Damn didn't see that coming

https://twitter.com/WojYahooNBA/statuses/262384227788660737



The Rockets send Kevin Martin, Jeremy Lamb and future draft considerations to the Thunder for Harden, sources tell Y! Sports.

***
I'm tryna be better off, not better than...

nm

Seriously this takes me totally be surprise... I thought they were really close to coming to an extension.

http://i.imgur.com/L0acA.gif

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

i think they can make that work

depending on the pick it could be good to great for both.

.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

__________________________________________________________________________
WORLD STAR IN THIS BITCH!!!! WORLD STAR IN THIS BITCH!!!!

Russy gonna rape Kobe and Nash.


















I hope :-(

DAMN

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--thunder-trade-james-harden-to-rockets-27481909.html

***************
I've traveled far and wide through many different times...

I think this came down to OKC not wanting to MAX him out and I don't blame them. They still gotta build a squad around their two best players. It's different if you have LeBron, Bosh and Wade. Harden isn't better than any of those guys. So you can't build a team like that in OKC.

They get a very decent shooter in Kevin Martin, and bench guy in Lamb and I'm sure they got some nice picks outta this since Houston has a ton to give.

People will bitch about how the frontcourt guys were expendible, but you can replace Harden alot easier than Ibaka. Plus they have Perry Jones chillin too.

Harden gets to go to Houston and show if he's worth a MAX deal. We shall see.

Rockets Receive:
Harden, Hawyard, Cook, and Aldrich

Thunder Receive:
Martin, Lamb, Toronto 1st Rounder, Dallas 1st Rounder, and Charlotte 2nd Rounder

picks for a superstar. Harden is good but hes not that superstar I was hoping for.

Folks laugh at Kevin Martin but hes a more efficient scorer than Harden. When that dude is on he can put the rock in the hole--especially with his ability to get to the line. He was looking like he was getting back into form this offseason.

I love getting Aldrich back. Hes gonna be able to back up our C spot right away while Greg Smith and Dmo develop.

Wish we coulda given up Royce White or Ppat instead of Jeremy Lamb

>Folks laugh at Kevin Martin but hes a more efficient scorer
>than Harden.

Harden was more efficient last year than Martin has ever been.

if youre talking %ages. I used a poor word to describe it so I get where your coming from. Martin can give a team 20 ppg without having the ball in his hands as much as harden. He can play off the ball a lot more and yet still has the ability to get to the line. 2 years ago who lead the league in FT makes. A lot of time he gets the benefit of the doubt anytime he drives teh ball cause he looks so weak.

He's not gonna bring the playmaking Harden had at all but he can come in and start and be on the court with Russell and Durant more, or still provide a scoring punch off the bench. This also gives them the opportunity to let Westbrook grow as a playmaker. I know people shit on him as a decision and playmaker, but I think he takes another step this year in that regard.

That team is so weird, they go from a guy being their main player to his basically losing his job to injury and dying a slow death. Then they trade wing for big trying to cash in on a surplus, turn around and trade that big for another wing.

WOW.

originally...don't see how Houston loses there. 2 firsts is a good look for OKC, not mad at them for that

44. "Better than giving up 2 of their own 1st's, no?"

How does a team get "2 of their own 1st rounders"?

Then OKC would have 2 first round picks that originally belonged to the Rockets, one in 2013 and one in 2014. Instead Houston keeps those, as they traded 2 firsts they got from other teams. They had extra picks to trade and so they still have a first in this year's draft (their own) and next year's (their own).

If their pick ends up being better than the two they traded away than that's slightly good.

let's say everything goes right with their squad and they end the year with lin, harden, ross, dm, asik or maybe patterson/royce in there at forward.

that's a lot of potential for upside. only problem is it's all rolling the dice.

but that's better than sitting on kevin martin and draft picks.

i mean...i still think their gm is an idiot, but at least now there's a semblance of a game plan.

anyways. In that sense its making something outta nothing.

But you never know. he looked to be playing with some urgency this summer and preseason and was actually looking really sharp. im fine giving up lamb. Like LABEAT said, he can be good, but right now he inst ready. Itll be awhile.

Rockets can still add 1 more guy

Per Feigen

Jonathan Feigen @Jonathan_Feigen

Hearing a lot about Lin, Asik contracts. Keep in mind, Rockets still have room for another max FA next summer, even after Harden gets max.

nm

>let's say everything goes right with their squad and they end
>the year with lin, harden, ross, dm, asik or maybe
>patterson/royce in there at forward.
>
>that's a lot of potential for upside. only problem is it's all
>rolling the dice.
>
>but that's better than sitting on kevin martin and draft
>picks.

I think Kevin martin is being underrated overall by the public though. Harden is definitely better all around--but not a better scorer.

win win deal here because it addressed needs and diversified holdings for OKC. meanwhile houston managed to get a big name by pooling some stuff that individually was not a high value but collectively was attractive.

that's a wild, weird, unexpected trade.

Dork Elvis making moves was a given this year, but THIS move? If Harden re-signs there...good on him.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Martin stay hurt

Could they not have amnestied Perk and spent the money on Harden? Or they could have traded him to Charlotte for the #2 pick, and I assume future picks/etc?

Either way, I have a hard time believing that was the best deal they could get. I at least have to see what these "significant future draft picks" are that Woj is talking about.

I ain't mad at them. Kevin Martin can give them the scoring off the bench for now and they way Presti drafts he can probably turn those picks into something good.

take some pressure off his ass for sure

Ibeka got less than max but it's incentive laden so he *could* still get the max
Harden didn't want to take that....so peace out
They got to keep the player that is more valuable to their team AND added depth
Smart decision by the thunder and another dumb decision by Morey the Metrics Boy

Nuts....

I think he could end up being the best player out of Houston's 2012 draft class

http://www.nba.com/rockets/roster/2012

This is how you run a fuckin small market/mid market franchise. You keep leverage and you stock assets. You don't overpay and put your eggs all in one basket.

I'm fuckin jealous right now. This shit was some jedi shit.

Joe Dumars.....this is how it's done man. Get back to what you do Joe.

Cole Aldridge, Lazar Hayward, and Daequan Cook.

damn that's not bad compensation for OKC.

we aint need no more kiddoes around...kmart was not a hot trade commodity..nobody wanted him..so we basically got an already made player for those picks..

and then..lamb aint all that..preseason told me so

no bullshit. If he ain't taking the deal, let's move him. I get it.

houston is getting the best player in the deal, that's solid, too. it's not like they were going to get a lot for martin or lamb individually or that those guys were long-term pieces. so they basically got him for the picks.

OKC get their paper straight, get a guy to fill the role with Martin, add another player to their rotation and diversify holdings with some future picks (two firsts and a second seems to be what's out there now). This is definitely the type of trade they needed to make, we'll see how they make it work.

Is Maynor running the offense for their 2s enough? Not hating, I'm just curious if it's gonna work out for them... Martin can replace Harden's scoring close enough but he's not nearly the playmaker that Harden is.

I really think Lamb might have walked right into the perfect situation for him too... he's got that ultimate glue guy potential, he could develop into that 2 they need full-time next to Westbrook who can defend and be a threat to score without needing to dominate the ball.

There's no guarantee 3 years from now they'll be title contenders...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

a guy steps in and performs harden's exact role or they have a strict second unit. obviously i am just guessing but IMO when you have two big-minute, big-money stars, you can always take the phil jackson approach of never having both guys off the floor at the same time. problem solved.

Harden said no, so now he's gone

young niggas don't give a shit about rings, it's all about that paper. Harden wasn't signing any deal short of that max 60 mil.

***************
I've traveled far and wide through many different times...

you gotta figure that from the team's standpoint that $1M a year meant something otherwise they'd have just gone all in and said fuck it.

harden now giving us the typical weepy lines about leaving and being stunned, blah blah blah. they send these guys to the same fucking cliche school now.

the timing is weird to me...53 isn't THAT far from 60 especially considering they could have taken the entire year to keep negotiating...like someone said, their window is now. even though they're setting up to be good long term with young players locked up, etc. but you can't predict the future.

they've already hit homeruns with 4 draft picks (KD, Russ, Harden, Ibaka)which, while the result of great GM work, is also part luck. losing one of those guys in hopes that you hit two more homeruns (lamb & the toronto pick) seems iffy to me. they have to be confident that their team now can still compete, but they're obviously not on the same level they were (unless lamb & PJ3 ball out this year).

:-)

>>>Houston got 3rd best backcourt in nba

He was just walking around with all these assets and nothing to show for it.

Now he has Chicago's backup center, the Knicks' superstar PG for 25 games and OKC's 6th Man

>
>Now he has Chicago's backup center, the Knicks' superstar PG
>for 25 games and OKC's 6th Man

>He was just walking around with all these assets and nothing
>to show for it.
>
>Now he has Chicago's backup center, the Knicks' superstar PG
>for 25 games and OKC's 6th Man

>Now he has Chicago's backup center, the Knicks' superstar PG
>for 25 games and OKC's 6th Man

i was scared they were gonna fall for the banana in the tailpipe and max that overrated dude. very nice return package. martin'll replace 90% of what harden brought to the table, lamb was the best SG in the draft, and they'll turn those picks into a couple solid rotation guys to support durant + westbrook thru their primes.

good job, presti.

>martin'll replace 90% of what harden brought to the
>table

harden is a better athlete, defender and he was more efficient. but most importantly he was the team's best playmaker.

i said he was their best one, and kevin martin will not replace that aspect of Harden's game.

and despite his selfishness, kobe has been our lone playmaker for most of that decade, he did a good job balancing that MJ/Pip role in the triangle.

...

....

no way they get rid of harden without believing jones the real thing and that lamb can help

of Harden's playoff performance last season. i don't think that can be understated. dude WILTED.

demanded he was going to walk.

And apparently OKC did offer him close to the max but I think it was about more than money, I think he wants to be out of KD and Westbrook's shadow.

He sucked in the finals, but he looked better than he ever has throughout the Western Conference playoffs.

John Hollinger ‏@johnhollinger
Just realized that OKC arguably got more for Harden than Magic did for Dwight.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/blogs/nba-point-forward/2012/08/21/james-harden-okc-thunder-potential-trade/

"As for Harden, Houston could get far enough under the cap to offer several types of packages — one built around Kevin Martin’s expiring deal and a couple of picks, including Toronto’s likely lottery pick; or another built around those same picks, plus some combination of young wing players (Jeremy Lamb, Chandler Parsons, etc). (Note: Any deal involving Martin would require the Thunder to send out about $2.5 million in salary on top of Harden)."

This is smart GM'ing for both teams. One monkey don't stop no show. Martin's a professional 2, playing for his next deal on a contender. Lamb is a sixth man and a potential starter on a rookie deal next year.

3 first round picks? They have no more use for youngins. Those are getting flipped somewhere. Great job by Presti.

Morey did something sooner than later. And that helps the team. Nothing's worse than being a team in flux for a season (see last year's Nets) They have a star that can give them firepower at an All-Star Caliber and they added James Harden! (I couldn't resist.)

still gonna have tons of cap room next summer. Young forwards, hopefully one's a keeper, and one can be flipped. Absorb a deal in a trade? Sign a FAgent? Good move by Morey.

Okc won probably long term but Houston got a good player for sure.

harden's the best offensive SG in the NBA after manu -- but far younger. houston got a potential superstar without giving up any part of their core. it's not a bad deal for OKC, but they let their second-best player leave and didn't get back a second-best player. they're not winning a second round game in the west. and the rockets will make the playoffs.

>harden's the best offensive SG in the NBA after manu

you mean comin off the bench right?

Westbrook is explosive and sometimes unguardable, but he shoots too erratically and turns the ball over too frequently. Harden is the most efficient shooting guard in the league outside of Manu, and is 23 years old. Westbrook is way better on defense though.

OKC fucked themselves by opting for Russy over Harden.

could this efficiency have to do with the guys around him? now he is going to a situation where he becomes the number 1 option 100% of the time. he is going to have a steep curve, i think you'll reevaluate this harden>russy argument soon.

of drawing the opposing team's #1 defender

i love watching him play, but he's an above-average point guard and not a superstar. his phenomenal athleticism and occasional huge games camouflage a guy doesn't do anything on an elite level except get to the foul line (and make them). russy is young and his shooting keeps improving, so i don't think he's reached his peak. that said, i'd rather have harden because he's younger and better.

look at harden's offensive rating and TS%. shit is out of control.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=westbru01&y1=2012&p2=hardeja01&y2=2012

>harden's the best offensive SG in the NBA after manu -- but
>far younger. houston got a potential superstar without giving
>up any part of their core.

what "core" did they have to give up?

they definitely went to some trouble to get asik and lin. both are young and relatively affordable until year three. and parsons is young and dirt cheap. i'm not saying those guys are irreplaceable, but they're mainly who the rox are building around (outside of harden and whoever they try to sign in the offseason).

best case scenario dude is sideshow andy.

Harden is the best player in the deal no doubt but he is no more a building block than Eric Gordon, who people weren't exactly ejaculating over when he arrived in New Orleans.

I'm surprised by the surprise here, it's a paper straightening move by OKC first and foremost and therefore a W in my book because it also makes a lot of basketball sense.

Ibaka's extension kicks in next year, they weren't gonna pay five guys $10M+ so they had some urgency to make a move now or in the immediate future. Martin comes off the books this year, too, right? They stock under these guys with Lamb and the picks, nice.

Morey does well here but overall not enough to save face after the Dwight debacle.

Harden and Gordon are not comparable. By any offensive metric that values efficiency, Harden is absolutely an elite player. While I agree that his responsibility will change, in Houston I'm not of the mind that his TS% will drop 100 points, which would STILL have him higher rated than Melo or Kobe. I mean, his numbers were fucking insane last year. I'm talking about only offense here.

>Harden and Gordon are not comparable. By any offensive metric
>that values efficiency, Harden is absolutely an elite player.


I like Harden and all...

But elite? Nah....He's good though...In order to be elite, you have to shoulder a huge amount of responsibility in terms of offense...

Harden was never the man on his own team...Let's come back down to earth here...

As if Durant and Westbrook's presence didn't have an enormous impact on Harden's efficiency.

All this nerd metric number crunching shit is getting tiring. Watch basketball. Harden's not a lead dog. Not a max player, Houston's not going anywhere with him as their best player.

a level with elite players, that to me shows that sometimes figures lie, even "advanced" ones.

he can be a nice #2 option, i definitely see the reasoning here but i suspect houston is not done dealing.

because i know the numbers better than you, i must not watch games.

and there's the equal aspect of his impact on his teammates, or does that only go one way?

nevermind that of the 5 man lineups harden played in, the second most common lineup had both Durant and Westbrook on the bench last season and was as efficient as the with durant and westbrook lineup and that the difference on the team of him being on and off the court led to a substantial gap where Gordon's never did.

so yeah, even if you take into account that he had durant/westbrook while gordon had blake/davis...he's better.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

though I could see why it was taken that way, based on where I replied.

I was more challenging the notion that Harden is an "elite" player because of his efficiency ratings.

I think he's good. Maybe even very good, but I don't see elite and I don't think he's a max contract guy. And I think that will likely show in Houston. We'll see.

Lawson not taking 11 million a year is basically holding out for the max.

There seems to not be a lot of in between these days. If you're decent with upside on a rookie contract you get a near max deal. You may not think a guy is worth that, but the market will say that he is. Somebody will pay--if you don't math you lose your guy for almost nothing. Few teams are lucky enough to have guys who are really worth max deals but letting a guy go fr nothing that you've spent 3 yrs developing does nothing for you either.

If there was no cap guys like Lennon would get 50 million a year.

>As if Durant and Westbrook's presence didn't have an enormous
>impact on Harden's efficiency.
>
>All this nerd metric number crunching shit is getting tiring.
>Watch basketball. Harden's not a lead dog. Not a max player,
>Houston's not going anywhere with him as their best player.

Harden being THIS good? I did not see it coming.

.

http://t.co/f82gwwtW


Inside look at James Harden's trade to Rockets

By Adrian Wojnarowski | Yahoo! Sports – 2 hours 40 minutes ago

For months, Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey called on Oklahoma City's Sam Presti, probing him with a simple question: Want to discuss a deal for James Harden yet? Over and over, the response had been an unwavering no. The Thunder wanted to sign Harden to a contract extension, hold together their young core and try to win championships for years and years.
Finally, there had come a call within the past several days to Morey: Presti wanted to seriously discuss the framework of a trade, because if Harden wouldn't take the Thunder's final offer, this promised to be the next step. From owner Clay Bennett to Presti and assistant GM Troy Weaver, a decision had been made: James Harden had played his final game for the Thunder.
After turning down a $52 million extension several days ago, Harden's agent, Rob Pelinka, flew from Los Angeles to Oklahoma City on Friday for a final sit-down with Presti. He wanted a max contract of four years, $60 million for his client, and had come to Oklahoma City to push management as far as it would go on an offer.
Before sitting down a final time with Pelinka, Presti became more serious in his discussions with Morey. Houston wanted Harden badly, believed he would evolve into a transcendent franchise star for a championship-caliber team and planned to award him a five-year maximum contract worth nearly $80 million. So, Presti laid out what he wanted for Harden and the original price was steep: Kevin Martin, Chandler Parsons, Jeremy Lamb and three first-round picks, including Houston's own in 2013.
Across 72 hours and culminating on Friday night, the deal became this: Martin, Lamb and two first-round picks, including a guaranteed plumb lottery pick via Toronto. Before Presti sat down with Pelinka on Saturday morning to make his final offer of $54 million over four years, the Rockets were made to understand: If Harden turns down, your long-awaited star is on his way to Texas.

In those finals hours on Saturday, the NBA made clear to Oklahoma City and Houston: Under no circumstances could Morey and Pelinka discuss a potential contract extension. Nevertheless, it was understood Morey would never let Wednesday's deadline pass without giving Harden the five-year max extension that wasn't available in Oklahoma City.
All along, Pelinka and Harden understood: From the Rockets, to the Phoenix Suns, to the Dallas Mavericks, there was a maximum contract offer awaiting him in free agency. Harden's market value wouldn't be dictated on the fact the Thunder planned to pay him as the franchise's third-best player. Less money and a sixth-man role – after a summer with Team USA at the Olympics, this was an impossible sell on Harden.

The impact on the Thunder locker room won't have the dark fallout some fear. When word reached Russell Westbrook late on Friday, he was disappointed Harden was gone – loved him as person, a teammate – but he wasn't devastated over the deal. Privately, Westbrook loved how Presti had strengthened the back of the Thunder roster with two rookies, Perry Jones and Houston draft pick Jeremy Lamb. He always admired how Martin had scored on the Thunder.
Center Kendrick Perkins also had privately told people he believed a trade was inevitable, too. To a man, none of the key Thunder players were surprised this happened, and none are conceding championship aspirations. In some ways, they can all breathe out now: This is the team, and now they go forward.
If nothing else, Westbrook and Kevin Durant have long learned to trust the judgment of Presti and Weaver. When the Thunder couldn't get an extension done with Jeff Green, they turned him into a piece the franchise desperately needed: Perkins. Everyone in the organization privately knew this, too: Harden wouldn't have thrived with the uncertainty and questions that would come with him unsigned past Wednesday, with him headed to the Feb. 21 trade deadline and, ultimately, restricted free agency on July 1.

Harden struggled in the NBA Finals, tried too hard and slowly, surely unraveled over the course of the series. When the rest of the Thunder were celebrating a Game 1 victory over Miami in the locker room, Harden could be heard grumbling over too few shots (five), and too few minutes (22).
Veterans Derek Fisher and Perkins laid into Harden, telling him essentially: We just won an NBA Finals game and the last thing in the world that ought to worry you are your individual statistics. Harden apologized, but it was clear his mindset wasn't right. He never found his way back into a proper rhythm in the Finals.

This isn't an indictment of Harden. He cares deeply, but it is hard to be 23 years old and needing to prove yourself worthy of the salary that will come with stardom. There's a popular argument that Harden isn't worth max money, because he played so poorly in the Finals. He was magnificent for the Thunder a year ago, regular season through the Western Conference finals victory over San Antonio. If he ever gets there again, he'll probably play better.
The Rockets don't need Harden to play well in the Finals this year, or next, because they won't be there. They'll now feature an offense around Harden and believe he'll blossom into an annual All-Star, an all-league player.
Oklahoma City's front office was melancholy on Saturday night. They had drafted this core, developed it and hoped they could keep it together for years and years. Ownership might have gone further with its final offer of $54 million, but Presti drew the line on how much he was willing to invest into Harden and ended the talks there. The NBA's new collective bargaining agreement delivers devastating luxury-tax penalties to teams over the cap – $1.50 for every dollar over the tax threshold – and Presti simply couldn't justify the cost. This wouldn't go until Wednesday night's deadline, Presti informed Pelinka. That's the final offer, and his next call would be to Houston to tell Morey: Let's reach out to the league office and get a trade call to make this official.

In the end, Presti would secure a player to score off his bench this year (Martin), a gifted prospect for the future (Lamb) and a lottery pick that could give the Thunder a chance to draft another elite talent. Giving the Thunder another protected first-round pick from Dallas was more than Houston wanted to do, but the Rockets weren't willing to let Presti get on the phone and find a better deal. Morey believes Jeremy Lin and Harden will be stars in the NBA, and he's gambling his own – and his franchise's – future on it.
From Sam Presti to Daryl Morey to James Harden, everyone ran his share of risk in this scenario and it all tumbled into motion in these final, frenzied 48 hours. This is the kind of deal that changes careers, changes franchises, and everyone breathed out on Saturday and understood: No turning back now.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7982195/the-many-faces-oklahoma-city-thunder-guard-james-harden

In high school and college, Harden had accepted the leading role — but only grudgingly. "Coming up, he was always the best player," says Glasser, who played with him at Artesia and Arizona State. "But he never played like he was the best player." Intensely competitive but eager to please, Harden only grew assertive when he realized that everyone — teammates especially — wanted him to. "Sometimes we would all just look at him, and it was kind of like, OK, let's go, buddy! We want to win, so we need you to take over!" Glasser remembers. "Whether he wanted to or not, he had to accept the fact that when the game was on the line, it was up to him. That just comes with the territory."

It's not that Harden was unwilling to dominate, but he was a reactive player who countered opponents rather than imposing his will on them. "James is like a martial artist," Arizona State coach Herb Sendek says. "He uses the force of the game against itself. He doesn't play with predetermined conclusions." On the first game of a northwest road trip his sophomore year at ASU, Harden dropped 36 points on 21 shots in a win over Oregon. Two nights later, against an Oregon State team that trapped and double-teamed him all night, he played the decoy role, and the Sun Devils won again. "After that game," Sendek says, "he was celebrating just as much as anyone. It didn't matter that he had barely scored."

Though Harden was slotted near the top of most draft boards, Presti's decision to pick him over Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio, and Stephen Curry was largely based on fit. Shortly before the draft, Harden sent Presti an e-mail explaining why he thought he belonged in Oklahoma City. "He made it clear that he understood the ethos of the organization," Presti says. "He understood the dynamic of our team, that it wasn't going to be a typical situation for someone drafted that high. Instead of being worried about it, he was motivated by it."

They say he would've stayed for 4/60, but I have a hard time believing that when he can get 5/80 somewhere else. A guaranteed year and $28 mil is a LOT to leave on the table.

Supposedly before the draft, he told the THunder's GM that he didn't want to be "The Man" like he was in college.

But now he still wanted to be paid like "The Man" (which I don't blame him)... so something had to give.

lol at Tony Allen. Somehow I woulda guessed he would spell Harden's name wrong.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/50703/nba-players-react-to-harden-trade#comment

in Martin

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/film-session-kevin-martin

It would have been HARSH for about 3-4 seasons.

they got cheaper (martin is off the books this summer), they are STILL title contenders, they got deeper and in 2 seasons that team may be the most talented in the league.

Let's say they keep one of the picks (Toronto's since it's lottery). trade the other two for future assets or a vet that can help. And PJIII and lamb WILL develop with this team.

that's a legit 8 guys that can contribute.

Right today, OKC took a baby step back (but still no worse than 3rd best team in the league). Next season and season after...HUGE steps forward.

And the tax woulda been around 9 mil?

Edit im wrong lol...im not sure how much over the tax they would be

And if they don't, sell the fucking team. This idea that a prestige property like an NBA team should turn a profit every year is comedy (and I'm sure they turn a profit anyway). But seriously, some billionaire dickwads broke up a potential dynasty because they didn't feel like paying for one. Fuck that organization, especially since they're the ones who YOU KNOW, RELOCATED IT TO THAT SMALLER MARKET

young, flashy, high-flying superstar trio. that shit prints money if they win.

nm

They showed what mattered most to the organization: money. They had the chance for a potential dynasty and they blew it.

>They had the chance for a potential dynasty and they blew it.

harden isnt a leader, he was the 3rd best option on a deep squad, who crashed & burned on the big stage. 60M & all that for him? not feeling it.

thats starting center money. thats what we need. inside presence.

i cant really see this teams personality. mchale is a downgrade from adelman why we let him go ill never understand. morey has let his press go to his head & overbought. i dont believe this makes the team more competitive in the West.

With the moves this team is making he doesn't fit as the coach.they hired him last yr with a much different team though.

I don't think he is going to produce the way he did in OKC, now he's the main focus on the opponents D, he won't do as good as people think

centers are not easy to find. they did decently here IMO, a deal that worked with both teams' talent and salary situations.

do or die

you just couldnt get near this kind of return in a big man.

Asik is better, younger and ALREADY ON THE TEAM

EDIT: DID YOU SERIOUSLY SUGGEST THAT THE ROX SHOULD HAVE TRADED FOR PERKINS INSTEAD OF HARDEN. WTF

what i was saying is that if you were offering this package to a team, perkins would be the level of player you'd get if you sought a big. it was a lame hypothetical, no a real suggestion, and nowhere did i say they "should" do it, rather it was why they should NOT have been shopping for a center as old bin suggested.

you're overstimulated, it's OK.

great trade for lakers and spurs lol

Why didn't they wait til next year to trade him? You had a team that made it to finals and you don't want to give it one more go? Smh if I am a Thunders fan.

We won't know who wins this trade after a couple more seasons.

like 2-3 years from now.. Shit changes fast in the NBA...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

value probably wasn't going to get any higher, it could have gotten worse though

you're a kobe fan responding to a duncan fan.

You have 2 all stars and a good supporting cast, you have a chance to win a title every year. Plus you don't want a guy who thinks he's the man on a team with the 2nd best player in basketball(if that's the case, which some have hinted at).

OKC & Chicago just emerged... A few other teams could be a few players away from contention... This is all in the span of like 5 years..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

cuz BOTH teams could easily be lottery-bound.

if even one pick is unprotected, this is a HUGE win for okc. even though lamb is some shit.

oh well, toronto will be right in that 5-12 range anyway... this trade all depends on how those picks pan out.

It's been pretty amazing to watch Harden go from underrated to overrated to underrated to overrated to underrated by the public in the span of maybe eight months.

I got too caught up in the play of one Finals. It's easy to forget when you watch guys so young play together in the limelight so often just how young they are and how much room they still have to grow. Every time I see Russy's age, I'm blown away.

So yeah. I cop to previous idiotic statements post-Finals, though I think I backed off of them pretty quickly once various trade rumors started floating out there, as none of them truly effectively replaced Harden, Finals performance be damned.

And yeah... while I love Jeremy Lamb, he's not a replacement for Harden and what he brings to the table. Great move for Houston, at least on the surface. Hardee's a big upgrade from Martin.

nm

Harden Being Greeted
http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/201...005MOV-2262951
Interview w/ James Harden
http://www.nba.com/rockets/video/201...006MOV-2262949

we'll see what happens with that.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8564589/james-harden-expects-sign-long-term-deal-houston-rockets


"It happened so fast, it happened very fast," Harden said. "But this is the position I'm in in now. Just have to make the best out of it. I'm with Houston now. I just have to come in here and play hard and win games."

Thunder general manager Sam Presti said Houston was able to offer Harden a contract that Oklahoma City could not.

"Quite honestly, the value of the trade was greater based on the fact that the Rockets could offer him the contract that he was seeking," Presti said. "By doing it when we did it, it allowed the Rockets to secure -- or I believe it will allow the Rockets to secure him and James will get the contract that he was seeking. And because of that, we were able to capitalize on the trade and probably get a little bit more than we would have if we would have waited."

The Rockets nabbed Harden on the night before holding a public practice at the Toyota Center. An hour before the practice started, fans peered into the shaded, street-level glass windows to catch a glimpse of the new arrival on the Rockets' practice court.

The 23-year-old Harden says he'll have to adjust to a rebuilding team after playing for a contender in Oklahoma City.

"I would love to Thank Oklahoma City for 3 amazing years!" Harden tweeted Sunday. "Teammates and Fans were thee best. The love will always be there. Thanks Again."

The acquisition of Harden completes an offseason overhaul for the Rockets, who've missed the playoffs the last three seasons. Houston cut or traded every veteran player, including point guard Kyle Lowry, backup Goran Dragic, shooting guard Courtney Lee and popular forward Luis Scola.

The Thunder, meanwhile, are one of the favorites to win the Western Conference after losing to Miami in last year's NBA Finals.

"This is definitely different," Harden said. "But it's something that we have to learn to deal with. This is a business and everything happens for a reason. I'm going to just to play hard, try to play hard and do whatever it takes to win."


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

were actively working with the rockets (on the low) while they negotiated with Harden and his agent over the last couple of days

nm

harden has to be looking at the situation like he got dicked
is there a reason why ibaka was negotiated with FIRST?
i'm wondering if signing harden was that big a priority for them or if they were just stalling until a GM contacted them with a package they liked

but with the season approaching they couldnt wait any more without having to deal with the "will they, wont they?" bs

of being the#3 guy and wants to be a #1. You can never underestimate how big these dudes egos are.

Yea it's obvious it was about the money. If OKC would have given him the max he would have been more than happy to be #3.

lottery team over $6mil? I doubt it

The way it was reported last night is that the extra year Houston can offer him means he'll make 20 million more I believe. It was about the money.

Funny how everyone wants to act like a couple million ain't shit when he coulda gotten 54. Any of y'all ever had a54 million contract and 6 million to turn down?

All this talk about athlets going broke yet people hitting on them getting money.

Let that shit cook.

Aside from the extra year--the taxes--or lack of them = a lot more money.

> Any of y'all ever had a54
>million contract and 6 million to turn down?
>

no but i'd take 54 and a chance to win it all every year > 60 and lottery team every year

i want ALLLL da money, dont leave a penny in potential income on the table

$54 mil and $60mil, it could be 100% percent about the money but I think being the man on his own team instead of playing 3rd fiddle to ZD and Russ was a factor also.

Then again it could be a case like Ariza where the agent had Harden thinking OKC would blink and they didnt.

why is it about harden being greedy here? it was OKC that decided they weren't willing to give him market value. the absurdly wealthy owners of an NBA team decided that they would rather rip apart an incredible nucleus than pay luxury tax.

and as i said in another post, they MOVED THE FRIGGING TEAM to that small market.

I think OKC will come out better in the long run.

harden is an individual. they're a company worth hundreds of millions of dollars. even if you're in the romney camp that "corporations are individuals," you've been all over this post talking about how harden "walked away" for $6M. dog, he was traded.

anyway, it's a poor trade for OKC. harden's emergence coincided with their rise to the finals, and they let their second-best player go for an ensemble that won't make them better in a season when they had a legitimate shot at a chip. i'm skeptical they have a chance of getting out of the west now. and cole aldrich might end up a decent bench contributor, too.

maintain flexibility to sign pieces to put around those guys, people are not going to take the minimum to go to Oklahoma City like they do in Miami.

is harden worth double that?
he's more efficient but might actually be worse defensively
54 mil was a fair offer

he was a top-five offensive player in the NBA last year and 24 years old. you're suggesting he should be paid less than eric gordon and roy hibbert? like, really?

how many minutes are you sorting by? lol
he won the 6th man of the year award and he's good in that role
but 6th men don't get max contracts
is he going put up 20 7 and 7 now with 10 more minutes a night?
he was already getting over 30 minutes and his production wasn't THAT much better than lou williams who was getting less minutes than him and shot a worse %

(and eric gordon had higher USG% getting similar minutes in the couple games he played since you just throwing random names out there)

8th in free throws
12th in threes
2nd in TS%
2nd in EFG%
3rd in offensive rating
3rd in offensive win shares
6th in WS
4th in WS/48

he's an absolute beast on offense. even if his efficiency dips due to more usage and being the focus of defenses, he'll still be really, really good. his defense is suspect though.

>8th in free throws
>12th in threes
>2nd in TS%
>2nd in EFG%
>3rd in offensive rating
>3rd in offensive win shares
>6th in WS
>4th in WS/48
>
>he's an absolute beast on offense. even if his efficiency dips
>due to more usage and being the focus of defenses, he'll still
>be really, really good. his defense is suspect though.


so basically none of this will be relevant this year when he goes back to shooting 44% from the floor?
k
surely you don't think he'll shoot almost 50% from the 2 and 40% from three this year.....cause that's basically what ALL those offensive numbers hinged on
and lol @ listing redundant stats (ts/efg) and "offensive rating"
players with offensive rating higher than lebron: tyson chandler, mike dunleavy, ryan anderson, deandre jordan

it's blindingly obvious that he was among the best offensive players in the league last year. it's not debatable. here are the guards who were in the top 20 in WS last season.

(2) chris paul
(6) james harden
(13) westbrook
(16) wade

THAT'S IT.

I thought that was part of the whole story about why Morey made the move for Kevin Martin in the first place, because his advanced efficiency #s were quietly some of the best in the NBA.

couldn't this just be another instance where advanced metrics show a value in a player that might be overstated when that player is really given the reins to a team?

kevin martin was a highly effective scorer two years ago in houston (TS% of .60). he slumped last year, for whatever reason. but there's no truth to this "given the reigns" notion, considering martin was never supposed to be anything besides an efficient perimeter scorer.

he's the third option & plays a lot against second units.

I'll wait to see what he does where he has to carry the load before I start calling him one of the league's best offensive players (or even better than Westbrook).

could be if given the opportunity

like, he said he HOPES the Rockets can give Harden what he wants

that might be genuine love, since Presti drafted him and wants him to do well

but at the same time, seems fishy


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

harden potentially gives the rox a star, which is what you really need to attract top talent in free agency. he was on the olympic team and played with upcoming FAgents like iggy and CP3. they're going to be a young team contending for a low playoff seed with the ability to sign a max player in the offseason. they have the ability to become a tough team quickly.

only have room to add ONE more max player. Do you really think Chris Paul is going there to play with Hardin and Omer Asik? Nobody is trading for that Lin contract so don't even bother bringing that up, lol

and that's best case scenario
most likely the rockets will just be a mediocre team that falls anywhere from 7th to 10th in the conference and thinks losing the 1st round in 5 games is a good year

you sound like a fool, and you make me take the time to correct your clueless ass.

http://hoopshype.com/salaries/houston.htm

guys on the books for next year:

harden $15
lin $5.2
asik $5.2
white $1.7
jones $1.5

everyone else is a team option or expiring.

do i think they'll sign two max guys? no. but they have the chance to add a bunch of talent, whether by free agency or trade.

>everyone else is a team option or expiring.

team options are most likely getting picked up

the rest of the roster will probably be players on rookie contracts or shitball free agents on 1 or 2 yr deals so they should be aight lux tax wise
but they won't be good

> no. but they have the
>chance to add a bunch of talent, whether by free agency or
>trade.
>


who on the team right now ,outside of the "core", has trade value?
even if you combine parsons, jones, and white salaries aren't going be high enough to return anything significant
what hypothetical free agents are going take the MLE from houston over some other better team?
you talking about some cj watson type players or something? lol.

it has literally zero impact on the rox' ability to acquire players now or next season.

you understand good players usually get LONG contracts right
poison pill deals are still prohibitive

for pennies on the dollar because you now have TWO SUPERSTARS ON YOUR TEAM.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

one year expiring contract on a good player when you struck out in free agency and are choosing between that one overpriced year of Jeremy Lin or overpaying a mediocre free agent to use your money? and all the rockets want is 2nd round picks?

every contract is tradeable if you don't care about getting value back.

-----------
It's only funny till someone gets mad. Then it's hilarious.

but yea that's the only way it works is if you move one of those dudes
the possibility of that happening is kind of a reach to me though

rather than their actual salary
which hurts for 2 years but is great for leaving them a little more flexibility in year 3

I read another article yesterday morning that explained that Harden was told if they couldn't reach an agreement, he'd be traded. OKC just didn't want to waste time with it. Jeff Green was the reference point and if Ibaka and Wessy did it, Harden couldn't have expected to be more of a priority.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8563645/oklahoma-city-thunder-stay-true-their-philosophy-trading-james-harden

OKC Thunder stay true to themselvesWhat were the Thunder thinking by trading James Harden? Here's some insight.

The Oklahoma City Thunder have achieved a remarkable amount of success by establishing and sticking to a few central beliefs. It was that fidelity to those principles that led them to trade James Harden because of a contractual dispute.

According to sources with knowledge of the team's thinking, the Thunder believe their players will ultimately support the controversial decision to send Harden to the Houston Rockets in a blockbuster deal that breaks up the core that reached the NBA Finals last season.

The Thunder maintain a philosophy that the individual sacrifices for the whole. In this case, that would have meant Harden agreeing to accept less than the maximum amount for a four-year extension, which was $60 million. Reportedly the Thunder's final offer was in the range of $55 million for four years.

Over the past few days, as extension talks reached a climax ahead of the Oct. 31 deadline, sources said, Thunder GM Sam Presti informed Harden that if he was not willing to accept a franchise-favorable contract, such as the kind that Serge Ibaka accepted recently, after other Thunder players had done likewise, then Harden would be traded. This was made clear in discussions with Harden and his agent Rob Pelinka, sources said.

During the contract talks that have been ongoing since July, Presti provided a reference point -- some might call it a threat ... regarding the discussions: the Jeff Green negotiations from a couple of seasons ago. That's when the Thunder were unable to get a contract extension done with the popular forward and traded him, in a surprising move, to get assets and prevent Green from getting to free agency the following summer. Harden would've been headed for the same situation if he had not agreed to an extension by Wednesday.

The Thunder, it was said during the talks, cannot afford to let players get to free agency, with the additional cost and risk involved. From the player's perspective, this is rigid. From Presti's perspective, it was the way to do business in a franchise with more limited resources than rivals and in a market where free agents are often overpaid.

Presti was attempting to force through a contract that would help soften the blow of the increased luxury tax that starts in the 2013-14 season, when Harden's new deal would've kicked in.

Over the past several years Ibaka, Russell Westbrook, and Nick Collison have structured new contracts in ways that would ease the Thunder's coming tax burden. In each case, the player accepted a deal for less than his estimated market value had he waited for free agency. Collectively these moves are saving the Thunder millions in salary and potentially tens of millions when accounting for future tax payments. That money, in theory, is used to sign their talented teammates.

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In addition Kevin Durant and Kendrick Perkins signed extensions without the "opt-out" clauses seen in many contracts.

All five players bypassed free agency. This, Presti apparently sold to the players, would help the Thunder remain to remain contenders for the foreseeable future.

The Thunder hoped, and obviously expected, that Harden would follow suit. On the court, he had been willing to accept a sixth-man role for the good of the team, and both parties benefited. Harden was named Sixth Man of the Year and the Thunder reached the NBA Finals last season.

In the end, sources said, the Thunder had to make a decision based on risk: not just the financial and basketball risk that came with allowing Harden to become a free agent, but also the risk of deviating from their philosophy, and what that would mean for the players who had been willing to follow it in the past.

What Presti and Harden decided is clear. Less clear are the consequences on the court.

especially when you're as close as they were. There's no way this helps OKC in the short term, especially when you're considering how close they were to winning it all last year.

shit in the Finals but they're suppose to turn around and throw a max contract at him just because?

they didn't get a similar talent back but they were not really maximizing his ability anyway. they got guys who can pitch in and fill the role for less money plus they get deeper and diversified assets. they are still "close," IMO they should still be considered favorites in the West with all due respect to the Lakers, Spurs, whomever.

meanwhile harden has gone from a clear contender to an oddly shaped squad with nothing clear about it.

there's always the chance that durant will go bananas and ibaka makes a leap to become an elite big, but they just lost their second-best player and the guy whose improvement pushed them into contender status.

lakers are the clear favorite at this point, and i'm no longer convinced OKC makes it by the spurs, denver or clippers. the west is too tough to be losing such a hugely important player.

>there's always the chance that durant will go bananas and
>ibaka makes a leap to become an elite big, but they just lost
>their second-best player and the guy whose improvement pushed
>them into contender status.
>
>lakers are the clear favorite at this point, and i'm no longer
>convinced OKC makes it by the spurs, denver or clippers. the
>west is too tough to be losing such a hugely important
>player.

i think it was a toss up between them and LAL. at any rate, it's not anymore.

or Kobe chucking that could keep the Lakers out of the finals from where I sit & I thought all three could be minimized enough that they'd overcome it as long as they were *relatively* healthy come playoff time.

join this marvelous anti-melo agenda while watching steve nash attempt to guard ty lawson and kobe flinging up garbage against iggy.

Presti's no fool -- he sold as high as possible on his Harden asset, cuz he knows in the long run Harden's performance will help alleviate his regrets.

HAVE to be suspicious of a guy that showed his first extended run of NBA quality basketball (note: NOT quality NBA basketball -- last year was actually the first time he finally confirmed himself as an NBA player, much less an NBA star) in his contract year, then disappears on the big stage much, much to his team's detriment, then quibbles over a few million spread out over years instead of just re-upping at his actual value.

so Presti struck while the iron is hot and it kills me to admit, but the OKC front office is the smartest in the NBA right now.

The super well read kid in class who knows a lot of facts but is on the autism spectrum.

Why did you leave again Cel? I'm guessing you had to have stepped down and out... We didn't vote you out.

He knew the hubie was the only division he'd have a chance in.

it's not BS when I say on here that I was watching 80-100 regular season NBA games a year. I had actual ideas about bench units across the league then (for better or worse).

but I stopped doing that, maybe watched 10 games, if that, last year, so I left my spot for the next wonk that deserves it.

I didn't like him for the first year and a half when that was easy to do, and I still didn't like him when all he was doing was torching bench units during the year when teams didn't even practice.

and he's not going to be as effective in Houston without Durant + Westbrook et. al. to protect him. if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but the worst thing that can happen to that kid right now is getting paid, because he won't be as good a bball player after it happens (or when he's a starter and not a bench star).

asd is not a joke


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<---- 5....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dlgiritpmfo

=======================================
Occupy Big Government..

Fannie, Freddie dole out big bonuses
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1011/67292.html

As opposed to shrinking back in a big moment or being exposed, or whatever other tired cliche gets thrown out there.

Dude had a bad series, it doesnet take away from what he did in 80+ other games last season.

admittedly, anything out of one Finals is making a mountain out of a mole hill (just like Lebron the year before, who learned his lesson and moved on).

the main reason I distrust his performance last year is cuz it was bench units who weren't practicing due to the condensed schedule. things won't be so easy when he's a starter in Houston playing against teams properly prepped for him. this year will tell us more about Harden the player than anything that happened to him in OKC.

Practicing??

And what about the 4th qtr when he was getting to the line at will?

Bench units?

Cmon I expect better celery, even from you.

because that's what we're talking about when we're talking about the contract he's about to get from the Rockets. this isn't just "is James Harden a good player?" this is "is James Harden a star to build a whole team around?" because if you're giving out the longest term possible MAX deal, that's what you're talking about.

now what OKC offered him? that was "good player" money, as it should be -- smart on their part. they looked at what they knew about James Harden and said "we'll pay you like a good player, cuz you are, but not necessarily give you the keys to the gym." but Harden turned that down, and the Rockets appeared as the new suitor.

so yeah, I'm sure Harden will continue to be a good player. but if the Rockets think he's going to be anything more than a upper-middle class man's Danilo Gallinari, I think they're in for a a long 5 yrs and $80M or whatever it is.

this might be the craziest argument i've heard. he played 30 minutes a game and was always on the floor in the fourth quarter. he was fantastic for the playoffs until running into bron/wade.

i'm not convinced he's going to be a superstar, but i'm arguing that his numbers from last year say that he was one last season.

>i'm not convinced he's going to be a superstar, but i'm
>arguing that his numbers from last year say that he was one
>last season.

and that's fine. I actually wouldn't argue with that.

but that's why I said he'd get "exposed" in Houston, because his superstar #s that you like are drawn almost exclusively from last season, and I just pointed out entirely valid reasons why they might be bad stats.

so let him replicate that trick again this year and I'll eat my crow, but my own personal eye test tells me Harden will struggle more in Houston than he and Daryl Morey might think right now.

the reason they had such a dominant offense was because they shot tons of FTs and made quite of few threes. that's precisely what harden does. they most certainly were not a great offensive team because of westbrook's shitty FG% and turnovers.

Kevin Martin should make life easier for Westbrook and Durant by being a one of the best NBA knockdown shooters from any spot on the floor outside the key, which OKC hasn't had, and if need be Martin can help the 2nd unit offense by running off screens to get the defense moving and hopefully still open up gaps for the other four guys on the floor. no more collapsing to the key on Westbrook if it means giving Martin the space to hurt you.

but besides that, yes, they sacrifice bench unit offense, but considering today's NBA where title favorites are currently Lakers and Heat, two teams with "passable" bench units at best, perhaps the bench production loss is a bit overstated. as long as they have enough pros willing to maintain the score, not necessarily grow it, I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect the OKC starting unit to still be able to win games without the bench making runs for them.

and with their athletes, there's still no reason to think they couldn't just reinvent the bench unit as a defensive nightmare -- with guys like Sefalosha, Ibaka, Collison, Perkins -- that just frustrates other teams while Russy + KD get their rest.

and Jeremy Lamb might not suck, who knows.

either way, I just don't see this as a massive downgrade for OKC and the void that Harden leaves is being massively overstated. he had a redundant skill set and was potentially an unsettling presence with the schism between his goals and the organization's utilization of him.

OKC can still compete for a title even with his departure and anyone saying otherwise is either overvaluing Harden, undervaluing Martin, misunderstanding the importance of the bench in the current NBA, or all three of those things imo.

You probably should evacuate, bitch.

not to be Laker centric, but I think Dwight going to LA played some part in this deal. before that, the talk was that perkins was getting amnestied & harden was getting his deal. he deserved it contextually considering what he brought to the table & how much ibaka got. but with d12 in the west, they dont seem to quick to just let perkins walk.


they're no longer definitely the #1 squad in the west. can't say they're behind anyone until we see how both LA squads start, denver, etc. & for all we know OKC could be just as good. but they're not a lock.


interesting to see what happens to OKC in the next 2years. if lamb & PJ3 turn out to live up to their potential, especially quickly how kd/russ/ibaka/harden became quality guys, they could have a great young lineup.

If Toronto's pick turns out to be high, they could score a swingman. so in 2 years they could be starting PJ3/KD/Lamb/top 10 pick/Russ.

130 cst

Lol at this commentary fom clutch


http://watch.nba.com/nba/video/chann...op10.nba?tab=1

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonatasFanboy
haha. a bunch of uncontested jumpers in first halves. they forgot to highlight his free throws.
hahaha...so the highlight reel is more like :

#10-#5: uncontested jump shots
#4: Free throws
#3: Flopping
#2: Drawing the foul by leaning into the defender

and the Number 1 K-Martin Highlight is.....:

#1: that one game where he played above average defense

Harden was bitching about minutes and getting his after the game win 1?
to the point vets had to take him aside and holla at him?
maybe it ain't about the money.....
and i didn't know kevin martin avg. over 23 pts a game 2 seasons ago under Adelmans system
kinda interesting to see certain ppl on here spinning like dude is a complete bum that can't come off the bench and give scoring given the minutes
harden had the better season last yr obviously, but mostly due to efficiency
how much of that is playing on a finals team vs. playing on a shitty lotto team under mchales system?
we shall see lol
their career shooting % is only separated by like .001


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--inside-look-at-james-harden-s-trade-to-rockets-28301609.html

For months, Houston Rockets general manager Daryl Morey called on Oklahoma City's Sam Presti, probing him with a simple question: Want to discuss a deal for James Harden yet? Over and over, the response had been an unwavering no. The Thunder wanted to sign Harden to a contract extension, hold together their young core and try to win championships for years and years.

Finally, there had come a call within the past several days to Morey: Presti wanted to seriously discuss the framework of a trade, because if Harden wouldn't take the Thunder's final offer, this promised to be the next step. From owner Clay Bennett to Presti and assistant GM Troy Weaver, a decision had been made: James Harden had played his final game for the Thunder.

After turning down a $52 million extension several days ago, Harden's agent, Rob Pelinka, flew from Los Angeles to Oklahoma City on Friday for a final sit-down with Presti. He wanted a max contract of four years, $60 million for his client, and had come to Oklahoma City to push management as far as it would go on an offer.

Before sitting down a final time with Pelinka, Presti became more serious in his discussions with Morey. Houston wanted Harden badly, believed he would evolve into a transcendent franchise star for a championship-caliber team and planned to award him a five-year maximum contract worth nearly $80 million. So, Presti laid out what he wanted for Harden and the original price was steep: Kevin Martin, Chandler Parsons, Jeremy Lamb and three first-round picks, including Houston's own in 2013.

Across 72 hours and culminating on Friday night, the deal became this: Martin, Lamb and two first-round picks, including a guaranteed plumb lottery pick via Toronto. Before Presti sat down with Pelinka on Saturday morning to make his final offer of $54 million over four years, the Rockets were made to understand: If Harden turns it down, your long-awaited star is on his way to Texas.



In those finals hours on Saturday, the NBA made clear to Oklahoma City and Houston: Under no circumstances could Morey and Pelinka discuss a potential contract extension. Nevertheless, it was understood Morey would never let Wednesday's deadline pass without giving Harden the five-year max extension that wasn't available in Oklahoma City.

All along, Pelinka and Harden understood: From the Rockets, to the Phoenix Suns, to the Dallas Mavericks, there was a maximum contract offer awaiting him in free agency. Harden's market value wouldn't be dictated on the fact the Thunder planned to pay him as the franchise's third-best player. Less money and a sixth-man role – after a summer with Team USA at the Olympics, this was an impossible sell on Harden.

Harden was part of OKC's talented core that included Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook. (Getty Images)The impact on the Thunder locker room won't have the dark fallout some fear. When word reached Russell Westbrook late on Friday, he was disappointed Harden was gone – loved him as person, a teammate – but he wasn't devastated over the deal. Privately, Westbrook loved how Presti had strengthened the back of the Thunder roster with two rookies, Perry Jones and Lamb. He always admired how Martin had scored on the Thunder.

Center Kendrick Perkins also had privately told people he believed a trade was inevitable, too. To a man, none of the key Thunder players were surprised this happened, and none are conceding championship aspirations. In some ways, they can all breathe out now: This is the team, and now they go forward.

If nothing else, Westbrook and Kevin Durant have long learned to trust the judgment of Presti and Weaver. When the Thunder couldn't get an extension done with Jeff Green, they turned him into a piece the franchise desperately needed: Perkins. Everyone in the organization privately knew this, too: Harden wouldn't have thrived with the uncertainty and questions that would come with him unsigned past Wednesday, with him headed to the Feb. 21 trade deadline and, ultimately, restricted free agency on July 1.



Harden struggled in the NBA Finals, tried too hard and slowly, surely unraveled over the course of the series. When the rest of the Thunder were celebrating a Game 1 victory over Miami in the locker room, Harden could be heard grumbling over too few shots (five), and too few minutes (22).

Veterans Derek Fisher and Perkins laid into Harden, telling him essentially: We just won an NBA Finals game and the last thing in the world that ought to worry you are your individual statistics. Harden apologized, but it was clear his mindset wasn't right. He never found his way back into a proper rhythm in the Finals.

Rookie guard Jeremy Lamb gives the Thunder another talented young player to work into their rotation. (AP)This isn't an indictment of Harden. He cares deeply, but it is hard to be 23 years old and needing to prove yourself worthy of the salary that will come with stardom. There's a popular argument that Harden isn't worth max money, because he played so poorly in the Finals. He was magnificent for the Thunder a year ago, regular season through the Western Conference finals victory over San Antonio. If he ever gets there again, he'll probably play better.

The Rockets don't need Harden to play well in the Finals this year, or next, because they won't be there. They'll now feature an offense around Harden and believe he'll blossom into an annual All-Star, an all-league player.

Oklahoma City's front office was melancholy on Saturday night. They had drafted this core, developed it and hoped they could keep it together for years and years. Ownership might have gone further with its final offer of $54 million, but Presti drew the line on how much he was willing to invest into Harden and ended the talks there. The NBA's new collective bargaining agreement delivers devastating luxury-tax penalties to teams over the cap – $1.50 for every dollar over the tax threshold – and Presti simply couldn't justify the cost. This wouldn't go until Wednesday night's deadline, Presti informed Pelinka. That's the final offer, and his next call would be to Houston to tell Morey: Let's reach out to the league office and get a trade call to make this official.



In the end, Presti would secure a player to score off his bench this year (Martin), a gifted prospect for the future (Lamb) and a lottery pick that could give the Thunder a chance to draft another elite talent. Giving the Thunder another protected first-round pick from Dallas was more than Houston wanted to do, but the Rockets weren't willing to let Presti get on the phone and find a better deal. Morey believes Jeremy Lin and Harden will be stars in the NBA, and he's gambling his own – and his franchise's – future on it.

From Sam Presti to Daryl Morey to James Harden, everyone ran his share of risk in this scenario and it all tumbled into motion in these final, frenzied 48 hours. This is the kind of deal that changes careers, changes franchises, and everyone breathed out on Saturday and understood: No turning back now.

Of course things change in 3 years... but I wouldn't quite paint this as some sort of ego trip.

He's got the talent to be The Man but he was cool being 3rd banana... but he ain't willing to take 3rd banana money so he was prolly like "Fuck It", I'll be the man. lol

It's going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7982195/the-many-faces-oklahoma-city-thunder-guard-james-harden

....
In less than three years, he has become exactly the player the Thunder hoped he would be when they drafted him third overall in 2009. When general manager Sam Presti scouted Harden in college, he was impressed by the way Harden carried his Arizona State teams, but he was even more interested in the personality trait that made Harden reluctant to do so. "It was clear that he didn't always need the ball," Presti says. "He could be effective with or without it. He wouldn't be shouldering everything the way players picked that high are sometimes asked to. He would score but also make plays for other people and find ways to impact the game in other ways."

In high school and college, Harden had accepted the leading role — but only grudgingly. "Coming up, he was always the best player," says Glasser, who played with him at Artesia and Arizona State. "But he never played like he was the best player." Intensely competitive but eager to please, Harden only grew assertive when he realized that everyone — teammates especially — wanted him to. "Sometimes we would all just look at him, and it was kind of like, OK, let's go, buddy! We want to win, so we need you to take over!" Glasser remembers. "Whether he wanted to or not, he had to accept the fact that when the game was on the line, it was up to him. That just comes with the territory."

It's not that Harden was unwilling to dominate, but he was a reactive player who countered opponents rather than imposing his will on them. "James is like a martial artist," Arizona State coach Herb Sendek says. "He uses the force of the game against itself. He doesn't play with predetermined conclusions." On the first game of a northwest road trip his sophomore year at ASU, Harden dropped 36 points on 21 shots in a win over Oregon. Two nights later, against an Oregon State team that trapped and double-teamed him all night, he played the decoy role, and the Sun Devils won again. "After that game," Sendek says, "he was celebrating just as much as anyone. It didn't matter that he had barely scored."1

Though Harden was slotted near the top of most draft boards, Presti's decision to pick him over Tyreke Evans, Ricky Rubio, and Stephen Curry was largely based on fit. Shortly before the draft, Harden sent Presti an e-mail explaining why he thought he belonged in Oklahoma City. "He made it clear that he understood the ethos of the organization," Presti says. "He understood the dynamic of our team, that it wasn't going to be a typical situation for someone drafted that high. Instead of being worried about it, he was motivated by it."2

Yes, Harden wanted to win. Yes, he wanted the chance to play alongside Durant and Westbrook, both of whom he had met and grown friendly with on the AAU circuit. And yes, he liked the culture of the franchise. But as much as anything, he wanted validation of his ability.

"The bottom line in that situation is that he's 19 years old and he's about to be a lottery pick," Pera says, "and he wants to go as high as he can go. He was happy to go no. 3, but if he could have gone no. 2 or no. 1 — even better."3

The Thunder have been fetishized as selfless and pure, all sacrificing their own glory for the sake of the team. And that narrative rings largely true. But we can dispense with the notion that any great player — Harden in particular — is bereft of individual ambition.

"It's about winning first," Harden says at the gym in Santa Monica, "but I want to be an All-Star, All-NBA, get individual awards. I know all that takes hard work and dedication, but yeah, I want that. Of course I do."


....

even passes messages to wrong teamates

ClutchFans.net ‏@clutchfans
This is great. @_ScottMachado on how @JLin7 called him after the trade to say 'sorry,' thinking he had called JLamb. http://bit.ly/XOAkVP
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28m ClutchFans.net ‏@clutchfans
Machado was panicking, thinking he had been cut.
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28m ClutchFans.net ‏@clutchfans
Machado said @JLin7 called him, thinking he had called Jeremy Lamb, and said 'sorry, man, everything is going to be ok'

http://youtu.be/3chfFkUgjlU

ffwd to 1 min mark

Amazing

that Harden wants to be the man....




This is the weekly chat with Joel Blank (color and studio analyst for the radio broadcast). I normally wouldn't post this type of thing, but I thought there was some really good info from him watching Harden at practice yesterday, interacting with his teammates and his role as a leader. As a Rockets fan, you have to be excited hearing some of the things he says.

Skip to 21:50 for the interview
http://www.sports790.com/player/?sta...l&mid=22581087

My attempt at a transcript:
Adam: James Harden, the basketball player, what are your thoughts on his first three years and now that he gets to be the #1 here?

Joel: Always impressed with how he had an all around game for such young player. And, being on a team as good as OKC, wasn't sure if he was a go to player. Everyone remembers in the Finals last year he really disappeared. So, that brought some questions. But I watched them practice yesterday, and I'm going to tell you right now he ratcheted the energy level up of practice about 10 times, he got on the guys right away, he was all over from an energy stand point he was saying, "Let's go, let's pay attention. I'm going to be here to pick up everything, I'll catch up. You guys do what you do". When the winning team he was on (in scrimmage) didn't have to run (afterwards), he ran with the losing team. he was focused, he picked everything up. And, when he got the ball, I mean, it was tough to stop him because he can take you off the dribble, he can knock down the three, he can hit the in-between shot. But the thing that impressed me the most, is the way he wants to defend. He wanted to get out and play every bit of defense he could play. It seems like this whole situation to him seems to be a dream come true in terms of being the go to guy.

Matt: This team was going to run, and run a bunch. Question what what were they going to do in the half-court. based on what you saw the rest of the team do, half-court wise, are they going to alter a lot because of what Harden can do that others can not or they asking Harden to run what they basically had before?

Joel: Tough to say after one practice if they'll put something in based on what he can or can't do. I do know this, he basically took to everything they were doing before he got there. I think the wrinkles they put in and what they're looking to do are similar in what they were going to do with Kevin Martin in that they'll run plays for him, isolation plays, plays where he can get the ball on the wing, and even yesterday in the press conference that he talked to coach and they'll call his number and plays. But, I think what he adds that Kevin Martin didn't quite have is a very physical ability to get the ball and go off the dribble, take a defender to the basket, take contact and finish. I saw yesterday several times, he got into the lane and he didn't care if it was Asik or his teammate from OKC, Cole Aldridge, it didn't matter who was in his way, they were going to face some pain when he started coming down on the rim. And that's just great to see, to see a kid who's 23 yrs. old that gets up in the air, takes the contact and finishes strong, I really believe that Houston is in for a treat because they've got a guy that can be the focal point of this team, that really is going to be able to do some things that will be fun to watch.

Adam: With him barking at teammates that way, taking on that leadership role and commanding attention... he's only 23, only been in the league three years, but do you think with the group that they have, so young, so inexperienced, especially as NBA players... he's been to the playoffs three years, he's been in the Finals, he;s been in the conference finals, does that automatically carry weight with young players who haven;t been there?

Joel: There's no question. I mean, if watch the guys' faces, they were excited but they were taken in to how much he was dialed in on practice number one. They all know he has more playoff experience than anyone. And, having 43-44 playoff games under his belt is a huge gold star. But, the fact he was there on day one and really getting everyone fired up, and joining the team and not making it all about him but about team, seemed to get everyone else excited. They were all smiles, all energetic, and all realize that this guy fits right in and, unlike Kevin Martin who was a veteran who was probably going to move on after this year in his last year with the Rockets, you have a guy (Harden) who is excited about building with this franchise and growing with these young guys. Craig (Ackerman) and I talked about it, it's even energized us because this kid brings so much to the table, it's going to be fun to see every game that he plays.

They also talked about Lin's role playing off the ball more now and how the second unit will look, especially now with Aldrich and Cook on the roster. I just didn't think it was relevant enough to type it all out.

& hes got flowers.

& hes got candy

& he's been writing me love notes & saying the right shit

& i KNOW hes wrong for me & im trying to heal but...

*sigh*


do or die

houston savaged okc on that deal. a 24-year old star (now locked in for 6 years) for an expiring contract, a moderately promising rookie, a protected lottery pick and likely a late first-rounder. plus aldrich might be a player.

I mean we traded for him at this point there was no use haggling over a coupel million. We had to go all in. The few extra million wouldnt have helped us sign anyone else that we cant next summer anyways.



Whats funny with NBA contracts is theres no middle ground.

Guys either get $10 mil a year or $3 million.

You always have the one random guy like Spencer Hawes who prolly coulda gotten 10, but then takes some random amount like 6.75 mil.

he gets $8 mil more over the original 4 yr extension
plus another 16 in the 5th
plus about another 2mil a yr savings with Texas income tax situation.....
fuck a title. he would have been an idiot to take that Thunder offer

5/80 > anything the thunder offered.

This is a business folks.
----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

YEAH, SONS OF BITCHES, COME GET THEM LS. SPM, I SEE YOU!

Let it marinate. This isn't a trade you can look at right now and say it was a failure. Gotta see how OKC does developing Lamb and Perry Jones and what they do with these draft picks.

Harden is pushing to be the best shooting guard in the league.

Harden wouldn't have had the same opportunities in OKC if it was still Russ and Durant. And without Ibaka, I'm not sure OKC fares all that much better against Gasol, Z-Bo and the Grizz.

>Harden wouldn't have had the same opportunities in OKC if it was still Russ and Durant.

>And without Ibaka, I'm not sure OKC
>fares all that much better against Gasol, Z-Bo and the Grizz.

but the point, as always, is that they could have kept ALL OF THEM. billionaire owners are making $35M a year in profit and didn't want to pay lux tax. fuck them.

Re-signing Harden could have eaten all of the profits of the team (and Clay's not a billionaire.) I'm not going to bash a dude who doesn't think one player, arguably the third best player on the team, is worth going from in the black to in the red.

no sympathy, ever. these are prestige properties. sell the team.

better for the next 5 years with Harden then without.

And, frustratingly, the teams that often are willing to spend money are run by guys who throw money away and end up with bloated contracts and mediocre teams.

Presti's big mistake was the Jeff Green for Perkins trade/Perkins re-signing. That screwed everything up.

Let it marinate. This isn't a trade you can look at right now and say it was a failure. Gotta see how OKC does developing Lamb and Perry Jones and what they do with these draft picks.

3 MVP candidates, on the other hand he only has one left.

It's hard not to think of what could've been.

Would James Harden have become the James Harden we know today playing with Russ and KD or did he need his own team?

I personally don't think there's any real blame on anyone.

If anything Presti failed by not convincing the owner to pay the tax and keep all three. But he couldn't have forseen that Harden would turn into an MVP candidate and might have been the player to keep instead of Durant or that Durant and Westbrook's relationship would turn sour enough to keep Durant from staying.

Zach Lowe talked about this on his podcast, but because of some loophole in the salary cap, Durant's contract was given a type of classification that took the Thunder into the tax. But after some digging, the Thunder found out that the NBA made a mistake and that Durant's contract was misinterpreted. By the time the error was found, Harden was traded.

I personally don't think there's any real blame on anyone.

If anything Presti failed by not convincing the owner to pay the tax and keep all three. But he couldn't have forseen that Harden would turn into an MVP candidate and might have been the player to keep instead of Durant or that Durant and Westbrook's relationship would turn sour enough to keep Durant from staying.

Zach Lowe talked about this on his podcast, but because of some loophole in the salary cap, Durant's contract was given a type of classification that took the Thunder into the tax. But after some digging, the Thunder found out that the NBA made a mistake and that Durant's contract was misinterpreted. By the time the error was found, Harden was traded.

three to coexist. So does that fall on Presti to then replace a successful coach, like PJ replacing Doug Collins in Chicago?