They all 23
all shooting guards (essentially)
i know ppl probably thinking 1 of those names doesn't belong lol
but it's fair to include him given this: http://tinyurl.com/klp8v7g
now PICK

Poll question: Which 23 yr old would you rather have going forward?

Poll result (39 votes) PG (15 votes) Vote Harden (20 votes) Vote Klay (1 votes) Vote Reke (3 votes) Vote

.

And he's not a shooting guard, like, at all.

There's 2 combo guards, one of whom is good but
peaked at age 19 and put up great stats on a
horrible team

And a shooter who can't handle the ball.


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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

and i'm not sure what height or athletic ability has to do with the question
he came in the league as a SG and if they keep granger he'll probably go back there full time and born (never) ready ass can go back to being the JR jr. 6th man that he is

>and i'm not sure what height or athletic ability has to do
>with the question

They have everything to do with evaluating upside

And Tyreke been stat padding with bums

Horrible poll

This poll is rigged to be a veiled Nyquil post, and
that is fine because I like Nyquil

But just make the post

Don't insult our intelligence

>he came in the league as a SG and if they keep granger he'll
>probably go back there full time and born (never) ready ass
>can go back to being the JR jr. 6th man that he is

Born Ready will be fine off the bench. Unlike JR he won't
be an embarrassment to the black race and won't shoot the
ball too much

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

and criticize the OP for including George in his poll smh

>>he came in the league as a SG and if they keep granger he'll
>>probably go back there full time

If that's the case, which it will be next season, he has every right to include George in this poll question

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

---------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

because that's more than likely the position he will be playing if the Pacers decide to keep Granger which they've indicated they are...

>because that's more than likely the position he will be
>playing if the Pacers decide to keep Granger which they've
>indicated they are...


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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

WAY better defender than any of them other niggas
and a better all around game
poor shooter from the floor but fuck it so is melo and he's a "pure scorer"
any of these dudes could avg 20-25pts a night i think
but PG is the only one to have shown ability as a lock down defender

>poor shooter from the floor but fuck it so is melo and he's a
>"pure scorer"

http://tinyurl.com/5mv9pl


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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I could see him getting better and fully rounding out his game.

Elite defender, never.

good defender, probably not.


With a good team and good team principles, he could be a solid team defender.

lebron went from being hated on for not playing defense to being a perennial DPOY candidate in the span of 5-6 yrs so it's possible i guess

that can match up with 1-4 and sometimes a 5. Harden will never have that versatility as a defender or the ability to challenge shots at the rim. He can be a good pete miter defender if he works at it but I doubt he'll ever be close to PG in that area.

>lebron went from being hated on for not playing defense to
>being a perennial DPOY candidate in the span of 5-6 yrs so
>it's possible i guess
>

mainly because of his lateral quickness, hops, and cat like reflects
but considering ppl like tony allen are elite defenders i'm not sure all that is necessary to be effective
(i guess he conserves energy only playing 1 side of the ball but still)

Athletiscm. But he had quick hands, great instincts and never had the burden that Harden has as a scorer. But yea, we basically on the same page

>mainly because of his lateral quickness, hops, and cat like
>reflects
>but considering ppl like tony allen are elite defenders i'm
>not sure all that is necessary to be effective
>(i guess he conserves energy only playing 1 side of the ball
>but still)

It's almost comical to watch which Wade will show up on defense on any particular possession... the one that destroys passing lanes and terrifies shooters on closeouts, or the one that falls asleep on cuts and leaks out way early. He's almost on that Meangelo where he gives up as many big plays as he creates.

why even include klay/reke?

.

George is close, because Harden will never defend like George can... but Harden did a hair under 26 points, 5 boards, 6 dimes, 2 steals, and half a block per game this year at age 23, in his first year of being the focal point of an offense. I love love love that potential going forward.

.

>George is close, because Harden will never defend like George
>can... but Harden did a hair under 26 points, 5 boards, 6
>dimes, 2 steals, and half a block per game this year at age
>23, in his first year of being the focal point of an offense.
>I love love love that potential going forward.

Which is somewhat trivial in the regular season but more crucial in big games.
_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is the best hip-hop related internet radio show
http://thecombatjackshow.com/

bumping Don Biggavell damn I miss my guy

Paul's an excellent utility player, but I don't know that he's the go-to guy. OE is off with his Joe Johnson comparison because George is a legit threat on both sides of the ball. I don't know that Joe as the third best guy on any team with two other stars makes them a title threat, but on any team that already has two certified stars, Paul George as your third guy is beastly. It remains to be seen what Indy does from here, but I suspect Granger gets shopped heavy for point guard and some depth.

Meanwhile, Harden has shown he can be the man and is ideal for most teams. I do think when looking at the overall balance of an established team, adding George would probably be a better bet than adding Harden simply due to the greater dynamics he brings and the fact that he wouldn't need the ball as much. Harden clearly wants to be the Alpha and that probably wouldn't work as well.

>Paul's an excellent utility player, but I don't know that
>he's the go-to guy. OE is off with his Joe Johnson comparison
>because George is a legit threat on both sides of the ball.

No, they aren't alike.

They are just both Nyquils.

I am not comparing their games.

They are just in the same clade.

>don't know that Joe as the third best guy on any team with two
>other stars makes them a title threat, but on any team that
>already has two certified stars, Paul George as your third guy
>is beastly.

Well, that isn't really saying much.

It remains to be seen what Indy does from here,
>but I suspect Granger gets shopped heavy for point guard and
>some depth.
>
>Meanwhile, Harden has shown he can be the man and is ideal for
>most teams. I do think when looking at the overall balance of
>an established team, adding George would probably be a better
>bet than adding Harden simply due to the greater dynamics he
>brings and the fact that he wouldn't need the ball as much.
>Harden clearly wants to be the Alpha and that probably
>wouldn't work as well.
>
>


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>>don't know that Joe as the third best guy on any team with
>two
>>other stars makes them a title threat, but on any team that
>>already has two certified stars, Paul George as your third
>guy
>>is beastly.
>
>Well, that isn't really saying much.

Your third best player can be a good player, but not necessarily one that elevates the team. George does so many things well that him being the third best player would elevates the entire team like a genuine star does. The point is that the specific things he does (which is damn near everything, really) has a significantly greater overall impact than when he's your Alpha or sidekick.

Lamar Odom was a great example; as the Lakers third option, he became a nightmare for teams on many nights. It was a natural position for him and he flourished. A third player who was merely a scorer or defender or play maker or rebounder doesn't have that sort of overall impact, but a utility player like this makes the entire team extremely dangerous.

Shawn Marion might be the best example in the last 15 years. He was a miserable player to deal with for opposing teams as a third option because he was freely able to do all the things he did well. Great player with superstar attributes in that given role, but he wasn't a superstar.

A lot of guys can do that on a lower level, but guys that can give great all around star-level performances as the third man without the need to be an Alpha don't grow on trees. They're a valuable commodity.

Lamar Odom is a perfect example of a Nyquil, especially
when he was young and skinny and in shape. He learned to
play hard later, but by that time his athleticism had
left him...he was damn near on Bamma status with the
Lakers.

That might happen to Nyquil.

If y'all concede that then you've pretty much conceded
the entire Nyquil scouting report agenda.

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

but i went to a lot of hawks games between 2005 and 2007 and Joe Johnson was no lower than the 3rd best SG in the league

>but i went to a lot of hawks games between 2005 and 2007 and
>Joe Johnson was no lower than the 3rd best SG in the league

But Joe Johnson does fall asleep. He has a skillset bigger
than Dwayne Wade's. Can shoot far better. Can handle just
as good. Is taller and longer. Is even as willing a passer.

He's not as good because Joe Johnson is a Nyquil and Wade
is a true bread alpha dog all-time great.

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

in ATL lead a team further that Harden has

I'm not going to debate JJ vs JH. This was Harden's first time going it alone, and on a young team lacking much additional star power to boot. JJ had Josh and Al and Jamal and several years to grow into a leadership role with Josh and Al. It's a night and day difference.

At any rate the *context* of Joe was about what Paul would give a team as a third man vs what Joe would give as a third man. Paul is an exceptional utility player who does everything and could elevate an entire team with that unique skillset+his size. Joe doesn't give you that.

go start a JH vs JJ poll or something cause that's not at all what I was getting at.

George is and will be one of those players whose a jack of all trades but a master of no particular aspect of the game. He's not a lead man but will be a great co-star.

alpha dog shit is overrated cause now days you still need another elite player on the team to win a chip anyway

and really i'm not sure why ppl are arguing definitively that PG is not an alpha dog....we saw him basically will the pacers to two wins this series
did yall niggas forget the game 2 shots THAT fast, gosh
yea he disappeared last night but harden and lebron disappeared for a whole finals...shit happens

but Dwight is not. He's enough of a talent to take you to the finals, but not a leader.

>and really i'm not sure why ppl are arguing definitively that
>PG is not an alpha dog....we saw him basically will the pacers
>to two wins this series
>did yall niggas forget the game 2 shots THAT fast, gosh
>yea he disappeared last night but harden and lebron
>disappeared for a whole finals...shit happens

Man, that shot he hit in gm 1 was a damn desperation shot, it ain't like it was a designed play. He shot it from 35 feet to get a shot off because time was running out. The Pacers were in that series primarily because of Roy Hibbert. PG was MIA on too many occasions on both offense and defense. I've watched him all season and he does a little bit of everything well but he doesn't stand out in any particular aspect of the game. Decent scorer/shooter...good passer...good rebounder...solid defender...not really a leader and no obvious intangibles

He's a star by accident. No one (not even him) saw him having the season he had. You're born w/an alpha dog mentality, it's not something you acquire and I can tell you that that's not who George is. He has a chance to become a "poor man's Scottie Pippen" which is nothing to downplay...*if* he reaches his potential.

He's a co-star, not a leading man.

player when he has a chance to play w/the best big man in the league?
C'MON, SON!!!

Harden averaged almost 27ppg...adding Howard would probably drop his average to around 23 which would mean he's still going to be the team's leading scorer.

Howard will throw in 20ppg 13/14rpg


>alpha dog shit is overrated cause now days you still need
>another elite player on the team to win a chip anyway

But that doesn't mean both of those elite players are going to be "go-to" players for their team. No matter how many elite players are on one team, they still have one who is the lead dog. Bron and Wade were the closest we've seen w/a team having two lead men but eventually over time that sorted itself out.
>
>

no one is carrying a team of bums to the finals anymore
only AI and lebron were good enough to do it in the modern era
so if you basically need GOOD teams to compete for titles now days
then wtf does "alpha dog" even mean?
leading scorer or go to closer? cause obviously PG can do that and will have opportunities on that non scoring ass pacers team
he already proved he can do it on the biggest stage. not sure what else you need to see

>then wtf does "alpha dog" even mean?
>leading scorer or go to closer? cause obviously PG can do that
>and will have opportunities on that non scoring ass pacers
>team
>he already proved he can do it on the biggest stage.

You mean, 7 points on 2/9 shooting? And vanishing in
two other games? And falling asleep guarding Lebron
TWICE in closing moments?

At least cop pleas for his abysmal EC Finals and just
"he's young"

But to have the audacity to lie?

Nigga

I have mad respect for you, and support black men in many
areas, even when things aren't looking up

But any more of that, and I'm going to have to call the
authorities

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

too soon?

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/227985/Paul-George-Hoping-For-Max-Contract

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ2TBvfzbKE&list=PL7D82D95FAF53C962

Unfortunately, since the chances are basically zero that he gets traded to play next to LBJ or Durant, he'll continue to be a fairly low efficiency scorer and not be the best player on a championship team.

Even though he's probably a better shooter than the percentages suggest and the only one on this list who can be a legit defensive terror, he's still a terrible ballhandler and doesn't get to the stripe enough for me (which suggests a lack of aggressiveness... and if you can find someone who goes from shooting 3 FTs a game to suddenly shooting an acceptable number per game four years into his career, please show me). Plus there's the whole Nyquil thing.

I'm taking Harden cause he's shown he can consistently bring that aggression on the offensive end and carry a team while still doing it with decent efficiency. And I know he's a terrible defender but I like his chances at becoming "non terrible" at defense over PG's chances of becoming "moderately efficient lead scorer".

n/m

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

here believing the shit
DAMN

I literally just jumped in minds, implanted that
shit and bounced.

Now I got niggas who don't even like me making the
exact same arguments, using the same language, everything.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

The Nyquil term planting was pretty brilliant, though.

Was talking more about Veelover and a few others.

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

instead of Paul George, lol

and he been doing it like that. PG is a badd boy however he has times when he stops, harden never stops and if he gets some needed help in the paint watch out!

Rarely do you find a player in his mold that can contribute in all aspects offensively while also being a premier perimeter defender.

PG will be all forgotten

they'll only get better

paul george is their best player, but he's not the reason they are good.

PG has more upside but I don't know if he can be the #1 option

umm wat

do cats really conflate "pretty" scoring w/ alpha-dog-ness to THAT high a degree?

game 7 of the ECF against the defending champs yet Harden is some how the "proven alpha-dog", lol

he's a beast. i fux w dude. but his "proven alpha" credentials are no more extensive than george's.

and why are klay and reke in this poll?

>he's a beast. i fux w dude. but his "proven alpha"
>credentials are no more extensive than george's.

And shit the bed in the elimination game


No alpha doggie

>do cats really conflate "pretty" scoring w/ alpha-dog-ness to
>THAT high a degree?

Hibbert was at least as big a reason for Indiana keeping up with Miami for the whole series and no one is running around anointing him the next franchise big. Sure he took advantage of a very advantageous matchup for him but he was also the biggest reason Miami had trouble scoring at times.

Hibbert just makes them even more better. Though no one could save that disaster of a bench.

If you replaced PG w/Danny Granger, the Pacers probably STILL take the Heat to 7 because their inside gm was the problem for the Heat...

PG isn't by nature a "go to" player....AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAME OUT OF HIS OWN MOUTH AFTER THIS SERIES DURING THE POST GM PRESS CONFERENCE. He said being a lead man is all new to him and he's going to have to GROW into that role. Don't be surprised if Granger is the Pacers first scoring option next season as he has been for the past few seasons and PG assumes more of a facilitator/do-a-little-bit-of-everything role. I already said PG became a star by accident...

A true 1st option type player is BRON...I mean BORN not bred. Harden been a 6th man since he came in the league and as soon as he went to a team where he was the focal point, he stepped right into that lead role as if he had been doing it his whole career...because that's who he is as a player.

George's comments after gm 4 especially caught my attention when asked does he have to be more aggressive...he said "not if Lance Stephenson continues to play the way he did."

That's not something an alpha dog is supposed to say...
Harden is naturally a lead man...PG is not but that's not taking anything from his game but Harden just looks more promising as a potential SUPERSTAR than PG

going to be a bit of a project coming out and few people thought he would be this far along. He just helped lead his team to game 7 of the ECF against the best player in the league and the best team in the league and held his own. He's barely even scracted the surface of what he can do. Harden wasn't ready to lead a team right out of the box when he first came into the league either. And Granger may not even be with the Pacers next season.

>going to be a bit of a project coming out and few people
>thought he would be this far along. He just helped lead his
>team to game 7 of the ECF against the best player in the
>league and the best team in the league and held his own. He's
>barely even scracted the surface of what he can do. Harden
>wasn't ready to lead a team right out of the box when he first
>came into the league either. And Granger may not even be with
>the Pacers next season.

I hear all that, and he's a fine player who does a little bit of everything but something in his demeanor screams "not a 1st option kinda player" but a very good complementary player on a championship contender. He has tons of potential and ppl are assuming that potential will eventually lead to him becoming an elite player...but you never know w/potential.

case and point: Joe Johnson...there was a time when it was predicted he would become an elite player in the league...based on his potential...and we're still waiting for him to become that player. He was always on the cusp but not quite in that upper echelon of players and this what I predict w/PG.

The knock all season long against Indiana was they had no real 'go to' player, a good team that lacked a player you could put the ball in their hands and they could go get you some buckets. That's a reflection of PG.

I know he was supposed to be a project coming out of college and this is only his 3rd season but this is Harden's 3rd season too and he was a 6th man in OKC, not a starter, a 3rd option and the minute he became the 1st option (like PG this yr.) in Houston he was BETTER than anyone thought he would ever be...because he embraced that role as a 1st option/alpha dog/lead man role because he was comfortable in that position...PG said himself he has "to grow into" the lead guy role.

And I'm not so sure one can grow into that role, either you have it or you don't. I think this is now why you hear the pacers management possibly keeping Granger when at first they were leaning towards trading him since PG was emerging into his own and becoming the face of the team but after these playoffs they're supposedly thinking of keeping him because they said he's more of a natural scorer than PG.

While George played fairly well against Lebron/Heat, it was still abt Hibbert along w/D West presenting mismatches inside that made that such a tough series. Like I said, you could've replaced PG w/Granger and I think that series still would've gone 7.

I don't think you can hold Roy Hibbert's level of play against Paul George and what he did during this playoffs.

a team with cap space/strong coaching/a scoring and distributing point/a hole at the 2-3 would do well to overpay for 2 years of "deprogramming" with Tyreke in order to get what could be 2 all-star level years.

thinking long run.. no free agents on a high level are signing up to play in a lot of these cities, especially with all the CBA incentive to re-up with your current squad. You have to take less money to leave in most cases.

If a team can buy low then work to get 'Reke to use his length to buy into a team defensive concept then he becomes an top 10 wing without making any offensive progress. (for real, he's only clearly trumped by Bron, PG, Melo, Harden, Durant, Kawhi, Iggy. In 2 years Kobe will be retired and Wade will be fully broke down)

Isn't that worth 4 years/36mil? He can't be as valuable to a winning team as George Hill? Sure you'd have stupid overreacting writers like Bill Simmons talking shit initially but when he settles in after a year or two and you have a coached-up talent at 8-9 mil..that's a sound investment.

the kings are basically bobcats West
so i'm not sure how much of his career is ballin on shitty team vs. he's being held back by a shitty organization
either way putting someone like that into a better situation will probably yield good results
i'm not really sure where the tyreke evans is shitty narrative comes from. maybe the regression from yr 1, iono. but the stats don't support the hate really
a lot of teams could use him tho. the bucks would be better off dumping jennings/ellis and going for a cheaper evans/reddick backcourt
sixers would be better off dumping turner in a trade or something and grabbing evans etc

I would love Tyreke if he was willing to either guard 3s full-time or come off the bench and get that serious 25-30 min a game run and finish games.

Apple/orange comparison. I think PG has more room to grow, plus he's got size. I'd take him for the long term. If it was for one year, I'd take Harden, he's closer to where he is gonna be right now, probably like two years away from his peak. Also depends, obviously, if you need a sword or a swiss army knife. Harden is a better scorer for sure, George does more things.

Harden needs to prove himself. He's clearly the better offensive player but has a history of disappearing when it matters.

Having said that, i'd still probably take Harden over PG w/ some reservation.

just seemed someone needed to say it.
-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

I expect plenty of 2/9, 7 point games from
Otto too, though

So you good


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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

the Heat to get away w/putting (hiding) Ray Allen on him of all ppl for heaven sakes

I kept saying to myself why isn't PG attacking Ray Allen. The Heat would do it for stretches in the game too...even w/a hobbled Wade, I felt like he should've exploited that matchup more.

You could've never gotten away in a playoff series w/putting Ray Allen on Harden for any length of time...or Wade either w/that gimpy knee of his.

He could have scored 40 points per game at Fresno State if he wanted to. He is more aggressive after a couple of seasons in the league, but he's had to develop the aggression.

>the Heat to get away w/putting (hiding) Ray Allen on him of
>all ppl for heaven sakes
>
>I kept saying to myself why isn't PG attacking Ray Allen. The
>Heat would do it for stretches in the game too...even w/a
>hobbled Wade, I felt like he should've exploited that matchup
>more.
>
>You could've never gotten away in a playoff series w/putting
>Ray Allen on Harden for any length of time...or Wade either
>w/that gimpy knee of his.

n/m

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

not really that bad

yet another W for me and L for many that gets underplayed around here. i remember tho. i remember him being better than steph and harden...yeah, all that.

but, as always, dudes gonna get away with it because this search function is ASSCAKE!

i don't think anybody was predicting dude to be a superstar
even after the rookie year
he could put up numbers if he got to dominate the ball

>i don't think anybody was predicting dude to be a superstar
even after the rookie year

nigga put up 20, 5 and 6 on 46% shooting as a rookie.

if ppl were hyping reke there would be an agenda around him
ppl barely talk about him here cause it was no buzz

they been hyping Lillard