I can easily tell you what Toy Story is about (the secret lives of your toys), Finding Nemo (Daddy fish looking for his lost son fish) and Incredibles (superhero doing typical superhero stuff) even if those movies tapped into much larger themes (growing older, dealing with change, dealing with loss, being your best self, etc). And I think that goes for a lot of their best stuff A Bug's Life, Ratatouille, Cars even WALL-E.

But then there are a bunch of the later stuff that's just too complex/abstract while being hugely generic in my mind.

I mean the high concept of Inside Out was easy enough, we have these emotions personified, but can anyone remember what the journey that was going on inside of her with the balls. I mean I haven't seen it since it's release so maybe folks do remember, but to me I just kind of remember the generic journey that are in the second to third act of all pixar movies and nothing particularly that sticks with me.

Or Soul. Seems simple enough. Guy dies and his soul has to decide whether to go to the other side or not, but what exactly was that journey he was on? What was the central lesson to take from it? It's okay not to be great? (side note, why did a movie call soul about a jazz musician have not real jazz in it?)

Onward? Saw it but can't remember it.

The Good Dinosaur, can't remember it.

Some of this might be the difference of seeing Pixar movies when I was younger (to be fair, I was 18 when Toy Story came out) and those being the ones that stick out in my memory, but the older ones seemed to have simpler stories, themes and more memorable then these later ones.


Elemental is sounding like it's a disappointment and maybe its because Pixar movies are no longer event movies where you would go see it even if you had no idea what it is about. It seems to me that they have to start making movies where, I don't know, the trailer for it actually intrigues you and makes you want to see it?

IDK, maybe they just need JOhn Lassiter back.

Well, this could have just been a part of the Elemental Post but I wanted to have the broader discussion, where did Pixar lose it's way?


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

And I think they qualify in your discussion as movies that aren't overly abstract. Kid with problem going through some things, something magical happens, they overcome both the perils of the magic stuff and their personal stuff. They felt, for lack of a better word, more intimate, more personal.

I *do* think they keep ripping off Inside Out and doing these "what if this abstract thing was a city/business?" and I agree that I think it's kinda dumb, lol. Yes, Inside Out was a huge success, but, like, there's only so often you can keep going back to that well. (Elemental also MAJORLY rips off Disney's Zootopia, lol.)

The problem isn't with Pixar, really, imo-- and judging by Lasseter's work for Apple, bringing him back DEFINITELY isn't the answer, lol. I think it's with Disney. They dump Luca and Turning Red onto streaming, so now most of the solutions boil down to Sequel or Super High Concept World things. I think things like Toy Story, Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, etc., all have elements of that Super High Concept World stuff... but the focus was always on creating memorable, relatable characters and a journey that feels very personal.

Not that I doubt Soul and Elemental are personal to the filmmakers-- they certainly are, and it occasionally comes through in brief inspired moments-- but those things just get lost in the sauce imo. And I wonder how much Disney prevents Pixar from being able to run their own show and try new exciting things.

I saw Luca at home and fell asleep (no fault of the movie) and never seen Turning Red.

I would believe they are both great.

The non-creative argument is that Pixar damaged their brand by doing the straight to streamer stuff but I am not making a box office argument, I think some of these later movies aren't that good critically.

I do remember Coco being a very cool movie that worked and wasn't generic because they did ground it in something real culturally. That seems like that's what they did for Luca and Turning Red. I feel like that makes the movies much more personal.

Its kind of what pissed me off about Soul. Like imagine a Pixar movie about a Jazz musician made by a jazz lover that really embraced the music and the mythology. That would have been sooo dope.

The other thought is that maybe other animators just caught up to Pixar? IDK.



>And I think they qualify in your discussion as movies that
>aren't overly abstract. Kid with problem going through some
>things, something magical happens, they overcome both the
>perils of the magic stuff and their personal stuff. They felt,
>for lack of a better word, more intimate, more personal.
>
>I *do* think they keep ripping off Inside Out and doing these
>"what if this abstract thing was a city/business?" and I agree
>that I think it's kinda dumb, lol. Yes, Inside Out was a huge
>success, but, like, there's only so often you can keep going
>back to that well. (Elemental also MAJORLY rips off Disney's
>Zootopia, lol.)
>
>The problem isn't with Pixar, really, imo-- and judging by
>Lasseter's work for Apple, bringing him back DEFINITELY isn't
>the answer, lol. I think it's with Disney. They dump Luca and
>Turning Red onto streaming, so now most of the solutions boil
>down to Sequel or Super High Concept World things. I think
>things like Toy Story, Monsters Inc, Finding Nemo, etc., all
>have elements of that Super High Concept World stuff... but
>the focus was always on creating memorable, relatable
>characters and a journey that feels very personal.
>
>Not that I doubt Soul and Elemental are personal to the
>filmmakers-- they certainly are, and it occasionally comes
>through in brief inspired moments-- but those things just get
>lost in the sauce imo. And I wonder how much Disney prevents
>Pixar from being able to run their own show and try new
>exciting things.


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"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I forget where I read this, but it used to be that the entire Pixar company was essentially working on one movie at a time, and you could see that effort on screen. They’d even dress up the offices with stuff that fit with the theme of that movie to keep everyone in the mood for producing that film.

When Disney took over the pace of “one movie every year or two” wasn’t sufficient. That’s not to say Pixar is half-assing it now or hasn’t produced good stuff since then, but I think a lot of the movies have suffered, and the hype isn’t there for the majority. I haven’t seen Elemental yet, but the fact that it looks like just a revamped Inside Out has probably caused a lot of people to wait for streaming.

2001-2010
Monsters, Inc
Finding Nemo
The Incredibles
Cars
Ratatouille
WALL-E
Up
Toy Story 3

back to back to back to back. that shit is like RZA (1993-1997). or more apt, Studio Ghibli (1984-1991). I don't even praise the MCU like that but I'll bet they never go on another run like phase 1-3. Disney had their separate Golden and Silver Ages, then fell off for 20 years.

artistic streaks in any medium don't keep going forever like that.

>back to back to back to back. that shit is like RZA
>(1993-1997). or more apt, Studio Ghibli (1984-1991). I don't
>even praise the MCU like that but I'll bet they never go on
>another run like phase 1-3. Disney had their separate Golden
>and Silver Ages, then fell off for 20 years.
>
>artistic streaks in any medium don't keep going forever like
>that.

Very, *very* few artists can keep up quality for over 5 years, and almost none for 15 years. Pixar's been releasing films since 1995 and they have a much higher hit rate than most other studios in history.

>back to back to back to back. that shit is like RZA
>(1993-1997). or more apt, Studio Ghibli (1984-1991). I don't
>even praise the MCU like that but I'll bet they never go on
>another run like phase 1-3. Disney had their separate Golden
>and Silver Ages, then fell off for 20 years.
>
>artistic streaks in any medium don't keep going forever like
>that.

Very, *very* few artists can keep up quality for over 5 years, and almost none for 15 years. Pixar's been releasing films since 1995 and they have a much higher hit rate than most other studios in history.

they have still released pantheon works (Coco,Soul,Turning Red,Luca)
if that is what you got from Soul....the disconnect is understandable and doesnt really need to be delved into
Elemental is better than the Cars sequel but not by much lol

specifically Coco, Turning Red and Luca are top 10 pixar movies so....

I think it's worth noting that Coco, Turning Red and Luca all share a cultural specific POV. Same is true with Soul (though I personally feel they feel short).

I think Pixar runs a risk in widening their point of view their movies becoming more generic.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"