whatever. This is a symptom of years of bad creative.
2533359, it builds the case to go back to a two-hour RAW, bro
Posted by Flash80, Wed Apr-20-16 01:41 PM
creatively, less would be more, particular with this roster.

having to stretch talent to a third hour is why we get the same weekly 50/50 matches (owens vs. styles) that should be strictly happening on PPV's.

now if USA network will actually make the change... i don't know.
2533381, Hunter hinted that the 3rd hour is all USA
Posted by pretentious username, Wed Apr-20-16 02:11 PM

>now if USA network will actually make the change... i don't
>know.

Idk how Vince feels but Hunter said he'd get rid of it if he could. USA cares little about the quality of the program because whatever reality show rerun they replace it with wouldn't compete.
2533736, RE: Hunter hinted that the 3rd hour is all USA
Posted by Flash80, Thu Apr-21-16 06:47 PM
>
>>now if USA network will actually make the change... i don't
>>know.
>
>Idk how Vince feels but Hunter said he'd get rid of it if he
>could. USA cares little about the quality of the program
>because whatever reality show rerun they replace it with
>wouldn't compete.

i feel like hunter, if he i) removed himself and wifey from the booking and ii) wasn't at the mercy of vince's ultimate oversight, could right the ship.

all big if's though.

i'm pretty sure his kliq buddies are in his ear with ideas. and from all accounts, scott hall for sure has an incredibly creative mind for the business, and his shoot interviews pretty much confirm it.

i gained more respect for triple h when i read that he doesn't like kevin dunn.

2533383, Because Vince skews all data to fit his preconcieved notions
Posted by Cold Truth, Wed Apr-20-16 02:15 PM
Information that comes out persistently suggests that Vince interprets everything in favor of his natural inclinations.

If the youth movement generates low ratings, he may scrap the youth movement.

If guys like Owens and Zayn are heavily featured on a show that doesn’t draw, Vince will likely blame them. Case in point, that seemed to be a consistent issue with Daniel Bryan. I repeatedly read reports that he drew low quarter hours and whatnot.

If there’s no Authority and the ratings drop? Vince thinks people are tuning out because Doofus wasn’t there to talk for 20 minutes and his little girl wasn’t around to sufficiently emasculate the talent.
Vince tends to keep these guys on a rather short leash. The only time Vince seems to stay the course is with guys that fit his predilections. Otherwise, there’s minimal discipline.

So yes, these low ratings are a byproduct of years of poor creative. *We* know that but Vince looks at that data differently. The most likely scenario here is that Vince pulls back on the youth movement in favor of the old guard. Where the Authority has been scheduled to go away for awhile, Vince might well choose to bring them back. A major defense mechanism here has been the steadfast notion that ratings don’t really matter anymore. Though, again, they seem to matter when it comes to certain guys and their inability to draw during their quarter hour.

Vince is the king of the self-fulfilling prophecy and possesses a Reality Distortion Field that would be the envy of Steve Jobs himself so while we know why the ratings are the way they are, Vince most likely sees it differently and this string of quality Raw shows may come to a screeching halt in favor of more Authority, Kane, Big Show and the like.
2533522, So long, Chyna. RIP to a true legend and pioneer.
Posted by Cold Truth, Wed Apr-20-16 11:52 PM
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/700481-update-chynas-manager-confirms-the-former-wwe-star-was-found-dead-in-her-home-more-details
2533528, Sad to hear the news...
Posted by Af-1, Thu Apr-21-16 02:53 AM
Real shame things went the way they did for her.
2533542, HOF??
Posted by Ceej, Thu Apr-21-16 07:57 AM
2533688, Sadly, her death was her only way in
Posted by Y2Flound, Thu Apr-21-16 02:24 PM
They had no interest in dealing with her and inducting her
2533689, ^^^^^^
Posted by pretentious username, Thu Apr-21-16 02:34 PM
she'll get in now but Hunter made it clear earlier this year she wouldn't have otherwise.
2533533, Another sad but not surprising death
Posted by Y2Flound, Thu Apr-21-16 06:18 AM
Young death is never a celebration for someone who wasn't a terrible person, but it just goes on the list of Yup I can see how that happened.

Definitely a legend though, probably when I realized as a child that there are women who can beat me up.
2533545, rip. hate to say it but im not surprised.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Thu Apr-21-16 08:00 AM
2533548, People use "legend" and "pioneer" too much, but...
Posted by TheAlbionist, Thu Apr-21-16 08:25 AM
Chyna was a certified pioneer and a bonafide legend (c) Enzo

So sad how the last ~15 years of her life went... she made some spectacularly bad decisions, but the way she was black-balled from the 'E was horrific especially when compared to the shit male wrestlers from the same period got mixed up in but welcomed back with open arms.

Can't say nobody saw this coming - and that includes Stephanie's Twitter-tribute-writing ass.
2533597, RE: People use "legend" and "pioneer" too much, but...
Posted by MaxPtah, Thu Apr-21-16 09:48 AM
>Can't say nobody saw this coming - and that includes
>Stephanie's Twitter-tribute-writing ass.

Yeah, I don't know if it's just me, but that tweet just didn't seem "genuine". I feel like they should stay away from tv for a while. I got a feeling if they come, out a chant of "YOU KILLED CHYNA!!!" may erupt.
2533605, she was WILDLY popular
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Apr-21-16 10:10 AM
When everyone makes mention of the Attitude Era, the guys the WWE wants you to know about in order are

1. Austin
2. Rock
3. Triple H
4. Undertaker
5. Mick Foley
6. maybe Jericho

And that's all fine and, as far as contributions go, is mostly accurate. But this was their most mainstream period since the late 80s, and after Austin and Rock their most visible star was Chyna. They sent three people to Nascar races and magazine cover shoots and late night talk shows and they were Austin and Rock and Chyna.

She was hugely important. A toxic mix of Stephanie and Hunter's marriage and Chyna's really awful post-WWE behavior led to her being blacklisted. Even though, for example, X-Pac was in one of Chyna's pornos and Nash is in hours of Youtube clips laughing about his former Soma abuse and they trot those guys out every March.
2533617, RE: she was WILDLY popular
Posted by jimaveli, Thu Apr-21-16 10:20 AM
>When everyone makes mention of the Attitude Era, the guys the
>WWE wants you to know about in order are
>
>1. Austin
>2. Rock
>3. Triple H
>4. Undertaker
>5. Mick Foley
>6. maybe Jericho
>

I struggle with this. In my older mind, Foley might need to be 3rd at the lowest since he pretty much finished himself in the process of helping the first four get legendary...even Taker, who really had a collection of blah situations going before folks started falling off of cages.

>And that's all fine and, as far as contributions go, is mostly
>accurate. But this was their most mainstream period since the
>late 80s, and after Austin and Rock their most visible star
>was Chyna. They sent three people to Nascar races and magazine
>cover shoots and late night talk shows and they were Austin
>and Rock and Chyna.
>
>She was hugely important. A toxic mix of Stephanie and
>Hunter's marriage and Chyna's really awful post-WWE behavior
>led to her being blacklisted. Even though, for example, X-Pac
>was in one of Chyna's pornos and Nash is in hours of Youtube
>clips laughing about his former Soma abuse and they trot those
>guys out every March.

That ism is out there for women too.

We don't truly know what the E did to try to sneak around and help her out. We can all likely agree that she specifically 'wanted and needed' the welcome back part of the deal.
2533620, RE: she was WILDLY popular
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Apr-21-16 10:25 AM
>>When everyone makes mention of the Attitude Era, the guys
>the
>>WWE wants you to know about in order are
>>
>>1. Austin
>>2. Rock
>>3. Triple H
>>4. Undertaker
>>5. Mick Foley
>>6. maybe Jericho
>>
>
>I struggle with this. In my older mind, Foley might need to be
>3rd at the lowest since he pretty much finished himself in the
>process of helping the first four get legendary...even Taker,
>who really had a collection of blah situations going before
>folks started falling off of cages.

yea it's certainly up for debate, I just think this is how the WWE wants you to believe it - Austin got them there, Rock kept them there, Triple H because THIS BUSINESS, and Undertaker because even more of THIS BUSINESS.
2533636, RE: she was WILDLY popular
Posted by jimaveli, Thu Apr-21-16 10:57 AM
>>>When everyone makes mention of the Attitude Era, the guys
>>the
>>>WWE wants you to know about in order are
>>>
>>>1. Austin
>>>2. Rock
>>>3. Triple H
>>>4. Undertaker
>>>5. Mick Foley
>>>6. maybe Jericho
>>>
>>
>>I struggle with this. In my older mind, Foley might need to
>be
>>3rd at the lowest since he pretty much finished himself in
>the
>>process of helping the first four get legendary...even
>Taker,
>>who really had a collection of blah situations going before
>>folks started falling off of cages.
>
>yea it's certainly up for debate, I just think this is how the
>WWE wants you to believe it - Austin got them there, Rock kept
>them there, Triple H because THIS BUSINESS, and Undertaker
>because even more of THIS BUSINESS.

Haha...longevity tends to = mo' love.

It IS pretty crazy that Jericho has tipped into the range after so much crying about his situation earlier on. But again...that longevity mixed with some leaving and coming back helps him out so much.
2533826, That’s a huge false equivalency re: Nash/Pac
Posted by Cold Truth, Fri Apr-22-16 02:26 PM
One massive difference? Chyna has accused Xpac of RAPE and HHH of domestic abuse.

There’s a massive difference between the issues between WWE and other wrestlers and the intimate, personal dynamic between Hunter & Steph and Joanie. The internet fans should know better than to keep trotting out this false equivalency because nobody should know better than them, yet here we are.

Pretty much everyone who knew Chyna, including no less a respected voice than Good Ol JR himself, has spoken about how difficult it is to deal with her and one continuing thread is at how unstable she is. In fact, JR recently pointed out that Chyna’s departure wasn’t simply matter of Chyna getting the boot by Hunter & Steph but largely due to the way she acted in the aftermath. SHE was unable to hold it together.

Also, guys like Nash and Pac haven’t been a threat to cause a scene at every conceivable turn. Chyna hit up Hunter at Piper’s funeral- an event she wasn’t even invited to, to my knowledge- and did recently some documentary where she showed up at WWE headquarters for a chat.
Why would they want to continue a professional relationship with someone who consistently exhibited highly unprofessional behavior in her interactions with them? Why would they want to continue a professional relationship with someone who made some very serious allegations against one of their biggest and most highly visible executives, to say nothing of the, yes, again in all caps, RAPE allegations to one of his closest friends?

Citing Nash talking about SOMA’s and Pac being in one of those porn videos as examples of people they maintain a relationship with in contrast to their refusal to deal with her leaves out a lot of critical context. Everyone in their right mind kept her at arms length for a reason. It’s sad, but that’s the truth. She’s not in the WWE HOF and they kept their distance for reasons that lie mostly in her own actions and persistent instability.
2533744, yeah she turned heads for the "amazon" factor
Posted by Flash80, Thu Apr-21-16 07:21 PM
pretty sure vince slapped that label on her too. 9th wonder of the world, etc.

in her interviews post-wwe, she always seemed so tortured. i think the surgeries and struggle to look more feminine really messed her up mentally.
2533759, NXT spoilers from house show in Lowell, MA
Posted by Oak27, Thu Apr-21-16 09:59 PM
Samoa Joe def. Finn Balor to win NXT Championship.

Looks like we'll be seeing Balor at Payback.
2533787, wonder why they waited
Posted by Tiger Woods, Fri Apr-22-16 08:55 AM
but imagine having been there last night for it
2533788, probably to sell the house shows
Posted by pretentious username, Fri Apr-22-16 09:09 AM
not that they need the help, but if there's an "anything can happen" feel to them that's even better. a few of my friends were there. place went ballistic.
2533792, I was there and had read a rumor it was going to happen
Posted by Oak27, Fri Apr-22-16 09:25 AM
based on how much they were mentioning the specific show and that match the night before on NXT.

I imagine they at least didn't do it at Takeover to keep Balor's undefeated record as "the demon" alive.
2533800, I think there a few reasons behind it
Posted by Y2Flound, Fri Apr-22-16 10:44 AM
NXT DAllas didn't want to have every title change hands

The Demon stays undefeated and something you can push for his big matches

Finn looks great in his last match on TV before his call up which you assume is coming.

I love the anything can happen at anytime feel and NXT doesn't really need the ratings and things that come with saving these for the big events.
2533760, wooooooooooooow edge of your seat drama
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Thu Apr-21-16 10:07 PM
that mil/matanza match was so dramatic. especially when they went...

dario running things on a high level. he's almost always gets the W in his office conversations with people. you can tell that dude enjoys being in this shit cause he is 1000% committed to that role. dario's legit one of the best character on tv from an entertainment standpoint.

the disciple(s) of death!!!

edit: that aerostar botch made the match even better actually. just kind of rolled it into the story of the match.
2533801, what a perfect way to get rid of a boring team, huh?
Posted by pretentious username, Fri Apr-22-16 10:53 AM

>
>the disciple(s) of death!!!
>

not to mention the surviving member looks legit in 2 seconds.
2534105, Yeah, that was SUCH a good cutscene
Posted by TheAlbionist, Mon Apr-25-16 04:54 AM
>
>>
>>the disciple(s) of death!!!
>>
>
>not to mention the surviving member looks legit in 2 seconds.

The team has run its course and stopped being seen as a threat - Katrina's given them warning after warning then finally one of them steps up, rips the hearts out and eats the fucking SOULS of the other two.

I hope he's on a wave of destruction in his next match.
2534521, yeah i thought she was gonna have Mil consume them
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Tue Apr-26-16 05:54 PM
after that last L. this is very cool too though.
2533829, Finn Balor: "See you all on Monday"
Posted by MaxPtah, Fri Apr-22-16 03:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsMxB07pGzk
2533837, which probably means you won't? Maybe at Payback tho...
Posted by Tiger Woods, Fri Apr-22-16 03:49 PM
With him leaving, that NXT cupboard is looking pretty bare save for Joe and Nakamura in the singles ranks. But hell, a Joe v Nakamura main event in Brooklyn would easily steal Summerslam weekend.
2533844, Don't forget the cruiserweight tourney is coming soon though
Posted by pretentious username, Fri Apr-22-16 05:15 PM
There will be some big names coming over and they can always put more of an emphasis on the tag division.
2533870, They'll keep developing new stars
Posted by Y2Flound, Fri Apr-22-16 07:49 PM
The last year they pretty much signed a ton of indy darlings and rode them until being way further along as a deveopmental league than they really were.

It may take a bit of a dip in how good it is for a while, but hopefully it will let them give a ton of shine to some of the people they've bee developing off TV for a while. Some will suck, some will need a few repackagings, but in the end hopefully they still put some great talent out after a bit of a lull.
2533851, Regarding TV ratings...
Posted by wallysmith, Fri Apr-22-16 06:24 PM
I'm cautiously optimistic that these dips won't affect the product too much, like they have in the past. Now that the Network is doing better ,they've gotta have tons of data right? Anecdotal, but I know for me and my friends like 95% of the time we're on the Network is for PPV and NXT, that's it.

It would make sense why they're bringing so much NXT talent up so quickly, why Balor is coming soon, why Owens is like a main event fixture now.

It would make sense to leverage the Network data to drive the storylines since that's the in-house revenue stream. If those numbers keep rising then it makes sense to keep the main roster on this trajectory.
2534177, "Holy Shit, I can't believe I was at this Indie Show" roll-call
Posted by Tiger Woods, Mon Apr-25-16 11:56 AM
surely a few of you have been to a show like this?

ROH Tradition Continues 10/16/03
I witnessed this card live with a crowd of about 50 people in the building, I think it was a Tuesday night too wtf

http://www.rohwrestling.com/content/2003-ring-honor-results

card included:

Justin Credible vs Raven
AJ Styles vs CM Punk
Samoe Joe vs Jay Briscoe
(^^^until my 2nd ROH show this was the best match I ever saw in person, it had to have been an hour)