It gets attached to a lot of work but what do you consider to be the greats.

I'll go a little leftfield/

Box Office Poison by Alex Robinson
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"The mass media causes sexual misdirection: It prompts us to *need* something deeper than what we *want*"
--Chuck Klosterman

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...fucking amazing.

~~~~~
http://koanism.textamerica.com/

Co-fucking signed br JR, the writer of writers.

...re-read it just a while ago. amazing.
~~~~~
http://koanism.textamerica.com/

Someone on here recommended it in a similiar post a few months back, and I was more impressed with it than any other graphic novel I've read. So thanks, whoever that was.

I definately reccomended it here in the past. Wow. What a book.

.

...In fact, both Gilbert and Jaime Hernandez have recently released big, fat, complete editions of their original "Love and Rockets" storylines:

"Palomar: The Heartbreak Soup Stories" by Gilbert

and

"Locas: The Maggie and Hopey Stories" by Jaime

Both titles hold places of respect and honor on my bookshelf.


The Hernandez Bros have managed to pay the utmost respect to their influences, not just the forefathers of the modern comic book, but also in the areas of music, film, literature and painting, etc. And at the same time, they have progressed and influenced the entire comic medium to such an extent that, though they are both appreciated and admired now, their true impact will probably not be fully realized for quite some time.

but i can't do so in good conscience since i already have those complete stories, and there's no bonus materials to speak of

i AM however trying to get up on this: http://www.brightredrocket.com/

>i AM however trying to get up on this:
>http://www.brightredrocket.com/

...I've been looking for that for about a week now. I guess I'm out of the loop, cuz I didn't know about it until I caught the ad in the most recent Love & Rockets, and when I called around looking for a shop that had it, they were either out of stock or didn't carry it. I don't even really know what it is, I just know I want it.

So maybe I'll just ante up on the site you've linked...thanks for that, btw!

until i saw an ad for it in Shock Cinema

generally, i buy anything with the Los Bros Hernandez name on it, but i'm waiting a bit with this one just to find out a little more about it. (i mean, i bought Mike Allred's movie and it was... er, enjoyable. but... you know!)

i know i'm gonna end up getting it anyway, though. it may not be a cinematic masterpiece but i know Beto won't disappoint.

(i mean, i bought Mike Allred's movie
>and it was... er, enjoyable. but... you know!)


I was collecting everything Mike Allred for at least 13, 14 years. The earliest editions of "Madman" are what really got me into seriously reading and seeking out good, alternative comics. "Madman" lead to "Jimmy Corrigan/Acme", which lead to "Hate", "Hate" lead to "Eightball", "Eightball" lead to "Love & Rockets", and so on and so on and so on...

But Allred's new goddamn thing, this 12 part illustrated Book of Mormon...well, more power to him I guess, but I just can't do it. It was a strange feeling though, seeing a new Allred book, excitedly grabbing it off the shelf, flipping through it and checking it out, and......putting it back.

It had to happen at some point, I suppose.

But I have never seen his movie...I've only heard terrible, terrible things about it...how is it? Watchable in a kitschy, MST3K sort of way? I'd sort of forgotten about it, but now I'm thinking I should track it down while I still can...

Los Bros Hernandez will always get my money though, no matter what they decide to do.

i was just like you "more power to him"... i really admire people who believe in something - ANYthing - that deeply, even if i don't necessarily agree with it.

>I was collecting everything Mike Allred for at least 13, 14
>years. The earliest editions of "Madman" are what really got
>me into seriously reading and seeking out good, alternative
>comics.

yep... me too. stuff like that wrenched me away from the world of conventional superhero fare for more than a decade.

>But I have never seen his movie...I've only heard terrible,
>terrible things about it...how is it? Watchable in a kitschy,
>MST3K sort of way? I'd sort of forgotten about it, but now
>I'm thinking I should track it down while I still can...

yeah... part MST3K, part Cinemax (not in the sexy way, but in the cheesy visual and sound effects way). i can appreciate the intent of the film, though

inbox me your address and i'll send it to you... i'm trynna get rid of a lot of my old VHS tapes

Cerebus - Church & State (I and II)
Watchmen (yeah, I know. But it's fucking GREAT).
Sin City - The first one
Sandman - A Game of You

the story of a guy questioning his faith doesn't sound interesting at all

and had i known that's what "blankets" was about, i probably would have never picked it up

but the execution is amazing.
and at more than 500 pages, it's just overwhelming


2wenty

really good stuff....i was thinking i wouldn't be able to get through it all, but in the end i wanted more...

From Hell

It was real deep with the freemasonry. Funny thing is my dad's a Mason and I had em read the book and he fliped out like "How the fuck does this guy know this much info!"

...took me some slight time and effort to appreciate and fully get into, but once I did it was more than worth it...the best things usually work out that way anyway.

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"The mass media causes sexual misdirection: It prompts us to *need* something deeper than what we *want*"
--Chuck Klosterman

And for kevin O'neil fans I have to recommend any of the Marshall Law books especially the first one, Fear and Loathing.

The second one falls apart at the end. that is, except for Hydes revenge on the Invisible man. They are both good anyway so why not start with the first one.

mainly the Hyde stuff but also because of Dr. Moreau's bio-weapon.

before the 2nd series finished (how many months/years between issues??) people on here were speculating on what the secret weapon would be?? the best suggestion was that it would be a giant rat (its origins come from being mentioned in passing in some Sherlock Holmes story and the legends of Giant Mice in Europe; possibly the Giant Mouse of Minsk from American Tail??)...rats carry disease and disease is what defeated the aliens from War of the Worlds...the actual ending was very anti-climactic as it was just a bio-engineered virus...

there's a 3rd book on the way from Fantagraphics I think...its no longer at ABC/DC Comics...

of course.

Now, you've got your Watchmen and your Jimmy Corrigans which will forever get the GOAT nods for the way they utilize the medium- great stories told in a way that only comics can tell them.

But goddamn, Sandman, particularly the single stand alone issues, amaze me with how fantastic a story you can tell in the confines of just 22 or so pages. I just finished up the 'Ramadan' issue and wow. Just wow.

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http://www.myspace.com/722546
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"The mass media causes sexual misdirection: It prompts us to *need* something deeper than what we *want*"
--Chuck Klosterman

they just released Rose in Trade Paperback so its another great one to add to the collection...I have the Bone One Volume Edition and love it!!!

Cosign on the Watchmen.

My other favorites are Kabuki: Circle Of Blood and Kabuki: Metamorphosis by David Mack.

Most anything by Brian Michael Bendis is pretty solid too.

what's fucking with Batman on drugs??

Some others off the top of my head,
Golden Age
Watchmen
Squaduran Supreme
Avengers/JLA Hardcover

what's the best one to START with?
(aka I've only ever read shit like Punisher and Bettle Bailey, but I've seen The Watchmen on the library shelf, what next?)

Turns out the Sarge is a serial rapist, using his rank as a shield to terrorize civilians with impunity, and Beatle goes AWOL to bring him down.

~ GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS (xmen)
~ any TRANSMETROPOLITAN
~ BLANKETS
that heat:
www.typeillypress.com

the atari throwback t-shirt cause y'all had patterns to ms. pacman, too!)
http://www.cafepress.com/typeillypress/716579

the golden age of hip hop
http://www.cafepress.com/typeillypress.26289114

ON INSTANT MESSENGERS:
m

Jughead fights masturbation addiction.

I've always kinda hated Archie before ( idk why but they creep me out) but I also never read it.

Watchmen & From Hell - the graphic novel format fits both minis better than individual issues. I still think that the best way to appreciate almost all of Moore's work is in this format.
Bone - self explanatory.
Sandman - even though I wouldn't say that a g/n reading is mandatory to really get it, Gaiman has so many exemplary issues that this format is really the easienst to collect them in.

I wouldn't include Dark Knight Returns, because I feel that Miller's storytelling actually fits individualized issues more than a collected format.

I wouldn't include Love & Rockets, because, embarrasingly, I've never read it. BTW, for fans of the Hernandez Bros. work, where should I start if I want to get into this? Should I just start from the beginning? Is everything collected?

i would say start at the beginning, but the beginning is... very different from what the book ended up being about

roughly, it's divided into two broad storylines (or "worlds"): Gilbert's "Heartbreak Soup" (concerning the inhabitants of the South American town of Palomar) and Jaime's "Locas" (set in Los Angeles, dealing with the hijinks of a bunch of post-punk proto-riot grrrrrls)

they've been collected in numerous volumes but they were recently compilated in definitive collections:

Gilbert's "Palomar"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1560975393/qid=1122912397/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-1776856-0095305?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

Jaime's "Locas"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/156097611X/ref=pd_bxgy_img_2/102-1776856-0095305?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

>i would say start at the beginning, but the beginning is...
>very different from what the book ended up being about

I tried picking up on Love & Rockets not too long ago. I started from the beginning, and it wasn't bad per se, just totally not what I was expecting or looking for at the time. Maybe I'll give it another spin.

>i would say start at the beginning, but the beginning is...
>very different from what the book ended up being about



...about the 'Love' and less and less about the 'Rockets'.

My favorite comic ever.

nm.

nm.

I'm about a third of the way through with it, and I gotta say it's pretty damn good so far. But I gotta admit, my non-superhero comic reading is pretty lacking, so I'm not working with a lot of context here.

What I'm saying here is I'm about to embark on a serious Dan Clowes binge, people. And I'm looking for recommendations. (Even though I'll probably wind up reading everything regardless)

...my suggestion would be to do your best to try to read it all in the original comic book form it came out in....
'
...if that's an impossibility, let me know and I'll break it down into a specific sequence...Clowes' comics are one thing I happen to know a lot about....don't hesitate to ask.

I'm just getting started on the guy (Finished Ghost World like an hour ago. Loved every single panel of it) From what I understand- most, if not all of his published stuff originated in Eightball. Correct? Ghost World, Art School Confidential, and much to my surprise Ice Haven was apparently taken from Eightball as well. Is the guy currently making comics or is he just re-publishing the old stuff?

I see that Fantagraphics seems to be selling individual issues of Eightball (at least some of them). I think I'm gonna order that 20th Century Eightball collection and go from there.

How would you rate his works? Anything that stands out as his 'best'? Or 'worst'?

And the guy used to do stuff for Cracked magazine as well? I'll have to sift through some of my old issues next time I'm back home. His style looks familiar and I think I was reading Cracked around the same time he would have been in there.

But yeah, I think this guy is gonna be my new comic book obsession for a while. So any and all knowledge you can dispense upon me would be greatly appreciated.

How was this middle aged man able to write such well developed teenage girl characters?

Has Clowes ever gone on record as to what ever became of Enid and Rebecca?

That vandal at the very end of the book- the one who has been writing 'Ghost World' on everything...that's supposed to be Clowes, maybe?

and finally- Is the movie any good?

>How was this middle aged man able to write such well
>developed teenage girl characters?


Cuz he's a genius.

I think I've heard him answer this question before. He said he didn't think about the fact that these characters were any different from himself, he just told the story as he felt it. I don't know if you've heard this or figured it out yet but:

ENID COLESLAW is just a re-arranging of the letters DANIEL CLOWES.

That's pretty revealing, I think.
>
>Has Clowes ever gone on record as to what ever became of Enid
>and Rebecca?

Nope, nor do I think he cares. If you pay attention though, they sometimes make cameos in his other stories.
>
>That vandal at the very end of the book- the one who has been
>writing 'Ghost World' on everything...that's supposed to be
>Clowes, maybe?


Yeah, I can see that.

>
>and finally- Is the movie any good?


It's a cool flick. Zwigoff and Clowes wrote the screenplay together, and he was on set during shooting, sort of an unofficial co-director sort of thing. And it differs quite a bit from the comic at points, but manages to still capture the intent. It's different enough that you almost have to see it.

>Cuz he's a genius.

I'm leaning towards agreement here.

>ENID COLESLAW is just a re-arranging of the letters DANIEL
>CLOWES.

Yes, I've read several reviews/interviews/essays regarding Ghost World over the past few days... every single one of them make sure to mention this little tidbit. Very clever, and yes, quite revealing.


>Nope, nor do I think he cares. If you pay attention though,
>they sometimes make cameos in his other stories.

Yeah, in one interview I read he basically says that Enid will pretty much never fit in no matter where she ends up (Which from what I can tell, is more or less how Mr. Clowes feels as well...constantly struggling with that "Who am I" question), although wherever that may be, it's much more interesting than where Rebecca winds up. Other than that I'm not too concerned either. It's beside the point.

Thanks.

Is the guy currently making comics or is he
>just re-publishing the old stuff?

He's definitely slowed down to less than a snail's pace. A new issue has become sort of a Halley's Comet sort of thing.


>
>How would you rate his works?


I dunno, I've never really tried. He holds my respect on a level that I don't even question what or why he does what he does anymore. But I think I know what you mean:
'Like A Velvet Glove Cast In Iron' was the first continuing/chaptered series that ran in Eightball for quite a while, with cliffhanger endings and all...weirdest, coolest thing I'd ever read at that point, and it was mixed into each issue with all this other crazy shit I'd never seen in a comic before. Holds high sentimental value.


'Pussey!' is his jab at every aspect of the comics industry. The story of a geeky-fanboy that becomes a comic mogul. Worth your time and money, you'll never look at another mainstream comic the same way again.

'Lout Rampage' and 'Orgy Bound' are collections of the funnier, meaner, crazier, creepier stories that ran in Eightball. A must own, in my opinion, or you'll be missing out on a huge aspect of the art and humor Clowes is known for...

...which is very similiar to '20th Century Eightball'. Kind of a 'Reader's Digest Condensed' version of the original comics, and reprints of a few stories from the two above mentioned titles as well as adding in some newer stuff.

...'Caricature' is sad, pathetic, depressing...and damn good. But I'd get to know the earlier stuff before I'd read this one, if I were you, and see if you develop an eye?...ear?...whatever...for these works first.

...'David Boring' is just a great story, and is kind of a trip to read now considering when it was written. A murder mystery/tale of young adulthood/end of the world series that is well worth reading. But again, I'd familiarize myself with the earlier stuff first...just a thought.


Anything that stands out as his
>'best'? Or 'worst'?


He's got a collection of this character he'd created pre-Eightball called 'The Manly World of Lloyd Llewelyn' that I fucking love. But it's early stuff, his techniques in writing/drawing/storytelling weren't quite figured out yet, which is part of the appeal, I think.

And there's, y'know...'Ghost World'. Which you've read already. Damn good stuff.

I can't really say anything is better or worse than anything else he does, cuz the stories are always so different from each other. Nowadays I'm just so pysched whenever he puts anything out that I like it before I even take it off the shelf to buy it.

>
>But yeah, I think this guy is gonna be my new comic book
>obsession for a while. So any and all knowledge you can
>dispense upon me would be greatly appreciated.
>


Keep me up to date on what you're reading of his stuff, definitely.

Very helpful, man. I ordered 20th Century Eightball & Ice Haven (got it for cheap) from Amazon used books last night. From there I'll probably check for Pussey!, which I was sort of avoiding because of the name (damn this bible belt upbringing!) It sounds fascinating.

And from there, who knows. But I have a feeling I'll be reading a lot of Clowes in the coming months. And then–I really need to see what this Love & Rockets hype is all about...

Any particular issues of Eightball you'd recommend? Fantagraphics has some random ones for sale. #23, "The Death Ray" issue looks interesting.

...'Death Ray' is the most recent issue, and it's pretty good, definitely worth checking out. Up until a couple of months ago I would've told you to get the 'Ice Haven' issue, but now that beautiful book is out, with extra pages no less.

I dunno, Eightball went from a semi-regular series/periodical type of thing to set of occasionally published one shots. You can get all of what was in the earlier issues from collecting the books, the shame in this is you won't see the stories in the format they were originally released in. But at the same time, it really ain't that big a deal...the important thing is to just get them and read them, after all.

I would just tell you to pick your path, either pursue finding as many issues as you can, or collect the books...or, you know...do both.

Sorry I didn't answer this question so well, keep me posted on what you're getting.

like American Splendor and shit like that but I gotta say I was disappointed with Ghost World. I mean, I'm 20 and I thought it was a little too 'angsty' for me...and I usually love teen angst. I should probably give it another chance...

.

I'm shocked no one has talked about this series. I started them reading the tradepaperbacks last years. worth every dollar.


Without pain, without sacrifice, we would have nothing.-Tyler Durden

>I'm shocked no one has talked about this series.



I've tried, man, I've tried. Nobody here seems to like it yet. Yet.

Beats the shit outta 'Sin City', in my opinion.

the new issue one with more issues. Shit's brilliant.

...instead of just 3 or 4 comics, these new books collect entire storylines. Fucking cool, but I've been buying the comics and the old trades for about 8 years now, so I guess I'm gonna stick with what I've been doing. Until I'm rich, of course.

Or has nobody brought up "Preacher" yet?

A great story from the God of Manga.

Everyone credits Frank Miller for his interpretation of Batman, but I will Allan Moore's Killing Joke up against any of the Miller books.

the story was good, but the execution just comes off as corny

i take into teh consideration that things are a lot sifferent now than they were 20 years ago,
but it didn't age well at all.

The Killing Joke is excellent. It does to the Joker what Dark Knight Returns did to Batman.

...

The Changers were dope, and leads into the whole Authority story.

Batman: Year One
Sin City(the first book)
Sin City: That Yellow Bastard

I can't think of them right now, don't have my collection handy. I didn't mention the obligatory ones like The Watchmen, etc.

so I had to give it some time/thought to see what I find important in these things.

And I think my favorite that I've read so far is Whiteout by Greg Rucka. Particularly the first TOB.

It's funny that I should choose that b/c in general I prefer superhero stuff to normal people stuff. But this read really well.

I'm not a comics fanboy, but the great artwork mixed with the story really got to me.

I really wish someone could turn this into an animated film. The only catch is that they need to leave in everything.
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The OKP® King of the Late Pass™
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its great

Some of my favs are Bendis' early work: Jinx, torso, Goldfish. As a series I'm preferential to Bone.

"graphic novels"

come on now. a pig's pu$$y is still pork...let's not dress it up.

and WATCHMEN is the GOAT. no other listed here has deconstructed the narrative of the medium in such a dope way.

its like what Fincher did with film and FIGHTCLUB, but on a much pointed level.

The whole "why is it called a *comic* book when it's not funny?" argument doesn't hold water.

They still call novels novels when there's nothing novel about them. Them shits is 500 years old.

nm

"A graphic novel is a type of comic book, usually with a lengthy and complex storyline similar to those of novels, and often aimed at mature audiences. " -wikipedia

you're at least a good 20 years late.

>you're at least a good 20 years late.

I read the post and had to check my damn calender.

Akira is a goddamn masterpiece in every sense of the word.