http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2014/story/_/id/9559829/2014-nba-draft-incredible-depth-make-2014-best-ever

Ford said Payne, Hood, NOR Sulaimon are first-rounders?! Laughable.

i am going to taunt that dude on twitter every step of the way. there's no way he gonna get away with tryna cyse hood when it should be fuckin obvious by now. this is his JOB. he should know how good hood is. this kinda stuff lets me know he don't talk to scouts and GMs nearly as much as he claims.




Print and Go Back ESPN.com: Draft 2014

Monday, August 12, 2013
2014 NBA draft Big Board
By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider

The 2014 NBA draft is going to be epic. Our initial 2014 Big Board is one of the most talent-laden I've ever seen. There are as many as five to eight future All-Stars in this group. A number of teams deliberately gutted their rosters this summer to try to get as high as possible in the 2014 lottery. It's going to be big.

The day after the draft, we debuted our first Top 100 of 2014. The Top 100 is a reflection on the consensus of NBA scouts and general managers about a player's relative value in the draft. The Top 100 debuts each year the day after the NBA draft and is finalized the day of the draft.

The Big Board is different. This is a more detailed look at the top 30 players (essentially the first round of the NBA draft) in our Top 100. It tracks player movement and stock fluctuation and is filled with the latest intel from NBA scouts. The biggest takeaway from the first Board for 2014? Not only is the top of the draft stacked, but Kentucky is unbelievably talented.

We have seven Kentucky players in our Big Board -- something that's never happened before. So here it is, our first Big Board for the 2014 draft.

1
Andrew Wiggins
SCHOOL: Kansas
AGE: 18
HT/WT: 6-8, 195
POS: SG
Freshman: No stats

Wiggins begins the year as the consensus No. 1 player on our Big Board. In fact, many scouts believe he's the best young prospect to come into the draft since Kevin Durant. Wiggins is blessed with extreme athleticism. You hear names such as Vince Carter and Dominique Wilkins when people talk about his explosive leaping abilities. Wiggins is also a polished scorer who can shoot the 3 and get to the basket. His only weakness is that he appears to lack the same killer instinct that elite wings such as Kobe Bryant possess. But he's young. Wiggins skipped both national team commitments and camps this summer and, instead, enrolled early at KU. Fans might have to be patient as he figures out how to fit into a pretty loaded Jayhawks squad, but he's going to have to stumble pretty badly to fall out of this spot on our Big Board.

PLAYER CARD

2
Julius Randle
SCHOOL: Kentucky
AGE: 18
HT/WT: 6-9, 225
POS: PF
Freshman: No stats

In a normal year, Randle would be the consensus No. 1 player in the draft. He's that good. He has size, strength, athleticism and a well-rounded game; power forwards like Randle don't come along very often. Head coach John Calipari might have to convince Randle to stay in the paint and take fewer 3-pointers. Still, he's expected to anchor a ridiculously talented Kentucky squad this season. Like Wiggins, Randle decided to forgo any summer league play and focus on Kentucky. Despite the talent on the team, scouts expect him to quickly assert himself as the alpha dog. He should provide a serious challenge to Wiggins for the No. 1 pick in the draft.

PLAYER CARD

3
Dante Exum
COUNTRY: Australia
AGE: 18
HT/WT: 6-6, 188
POS: PG
18.0 PPG, 4.0 RPG at FIBA U-19s

Exum had the biggest summer of any player on the Big Board. He was awesome in the FIBA U-19 championships this summer, averaging 18 PPG and nearly 4.0 APG. A 33-point game against Spain in the quarterfinals and a 28-point game in the bronze-medal game versus Lithuania were highlights. He seems to have the perfect blend of size, athleticism and skill to play either the point or the 2. Add in his rangy defense, and he's a true two-way player. He graduates from high school in December and, technically, if he wanted to he could join an NCAA team for the second half of the season. However, he may not have to. He impressed scouts enough this summer that he seems like a lock to be a top-5 pick if he declares for the draft. He's also a dark horse for the No. 1 pick.

PLAYER CARD

4
Jabari Parker
SCHOOL: Duke
AGE: 18
HT/WT: 6-8, 241
POS: SF
Freshman: No stats

Parker, not Wiggins, is the one who once graced the cover of Sports Illustrated. Two years ago, he would've been the No. 1 guy on the board. But Parker's growth leveled out, scouts began to question his athleticism and upside and that combination has caused him to slide a few spots here. Make no mistake, Parker can play. In fact, he might be the most well-rounded player in this class -- think a better version of the Washington Wizards forward Otto Porter.
PLAYER CARD

5
Marcus Smart
SCHOOL: Oklahoma State
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 6-4, 225
POS: PG
15.4 PPG
5.8 RPG
4.2 APG

Smart shocked everyone in April when he decided to forgo a likely top-2 selection in the 2013 NBA draft and return to Oklahoma State for his sophomore season. Some saw Smart's decision as bizarre, but to many NBA scouts Smart's choice to return is a testament to his great character. Smart felt he wasn't ready to dominate the NBA. He wanted to improve his jumper, cut down on his turnovers and, most importantly, he wanted to lead the Cowboys to a national championship. Nevertheless, scouts who watched Smart at the FIBA U-19 championships and Team USA minicamp came away wondering if he'll really improve. His jump shot and handle still were pretty shaky and scouts were already picking apart his game. If Smart fixes his weaknesses, he, too, will make a compelling case for the top overall pick -- especially if the team that lands No. 1 needs a point guard.
PLAYER CARD

6
Aaron Gordon
SCHOOL: Arizona
AGE: 17
HT/WT: 6-8, 210
POS: PF
Freshman: No stats

The hardest player to leave out of the top five was Gordon. Why? Gordon looks like a young clone of Los Angeles Clippers forward Blake Griffin. After Wiggins, Gordon might be the most athletic player in the draft, he plays with a huge motor and is very scrappy. Gordon was, arguably, the best player on Team USA's U-19 squad, leading the team in both points per game (12.6) and rebounds (6.3). Gordon's lack of size for his position and a shaky perimeter game are the two things that keep him from being ranked higher. Arizona plans to play him at small forward this season. If he can make the transition, he's going very, very high.
PLAYER CARD

7
Andrew Harrison
SCHOOL: Kentucky
AGE: 18
HT/WT: 6-5, 207
POS: PG
Freshman: No stats

Harrison is the last player in this group that scouts are convinced is a sure-fire All-Star. Blessed with size, athleticism and terrific court vision, Harrison is the prototypical point guard of the future. The only things pushing his ranking down are question marks about his attitude and work ethic. Kentucky head coach John Calipari has a way of righting wrongs, however, and most scouts feel that a season at Kentucky is exactly what Harrison needs to polish up his resume. He should be Smart's top competitor for the top point guard in the draft.
PLAYER CARD

8
Joel Embiid
SCHOOL: Kansas
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 7-0, 240
POS: C
Freshman: No stats

Louisville head coach Rick Pitino is on record as saying Embiid has a chance to be the No. 2 pick in the draft. The scouts I talked to aren't quite ready to go there yet, but they are very, very intrigued. Embiid is the riskiest player in the Top 10, but next to Wiggins, he might have the most long-term potential. Embiid wowed scouts at the McDonald's game and in practices for the Nike Hoop Summit, as well as at adidas Nations. He has rapidly moved up in the rankings. His feel for the game is still a work in progress, but the physical tools are convincing. He has a 7-foot-5 wingspan, is a fluid athlete and is more skilled than one would think. If Bill Self can get him up to speed quickly and get him to play hard all the time, he's the top center prospect in the draft.
PLAYER CARD

9
Dario Saric
COUNTRY: Croatia
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 6-10, 223
POS: SF
7.7 PPG
6.1 RPG
2.1 APG

Saric pulled out of the 2013 draft at the withdrawal deadline and opted to return to Croatia for another season despite a promise from an NBA team that he'd be drafted in the lottery. The early thinking was that the move was a mistake because the 2013 draft was weaker than 2014 projects to be. However, many scouts believe another year at Cibona will allow Saric to make his case that he's the best young international player in the world. He started the season off really slowly and ended it strongly, one international scout said. "Next season, if he plays like he did in March and April, he's going to be a top-10 pick. He's just too talented. Saric certainly made his case this summer with the Croatian U-19 national team. He was second in the tournament in scoring at 20.3 PPG, first in rebounds at 11.2 RPG and first in assists at 4.9 APG. That's an impressive feat. For Saric's critics, they'll point out he also led the tournament in turnovers, as well. Still, most scouts walked away from his performance still believing he's a top-10 pick next year.
PLAYER CARD

10
Chris Walker
SCHOOL: Florida
AGE: 18
HT/WT: 6-9, 195
POS: SF
Freshman: No stats

Like Embiid, Walker is an upside player. Blessed with elite athletic abilities and length, the question for him will be whether he can make the transition from the 4 to the 3. If he can get his jump shot falling with regularity (and if he can get cleared academically by the NCAA), he'll be a very attractive pick for teams looking for a Paul George-esque wing.

PLAYER CARD

11
Montrezl Harrell
SCHOOL: Louisville
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 6-8, 235
POS: PF
5.7 PPG
3.6 RPG
0.7 BPG

Harrell had a coming out party of sorts in the NCAA tournament and followed it up with another terrific performance for Team USA in the U-19 championships. Harrell was the third leading scorer for Team USA (10.6 PPG) and showed incredible energy. He has so many traits scouts love in a big man -- athleticism, toughness and a terrific motor. He's still a bit raw offensively, but he's a force of nature in the paint.
PLAYER CARD

12
Gary Harris
SCHOOL: Michigan State
AGE: 18
HT/WT: 6-4, 210
POS: SG
12.9 PPG
2.5 RPG
1.4 APG

Harris would've been a lottery pick had he declared for the 2013 draft after his freshman season, but there's reason to believe he can actually improve his status with another year in school. Despite averaging nearly 13 PPG and shooting 41 percent from 3-point range, Harris struggled with a shoulder injury all year that limited his productivity. Harris has been rehabbing his shoulder all summer and is now back in the gym. His defense, toughness and shooting ability all make him a highly coveted asset in 2014.
PLAYER CARD

13
Glenn Robinson III
SCHOOL: Michigan
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 6-6, 210
POS: SF
11.0 PPG
5.4 RPG
1.1 APG

Like Harris, Robinson also would've been a likely lottery pick in 2013. He is one of the best athletes in the country and quietly put together a terrific freshman season at Michigan. With Trey Burke and Tim Hardaway Jr. off to the NBA, the burden now falls on Robinson and teammate Mitch McGary to carry the load for the Wolverines. Robinson needs to get stronger and keep polishing that perimeter game, but scouts are very high on his future.

PLAYER CARD

14
Willie Cauley-Stein
SCHOOL: Kentucky
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 7-0, 220
POS: C
8.3 PPG
6.2 RPG
2.1 BPG

Cauley-Stein made a really wise decision to return for his sophomore season. The long, lanky big man has enormous talent. He's just very raw. Another year at Kentucky, this time surrounded with big-time talent, should help him to have a breakout year. In fact, if Cauley-Stein really takes off and maximizes his traits, we might have him way too low.

PLAYER CARD

15
Mario Hezonja
COUNTRY: Croatia
AGE: 18
HT/WT: 6-6, 200
POS: SG
2.5 PPG
33.3 FG%
2.3 RPG

I saw Hezonja playing at the 2011 Eurocamp for the U-19 Croatia team. He was my favorite player in the camp despite the fact he was just 16. I loved his athletic ability, but more importantly, I loved his confidence. He's now playing for FC Barcelona, one of the best teams in Europe. He's the only player in Europe who can really rival Dario Saric, in terms of talent. Injuries kept Hezonja out of the Under-19s this year, which might have hurt his draft stock a bit. The big question for Hezonja will be whether he gets the playing time he needs to continue to develop his game.

PLAYER CARD

16
Mitch McGary
SCHOOL: Michigan
AGE: 21
HT/WT: 6-10, 250
POS: PF
7.5 PPG
0.7 BPG
6.3 RPG

I was pretty surprised that McGary decided to ditch the 2013 draft. After his dominant performance in the NCAA tournament, his stock was as high as it's likely ever to be given that he's old for his class at 21. Now he has to live up to expectations that will be very hard to match. I love his toughness, energy and his skills around the basket -- but he'll be under a microscope this season and given that Trey Burke got him lots of easy buckets, scouts are a little more cautious when trying to project his draft status next season.

PLAYER CARD

17
Jerami Grant
SCHOOL: Syracuse
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 6-8, 203
POS: SF
3.9 PPG
0.5 APG
3.0 RPG

Grant didn't play a huge role for Syracuse as a freshman, but scouts are expecting him to play a much bigger role this season. Grant is another great athlete who can shoot the basketball and excel in transition. He was looking good for Team USA in the U-19 practices before coming down with mononucleosis and being scratched from the team. If he has a breakout season the way Michael Carter-Williams had, it's not out of the question that he goes in the lottery.

PLAYER CARD

18
Sam Dekker
SCHOOL: Wisconsin
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 6-8, 215
POS: SF
9.6 PPG
39.1 3PT%
3.4 RPG

Dekker is a favorite of the analytics crowd after a very effective freshman season. Not only does he have size and athleticism for his position, he's also a deadly shooter. He reminds a lot of scouts of Gordon Hayward.

PLAYER CARD

19
Jarnell Stokes
SCHOOL: Tennessee
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 6-8, 250
POS: PF
12.4 PPG
1.4 BPG
9.6 RPG

Stokes has been a quiet prospect over a season and a half in Tennessee. He's one of the youngest college juniors in the nation. The talented big man is a load in the paint, has soft hands and, when he plays hard, can be unstoppable down low. He had a solid showing for Team USA in the U-19s, averaging 7.4 PPG and 4.7 RPG in 12 MPG. He needs to continue to improve his jump shot and stay in great shape to keep his stock here, but the talent is undeniable.

PLAYER CARD

20
James Young
SCHOOL: Kentucky
AGE: 17
HT/WT: 6-7, 200
POS: SF
Freshman: No stats

Young is the fourth player on this board from Kentucky, and on sheer talent, he's as good as anyone on the list. Young is a long, athletic scorer who aggressively gets to the basket. He plays with a great motor and has some of the same intangibles as Michael Kidd-Gilchrist. His ranking may depend more on where he lands in the Kentucky pecking order. If he earns a starting spot over Poythress, he'll move up the rankings.
PLAYER CARD

21
Alex Poythress
SCHOOL: Kentucky
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 6-7, 215
POS: SF
11.2 PPG
6.0 RPG
42.4 3PT%

I wasnt really sure where to put Poythress on this list. Many scouts still believe that, on sheer talent alone, he's still a top-10 pick. Others arent convinced. He was strangely passive as a freshman, so much so that he eventually lost his starting job. That said, he has lottery-pick talent, and the Kentucky coaching staff really believes in him. If things start to click with him mentally, he's a lottery pick for sure.

PLAYER CARD

22
LaQuinton Ross
SCHOOL: Ohio State
AGE: 20
HT/WT: 6-8, 225
POS: SF
8.3 PPG
2.9 RPG
38.9 3PT%

Ross was another breakout star in the NCAA tournament. After two largely ineffective seasons at Ohio State, he came on strong late in the season and then put up some really impressive performances against Iowa State and Arizona in the tournament. With Deshaun Thomas off to the NBA, Ross should see a lot more of the scoring responsibilities fall on his shoulders. He has the size, athletic abilities and skill set that scouts love in a small forward. If he can play like he did in the tournament consistently over the course of the season, he'll be yet another player who will challenge for the lottery.

PLAYER CARD

23
Semaj Christon
SCHOOL: Xavier
AGE: 20
HT/WT: 6-3, 187
POS: PG
15.2 PPG
2.9 RPG
4.6 APG

Christon is one of just four point guards on the Big Board. Length and athleticism are his primary calling cards. A number of scouts believe he'll be a better prospect than Dennis Schroeder, a similar player from Germany who went No. 17 in the 2013 draft. Christon needs to improve his jump shot and keep turnovers down, but there is a lot of talent here.

PLAYER CARD

24
Jahii Carson
SCHOOL: Arizona State
AGE: 20
HT/WT: 5-10, 175
POS: PG
18.5 PPG
3.7 RPG
5.1 APG

He might be on the smallish side, but Carson wowed everyone this summer with his play at adidas Nations. He might be one of the two or three quickest players in the country and is an explosive athlete who can really score the basketball. Carson still needs to work on his court vision, but he took another big step this summer to landing somewhere in the first round.

PLAYER CARD

25
Dakari Johnson
SCHOOL: Kentucky
AGE: 17
HT/WT: 6-10, 250
POS: C
Freshman: No stats

Johnson is the sixth player on our board from Kentucky and, were he likely to start as a freshman, would probably be 10 to 15 spots higher. There's a dearth of centers on our board, and Johnson is the only one who really plays like a traditional, back-to-the-basket big man. He's strong, physical and should provide a boost off the bench for the Wildcats this season behind Cauley-Stein.

PLAYER CARD

26
Aaron Harrison
SCHOOL: Kentucky
AGE: 18
HT/WT: 6-5, 210
POS: SG
Freshman: No stats

That's right. We have seven Wildcats in our top 30. That has never happened before. Harrison doesn't get the love his brother receives despite the fact in many ways, they are the same kind of player. Andrew's ability to play the point is what really sets him apart. Aaron is strong, athletic and can score from everywhere, too.

PLAYER CARD

27
Doug McDermott
SCHOOL: Creighton
AGE: 21
HT/WT: 6-7, 210
POS: SF
23.2 PPG
7.7 RPG
49.0 3PT%

McDermott has been dominating college hoops for three seasons, but he didn't really capture the imagination of scouts until he showed up at the Team USA minicamp in Vegas this summer. There, McDermott did what he always does, knocking down shots from everywhere on the floor. But this time he was doing it against other NBA players. In short, he looked like he belonged among them, and with shooting at a premium in the NBA, he should end up landing somewhere in the first round.

PLAYER CARD

28
Isaiah Austin
SCHOOL: Baylor
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 7-0, 215
POS: PF
13.0 PPG
8.3 RPG
1.7 BPG

Austin was ranked as a lottery pick at the start of last season, but the more scouts saw of him the more questions they had. He has great size and is very skilled for a big man. But his thin frame and stuck-in-between game have really hurt his stock. Is he a 5 or a 4? Right now hes neither, and until he starts to thrive at one or the other, scouts will continue to see him as a tweener.

PLAYER CARD

29
James McAdoo
SCHOOL: North Carolina
AGE: 20
HT/WT: 6-9, 223
POS: PF
14.4 PPG
7.3 RPG
1.1 BPG

McAdoo was also ranked in the lottery on our Big Board last year, but a disappointing sophomore season caused his stock to tumble. There's still hope for McAdoo. He has all the physical characteristics you want in a power forward. He's long, explosive and very quick. But he has to dramatically improve his offensive game. If he does, he'll move up 10 spots on our Board. But, he's going to have to prove it.

PLAYER CARD

30
Vasilije Micic
COUNTRY: Serbia
AGE: 19
HT/WT: 6-4, 185
POS: PG
12.9 PPG, 4.8 APG at U-19s

Micic was another international breakout player at the U-19s this summer. The Serbian point guard averaged 12.9 PPG and 4.8 APG and made the argument that he was the best young pure point guard in the world. Of all the point guards on our Big Board, Micic has the purest game. He is simply special when it comes to seeing the floor. He's not a great athlete, but appeared good enough to get wherever he wanted to against Team USA's guards.
PLAYER CARD

Next five in: Next five in: Rodney Hood, G/F, Duke; Adreian Payne, F/C, Michigan State; Rasheed Sulaimon, G, Duke; T.J. Warren, F, NC State; Branden Dawson, F, Michigan State

You'd think Ford would learn his lesson one day.

.

in there I'm gonna be livid.

I ain't seen the kid even play but let someone else take a non-shooting wing-athlete who grew up Down Under.

No, just no.

they're local.

you apparently do though

from my neck trying to sway dudes to go to Kentucky. Most of the time there eyes pop when I pull out a big wad of bills and give them to an 8 year old, his name is typically Laphonso (I don't know why, but that's his name). But I tell Laphonso to run to Mickey D's and get all the kids hooping at the playground Quarter Pounders and then a big jug of Fruit Punch from the corner store. It impresses them, seed planted, then I bounce.

I like big point guards, but he struggled to score at the college level so I can't see him being a star in the NBA

Like... ever.

He wasn't a guy people expected 16+ ppg from in COLLEGE, much less the pros. You draft him for other reasons (height, length, passing, playmaking, etc).

Exum can fill the bucket. It's the reason he's getting so much hype.

Their skill sets aren't really too comparable from my understanding.

and if you can't do that you need to be a plus defender on the other end and I don't really see that in MCW either, he's basically a poor man's Livingston post-injury

As MCW was never supposed to be the type of player Exum is.

The rest I couldn't care less about, though I think if MCW can defend, get 4 boards, 7 dimes, and 2 steals per game, nobody would grip that he's not a strong bet to ever score more than 13 PPG for a season. You don't NEED 16+ PPG to be a good starter in the pros, but if you don't, you need the skill set to compensate elsewhere. Whether MCW has that or not is up for debate...

... but Exum and MCW isn't really a comparison.

>As MCW was never supposed to be the type of player Exum is.

what is he supposed to be? if you draft a guy in the lottery you generally expect him to be a starter but I'm not sure MCW is that for the reasons I stated.


>The rest I couldn't care less about, though I think if MCW can
>defend, get 4 boards, 7 dimes, and 2 steals per game, nobody
>would grip that he's not a strong bet to ever score more than
>13 PPG for a season.

That's the thing, I don't seem him being double digit scorer in the NBA, people are just going to back up and dare him to shoot. And he doesn't have the athleticism of a Rondo to get to the rim regularly.

>You don't NEED 16+ PPG to be a good
>starter in the pros, but if you don't, you need the skill set
>to compensate elsewhere. Whether MCW has that or not is up for
>debate...

>... but Exum and MCW isn't really a comparison.

you're right, its not but they're similar in size and play the same position

If he isn't a double-digit scorer, unless his rebounds and assists are beastly, you're right that he was a stretch for a lotto pick.

I think his ceiling, best case scenario, is somewhere around 14/5.5/8.5/3 with defense and height and length. Which is totally worth lotto. I think, realistically, by year 3, he needs to be able to do 12/4/7/2.25 to show he's making it happen. I wouldn't be surprised at all if he struggled mightily this year...

... which kind of makes him perfect for the Sixers at that late lotto spot. They wanna tank, and they wanna take the necessary time to develop their raw talent in MCW and Noel.

Will he make it by Year 3 there? Who knows. I like McCollum more, but he wasn't available, and MCW's ceiling is def higher than Larkin or Wolters.

Kendall, one of the best passers in college hoops over the last decade, was also one of the slowest PGs I've ever seen drafted. He was savvy enough to fake it on D against the crazy weak PGs of the ACC (I would've killed to see Kyrie play him just once), but he moves through molasses.

MCW has a much better basic pro skill set. The only things Kendall had on him were passing (which he struggled with adjusting in his first year in the pros) and the occasional 3 point shot was likelier to go in from him. In terms of things you look for from pros, MCW did everything else better and has a much higher ceiling.

Even rational UNC fans would've said Kendall's best pro chances were to be a totally serviceable relief man off the bench.

had Marshall rated higher than MCW, I guess we'll see...

Ways that Cuse fans, UNC fans, and hoops fans alike can agree upon.

Kendall was more polished but clearly has the lower ceiling.
Kendall is clearly better from outside, MCW is clearly better at getting to the basket.
Kendall is not comparable size wise to what MCW brings to the table at a pro level.
MCW moves faster than Kendall. Notably.
Even if you're a doubter because of the zone, MCW is very clearly a better defender than Kendall. More active in the passing lanes, faster, and more obvious physical gifts to play defense.
I don't think even Cuse fans would say MCW was a better passer in college than Kendall.

Kendall is a great example of the type of player who will stick because he does one thing on an elite level. I think he was a reach in the lottery, but he deserved a first round selection. Safe backup pick. Hard worker, brilliant passer, unlikely to bust outright.

MCW is a great example of the type of player who is very raw but has a high ceiling, the type of player we see selected late lotto time and again. He's more likely to bust outright than Kendall, but since he's also far more likely to be a valuable starter than Kendall, I think late lotto was the right area for him, especially in a draft with not as many players with "high ceilings."

EXACT SAME. I don't think any 2 players have exact same skillset, lol

Bottom line is they're both pass first guys who struggle to score

>Ways that Cuse fans, UNC fans, and hoops fans alike can agree
>upon.
>
>Kendall was more polished but clearly has the lower ceiling.
>Kendall is clearly better from outside, MCW is clearly better
>at getting to the basket.
>Kendall is not comparable size wise to what MCW brings to the
>table at a pro level.
>MCW moves faster than Kendall. Notably.
>Even if you're a doubter because of the zone, MCW is very
>clearly a better defender than Kendall. More active in the
>passing lanes, faster, and more obvious physical gifts to play
>defense.
>I don't think even Cuse fans would say MCW was a better passer
>in college than Kendall.
>
>Kendall is a great example of the type of player who will
>stick because he does one thing on an elite level. I think he
>was a reach in the lottery, but he deserved a first round
>selection. Safe backup pick. Hard worker, brilliant passer,
>unlikely to bust outright.

Marshall wasn't considered a reach at the time, some people had him going higher than that.

>MCW is a great example of the type of player who is very raw
>but has a high ceiling, the type of player we see selected
>late lotto time and again. He's more likely to bust outright
>than Kendall, but since he's also far more likely to be a
>valuable starter than Kendall, I think late lotto was the
>right area for him, especially in a draft with not as many
>players with "high ceilings."

Does he really have a high ceiling? He'll be 22 at the start of the season, I'm not sure how much he can improve, I think he'll struggle to put up Jeremy Lin numbers. Plus he's kinda dumb, didn't he get caught stealing a bathrobe or something? Lol, not exactly the kind of decision-making you want from your point guard.

How is he so old as a college sophomore anyway? Did he flunk a couple grades or was he one of those guys that was intentional held back to make him appear to be a better prospect?

Marshall was in an exceptionally weak PG class. The second best PG from that class right now is a battle between Tony Wroten and Marquis Teague. This year had Burke, McCollum, MCW, Larkin, Wolters, Schroder, Canaan, McCallum, Green, Siva, etc.

So if Marshall is "ranked higher," it's not head to head with MCW, it's via relative positional battle.

If he's starting this year, I think he'll struggle overall. But like you said, Philly is tanking anyway.

I do think he'll put up fairly impressive steals, rebounds(for a PG), and maybe assists numbers - his court vision is really good, but not having any scorers on that squad could limit him here. But he will likely struggle to score this year, shoot a poor %, and turn it over too much.

Obviously his outside J needs work, but he really needs to improve at scoring in the lane when he's not able to get all the way to the basket. To me, he should be able to do a lot of damage in the lane with a floater type shot.

It's difficult to know, because Syracuse played pretty much no man to man at all the last few years.

But he seems to have a lot of the physical attributes needed to be a good defender.

I'd be stunned if he gets fewer than 2 steals per 36 right out of the gate.

He anticipates well.

Fits into my Philly better than you think agenda...

>

Dude is a throwback back to the basket forward and strong as shit seemingly.


17? Damn...

-I doubt 7 go, even if they hang another one.

-Glenn Robinson III over Poythress. Ha! (c) Prodigy

-Jarnell Stokes over anyone we start. Ha! (c) Prodigy. That fat out of shape I never knew how to stretch dude ain't a 1st round talent. Generic Don Reid big country bumpkin.

-If these assholes don't go somewhere with this Montrezl Harrell bullshit.

>-I doubt 7 go, even if they hang another one.

Some of the guys that get less playing time could take the Poythress/WCS route, stay, get more skilled, get more PT, become more of a leader, and improve stock in 2015's less packed draft.

>-If these assholes don't go somewhere with this Montrezl
>Harrell bullshit.

Unless Harrell is an All-American or Louisville comes close to defending the title, I doubt he leaves early.

Him and Mudiay could be the best 1-2 backcourt punch in years.

He is an all around talent and they need a boost to get back to their glory days, Jabari could be that anchor in a Grant Hill type of way.


I watched him play and he isn't as cutthroat as some of the others coming out. He is what Evan Turner was supposed to be but better but still he should stick it out at Duke and ball come out 2016

Honestly, I'd be stunned if he stays a second year, but if we truly get that Jones/Okafor package, I can see the temptation to stay and contend if he's content on campus.

I can't envision a scenario in which he's on the court for Duke as an upperclassman. Just don't see it.

> they need a boost to get back
>to their glory days

Duke has been known for developing players and having players who tend to be all around and not just one and done cats.

Jabari is one of the best all around players SINCE Grant Hill and I think it would be good for both parties if he did stay 3 years or so, though it won't happen.


Kyrie barely played there and there has been a drop off in talent, so where am I wrong or baiting.



I like Jabari, but I even know Wiggins has more of a killer instinct. Jabari should have a nice transition and maybe can be what Grant was before imjury...


...Duke needs someone like that for the next 3-4 years...

We've won a title in the last four years and we've been a top two seed the other years. Derailed by injury one year, derailed by personality clash the other, and derailed last year at season's end by the best team in the tournament.

lol @ drop off in talent since Kyrie, when Kyrie was only two years ago, we have the second best trio of underclassmen in America this year, and we're front-runners for the top recruits next year.

Unless by "glory days," you mean "days in which all players stayed three years or more," in which case, well, that system really isn't sustainable every year in today's college hoops world. Every competitive program is gonna lose players to the draft as underclassmen, especially when you get a top 5 recruit most every year, as Duke has three of the last four.

But "glory days" implies something about achievement. Whether you intended it or not. And while I'd rather have four titles than one, I've felt good about our chances three of the last four years (four out of five including this year), which from a fan perspective is pretty great.

I replied way too much here. I'm out.

the more his stock will drop

Like early Antoine Walker or a much better and bigger Tobias Harris.

some will get better.
some won't give a shit, it's not what they do.
some weren't good and made themselves good.
small minority always were.

its a crapshoot. so at that age you play to the plus attributes in a kid's game, and move your teams around him accordingly.

Parker looks to be pretty heavy legged and I don't think he'll be able to keep up with NBA wings and I don't know if wants to bang with the big boys down low

... plenty of guys with less-than-elite athleticism are serviceable defenders in the NBA.

I never heard the "Paul Pierce is a shitty defender" argument, for example.

ability, but guys at the 3 are generally the best all around athletes on the floor. You need to be a pretty good athlete to stay with guys like that.

Pierce was never known as a defender before KG got there. He really wasn't known for anything other than being Walker's sidekick. It's funny to see people try to re-invent him now.

He can't handle the Unhandleables (Bron, KD), but he's savvy enough to stay in front of and frustrate most 3s in the pros.

Since every hype about Jabari has focused on his attitude and work ethic in addition to skill, I have no reason to think he can't play serviceable D at worst against most NBA 3s.

Although he'll be playing the 4 next year, so we'll see what develops.

if jabari's hoops IQ is as high as they say it is, he'll be fine.
plus in utah w/ a favors or philly w/ a noel, or milwaukee n Sanders, if he's really a turnstile, he'll be paired with a plus rim protector.

i think he'll be fine.

Remember, there was no zone in his era

Its actually easier to hide bad defenders in a zone

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Allegedly his jumpshot is "better" than Anthony
and has a "higher IQ," both of which are laughably
false


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

He won't score like Melo though.

But he does many things well.

He's a big body too. Has fat man potential too, so he has to watch that.

>He won't score like Melo though.

Which means he will score like 'Melo

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

but he didn't score like Melo.

Just because he could do more.

handle: P

post: melo

shot: melo

passing: P

last shot: P

>last shot: P

Oddly, Pierce was stat padding on worse teams than
Carmelo has EVER played for prior to KG and Ray Ray
coming

Weird how that's changed Pierce's narrative completely

Now you guys call him a "winner"

He was once a soft pussy Cali scorer who got shut the
fuck down COLD by Ron Ron


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

they made the ECF and ECSF before Toine went crazy and they got sorry.

>>last shot: P
>
>Oddly, Pierce was stat padding on worse teams than
>Carmelo has EVER played for prior to KG and Ray Ray
>coming
>
>Weird how that's changed Pierce's narrative completely
>
>Now you guys call him a "winner"

well, he was finals MVP...whatddaya want, man? he won.

>He was once a soft pussy Cali scorer who got shut the
>fuck down COLD by Ron Ron

things change

speaking of change...you can have the .4 rebounding edge. by the time he pauly's age, that'll change.

Pierce was a:
better dribbler (left and right)
better passer
better finisher around the basket
better long ranger shooter
better in the clutch

Melo is a:
better in the post

They're equal mid-range. And I'm even more inclined to give the nod to Pierce, but I call this one even.

They're also equal at getting to the line and free throw shooters.

Simply a coach's or defenders plan to shut down Pierce in his prime is a lot more complex than shutting down Melo. You have a lot more to be worried about.

>they made the ECF and ECSF before Toine went crazy and they
>got sorry.


Interesting. I'm taking notes.

Wonder where Carmelo's 6'10 "co-star" has been

Doesn't stop y'all from shitting on 'Melo ENDLESSLY

>speaking of change...you can have the .4 rebounding edge. by
>the time he pauly's age, that'll change.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>>they made the ECF and ECSF before Toine went crazy and they
>>got sorry.
>
>
>Interesting. I'm taking notes.
>
>Wonder where Carmelo's 6'10 "co-star" has been
>
>Doesn't stop y'all from shitting on 'Melo ENDLESSLY
>
>>speaking of change...you can have the .4 rebounding edge. by
>>the time he pauly's age, that'll change.
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

I'm with that, thanks

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

as long as i get to say pierce is simply a champ with the same indifference without you offering qualifications.

>Oddly, Pierce was stat padding on worse teams than
>Carmelo has EVER played for prior to KG and Ray Ray
>coming
>
>Weird how that's changed Pierce's narrative completely
>
>Now you guys call him a "winner"
>
>He was once a soft pussy Cali scorer who got shut the
>fuck down COLD by Ron Ron

Interesting

I'm taking notes here

I think you'll regret saying that, Ba

Let me look up Pierce's playoff success prior to
KG and Ray Allen getting there...I'll be back in
a second

Let me look up Pierce's "prime" seasons, his big
stat padding seasons...wonder how relevant his teams
were

Let me check this one out

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I just want some consistency here

Because everyone who saw him play says he was
at his best the year PRIOR to Ray Allen and KG's
arrival


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

maybe melo can do the same. prolly not.

>maybe melo can do the same. prolly not.


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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

squads, as soon as he left they fell off the map

Pierce was the best player. To one was the most vocal player.

once he had the ball, it was over.

pierce was by far the better/more important player. walker was just loud, fat, and shimmied.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

on those teams, he was a broke man's Lebron

they played him as a point forward, but he wasn't good at it because he's a ballhogging chucker.

he took 21 shots a game! 21 shots!!! he was the 4th best 3 pt shooter on the team who got steady minutes. so why'd he take 8 a game. 8 a fucking game. he fucking chucked. GTFOH.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

>they played him as a point forward, but he wasn't good at it
>because he's a ballhogging chucker.
>
>he took 21 shots a game! 21 shots!!! he was the 4th best 3 pt
>shooter on the team who got steady minutes. so why'd he take 8
>a game. 8 a fucking game. he fucking chucked. GTFOH.

That was by more by design than anything, nobody else on that team besides him and Pierce could score. His chucking still led them to the best record they had since Larry Bird retired.

and their defense improved. Walker didn't lead them talentwise except in shimmies and bad three point shots.

there was no reason for Walker to take more shots than pierce. none. except that he was a ballhoggedy chucker who was a good passer when he passed. but he liked chucking a lot more. there's a reason Pierce was able to nearly replicate the W/L record two years after walker left with Ricky fucking Davis as his #2. because walker wasn't that good.

and for a point forward/team leader, why come he had fewer assists, fewer points (but more shots!) and identical rebound numbers as pierce in the playoffs? thought leaders led in playoff games? why was pierce the one who led the great comeback in game 2 vs. the nets?

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

blue goggled UK Superfan here. Toine became a hinderance when he shot too much.

bottom line is Pierce never won shit before he hooked up with KG and Ray.

HE got punked and swept by Ron Artest in the playoffs.

He was the "leader" of the worst USA Basketball team with NBA players ever.

>there was no reason for Walker to take more shots than pierce.
>none. except that he was a ballhoggedy chucker who was a good
>passer when he passed. but he liked chucking a lot more.
>there's a reason Pierce was able to nearly replicate the W/L
>record two years after walker left with Ricky fucking Davis as
>his #2. because walker wasn't that good.

you mean the year they made the playoffs with a 36-46 record?

>and for a point forward/team leader, why come he had fewer
>assists, fewer points (but more shots!) and identical rebound
>numbers as pierce in the playoffs? thought leaders led in
>playoff games? why was pierce the one who led the great
>comeback in game 2 vs. the nets?

lol, I said he was a team leader I never said he was a "great" leader.

Why did Pierce allow him to take all those shots?

that was the year they tanked.

-----------
Y'all stupid...should've tanked for Lebron/Wiggins in 2014 -Rex LongFellow

It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

pre-KG/Ray...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/BOS/2004.html

how motivated he will be once he has a million dollars in his pocket

And we've had a few folks who could have gone that route.

The closest any Duke player has gotten to being called fat was the absurd Kyrie body fat percentage cysage at the combine.

If there's a Duke fattie, it was before my time.

I think I have his autograph somewhere.

wiggins gotta be lebron and jabari gotta be melo...and neither plays ANYTHING like either.

I say Grant Hill, but he can play 4 cause of his size but he is a natural guard. His jumper is nice, but he doesn't use it as much. If he can keep improving with his D, he will be a great all around player. I don't think he should even consider the 4 or try to bang with them when he is a perimeter player.

Inevitable with all the ridiculous hype for 90% high schoolers and internationals. This years "weaker" class is probably a big reason for it too.

i looked at chris walker and started laughing. he an ol' try hard, no skill havin undersized bamma. he ain't a top 10 pick

I think he'll inevitably go end of first, beginning of second round. Which is perfect for him, exactly where he should go, and where expectations won't be unrealistic.

Plus the Paul George comparison was strange.

"If he can transition from the 4 to the 3, then he could be Paul George-ish."

WHAT?!? lol

he'll be making his walker = faried comparison by new year's.

him a pocket full of money is pretty much a crapshoot

... and struggle to immediately control the higher level of play. They stay "potential future pros"... but plenty of top Rivals recruits are not the same ranking in the draft as they were coming into college.

attention to high school rankings because a lot of other factors are in play such the level of competition their playing against and the system or lack thereof that they may be playing in.

Check out the Survivor NCAA post, should be on the first or second page. We need more bodies.