I'm watching the 2K release party stream from the 40/40 that's going on tonight, and they open it with a Rockets @ Nuggets clip. Definitely a lot of my hype is also wrapped up in the video game potential, but this squad is really looking like my favorite top to bottom lineup of the season.

PG: Lawson / Miller
SG: Iguodala/(Fournier/Corey Brewer)
SF: (Galinari/Chandler) / Iggy / Brewer
PF: Faried / Anthony Randolph
C: Mozgov / McGee / Koufos


They're not title contenders on paper, but this team is going to be fun as hell to watch, their only real weakness is depth at the 4, but they could go small with their speed and be a real fucking nuisance. If the stars align (the Lakers are one injury to Nash/Kobe/Howard at the wrong time away from being a low seed) for them they could go on a Pacers-like run and conceivably hit the conference finals.

...depending on how seeding shakes out. okc and lal are still too much. i expect one more move. masai been ballin' since the melo trade.

Masai's a free agent, btw.

48 wins or so, playoffs, with the right matchup maybe win a round, give a team a fight in the second, George Karl talking his usual bullshit and not winning.

but that squad is tough. a lineup of lawson/iggy/gallo/faried/mcgee will be insane on defense and in transition. they're an organization that knows what they're doing.

A for effort with this guy.

3 years removed from the OMG trade to the LAL

and they have back-to-back playoff appearances

took the LAC to 7 this year (1st round exit)

beat SAN the year before (2nd round, yay)

both improvements over what they did with Pau

DEN got to the WCF with Melo

hard to say they are better without him

should be a top five team this season.

Season...I say around mid 50s

On this board.

Ever.

Nearly all of their top players are game breakers: Gallinari, Dre Miller, Lawson, McGee, & Iguodala. Faried's ceiling is sky high, and Chandler is rock solid.

It's a shame what happened with Birdman, because he was a force just a few years back.

They don't really have any real weaknesses in their roster, except for the fact that they don't have a legitimate All-NBA leader, but how many of those guys exist in the league anyway?

>Nearly all of their top players are game breakers:
>Gallinari, Dre Miller, Lawson, McGee, & Iguodala. Faried's
>ceiling is sky high, and Chandler is rock solid.
>
solid, deep, sure......scary? no.

>They don't really have any real weaknesses in their roster,
>except for the fact that they don't have a legitimate All-NBA
>leader,
oh, that's it?

>but how many of those guys exist in the league
>anyway?
enough that one or a few together will fuck up the Denver Nuggets in a playoff series.

>>Nearly all of their top players are game breakers:
>>Gallinari, Dre Miller, Lawson, McGee, & Iguodala. Faried's
>>ceiling is sky high, and Chandler is rock solid.
>>
>solid, deep, sure......scary? no.

Scary to who? You are saying that teams would love to play Denver? As opposed to who? OKC? The Lakers? The Spurs? Dirk and the Mavericks? They almost advanced last year, and they should be better this year.

They've done a great job assembling their roster. Do you disagree?

>>They don't really have any real weaknesses in their roster,
>>except for the fact that they don't have a legitimate
>All-NBA
>>leader,

>oh, that's it?

Last I checked Dwayne Wade and Kobe Bryant and Steve Nash and Kevin Garnett and others have failed to lead their team to the playoffs in the past.

>>but how many of those guys exist in the league
>>anyway?
>enough that one or a few together will fuck up the Denver
>Nuggets in a playoff series.

So by your estimation, how many teams actually have a chance?

denver had the 11th best record in the nba last season. they had the top scoring offense with the third-best rating and the fastest pace. defense was ranked 20th. their "expected" record, based on those numbers, would have been 9th in the nba.

chandler and gallo missed much of last season, mcgee was a late addition, and guys like lawson and mozgov are coming into their prime. faried is a baller and fournier could be another late-round contributor. then you add in iggy, the second-best perimeter defender in the NBA and a dynamic uptempo player.

it's not mind-boggling to suggest that a good young team who added impact players on defense will win five more games than last year (if we project last season's winning percentage over an 82 game season). shit, they were three games away from having the fifth-best record last season, although there was a logjam of teams in that range.

as far as denver being a contender? i don't think anyone is beating the heat. but denver, to me, is only slightly less likely to come out of the west than LAL or OKC. and i could see them giving the lakers all kinds of trouble, as they did last year. LOL @ nash and kobe trying to check lawson and iggy in transition.

Javale mcgee is a game breaker??

Of course he's wildly inconsistent, but he and Dre took over that game. (Was it Game 5?)

A deep team does not need to rely on Javale McGee dominating every single night, or in every single quarter or half.

remember 'that game' they took over the 4th qtr in the finals?

...take over a game. I do think that on a deep team without scoring punch off the bench, Nate Robinson could indeed be a game breaker.

This shit was impressive, you must agree.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp4JzOmOGSo

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=300610002

nm

but otherwise, yes, the Nuggets did very well for themselves when they moved Carmelo.

re-signing Chandler so that was moot. It was basically gallo and lolmozgovlol for Melo an obvious win for the knicks. The bad part for the knicks was that melo got the old max deal. Possibly there was a better deal that could have been had if Dolan didn't involve himself but just looking at the moving pieces it was a good trade for ny.

and I don't say that to be dismissive, I just say it to say I know it's a topic we've chopped up on here before.

my only point really is that as good as Denver did, if they were negotiating against a stronger counter-party in the Melo deal, they probably would have come away with less. they got the best deal possible because they made it with one of the weakest players in the roster management game.

it hasn't ended the franchise or anything and Melo in NYC might still work, just pointing out what a stooge Dolan was in those negotiations which definitely helped Denver imo.

>Possibly there was a better deal that could have been had if Dolan didn't involve himself but just looking at the moving pieces it was a good trade for ny.

just pointing out that whether the knicks could have made a better deal or not has no bearing on whether the trade improved the knicks or not.

hate to muddy up the sentiment with actual facts

but DEN with Carmelo was an above .600 team before he left

and the NYK weren't making the playoffs

so...

NO

was a pleasant suprise. Unless i'm thinking about someone else.

Lebron leaves Cleveland -- nightmare ensues
Pau leaves Memphis -- takes years and years for the team to recover while Pau hoists multiple championship trophies
Dwight leaves Orlando -- returns aren't in yet, but do you seriously expect them to be anywhere besides the basement?
Bosh leaves Toronto -- T Dot's long basketball nightmare continues unabated

I guess you could say Derron is another case where it evened out on both sides, but I kinda forget the particulars of what went on with Utah except they're stuck in the NBA middle class which many pundits now say is the worst place possible. NJ is a trainwreck but I think that's unrelated to Derron (and we'll have a more clear picture this year in Brooklyn)

so yeah, it's not the WORST TRADE EVER! but compared to what other teams got in return for an A-List departure, Denver did very well for themselves.

first of all

3 of your examples are FA departures, so I'm not sure how they are relevant

but you do know MEM was the dog of the league the last 2 years Pau was there

winning +20 something games

and yet they didn't get worse after he left

they had a couple of high water years with Pau

but he left during the 08' season

and MEM was a problem in the 11' offs

so I don't know where you get these years and years

they improved almost immediately after he left (they kind of treaded water the first year)

if I had to make a correlation to the Melo trade from the FA departures

it would be how imperative it is to trade that player instead of just letting him walk away

the teams that didn't trade their star have a lot harder road to rebuilding

than the teams that actually got something in return

kind of funny when you consider that Melo was telling the world he wanted to be traded for what seemed like forever

tryin to help you out

>kind of funny when you consider that Melo was telling the world he wanted to be traded for what seemed like forever

People fail to give Melo credit for letting denver know early that he wasn't going to re-sign with them as opposed to 12, lebron etc. basically waffling and making their plans a mystery. Denver was able to get the deal they did, in part, bc they knew that melo wanted out. They didn't make stupid short sighted trades in the hopes of getting melo to stay (cle, orl) or waste time considering their future with him.

and I was reading articles two years prior to their FA departure about the impending Decision, so don't try to sell me some bullshit about how their teams just had the rugs pulled out from under them when those two guys decided to leave.

Cleveland and Toronto had an opportunity to mitigate those losses, and they didn't do well with that opportunity.

Denver had the same opportunity and they did as well as could be expected. they didn't give up and ship Melo once the writing was on the wall, they held out until the trade deadline to get the best value. they found two teams to play against each other and used the deadline crunch to gain extra concessions from NYK. they were in a difficult position and played it as well as could be expected.

and shit, why not add the Shaq trade, which plunged LA into a basement team upon his departure as well. Pau's Memphis years were whatever, I'm really bored of watching Laker + Kobe stans try to rewrite history about what happened in that deal. the owner of the team came out the day after and said it was a bad deal and they could have done better, I don't know what else you want.

kind of a desperation move

all they got back were picks

and Bron+Bosh got extra $$$

still feels like FA signings to me

but if it makes you feel better, OKay

still not sure how it compares to Melo being traded for a roster

those franchises would have faired better making an actual trade

you know, during the season, for actual players

than waiting til' the end of the season and hoping the ball bounces in your favor

as illustrated in the Melo trade

Lebron we can cross off because Cleveland had little choice but to hope that he would re-up with them. shipping him before the summer and declining the option of playing on Bron's loyalty would be unacceptable for obvious reasons, so I understand that from their perspective. they got hosed, it clearly wasn't the best available way, in W-L terms, to resolve that, but it was their only real option there. I do get that.

but if you compare to Bosh in Toronto? what the HELL were they doing? and you compare to Dwight in Orlando? what IDIOTS that they didn't ride this out till the trade deadline! you really think the crap they got in return wouldn't still be available in some form or another in February?

and I guess I'm leaving out Chris Paul, but the special circumstances of that deal make it pretty difficult to offer in comparison to anything else in the history of the NBA. oh and I'm forgetting KG in part b/c I forget the particulars of that deal, but I can't recall a person in the world crowing that as a victory for Minnesota.

but yeah, the point is -- Denver was given a shitty hand, a shitty hand which is comparable to other recent NBA situations of note, and out of all those organizations they played the hand the best. which is why it's the "best start deal" of recent memory like the post says.

than one team wanted and they knew he didn't want to stay. What is so bad about that situation?

The only thing better is if Melo wanted to stay lol. You can even argue that they are better off without having melo's handicap of a contract. I mean hindsight says that they are b.c of the moves they were able to make after the trade.

and out of all those situations, they navigated it the best. the only other team I'd make a case for is Utah with Deron, cuz they didn't wait, they just did the damn thing instead of letting it turn into a soap opera.

but yeah, Denver had a valuable chip, same as Orlando, Toronto, Minnesota, Memphis, that was determined to leave and out of all those teams they got the most value in return for their chip. you can try and credit Melo's handling of the situation for that all you want, but these things don't happen in a vacuum, management deserves credit for managing it well themselves.

you can try and credit denver's handling of the situation for that all you want, but these things don't happen in a vacuum. You are refusing to ackowledge that had melo gave denver any inkling that he was interested in staying, things would have likely transpired very differently.

and here's where the Utah example is worthwhile.

Utah wasn't stupid, they knew Deron was in a position to hold a lot of leverage in the following year, so instead of waiting + hoping, they made a reasonable prediction of what was to unfold and pulled the trigger at the time when they saw they had the most leverage. nobody needed to tell anybody their feelings on the matter, you can look at the contract, look around the league, and make a safe prediction of what's to come.

Dwight did the exact same shit as Melo in stating that he wanted out and gave a list of acceptable teams but somehow Orlando STILL fucked all that up as the other super obvious comparison.

Denver did the best with what they had, which was very, very similar to the boat other teams have found themselves in. Melo's public statements on the matter were one of the least important details in how they navigated that deal.

their own. lol i see you conveniently forgot 12 saying that he didn't want to get traded and signing an extension with Orlando so no he didn't do the exact same thing as melo lmao.

Orlando, like Denver, had a franchise player on the last year of his contract. Orlando, like Denver, had been told by that player that he would be leaving upon termination of that contract. Orlando, like Denver, was given a shortlist of teams that were acceptable trading partners for the player.

Denver did the smart thing, sat on it, and waited it out until the moment where they could get the best deal possible, and it shows in their play since then. Orlando, on the other hand, caved early and gave up any and all leverage they had in the negotiations by acting like it was a firesale in July when they still had another 8-10 months before a real solid deadline, and it shows in the utter crap they got in return.

ditto for Shaq I believe, ditto for KG?

but the point is Denver looks good now cuz they did good on their star deal. other teams didn't, and it shows.

They had already lost out on the best option NJ, because they waited to long with 12 waffling back and forth. NJ said f you and handled they business. That left orl with La being the only possible destination left.

and that's why you wait till the deadline, cuz it's not like the LA option was gonna CLOSE. Orlando had the big chip, like you said, you think LA was gonna lose interest in Dwight by February as opposed to their interest in July? why not ride it out, ratchet up pressure on your trading partners, ratchet up pressure on Dwight, and wait until the moment when you've seen all options and can safely choose the best one. by doing the deal in July, they sacrificed any and all leverage they could have had in the deal, and it shows in the return they got, ESPECIALLY when you compare it to the Denver deal, which could have been done in July that summer, too, but Denver was smart enough to maximize the return on what they held.

trade sucked lol

and they gave Billy King too much time to panic & fuck it up.

I mean, I'm not really complaining because the Sixers swoop in & at least benefitted from it but acting too quickly was certainly not the Magic's issue.

after 2 seasons removed from the trade of Pau

MEM actually won it's first playoff game and playoff series

upsetting the #1 seed SAN

at the time, I can understand the league wide reaction

in trading an all-star for his little brother (it's kind of hard to follow all of the trades of the picks involved, but I think it ended up being Darrell Arthur and Greivis Vasquez as well)

but 3 years later, they are a better franchise w/o Pau

the Timberwolves and Magic scenarios are more indicative of terrible management decisions

MIN got 7 players for KG

and picks

the draft they took Thabeet with the #2, they literally could have picked anybody else and done better

the team KG left behind is kind of comparable to the ORL roster after the D12 trade

kind of leaning toward management screwing those up

and not so much that they didn't get value

but they constructed a team that wasn't going to win a chip

and have to start over

the CP3 trade could easily turn out the same as the MEM situation

NOR didn't have great success with CP3

now they have some pieces

I think they won 1 playoff series with CP3 (could be wrong)

but MEM didn't LOSE either... that's the main thing people forget.

the same thing will happen if LAL wins another chip off this D12 shit
but PHI ends up beasting w/Bynum

one of the few times a "Super Trade" that usually fucks teams in the NBA doesn't

then you threw in CP3 and hit the wayback machine for KG

NOR got Kaman, Gordon, and I think their pick turned into Austin Rivers

what did the picks for Bron and Bosh turn into

I'll wait...

I think CLE, mostly due to Dan Gilbert's delusion, thought they had a Chip team as constructed

so why would they trade Bron after being a shit franchise for over a decade

kind of the same with ORL

they thought that roster was a Chip contender (Otis?)

the TOR thing is just stupid unless Bosh had a no trade clause

then they were kind of limited in what they could do

but again

if all 3 instances were handled like the Melo deal

those franchises would be better off today

compared to waiting for picks (literally, waiting)

what are we arguing again?

Nobody wants to talk about the Bynum trade?

we gave up Iggy (our "Star"), Vuc(a rookie) and a draft pick (Harkless)

for a franchise center (I'm hoping)

that's a great trade IMO

pop and every other owner/coach would be writing letters to stern.

Knicks are still stuck on the road getting swept or beat in five games in the playoffs.

Nuggets ran in place vis a vis playoff position and may be improving.

Denver got better, the Knicks stayed the same in the long view. The Knicks are still too weak in a weak conference, I mean the East is really going to be shit this year with Orlando and Chicago each taking major hits. If they cannot win a series this year, bang, dead issue, an embarrassing failure and the latest in a series of those.

NO!!

Are you saying that, as currently constructed, they're underachieving by not nabbing the 2 seed? Or are you saying that, without the Melo trade, they'd be in contention for the 2 seed?

I think both statements are a little crazy, for the record, but I'm curious.

And please explain why?

Boston?
We should be able to compete with them why the fuck should we not be battling for the 2 seed?

All agendas aside...

- Not convinced Carmelo is the leader the Knicks need him to be.
- Your starting PF is a poor rebounder and average defender. And that will cause problems for...
- Your defensive anchor Tyson Chandler. Bulls fans have seen this for the past two seasons. When Noah has to cover for Booozer, he gets in foul trouble early. Not sure what Kurt Thomas has left in the tank. Him and
- Marcus Camby, who btw? 16 years in the league
- I liked Ronnie Brewer when he was here in Chicago in Thibs defensive system, but he's not a replacement for Shump.
- J.R. Smith

01 Heat
02 Celtics
03 Nets
04 Pacers
05 Knicks
06 Sixers
07 Bulls
08 Cavaliers

>- Not convinced Carmelo is the leader the Knicks need him to
>be.

Melo's not the leader of the team. He's the #1 option. There's a difference. We know he's not a leader. That's why we got all the veteran leadership.

>- Your starting PF is a poor rebounder and average defender.

My starting PF in the worst year of his career averaged 9 boards and 17 points. I'll take that. Let's not forget how good my PF is.

>And that will cause problems for...
>- Your defensive anchor Tyson Chandler. Bulls fans have seen
>this for the past two seasons. When Noah has to cover for
>Booozer, he gets in foul trouble early. Not sure what Kurt
>Thomas has left in the tank.

My defensive anchor Tyson will be just fucking fine. Worry about your squad.

>- Marcus Camby, who btw? 16 years in the league

And he was the best offensive rebounder in the league last year. We want him to come off the bench. How many people have a back up center that good?


>- I liked Ronnie Brewer when he was here in Chicago in Thibs
>defensive system, but he's not a replacement for Shump.

He's a stop gap for Shump. Shump is still our guy, but we needed someone to fill in and we got a great defender for league minimum. Act like its not a good pick up if you want to.

>- J.R. Smith

Instant offense off the bench. Every team needs one.

>01 Heat
>02 Celtics
>03 Nets
>04 Pacers
>05 Knicks
>06 Sixers
>07 Bulls
>08 Cavaliers

We can compete with the C's. They'll be banking on KG and he's not getting younger. Our old guys come off the bench. They're old guys start. Not saying that we'll surely beat them out, but my point is we'll be competing for the 2 seed.

You have the Nets 3rd? Based on what? Its the EXACT same team as last year plus Joes contract. They'll be better but damn dudes is really drinking the Kool Aid based on Joe Johnson. And you wanna talk about a non rebounding mother fucker?? Look at Brook.

Again the Pacers. We had a better year than them last year record wise, and we played half the year with no point guard and D'antoni as the coach. You believe the Pacers after that playoff performance. I don't. We'll see. I ain't worried about them.

We SHOULD be battling to win our division.

them this year, BOS might be a MFin problem

IDK, they might even have improved

DAYUM lookin at that roster hurt me

The Nets might make the playoffs

FOH with them being in the mix

>Melo's not the leader of the team. He's the #1 option.

...

better coached team than the knicks
less distractions
younger (fwiw)
and bynum might be motivated to beast before hitting free agency......

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2t0pylg8G1r8wmb0.gif

Nobody cares about regular season good.

used to being in the lottery. Once you are regular season good then next step is to contend..if not you're failing. see atlanta.

on my 2k12 season with roster updates
and iggy is a MVP candidate who getting more ASG votes than kobe
for whatever that's worth.....

>on my 2k12 season with roster updates
>and iggy is a MVP candidate who getting more ASG votes than
>kobe
>for whatever that's worth.....

I was enraged at the title.

i know at one point last yr denver had a double digit win advantage despite playing in the tougher conference
the j.lin run might have equalized that a bit though....
knicks got the better player obviously
but the nuggets basically kept on trucking without melo, have better cap flexibility(or at least did when the trade was made), and some how probably have a better shot to win a title
maybe if the knicks make it out the 1st round this year(or win two games at least geez) it might begin to equal out but i think right now denver has done better post trade

How people can talk stupid Would be, Could be shit with the Knicks is amazing to me. Denver were a 6th seed in the west vs. Knicks 7th seed in the weak ass east. And they only made Playoff's because of a period Melo wasn't even playing...

Ferociously all those games.

http://i641.photobucket.com/albums/uu138/rgfhgdghhfd/ai-billups.jpg

____________

Dallas Heatvricks BACK 2 BACK CHAMPS!!

>the Lakers are one
>injury to Nash/Kobe/Howard at the wrong time away from being a
>low seed

You've got to be joking.

D12 goes down, they still have Nash-Kobe-Pau.
Kobe goes down? Nash-Dwight-Pau.
Nash? Kobe-Dwight-Pau.
Pau? Dwight-Kobe-Nash.

If two guys go down, it depends on which two. If it's both guards or both big men- especially both big men- then it's potentially catastrophic. If it's one of each, in any combination, we're still in excellent shape with a big two that are perfectly capable of doing some serious heavy lifting, especially with Tawn being around (offensively speaking, of course) as the #5 man able to slide over to the 4 if one of the big men go down. He'd still be the third or fourth option depending on the specifics of such an event, and he's a nice piece to have at that point in the rotation.

So, unless it's Pau and Dwight at the same time for a prolonged period of time, we've still got a legit shot at top 4 seeding. Title hopes diminish but we need to lose three of the 4 for it to make us drop that low. Artest and Tawn are our 5/6 players, unless Jordan continues his growth, in which case this is a completely different conversation.

Up to that point look at the return for stars who had been traded recently. On the high end you had Shaq (two semi stars and a filler contract), KG (one good young big guy who didn't really stick) and TMac (two emo ass guards who'd already peaked). On the low end you had guys like AI and Barkley being given away or maybe some low-key salvage type of shit (Gasol for Gasol).

Melo set a new standard, you saw a similar deal with Deron right afterward and you saw the league step in and say if the Hornets couldn't get that kind of quality, they shouldn't fuck with a deal for Paul.

So, uh, yeah, the Nuggs got a great deal and it's been known since the minute the trade was announced. I would take it a step further, not only did they win the deal from a relative standpoint, they won the deal outright. Already their team is as good as it was and the pieces they retained are still improving.

Gallo and Chandler, and those they had to give big contracts to to hold onto. Mozgov's got little value, and Felton they flipped into Miller, who they could have signed this past offseason anyway. All the picks involved are due in like 2015, so they've gotten nothing there.

The depth of the Nuggs is due more to having very few misses over all their transactions the past 3-5 years. Every trade they've bought low and sold high and had two big hits in getting Lawson and Faried with late round picks. The impact of the Melo trade's kind of overblown.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

12-2 over last 14 games.
20-3 at home.
gonna get that fourth seed and wax the grizz or golden state in the first round.
don't see them beating OKC at all though

the fact that the nugs are 26th in defensive rebounding (despite having faried, mcgee and koufos) is truly a testament to karl's nonsensical line-up management. so that's always a threat to upend the AGENDA MAGMA-CAULDRON

at least it'll be fun when the nugs have a better record than the knicks in a week.

Denver Nuggetzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

spurs have the number one seed. nugs wouldn't play OKC until WCF if things stay as is. think they could give the spurs problems.

they're very good. with lawson finally playing well and their schedule less insane, the nugs' record is starting to reflect things more accurately.

they still have a better chance of losing first round then being a Conference Finals team & their only shot at a title remains multiple plane crashes.

If you wanna get some action on them winning two rounds of playoffs in the West, I'm down.

that included 1.5 quality teams
they might be starting to put it together now though
second half push should be REAL interesting for the west
memphis and LAC likely dropping. houston and portland trying stay in the mix
LAL surging,etc

too bad minny got ravaged by injuries, they would have been tough too. the east needs d-rose, bynum and granger to come back and make things interesting in the playoffs.

OH CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT RUDY GAY'S "COUPLE OF PLAYOFFS RUNS" NOW? YOU MUST HAVE FORGOTTEN TO REPLY IN OTHER THREAD THANKS

currently in the four seed.

But I don't see them beating Golden State, even with home court
If they play Memphis though, they move to the 2nd round

The only top 3 Western team they have a shot of beating is LAC. I think Memphis is their only real chance to advance past the 1st round

warriors aren't as good as their record, anyway. they're slightly better than mediocre, although bogut being back might improve them.

They've been better as of late. The 3-1 says Denver, but 3 out of those 4 games were in November. GS has been way better since then.

I think Memphis on down can be taken by Denver. It's just that GS and the way they're playing right today, they can do everything Denver can do, and they play better defense.

Their record is better, they have won head to head and they had a stumbling start. GS had a hot one. Recently, the Nuggets have been playing much better.

>But I don't see them beating Golden State, even with home

here's the guy who called my prediction of the nugs being a "top five team and a sleeper contender" one of the stupidest things he's ever read.

nugs: top six team, winner of eight in a row, SLEEPER title contender.

HI!

(BTW, I saw you pre-edit. Don't be coy now.)

coy? i just remembered you were one of the jackasses who over-reacted to a prediction that was reasonable at the time and, now, seemingly prescient. just be glad you're not on the flame-engulfed anti-harden raft.

Because sleepers don't win in the NBA. You're either a contender, or you're not. They're a good 50+ win team, but not a real contender IMO.

There's like 5 teams with a shot at a title at any given time.

This season it appears that list is:

OKC
San Antonio
Miami
Clippers

Honestly, I don't see anyone else. The 2nd tier has your Knicks, Pacers, and Denvers, but nobody has them winning a title.

While I do not think they are a contender, I could definitely see them in the second round. You never know what can happen. Favorable matchup. Injury luck. They are good enough to pay attention to, that's really the standard in the NBA as there are usually 2-4 clear-ish contenders and that's it.

Dallas had a MVP in Dirk. While nobody picked them preseason, you think Denver has the possibility of running thru the best players on earth en route to a title? This ain't football dude...it doesn't happen.

One of the top players in the game. Completely different IMO.

Generally, if you don't have one of those guys, you aren't a real contender.

And yeah, Denver can win a playoff series.....maybe 2, though that would be a hell of an achievement for them. They aren't going beyond that.

yes, i understand that melo never won an MVP award like Dirk did, but you can argue that melo is a dirk like superstar player and the knicks a squad very much constructed like that Dallas team. if they are healthy and get hot at the right time they are def. first tier contenders.


--------------------------
"cock your hat -- angles are attitudes"
-frank sinatra

he won that chip. No one was seriously considering dallas as contenders, many had them getting upset in the 1st round that year. That's where people are considering the knicks and melo right now and its valid.

and I made this thread. Even I wouldn't expect Denver to win a Semi-Conference round right now. I'd have good hopes about it, but realistically i don't see them doing much better than, say, the Pacers did last year. They're going to catch some team on the chin that for whatever reason doesn't stay down, gets angry that they even gave Denver that open shot and unleashes a Pacquaio-like flurry on them that leaves them down 4-2 at best and heading home.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

gunnin' for that three seed.

seven wins in a row, just waxed the clips. nugs have the best home record in the NBA, tied with miami and san antonio with three losses in their building.

THANKS CARMELO

Seems like a Win-Win deal to me.

aren't really huge reasons for their success. Gallo/Chandler are somewhere around their 5th most important player. Mozgov is irrelevant and they turned felton into dre miller(right?) That trade might be more important than the melo one. lol

If you put Melo back on denver instead of Gallo, Chandler and Mozgov, Denver would be a serious contender in the west.

melo makes about $20M. iggy and gallo make about $24M combined. they're absolutely better off with the latter (especially since gallo and melo are roughly the same player, except melo shoots a lot more).

http://www.thenbageek.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=215&player_ids%5B%5D=70

unless you are talking about luxury tax which i'd assume you aren't lol

or resigning mcgee, i guess. either way, it's hard to justify paying melo $20M unless you're a huge market or willing to go over the cap.

outside of dirk, the 12 highest paid players in the NBA are all in NY, LA or MIA (and those are 9, 10 and 11).

>it's hard to justify paying melo $20M unless you're a huge market or willing to go over the cap.

I feel melo would put them in contender status and easily worth going over the cap for, you obviously feel they are contenders as is so we obviously won't agree any further.

but the difference isn't worth $10M as far as i can tell.

as an aside, the whole "denver has no stars" narrative is looking fragile -- lawson is averaging 22pts and 8 assists over the last month and a half. his early season struggles were the main reason they underperformed. this is how good the nuggets were supposed to be.

10 straight, game behind the clippers for the fifth-best record in basketball. unbeatable at home.

'title contenders' equals me being 'Safe + Sound'(c)Quik

You can continue partying on but until they get into a home playoff series or two seed, they ain't sniffing no parts of a title.

and it's nice that the "stupidest thing i've ever said" is more right than everyone who declared the lakers unstoppable before the season.

gonna refrain from making playoff predictions until we see how the seedings shape up. if the nugs get home advantage, i'll rock with them in the first round against memphis or clippers.

as an aside, the sixers tried to hire masai ujiri before this season and he was like LOL

the nuggets to be regular season good. They are deep team, that runs in a city with high altitude. I believe in the prediction thread i had them as the 3 seed behind OKC and lolakerslol.

The criticism came from you saying they are championship contenders which has NOT been proven yet.

but for the record, i said "sleeper," and that no one was beating miami.

i agree that being deep doesn't mean as much in the postseason (and having truly elite players means more), but if a team has a top-five record, i usually don't mind giving them a "sleeper" tag out of respect. that excludes a weird team like last year's rose-less bulls.

spurs
miami
okc
memphis
clips
denver

i'd give memphis/clips the same status right now. it's mostly a rhetorical thing, since the heat aren't losing.

with d'antoni at the helm?

I never cared too much for Karl.

they gave up afflalo in the iggy deal, and he was one of their better 3-pt shooters. now the nugs take a below average amount and are 25th in 3-pt percentage. they have the second-ranked offense by running, scoring in the paint and assaulting the o-boards. so i'm not sure d'antoni would necessarily make them improve dramatically on that end (although gallo and chandler were excellent in ny).

not a fan of karl's subbing patterns. he goes small unnecessarily and doesn't play javale enough.

>as an aside, the sixers tried to hire masai ujiri before this
>season and he was like LOL

that was probably because of the Collins thing, hopefully we're off that in a month.

it's so wack seeing teams like houston, orlando and denver building in a way that--even if it doesn't work--makes logical sense. meanwhile the sixers signed kwame and hawes while having the nba's fifth-best rebounder already on the roster.

>it's so wack seeing teams like houston, orlando and denver
>building in a way that--even if it doesn't work--makes logical
>sense. meanwhile the sixers signed kwame and hawes while
>having the nba's fifth-best rebounder already on the roster.

Or bringing in 3pt shooters and chaining them to the bench.

But they hired an anatytics guy though. Might just be window dressing. We'll see.

let this be their Brad Greenberg/Johnny Davis mulligan.

Fire Collins the day the season ends, get a real GM with a vision & get to work.

They're not bogged down in ant bad deals beyond next year (maybe JRich but he'd be an expiring chip anyway by then if he's got a player option) & they ain't winning anything next year anyway so start getting this thing ready for 2015 & beyond.

collins will stay and bynum will be re-signed. welcome to elton brand part two.

>collins will stay and bynum will be re-signed. welcome to
>elton brand part two.

they're better than they were. No onerous contracts. A lame duck old coach. A new ownership that actually cares about basketball and got to see how playoff bbasketball affects the fanbase. And for the first time in a long time. You know what they have talentwise.

I'm with bomb. This is a mulligan for this season. They took a shot and it didn't work. Bravo, but now you can re-load. It did take cajoles to not bring back the "made it to the 2nd round" gang back.



----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

they're going to resign him and the fate of the franchise rests within his paper mache knees. if he's a dominant center, coupled with jrue, thad and a lottery pick, they're not in bad shape at all.

this dream will surely be smashed into a pile of poop

if he even decides to re-sign with the Sixers, that will be a clear indication he knows he ain't ever really gonna try to play again.

>collins will stay and bynum will be re-signed. welcome to
>elton brand part two.

When the light at the end of the tunnel is perhaps dealing with Andrew Bynum, it's probably a good time for a coach to bounce. I think he retires after the season.

Either way it'll be bitter sweet.

I hope it's Nuggets Knicks in the finals.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

they got good return to stay as good or better than they were with him.

they did well, that's a done deal. the knicks did pretty well, too, exactly how well we dunno yet.

Perfectly fair trade.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Nugs coming for that three seed

tied with memphis for the fifth best record in the NBA.

GET DOWN OR LAY DOWN

when the pace slows down, dude is going to get exposed once again considering that he plays major minutes.

he ain't ray allen but he ain't scared either. they also don't NEED him to be the guy to take the shot. we saw lawson nail the game winner against OKC, gallo is a shooter, etc. he has more options than he did in philly without question.

not nearly as good as last season, but close to his career average (although terrible from the right corner baseline, which is weird and problematic). AI2's a middling midrange shooter and has been uncharacteristically pathetic from the free throw line, which have combined to make him a below-average scorer in terms of overall efficiency for the first time in his career.

the only good news on that is that since he doesn't shoot much, the difference between his career TS% of 55% and this year's slump to 51.6% comes out to roughly 0.6 points a game.

Sorry Guinny.

I still don't see them making the WCF, but...props.

JUST AS A REMINDER TO MYSELF

MEDIOCRE ON THE ROAD, 32-3 AT HOME

deal...

Ppl, especially Knicks fans, bought into the early season's *fool's gold* when they got out the gate fast. Since the All Star break they've been barely a .500 ball club.

I keep telling ppl that any team w/Melo as their best player isn't going very far.

>
>I keep telling ppl that any team w/Melo as their best player
>isn't going very far.

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/55466/golden-in-denver-how-the-nuggets-have-become-one-of-leagues-best-teams

http://tinyurl.com/c7swupp

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

lol karl lol

not sure how that changes the fact that i was (to my recollection) the only person on here who said they were a top five team and would finish third in the west behind OKC and SAS. i said such a record made them a default "sleeper contender" -- although karl would bungle things and the heat were going to win anyway.

i thought they'd beat golden state, but bailed on their playoff fortunes when gallo went down. the funny thing is that the west is wide open now, too.

season and not be close to winning a title but lets not let little facts cloud an otherwise entertaining post.