I imagine we'll update this post frequently, since, unlike some OTHER supposedly elite young PGs, the Damaja is a complete player who cares about more than scoring.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400277874

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400277879

nm

In the last two games, he's taken 37 field goal attempts and 2 FTs. Unless you're Novak or a center shooting 60%, those numbers are really pathetic.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400277914&refresh=OFF

six of goran's 10 points came when big guys left him in PNRs.

look at here, cupid. he don't need your fake-ass love.

he's a baller, but he won't make the leap to being *great* unless he can have a lousy day shooting from the field and still score. going into tonight, he was making 1 FT for every 6 FGA. CP3 makes 1 FT for every 2.5 shots. lowry makes 1 FT for every 3 shots.

jrue's getting the turnovers under control though, which is huge.

He needs to earn some easy points when that J isn't falling. Like saturday night.

On a night when KD, russy, and serge go for 85pts. We need more than six from our best player. Wasted career nights from evan and thad.

14 games ago I thought he was the 4th best PG in the atlantic.

Good thing they play out the season.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

consistently creating your own offense. Who is afraid to collapse on him? if they had a second option, he wouldn't have to score as much and he could score in different ways. my worry isn't with jrue as much as it is with the sixers. are they repeating the mistake of casting a guy into the top scoring role just because he is their best all around player?

having bynum as a post threat would probably give him more open looks, but jrue has shot the exact same amount of threes for three years running. it hasn't matter who's been on the floor with him.

the average NBA PG takes 5.2 threes per 48 minutes. jrue takes 3.7, despite shooting 40% from out there. he'll turn down pretty good looks from three, and then shoot a 17-foot pull up.

look at anthony on the knicks. the reason his TS% is currently career high isn't because his FG% had soared -- it's because he's taking more threes than ever before (and making them). anthony is a career 33% from 3PT, but is taking almost seven per 48 minutes. it's inexcusable that jrue takes half as many. whether the responsibility falls on him or the coaching, it's bad basketball and it hasn't changed over three years.

look at this shit:

http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/1064-Jrue-Holiday/season/2012-2013-REG

click the zone FG and pts/shot tabs. dude is taking way too many trash shots from places where he shoots 34% and contributes a miserable .67 points per attempt. meanwhile, he's DESTROYING shit from the left side on 3s, yet taking way less from there. it's just idiotic.

again, midrange jumpers = garbage.

all the points above apply to his inability to get to the free throw line, too. he hasn't improved in that, either.

ratio of made FT to FGA.

2010: .172
2011: .172
2012: .184

chris paul? .368

with jrue, we've got a dude who shoots 40% from three and 80% from the line, but uses the majority of his shot attempts on low-reward jumpers (worth two points, rarely gets fouled) that he makes 35% percent of the time.

Off game last night. Even went to the free throw line a bit and watched the to's.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

no surprise to me looking at their offseason moves but the sixers desperately need a backup point guard. they have a huge dropoff from their best starter to their worst player on the bench at that position.

it's somewhat hard to believe kwame brown is still in the nba.

turner had a decent game tonight. back to jrue, i like that he is getting a little two-man game going with hawes. they generate so much better ball movement. we have been lacking a two man game for a long time, perhaps since iverson and van horn for about half a season ten years ago. depressing.

FTAs, FG%, efficiency.

Right now he is basically their everything on offense. When he is not on the floor, they are hopeless. So he is forced into taking shots and has to deal with big time collapse from the D.

If they can open the floor for him a little, I doubt his scoring would increase but his efficiency and consistency would definitely improve IMO.

a second competent player? on the sixers? that's crazy talk!

http://i49.tinypic.com/rtnekj.jpg

fucking tasty kakes and cum buckets that is

I thought he sucked last year. Maybe it was Iggy having the ball too much. But he sure is recovering from that 8 TO Average stretch

personally, i thought they should have taken a wait-and-see approach to extending him. but he's putting up big enough numbers that they surely saved a few million a year by getting it done.

i love some of the stuff i've seen on the court, but from a statistical standpoint, he's still mediocre on offense despite the impressive points and assists averages: the turnovers are really bad, his TS% and FTA are average, and he doesn't take enough threes considering his excellent FG% from out there. those things can definitely be improved upon.

he had some great plays late yesterday:

- a crucial offensive rebound that he turned into a three-point putback.
- a play on defense where he saved the ball from going out of bounds and bounced it off an opponent
- the clinching jumper, made from a spot on the right wing where he shoots about 25%

His turnovers and shooting have been getting better. According to Bballreference he is 102 off rating, but i'd guess that'd be 95 for the first 8-9 games and 108+ in the past 5.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/holidjr01/gamelog/2013/

(roughly, since it's based on possessions, not games)

first eight: 86
last six: 107

age

the impatience people show now is astonishing. they expect point guards, centers, quarterbacks, left tackles, defensemen, goalies and all the tough positions in sports to be good out of the box because a few guys have done it.

he's always been a bit of a project but since the sixers plan like crap and had loaded their roster with positionless players in the 6'6" range, they had to play him. a lot.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400277943

3rd in NBA with 9.4 APG

>http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=400277943
>
>3rd in NBA with 9.4 APG
>

Free throws man. He needs to go to the line one than once a night.

you gotta be a good scorer to get to the line a lot. you also need at least one other OK scorer with you. he's not and he doesn't. if we are looking at him as a savior of the offense, we are going to burn him out and wear him down.

you don't actually believe you need other good scorers to go to the free throw line. that's ridiculous. james harden is leading the NBA in free throws made, and the next best option on the rox is parsons. what a ridiculous plea cop for a flaw that jrue has had his entire career, no matter who has played with him.

1) He just needs some space on the floor, that's all I am saying. If you are a point guard and you're driving to the rim without anybody else being respected for a drive/kick, yes, you are going to hit traffic that's in position and apart from some dumb-luck contact, you're not going to the line that much.

2) We're comparing him to James Harden??? A two guard who is a very strong scorer? Or Wade or anybody else who's gotten to the line a lot in their career, that's just an unfair and unreasonable comparison. Jrue is never, ever going to score 25 points a night. I don't see many if any point guards going to the line like those guys, except for the big scorers (Rose, Westbrook many nights, etc). He is not like those guys. The more the Sixers force him to be, the more they are just re-doing the same mistake of saying well, you're out best athlete/skill guy, here, we need you to score a bunch and play outside your game.

jrue has taken more FG attempts than any PG in the league except for westbrook. he's tenth in the whole NBA. he's the definition of a volume scorer -- someone who puts up big point totals simply because he shoots a lot.

jrue takes 16 FGA a game.
chris paul takes 12.
rondo takes 11.
deron takes 13.
lawson takes 13.

chris paul, hardly known as a mega-physical player, takes exactly twice as many FTs as jrue does per FGA. it's a huge flaw in jrue's game that hasn't changed since he came in the league or assumed more responsibility.

same thing with assists, really. jrue has huge totals, but with about a 2:1 assist/turnover ratio. he hasn't made a leap in ability as much as a leap in usage (although he's taking much better care of the ball now than he was earlier in the season). like having him and the contract is looking great, but he's still got a ways to go to be mentioned with elite guards.

Jrue is getting 4 FTAs per game

is that really that bad

just looking at the #s from other PGs

obviously Russy gets more because of his attacking the rim style

but 4 FTAs per game looks to be about normal to me

IDK

but I totally disagree with you on the sentiment that he's only putting up numbers based on volume, or whatever you're trying to say

all of his numbers are up

FG%
3Pt%
etc...

I don't think the extra 5 min per game he's getting is the only reason he's more than doubled his assists per game

I'm gonna keep going at Coach Collins

he's been here for 2 seasons

and is just now defining roles for his players

we finally trimmed some fat

and handed the franchise over

all of that is to say

let the young bols cook

jrue is going to the line a bit more than in the past, but he's also taking a ton more shots. proportionally, it's been about the same his entire career. i don't know if it's because he lacks the ability to draw contact around the rim or because he settles for jumpers, but there's something weird and problematic here.

maybe it's a cultural thing with the sixers: they shot less free throws per FG attempt than any team in history last year (or close to it, i can't remember if they ended up setting the record).

CP3 and Russy

I think you can see the difference in their situations?

he's the #1 option this year

is 16FGAs a shitload?

I don't think so...

especially considering he's playing +38min per game

like I said

looking at other PGs #s

4FTAs doesn't look as bad as you're making it sound.

jrue's a good shooter and a good scorer. he's just relatively inefficient, because he doesn't take enough threes or get to the line. that's all i'm saying. it's difficult for him to score points when his jumper isn't working.

all this said, he's a much more efficient scorer than russy, monta or derozen, who are other perimeter players who also shoot a lot.

has been, as you know, team wide for a while. last year the whole damn team had low FTAs and no one could shoot.

bottom line

Jrue looks like he can be the player we were hoping Iggy could be

all the critiques you are throwing at Jrue

could also have been made of Iggy (in addition to everything else he DIDN'T do)

now

consider what he IS doing

and I don't have any complaints

not someone who should be the focal point of an offense, but an excellent all-around contributor. as i'm sure it's been said a million times, he's a poor man's lebron.

Free Throws

we talkin bout Free Throws

not a game

not a game

we talking about Free Throws

*edit*

did you just put Iggy and Bron's name in the same sentence

did you just did that?

c'mon man

iggy made .270 free throws for every FGA. jrue's ratio is .180 (or somewhere around there).

i stand by that description, too. similar mix of diverse skills and athleticism, just not nearly as good at any of them.

to 14 range.

you're going to get fouled because you have some room and, more importantly, you're dangerous enough that you'd likely score otherwise. so it's part your situation, but mostly your scoring ability. holiday doesn't have it relative to westbrook or harden or rose or paul or whomever we are discussing here. he just has it relative to the rest of the sixers.

in an ideal world, he'd have fewer FGAs and roughtly the same number of FTAs with a slightly higher FG and 3P percentage. that would erase your ratio issue, yet he'd get to the line no more and score a little less if at all.

your trotting out some overqualified, ass-harvested stat doesnt impress me dude, take that shit to clutch city or some other message board full of teenagers. are you saying he needs to drive the ball more? initiate more contact? what? you're really not saying shit.

i'm not sure why you've arguing against something that's totally obvious. if he's going to shoot a lot, he needs to draw more free throws to become an elite scorer. this isn't debatable.

who has the expectation that he will be "an elite scorer?" do you really see that for him as a ceiling and also as an optimal role?

the numbers are easy. you seem to think some advanced stat or metric wins every argument because half the time you get a "what's that?" response. not from me and not on one that really could be pieced together from common sense anyway.

do i really need to repeat again why the number is insignificant? is it really the FIRST thing that would come out of anything less than a hater's mouth when you look at him taking steps forward in many areas of the game?

He's around 22-23 attempts a game probably. So he's almost putting up as many shots as points scored. Getting to the line is especially helpful for him cause otherwise he'd be damn near putrid some games

TS% is what matters, because it include FTs and is weighted for threes. harden is about the same as bron, (new improved) anthony and (fountain of youth) kobe. a drop-off from his insane numbers from last season, but as good as any elite scorer except durant. i'm really not sure what you're trying to argue, but harden is a superstar in terms of scoring.

Just telling concrete that harden takes a shot for every point scored and that he'd be borderline pathetic if he didnt get to the line since that improves his TS%
What are you countering exactly .....and y?

i expect guinness to be on that tip because Jrue's success this season is a L for him
but everybody else is being extra
he's not a top 5 PG (yet) , he's not even an elite player
but the fact of the matter is he has made the leap the sixers were waiting for
it came a year late i guess, but whatever. he's 22.
he's clearly the best player on the sixers, maybe the best on ball PG defender in the league, and is a pass first PG despite his # of attempts
anyone focusing on TS% , free throw attempts, etc for a dude who is not a scorer and never was....is basically reaching for something bad to say about his game because he's clearly exceeding expectations and producing wins on a team that really isn't that good

he shouldnt have gotten as much tick as he did, especially in that first year. this organization is just so starved for any kind of halfway dynamic talent.

sixers tried to bring him along slowly but dudes like lou willz didn't perform well enough at the PG spot so they just kind of let jrue learn on the job as the best avail. option

as i said above, he's tenth in the league in field goal attempts. and he has a terrible rate of FTA per FGA, due to his love of long jumpers (but not threes).

TS% is the number than matters if we're talking about shooting. and jrue shoots a shit-ton.

lulz at this "L for guinness" agenda. i like jrue and i want him to do well. he was shitty last season, and i suggested taking a wait and see approach before investing in him long term. as it turns out, due to his big numbers, they probably saved some money by getting it done early. all my criticisms are based on what he needs to do change to become great, and not merely good.

he doesn't get to the line. it's not his game idiot, get over it
sixers are happy, team is doing better than expected, and jrue is being discussed as an up and coming PG now
all that other shit you're talking is just a way to toss any sort of negatively out there
jrue isn't ever going to be james harden getting to the line 10 times a night, bricking jumpers, and being completely useless if he's D'd up properly
he has other facets to his game
could jrue get to the line more? sure he could drive to the basket with his arms extended like harden 15 times a game. he could develop a post up game and cut down the turnovers too. shit let's just max out all his attributes to 99 while we're at it so you have nothing negative to say
somehow over the course of a month your position has shifted from the sixers don't need to extend him to evaluating him like he's a top 10 player in the league. yea stfu already, you're trolling

i'm extremely happy that jrue is turning into a good player. with him and (ughhhh) bynum, they would have the making of a very nice young core. and as much as i've hated on turner--for good reason--i'm glad he's playing well of late.

james harden is the best in the league at drawing fouls (and is great because of it). so, no, i don't expect jrue to be like that. but it would be nice if a guy who takes a ton of shots, is 6-foot-6, and makes 80% of his FTs was at least above average at getting to the line. it's not nitpicking.

or anything close. he is really about 6'2", i just stood next to him last Sunday oddly enough and we were eye to eye. i'm not quite 6'2", but i'll give him the benefit of having shoes that were thinner soled. dude is 6'3" max.

He played like crap for the better part of last year. He played a little better in the playoffs. But he's been worlds better this season. Acknowledge that already. More than once exactly. Not everything is an agenda. Sometimes fans of the team want to see players get better. FOH with all that other shit you talking.



A Philadelphia 76ers blog, hosted by Christopher A. Vito

Monday, November 26, 2012

JRUE HOLIDAY GETS "FREE" ADVICE FROM DOUG COLLINS ON GETTING TO THE LINE

At his locker, answering questions about his career-best performance, Jrue Holiday was clutching a DVD of footage from Sunday's win over Phoenix.

It happens all the time, that Holiday will watch game tape right after the game has concluded. And from this one, Sixers coach Doug Collins wanted him to see one particular play.

Collins said Holiday's penchant for shooting leaners, preferring to jump sideways instead of up and down prevents Holiday from drawing fouls and getting to the free throw line.


“One of the things I’m going to show Jrue on tape a little bit is he’s picking up his dribble one dribble too soon going to the basket, so what’s ended up happening is he’s not high-jumping," Collins said. "He’s jumping sideways. When he jumps sideways, he’s shooting the ball over his shoulder and referees are not going to give him that foul because he’s the one leaning in. So we have to work with him. Grant Hill did that in Detroit. You have to take one more dribble and make sure you get contact. Once Jrue does that – what did he have, eight free throws today? – he can be shooting eight, 10 free throws every game. We’ll show him tape on that."

And Holiday knows it, too. After his 33-point, 13-assist performance, he said his inability to draw fouls could be the thing that keeps him from taking his game to the next level.

“To get to the next level, I do need to get to the free throw line more. Taking that extra dribble, because I take off so far (away), it’ll give me a better chance of getting to that guy’s body. The ones tonight, where I made the initial contact, that’s not a foul. That’s because I took from so far (away). If I take that extra dribble, and go up straight trying to get that contact, that’s what he’s talking about. Yeah, Lou Williams. He’s always at the free throw line. Even though some of them didn’t look like fouls, didn’t look like contact, he’s always there."

----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

get to the launching pad, go up strong, finish with authority and if you do those things you are gonna get more FTAs.

but i'm not "alarmed" by his not getting there as much now, i don't think it's permanent and i'm certainly not obsessing over ratios.

it has been permanent for his entire career, and the ratios are how we know this. i mean, you're in here arguing against WHAT JRUE AND COLLINS JUST FRIGGING SAID IN AN INTERVIEW ABOUT HOW HE DOESN'T SHOOT FOUL SHOTS

that the specific ratio is not a huge concern. and even where things might balance out even without more FTAs, that's down the line. in the immediate, he is their best scorer and a guy who is going to dominate the ball. so they need it from him and the sooner the better. my argument is that the number isn't *so* telling and it's certainly not the first thing to come up. it makes it sound "yeah, but without this ..." as opposed "well, he can be commended for_________, and if he got to the line more he'd be even better."

Gotcha....foh lol
And no one is arguing that he couldn't be taking more FTs
So not sure what the article was supposed to prove....that collins knows something a bunch of ppl on a messageboard gleaned from boxscores?
The question is why is it constantly being bought up.
13 and 15 and the win....and the first you bring up is him getting to the line?
Naw thats obviously not nit picking....you just want him to get better?
Lol k

and people still nit-picked.

crazy

why do i find this a fine time to bring up that he has missed one game out of 164 possible in his career to date? hmmm, odd.

something tells me i'll be bringing up more shit tho...a lot more

and jennings better than rubio. but, at least that was plausible.

you going wit jrue? crazy talk

good young guards that aren't in the elite group, but will have occasional huge games. speaking of jennings, that's another dude that really needs to shoot more free throws.

rubio's been out and you won't let it rest, please believe you've earned an extra reminder every time that fiberglass race car gets a crack in it.

his numbers are virtually identical to two years ago, except with bigger totals because of increased usage. and that's dope. but my continuing point is just that in order to make that proverbial "leap" there are things he needs to improve at. hopefully he will. i love watching him play and his development is critical to philly ever becoming a contender. it's not hating to see some flaws and bring them up, especially when they're obviously things he can get better at.

Watching the games and noticing something about a player's game rather than glancing at a box score and seeing double digits.

The quickest player on the floor being guarded by kemba and ramon taking 15 shots and only going to the line one once. Thinking he could have had 20 and 15 just by drawing contact and getting some freebies. Where he shoots 80%!

The fuck was I thinking.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

Never saw you bring up FTs any other time in Jrues career lol
Maybe its coincidence yall both started talking bout it over the last few weeks ....but doubt it
Not going go back and forth over why its unreasonable for a "fan" of dude to completely ignore all the positives and improvements and harp on FT attempts every thread
Someone posted that he had a good game you RAN in here saying you'd "hate to be that guy" bwhahaha
Do u fam

especially now that he's TOP TEN IN THE NBA in field goal attempts. but none of this new. all this shit we're talking about (3s, FTs, harden/manu) is common knowledge among people who aren't trapped in the 90s.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/49511/masonhaberstroh-post

And here's one...drawing contact and going to the free throw line won't make him james harden or whatever other agenda you have going on. It'll make him a better player and the sixers a better team. All I care about.

This isn't even advanced stats stuff. Just him going to the line about 2-3 more times a game can mean the difference between him being a 18pp scorer and a 24pp scorer.

You KNOW this! You're an AI fan. You saw those 8-25 nights where he couldn't buy a shot, but would finish with 30pts simply by going to the line.

I said earlier in the post and I'll repeat it again, before the season started I thought he was the 4th best PG in the division. He's shown me something in these last few weeks (this season) He can be better than that. But I also see flaw in his game that can make him even. I posted friday because it was glaring. I saw dude come down the floor a few times and work too damn hard to come away with nothing for his trouble.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

1)

*notices them 'bliminals*

Jrue still overpaid.

should be the starting PG in the east, but fans get distracted by mean mugs and rep.

**moves it at last second & gives you the finger**

that's why his players have value on the next level.

as wack as he is in comparison to jrue and russy...even collison is a starting PG in the nba
howland certainly farmed that state well and churned out talent

other 2.....

primarily because of his size....and the fact that he's not a jump shooter...

both Wessy and Rue have more size to get more shots off in the pros...


Collison has shown some effectiveness in the NBA...on the right team he would be an important factor.... he's as fast a guy as their is in the NBA and actually has some pretty explosive hops...

wish their was a way the Lakers could get him.

DC is exactly what I thought he'd be in the pros - a borderline starter but a pretty solid backup. Sometimes he gets hot and he can carry you for a bit, but he doesn't really have it in him to be a consistent NBA starter.

----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

it's a great program historically but you can't give me any bullshit about howland shaping him, love or westbrook.

Drafted him 17th with Lawson, Teague, Maynor, and Collison still on the board.

Only the third player from that draft to be on an AS team. But not really because Curry should be on this year's team as well.


----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

Lawson was appealing but just too small. Jrue had the making to be a stopper and a good game manager if nothing else, a guy who'd play a bigger role than those guys.

a lot of folkd wanted maynor

Been a long road back

1st team defense last year

career highs across the board this year

Shouts to the homie and blessings to his fam.

>Been a long road back
>
>1st team defense last year
>
>career highs across the board this year
>
>Shouts to the homie and blessings to his fam.

One of my favorite players in the league

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "