As the trade deadline approaches and every team I see talking about moves has to say "we're looking at adding a true 7-footer if that's possible, some size on the front line" I'm stuck thinking there just ISN'T that much size or interior grit left in the NBA. The days of Charles Oakley or Dale Davis existing solely to push guys around the middle just aren't with us any more.

Take a look at the top 20 rebounders in the NBA right now. JJ Hickson? Okay, he's a ball hawk with an A+ motor, but he's not exactly dominating the interior en route to a division crown. Demarcus Cousins? I mean if we subtract all the rebounds he might get boarding his own terrible shots, where does that leave us? And lord knows the Kings aren't 'good' because of his 'contributions.'

Rebounds Per Game
1. Dwight Howard-LAL 12.7
2. Zach Randolph-MEM 11.6
3. Nikola Vucevic-ORL 11.2
4. Omer Asik-HOU 11.2
5. Tyson Chandler-NYK 11.0
6. J.J. Hickson-POR 11.0
7. David Lee-GSW 10.9
8. Joakim Noah-CHI 10.7
9. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 10.4
10. Kenneth Faried-DEN 10.0
11. Al Jefferson-UTA 9.8
12. Carlos Boozer-CHI 9.7
13. Al Horford-ATL 9.6
14. Tim Duncan-SAS 9.6
15. Tristan Thompson-CLE 9.3
16. Greg Monroe-DET 9.2
17. Marcin Gortat-PHO 9.0
18. Reggie Evans-BRK 8.7
19. LaMarcus Aldridge-POR 8.6
20. Larry Sanders-MIL 8.6

easily referenced #s aside, how would you rank the best rebounders in the NBA right now? you know, dudes you'd actually feel comfortable sending to battle if you had to make a fantasy team to play the Bad Boy Pistons or the Pat Riley early '90s Knicks.

My list:

#1 - Zach Randolph (pains me to admit, but...)
#2 - Joakim Noah (everything about his interior game is boss right now)
#3 - Kenneth Fareid (and I think he'll only get better)
#4 - Tim Duncan (yeah, he's old, but yet again the Spurs are en route to 50 wins)
#5 - Tyson Chandler (dude who knows his strengths/limits inside = invaluable)
#6 - Nikola Vucevic (who I've only watched once this year but he was def. a live wire inside)

aside from that, maaaan -- that list above has a lot of guys who get rebounds because SOMEONE has to (and obviously they're talented in that regard) but I just don't see them really being difference makers if they were playing in a throw back era where they had to compete with guys like Hakeem, Ewing, the Admiral, Oakley, Rodman, Dale Davis, Karl Malone et. al.

maybe I'm wrong and you can tell me, but that's how it looks on this Friday morning after watching the champion Heat knock off LA with Pau + Dwight by just jumping the damn passing lanes all night long...

the following season 18 players did. The numbers could be the same adjusted for pace. I haven't bothered to figure it out.

maybe overall efficiency is up as team offenses learn how to better attack the aggressive team D's which weren't legal in the '90s due to the 'illegal defense' rule?

or actually, I wonder if you could trace the rise in 3FGAs with an increase in guard rebounding, because the longer shots generally mean longer rebounds. or my other thought is that team's have used analytics to move more towards a team rebounding scheme than an individual rebounder having all the responsibility to ball hawk.

but yeah -- I've never understood that. I remember the days when ~15/rebs per game was just required for the rebounding crown. now Dwight is kind pulling in 12/gm while every old head they can find for comment calls him soft? it's definitely a subtle sea change that I've yet to see a good explanation for...

because if you sort for wings that rebound its not that dudes do it more in general today...great all around guys like oscar, scottie, kidd, and paul show up. and show up in multiple seasons (and on multiple teams for guys like kidd and paul)

i think when they call him soft they mean its not a priority.

there isn't a good historical rebound state. rebound rates don't work because "available rebounds" just means "compared to everyone else on the court, how many rebounds did you get?" if its a pace or offensive system or 3 point line or everybody sucks issue...then its not gonna show up.

if that metric does work for you though, only guy since the 70s who reaaaally blows today away is rodman.

fourth in the league in rebound rate! fuck the pistons for not playing him more.

but i'm a big fan of Andre Drummond, & Reggie Evans should be on anyone's list. another name to look out for is Pekovic. real inconsistent on the boards but he's a beast

I remember Bogut giving Jo the business for years. And he's rarely had success against Dwight.

That's why I'm not sure he's an *elite* rebounder.

Though he *is* the most versatile, well rounded center in the game.

the smooth and seamless guys (think duncan) and the hardcore balls out energy guys (like a farried type). you find players with a bit of both, too (rodman).

right now i dont think there are very many smooth and seamless types.

also the top 20 isnt the best barometer with guys like love and varejao being injured and not qualifying

Love is an amazing positional rebounder who does all his work with the lower part of his body, earning position and holding it so he's there to get the board. I do think he's a great rebounder (but kinda ass at everything else an interior player is supposed to do, hence my faux-franchise PF stance w/ him).

now Varejao I would *love* to see play against the more physical era of the past because he's got that South American guile element to his game where he'll do anything he can to earn an advantage, almost Divac-esque in that regard (and I think we can all remember Divac being one of Shaq's most difficult matchups because he would find ways to use Shaq's strength against him). I would guess Sideshow Andy would have a loooot more enemies than friends in the league and that's the mark of a real opponent.

yeah, I'm sad Sideshow Andy is hurt, I thought he was going to be a real player to watch this year.

and Love is nice on the boards but fuck the rest of his game.

varejao has a non-stop motor, good leaping, very long arms and he goes for the ball.

love is kind of the opposite, he plays it smart, uses a formidable lower body and has very good hands.

i dont see these guys not being good rebounders in other eras and in some--with higher pace and shot attempts--they would have better numbers.

i am not saying these guys are rodman or anything, but no, i dont think like oakley and dale davis would make them shit their pants. well, maybe for other reasons, oakley was a pretty bad dude and dale davis looked like a fucking serial rapist.

aren't good?

Got it.

aside from that ---> *scoreboard*

You can't really question his basketball skill or talent. All he has to work on is his emotions in the game and shot selection.

That being said, he's one of the best rebounders in basketball. And one of the best big men in basketball as is.

n/m

Total Rebound Pct
1. Reggie Evans-BRK 23.7
2. Anderson Varejao-CLE 23.1
3. J.J. Hickson-POR 21.5
4. Andre Drummond-DET 21.2
5. Omer Asik-HOU 21.1
6. Nikola Vucevic-ORL 20.1
7. Zach Randolph-MEM 19.6
8. Tyson Chandler-NYK 19.3
9. Dwight Howard-LAL 19.2
10. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 18.9
11. Larry Sanders-MIL 18.7
12. Tim Duncan-SAS 18.6
13. Kenneth Faried-DEN 18.6
14. Carlos Boozer-CHI 18.1
15. Jared Sullinger-BOS 17.8
16. Al Jefferson-UTA 17.3
17. Zaza Pachulia-ATL 17.2
18. Andray Blatche-BRK 17.2
19. Tristan Thompson-CLE 17.1
20. Lamar Odom-LAC 17.0

Defensive Rebound Pct
1. Reggie Evans-BRK 32.7
2. Anderson Varejao-CLE 30.3
3. Omer Asik-HOU 30.1
4. J.J. Hickson-POR 28.7
5. Tim Duncan-SAS 28.6
6. Al Jefferson-UTA 27.8
7. Nikola Vucevic-ORL 27.5
8. Carlos Boozer-CHI 27.2
9. Dwight Howard-LAL 26.6
10. Larry Sanders-MIL 26.4
11. Lamar Odom-LAC 26.2
12. Andre Drummond-DET 25.7
13. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 25.7
14. Zach Randolph-MEM 25.0
15. Al-Farouq Aminu-NOH 24.9
16. Marcin Gortat-PHO 24.6
17. Kevin Garnett-BOS 24.5
18. Emeka Okafor-WAS 24.2
19. Tyson Chandler-NYK 24.0
20. Ed Davis-TOR 23.2

Offensive Rebound Pct
1. Anderson Varejao-CLE 16.6
2. Andre Drummond-DET 16.6
3. Roy Hibbert-IND 15.2
4. Tyson Chandler-NYK 15.1
5. Reggie Evans-BRK 14.9
6. J.J. Hickson-POR 14.9
7. Kenneth Faried-DEN 14.7
8. Andray Blatche-BRK 14.4
9. Zach Randolph-MEM 14.3
10. Tristan Thompson-CLE 13.9
11. Zaza Pachulia-ATL 13.3
12. DeAndre Jordan-LAC 13.2
13. Nikola Pekovic-MIN 13.1
14. Jared Sullinger-BOS 12.7
15. Derrick Favors-UTA 12.5
16. Nikola Vucevic-ORL 12.4
17. DeMarcus Cousins-SAC 12.4
18. Carl Landry-GSW 12.3
19. Brendan Haywood-CHA 12.0
20. Amir Johnson-TOR 12.0


some years these are pretty interesting splits but this year i don't see anything huge pop out. it is pretty clear looking at it who the best 5-10 rebounders in the nba are to me.

like I think I might have a better handle + J than him and that's saying A LOT

evans is an excellent defender, too. plus his TS% is .540, so even with his poor FT shooting, he's an efficient scorer (although obviously not a guy you ask to create). but outside of spacing, he's not HURTING a team on offense.

.

he's a value bench player. it's a bit confusing why he's been on so many teams when it seems like he's helped every one he's been on. maybe one of those things where he's a tough personality for the coaches / teammates to like? I'll never understand those journey men that make everyone notice all their positives every stop they make, they're easily some of the most fascinating characters in the NBA to me...

and I know people here don't want to hear it, but PART of that is because Lamarcus Aldridge primarily just blocks his man out so a ball hawk can suck in the board -- it's why Camby was nice alongside him, Pryzbilla, too, it's why Greg Oden would have been GREAT alongside him, it's WHY JJ Hickson is having a career year alongside him.

all credit to JJ because he is muscle + motor inside (plus an extremely quick leaper) and what he accomplishes for being so undersized is deserving of any/all plaudits he receives, but the Blazers biggest weakness at the moment is interior defense and it's why they're on the market for a true center even though Hickson is doing some damn work right now (unfortunately I don't think it's a long-term recipe for success in Portland).

but you know how i feel about dude...he's never rebounded well and i think it's silly that you'd resort to defending a system that makes one guy slightly better than he was before and the other guy way below where he could be.

i'm prepared to acknowledge that he plays well with rebounding and defensive specialists but he got his lunch handed to him in the paint when it mattered most and i can't trust him again.

he's not Zach Randolph. if anything he's the antithesis of Zach Randolph in every respect.

Terry Stotts has been using him extremely well and in the early season Neil Olshey seems to have a vision for the team which recognizes ball movement and highly technical players are what will be effective when you have main cogs like Aldridge + Batum + Lillard.

Aldridge + Batum are going to get bodied by Memphis every time they play. that's just inevitable. but Aldridge + Batum have proven that they can show more SKILL than quality teams on some nights and win. keep pushing in that direction and they'll be on the right side of .500 again.

(which is all I really ever defend LA on -- he's a winner. maybe not a sure-fire centerpiece on a contender (actually obviously not that) but he's good enough to win more than he loses in the NBA and that's more than many can say)

...Lamarcus Aldridge's rebounding. I watch almost every Blazers game, and he is a solid defensive rebounder and definitely an above-average offensive rebounder.

Definitely not an elite rebounder, but hey..... Yeah..... this thread.

by "definitely above average offensive rebounder" you mean "significantly below average for his position," right?

average PF: 3.7 offensive rebs per 48 minutes
aldridge: 2.9 offensive rebs per 48 minutes

to be fair, his career average is 3.8. so he's average.

Care to cite the source?

Also... I'd like to see all of the PFs who rank ahead of him. They must be really great players who play heavy minutes because they're such terrific rebounders.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013_leaders.html

...Kevin Garnett, who is clearly a well-below average rebounder for his position. One of the most average rebounders ever to play in the NBA, really.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/rebounds/sort/avg48Rebounds/count/41

He's also averaging more rebounds per 48 than Marc Gasol, who is nothing but a soft presence on defense and a guy who likes to play outside the paint.

These statistics tell the entire story. All of it.

team LA didn't need to drag his name into this thread when they already know it's gonna get muddied.

>and I know people here don't want to hear it, but PART of
>that is because Lamarcus Aldridge primarily just blocks his
>man out so a ball hawk can suck in the board -- it's why Camby
>was nice alongside him, Pryzbilla, too, it's why Greg Oden
>would have been GREAT alongside him, it's WHY JJ Hickson is
>having a career year alongside him.

wait until he know what he doin...22 and 14 all day.

Move along.