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Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2117165
2117165, Duncan: best big man over 30Ömaybe under (partial swipe)
Posted by 85SOUTH, Tue Jan-22-13 12:12 PM
Itís sad no one is touching my manís skill level and complete game today.

http://www.poundingtherock.com/2013/1/17/3883630/on-duncans-historic-season-and-why-you-dont-know-about-it

At age 36 Duncan is putting up per game numbers that only one other guy his age has ever matched, with the caveat that Hakeem did it in just 50 games in a lockout shortened season while playing almost six more minutes a game. Duncan's per 36 minutes numbers of 20.5 points, 11.5 rebounds, 3.3 assists and 3.2 blocks are unprecedented for a 36-year old. Only Abdul Jabbar and Olajuwon have put up similar numbers after 30.

Those figures not only stand out when placed against former players. This season only Duncan has per game numbers that exceed 17 points, nine rebounds, 2 assist and 2 blocks. His defensive rebounding is elite, he's second in total blocked shots, and he has the best individual defensive rating in the league, according to Basketball-Reference.
2117190, i thought he was close to done 3 years ago
Posted by rob, Tue Jan-22-13 12:29 PM
and really done after memphis

everything since than has been a miracle and a blessing to watch. he doesn't really have anything left to do legacy wise....but it's great to enjoy.
2117212, It's good to see, because It's almost as if niggas forgot Duncan
Posted by AnonymousCoward, Tue Jan-22-13 12:39 PM
After Shaq's prime, the road to the title went through Timmy; not Kobe, not KG, not Wade, not none of them niggas, but Elmo. Revisionist historians talking greasy about him not being the go-to guy in the playoffs or about his prime being too short. Tim Duncan almost needs this resurgence so people remember how great he was.
2117396, Best Player & Career Of His Generation
Posted by Bombastic, Tue Jan-22-13 02:21 PM
2117415, RE: Best Player & Career Of His Generation
Posted by COOLEHMAGAZINE, Tue Jan-22-13 02:36 PM
Seriously.
2117419, Shaq's peaks were higher, but Duncan's career definitely better
Posted by celery77, Tue Jan-22-13 02:39 PM
2117431, rookie seasons 5 years apart
Posted by AnonymousCoward, Tue Jan-22-13 02:47 PM
Shaq is closer to being Robinson's generation than Duncan's.
2117432, but we saw 'em do battle on numerous occasions, it defined an era
Posted by celery77, Tue Jan-22-13 02:49 PM
early '00s Western Conference playoffs were defined by Duncan, Webber, and Shaq. I'm fine considering them classmates even if the overlap isn't exactly perfect. they're the torch-bearers of the "post-Jordan" generation to me.
2117461, 5 of Jordan's 6 titles happened during Shaq's career
Posted by AnonymousCoward, Tue Jan-22-13 03:10 PM
You like to think of him as a post-Jordan player, but he really isn't. He's the bridge from the Jordan era to the Post Jordan era.
2117498, he also won the chips in MJ's absence, so okay -- he's a "bridge"
Posted by celery77, Tue Jan-22-13 03:33 PM
him and Duncan are still contemporaries in my book, because their playoff battles largely defined the shape of the Western Conference from something like '00-'05.
2117543, for the purposes of this argument
Posted by rob, Tue Jan-22-13 04:30 PM
they played at the same time, and if shaq had been 5 years later in the league duncan might have a few less titles, so i'm fine with calling duncan #2 of his generation.

it isn't even debatable on peak vs longevity either. duncan would need to win another to make me even think twice.
2117765, RE: for the purposes of this argument
Posted by FILF, Tue Jan-22-13 10:41 PM
>they played at the same time, and if shaq had been 5 years
>later in the league duncan might have a few less titles,

More like Elmo would have had more chips, y'all musta forgot '99. Shaq didn't win a chip until his 8th year in the league, Elmo already had 3 by the end of his 7th. 3 of the 4 time Elmo's team didn't win the champions were the Shaq/Kobe 3peat teams. So, Elmo might have had more than 3 and if you take into account the 2000 post-season which he missed due to injury, Shaq/Kobe 3peat might have been a 2peat considering the Blazers had them down and out and the Spurs owned the Lakers during the 99-00 season.

Bottom line: Shaq was a late bloomer, Elmo was already in prime form from the day he was drafted. Thus, had Shaq and Elmo been in the same draft class, Shaq best years would have come after Elmo had become king of the hill.
2117788, don't matter. duncan wasn't beating dream and jordan.
Posted by rob, Tue Jan-22-13 11:30 PM
it's only a handful of dudes better than duncan, but dream, shaq, and jordan are all part of that group.
2117887, Every dog has his days but if you want to go that route:
Posted by FILF, Wed Jan-23-13 03:00 AM
Since you are copping out by bring up names from the dark ages as oppose to his peers, I'm going to let the numbers speak for themselves. It ain't like Hakeem and Elmo never faced each other, same with Cheese-Eyes. As long as they played in the games and were in that stat sheet, it counts:

Elmo NEVER lost to Hakeem 10-0: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=olajuha01

Cheese-Eyes couldn't throw a rock in the ocean against the twin towers: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=jordami01

I don't think there is a need for references against Shaq but just so you understand: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=duncati01&p2=onealsh01#stats_playoffs

With that said, Elmo is the only player out of all you listed that has won chips throughout his career starting from day 1 while the rest had growing pains followed by the proverbial peak and then fell off the face of the earth. May I add, Elmo has also been a better teammate and leader throughout his career than Shaq could ever wish to be.
2117889, please don't. that's just stupid.
Posted by rob, Wed Jan-23-13 03:13 AM
duncan never saw either player in their primes, which is what shaq dealt with. it cheapens the legacy of all 4 to bullshit on head-to-heads like that.

i really can't believe you're spouting shit about hakeem at 36 and michael at 39.
2117893, you are the one pulling cats from a different era
Posted by FILF, Wed Jan-23-13 04:06 AM
if you are claiming that they never faced each other in their primes then leave them out of this discussion. Otherwise, I'll present the evidence that exists.
2117596, eh, he was pretty young for those first two.
Posted by pretentious username, Tue Jan-22-13 05:19 PM
he was in the WC for the last two on a still-developing lakers team.
2117754, FOH....Elmo was finals MVP in his 2nd year
Posted by FILF, Tue Jan-22-13 10:16 PM
It ain't like Shaq came straight from high school. Dude had young Penny/Kobe and got SWEPT by the likes of post-prime Hakeem/young Elmo. Elmo had young Tony/Manu and won against PRIME Shaq/Kobe to back up the sweep of '99 w/ Admiral playing the role of wing-man. Through out, Shaq had a better wing-men than his adversaries. Wade/Penny/Kobe.....let's not even mention Nash and the Phoenix fiasco.
2117459, U Mad
Posted by FILF, Tue Jan-22-13 03:09 PM
2117506, Guy is amazing
Posted by ErnestLee, Tue Jan-22-13 03:41 PM
Still seeing lines like 21/17/6/4 from a guy his age is ridiculous. And he does it in limited minutes.
2117544, My fav player of his generation. Love everything about him
Posted by LA2Philly, Tue Jan-22-13 04:32 PM
2117586, I was just thinking yesterday, FUCK, this guy's teams are never out of
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Tue Jan-22-13 05:13 PM
contention.

the one year they were upended in the first round, guess what? he looked terrible and was playing at about 30%.

overall they are constantly competitive. never miss the playoffs. never lose in the first round. always have a strong record. dude is the russell of the free agency era.
2117622, He was perhaps the hardest Lakers foe to hate, truth be told.
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Jan-22-13 06:09 PM
What isn't there to love about the guy?

Nothing, other than being a thorn en route to one of Pat Riley's Only Two Things In Basketball (if you don't know what those two things are, you don't deserve to, as far as I'm concerned).

The Spurs as an organization is a complete class act and he's the perfect face for them.
2117626, 30 min/game is why his team is great now. Kobe/Lakers take notes
Posted by TRENDone, Tue Jan-22-13 06:13 PM
2117808, Shaq and Duncan were my 1-2 best players from 99-06
Posted by mistermaxxx08, Tue Jan-22-13 11:57 PM
Duncan is the Baddest Quietest Cat with much Jewelry and doesn't get his full due.

Props to him
2117888, His peers give him props every chance they get, nuff said
Posted by FILF, Wed Jan-23-13 03:07 AM
>Duncan is the Baddest Quietest Cat with much Jewelry and
>doesn't get his full due.