What's really good?
Let's talk about it
____________________

Behold my works,ye mighty

Same old Jay.

But Chuck told everyone that and no one listened.Maybe if they hadn't punted all those draft picks for a dude who can't eat Klondike bars without going blind they'd be better
____________________

Behold my works,ye mighty

Nine years of offensive ineptitude got Lovie fired.

He failed to hire the right coaches, failed to find the right mix of talent on the o-line, and failed to put a respectable group on the field.

He had nine years to figure it out. He didn't.

The reason Lovie was fired is based on a myth
that an offense can be great with Jay Cutler
at QB and that Lovie wasn't doing the right things
to make it work

That is a myth

Cutler isn't the guy

You'll find out the hard way.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Lovie's a great defensive coach who was saddled with shit offensive talent and and still almost made the playoffs.

Belichick coulda won with Cutler, if only because Belichick also makes sure/gets (WHITE!) personnel power so he would have gotten a real OL at some point because Cutler desperately needs that to be good.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

Shawn...u smarter than this, homie....

real talk...Lovie got Lovie fired for not going hard at Angelo on some "the fuck bullshit you drafting"

"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

He's all arm and no heart or brain. People complain about his line,but the Packers line fucking sucks too and Rodgers does ok.
____________________

Behold my works,ye mighty

Stop with the idiocy, seriously.

Talk football or just hate but stop pretending that this comparison makes sense.

Packers give up a ton of sacks because they go empty backfield ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

They are able/willing to sacrifice protection in order to maximize their targets, which is not a bad idea in their case because their line is pretty decent and they have a plethora of talented receivers running a proven high intensity attack that they have been in for 5 years+

The Bears have to KEEP blockers in because their linemen are completely inept. This results in less targets and makes it more difficult for Cutler to find open receivers. Even with tight ends and backs staying in, the Bears give up pressures and sacks at a record pace.

I am not just coming up with this out of whole cloth. People have crunched the numbers and done in-depth analysis on this subject for the last three years and pronounced the Bears line to consistently be one of the 2 or 3 worst in the league every season.

And that is not even getting into the rotating coordinators, rotating linemen and the HUGE difference between throwing to Finley, JEnnings, Nelson, Cobb, Driver, Jones et al in an offense you have been playing in your whole life VS throwing to Hester, Knox, Bennett, Jeffrey and the worst tight end in football in an offense that changes yearly. They just got Marshall and that paid major dividends.


You have an obsession with Cutler. That's fine. You are a Packers fan, he is an easy target, take your shots.

But this fale equivalency of the Packers o-line and the Bears is a dog that won't hunt. Stop with the nonsense.

You take that talent away,he better be worth it.


He's not
____________________

Behold my works,ye mighty

>You take that talent away,he better be worth it.
>
>
>He's not


Chill with the Trolling homie...Your team is in the playoffs...Worry about them...

Now THIS is a logical and debateable argument.

It is obviously difficult to prove or disprove events that never came to pass but as a Bears fan I am happy with the move.

I see Cutler as a hard-nosed QB with a huge arm who can throw you in and out of games but can also make throws that nobody else in the league can.

You see him as a physically talented player who simply is not smart or fundamentally sound enough to be worth the kings ransom for which he was traded.


So, we will have to see who is right.

But what I can say is that our previous GM Jerry Angelo was a horrible talent evaluator and draft manager, so that is one big hole in your theory. We probably would have drafted chum and been 5-11 the last few years.

.

>You have an obsession with Cutler. That's fine. You are a
>Packers fan, he is an easy target, take your shots.
>
>But this fale equivalency of the Packers o-line and the Bears
>is a dog that won't hunt. Stop with the nonsense.


This is all that needs to be said^^^^^^^^^^

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2013/01/phil_emery_provides_tremendous.html

(swippity)

By Sean Jensen on January 1, 2013 8:52 PM

"Phil Emery provides tremendous insight into his o-line decisions"

Bears general manager Phil Emery spoke sparingly to reporters during the season, but he provided a lot of clarity on a number of issues Tuesday during his press conference.

But one area he certainly wanted to expound upon was the offensive line.

And expound he did... to the tune of 2,234 words.

Given the position and Emery's willingness to really delve into the topic, here's a full transcript of his comments on the beleaguered unit.

"Offensive line, obviously a lot of press. A lot of different thoughts behind that. As a general manager, I have to look at these things, I've got to remove myself from it a little bit. I've got to take the emotion out of it. I'm a fan too. I want to win, just like everybody in this building and everybody on our team. I have to push myself back and try to look at it with an unbiased eye. I don't know if that's always possible. The toughest evaluation that you have, as a general manager and as a scout, is of your own team, because there are emotions involve. I thought of all the available tools. How can we look at this in an objective way?

"Yes we're going to pay attention to the coach's grades. Yes we're going to pay attention to our internal scouting grades. But let's look at this another way. I went to STATS Inc., went through all the numbers. Went to Pro Football Focus, did all the numbers. I'm familiar with STATS Inc. We're one of their contracted teams. Spent quite a bit of time with their people, not only their programmers but went to their offices, watched how they grade tape, how they triple check all their facts. So I trust all their data, that's it's unbiased, that it doesn't have my hands in it, that it doesn't have our coach's or scout's hands in it, or anybody else in the league. They are simply reporting fact. Some ways to look at it is in a very Money Ball way, crunching the numbers.

So where did the Chicago Bears at the end of this process, looking at them, I wanted to know how did we rank, in terms of the most visible thing with offensive linemen is pass protection. Run blocking, ideally you're all coming off, there are all kinds of combinations, it's very difficult for a non-scout to really grade a player for run blocking. But there are statistical ways in terms of hurries, hits and sacks on the quarterback, once you have a criteria for what those are, marking a score. So I took their data. We finished 26th, which tells me we've got to get better. We've got to get better. I look at that from the perspective: how does that impact winning? Our disruption pressures were in the 33-percent range in terms of for every pass play. It's a quotient of total number of disruptions into every pass that you've thrown. What impact does that actually have on winning? Does that just mean that we've got to get better as an offensive line or does that have a huge impact on winning? The six teams below, three of them were in the playoffs, three of them weren't. The team at 25th, that was within .10 difference, was the San Francisco 49ers, one of the best teams in the league. So I can't absolutely say it's on the offensive line that's going to determine out success or not.

"So I looked at different areas. I looked at percentage of dropped passes. How does that look from a league perspective? We were 22nd percentage-wise. We've got to get better. The O-line has got to get better. We've got to push that level up. We can't be in the back end of the 20s or in the 20s if we're going be a championship contending team on a consistent basis. In that, below us was six playoff teams, so I don't know from a fan perspective - and again, I'm a fan - that sacks and drops, are they a factor? Yes, but I would say that it doesn't look like they are the ultimate determining factor. I still think it comes down to: how many playmakers do you have opposed to the team that you're playing? And are they making plays that are at game-changing instances at the moment of truth moving forward.

"To follow up on your question, because I know a lot has been talked about it so I'm just going to jump ahead for you. A lot has been talked about, in terms of our offensive line: did we provide enough talent and depth and competition for it. I'm going to take you all the way back to the process. We came in, we evaluated our team. We had team meetings and as I spoke when I got here: the number one need was to build our around our quarterback. Build weapons for our quarterback. We also needed a complementary pass rusher. Did we need to get better on the offensive line? Yes we did.

"Now, it's a matter of taking the UFA market and the draft into determining if those resources are there so that you can actually accomplish all your goals. In terms of building weapons, the first thing was met with Brandon Marshall. I think Brandon has had a very dynamic season. He's a Pro Bowler and he deserves it.

"Now, UFA market, offensive tackles: How do I look at that objectively? Number one, did we go after some free agent offensive tackles? Absolutely. The three best didn't play ball this year. They all retired. Two of them were medical and one decided not to play. Was I disappointed in that? Yes I was disappointed but I was disappointed in who we ended up with, with Jonathan Scott, who started six games for us, who gave zero sacks for the year. I felt very good that, when I looked at the UFA market and I took all the guys that played, had starts, played at least 33 percent of the reps, a third of the reps, out of the UFA market that did not sign back with their original team. It's very difficult for team to give up on an offensive lineman if they've got one. And really in this past market, franchise left tackles that were in the market didn't exist. So I looked at the ones that were out there. Again, we had three that go out of football. Where did Jonathan Scott rate? He was the second best. Zero sacks. Sean Locklear from the Giants, who ended the season on IR, ended up the best in that respect for those stats. He was one; Jonathan was two. So do I feel like Jon added to our team? Yes I do. That was the UFA market.

"Now I've got to go into the draft. We didn't meet our needs. The UFA part of this solution, the market was small in terms of who was available. Going into the draft, we had decisions to make. We decided to go with Shea to meet our needs at defensive end. I feel good about Shea. In the second round, there were a number of offensive linemen in that round but we still had not our need for a second receiver that can complement the first, that's a big, dynamic target. That was our interest in Alshon Jeffery. Now I've got to weigh that, as a general manager, against what's left in the second round with offensive linemen. Kelechi Osemele, Mike Adams, some of the third round guys that were taken. So when we were picking , Kalil, who went to Minnesota, was the third pick in the draft. He wasn't in our mix. We're not going to go from 19 to three without giving up the rest of the team. The only other person that was drafted in front of us at right tackle was Schwartz, that went to Cleveland with the 37th pick. Those guys were off the board when we came to decision time to make a trade to move up a little from our spot to get Alshon. That meant we were going to leave a few guys on the board.

"My though process was, before we went into the draft, to analyze with our coaches and with our staff, we've got two tackles and we had determined that was our greatest need. We felt good about our guard, our interior play. We felt good about Roberto Garza going into the season and looking at the STATS Inc. stuff, the guy had a solid season. We felt good about Lance Louis. He had a solid season before he got hurt. We felt that for the left guard, we had a number of candidates. We had a bunch of guys that had a number of starts. We certainly had enough in reserve, between starters and backups, for the interior play. So for us, it was a tackle question. What's the age of the two guys that we have? 24. Is there a young tackle in this draft that, at the end of this fall, is going to clearly be better than the two young 24-year-old tackles that we have? That's the question I had to ask myself.

"The end results - and again, taking bias out of it, just going to the STATS Inc. information in terms of total disruptions - there were no left tackles taken during that time that came out better than J'Marcus Webb, in terms of total disruptions. There was only one right tackle that came out better than Gabe, and that was tackle from Baltimore. Gabe gave up 31.5 disruptions; he gave up 30. Gabe gave up 6.5; he gave up 7.5. His percentage was lower because they threw the ball more. His percentage came out better. His ranking was higher. But in reality, we're looking at the same guy. So, in my eyes, the decision was: do we go for the playmaker or do we go for the offensive lineman knowing we've already got two 24-year-olds - those two guys are 23 - that are part of our mix. I made the decision to go with the playmaker. I don't regret that decision. I know it's going to be criticized. I feel good about it. I feel good about it moving forward because we have, what, we have another draft. We have another UFA market."

The GM used advanced statistics to justify why his o-line wasn't up to par? And he also used it to say he wasn't far off from the playoff teams
And that somehow is LOVIE's fault?

Amazing

"So I looked at different areas. I looked at percentage of dropped passes. How does that look from a league perspective? We were 22nd percentage-wise. We've got to get better. The O-line has got to get better. We've got to push that level up. We can't be in the back end of the 20s or in the 20s if we're going be a championship contending team on a consistent basis. In that, below us was six playoff teams, so I don't know from a fan perspective - and again, I'm a fan - that sacks and drops, are they a factor? Yes, but I would say that it doesn't look like they are the ultimate determining factor. I still think it comes down to: how many playmakers do you have opposed to the team that you're playing? And are they making plays that are at game-changing instances at the moment of truth moving forward...."




In regard to Lovie's firing...couple that with a few Rex Grossman starts and there you have it.... That SB against the Colts was ABSOLUTELY winnable... The deciding factor??? Rex Grossman's turnovers... The eliminator with Carolina in '05???? Rex Grossman. The '05 SB was a winnable one as well. I think that Bear team would have beaten the Patriots in that one...

Lovie is a good coach but you can't start and stall like the Bears have for this long and not expect to get canned. He had longer than Norv to turn things around on the offensive side of the ball... You cannot miss 5 of 6 and expect to keep your job..

...and while Lovie is not fully to blame...the Bears had about the same collapse down the stretch as when Jerry Angelo was GM... Ownership has had enough...

And his coach still has a job

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Stafford gets only about .7% of the blame he should get. Is Linehan to blame for some of it?? Probably. Is he still employed? Of course.

-Bears fans, a few weeks ago

>-Bears fans, a few weeks ago


And why wouldn't that change?

He still don't have a line....

Given the success dude had has as a tackling dummy with the Bears, I can honestly say that if you gave the man more time in the pocket and more than 1 dependable dude to throw the ball to, you would see a top 5 or at the very least top 7 QB...I say this because of what we saw Cutler do in Denver...he was a touchdown machine...

I don't think most folks understand just how horrible our offensive line was...We talk about it so much that it becomes just another punch-line...Or the fact that the Bears receivers beyond Marshall have been inconsistent at best....Or the fact that we have one of the worst catching tight ends in the league...

The bottom line is, teams with horrible O Lines need dynamic receivers and play calling (see Green Bay)....

The Bears had neither this season beyond Cutler to Marshall...

I get Green Bay fans shitting on Cutler...That's what they were born to do....

But you have to actually watch the game to see that the Bears are running an antique offense with a 2013 QB...

The *skins have been having o-line issues for YEARS. YEARS!! Then the organization gets RGIII and funny, the line didn't look as bad this year as they did in the past.

A QB can assist in making the line look bad as well as making them look not so bad.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Make Money: http://jamesjenkins.acnrep.com
Save Money: http://jamesjenkins.acndirect.com

a guy who will most likely interview for a head coaching gig with at least 4 teams this offseason.

a smart, adatapble guy that has a clue.

the bears never had someone like that running their offense. big difference.


>The *skins have been having o-line issues for YEARS. YEARS!!
>Then the organization gets RGIII and funny, the line didn't
>look as bad this year as they did in the past.
>
>A QB can assist in making the line look bad as well as making
>them look not so bad.

It's pretty much understood that once daddy retires the team is going to be handed to Kyle.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Make Money: http://jamesjenkins.acnrep.com
Save Money: http://jamesjenkins.acndirect.com

Arguably (in Denver)...

-Better line

-at the time more *quality* weapons (Marshall, Royal, Graham, Stokely Scheffler) I won't comparing the halfbacks because Forte is better but as far as receiving threats...Hillis has to be counted as quality on that Broncos squad...

Marshall and Royal alone were better as Denver weapons than any iteration of offense in Chicago before Marshall came...

"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

Top 5 QB? Cutler? Really
He could have the mid-90's Dallas Cowboys line and still be mediocre.

with an offensive line Forte would have holes to hit
with an offensive line receivers could run their routes.


the only real setback was Jeffery getting injured.

required to be top 5.

His ceiling is around top 10, plus or minus.

Same dude outside one being able to eat a snickers
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/
Twitter @therealoldpro

The funny thing is, if Jay Cutler is indeed terrible, the other people who have played for the Bears over the last few years must just be absolute garbage, since there is so much to work with here. Cutler is not the only guy who has gotten burn. In fact, since he has been injured many times, we can get a look at what other players have done,



Jason Campbell- has looked like a guy who maybe shouldn't be in the NFL in his action with Bears. I think we would all agree Campbell is AT WORST, a competent, veteran NFL QB. Wonder why his stats and performances have been so lackluster. Maybe he also has diabetes/is stupid/holds ball too long?

Kyle Orton- QB rating was in the mid 70s his entire time in Chicago. Eye test; he looked like a below average game manager. Left for Denver and put up Pro Bowl numbers in a pass heavy offense with him doing the heavy lifting.

Caleb Hanie- Looked like worst QB in league history. Lost every game he started and basically ruined his career by taking snaps behind our line and with our first team offense.

Brian Griese- LOL

Josh McCown- Only achievement was playing better than Caleb Hanie


So basically, if Cutler sucks, then Campbell and Orton should not even be in the league.

Meanwhile Cutler has won a significant percentage of the games he has started and finished over the last two years and even took us to an NFC Championship game.

But...if I get this right. Bears fans should be agitating to get rid of Cutler because he is not as good as Brady, Manning, Brees, et al.

And then, for reasons no one can point to, our new QB (maybe Brandon Weeden or Matt Flynn or Kevin Kolb or Fitzpatrick) will lead us to the promised land, amirite?


FOH

looking at that list I'd think you were trying to prove the exact opposite point lol

_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/
Twitter @therealoldpro

Allow me to ask two questions:

Is Jason Campbell a better than average QB in today's league? If so, his below average performances and inability to win in Chicago perhaps speak to the lack of supporting cast...

And likewise, why did Orton's production rise so dramtically upon leaving Chicago for Denver, while Cutlers dipped equally dramatically while doing the reverse?



No one has to think Jay Cutler is a top 5 QB in order to admit that playing winning football at the QB position in Chicago has probably been one of the hardest jobs in football over the last couple years.

If that makes him Jeff George, I will take it. Anyone claiming Chicago should jettison Cutler this offseason is a reactionary idiot or a Packers fan. Or both.

>Allow me to ask two questions:
>
>Is Jason Campbell a better than average QB in today's league?
>If so, his below average performances and inability to win in
>Chicago perhaps speak to the lack of supporting cast...

Average at best... but he'd have looked better than he did had he been getting first team snaps all year. He's the best QB on that list and that's what's so sad about it.

>And likewise, why did Orton's production rise so dramtically
>upon leaving Chicago for Denver, while Cutlers dipped equally
>dramatically while doing the reverse?

You sure you really want to bring up the guy who couldn't keep his job away from Tebow? The fact they made they playoffs after the switch should dead Orton as any sort of example.

>No one has to think Jay Cutler is a top 5 QB in order to admit
>that playing winning football at the QB position in Chicago
>has probably been one of the hardest jobs in football over the
>last couple years.

This is true. I hear about the wind and all that but I've spent enough time @ Candlestick Park to tell you that place isn't exactly the Superdome... and they've done pretty well with QBs throughout their history. Or do you think it's more the defensive history there or something else? Really curious why you think this is.

>If that makes him Jeff George, I will take it. Anyone claiming
>Chicago should jettison Cutler this offseason is a reactionary
>idiot or a Packers fan. Or both.

I'm not even saying they should ship Cutler out... I'd want to see the other options first and what they would cost. But I've said for the longest this cat wasn't a guy I'd trust if I had serious aspirations for my team's season.
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/
Twitter @therealoldpro

Okay, well I feel like Campbell is above average and his performances in Chicago are a testament to how little there is to work with.

Either way, Cutler has done more with less and played headier than 90% of the QB's in the NFL would have been able to do IMO. Everyone talking about he holds the ball too long doesn't watch how many plays he makes with his feet. They also ignore the fact that we have no deep offense so teams are constantly jumping hot routes, knowing he is not going to get protection.

Throwing the ball everytime he got pressure is how we got a 26 interception season his first year here.

Last year he got injured throwing a hot route and Knox falls down, getting it picked off.

Everything on offense is out of sync and while Cutler is a part of that, without him we would be a 5-11 team.

Can he lead a team to a Superbowl and ever become an consistently excellent performer in the league? I don't know. I hope so and I think there are reasons to be hopeful. There are also reasons to be pessimistic.

Is the a very good QB and a player the Bears need to build around if they want to win any time soon? Unequivocally, yes. There is no better option, his value after a couple years here is too low to make a trade worthwhile and oh, he is also the best QB in Bears history by 1000 miles.

So you won't catch me out here hoping we can get rid of Cutler and join the likes of the Buffalo Bills and Cleveland Browns. Bears play in the league's toughest division. One wrong step backwards and we will be in the basement for a looooong time.

Either we win with Cutler or we scrap everything and start a rebuild from the bottom up. Given the ages of our key players, our draft position and divisional competitiveness, there is only one answer.

is 'heady'

now I'm sure you've seen far more of him over the last couple years then I have... but when I have seen him play, he seems to have only slightly improved from the poor decision maker I saw throw 5 ints at The 'Stick a couple years back. Like Romo and Stafford he's just a guy that I feel comes up short when it comes to the thinking part of the game. Again I'm sure you have many more snaps to judge him on but I just haven't seen anything from him to make me think 'heady'
_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/
Twitter @therealoldpro

>The funny thing is, if Jay Cutler is indeed terrible, the
>other people who have played for the Bears over the last few
>years must just be absolute garbage

Bears have lots of offensive problems, but Cutler isn't elite either way. he doesn't have great anticipation or recognition of coverages. many times he sacks himself or forces passes because of his slow ability to read defenses. his footwork and mechanics also get sloppy.

Cutler is talented, and on a strong offensive team he'll produce. he's just not an elite, top five quarterback.

I'll just preface this by saying that the Giants front line can make any offensive line or QB look bad at times. But some of the stuff you see out of Cutler here is typical Cutler not recognizing what is going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkPS8Az5IV8

>But some
>of the stuff you see out of Cutler here is typical Cutler not
>recognizing what is going on.

Dude just isn't blessed with football smarts


_________________________________
Reunion Radio Podcasts
http://reunionradio.blogspot.com/
Twitter @therealoldpro

Very interesting read because it's a window into how he approached this year's OL, and how a GM thinks.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/bears/2013/01/phil_emery_provides_tremendous.html

Also, apparently 3 playoff teams had worse OLs than CHI.

Playmaker >>>>>> OL Scraps...

Phil is absolutely correct. When all else is volatile...bet on the surefire return.

...and Marshall balled out... Jeffrey will only get better and compliment Marshall. Emery also said that Forte was being underutilized... Bush and Bell are capable. I am quite sure better help upfront will manifest sooner than later. He is working to undo a lot of Angelo's bullshit...but that takes time and we've already got a Pro-Bowler to show for it...

My question now is whether Tice will be able to bring some of that offense that had Minny putting up the points all those years back?


"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."

there wasn't a lot of OL help available last off-season.

...Emery *clearly* stating that the best six OL options were going to be pursued hotly by the Bears..three of which were immediately rendered unavailable either by retirement or medically infeasible...

...so what do you have left?

*Comparable* scraps to which he clearly stated that he'd rather err on the side of *YOUTH* and be patient..

...but meanwhile...this *PLAYMAKER* is available to us...and happens to already have chemistry with our founding/cornerstone offensive piece!!!!

What are cats not understanding?

Isn't Emery cut from the Falcons/Patriots executive tree? I always see these teams getting value and *quality* pieces... Positive steps aren't always large and sweeping...


"Inspectah Deck, he's like...he's like that dude thatta sit back and watch you play yourself and all that right? And see you sit there and know you lyin; and he'll take you to court after that, cuz he the Inspectah."