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|Forum name||Okay Sports|
|Topic subject||D. Lee:all star, ZBo:all star, Crawford:balling..STILL HATE ZEKE THE GM?|
2102724, D. Lee:all star, ZBo:all star, Crawford:balling..STILL HATE ZEKE THE GM?|
Posted by subjctmattr, Thu Jan-03-13 06:21 PM
Zeke had all three with the Knicks at the same damn time.
Not to mention Ariza, and Nate Robinson.
The GMs job is to assemble talent. The talent was there.
now he was a horrible coach, but he always said he didn't want to coach.
As for Anucha...damn he took it to trial and lost.
but as a GM Zeke had a shit load of talent on the team, which is his job.
Unlike Scott Layden before him who had a bunch of high priced bums on the roster.
TALK ABOUT IT.
2102725, *points up at the sky to the Ba Signal*|
Posted by Frank Longo, Thu Jan-03-13 06:25 PM
2102726, d lee...agreed|
Posted by Cenario, Thu Jan-03-13 06:30 PM
Zbo somewhat agreed but that wasn't the roster for zbo to succeed. But zach balled while he was here
Crawford no. He signed crawford to be the starting sg and one of his top players, and crawford is not that guy. He's not that guy for the clips.
You got anucha wrong too...dolan took it to trial zeke wanted to settle
2102729, the 1 player zeke was totally wrong about is who he needed most|
Posted by Basaglia, Thu Jan-03-13 06:34 PM
he was not the dude zeke thought he was. not at that time...mentally. hell, steph ain't come CLOSE...not CLOSE to what he coulda been.
zeke thought he could give that dude pieces, teach him how to ACT like a champ and save him. worst mistake zeke has ever made as an exec, by far.
and the knicks had a RACK of pieces...zach, lee, craw, nate, Q, wilson chandler, eddy curry.
what they lacked was a leader. with chris paul, that team does SOMETHING. i ain't saying they win a title in 2007, but DAMN!!!
but, they all just tolerated each other and got tired of the circus, because steph wanted to bang out cheerleaders and let his bamma ass cousins run MSG. and when zeke benched his ass and let him know what was up...he turned on zeke and acted like a ho and the whole thing imploded.
2102737, As much as I repped Steph at the time I cannot disagree with one word|
Posted by subjctmattr, Thu Jan-03-13 06:54 PM
2102739, I still say LB ruined Steph, hiring him was Zeke's biggest mistake...|
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu Jan-03-13 07:03 PM
when Steph first got to NY he was balling and throwing up 20&10's like it wasn't shit and they were winning, then Allan Houston got hurt the wheels kinda fell off a bit, I think Zeke gave up on Lenny Wilkens too soon, then he wanted to make splash with a "name" coach ignoring the fact that LB and Steph didnt get along at all during the Olympics. Those two where an oil and water mixture from the jump.
2102746, LB was hard on every PG & every star he ever coached anywhere|
Posted by Bombastic, Thu Jan-03-13 07:19 PM
Steph just wasn't up for the task unlike another guard we know who did have success under LB (that you often claimed on these boards was his equal).
That being said, the Beady-Eyed-Snake saw there was nothing he could do with that dude & treated that job like a paycheck.
He's probably still smirking while spending that New York money like Bobby Bonilla.
2102884, different teams, different roles|
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Jan-04-13 12:01 AM
2102951, different players, different results, different Hall of Fames|
Posted by Bombastic, Fri Jan-04-13 10:04 AM
2102956, Outside of that ONE magical season in a wack ass Eastern conference...|
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Jan-04-13 10:20 AM
That you Iverstans love to stick you little bird chests out about and hang your hat on, your boy Bubbachuck didn't really do a whole lot with LB either. If Vince Carter isn't flying in from Chapel Hill the morning of game seven of the conference semi's your boy's legacy and LB's would be a lot different
2102750, LB wasn't Zeke's call it was Dolan's|
Posted by subjctmattr, Thu Jan-03-13 07:27 PM
>then he wanted to make a splash with a "name" coach
Dolan called that, not Zeke, and when Zeke said to Dolan, "yo we gotta fire this dude he's coming for the GM spot," Dolan said, "alright I'll do it, but you gotta coach, cause I ain't spending no more money on a coach son, you better make this shit work or I'm firing your ass"
2102756, On the real, Steph ruined himself by forcing the trade off of Minn.|
Posted by mrhood75, Thu Jan-03-13 07:38 PM
back in '99. He could have really built something special with KG on the Wolves, but wanted to be "the man." He spent the next three and half seasons being the best player on bad teams, before going back to the play-offs in '03 with the Suns. Then when the Suns sucked the next year, he got traded to Knicks, and he completely lost it.
If he was really 'bout that life, he would have found a way to make it work with Garnett.
2102883, all that shit is wrong, not going to bother rehashing it again|
Posted by ThaTruth, Thu Jan-03-13 11:59 PM
2102967, nope leaving was the beat thing he did for his career|
Posted by FromTheGo, Fri Jan-04-13 10:57 AM
Minnesota was inept. They wouldn't have been able to afford KG and Steph and build any type of team around those two.
Didn't Minnesota lose a draft pick cause of some underhanded deal too?
Steph had a great career and probably doesn't regret much.
2103050, Winning cures everything.|
Posted by mrhood75, Fri Jan-04-13 12:51 PM
And they (both the Wolves and Steph) would have been in a better position to win more if he'd stayed.
>Minnesota was inept. They wouldn't have been able to afford
>KG and Steph and build any type of team around those two.
Most, if not all, of the dumb moves came after Steph left in an attempt to give KG something to work with. Hence the Joe Smith signing debacle (which you allude to below). And it wasn't their fault Malik Sealy got killed by a drunk driver.
>Didn't Minnesota lose a draft pick cause of some underhanded
The Joe Smith debacle was them signing Smith for under market value in attempt to sign more players. Extremely stupid, and against the rules.
>Steph had a great career and probably doesn't regret much.
That's a different post. I don't think Steph had a "great" career, but probably and rightly doesn't have many regrets. He made millions, saw the world, and did what he was best at on the biggest stage possible. Dude lived the dream. That goes for great players how never won a chip, role/bench players and championship teams, or guys who spent three years in the NBA and bounced. I'm just saying he had the chance to be a part of something that could have been great, and passed it up because he wanted to be "the man" on the team.
2103087, It was never about him "wanting to be the man", Minnesota didn't want...|
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Jan-04-13 01:27 PM
to pay him, after being hated on by the rest of the league for KG's contract, Minnesota didnt want to give out another big contract, bottom line
2103105, Well, that's just revisionist history|
Posted by mrhood75, Fri Jan-04-13 01:46 PM
The Wolves made Steph publicly pine for playing in a bigger market when in Minnesota?
The Wolves made him turn down a lucrative contract extension before the lockout ever happened?
They made Marbury say that he couldn't play on the same court as KG knowing he was going to be making more money than him?
They made Marbury have David Falk make trade demands during the '99 season?
2103110, Everything you just typed is...|
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Jan-04-13 01:58 PM
>The Wolves made Steph publicly pine for playing in a bigger
>market when in Minnesota?
>The Wolves made him turn down a lucrative contract extension
>before the lockout ever happened?
>They made Marbury say that he couldn't play on the same court
>as KG knowing he was going to be making more money than him?
>They made Marbury have David Falk make trade demands during
>the '99 season?
2102745, He traded 2 first round picks...and 2 2nd round picks for Eddy Curry|
Posted by Warren Coolidge, Thu Jan-03-13 07:13 PM
2102752, And Eddy was balling at the time.|
Posted by subjctmattr, Thu Jan-03-13 07:29 PM
No rebounds though, but an offensive weapon.
Eddy damn near made the all star team. Let's not act like it wasn't worth the reach.
Posted by ConcreteCharlie, Thu Jan-03-13 07:38 PM
2102758, he averaged 16 points per game the previous year...|
Posted by Warren Coolidge, Thu Jan-03-13 07:39 PM
and only 5 rebounds... You got a problem if your 7 foot center who is considered an inside player (as opposed to a premiter player) averages only 5 rebounds a game...
the unprotected 1st round pick the Knicks traded away turned into the 2nd overall pick ..LaMarcus Aldridge....
it was a horrible horrible trade for the knicks and is a case study as to why it's never good to trade away draft picks.
nothing is worse than having a horrible season and not being able to be in the lotto because of a horrible trade....that kills an orginizations overall confidence for the future.
the other thing about the trade was it had the knicks and bulls swap 1st round picks in 2007.... again the pick the knicks traded away turned into Jokim Noah...
only an absolute crazy person could look at LaMarcus and Joakim not being Knicks.....and Eddy Curry's 5 year stint with the Knicks and say any thing positive about that trade..
it was a horrible horrible trade.
2102772, All I said was IT WAS WORTH THE REACH.|
Posted by subjctmattr, Thu Jan-03-13 08:12 PM
Hindsight is hindsight.
You're right Eddy's overall tenure was horrible, I'd rather have what we wound up trading agreed.
But I'm saying we needed a big we had a PG, and SG, and a PF we needed a 4, they thought all the pieces were in place and we would be giving up low draft picks. They were wrong.
All I'm saying is it was worth the reach at the time.
2102775, you judge whether or not it was worth it by the outcome...|
Posted by Warren Coolidge, Thu Jan-03-13 08:18 PM
>Hindsight is hindsight.
to pretend like the outcome didn't happen..or ignore it just shows a lack of desire to deal in the facts of what happened.
>You're right Eddy's overall tenure was horrible, I'd rather
>have what we wound up trading agreed.
>But I'm saying we needed a big we had a PG, and SG, and a PF
>we needed a 4, they thought all the pieces were in place and
>we would be giving up low draft picks. They were wrong.
>All I'm saying is it was worth the reach at the time
If you needed a big...you could have drafted one. Or if you wanted to trade for one...make it a trade that doesn't mortgage your teams future...or trade for a guy who was an established ball..not on potential.
It was not worth the reach at all..
go back over the last decade and show me another team that traded away more than 1st round pick for ANYTHING!!!!
you'd have a tough time finding a comparable trade before or since. The reason for that is that...particularly in Basketball..trading draft picks is super risky. teams just don't do it..and to see why they don't do it...look at the curry deal.
what's really a reach is to look at guys after they have left the Knicks and claim it as some sort of victory for the failed Knick executive that brought them to the Knicks....and also coached them to results far short of what they are doing now.
Isiah Thomas as a major sport executive sits at a table next to Matt Millen.
2102765, balling?? he showed signs for one season...signs.|
Posted by Cenario, Thu Jan-03-13 07:53 PM
2102817, Taking a center that is a defensive liability is ALWAYS stupid|
Posted by Szabo, Thu Jan-03-13 09:48 PM
2102863, nigga cmon|
Posted by ShinobiShaw, Thu Jan-03-13 10:59 PM
<------ Boho Model Madness Presents: Andy Allo
"Arm Leg Leg Arm How you doin?" (c)T510
2102869, he traded for a non rebounding center|
Posted by themaddfapper, Thu Jan-03-13 11:18 PM
who had heart issues
and refused to take a dna test to determine if he had Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy (HCM), which you know, KILLS ATHLETES.
the bulls, provided that he did have HCM, were willing to offer him 400K a year for the next 50 yrs.
so Zeke signed him to a 6 yr 60m deal.
so he's got heart issues, won't take the test to rule it out, you know, for his sake let alone his family's, cause that's responsible, so let's make him the cornerstone of our franchise at 10m a year.
not like this, fam.
2102796, it's a salary capped league|
Posted by southphillyman, Thu Jan-03-13 08:40 PM
it's mad simplistic to just look at names on a roster and say 'oh they had talent tho'
what did he give up for them? what did he sign them for?
and ultimately what was the end result
i think someone posted it here but there was an article that broke down how bad his GM record was when you factor in the bad contracts and traded picks (just google isiah thomas bad gm lol...but he's one article http://www.nysportsdigest.com/2010/11/the-ten-worst-moves-isiah-thomas-ever-made/)
on top of all that you naming a bunch of C-tier ass allstars/headcases anyway
2102849, lemme tell you what the starting 5 Zeke inherited was|
Posted by subjctmattr, Thu Jan-03-13 10:40 PM
pg- Howard Eisley
sg- Shandon Anderson
sf- Keth van Horn
pf- Kurt Thomas
And the all had long ass contracts.
At least he had long ass contracts with talent.
With a better coach, they win games.
2102901, this resembles the supporting cast Elmo carried on his back in '03|
Posted by FILF, Fri Jan-04-13 01:31 AM
>pg- Howard Eisley
>sg- Shandon Anderson
>sf- Keth van Horn
>pf- Kurt Thomas
>And the all had long ass contracts.
>At least he had long ass contracts with talent.
>With a better coach, they win games.
Pop was the coach---->CHIP
2102945, Who was the Knicks' Elmo, though? n/m|
Posted by Jayson Willyams, Fri Jan-04-13 09:58 AM
2102952, Eddy Curry n/m|
Posted by Bombastic, Fri Jan-04-13 10:06 AM
Posted by Cenario, Fri Jan-04-13 10:43 AM
2102973, it was supposed to be steph...that was my whole issue with him|
Posted by Basaglia, Fri Jan-04-13 11:15 AM
2102987, lol@this troll|
Posted by ThaTruth, Fri Jan-04-13 11:38 AM
2102896, zeke as a talent evaluator=great, roster builder=shakey, coach=horrible|
Posted by spawn2k, Fri Jan-04-13 01:10 AM
Anyone who looked at his drafts and player acquisitions can't even question his eye for talent. His decision making in trades to acquire some of that talent was bad and his over estimating certain players work ethic and leadership was his problem. Crawford was and is dumb, eddy was lazy and steph wasn't tough enough to take it to the next level. As a head scout and talent evaluator would be his best role. The hatchet job that was done on him by the ny media will be legendary in terms of the bullshit and cism. Compare the treatment that layden who was 5x as bad got versus zeke, if you dont see the cism then i don't know what to tell you. And im not one who even screams cism like that.
2102959, I'd like to go on record as Team Lee over Team Boozer|
Posted by DVS, Fri Jan-04-13 10:27 AM
during that free agent summer, I didn't know why everyone was writing off David Lee when all he had EVER done was succeed at his position.
Tell me the Bulls aren't a completely different team with him at the 4.
2103106, both horrible defenders.|
Posted by LeroyBumpkin, Fri Jan-04-13 01:48 PM
So no, Bulls are pretty much the same team.