Sidebar: niggaz stay forgetting Kareem exists. Let's say Kareem is as big of an asshole as they say he is, I think he should be 1,000 times more of an asshole.

http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/id/10439666/lebron-james-says-among-nba-all-greats

LeBron: I'll be among greatest
Updated: February 11, 2014, 5:34 PM ET
ESPN.com news services
RECOMMEND40TWEET1COMMENTS24EMAILPRINT
"King James" is confident he'll be NBA royalty by the time he's ready to leave the game.

“
I'm going to be one of the top four that's ever played this game, for sure. And if they don't want me to have one of those top four spots, they'd better find another spot on that mountain. Somebody's gotta get bumped, but that's not for me to decide. That's for the architects.
”
-- LeBron James
"I'm going to be one of the top four that's ever played this game, for sure," LeBron James said in an interview that will air on NBA TV on Monday. "And if they don't want me to have one of those top four spots, they'd better find another spot on that mountain. Somebody's gotta get bumped, but that's not for me to decide. That's for the architects."

James, who has previously talked about being one of the greats of all time, was responding to a question during the interview when asked to name his personal Mount Rushmore, the four greatest players of all time.

James' first three selections which he called the "easy three," were Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson. He deliberated before taking Oscar Robertson as his fourth choice.
As for who is fifth, the 29-year-old James already has built quite the case.

James' growing list of accomplishments include two straight NBA championships, two Finals MVP awards, four MVP awards, seven All NBA First-Team selections, five times on the NBA All Defensive Team and he's on his way to his 10th All-Star Game.

http://cdn.niketalk.com/e/eb/eb2a5141_dis-gon-be-good-gif.gif

-->

Breathe through the nose
keep the mouth closed.
Through the blood
Chi goes where the dow flows.

Players before have tried to dictate that conversation, and that shit is wack.

By the time Bron is done there are gonna be about 15 players in that convo, and we can all debate until we're blue in the face and still not decide.
Kareem is in that convo.
Tim is in that convo.
Kobe is in.
Shaq is in.
So is Russell.
Wilt.
Oscar.
Dream
There are names.

(Kobe and Hakeem in particular) if the convo is 'greatest player ever' short list.

http://tinyurl.com/bhe4uye

>

Sorry it's my first week of twitter (which I've already enjoyed more than a decade on facebook) so shit like this is still amusing to me:

Peter Vecsey ‏@PeterVecsey1 12h
Silly me, 2 think I'd believed Bron's claim 2 know NBA history. Stationing himself ahead of Kareem, Russ, Wilt, Baylor & Kobe debunks that.

Bombastic ‏@nostrabombus 12h
@PeterVecsey1 He was saying by the time he was done not that he already is but did you really say Kobe? That's *been* over. He's chasing MJ.

Peter Vecsey ‏@PeterVecsey1 12h
@nostrabombus says u. Wasn't that u saying Bron was choke artist last years in Cleveland and first with Miami?

Bombastic ‏@nostrabombus 12h
@PeterVecsey1 Wasnt me. Even MJ couldnt win w those Cavs. Thats why they had a bigger 1-season drop postLBJ then CHI 99 after MJ/Pip/Rod/PJ.

Peter Vecsey ‏@PeterVecsey1 11h
@nostrabombus yeah, that's what u say now

Bombastic ‏@nostrabombus 11h
@PeterVecsey1 Wouldnt bore a HOF-r w/my plethora of online evidence but trust me, it exists. LBJ had 3 casts w/ring talent, won 2. Kobe 12/5

Peter Vecsey ‏@PeterVecsey1 11h
@nostrabombus r u sure u factored in Shaq's fat attacks and surgeries b4 season & Malone's injury? One way or other, still 3 behind

Bombastic ‏@nostrabombus 10h
@PeterVecsey1 Sure. Also factored in Paus broken heart & D12s small hands. Each w/2 as their teams #1 but Brons in his prime & Kobe is done.

https://twitter.com/nostrabombus/status/433503002230390784

and the fact that it would have been about 1-2 AM East Coast.

And I just chalk it up to Kobe hate. Or some weird Iverson backlash.

Kobe ain't sniffing Top 5, even with 5. Finito.

Why that upsets you?

Not sure.

I like Bron more than Kobe.

But it is what it is.

I mean Kobe could stop tomorrow & it would be as noticeable as ARod stopping baseball, it's over for both in terms of relevance or major achievement.

Yet if Lebron did stop at 29 in the middle of his prime, nah....what he's done so far I'd still be good with saying it.

Since he's been MVP of the league 4 times to Kobe's 1, plays/defends 5 positions to Kobe's 1, passes/rebounds better, scores more efficiently & is a better teammate with a greater effect on other players.

I also happen to think Lebron would easily trump Kobe's ring total if he had begun with eight seasons of prime Shaq.

And why you assume I'm mad for saying that, I don't know.

Lebron's not looking at Kobe, he's looking past him.

Or what would've happened (If he played with Shaq), yet he's won with Wade and Bosh.

It's all laughable really that you're:
1.) this pressed to try to shit on Kobe
2.) intent on ignoring facts and re-imagining what NBA history

MVP's are nice, but Nash has 2. So, there's that.

Lebron James has done and done more of along with a whole rack of things Kobe could/would never do including defend any position on the floor, destroy teams with his passing, score efficiently or play well with others.

So if you wanna stay cysing '5>>>>>2' as if Shaq wasn't there for eight seasons and the #1 option for the first three or that he had Feel coaching him for 12 years don't get taken into account is just a waste of time.

Bringing up Steve Nash & then calling me pressed, lol...FOH.

I said FOUR MVPs, not two.

Not to mention three runner-ups & Top 5 every year in the league besides his rookie season in which he finished 9th.

Kobe got one career award MVP season in two decades.

Lebron has been the consensus best player in the league for the past FIVE years at an absolute minimum tho personally to me it's more like 7/8, NBA fans can even agree on what single season Kobe was ever that.

It's really pretty easy to disregard Kobe in this convo by comparison & get back to worrying about the short list of people he's legitimately gotta do a lot more work to pass.

RINGS, BITCH, END OF DISCUSSION.

You're trying to throw in all types of qualifiers to discount Kobe's accomplishments and you're not pressed?

It's Shaq.

Oh and it's Phil.

And Lebron got MVP runner-ups.

So?

Shaq wouldn't have won those chips without Kobe either. And Bron had help too.

I don't care about any qualifiers or your emotions.

5

That's it. He was a major part to 5.

shaq was the irreplaceable part and leader of three titles. bron of two (to date). kobe of two. it's not that hard to understand really.

uh huh.

It's obvious Kobe is great...But there's just too much shit involved with dude to be amongst that greatest of the greats.....

Yeah...he's more talented as gunning his ass off...lol

Listen...Kobe is def. in the top 10....Dude is the greatest SG of his era BY FAR....

Kobe is great...To say otherwise is just trolling...But is he a top 5-6 or even 7 all-time GREAT?

Nah...

And that's OK...That's not a diss...That's a tough list to crack for any player....

Even 10 is dumb. Lebron is obviously much better than that it's pointless. The 'question' now is top 5 and Kobe isn't involved unless he wants to tweet about it.

but bron is the only one in THE convo.

there have been many greats. Just because they're not recent or have the best marketing teams or highlight packages doesn't mean they don't exist.

whats 2 more ladder rings to climb? Minus whale go for GOAT!

that dance is greatness.

New Mantra: anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


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I find your lack of consistency disturbing.

It's brewing...

He needs more ice to be mentioned on dat Rushmore

MJ, Magic, Bird & him. What Bron does defensively as a two way player separates him from most if not all the names in this post. That ether burns the haters souls slowly.

refresh my memory



i still can't believe how quickly people either willfully ignore that, or forgot it happened

he left the Bucks.

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..." -The Bard

news to me

arguments could be made for the 2nd 3 of Oscar, Magic and Bird IF Lebron gets another ring or 2

Of course they do...Any knowledgeable basketball fan would....

unless you're phil knight or something.

no one did more in their career than kareem.

moms was huffing paint while she was carrying him

people talk about it.

wow

Kareem averaged over 20 as recently as 85/86. Jordan, Barkley and Ewing were in the league.

What happened before then doesn't even translate to now. 11 rings? 100 points? Might as well be made up.

That's 76. And Cap averaged 24 and 9.7 for the first TEN years after the merger. He's a modern era player.


Wilt is the only pre-merger player I count.

stop being ridiculous

I find myself going back and forth between Wilt and Jordan, but they're definitely 1 and 2.

i would have wilt no. 1 and even kobe agrees lol.

jordan was an extremely special player though. you have literally a handful of perimeter players with even a chance of doing what he did in chicago, and i think most if not all would have fallen short.

They played against each other 27 times, including 11 games in the playoffs of 1971 and 1972.

Chamberlain's teams won 14 of the 27 games, while Jabbar's teams won 13.

In their first 11 meetings, Chamberlain was still able to (i.e. inclined to) score with Jabbar. In those first 11 games, Wilt averaged 22.8 ppg and 17.6 rebounds, while Kareem averaged 26.0 ppg and 15.6 rebounds.

In the 1972 season, Kareem outscored Wilt 201-70 in their five regular season games. In the six 1972 playoff games, Kareem outscored Wilt 202-67, but Wilt out-rebounded Jabbar and played better defense (i.e. shutting down the middle) when it counted.

Chamberlain himself went on an offensive tear in Game Six (bringing the Lakers back from a 10-point deficit), and led the Lakers to a series clinching victory, ensuring there would be no Game Seven.

Basically, Wilt is Dwight FOUR times over.

Wilt
Cap
Jorn
Bron
Magic
Bird
Russell
Shaq

No Celtics in the actual top-5, tho.

last year

given that he's halfway through his career

top 5 in points
top 10 in assists
top 20 in rebounds

and I fully expect him to come for Cap's #1 points spot

what's the argument again?

he's already at 22K points, which is the category I would expect him to lose some production as he gets older

20 points per game for 10 more years doesn't seem LOL to me

I would also expect his assist numbers and rebounds to go up as he slows down a little

so yeah, projected

what isn't LOL, is his numbers actually improving

>he's already at 22K points, which is the category I would
>expect him to lose some production as he gets older
>
>20 points per game for 10 more years doesn't seem LOL to me
>
>I would also expect his assist numbers and rebounds to go up
>as he slows down a little

Rebounds are more likely to go down, lol


>so yeah, projected
>
>what isn't LOL, is his numbers actually improving

His efficiency is up but his averages have leveled off

what makes you think he won't?

impact style that relies heavily on speed and athleticism?

Karl Malone would be sitting pretty on Mt.Rushmore otherwise. Just look at how pedestrian Bosh's number look compared to what he used to put up on a mediocre Raptors' team. Besides, defense isn't quantifiable as much as offensive stats thus dominant defensive player are taken for granted.

We watched Kobe go lone gunner in a desperate attempt to catch Mike...

...and fall short

Bron has shifted the focus from just scoring as many points as individually possible

and now we see players actually focused on being efficient

Bron is doing everything on a basketball floor at an extremely high level

that is going to be his legacy

and as I stated above, finishing his career top 5 in points, top 10 in assists and top 20 in boards is how you quantify his legacy

so yeah, stats matter

think about it for a second

top 5, top 10 and top 20 for a career

as in, only 9 players in the history of the league have more assists

only 19 players have more boards, mind boggling for a non-c or pf

and, IMO, he will catch cap, all while scoring more points than anybody else

we could talk defense too, and I think he's been getting robbed for DPOY honors as well

I mean, what else does dude really have to do, other than keep running at the level he's playing at for a handful of years

and then get cozy in the 2nd fiddle role, ala DWade, to finish his career?

maybe folks are mad because the math is too easy? IDK

.

If I were starting a team with one player ever, I could make an argument that all five would be centers. Certainly I think going with four and Jordan would be reasonable.

being better than bird and either oscar or magic has to be a GIVEN to wedge him in that top list.

with one guy.'

Shaq in the early 00s wasn't an all time basketball player, but you have to go back to antiquity to find that kind of dominance. They lost ONE playoff game in 2001.

> They lost ONE playoff game in 2001.

http://schneeblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Goat-King-60021.jpeg

he'd be in my top ten anyway and probably top 5 as far as starting a team.

other guys wouldnt really change positions to me on those two lists.

people try to discredit him

this dude was eating everybody's fucking lunch and coming back for seconds in the playoffs.

i do think he would have had to make adjustments to play in some earlier eras, but who's to say he would not have?

to me you have wilt as clearly better, cap as likely better and hakeem as arguably better. moses malone, duncan and russell are the only other guys who could be in the convo at all. pretty elite list.

shoulda been first but didn't always handle things the right way.

He's in the convo heavy.

Still got Bird highly on this list above bron bron.

May eventually surpass eventually him but at this moment? NOPE

basketball player than Lebron is now?

http://bkref.com/tiny/qLqtK

That Bird was HIGHLY better than Lebron? Is that what you think it says?

of course folks thing Lebron is going to play another 10 years at this level so we'll see, lol

alluding to his health and being able to play

of course his numbers will start to trend down sometime

but I haven't seen it yet

so why not?

11 years for Bird, and then what happened

By highly, I mean Bird's heroics was second to none in terms of clutchness and he was a very underrated defender while his numbers stand on their own with him also sharing the scoring load with guys like McHale who took turns owning a couple Celtics scoring records.

Bird's career is still very comparable despite the last half of it being on a bum back. Alas he still won more rings which is one of the last legs I can stand on before I can say that Lebron is poised to surpass him in terms of a overall winning legacy.

I'm slowly giving in to Bron eventually surpassing that with him killing it at 58% FG is pretty much unprecedented and on par with when Bird did 50%/90%/40% and when Durant does so in the past few years of him inserting cheat codes into his own shooting formula.

I think this may be one of those better player/career arguments since I can see Lebron having a clearly better overall career given another year or two especially if he can nab another ring or two. Yet I would still take shit-talking head taunting Bird in terms of a dope player with balls-of-steel who I can trust in those last few minutes to give me a W who can be a great teammate yet a complete asshole to opponents.

lebron is a better defender and more explosive, bird is a better shooter and rebounder.

bron, dr j, bird, elgin baylor and karl malone, to me, are the five best forwards in league history.

>bron, dr j, bird, elgin baylor and karl malone, to me, are the
>five best forwards in league history.

Karl Malone was a freak of nature PHYSICALLY but dude lacked the clutch gene & never owned the paint b/c of his short arms which meant he couldn't dominate the game on BOTH SIDES of the court. Dude had more buckets than anyone not named Kareem but he was no where to be found when it counted. If anyone deserves to have point docked for not winning a chip it's the Mail Man. I don't want to hear the "MJ era" excuse....because 94 & 95 happened.

christ, any time there is a mention or non mention of duncan's name, does a lighted silhouette of his dick and balls go up in the sky like the bat signal for you?

-David was the one checking Shaq
-There were no centers after Shaq retired
-Nazr/Splitter/Rasho couldn't score outside the paint & checked the opposing center
-Timmay's main offensive arsenal has been shooting elbow jumpers for the past 3 years.

The only time Timmay played center was when they played the Mavs (b/c he couldn't check Dirk), Suns (b/c they had no center) or in the 4th quarter when Horry came in to finish the game.

yes. and conveniently you are going to pull out robinson, how about when he played with guys like 6'7" malik rose or similarly stout (by nba standards) dajuan blair or big PF kevin willis? i dont know that i'd call oberto a true center. sure as shit not matt bonner.

duncan was UNARGUABLY a center with those guys on the floor and even when robinson or whatever other nobody (rasho nesterovic or whatever shit) was on the floor, he was a center. was hakeem a PF because he played next to ralph sampson?

why i am having this dumb fucking argument AGAIN? least of all with you, who gargles with a jar of duncan's cum and knows his career inside and out?

>yes. and conveniently you are going to pull out robinson, how
>about when he played with guys like 6'7" malik rose
I already acknowledged Timmay played center in certain situation such as when Horry came in to close the games. Nobody said Malik Rose or Horry were centers, they were inserted into the line up when Pop wanted to go small. Basically, Timmay was a PF/C not just a PF not just a C.

>or
>similarly stout (by nba standards) dajuan blair or big PF
>kevin willis?
LOL....How many playoff minutes did Blair or Kevin Willis play?

i dont know that i'd call oberto a true center.
>sure as shit not matt bonner.
Bonner is a fucking bench player who only played in certain situations during the post-season. LOL @ Oberto not being a center.....sure he wasn't swatting shots like Admiral but he was a center on the national team playing along side Scola & he sure as heck was the one checking the opposing center. He never played when the opponent went small b/c he couldn't guard mobile bigs nor play outside the paint unlike Timmay.

>duncan was UNARGUABLY a center with those guys on the floor
>and even when robinson or whatever other nobody (rasho
>nesterovic or whatever shit) was on the floor, he was a
>center. was hakeem a PF because he played next to ralph
>sampson?
PF: possess the ability to score OUTSIDE the paint but can also play in the paint
Center: Not required to score outside the paint

With this definition Rasho/Oberto/Splitter/Nazr were centers.
Dream was also a cat who could play 3 positions: SF/PF/C just like KG.

>why i am having this dumb fucking argument AGAIN? least of all
>with you, who gargles with a jar of duncan's cum and knows his
>career inside and out?
Oh so my fault in the Timoty Duncan debate is I know more about his game than you........in that case take your L & keep collecting signatures for Hendo Sr's HOF bid.

it can never be said often enough.

and its not really close, he probably was a better rebounder too

>he probably was a better rebounder too

no the fuck he wasn't.

malone had one season -- 1987-88 -- where he averaged more than 11 rebounds per 36 minutes. duncan has sixteen such seasons, including his current one at age 37.

duncan's never averaged fewer than 10.5 rebounds per 36 for a season. malone averaged fewer than that in 13 of his 19 seasons.

malone's career high in total rebound % (17.4 in 94-95) would be the second lowest of duncan's 17 year career.

lmao.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2012/2/29/2832299/lebron-james-kobe-bryant-dwyane-wade-clutch-nba-playoffs-4th-quarter

"Active players who have attempted at least 650 "clutch" shots since the 2000-01 season. Again, for this set, ‘clutch' is defined as "the shots that occur during the 4th quarter or overtime, with less than five minutes remaining, and neither team ahead by more than five points". Playoffs are included.

Observations:
Of the 15 players listed, Kobe Bryant's shooting percentage (40%) was below average.
Tim Duncan and LeBron James shot the highest percentage (46%)."

Would Duncan have beaten the Bulls at ANY point in his career?
The answer is no...so the rings argument can go out the window

shots than anybody else, MADE more of those shots than anybody else.

Also it looks like Duncan took a lot less than most other star players. It would also be interesting to see the numbers for some of Duncan's teammates like Parker and Manu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhDi0Ce_Z5w

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html#all_playoffs_per_minute

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duncati01.html#all_playoffs_per_minute

i would take duncan, sure, but it's pretty close.

MJ
Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird
Kareem
Dream
Shaq
Oscar
Duncan
Kobe

good ol Lebron mindfucking the media & nba fans before the all-star game

70s-Kareem/Oscar/Wilt/Dr. J---> Cap
80s-Magic/Bird/Zeke/Mo Malone --> Magic???
90s-Dream/MJ/Barkley/Mail Man--> Cheese
2000s-Shaq/Kobe/Timmay/Wade--> TBD (Legacy padding still in progress)
2010s-Bron as of today

It's tough. I almost feel like the list should be separated into bigs and smalls.

I would have my lists like this

Bigs:
Wilt
Cap
Hakeem
Shaq
Russell
Duncan
Moses Malone
Karl Malone
David Robinson
George Mikan

Obviously a lot of tough ones to leave off there like Barkley, Dirk, Elvin Hayes, Bill Walton, Pat Ewing and many more. Russell/Duncan/Malone were hard to place for me, I could see arguments for jockeying of postions but went with some more dynamic offensive players ahead of them who were also dominant. I'm definitely prepared to defend Hakeem at No. 3, too lol.

Smalls:
Jorn!
Big O
Magic
Bird
Elgin Baylor
Dr J
Jerry West
Bron
Kobe
Zeke

You got huge scorers like George Gervin, AI and Rick Barry left off here, which sucks. I don't see where they fit in though. On the flipside it pained me to leave extraordinary distributors John Stockton, Gary Payton and Steve Nash off but again there just aren't that many slots.

The sky is the limit for Bron, I just didnt put him ahead of some guys out of respect for them and what they accomplished over long careers. I could see him being No. 2 before it's all over.

>Obviously a lot of tough ones to leave off there like Barkley,
>Dirk, Elvin Hayes, Bill Walton, Pat Ewing and many more.
Swap Admiral, Mail Man & Mikan for Barkley, McHale & KG or even Dirk.


>You got huge scorers like George Gervin, AI and Rick Barry
>left off here, which sucks. I don't see where they fit in
>though. On the flipside it pained me to leave extraordinary
>distributors John Stockton, Gary Payton and Steve Nash off but
>again there just aren't that many slots.

Steve Nash, although one of great shooters/distributor of his era, isn't a top 20 small let alone top 10. He was one of the worst defenders of his era, was a boarder line all-star (ala Ty Lawson) w/o Pringles & has never been to the Finals despite playing w/ prime Dirk/Amare/Matrix/Finley/Jamison/Shimmy Walker/J-Rich. Just to name a few: Both Clydes/Earl/Boston Strangler/Nique/Kevin Johnson/J-Kidd/T-Mac/Vince/Pierce/Ray/KD/Wade/Top5/Manu/Cp3/Russy/Billups/Rose/Arenas/Baron/Melo/Harden/Joe Cool were/are better players than Nash...Deron Fatter might have a shot if he gets it together. Not to mention that Kyrie/Wall/Paul George/Lillard are on the come up. He owes his legacy to Pringles just like Mike Bibby owes his legacy to Rick Adelmen .

What about your boy Hendo Sr though?

He's no better than Mark Price....which isn't an insult by any means.

>Steve Nash ... was a boarder line all-star (ala Ty Lawson) w/o Pringles

ummm no.

the fuck does that even mean?

steve nash pre-d'antoni wasn't a "boarder line all-star ala Ty Lawson".

he was an all star. ty lawson isn't an all star.

steve nash was. twice. in 2002 and 2003. that means he was one of the top 25 players in the league.

he was also all nba in 2002 and 2003. that means he was one of the top 15 players in the league. and one of the 6 best guards.

he was also 8th in PER (22.6) and win shares (11.6) and 11th in MVP votes in 2003. that means he was one of the top 10 or so players in the league. (yeah yeah i know, ADVANCED METRICS SUCK NERD LOLOL)

he wasn't ty fucking lawson, dude. his MVPs didn't materialize from thin air. not sure why folx still insist on hawking that bill of goods.

>he was an all star. ty lawson isn't an all star.

Ty Lawson would have been an All-Star in the early 2000s when the guard position wasn't as competitive.

>steve nash was. twice. in 2002 and 2003. that means he was one
>of the top 25 players in the league.
As if the position he played doesn't matter.

>he was also all nba in 2002 and 2003. that means he was one of
>the top 15 players in the league. and one of the 6 best
>guards.
During those 2 years his competition for 3rd team was 40 year old Stockton, another systems player in Bibby, Starbury playing on a lotto team, unappreciated Sam Cassell/Ray plus young Baron. He suddenly disappeared from the 2003-04 All-NBA Teams when Baron & Redd arrived along w/ Cassell finally getting his dues. Then Pringles arrived & all of a sudden he's 1st Team the year after not even making 3rd team. Gilbert, Billups, Top5, Manu, Wade, Cp3, Deron & all those cats came onto the scene after Nash moved in w/ Pringles....& they were better all around players than Nash.

>he was also 8th in PER (22.6) and win shares (11.6) and 11th
>in MVP votes in 2003. that means he was one of the top 10 or
>so players in the league.
Dude got badly outplayed by Mike Bibby in 2004 & beat Nash/Dirk/Finley w/ a broken down C-Webb......which is why Cuban had no qualms letting him walk instead of opening up the check book.


>he wasn't ty fucking lawson, dude. his MVPs didn't materialize
>from thin air. not sure why folx still insist on hawking that
>bill of goods.
Tony Parker was running circles around him during his MVP years...dude gave up as much as he produced.

With that said he was the God PnR point guard of his era.

Barring injury, I'd be shocked if he doesnt get 4.

http://s464.photobucket.com/user/Wilroc05/media/lechoke.jpg.html

http://jeffzelaya.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/lebron-missing-poster.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-twTjaKkl3hw/T-SgEvq9mQI/AAAAAAAAAA0/aQiXROhHGCo/s1600/choke.jpg

http://www.atbreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/The-Loss-of-the-ring.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ffY1o2K6Jcs/TS_4hwYlTSI/AAAAAAAAAtk/RD5wbyfMtfI/s400/Lebron+Choke.jpg

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/early-lead/files/2013/06/james1.jpg

http://cheesesteakswithbarkley.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/lebron-choke.jpg

http://media.salemwebnetwork.com/ecards/patriotic/never-forget-flag-550x320.jpg

in general i wish people would fall back and see how it plays out but in this case it's him bringing it up personally. if he gets four rings, i would say he would move ahead of bird and magic to me. could be a day with him, mike, wilt and cap on this imaginary monument.

>Barring injury, I'd be shocked if he doesnt get 4.


Nah...too much goes into winning chips....

When you dominate the league AND get chips that's the formula...

I have Bron in my top 5 right now...But he's still below the usual suspects...But that has nothing to do with rings....

but you're not in the convo w/o 5.

Dudes are acting like rings don't matter all of a sudden.

>Dudes are acting like rings don't matter all of a sudden.

"But I think, for (Durant), obviously he's an unbelievable player," James said. "And I'm one of the guys that just don't, I don't believe that winning a championship defines your career, you know. There's so many greats that never won, and it's unfortunate that they didn't." -- Lebron James, Feb. 11, 2014

way way too smart a guy to be this disingenuous.

when you start using championships (a team accomplishment) to define individual players in a team sport.

tom brady became a much much better football player after he stopped winning SBs, kareem was a much better player in the 70s than he was in the 80s, etc.

wilt chamberlain is certainly one of the best 4 players in nba history imo.

>way way too smart a guy to be this disingenuous.


Rings are VERY tricky.....

There is a reason why we say Jordan is the greatest player of all time...Even though Russell has A LOT more rings...And Russ is still considered one of the GOATS...

I don't ring count because there's so much that goes into that...Were you a great player who played with a sucky ass bench or PG? Were you a great player who happened to play in the era of MJ? (Malone, Ewing, Sir Charles ect...)...Ect...

The way I see a GOAT is did u totally dominate the league AND win rings? That's it...

Well...I'm willing to bet that Bron James will win a few more MVP's in his time and possibly another ring or two...

That said I already have Bron in my top 10...EASILY...His dominance during his era has been off the charts...And this is coming from a Bulls fan...

that mt. rushmore top four is hard to narrow down

He's already more talented than any of the perimeter players in the discussion

and he's the only one that has never played college ball/college coach or a great pro coach

"Before the game, LeBron James was talking to Bill Russell and Bill said, ‘Hey, thank you for leaving me off your Mount Rushmore.’ He said 'I’m glad you did. Basketball is a team game, it’s not for individual honors. I won back-to-back state championships in high school, back-to-back NCAA championships in college, I won an NBA championship my first year in the league, an NBA championship in my last year, nine in between. And that, Mr. James, is etched in stone."

https://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2298095&mesg_id=2298095&listing_type=search#2298645

Top 5 scoring all-time
Top 10 assists all-time

Depending on how many more years he plays, still a chance for top 20 rebounds all-time

The Kobe folks in know are not pleased