In what capacity has his performance been superior to RG3's or Russell Wilson's?
_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is the best hip-hop related internet radio show
http://thecombatjackshow.com/

I put bread on your head like powdered toast man

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

Rex Grossman beat the SB champs twice last year dog.

Luck's historic rookie season being third-best in 2012 says more about RG3 and Wilson than him tho

>Luck's historic rookie season being third-best in 2012 says
>more about RG3 and Wilson than him tho


_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is the best hip-hop related internet radio show
http://thecombatjackshow.com/

I put bread on your head like powdered toast man

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

If you'd vote for Luck instead explain why.
_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is the best hip-hop related internet radio show
http://thecombatjackshow.com/

I put bread on your head like powdered toast man

RG3 had another rookie QB win a big game + a rookie RB who is 3rd in rushing but he has the best stats.

Wilson has led his team to 10 wins a playoff spot.

Luck has done the same w/ 7 comeback victories on a team that won 2 games last year.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

maybe eventually someone will believe you.

just sayin.. it ain't all RG3...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

Cousins looks like a good QB too, though.

He's as important to that teams success as RG3. Plus he still has +90 total yards and 2 TDs in that Cleveland win. Washington has won a game this season without RG3. They haven't won one with Morris.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

>He's as important to that teams success as RG3.

Just, no.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Make Money: http://jamesjenkins.acnrep.com
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-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

in here talking about ONE GAME?

I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about ONE GAME, not the season, not the season, not the season , but we're talking about ONE GAME?!?

Not the season that RG3's gone out there and died for and played every down like it's his last, but we're talking about ONE GAME, man.

How silly is that?

The fact of the matter is you're judging them on a rookie season so in that context one game matters. It wouldn't if we were talking about Brady or Peyton...

took a team from last place to the playoffs, when virtually no one thought that would happen going into the season. he did this with the head coach being absent for half the season due to leukemia. He was immediately able to step out of Peyton's shadow. it also seems like Luck was given the entire playbook from game one whereas RG3 and Russell were managed the first half of the season

the only knock against him is the INTs

there's a strong case for each qb imo

>took a team from last place to the playoffs, when virtually
>no one thought that would happen going into the season. he did
>this with the head coach being absent for half the season due
>to leukemia. He was immediately able to step out of Peyton's
>shadow. it also seems like Luck was given the entire playbook
>from game one whereas RG3 and Russell were managed the first
>half of the season
>
>the only knock against him is the INTs
>
>there's a strong case for each qb imo

statistics? Provided all 3 teams get into the playoffs wouldn't the first thing you look at after that be statistics? Yes or No?

_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is the best hip-hop related internet radio show
http://thecombatjackshow.com/

I put bread on your head like powdered toast man

it also seems like Luck was given the entire playbook
>from game one whereas RG3 and Russell were managed the first
>half of the season
>
>the only knock against him is the INTs
>
>there's a strong case for each qb imo

Agreed. And honestly I wouldn't even be too upset either one of the other two get it.

only 2 wins vs winning teams.

Russ is ROY. +60% completions, only 10 ints, leads rookies w/25tds, 7th rated passer, wins vs dallas, GB, NE, minny, san fran, and chicago.

>Russ is ROY. +60% completions

RG3 is 66% on almost the same number of ATT

>, only 10 ints,

RG3 has 5. And 1 less fumble lost.

>leads rookies
>w/25tds,

Cool, RG 3 has almost 600 more total yards.

>7th rated passer,

10 points lower than RG3, who's second only to A.Rodgers

>wins vs dallas, GB, NE, minny, san
>fran, and chicago.

Whoopdeedoo.

Russell Wilson is one of the nicest rookies in a while.

There is no case to be made for him over RG3. None.

rg3 gotta get in first.

russ is on fire now as the highest rated qb since week 8.

they both get in it's a toss up.

RG3 has a 1-game difference in record.

All you can do is win the games you play. RG3 and RW are divided by 1 single game

>russ is on fire now as the highest rated qb since week 8.

I didn't realize it was OROY for the period "since week 8".

Oh right, it's not.

RG3's stats are better, ON A WORSE TEAM, and has 1 less win.

End argument.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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fact

>fact

rams & cardinals

>rams & cardinals

Rams are undefeated in the division & BEAT RG3

Cards beat the Patriots in New England

Keep trying to convince me how good the NFC Least is tho. It's been pretty hilarious so far. Make sure you mention how tough those Eagles have been.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/dvoa-ratings/2012/week-16-dvoa-ratings

SF 4
STL 17
ARI 26


NYG 9
DAL 16
PHI 27

So yeah, in terms of divisional opponents, the NFCW is better, but it's not MILES ahead.

OKS comes up with some of the best sports nicknames I've ever heard.

It's been pretty fitting so far tho

>RE: Give Dangeruss that NFC Least division and we do too

NFCW has two elite teams. NFCE has three pretty good teams.

The rest is garbage.

& I like RG3...I really do

I hope yall don't blow it & make the playoffs because I'd rather watch him than Eli or Romo again

But for yall to act like he's head & shoulders above Luck & Russ is asinine

I didn't say head and shoulders or anything else.

it's a simple fact. most folks around here agree.

It's a pretty simple point.

been atrocious. Particularly the secondary.

>RG3 has a 1-game difference in record.
>
>All you can do is win the games you play. RG3 and RW are
>divided by 1 single game
>
>>russ is on fire now as the highest rated qb since week 8.
>
>I didn't realize it was OROY for the period "since week 8".
>
>Oh right, it's not.
>
>RG3's stats are better, ON A WORSE TEAM, and has 1 less win.
>
>End argument.

"Wilson should get respect as a legitimate (and perhaps leading) candidate for offensive rookie of the year. He has eight total touchdowns over the Seahawks' past two games. He trails only Peyton Manning and Tom Brady in Total QBR since Week 2. He trails only Aaron Rodgers and Manning in NFL passer rating over the same period. His 97.6 QBR score Sunday night was the highest in the NFL for Week 16."

foh

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

that said he had the 3rd highest total QBR (ESPN's thing) in the NFL since week 2 and was the 3rd rated passer in the NFL (Stats Inc???) since week 2.

what logic are you trying to use here...his best performances? "since week 2" implies the WHOLE season except the first game.

YOU gtfoh.

i just said foh, not tfoh.

Wisen up young blood, before you make things escalate
And I would hate to set your crooked ass straight

--------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

the point is, Wilson has been the best rook since week 2 based on those important stats...so the ONLY reason RG3 is ahead of him at all is due to week one. since then, RW3 has been the best rook by a good amount...which means he has a GOOD case for being ROY and really should be the leading candidate.

RG3 ROY, or else.

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

>>Russ is ROY. +60% completions
>
>RG3 is 66% on almost the same number of ATT
>
>>, only 10 ints,
>
>RG3 has 5. And 1 less fumble lost.
>
>>leads rookies
>>w/25tds,
>
>Cool, RG 3 has almost 600 more total yards.
>
>>7th rated passer,
>
>10 points lower than RG3, who's second only to A.Rodgers
>
>>wins vs dallas, GB, NE, minny, san
>>fran, and chicago.
>
>Whoopdeedoo.
>
>Russell Wilson is one of the nicest rookies in a while.
>
>There is no case to be made for him over RG3. None.
>
Biased MFer!!! Clearly you don't see it. 42
Against the best def in the NFL!!
I HOPE they meet in the post season against your one demensional ass

we gonna get that revenge we deserve

cause iont like teams that get handed wins when they lose & i dont like tesms thst go 7-9 & go to the playoffs

fuck yall & ur piped in noise

fuck the seagulls

>I HOPE they meet in the post season against your one
>demensional ass
>

if u think the 2012 Washington Reddkins are one dimensionsl u have no vlue what ur talking about, bc the statement is flat out wrong, in fact our success is a direct result of our ability to do many things well

There's no argument for Luck, tho.

Wilson looks as good or better than RG3, in my opinion. And he's one of the main reasons the Seahawks are the best team in the NFL right now. His numbers are close enough to RG3 that, if you also factor in the defenses he's accumulated them against and the dominance of his team, combine to make a great case for OROY.

Any votes Luck gets are guys voting in the hopes that the lightbulb goes on in the future and he looks like the right choice 5 years from now.

The Colts weren't a real 2-14 team - that argument is garbage. Half the teams in this league are 2-14 with Curtis Painter starting as many games as he did. Both the Skins and the Colts got 2 wins in their final 12 games of 2011, yet RG3 walked into a "much better situation" than Luck.

>The Colts weren't a real 2-14 team - that argument is garbage.
> Half the teams in this league are 2-14 with Curtis Painter
>starting as many games as he did. Both the Skins and the
>Colts got 2 wins in their final 12 games of 2011, yet RG3
>walked into a "much better situation" than Luck.

stuck in ur guts

believe what you want but calling ppl idiots for having a different view than you isn't necessary at all

asshole

and you couldn't come up with a sensible reply

so again, tell me how Curtis Painter was responsible for the following:

- 29th ranked rushing defense
- 30th in team sacks
- 32nd in interceptions forced
- 32nd in kickoff coverage
- 32nd in kickoff returns
- 103.9 rating allowed to opposing quarterbacks (Peyton Manning's 2012 quarterback rating: 103.7)
- 71.2 completion percentage allowed (worst in NFL history, breaking the record held by the winless 2008 Detroit Lions)
- 62 points allowed to the New Orleans Saints, the most points scored by a team since the AFL/NFL merger 41 years prior
- 9 starters are either out of the NFL completely, or have not played a single snap as back-ups with their new teams

Painter was polishing the brass on the Titanic (c)

say whatever you want about RG3 or Luck...but sitting here and telling me the 2011 Indianapolis Colts were actually a decent team -- just so you can pump-up a dimwitted, Skip Bayless agenda -- is the work of an idiot

i think owners have enuf control in general to throw a season essentially by themselves, or at least impact the ecentual WL total downward

this is based on my views of how organizations/businesses operate in general

but here...as far as the "Luck inherited a bad team" idea, one of the things that eventually gets brought out is that it was so bad that they had to replace 40% of the team in the offseason

so how would we base Luck turning around a bad team on last year's results when a large portion of the team is totally different, including a huge coaching staff overhaul?

even if i give you that they were a bad team last year (i still dont think they were 2-14 bad, more like 4-12 bad), its irrelevant bc the team is so different now

plus theyve had a cupcake schedule, who'd they beat yesterday?

and that was mostly on Polian, who had gotten away with a string of bad drafts because certain veterans were still in their prime. last season was his "2008 financial crisis", his house of cards coming down with a single neck surgery.

whether Irsay threatened to break Jim Caldwell's legs or not, there was not much the Colts could have done to improve their 2011 performance. and if you truly believe Irsay was forcefully tanking, then inserting Dan Orlovsky (a bad, but better than Painter quarterback) for the last third of the season was a curious move -- since the Vikings and Rams could've still passed the Colts in drafting order.

I agree that Luck is not working with the same team at all, as it's been more like a 70 percent turnover in roster and a new coaching staff.

That, or "I'm a seahawks fan"

>>Russ is ROY. +60% completions
>
>RG3 is 66% on almost the same number of ATT
>
>>, only 10 ints,
>
>RG3 has 5. And 1 less fumble lost.
>
>>leads rookies
>>w/25tds,
>
>Cool, RG 3 has almost 600 more total yards.
You can't just Cuban B this shit like TDs aren't more valuable than yards. I don't even need to make an analogy of this shit. TDs=points. Yards=fantasy football points.


>>7th rated passer,
>
>10 points lower than RG3, who's second only to A.Rodgers
>
>>wins vs dallas, GB, NE, minny, san
>>fran, and chicago.
>
>Whoopdeedoo.
ahhhh so we dismiss that which is a valid argument in favor of that which you're not trying to hear


>Russell Wilson is one of the nicest rookies in a while.
>
>There is no case to be made for him over RG3. None.
>
oh there's plenty, you just aren't giving any credence to them.

look i get it, he's your hopes and dreams, for the first time since who knows when, the franchise has a legitimate shot to win every game they play now. and for the record I'd vote for RGIII as well, but to act like there's NO WAY Russ should get any votes is biased homerism at its finest.

>>Cool, RG 3 has almost 600 more total yards.
>You can't just Cuban B this shit like TDs aren't more valuable
>than yards. I don't even need to make an analogy of this
>shit. TDs=points. Yards=fantasy football points.

First of all, I wasn't making that argument. I was offering a counter-point. I can explain this concept further if you need me to.

Second of all, the idea that yards aren't an indicator of offensive contribution is a joke.

BOTH TDs and yards matter. Otherwise goal line backs would get paid like franchise backs. Strangely they don't, huh?


>
>
>>>7th rated passer,
>>
>>10 points lower than RG3, who's second only to A.Rodgers
>>
>>>wins vs dallas, GB, NE, minny, san
>>>fran, and chicago.
>>
>>Whoopdeedoo.
>ahhhh so we dismiss that which is a valid argument in favor of
>that which you're not trying to hear

You can only win the games on your schedule. If someone wants to show that SEA faced better DEFENSES, go for it.

But listing off single games as an individual achievement is a joke.

>
>
>>Russell Wilson is one of the nicest rookies in a while.
>>
>>There is no case to be made for him over RG3. None.
>>
>oh there's plenty, you just aren't giving any credence to
>them.

No, there aren't. That's why you admit you'd vote RG3 too.

It's a COMPARISON.

Which means SOME THINGS are in Russ' favor.

When you make a CONCLUSION, however, the choice is obvious.

I put the basics of a discussion in all caps. If you need help with any of them, let me know.

>
>look i get it, he's your hopes and dreams, for the first time
>since who knows when, the franchise has a legitimate shot to
>win every game they play now. and for the record I'd vote for
>RGIII as well, but to act like there's NO WAY Russ should get
>any votes is biased homerism at its finest.

I'd argue that thinking Alex Smith isn't a bust is homerism at it's finest, but neither point is relevant.

RG3 is rookie of the year.

If he had the 6th rated D instead of the 18th rated D, this argument wouldn't even exist.

>>>Cool, RG 3 has almost 600 more total yards.
>>You can't just Cuban B this shit like TDs aren't more
>valuable
>>than yards. I don't even need to make an analogy of this
>>shit. TDs=points. Yards=fantasy football points.
>
>First of all, I wasn't making that argument. I was offering a
>counter-point. I can explain this concept further if you need
>me to.
>
>Second of all, the idea that yards aren't an indicator of
>offensive contribution is a joke.
LOL you're hilarious. I said TDs are MORE valuable. You're trying to dispute that point? Go ahead, I'm waiting...


>BOTH TDs and yards matter. Otherwise goal line backs would get
>paid like franchise backs. Strangely they don't, huh?
We're not talking about running backs, we're talking about Quarterbacks. STOP DEFLECTING.

By the way, Cousins had more yards passing last week than RGIII has had in any game this season. COUSINS BETTER!!

>>
>>
>>>>7th rated passer,
>>>
>>>10 points lower than RG3, who's second only to A.Rodgers
>>>
>>>>wins vs dallas, GB, NE, minny, san
>>>>fran, and chicago.
>>>
>>>Whoopdeedoo.
>>ahhhh so we dismiss that which is a valid argument in favor
>of
>>that which you're not trying to hear
>
>You can only win the games on your schedule. If someone wants
>to show that SEA faced better DEFENSES, go for it.
yes, but wins against quality team ARE pluses. to act like teams aren't judged by the quality of their competition is a delusion.

>But listing off single games as an individual achievement is a
>joke.
when it doesn't benefit your argument.

>>
>>
>>>Russell Wilson is one of the nicest rookies in a while.
>>>
>>>There is no case to be made for him over RG3. None.
>>>
>>oh there's plenty, you just aren't giving any credence to
>>them.
>
>No, there aren't. That's why you admit you'd vote RG3 too.
Actually there ARE. Me saying I'd vote for RG3 doesn't mean others couldn't legitimately vote for Russell as well.

>It's a COMPARISON.
>
>Which means SOME THINGS are in Russ' favor.
>
>When you make a CONCLUSION, however, the choice is obvious.
6 weeks ago, yes. things are not as clear cut as they were before. deny it all you want, but they're not. especially when a backup comes into the game at pivotal moments to close out one game then starts and wins another. it muddies the picture that "it's ALL him" when his replacement succeeds as well.

>I put the basics of a discussion in all caps. If you need help
>with any of them, let me know.


>>
>>look i get it, he's your hopes and dreams, for the first
>time
>>since who knows when, the franchise has a legitimate shot to
>>win every game they play now. and for the record I'd vote
>for
>>RGIII as well, but to act like there's NO WAY Russ should
>get
>>any votes is biased homerism at its finest.
>
>I'd argue that thinking Alex Smith isn't a bust is homerism at
>it's finest, but neither point is relevant.
your angered middle is bleeding red right now to bring up someone's name wholly irrelevant to this post, but bleed on.

>RG3 is rookie of the year.
>
>If he had the 6th rated D instead of the 18th rated D, this
>argument wouldn't even exist.
sure it would, because then you'd be shitting on anyone else to bolster your argument.

walk that shit back if you want.

I would.

>walk that shit back if you want.
>
>I would.

The way you tried to hold up passing yardage versus touchdowns like they're an equal stat was the problem.

As much as I think RGIII should win ROY, I'm actually looking forward to how mad you'll be if he doesn't.

http://tinyurl.com/ckkzwr2

-------------------------
“The other dude after me didn’t help my case. It was just like…crazy nigga factory going on.”
Dre makes no apologies for his own eccentricities. “I was young, and searching, trying to find myself,” he says. “Never did.”-- Andre B

I offered a counter-point. RW: more TDs, RG3: more yards

BOTH (!) players have points in their favor, but IN CONCLUSION the winner (as we agree!) is Bob.

Again, I think the basics of simple argument are escaping you. Which is weird, because again, we agree. So clearly there's something else at work here that's making you so mad.


> "Yards=fantasy football points.""

But I want to thank you for this quote. It's easily one of the stupidest things I've read on OKP in quite a while.

>I offered a counter-point. RW: more TDs, RG3: more yards
>
>BOTH (!) players have points in their favor, but IN CONCLUSION
>the winner (as we agree!) is Bob.
actually, that's NOT the conclusion, the conclusion is that OTHERS could make an argument for russ. just because you and i don't agree doesn't mean that NO GOOD ARGUMENTS exist. for you to say otherwise involves your personal feelings.


>Again, I think the basics of simple argument are escaping you.
>Which is weird, because again, we agree. So clearly there's
>something else at work here that's making you so mad.

i'm not the one who's worried about ROY being awarded to someone else.

>
>> "Yards=fantasy football points.""
>
>But I want to thank you for this quote. It's easily one of the
>stupidest things I've read on OKP in quite a while.
what's stupid is that by taking it out of context and isolating a few words from what i said, you're trying to get away from the point that you had nothing for.

basic mathematics. 5 real touchdowns= 30 REAL points. 600 yards = less points unless they result in 10 field goals. for you to try and act like in any world OTHER than fantasy that 600 yards is equivalent to 5 extra TD passes is comical.

>>7th rated passer,
>
>10 points lower than RG3, who's second only to A.Rodgers

ironic

of how passer rating without context, opponents, yards, or anything else, is meaningless.

it's only meaningless when people assign it some other meaning which it's not meant to measure.


>of how passer rating without context, opponents, yards, or
>anything else, is meaningless.

oh so now opponents count, when before it was you can only win against the teams you play?

OK, well accounting for context is what QBR is for, right? Smith's QBR is only 1 point lower than RG3's and ranks just one spot behind him. but I guess that somehow doesn't count either.

he has 7 game winning drives (4 "comebacks"), has done it without a running threat on offense at all, thrown for >4100 yards, and got his team in the playoffs.

he had a historic rookie season. it's not inconceivable. it's not right, either.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

because it relies heavily on your defense, which is completely irrelevant to how good a QB is.

Not that's handy, but a better stat is "would-be" GW drives in last 2 minutes or whatever.

If your shitty ass defense gives up a touchdown in 30 seconds (coughcough WAS/NYG Gm1), that's not the QBs fault.

>Not that's handy, but a better stat is "would-be" GW drives in
>last 2 minutes or whatever.
>
>If your shitty ass defense gives up a touchdown in 30 seconds
>(coughcough WAS/NYG Gm1), that's not the QBs fault.

"JAGUARS 22, COLTS 17: Blaine Gabbert hooked up with Cecil Shorts III on an 80-yard touchdown pass with 45 seconds left. Luck, who led the Colts (1-2) on a last-minute game-winning drive last week, nearly did it again Sunday — twice."

Dude, at least MILDLY familiarize yourself with the other contestants in the race before acting like your opinion is the sole possible perspective. It's embarrassing to the rest of us skins fans. RG3 is probably the right OROY recipient and Luck absolutely does not deserve it this year, but at least have an informed opinion instead of watching your own player and reading the other candidates' stat lines.

try again.

And lol @ whoever you are trying to speak for Skins OKPs.

a not-shitty one (not a good one), and one that would be quite convincing to a lot of folks. *shrug*

anyway, here's Luck doing it under 2 minutes against GB:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201210070clt.htm

while this doesn't fit your arbitrary cut off, it's damn impressive to take 7 minutes in the 4th quarter to take the lead and then win in OT:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201210280oti.htm

talk to ceej about this one:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201212020det.htm

and another 4th quarter extended drive FTW:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201212230kan.htm


>because it relies heavily on your defense, which is
>completely irrelevant to how good a QB is.
>
>Not that's handy, but a better stat is "would-be" GW drives in
>last 2 minutes or whatever.
>
>If your shitty ass defense gives up a touchdown in 30 seconds
>(coughcough WAS/NYG Gm1), that's not the QBs fault.


-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

You never know what lead to the team being behind. Could the reason the team was behind was because of the poor QB play.




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RG3 more dynamic (like insaaannnee) and minimal turnovers...wildly effective (probably my choice)

Luck bearing a greater passing burden and still super clutch (that clutch as a rookie??)

Wilson looking like the fruition of many ppl's dreams for Flutie

I still believe that. They are all having excellent seasons and it will probably come down to team success since the voters in the three big sports leagues cannot understand the concept of "individual awards."

Luck would be ROY in many seasons, but this year I don't think he deserves it.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

which is weird, who the fuck has EVER in the history of sports cared about a comeback player award? it's usual either clear cut or between a bunch of deserving but uninteresting candidates.

AP vs Peyton, that's a hot one.

still think Luck will be better?
ppl keep saying this but never actually articulate why
the most you get is the assumption that RG3 will get hurt
i guess that's valid but i think RG3 could ball out even with out his athleticism

to assume that because one guy played stronger this season that he'll continue to improve, meh, we've seen many similar cases where that didn't really happen.

i never doubted rg3 as a pocket passer, i thought that style was kind of a corny way to frame the debate even though they play differently. i just think luck is a very, very strong pure passer who has a ton of poise. from the time he broke in at syracuse i thought he was a borderline generational talent, so i'm not going to give up on him just because he is not playing AS well as a rookie.

Chicago, Minnesota, GB, Miami, NE, NYJ, Detroit

Wilson
123/190 - 64.7% - 1,537 YDS - 16TD - 1INT - 8.1 YPA - 115.6 QB Rat

Luck
177/327 - 54.1% - 2,333 YDS - 13TD - 12INT - 7.1 YPA - 74.9 QB Rat

especially to be a rookie. Unlike the other two, he doesn't have a 1000 yard rusher. In fact, he has no semblance of a running game. Teams know he has to air it out. Also, like it or not, he does posses the ability to get it done when he has to. This is not an accident or by chance. He just has it. Not to mention the all-time record for yards by a rookie. That's not something that should be glossed over. All that said, I dont think he will win, nor do I necessarily think he should. Acting as if he shouldn't even be in the discussion, however, is just silly.

Reggie Wayne is a way better WR than what Wilson or RGIII have...and that definitely helps a QB in his development.
You can also argue that the Colts had an easier schedule than both the Redskins and the Seahawks

You got me on the RB's though...Lynch and Morris are way better than what Luck is working with

predictions though
he broke Cams rookie record i heard the other day so that's a consolation prize i guess

simples.

1. he white.

2. he never won anything in college.

3. he has a buzzcut and a neck beard.

4. he has a coach fighting cancer.

5. he has a lot of passing yards.

he's the Manti Te'o of this ROY race.

RG3 > RW3 > Luck though.

Cousins performing so well takes away from RG3's argument

Its clearly the offense

Plus RG3 leads the league in passes thrown behind the line

He has a nice offensive package that maximizes his skillet

Luck has to win by himself, has to win games with his arm

No system gimmicks

You replace Luck with RG3, the Colts suck


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

And you can argue that the Colts schedule was easier than the Redskins or the Seahawks

You got me on the RB's though...Lynch and Morris are way better than what Luck is working with

However...does that make Luck better than Freeman? Cause D. Martin is also better than any Colts RB (AGENDA CROSSOVER...lol)

and again, I'm not saying Luck should or will win. But for people to be appalled that he is in the discussion is killing me. It's pretty much all on him ever week. There's no threat of a run. I guarantee you defenses are going 6 men in the box on the regular against them. So he has to throw them to a win every week...and he usually does.

at the end of the day ppl are still more impressed with what RG3 is doing
and the RB thing doesn't hold much weight
because a running QB forces a defense to change the way they defend the run ....to the benefit of the running back
that LB playing spy on RGIII is taken out of gap containment, DE's will focus on containment on the edges ...sometimes RBs run RIGHT BY the DE because the DE is so focused on keeping the running QB in the pocket lol
it's not as simple as looking at the raw numbers
ppl were talking about lesean mccoy ballin more when vick was in the game last yr
there probably are other examples too

Shit, Washington has another rookie who might finish 4th in the voting (Morris) & obviously RW has beastmode.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Nobody think Luck & Russ haven't done impressive things.

The point is that Bob is the OROY.

The original post was not, "what has Luck done?", it was "How could you vote Luck over RG3"

And the answer, as pretty much everyone here knows, is that you can't.

It as a simple question with a simple answer, that about 99% of the people here agree with.

land of forgotten athletes, or more like overlooked players.

right, but those achievements are why SOME people would vote for him. It's essentially whether you think the award is Most Outstanding Rookie or Most Valuable Rookie. If you think it's the latter then Luck has an argument.

And he's top 5 in pass attempts so his role in the turnaround is unquestionable.

Wilson has a great team and RG3 is on a good team with another great rookie. Neither team was the Colts last year.

I mean, I ain't saying RG3 and Dangerruss aren't deserving. All 3 are deserving. However this idea that there's not argument for Luck is bullshit..


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

there is a lot of dismissiveness toward Luck in this thread, absolutely. it seems like he'd have to be doing this with a pop warner to impress anyone. they were terrible, they are still pretty short on guys and they have won with them. this is not a tebow kind of thing either, it's not like they have a great defense and he's throwing balls at the hash marks more often than his receivers' hands. like i said, in most years, he'd be a mortal lock. bob has been the dude though, plus he plays in a very prominent NFL market while Luck and Wilson don't.

the OP would have you believe it's some kind of travesty that anyone would even fix their mouths to say Luck deserved consideration.

does anyone know what the turnover was from the year BEFORE the peyton injury going into the 2-14 season?
then we need to know the turnover from this offseason
i know above someone said that there were 40+ new players on this team or something crazy
obviously Luck had a part in the turn around being the centerpiece but if the above is true then there must have been a lot of new additions added that also contribute. essentially this isn't even the same team as the 2-14 squad

i am not sure about turnover figures but i know they had a ton of new faces the past two seasons. for him to step into that kind of rebuilding process and lead the team to prosperity, including some late game rallies, that's impressive. they have used him like a franchise qb that's a veteran not a potential franchise qb that's a prospect.

(not including NSP). it's definitely not the same team as 2011 at all, and the coaching has played a big part of things (especially on special teams and defensively).

offensively, the rookies have been huge: Vick Ballard, T.Y. Hilton and Dwayne Allen have all made big contributions, and Coby Fleener and Lavon Brazill added needed depth. Donnie Avery is back from the dead and Reggie Wayne is having his finest season ever (to me, he's the team MVP right now).

Cory Redding was an amazing pick-up defensively, and some other FA guys have made horrible positions decent. still...this team has a ton of holes: despite playing a weak schedule, the Colts are dead last in takeaways, 28th in sacks and 21st in points allowed. Philly rejects Winston Justice and Mike McGlynn are Indy's starters on the right side.

even discounting 2011 entirely, Luck deserves credit for shouldering an offense without a consistent running game and tons of rookies. Indy's total offense is a byproduct of volume, but to me the most impressive stat is Luck's 9th ranked conversion rate on 3rd downs...barely behind Aaron Rodgers.

>RG3 is on a good team

You're going to have games where the Skins will be expected to win now. I realize this is new, but you can't just pretend it isn't the case.

By comparing RG3's situation to Luck's, you are claiming the supporting cast is good.

There are a couple good players besides Bob, but that's it.

by no reasonable analysis is the roster around him "good".

So yeah, NO.

Bob is not surrounded by a "good" team.

You guys are soooooo sensitive. No one is saying Bob doesn't have a legit case. However, so do Luck and Dangeruss...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

>I see, so Morris is a non factor.. got it..

I even made one myself that I must retract

I still prefer him longterm over the other two

But the ROY arguments don't really add up


----------------------------

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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

That will mean their W-L records are essentially a wash. All three teams will have gone from sub .500 seasons to the playoffs with a rookie QB. Of those three QB's, one is ranked 2nd in passer rating, another is ranked 7th in passer rating, and the third is ranked 29th (ouch). Of course passer rating doesn't tell the whole tale as we all know Luck is having a great season. Still it's always been regarded as a reasonably respectable measure of QB efficiency. How can you justify leap-frogging the 29th ranked guy over numbers 2 & 7? His completion percentage is markedly lower than the other two guys. And for all this talk about "doing it all by himself", he's the only one of the three that is throwing to a Pro Bowl caliber receiver.

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I put bread on your head like powdered toast man

because you're wasting complaints posting to an OKP contingent that mostly agrees with you. the point about Reggie Wayne is pretty reductive if you're advocating Wilson, though (overall, he has much better offensive and defensive teammates).

No WR on Seattle is coming close to Reggie Wayne...not Golden Tate, not Doug Baldwin, or a back-from-the-dead Sidney Rice

>because you're wasting complaints posting to an OKP
>contingent that mostly agrees with you. the point about Reggie
>Wayne is pretty reductive if you're advocating Wilson, though
>(overall, he has much better offensive and defensive
>teammates).

I understand as a Colts fan this post might get under your skin a little, but I feel like this discussion needs to start now. I have little to no interest in local sports radio, so this would be the logical place to start the discussion. First and foremost I had an opinion (that the real debate is RGIII vs. Wilson) and I wanted to see if there was anything that I was ignorant to. Let's not understate the intelligence & the reach of the OKP Sports board. Things are borrowed from here and taken to a larger platform all the time.

_________________________________________
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I put bread on your head like powdered toast man

to argue for Wilson. yes, Wayne is much superior to anyone Wilson is throwing to, but that's it for advantages Luck has. Wilson has a much better offensive line, with an elite left tackle in Russell Okung (who completely erased Aldon Smith twice this year), a Pro Bowl, game-changing running back and the number one defense in the NFL.

unlike the Colts, the Seahawks were actually a team on the verge last season (7-9 with Lynch, budding o-line and a top ten defense) who just needed the right point man in Wilson. he's played fantastic, but if you want to compare him to Luck he's working with a roster much, much more talented.

RG3 wins the debate because he's dealing with similar team deficiencies as Luck, while outperforming Wilson.

we're arguing why he would get votes. awards are rarely unanimous so i'm not really sure why RG3 fans are freaking out.

Because Wilson and RG3 has had better seasons in my eyes.

I am rooting for Russell to take it but it will probably be Luck.

Russell is ultimately getting penalized for playing in Seattle. If he played for a bigger market, he would have gotten more hype. And before you say Luck plays in Indy, he was following Peyton.

i might vote for him over wilson, i dont know, but not rg3. i wouldnt be mad if any of them won but given his profile (preceding rep, market) i dont think wilson is going to get it.

He's only 4th in the league rushing w/ +1,400 yds and 10 TDs as a rookie. - lol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

remember the VY effect Chris Johnson benefited from all those illustrious years?

funny how Titans/NFL fans feel he's fallen off now, but really it's because the threat of the bootleg isn't there with a pocket passer like Hassellbeck at the helm.

Morris benefits a lot simply from RG3 carrying out his fake on that bootleg, or freezing that end on the triple option look.

Give that man his well deserved ROY Award already!
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000117449/article/rg3-lone-nonspecialist-rookie-to-make-pro-bowl-roster



<<<---"That's my quarterback!" (c) T.O.

...

my thoughts,

peace.

I think RG3 deserves it and Wilson is definitely in the conversation, but he's been penciled in as ROY since January 2011. Just living up to the hype is the biggest battle for #1 picks.

Take away the hype and judge them strictly on performance, I think RG3 gets it (don't really care who comes in second). But the hype plays a big role so Luck started with a headstart and has held his own (which is kinda crazy to say because he's been very good... I just think RG3 has been better).

swiped from MMQB:

The Deep End

Every week this season, Neil Hornsby of ProFootballFocus.com has used PFF's play-by-play game analysis to provide an in-depth look at an important matchup or individual performance from one of the Sunday games. Last week we took a slightly different tack, examining defensive rookie of the year candidates. This week, Hornsby looks at the offensive candidates. His report (all statistics through 16 weeks):

As exciting and promising a start as Indianapolis quarterback Andrew Luck has made, this award comes down to a battle between two players who haven't just reinvigorated their teams but have done so in a way that is directly attributable to the consistent excellence of their play. Luck has won some close encounters, but some have been due to his poor play to get the Colts into that position. Luck has had some terrific fourth quarters, but his overall play has been a roller-coaster ride. To me, this award is so closely balanced between Washington quarterback Robert Griffin III and Seattle quarterback Russell Wilson. How can we split these two outstanding players? I'll attempt to by going over key factors that determine a player's and team's success.

Supporting Cast: On the offensive line, Washington has an edge. This has been an area of strength for the Redskins, with only Tyler Polumbus at right tackle providing a significant weakness for defenses to target. Left tackle Trent Williams' Pro Bowl place was well-deserved, and center Will Montgomery was unlucky to miss out.
In Russell Okung and Max Unger, the Seahawks have players performing equally well at identical positions (LT and C) but the rest of the line has been far more fluid. While the play of Alfred Morris and Marshawn Lynch means support at running back is somewhat of a wash, pass-catcher injuries to Fred Davis and Pierre Garcon left huge holes and RGIII had to compensate, finding unexpected help when needed from players like Aldrick Robinson and Logan Paulsen. The Seattle receivers have rounded into a sure-handed group; the drop rate of both Golden Tate and Sidney Rice puts them in the top 15 in the league. Edge: RGIII -- his rotating receiving options means he's had the biggest problems and puts him slightly ahead here.
Consistency: Throughout the year Griffin is the only quarterback ProFootballFocus has not graded negatively in a single game; he has been the model of stability from his very first game against the Saints. He's never thrown more than one interception in a game (and only five total) and even in his worst performance (at the Steelers) never looked completely out of whack. In contrast, Wilson started shakily but has improved almost week by week. Eight of his 10 interceptions came in the first half of the season, and his Week 16 performance was his best, clinically dissecting the 49ers defense, one of the NFL's top two. Edge: RGIII.

Offensive Tailoring: From the very first series of Week 1 against New Orleans it was obvious that the Redskins had reconstructed their entire offense to fit the skills of their new passer. Griffin managed initially easy throws interspersed with read-option runs, then deeper play-action passes as the defenses bit up on the short stuff. Credit to Griffin for making the whole thing work superbly.
But Wilson is displaying a much fuller repertoire. Wilson is throwing deep (20 yards plus) the fourth-most in the league, with Griffin the second-least, and Griffin has thrown twice as many screens as his counterpart. Wilson's passing "grid" is significantly more balanced, and he utilizes the deep ball and throws outside the numbers far more often. Edge: Wilson -- He is making every throw, even the difficult ones, with a high degree of efficiency.

Injury Concerns: We all know Griffin has missed playing time, so maybe this is a slam dunk, but that would miss the point of just how good Wilson is when it comes to scrambling without taking undue risks. There's no doubt both players are equally fearless, but when Wilson scrambles he rarely takes big hits; he's incredibly elusive and has already avoided eight tackles on 45 scrambles compared to Griffin's three on 41. As a result he's also fumbled five fewer times than RGIII. Edge: Wilson.

In summary: Very tough call. After Week 15, PFF had Griffin just ahead and in our Pro Bowl squad too. After last week, Wilson just squeaked ahead of his rival. When pushed, my choice would be Wilson because I believe he has been less a product of the system and hence more difficult to take away. Regardless, I don't think there is a wrong answer between the two.


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20121231/peter-king-mmqb-week-17/#ixzz2GqQvug6x

I think my favorite parts of this idiocy were:

- somehow holding it against RG3 that they have a system fully tailored to his abilities

- attempting statistical analysis of which QB can make better throws with better variety

King is much better when he's evaluating who leads the league in toughness and likability.

Seattle is a coffee town. If King has just said, "I like Russell, because Seattle coffee", I would have accepted that.

Russell is having one of the best rookie seasons in league history.

RG3's is better.

400 more yards in one less game, 7 turnovers to RW's 13, 1.8 TDs per game to RW's 1.875 TDs per game.

And one less win despite having a terrible defense where Seattle's is one of the best in the league.

>I think my favorite parts of this idiocy were:
>
>- somehow holding it against RG3 that they have a system fully
>tailored to his abilities
>
>- attempting statistical analysis of which QB can make better
>throws with better variety
>
>King is much better when he's evaluating who leads the league
>in toughness and likability.
>
>Seattle is a coffee town. If King has just said, "I like
>Russell, because Seattle coffee", I would have accepted that.
>
>Russell is having one of the best rookie seasons in league
>history.
>
>RG3's is better.
>
>400 more yards in one less game, 7 turnovers to RW's 13, 1.8
>TDs per game to RW's 1.875 TDs per game.
>
>And one less win despite having a terrible defense where
>Seattle's is one of the best in the league.
>
he was using someone else's analysis, not his own.

and yeah, you can shape things to fit your particular argument, and ignore compelling counter-points but the reality is, either of them would be a great ROY selection and are clearly above Luck. and except for you and some others, most wouldn't be MAD if Russ won.

I truly couldn't care less about whether my guy wins an AWARD.

It's just amusing that people make a case for Russ.

No one on the planet would take Russ over RG3.

>I truly couldn't care less about whether my guy wins an
>AWARD.
>
>It's just amusing that people make a case for Russ.
no the amusement is that you see none

>No one on the planet would take Russ over RG3.
you mean pre-draft right?

You cannot be made at whoever gets the award this year. This rookie class has been crazy.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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It's actually gotten slightly tougher since I made the original post.

_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is the best hip-hop related internet radio show
http://thecombatjackshow.com/

I put bread on your head like powdered toast man

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
><---- 5....
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo
>
>=======================================
>Occupy Big Government..
>
>Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
>http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

I think Morris is good but playing with RGIII makes it harder to gauge exactly HOW good he really is.

_________________________________________
The Combat Jack Show is the best hip-hop related internet radio show
http://thecombatjackshow.com/

I put bread on your head like powdered toast man

Morris contributed HEAVILY so the success of the Racists this season. While leads to the 2nd point, we're talking about THIS season. There's no denying Morris had a major impact on the success of the team THIS SEASON.
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<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

Without RG3, Morris is nothing

That's the argument I hear

And Morris had nothing to do with RG3's success


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Also, couldn't the fact that Shanahan has traditionally had great running teams be used to throw shade on BOTH RG3 and Morris?

The only point I was making is that Morris, who also happens to be a rookie, is helping...like a lot. How can anyone deny that? - lol


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

n/m


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

And I NEVER said Cousins was as good as RGIII. I said that fact that Cousins sorry ass won a game shows that Washington is more than just RG3..

How you continue to deny the contributions of the 2nd leading rushing in football on the leagues #1 rushing team is just.. bizarre..




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

But carry on with your garbage theory

>How you continue to deny the contributions of the 2nd leading rushing in football
>on the leagues #1 rushing team is just.. bizarre..

both RG3 & Morris made. There's more than one rookie in DC that should be getting props...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

you can keep all dem pee-wee league trophies, I want the real.

>you can keep all dem pee-wee league trophies, I want the
>real.


----------------------------

Young Broadway Star Urgently Needs a Bone Marrow Donor. Is it you? http://MatchShannon.com/







O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "