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Forum nameOkay Sports
Topic subjectSo,why isn't Lovie Smith a 1st option over any college coach?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=8&topic_id=2107712
2107712, So,why isn't Lovie Smith a 1st option over any college coach?
Posted by Cynthia_Rose, Wed Jan-09-13 09:19 PM
2107715, Everyone knows what Lovie is, college coaches bring unknown ceilings
Posted by Y2Flound, Wed Jan-09-13 09:21 PM
That can be good or bad, but Lovie was in Chicago for a long time, people know what he brings to the table

It's either what you want or not, but nothing about him is really exciting. Big name college coaches bring excitement, a big splash and leads to a fired up fan base. It might fail and you start over in 3 years, but that's why.
2107835, Pete Carrol versions 1 and 2; Nick Saban; Many others
Posted by Orbit_Established, Wed Jan-09-13 10:34 PM

Pete Carrol was horrible as an NFL coach his first
two tries

Nick Saban was a complete failure

Literally nothing about what you said makes sense.

Like, at all.



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "
2107852, Then read it again and be less combattive
Posted by Y2Flound, Wed Jan-09-13 10:46 PM
Big name college coach fires up the fan base...check

Big name college coach comes in with an unknown ceiling...check

Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't....check

so which part didnt make sense, because all you did was mention some times that it didn't work out, however all three of those checks remain.

He asked why it happens, not if it is guaranteed to work. I explained why it happens.
2107923, He's looking for one response and one response only
Posted by LA2Philly, Thu Jan-10-13 12:06 AM
2107991, Nevermind, you were agreeing with me
Posted by Y2Flound, Thu Jan-10-13 07:53 AM
.
2108003, The "ceiling" argument is an outright lie, sorry.
Posted by Orbit_Established, Thu Jan-10-13 08:21 AM

Bill Belichek and Mike Shanahan both coached
NFL teams and were fired (Browns and Raiders,
respectively)

Both were awful their first time as NFL coaches
(way worse than Lovie in his first stint)

Did we know their "ceiling" from their first times
coaching?

Did we know what Belichek's "ceiling" was after his
time with the Browns?

Did we know what Shanahan's "celing" was after his
time with the Raiders?

No?

Oh, so the idea that "we don't know a college coach's
ceiling relative to a fired NFL coach" is just some shit
you made up.

Literally you invented that.




----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "
2108006, That's true I made up my opinion, where do you get yours?
Posted by Y2Flound, Thu Jan-10-13 08:28 AM
Like every opinion in history of the world I made it based on facts presented in front of me and my thoughts based on them.

There is a reason fan bases always say "no retreads"

Fanbases are not always right, but they sure say it alot.

I'm talking a pure excitement value, not if it is right or wrong.

See you are debating if the mentality is right or wrong, I'm just explaining the mentality. If you don't think that kind of thinking exists I don't know what to tell you.
2108009, Your point about "ceiling" was a lie. Admit it.
Posted by Orbit_Established, Thu Jan-10-13 08:31 AM

That is a phantom characteristic.



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "
2108022, Its my opinion on why it happens, what is your deal?
Posted by Y2Flound, Thu Jan-10-13 09:07 AM
You get what an opinion is right? You get that your opinions arent facts right? Please get that.
2107856, Like how does he not get the philly job?
Posted by Cynthia_Rose, Wed Jan-09-13 10:47 PM
>
>Pete Carrol was horrible as an NFL coach his first
>two tries
>
>Nick Saban was a complete failure
>
>Literally nothing about what you said makes sense.
>
>Like, at all.
>
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it
>you? http://MatchShannon.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "
2108068, you're being misleading at best, dishonest at worst
Posted by cgonz00cc, Thu Jan-10-13 10:41 AM

>Pete Carrol was horrible as an NFL coach his first
>two tries

he hadnt been a HC in college yet tho, and when NE hired him he was on the same NFL coaching lazy-susan that makes the NFL so boring. the same one that Lovie Smith is on until someone else invites him to win 3 playoff games in 9 years.

>Nick Saban was a complete failure

he was 15-17 in two years and one of those was a winning season. complete failure is just not true.
2108073, Lovie just went 10-6 and this season was considered a "Failure"
Posted by Orbit_Established, Thu Jan-10-13 10:58 AM
>>Nick Saban was a complete failure
>
>he was 15-17 in two years and one of those was a winning
>season. complete failure is just not true.

Not sure what in blue fuck you're talking about.

I was completely fair

And the rest of my point is untouchable


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "
2108087, by the Bears maybe, but not by me
Posted by cgonz00cc, Thu Jan-10-13 11:12 AM
and it doesnt really matter because he'll get another job

you have to murder someone in the front office during your first NFL HC job to not get a second one
2108091, This is not even close to true.
Posted by Orbit_Established, Thu Jan-10-13 11:14 AM
>and it doesnt really matter because he'll get another job
>
>you have to murder someone in the front office during your
>first NFL HC job to not get a second one

Like, not even close

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "
2108118, oh, it is.
Posted by cgonz00cc, Thu Jan-10-13 11:41 AM
may have to a do a rehab job somewhere as a position coach, but once you've coached an NFL team its like lifetime membership to the club

look at Chan Gailey, Romeo Crennel, the aforementioned Pete Carrol

Raheem Morris and Todd Haley will be next
2108235, Raheem Morris Doesn't Support Your Example
Posted by RexLongfellow, Thu Jan-10-13 01:57 PM
>Raheem Morris and Todd Haley will be next
Raheem started all ROOKIES, went 10-6 and missed the playoffs. The next year they went 4-12 and he got fired. He's a defensive line coach now. Not even a coordinator, and sadly not even thought about in terms of getting another HC job anytime soon


Todd Haley is an OC, and gets to argue with a SB winning QB and is still being considered for being a HC, after stinking it up in KC.
2108237, i acknowledged that some guys have do rehab as a position coach
Posted by cgonz00cc, Thu Jan-10-13 02:02 PM
>He's a
>defensive line coach now. Not even a coordinator, and sadly
>not even thought about in terms of getting another HC job
>anytime soon

he'll get another one, i promise. they all do.
2108236, Actually, it isn't.
Posted by Orbit_Established, Thu Jan-10-13 02:00 PM

Your logic is completely wrong.


You're saying this:

"Former NFL coaches always get second jobs"


What you mean to say is this:

"The odds of a given vacancy being filled by
someone with previous NFL head coaching experience is
higher than it being filled by a coach with no NFL
head coaching experience"


The first statement is wrong. I'm not entirely sure
if/how true the second statement is, but it sounds right
and is surely closer to the truth than the first statement.

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "
2107922, That about sums it up
Posted by LA2Philly, Thu Jan-10-13 12:06 AM
2107773, Offensive woes.
Posted by micMajestic, Wed Jan-09-13 10:12 PM
This is a pass happy league, you have to score points to win. I'm sure most if not all teams with coaching vacancies would prefer to throw him top dollar to be their defensive coordinator.
_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is the best hip-hop related internet radio show
http://thecombatjackshow.com/

I put bread on your head like powdered toast man
2107832, This logic makes no sense
Posted by Orbit_Established, Wed Jan-09-13 10:33 PM
>This is a pass happy league, you have to score points to win.
> I'm sure most if not all teams with coaching vacancies would
>prefer to throw him top dollar to be their defensive
>coordinator.

You also need good defenses to shut down this new
wave of offenses

Literally all 4 playoff games so far have been defined
by stoudt, physical defenses

You can't stop people, you lose


2107916, lol did you watch the games? 2-4 the 4 losing teams played with handicaps
Posted by micMajestic, Wed Jan-09-13 11:57 PM
>>This is a pass happy league, you have to score points to
>win.
>> I'm sure most if not all teams with coaching vacancies
>would
>>prefer to throw him top dollar to be their defensive
>>coordinator.
>
>You also need good defenses to shut down this new
>wave of offenses
>
>Literally all 4 playoff games so far have been defined
>by stoudt, physical defenses
>
>You can't stop people, you lose
>
>

at the QB position (Webb/a hobbled RGIII). The 3rd losing team was without their prized offensive coordinator (Colts). And if Dalton doesn't miss a wide open Green in the end zone...
You are just talking out your ass as per usual. But why do you have an alias with a female name though? That's weird and kinda creepy.....
_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is the best hip-hop related internet radio show
http://thecombatjackshow.com/

I put bread on your head like powdered toast man
2108008, The stats back me up, sparky.
Posted by Orbit_Established, Thu Jan-10-13 08:30 AM

3/5 top offenses made the playoffs

The 2 that didn't (Saints and Lions) both had losing
records


3/5 top defenses made the playoffs

Neither of the 2 that didn't (Steelers and Bears)
had losing records (8-8 and 10-6 respectively)


So having a top defense put you in a better position
to win than having a top offense.


Its not debatable.


Teams moving in the direction of offense are missing
the point. You have to be able to stop people.



----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "
2107800, He'd be at the top or near the top of my list.
Posted by smutsboy, Wed Jan-09-13 10:26 PM
He's your perfect executive-style head coach.

Doesn't take shit. Hire qualified coordinators. You're good to go.
2108010, In Philly, he's has QBs that everyone agrees are shitty.
Posted by Orbit_Established, Thu Jan-10-13 08:32 AM

Unlike in Chicago, where magically its his fault
that Jay Cutler is Jay Cutler (i.e. will never, ever
be elite)


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "
2107836, starts with a b & ends with a k, five letters, your turn
Posted by Bombastic, Wed Jan-09-13 10:35 PM
2107857, aint his family white, like isn't he accepted?
Posted by Cynthia_Rose, Wed Jan-09-13 10:48 PM
>
2107860, ask Charlie Strong how that 'white by association' things workin for him
Posted by Bombastic, Wed Jan-09-13 10:50 PM
2108095, Obama says no.
Posted by smutsboy, Thu Jan-10-13 11:18 AM
I asked him.
2107960, I'd like to buy a vowel! Is there an... A?
Posted by Frank Longo, Thu Jan-10-13 01:45 AM
2107955, would love to have
Posted by 98.6, Thu Jan-10-13 01:25 AM
he&norv in philly.. that's just me tho
2107993, Norv? You don't mean as head coach right?
Posted by Y2Flound, Thu Jan-10-13 07:54 AM
Norv with a career losing record?
2108005, norv as oc
Posted by 98.6, Thu Jan-10-13 08:26 AM
lovie hc..
a return to the d-centric teams of the past with a pseudo-competent oc to boot
2108060, Y... He is a lesser version of Andy
Posted by imo, Thu Jan-10-13 10:29 AM
1 Super bowl appearance and not as many Conference championship appearances.

AND HIS TEAM WAS EVISCERATED IN THAT SUPERBOWL.


Lovie would only be on my list for DC.

2108233, offensively Andy and Norv have little in common.
Posted by smutsboy, Thu Jan-10-13 01:47 PM
2108094, that would be fine by me, would never happen tho
Posted by Bombastic, Thu Jan-10-13 11:17 AM
at this point I'm realizing this coaching search is about who I *don't* want rather than loving who we get.

So at this point as long as they don't hire Bruce Arians, Jay Gruden or Mike Nolan then I'll learn to live with it.