http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=dragigo01&y2=2015&p2=knighbr03&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=


Knight is better in the advanced stats

Knight is much, much younger

So who is better at the game of basketball?

I just want plea cops and excuses

I also want an argument for why Dragic is discussing
the max. This means Knight gets the max too, right?

Honest questions.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

teams are looking at what he did last year.


I don't think he's a 20 mil a year pg tho.

>teams are looking at what he did last year.

You mean the one outlier year? He had 10 WS last
year, and never had more than 5.7 any other year.

So why don't we think that THIS year is his norm and
last year the outlier?


Honest question.


>I don't think he's a 20 mil a year pg tho.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>So why don't we think that THIS year is his norm and
>last year the outlier?

Because that's what all NBA 3rd team said and its
associated argument that last year was his norm.


Give him the ball, and he's better than Kyrie or John
Wall.


Okay, you're on record.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

It won't help, though, especially because Korver and
Dragic are like, the opposite basketball player.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Context, it do matter.

It's also why the pro Dragic crowds are kings of the cyse. Ooooo, look at the pretty numbers. Ooooo, blame the lack of W/L impact for those pretty numbers on a terrible supporting cast that isn't actually terrible. Oooo, ignore the fact that if Dragic were as good as last year's numbers suggested, the Suns should've made the playoffs.

Dragic a very good point guard in a league filled with very good point guards. he's probably top ten. he's not top five. knight probably has had a better season, and i don't see any reason why a team couldn't legitimately prefer knight as a long-term solution.

I like the new non-academic Bshellys

Just as white and cuddly, not nearly as pretentious



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

but post trade and pre bosh announcement, people were talking about the heat as titles contenders. FOH. dragic's advanced stats are exactly like korvers, in the sense that they inflate his true worth as a player because they came in the absolute perfect situation. anyone who banks on dragic or korver to repeat these levels of production in a different situation is going to be disappointed.

Because that's the only thing that matters here.

If the analytics crowd doesn't explicitly say that they
upgraded, they are full of shit.

Period.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>Ooooo, look at the pretty numbers. Ooooo, blame the lack of
>W/L impact for those pretty numbers on a terrible supporting
>cast that isn't actually terrible. Oooo, ignore the fact that
>if Dragic were as good as last year's numbers suggested, the
>Suns should've made the playoffs.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/SubMarcosHorseFromAfar.jpg

My man has a slow day at work and he wants to have some fun and you guys let him do this to you every time cause yall are too scared/tired to get into it with him. You pussyfoot around some arguments that agree with what he's saying for the most part.

OE still rolling out analytics arguments to fight Guiness' ghost. Yes Rex, there is nobody on this board that agrees with the fundamentalist analytics approach guinny took--not even close.


Ayhow. I dont see how this is an analytics argument. Dragic isnt an analytics darling. Are there analytics articles written about him like that?

I mean Miami the team that traded for him and has first option to sign him for the max this summer is one of the non-analytics teams because Riles is in the front office.

The other top 2 rumored teams that want to throw a max at Dragic this summer are the Lakers (No analytics dept) and Knicks (they may have just started their analytics team in the past 2 years but cant remember).

At most this should be a white/race post.

Dragic is able to "command" the max because he was 3rd team ALL NBA last season in a league full of pgs, thats phenomenal stuff--until you consider he probably won that award because well, he's white.

i'm so confused. analytics tell you the two aren't far apart so sign whoever is cheaper. it's Pat Riley and traditional journos talking max contracts.

but everydecent player on the market will get a max or so because the cap is about to explode. so....
-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

Because according to analytics, they got a younger, upward
trending player


If someone can explain this to me, I'd be good and happy


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

And not one of race?


There was a poll made last week by Cenario last week and if I remember correctly most people who voted on this board had dragic rated higher than knight-- and they weren't "analytics" guys.

Brandon knight developed a bad rep prior to this season- justified or not.
This has t even been one full season that he's been good.

I give people a chance.


Now if niggas keep copping pleas?


http://tinyurl.com/ofnkavr



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

http://tinyurl.com/ofnkavr


But I give the world a chance first

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

People only watch us for Giannis highlights
____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on

http://tinyurl.com/c77bx48


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>My man has a slow day at work and he wants to have some fun
>and you guys let him do this to you every time cause yall are
>too scared/tired to get into it with him. You pussyfoot around
>some arguments that agree with what he's saying for the most
>part.

yeah, nobody ever gets into it with O_E on here.


>At most this should be a white/race post.
>
>Dragic is able to "command" the max because he was 3rd team
>ALL NBA last season in a league full of pgs, thats phenomenal
>stuff--until you consider he probably won that award because
>well, he's white.

LOL - Dragic won that because he was stellar last year. if anything he should've been 2nd Team All-NBA.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

younger and trending up. dragic is what dragic is--a good, not great star. knight is now about that level (though his offense isn'y dragic level yet) and could continue to get better. He might be the next Kyle Lowry--getting hated on and then suddenly, people give him a chance and he's good (Lowry was always a dragic level offensive bonus to his team).

but that's the analytics side. analytics would basically tell you from a cursory look that the correct answer is whichever is cheaper is probably the one you should sign as they're not very unequal. and, all things considered, go with the younger guy when in doubt.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

and 40% lower than it was last season.

I remember analytics hated Carmelo's high usage rate,
said that truly efficient scorers don't need that high
a usage rate

Like Harden -- he actually had a higher WS/48 his last
year in OKC than he did his first two in Houston (he's
killing this year, though)

Now we're copping pleas for Brandon Knight having BOTH a higher
usage rate AND being more efficient?

LOL. It just means he's doing more is more efficient
in doing more

especially with PG's, since a PG needs to ball in his hands. Dragic is less effective than last season because he has fewer opportunities.

>especially with PG's, since a PG needs to ball in his hands.
>Dragic is less effective than last season because he has fewer
>opportunities.

So there.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

happy with what John and E-Bled got. But if they talking about giving Dragic 20 per yr which is what I've been hearing than I got problems.

Again, in the right situation that could be a good deal. But him at 15 where he is the primary ball handler?
____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on

Dragic is gonna look like, well every other year of Dragic with Whiteside and what's left of Wade
____________________

<================== Learn the name now before everyone gets dunked on

justified or not he'll get 9-13 mill.

But I was one of the people who ranked Knight ahead of Dragic in that other post, so maybe I'm not the person to ask.

Dragic was 3rd team all nba last year.
I know some voters had him as high as 2nd team.

This year with the addition of Isaiah Thomas,
he was getting the ball 40% less.

He finishes at the rim at the rate of like Lebron.
And though 28, came into league same year as Westbrook,
has 4000 less minutes on his legs... So he's a really
young 28.

Knight has caught flack for that game winning missed layup
and actually trying when DeAndre Jordan jumped in the air
to dunk the ball... but he's done nothing but improve his game.

That being said, I like Dragic more. While he is a scoring PG,
he's shown a knack for getting in the lane and finding open shooters,
and when he does look for his shot when in the lane, he finishes.

Russy Westbrook didn't make any of the teams last year.

Neither did Kyrie Irving.

Neither did John Wall.

All three are unquestionably better than Dragic,
and by a significant amount.

I need convincing that he's better than Mike Conley.

Hell, he's closer to Ty Lawson than he is the Top 5.



>Dragic was 3rd team all nba last year.
>I know some voters had him as high as 2nd team.

He's no better than the 8th best point guard in the
league, at his absolute best.

And he's not even close to top 10 THIS season.


So all this "Third team" shit from last year is LOL



>This year with the addition of Isaiah Thomas,
>he was getting the ball 40% less.

>He finishes at the rim at the rate of like Lebron.
>And though 28, came into league same year as Westbrook,
>has 4000 less minutes on his legs... So he's a really
>young 28.

LOL -- he was playing basketball before that. He didn't
START playing when he got drafted. He's 28 years old.

>Knight has caught flack for that game winning missed layup
>and actually trying when DeAndre Jordan jumped in the air
>to dunk the ball... but he's done nothing but improve his
>game.


Translation: Knight is about as good at 23 as Dragic is
about 28. And much better by advanced analytics.


>That being said, I like Dragic more. While he is a scoring
>PG,
>he's shown a knack for getting in the lane and finding open
>shooters,
>and when he does look for his shot when in the lane, he
>finishes.

He might be better today. Analytics doesn't demonstrate that.

And he's five years older.

>Russy Westbrook didn't make any of the teams last year
>
>Neither did Kyrie Irving.
>
>Neither did John Wall.
>
>All three are unquestionably better than Dragic,
>and by a significant amount.
>
>I need convincing that he's better than Mike Conley.
>
>Hell, he's closer to Ty Lawson than he is the Top 5.

Yes, they were.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

You said when Dragic gets the ball, he's superior
to Kyrie Irving and John Wall ( maybe Russell Westbrook).

That his greatness is so conditional proves my point,
however, that advanced stats aren't robust to fluctuations
is circumstance like Dragic from last year to this year,
and therefore, only tell you how good a player is in a given
situation, something we don't need advanced stats for.

Either that is true OR Dragic is a worse basketball player
this year, in which case the Suns ungraded by getting a
player superior by advanced stats measures.

You know I only enter arguments I can't lose these days. Niggas
ain't got time for that.

Westbrook missed half the season though, that's why he didn't make All-NBA last year.


>That his greatness is so conditional proves my point,
>however, that advanced stats aren't robust to fluctuations
>is circumstance like Dragic from last year to this year,
>and therefore, only tell you how good a player is in a given
>situation, something we don't need advanced stats for.
>
>Either that is true OR Dragic is a worse basketball player
>this year, in which case the Suns ungraded by getting a
>player superior by advanced stats measures.

it's not an either/or proposition. Dragic is a better basketball player right today, but Knight being 5 years younger and alot cheaper makes Knight a better asset for Phoenix.


>You know I only enter arguments I can't lose these days.
>Niggas
>ain't got time for that.

LOL

n/m


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

If you look at Steve Nash's pre-MVP career trajectory it was similar to Dragic's expect Nash played on a contender once he became a full-time starter & the point guard position wasn't as deep as it is today. Nash actually didn't make the All-Star or All-NBA team in his last season w/ the Mavs & actually got outplayed by Bibby in the playoffs. His usage rate also plummeted once Shimmy Walker/Jamison were brought in after Nash had successful played alongside Van Exel the previous season where he was All-NBA 3rd team. Nash was also a young 29 when he signed w/ the Suns thus Dragic still can have a 2nd career if he stay healthy.

On the other hand, Knight's career trajectory is similar to Jason Terry's early career as a Hawks as they are both jump-shooting combo guards who play PG b/c they don't have the size to check 2 guards. JET was eventually converted into a 6th man b/c he didn't have the floor vision to be a starter on a championship contender but was able to flourish as a 6th man b/c he was simply looked upon to provide a scoring punch rather than run the offense.

Dragic is not the playmaker that Nash was.

Knight is no worse a ball handler or playmaker than
many elite point guards who can score.

Nash was a backup to a HOF point guard in his first 2 seasons & he never stood out until he became a full-time starter in his 5th season just like Dragic. They also became All-NBA guards in their 6th season when they were both 27. Their careers started to diverge in their 7th season w/ the acquisition of Isaiah which affected Dragic's usage rate but Nash also suffered the same fate in the 8th season w/ the acquisition of Walker/Jamison. Nash redeemed himself in his 9th season but Dragic is still in his 8th season & got traded midseason.....so we'll see how Dragic fares next season. I'm not saying he's going to win the MVP but he could be an MVP candidate ala Lowry if the Heat are one of the top 2-3 teams the East ala the Raptors.

On the other hand, JET/BK are similar type of players & I've made the comparison in a previous poAst. Unless BK dramatically improves his playmaking skills I just don't see him an a starting PG for a contender unless he's playing w/ a point forward(Bron) or a ball dominant 2 guard (Harden). If you look at their early careers, JET actually had a higher assist rate than BK at the same point of their career & JET even averaged over 7 assists in his 4th season good for 6th in the entire league. You also have guys like Devin Harris who had similar playmaking skills & eventually became combo guards. The Suns basically traded for BK to be a combo guard as Bledsoe is the starting PG.

As far as their career trajectory, both BK/JET started their careers as starting PGs on mediocre teams & although productive they were both eventually traded away to another team who was looking to fill a void left by a former All-NBA guards. JET became a combo guard in his 3rd season w/ the Mavs while BK is basically going to be a combo guard as long as he's playing w/ Bledsoe.

Another thing JET/BK share:

JET: http://s3.amazonaws.com/br-cdn/temp_images/2013/10/25/LeBronTerryDunk.gif
vs.
BK: http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2300537/deandrethunderdunk.gif

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2421643&mesg_id=2421643&page=2#2422924

This is why advanced stats are a joke.

They only work in some contexts and not others and therefore,
can never be used to make an entire argument.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

Its 2014...there are computers in glasses and people stunt after hitting the ball far. Get over it. -Cenario

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilariou

Lulllz

>They only work in some contexts and not others and therefore,
>can never be used to make an entire argument.
>

why are you still arguing with guinness when he hasn't posted in like 2 years?

>why are you still arguing with guinness when he hasn't posted
>in like 2 years?



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>They only work in some contexts and not others and therefore,
>can never be used to make an entire argument.


This was said multiple times in the last analytics post in which you were ranting and raving in


>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

So Haralbob Volgairs, noted NBA gambler, took to Twitter last night to complain that the Wolves were playing Wiggins 38 minutes in a game, because omg don't you know sports science has conclusively proved that playing minutes is bad?

I pointed out that minutes may not have the same negative impact in long term health for young players.

Haralbob: "tell me more, professor."

Me: a reply offering to build him models for a fee and a link to the wiki on logistic growth curves.

For some reason, he got silent.

But anyway, perfect example of how OE's trolltastic crusade is rooted in truth. In an effort to seem smart, people rely on fancy but flawed statistics, try to generalize results from a narrow study way too broadly, and numerous other things that any real quant person will tell you is a bad, bad idea. In the rush to accept advanced analysis (not just quant), we can't overlook the fundamental necessity to constantly validate our measures, results, etc.

And on the validation front, we have good reason to believe the impact of such analyses in basketball has been overstated. Yes, the Spurs won a title, and they used multiple advanced methodologies to gain an edge in player evaluation, coaching, etc. But Chuck was right that little of it matters if they don't draft Duncan, Parker, and Ginoblli in the pre analytics era, and Popp figured out pace and space well before analysis was sophisticated enough to influence the decision. memphis's success has almost nothing to do with Hollinger. Etc.

...or maybe bitchslapping a noted NBA personality made me feel warm and tingly and I wanted to brag about it.

THM and I were talking about how he cites analytics but he also knows the game of basketball.

If you can make what he's made off sports gambling youre doing something right.

lol i wonder why he stopped responding

he's made his own models which have paid him money.

http://www.businessinsider.com/sweat-in-the-game-a-gamblers-grind-in-the-nba-2011-4

So I called him on it and gave him a little snark back. Since I have to apparently spell it out, i wasn't actually trying to get a job. "Let me model that for you" is quant trash talk.

>So I called him on it and gave him a little snark back. Since
>I have to apparently spell it out, i wasn't actually trying to
>get a job. "Let me model that for you" is quant trash talk.

He uses analytics but also watches A LOT of basketball.


Why wasnt that filed under conventional wisdom is to not play guys so many minutes when youre on a losing team that has no chance to win.

Did he put in any stats or analytics to back up the minutes thing?


He was just ranting like he often does.

Three quick ones (one very similar to the argument you made)

i. As you said, young legs have less total damage, are further
from whatever(theoretical) mechanical breaking point that
we associate with aging and "decline." This is important if, as
many believe, aging is a non-linear process where wear and
tear happens faster the more wear and tear you have.

ii. Young legs recover faster. So not only is Wiggins far
removed from his decline breaking point, he is more likely to
revert back to "fully rested" mode.


iii. A key one: Wiggins is in a very important
cognitive-basketball developmental window, where repetition
is crucial, and so the minutes now, even if they do cost him
time at the end of the career (unlikely but possible), are probably
more important for defining the amplitude of his peak during his prime. Allowing him to work out the kinks now, learning how to be
a teammate, finding a position, etc is a better financial
investment in the long term.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

The big buzz is this paper on analytics for defense defense

http://grantland.com/features/department-of-defense/
(written by your boy Kirk)

Here's the actual paper:
On first flythrough I like the direction is going. For all the Offensive analytics out there, there's jack shit for defense which in nature is a lot less quantifable. The cool thing is with tracking data, a whole new data set is available to try to figure if anything useful can be made from it.

http://www.sloansportsconference.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/SSAC15-RP-Finalist-Counterpoints2.pdf

Here is the abstract:
Alexander Franks*, Andrew Miller*, Luke Bornn, and Kirk Goldsberry
Harvard University,
Cambridge, MA, 02138
Email: afranks@fas.harvard.edu, acm@seas.harvard.edu
*These authors contributed equally to this work.
Abstract
Due to the ease of recording points, assists, and related goal-scoring statistics, the vast majority of advanced
basketball metrics developed to date have focused on offensive production. It is straightforward to see who
scored the most points in the 1985/86 season (Alex English, with 2414) or took the most 3-point shots in
1991/92 (Vernon Maxwell, with 473). However, try to look up who had the most points against in
2013/14, or who prevented the most shots from being taken that year, and the history books are,
remarkably, empty. Thus we stand in a muddled state where offensive ability is naturally quantified with
numerous directly-measured numbers, yet we attempt to explain defensive ability through statistics only
loosely related to overall defensive ability, such as blocks and steals. Alternatively, we quote
regression-based metrics such as adjusted plus/minus which give no insight into how or why a player is
effective defensively. This paper bridges this gap, introducing a new suite of defensive metrics that aim to
progress the field of basketball analytics by enriching the measurement of defensive play. Our results
demonstrate that the combination of player tracking, statistical modeling, and visualization enable a far
richer characterization of defense than has previously been possible. Our method, when combined with
more traditional offensive statistics, provides a well-rounded summary of a player’s contribution to the final
outcome of a game.

but most prominently is the question of how in the world you separate an individual's 'defensive rating' or whatever it is from the team / system they play in. Like if you take Steve Nash from the D'Antoni Suns and just swap him straight up for Tony Parker on the equivalent Spurs, what happens to their ratings? If it's truly a measure of individual value, it should be relatively stable what happens to their ratings, right? But yeah, whole lot of questions besides that, although I do appreciate what they're attempting with their modeling...

http://www.blazinsports.com/the-pros-and-cons-of-chucks-least-favorite-subject/

I remember years back on here like four niggas wanted
me to write for magazines and blogs based on my PTP posts
and I declined, because talking about Tarantino isn't
worth the money

I like talking shit. I woof. That's how I was raised.
We feel something, we say something. I grew up with
older niggas calling me outside into the project courtyard
just to bag on my wrinkled jeans for 30-40 minutes

Its in my code

And I do analytics, but I'm not about to be breaking
arteries in my neck arguing about why Hollinger didn't
deserve to get that job

Its basically just saying that people in positions of power
don't know WTF they doing, and that white people make shit
up

There are no industries where that is not the case

None

So I'd rather do things my way

I am Elijah Muhammad, so I have to lead the people
my own way

Show them that clean glass of water, feel me


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

To me they are players of similar value in an all-things-equal situation and I find the max-ness of Dragic to be a little strange.

That said, Dragic is a UFA with more experience, whereas Knight is an RFA with less. Even if they both got the max, Knight would make less than Dragic.

Knight is going to get paid. Don't worry about him

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Some of the reasons for preferring Dragic were mentioned above, Dragic's breakout season was a whole year, Knight's still working on his best year and people don't really watch the Bucks.

But if we're looking for advanced stats what I see mentioned is how even with Knight putting up his best numbers this season the Bucks still score at a much better clip when he hits the bench. This year in about 1600 minutes on the court the Bucks score 103 points per 100 possessions, in about 1000 minutes with Knight sitting the Bucks score 110.7 points per 100 possessions. This has been the story for pretty much his whole career.

In Dragic's big year last year the Suns were a good offense when Dragic and Bledsoe were on the floor together, scored at a elite level when Dragic played and Bledsoe was out, and scored at Sixer's level of awful whenever Dragic sat. That has evened out this year for Dragic but the plea cop is that with Bledsoe healthy and Isaiah Thomas in the mix he doesn't get to control the offense as much.

So I think that's the basic analytical argument in favor of Dragic, both guys are ball-dominant, offensive-minded PG's but even in a breakout year Knight's team scores better when he's off the court.

Remember when Lance Stephenson had one of the best +/-
ratios in the league?

When your looking at on/off court numbers it grabs a lot of factors over which an individual has very little control (i.e. performance of teammates, what opposition is on the floor, etc.) so you can't just assume he's the problem.

But in this case it's not +/- (although I think I remember that Knight has generally fared pretty poorly in the advanced plus-minus stats as well) so much as team offensive efficiency, it's just the points his teams have scored divided by number of possessions the team has had with him on/off the court. Once you get a start to get a large enough sample size it does raise some questions.

If I'm a team looking at giving Knight an 8 figure per year extension and making him the PG of the near future I'd want to dig into the tape and try to figure out why, throughout his career, his teams score significantly better when he's not on the court.

>Remember when Lance Stephenson had one of the best +/-
>ratios in the league?

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2404262&mesg_id=2404262&listing_type=search#2404285

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Then again this whole "max salary" concept appears to elude you.

No All Star games. Doesn't lead a team to the playoffs. Not young. Discuss.

Everyone was like:

"He made All NBA 3rd Team"

LMAOOOO

So?



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I think a lot of answers have been given already. Nobody is stumping hard for Dragic, but obviously the market is ready to receive him with open arms, no?

Why was y'all loving Dragic so much?

Curious

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

even people who gave you explanations like cenario and myself were like "i wouldnt pay him $20M fucking dollars."

so like, where is the win here for you? against whom? goran dragic? cuz that motherfucker has $80M.

...

i.e., not being used properly.

NOPE! Rondo excuse.

show me a game where he has played better, 36 points on great shooting against a top team (granted without their stud PG). the only other time i saw him in that kinda zone was against the knicks when he was on milwaukee, and he was basically just hot from outside in that game.

i know you're like the all-seeing eye of kentucky shit. cool. good for you. no one else cares. nba @ 50, they didn't have one guy on the list, and 75 is looking iffy.

and NBA at 100 hits

We'll see.

Bledsoe, you there. Julius, you probably there. The fucking Kings...the Kings... You there.

Nigga stop.

like a bulls fan or a lakers fan or a rockets fan could say the same thing. a lot of us are just in the threads.

i don't like cal personally but as far as his players, whatever, i take em on a case by case basis. i like knight and cousins, actually, and mkg is one of the few philly guys doing anything in the nba right now.

but i dunno if you noticed but i dont like this agenda bullshit, especially when it's way outta hand. that's the reason we wind up arguing, that's the reason i wind up arguing with OE.

This is the world we live in.

There aren't Dragic fans here. This is more towards nerdy journalist who shit on BK and loved Goran.

that's like saying somebody grew up in orange county and it's not LA, actually that would be more sensible.

and don't worry i'm saying "mine" to anybody. that's dumb, just like making a thread to "nerdy journalist" (sic) that will never read it is dumb.

Lol... Good grief.

Point is, you do not watch him play, yet you talk as if you do watch him play.

A couple of days ago both he and Dragic were playing like trash or whatever your dumbass said.

All of a sudden, you try to say something nice?

Nah nigga, go that way.

That's how it works, when he looks average, he's average, when he plays well, he played well. Same as any player. You really think I give a fuck one way or another about this guy? Could not care less about him or Dragic. If anything I liked Knight coming out of college and I said he'd be better than Jennings when that swap was made.

You are so weird. How about this? I'll stop replying to your weird Kentucky PR posts and you can stay the fuck out of my face, too, you fucking weirdo.

This is how normal people respond to shit they don't care about:

The Major League off-season post.
I do not care until the Yankees get involved. Therefore I do not reply or add my 2 cents.

See... You keep yapping and being wrong.

having an opinion is not having an agenda. are you trying to tell me last game wasnt his best game of the year? do you mean to say he was playing at an all-star level before?

like, i get it, a minor slight to any kentucky offends your honor. do you like want to duel or something?

let me find out your ass didnt give even go to school there lol.

keep doing you, man, but jesus, this whole YOU DONT EVEN WATCH schtick is tired. if you watch the nba, you got league pass, you see guys. that's all. your watching obsessively hasn't seemed to inform your opinion much better, you're wrong about shit constantly. rather than being some weird, stalkery thing, i propose you just fucking relax.

You can't pretend you don't care and have an strong opinion on something.

18/5/41% was where he was when I made that statement. Only in your world is that an all-star level for a point guard in the western conference. And do you wanna know why I rode that stupid Kings post so hard? Because it exemplifies your insane propensity for Wildcat-related exaggeration, Mr. College of New Jersey alumnus.

And you're gonna pretend 18 & 5 and winning isn't enough t get to you in the conversation for All Star in a Tony Parker ish kinda way (6 time All Star btw)?

And are we gonna pretend that 18 & 5 is "pretty trashy" too?

Maybe there is just "All Star" & "pretty trashy" in your book. If so let me know.

Close to=qualifier that means nothing. Close to like five guys are ahead of him? Seven? Means nothing, what it means is is that he's not actually playing at an all-star level. And LOL @ using stats to compare to Tony Parker. Plenty of guys have T5T's numbers, because his minutes are generally controlled, but I never remember him shooting 41% or anything close. Come on, dude, "kind of trashy" is at least as close to right as "at or near an all star level." The difference is one is a passing comment, the other is a dissertation approaching ten days in length now.

You've been using all this time trying to justify your comment that he's been "pretty trashy" nobody would make the distinction.

Or we could just forget about this incredibly stupid, time-consuming argument.

I'm dying

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i made a tepid comment about knight's play and he has not shut the fuck up about it for a week.

the funny thing is dude is crying about it but if i said nothing he'd be like "OH WHEN HE BALLED AGAINST THE CLIPPERS YOU WERE GHOST"

the crap that goes on here is too stupid.

Ethan J. Skolnick: Miami Heat’s Goran Dragic not right, but arrival of family might help

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ethan-j-skolnick/article44622747.html#storylink=cpy

The Heat’s Goran Dragic, goes to the basket over the Jazz’s Raul Neto. Pedro Portal pportal@elnuevoherald.com
BY ETHAN J. SKOLNICK

This would be the night, the night Goran Dragic finally got right.

No Dwyane Wade with whom to take turns in the backcourt, because Wade was absent, attending to his injured son, Zion, in the hospital. No Rudy Gobert, or “Stifle Tower,” to protect the paint, for Utah. No experienced NBA point guard against him, with the Jazz starting Brazilian rookie Raul Neto, backed up by the relatively tiny Trey Burke.

But if we believed that, we were looking at the wrong place. We were looking at the roster, the lineup, the court. We should have been looking at his home.

That has been empty lately, empty as his stat sheet at times, empty as his eyes at others. And while it’s going too far to blame all of his struggles — struggles that continued through some stages of the Heat’s 92-91 victory — on his extended separation from his family, you should have seen those eyes when asked about his pending reunion with them this weekend.

Alight.

So maybe now, for Dragic, it will be all right.

“Really excited,” Dragic said. “Really excited. It’s going to be much easier, to go to practice, come back into a full house, I can talk with somebody. I still can talk with the players, but it’s not the same, you know.”

NOT MAKING EXCUSES

It’s not something he has discussed all that much, because he hasn’t wanted to make it sound like he’s making excuses. Many fans wouldn’t want to hear them, not from a franchise point guard, not from someone who just signed a five-year, $85 million contract.

But maybe if more knew. That his wife, Maja, had pregnancy complications this summer. That he hasn’t seen his daughter, Viktoria, since the day after she was born, since he left Slovenia for South Florida to train. That he’s watching his son, Mateo, now 2, grow up on FaceTime for the past three months.

“He says, ‘Hi Daddy,’ ” Dragic said of their FaceTime sessions. “Then he’s off to his races. Then he’s off to his toys.”

Maybe if they knew that, with Viktoria, too young to travel, Goran shopped for their new house himself, waiting for others to fill it.

“I mean, this is my job,” Dragic said. “I’m totally committed, focused. But sometimes ...”

He sighed.

“Sometimes, there’s too much distractions around,” he continued. “It’s tough to just forget about everything and play. Especially in the summer, with the baby, come here, looking for the house, and try to establish with the team. There’s a lot of things going on. But now, I’m at that point, where I made a cross on everything else, and the only thing I’m waiting for is my family, and then I can relax and just play.”

So maybe he will play better.

We know he can play better. Much better.

Two seasons ago with Phoenix, Dragic went a 25-game stretch without scoring fewer than 15 points. Yet he scored fewer than a dozen in six of his eight games entering Friday, and he needed four late free throws — on intentional clock-stopping fouls — just to get to 14 on Thursday.

He has been among the league’s most efficient guards the past two seasons, and yet has shot under 50 percent in six of his nine games.

“I like my shots,” Dragic said. “Just they need to fall in. Even this game, today was a little bit better. I’m getting good looks. Just need to work and try to get out of this shooting slump.”

It’s not just shooting, though. Sometimes, he’s looked cramped, bumping into teammates as if he’s trying to change into a tuxedo in an airplane lavatory. On Thursday, there was one sequence where he was uncharacteristically yelling at teammates to inbounds to him, then missed a jumper on the other end, then took an elbow for a charge.

NOT PLAYING FREE

Little has looked fun, or free, not like it has for Tyler Johnson.

The question is whether the glass of Lasko — a Slovenian brewing staple — should be viewed as half full or half empty. Half full, in the sense that Miami has survived his continued struggle, to get off to a strong start? Or half empty, in the sense that, after a sluggish preseason, he still doesn’t look anything like the dynamo who dashed though the league two seasons ago, earning third team All-NBA honors?

Lean toward the former, because help for his head is on the way.

So how will he greet them?

“I don’t know,” Dragic said, laughing. “It’s going to be spontaneous. If I say something, that I’m going to do that. … It’s just going to happen.”

He snapped his fingers.

So maybe he’ll snap back.

Meanwhile, the Heat keeps winning. So no one is panicking. His family is coming. And maybe, just maybe, Tuesday will be the night that Goran Dragic gets right.

Ethan J. Skolnick: 305-376-3483, @ethanjskolnick

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/ethan-j-skolnick/article44622747.html#storylink=cpy

Especially in basketball with only 12 guys and like 7-9 that actually play. You gotta really scrape to come up with shit people care about. That's the only plea I could offer for this, I mean come on, you're trying to tell me dude is falling on his face over some psychological shit? I don't mean to belittle being apart from your family but you're a professional who's on the road half the year. Deal with it.

I'm a Heat fan so I follow dude on Twitter, and read most of his articles, etc. He was working for Bleacher Report last year following various teams after being with the Miami Herald for years. He basically gave that up coz his daughter was born last year and he barely got to see her.

But that article was dogshit, sorry

http://only-sneakers.ru/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/british-knights-kings-sl.jpg

30 pts, 15 assists, 10 boards, 4 steals

huertas was somewhere in glendale when he shot the ball.

Other time was in Miami when he was guarding Tyler Johnson....but at least he had the excuse that he was leaning onto the pick-side during PnR. Tonight's was just 1v1 dirty lol.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/gpk/images/8/81/Card_527.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130430141129

http://cdn.hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Screen-shot-2011-10-22-at-11.42.00-PM.png

So what it is?


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

http://tinyurl.com/hxt9qrh

Brandon Knight's game, interestingly, is more euro

Dragic be wiggling in the lane. He's a long armed, sprightly,
athletic Slavic

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Cool

Good player tho

But I still need analytics people to explain some shit


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

rhetorical question, of course.

Back to Dragic being 30, overpaid, overvalued, and only capable of driving left.

stats on a garbage team.

more to you.

more to you. and only you btw.

So this "athletic prime" shit I'm not so sure about

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "