not sure if the Pierce sale will put the kids back into the game or take them out of it

amazing that Roman was the voice of reason, as everyone else made tactical errors due to emotion (Tom calling Shiv, Logan underestimating the kids, the kids overpaying to take away something their dad wanted badly)

... do the kids have the money to see the deal through?

I was wondering that as they were heavily implying at episode's end that Logan doesn't really want to take his chips and leave the table.

...to fuck up the GoJo deal and ultimately fucking themselves over in the process.

although we're seeing the kids are powerful when working together, it doesn't seem smart to leverage all their capital on a single move that is still dependent on their dad selling

Roman has all the good business ideas, is most enthusiastic about Hundred, is most reluctant about fighting Logan. He hates the 10B number. He’s the only creative one in the lot.

They will not beat him.

I think his interest in the ATN anchor's appearance ("ballsack with a toupe" lolol) is indicative of exactly that - that he will no longer be selling ATN.

>I think his interest in the ATN anchor's appearance ("ballsack
>with a toupe" lolol) is indicative of exactly that - that he
>will no longer be selling ATN.

I took it as part of Logan's overall boredom and emptiness and bitterness, but this makes more sense

>>I think his interest in the ATN anchor's appearance
>("ballsack
>>with a toupe" lolol) is indicative of exactly that - that he
>>will no longer be selling ATN.
>
>I took it as part of Logan's overall boredom and emptiness and
>bitterness, but this makes more sense


Totally - the two aren't mutually exclusive IMO. He could be bored *and* pissed at his kids finally "beating" him, which could ultimately lead to his decision to back out of the sale. The only time he came alive all episode was during the post-agreement phone call when he called his kids fucking morons.

I don't know what the kid's % of the ATN sale will be but i assumed a couple billion each?

they didn't seem to have a grasp on how high they could go on the bid, and wound up going 4 billion over Logan's offer.

this doesn't seem like a good investment. the Hundred thing looked like a likely flop too but I didn't get the sense they were dropping everything they had on it.

and yeah, Logan can easily out petty them by stopping the ATN sale if he wants to play.

these kids are dumb.

They were hitting everything that people like, felt a bit forced. Overall definitely felt like an episode that was setting the table which is kind of cool to get out of the way now.

It's amazing how unsure you're left feeling about everything at every moment in this show.

I'm still saying Greg "wins" it all at the end.

This show works when it realizes it's a comedy. Less heart-rending, exquisitely-acted scenes with Tom and Shiv going full WASP aristocrat on their marriage and more of Roman saying ridiculous nonsense like "bespoke information hub" or Greg saying he doesn't want to see what happens at Guantanamo please.

You're out of your damn mind. This episode was fucking hilarious.

- opening scene w/the investor and the kids "towering economic genius" or whatever Roman said
- "tell me a joke" scene
- diner scene (that scene also had its heavy moments I'll grant you that, but the opening convo w/Colin was funny as fuck)
- "hmm what comes after 9 ... 9B ?!
- Tom/Greg discussing Bridget's bag
- Tom convincing Greg to tell Logan about his tryst
- Greg actually fucking doing it, and his report back to Tom
- Greg's 1st *attempt* to tell Logan
- Kerri's opening convo w/Greg about Bridget

There were more funny moments I can't recall right now as well. Did we watch the same episode ?! The more I think about this the more baffled I am by your complaint lol. I think the Tom/Shiv scene is the only scene in the whole episode that was absent any humor - all the others were littered with laugh-out-loud moments, per usual. You're complaining about a single scene.

Speaking of, the Tom/Shiv scene was *excellent*. The guy who plays Tom (forgetting his real name) is a fucking *superb* actor. He can go from fall-down hysterical to I-nearly-cried heartbreaking seamlessly. The looks on his face, and his voice quivering, during that scene with Shiv were tough to watch. Shiv was great too, for the record. But Tom just makes you feel so fucking *sad* for him.

This episode was borderline perfect.

And I've said "ludicrously capacious bag" like four times since Sunday.

Point well made. I agree.

I guess all I can say in defense of my error is that I think Kendall is the richest comedic vein in the show and he was largely absent from the very sound and true list of strong jokes you've made. He's usually been my guide for when the show decides to be funny, largely based on my own (probably very late) realization this was a comedy - the season two premiere when he spends a bunch of the episode being driven around on the back of a motorcycle like a 12 year old.

But yeah, you're right.

>And I've said "ludicrously capacious bag" like four times
>since Sunday.
>
>Point well made. I agree.
>
>I guess all I can say in defense of my error is that I think
>Kendall is the richest comedic vein in the show and he was
>largely absent from the very sound and true list of strong
>jokes you've made. He's usually been my guide for when the
>show decides to be funny, largely based on my own (probably
>very late) realization this was a comedy - the season two
>premiere when he spends a bunch of the episode being driven
>around on the back of a motorcycle like a 12 year old.
>
>But yeah, you're right.

LOL thinking back on that episode you're right, his riding on the back of a bike like a child is hysterical.

Anyway, happy that you've "seen the light" about this episode's hilarity haha. After I wrote my first response I thought of "scrotum in a toupee," "did you rummage to fruition ?" and Greg and Connor's 1% discussion. I can't wait to watch again.

I'll also be looking for clues about what's to come. I have a feeling Tom and Greg are cooking something, the more I think about how the bidding war began (Tom's first call to Shiv about Naomi Pierce, Greg's date). I don't want to be conspiratorial since this is a show that, generally speaking, puts its cards right on the table. But I think they showed just enough to maintain the integrity of the show while giving me/us something to consider going forward.

>and Greg and Connor's 1% discussion.

Greg is the perfect character to ask if you can go below 1% in national polling. although I agree with Walleye in the sense that it was missing that extra touch from Kendall and Logan (neither of whom were funny this episode) to round it out.

>although I agree with Walleye in the sense that it was missing that extra touch from Kendall and Logan (neither of whom were funny this episode) to round it out.

Ken:
- "Romey Romey Romey !"
- "I've smoked horse I need that extra ..." (forget exact quote but something like that)
- all his comments about The Hundred being like X major publication/being a hub or whatever bullshit he spews

A lot of Ken's humor was typically unintentional but that's what's always funny about him IMO.


Logan:
- the aforementioned "tell me a joke" scene
- the aforementioned diner scene
- there was one other comment/scene when he cracked me up but I'll have to come back, can't remember off the top

IMO this episode hit all the right notes, and each character was vintage while the story still moved along. All subjective tho, of course.

Roman's warped ill timed sense of humor normally being present

somehow Greg's description of Logan's reaction to him telling him about his "date" was more golden than us actually seeing it lol.

I just read that scene as one piece of his overall boredom because he's getting everything he wants and no one's there to challenge him anymore. But that specific scene could definitely be the "where's Roman" part of the bigger picture "I'm fucking bored out of my mind why isn't anything going wrong/anyone busting my ass" thing he's got going on lol

I forgot what exactly he said but seemed like he was bringing up the d pic thing lol

I believe it was "receive any interesting pictures lately ?" hahahaha. I died.

To be clear, you're definitely right.

They're making it seem like he stands up to him on the next episode but I don't know.

Roman also is starting to seem the like the most well-adjusted of the siblings, at least of the ones with the same mom lol

Kendall could've been that guy at this point, but he's far too interested in being seen as "cool" and "cutting edge"-- and he's far too obsessed with fucking over his dad at this point. Last night made that abundantly clear-- he's happy to burn the whole thing down and fuck everyone over if it means he gets to smile while his dad suffers.

Shiv is convinced she's the smartest one in the room at all times, which makes her, of course, an idiot. At least Kendall is fucking up this deal because he wants to fuck up the deal. Shiv has been sold a bag of goods, was told directly by both Roman and Logan that this will fuck up the deal, but she refuses to accept it's possible because that would mean she might be wrong.

Connor is pure fucking evil, undiluted, uncut. But he's also a boob.

Roman is clearly, when it comes to business, the best Roy kid. He seems to actually have a knack for what will work in business. He doesn't give a fuck about being liked by anyone other than his dad. He was right to not get involved with Pierce, he was right that this deal will get fucked up, he's been right more than he's been wrong. He certainly had his fuck ups and self-sabotage moments at the beginning when he thought "no one is going to ever take me seriously anyway," but he's displayed more acumen than any of the others.

He just, y'know, needs Daddy to say "I love you" way worse than the others do, lol. Which will always fuck him when it comes to stuff involving Logan.

I don't know that I'd call Roman "well-adjusted"-- his personal life hang-ups are very, very tough to watch, they've just taken a backseat on the show for a season or two now, lol-- but in terms of business sense, he's just so clearly the heir to the throne if Logan actually had any inclination to hand his business to one of his kids.

Roman might not be well-adjusted just that for business things he's the most clear headed one. He definitely still has big social issues are still so weird but I think he ends up getting farther than the rest of them. I think you explained it right.

I'm confused why Kendall wasn't into asking for more until he KNEW it would actually mess up the deal. It seems like he should have been with it from when it first comes up.

>I'm confused why Kendall wasn't into asking for more until he
>KNEW it would actually mess up the deal. It seems like he
>should have been with it from when it first comes up.

I could be wrong but didn't they say this is over an extra hundred million? which is nothing considering the way they went up to 10 billion last week and treated half a billion like a rounding error.

Matson give the impression that he legit has no problem walking away from this deal. if that happens, the Pierce thing is done for them.

but i guess it plays into Logan's tirade about how they aren't serious people.

Especially why Kendall is now down but I just don't understand why he wasn't down from the jump.

He isn't doing it for the money, he's doing it because it will mess up Logan's plan but then shouldn't he had wanted to do it before Matson told him he would walk?

When he told them they weren't serious people you could feel their hurt lol he knows how to get to them.

I was waiting for his assistant/gf/whatever to blow up on him. Curious to see how that plays out. Could end up in the kids favor.

Shiv and Kendall are too high on this brief moment of having some power over Logan to see it.

If they "win" and get more money, it's still a pretty minor victory. it doesn't seem worth the risk at all. They don't get Pierce, but it seems that whole thing was just another way to say they beat dad.

such fucking dopes (c)

>I'm confused why Kendall wasn't into asking for more until he
>KNEW it would actually mess up the deal. It seems like he
>should have been with it from when it first comes up.

He even said about as much last episode. He needs the excitement cuz he used to smoke horse lol.

That said, he doesn't *think* of the decision to ask for more as self sabotage. He sees blood in the water cuz of the call w/Mattson. But obviously those of us watching know a trainwreck is inevitable.

the other Roy kids are completely delusional in how they perceive themselves or in how believe they're perceived by others.

Roman's pretty aware of how he's seen and if anything sells himself short. he's the most openly emotional and sensitive to when his family members are suffering.

he's also a petty pompous piece of shit. he threatened to destroy the helicopter lady's life for doing her job. it reminded me of that early season 2 scene where he taunted that kid with the million dollar check and tore it up in front of him.

Honestly that scene with him tearing up the check almost made me stop watching lol That hit a nerve.

>he's also a petty pompous piece of shit. he threatened to
>destroy the helicopter lady's life for doing her job. it
>reminded me of that early season 2 scene where he taunted that
>kid with the million dollar check and tore it up in front of
>him.

All 3 posts above are on point.

>I don't know that I'd call Roman "well-adjusted"-- his
>personal life hang-ups are very, very tough to watch, they've
>just taken a backseat on the show for a season or two now

>Roman also is starting to seem the like the most well-adjusted of the siblings, at least of the ones with the same mom lol

You should've stuck with "of the siblings" lol Connor ain't well-adjusted at all, either.

Anyway yea I agree - Roman is emotionally grounded to some extent, he's always the one worried about the other siblings, asking "you ok man?" and things of the like. They're all stunted in major ways and he's no exception but at the very least he seems to have empathy, which the others sorely lack.

tape?

How did the kids get it? Saying Gerri because Logan caught her and Hugo laughing at it, and he specifically said not to invite her to the next meeting.

also, all the Kerry stuff in this episode was amazing lol

"Viking Funeral" and a bunch of other comments he made to her about already working for the other team.

But yea this is an interesting theory.


>tape?
>
>How did the kids get it? Saying Gerri because Logan caught her
>and Hugo laughing at it, and he specifically said not to
>invite her to the next meeting.
>
>also, all the Kerry stuff in this episode was amazing lol

Yes Kerry is great. The "human string cheese" line was incredible.

This show always knocks these things out of the park and did it one more time. From Roman's rubbing of Connor to Kendall's Buddhist musings to the fucking karaoke. Christ.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Read that somewhere over the weekend and it made me laugh.

That said, yall really did make me realize that Roman really is the smartest one.



*************************************

Fuck aliens

-Warriorpoet415

#2dopebrothersandastackofwax

https://www.instagram.com/bobgeorge87

https://www.instagram.com/thirtythree.three/

You think you’re in for the barnburner awkward wedding to end all awkward weddings, and you get… this. Offscreen at that. Set up one narrative and expertly hijack it.

Great episode.

What we got was a a twist of epic proportions, so I’m mot complaining.

Balsy move IMO, and I hope this turns into a bloody knife fight battle royale.

All sides considered, I want to see Tom win it and fuck the Roy kids in the process, while Greg either gets a fat inheritance from Logan, or a a cushy position in the company due to Tom’s victory.

Not that I care about any of these awful people.

But that’s probably my favorite of the possible outcomes I can see at the moment.

I mean, it makes sense, but when and how was completely aces. Having the kids trapped was genius.

Poor Connor though. His last shot was so sad...

>I mean, it makes sense, but when and how was completely aces.
>Having the kids trapped was genius.
>
>Poor Connor though. His last shot was so sad...

they mention twice that Logan had Connor's mom admitted to a mental hospital in that episode, Connor doesn't wilt when he learns that Logan died, and he gets married with a smile on his face at the end. He's at peace with Logan passing and grateful for Willa.

he's the least involved and the most content by the end of episode 4

(and had no intention to)
that's why his immediate reaction was 'he never loved me'

but i agree he fared better than the others. i also thought his honest exchange with Willa was pretty great.

even with that sad turnout at the wedding, Connor had a better day than most.

I thought if they did this it would be mid season at best

It took a set to do this so early

Always tough to nail something like this and they fucking nailed it.

For all the grief he gets and deserves, Ken was the Roy kid who handled everything best. What performances by all the actors involved.

I know they will nail it in these last 7, but it's almost too bad they already decided this is the final season. While Logan would and will be sorely missed no matter how long they continue on for, the upcoming battles for power are going to be fucking *electric*. They could do this for 5 more seasons.

This is gonna be fun.

I take back any doubts I had of episode 1.

I got home late last night so didn't get to see. Saw an article this morning on Vulture and I was confused clicked on it but it was paywalled so I just went back. Totally forgot I was no longer caught up. Saw another one about the cast being surprised about the big development and that's when it clicked that I missed last nights episode lol

I caught it on my phone in bits and pieces this morning but I will definitely rewatch tonight. I don't remember the last time it felt like there was a must watch episode (of any TV show) that actually delivered.

Very interested in how this changes people. I think we will finally get to see what everyone is really like/after and the preview for next week definitely teases that.


On a lighter note I loved the whole "don't turn me into a word, I'm a person".

>I know they will nail it in these last 7, but it's almost too
>bad they already decided this is the final season. While Logan
>would and will be sorely missed no matter how long they
>continue on for, the upcoming battles for power are going to
>be fucking *electric*. They could do this for 5 more seasons.

the show is called "Succession", and ending it now seems right. TV shows get stale when there is nothing propelling a change to the characters, and I cannot imagine any future plots that will compare to the kids versus their father.

I'm just saying I think the acting and the writing is so good that there's a world where they *could* have ridden the forthcoming battle for power and the fallout from all of this for another 2 or 3 seasons.

But I agree, it's tidier and will likely ultimately be the best decision to wrap it up now. I just don't want to leave this world ever haha.

We obviously don't know where this ends yet but there's always the potential for spinoffs. I think I'm going to hold off on saying we should get one until we see where things go.

the abruptness of it, the messiness of the reactions/emotions, mixed with the maneuvering and looking ahead.

re-watching it now. the first time, it was just an experience. the second time i'm just appreciating the execution

this is fucking masterful.

No hallmark bs


>the abruptness of it, the messiness of the
>reactions/emotions, mixed with the maneuvering and looking
>ahead.
>
>re-watching it now. the first time, it was just an experience.
>the second time i'm just appreciating the execution
>
>this is fucking masterful.

n/m

Logan off camera, no grand "final words," the madness of finding out at an inopportune time.

Just so real, so so so well executed by everyone.

this is elite television...I don't watch as much "prestige" TV as others but I can't recall a show feeling like a documentary like this really ever. Even Sopranos which was probably my favorite show, it still always felt like "wow, Gandolfini is fuckin ON tonight!" rather than just being a fly on the wall in Satriale's back room.

But Succession is a different animal altogether.

I think Jeremy Strong is really one of the best actors I've ever seen. It sounds like his "method" acting wore itself thin on the set , but it's hard to deny the results. What he's put on film from the Italian villa confession to the Logan death phone call on the boat is Mahomes-ian; in other words, there's elite and then even above that is another tier of performance.

Knowing what we know now, I think the episode 3 scene in the karaoke room is especially profound. Logan meant what he said. He loves them, but they're not equipped for real life... "you're not serious people" And, again, the only pragmatic child is Roman who again gets bulldozed by his hothead siblings. Roman is NOT motivated by "fuck Dad" like Shiv and Kendal.

Logan chose Roman. He chose Roman by saying "I need you" about ATN, and he put Roman through one final trial by firing Geri. Roman firing Geri 1) proves Roman can be the killer Logan needs him to be and 2) unburdens Roman from his weird mommy complex , which to Logan is Roman's only red flag. Logan is telling us here at the very end that he thinks all the other kids are shitheads but when he says to Roman "I need you" he means it.

I think/hope the rest of the season sees Roman coming to terms with taking the mantle, navigating Madsen and the election figuring out how he can leverage Geri to get where he wants to go. I never feel like Roman is "playing business person" like Shiv and Kendall are.

I wouldn't have watched the last ep again if my wife had watched it for the first time with me lol. So I ended up watching it a 2nd time by default, but I would've been fine if I hadn't. That was an emotional fucking ride.

Not at all saying anything about the quality. When I first watched it I was glued to it. As I mentioned I already thought he might have died yet I didn't know how and if he really did so it felt like I didn't know at all.

I think I convinced myself that Gerri getting fired was the twist lol The was already super tense. Then when Tom calls Roman I was just in shock. It felt like breaking news or even real life. The whole question of is he actually gone is so real. Roman even went from logical and accepting it to outright borderline delusional insisting that they didn't ACTUALLY know yet.

I think in the second watch I paid more attention to everything else that happened. There were so many things we would typically be talking about but Logan just sucked all the attention lol

What are the odds Kerry was actually high and that maybe Logan took some too before? I know it could just be shock that explains how she was behaving but that was super weird.

The performances were so amazing that you actually *felt* their emotions and pain in the moment.

Repeat viewing is tough but like you mentioned you can pick up on some other nuance on repeated viewings. Per usual with this show.


>What are the odds Kerry was actually high and that maybe Logan
>took some too before? I know it could just be shock that
>explains how she was behaving but that was super weird.

I assumed they were fucking or she was blowing him or something. On 2nd watch I noticed her fixing her belt as she walked in. Maybe reading too much into it either way tho.

which would rule out her being in there with him... but that was second hand and we don't know for sure.

i didn't consider her giving him a little something as a possibility, but given they're off to meet Matson with his staff in tow, it's hard to see Logan taking that chance. She could have just done it after to cope.

Maybe they just didn't want to mention the part about Kerry ? But yea, you right.

literally the whole hour was a classic one-liner

Tom and Greg pleading with anyone they can find ("Long live the king!")

Shiv pregnant (almost a footnote, really)

Marcia coming back with the nuclear codes

but the story of the episode was Kendall -- the killer is back

throwing dirt on dad's grave was exactly what Logan would do in that situation, and that smirk at Hugo knowing he had him by the balls with possible insider trading was Waystar CEO material for sure

Women took Ls this whole episode. Marcia coming back is no accident - she’s the only female on the show with nuts as big as Logan’s - she spit shakes with Connor, that’s some dude shit to do.

Kari is a wreck, and she drops a bunch of feminine items. Shiv is hiding her pregnancy, gets cucked for the CEO-ship again, then falls face first in a room full of arrogant men.

Shiv can’t even get considered for the spot, but all fuckup Kendall has to say to Stewie is “cmon bro” and he’s in? What a cruel spot these women find themselves in…be TOO forward and risk being torn apart (Kari as a failed ATN anchor, Geri getting lol’d for CEO) , or play by the rules and inevitably get bulldozed anyway.

deal got pushed through, she has inside dirt on Mattson and she saved her c-suite ladies (Gerri, Karolina)

She'll inevitably get played in the next ep, somehow lol.

had to, since Tom looked like a desperate moron at the retreat

"how is Tom not on the list" (c)

What a great character and what a great comeback. I wonder what's in store for her the rest of the way. It's always felt like she was being set up for something sinister.

Just between Kerry's comment that Marcia's off shopping in Milan...forever, and the amount of smoke Marcia had for her just now, we get a good idea of the off camera dynamic between them.

When Ken made that comment when he told him to throw dirt on Logan I forgot it was a reference to their earlier conversation about the stock lol I thought it was a random thing for Ken to say at first lol

what say you?

... then again, what would be his reasoning for underlining it ? The only reason to go back to the document would be to amend it, not to reiterate what it already says haha.

but underline doesn't make much sense.

>what say you?

That shot was crossed out. After he did all those trifling overthrows?

(c) Sheeeeit

Kendall pondering that strikethrough-underline in the bathroom of his dad's place, where he had his meltdown in the very first episode (or one of the bathrooms there), was full circle shit

"you make your own reality" (c) Logan Roy

Listen to yourself talk, Roman. Damn!


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

One of the more beautiful...straight razor tightrope walks this show has done is portraying Tom's abuse of Greg as Office-esque workplace comedy.


That ear flick of Shiv was just pure malice though. In a fully abstract sense, it vaguely reminded me of '70s New Hollywood in a "real" way, because as we all know as much as entertainment has pivoted away from those sorts of relationship conflicts...but it sure was stunning.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Are they still tanking the deal?
Was the new offer too good that they’re now accepting it?
Are we supposed to not know yet what the brothers are going to do?

Episode was great but the ending confused me. It seemed like they were taking the deal but they had just said they were going to tank it. I'm guessing they figured they weren't going to be offered more and that changed their mind but still seems weird.

Seeing them miss Logan during this process hit hard. I was hoping he would somehow show up to put Lukas in his place lol Roman going off was great.

The ear flick by Tom was definitely weird but looks like they are now going to give it another shot after teasing it for a couple episodes.

It seemed like all the siblings leveled up in this episode lol

all thick and chewy

they “go together” now.. lol

Tom had some pep in his step when he was next to Logan, now Tom is desperate and Shiv loves that shit.

Just unsatisfied with how they got cucked by Matsson, even if they ultimately got some more money out of it. Still seen as a loss, in that world.

even trying to tank it without the board's permission is illegal

Mattson saw through their attempt and just upped his price in return, which he knows the board will approve

Shiv was fine with him taking ATN so that is why he asked her for a picture of her brothers, knowing their hands are tied

the big thing is that Shiv has the info Mattson's blood-sending mess and could spin that in the future, maybe get shareholders to lose confidence in Mattson running Waystar and him forced to sell back to the family

>the big thing is that Shiv has the info Mattson's
>blood-sending mess and could spin that in the future, maybe
>get shareholders to lose confidence in Mattson running Waystar
>and him forced to sell back to the family

Zero chance the writers are gonna just downgrade her to supporting role the remainder of the series. All 3 of them are gonna have a plan for running the show solo by finale time.

That puts her ahead of her brothers already in some ways. She was able to influence which EVPs got to stay and who will get the axe, for example.

i re-watched the scene where her and Ebba meet because i was kinda confused by their interaction.

Karolina says, "you look well, very refreshed", Ebba responds uncomfortably, then Karolina gives her a 'that's right, bitch' look before walking away.

Karolina is not on the kill list.

because of what that werdo was doing

and since her and Karolina have the same job, she was just side eying her out of competition

If the board approves the sale, the CE-Bros have a fiduciary responsibility to go forward with it or they'd be voted out and/or it might be a SEC violation.

That's why they needed the deal tanking to come from Matsson.

Instead of delivering the news to the CE Bros from the Hanna Barbera school of business.


Some absolute bangers in this episode too. My god what a writers room

lol amazing.

their hustle game was really cringe too.. these darn studios... oh it's nothing, we're just trying to be honest, bro.

The old guard has been especially hilarious since Logan’s death.

Especially Karl ..
“Hanging in the window like Peking duck.”

Amazing either way, you're right.

The gloves are off for frank, Karl, and Gerri.

Lol

Something about his looks just makes everything he says and does hilarious. Like he knows he's expendable and that makes him both uncomfortable and comfortable at the same time.

Just said to my friend last nite that this is possibly the most well-casted show in TV history. Not a single weak link even with periphery characters.

like being on another planet

these billoinairres..geezus what a life

Especially the background for the Matsson and Kendall/Roman meetup

“It ain’t even fun no more. I’m jaded” - Hov

that would be interesting

if he wanted Shiv to help push thru the deal all he had to do was ask. He gains nothing by fabricating a weird story. It doesn't endear him, and Shiv doesn't need to feel like she has something "on him" to play along to make the deal happen.

I think people just want him to be some super genius, but I think it's pretty straight forward. Maybe there's a twist, but the twist is he played the boys - while still being the weirdo he's always been portrayed to be.

I just wouldn't be so sure that he wasn't trying to gain an edge on her/trying to find a way to make her feel like she's in control to drive a wedge further between her and the brothers, something like that.

I don't think he's a genius either I'm just saying it's possible that he made it up.

All that said, he could've made up a slightly less fucked up story I suppose haha.

there wasn't a male in this episode who looked smart or noble. Not a one.

Kendall wants to burn it down just, like, cause he wants to bro. His narcissism knows no limits.

Having scaled the top of the mountain , Roman let his emotion get the better of him and "fucked the deal".

Frank and Karl continue to bumble. They serve no purpose and don't even mind being let go because they know they're paid. They're old, white, and content to cash out and not ride coattails any longer. Tom and Greg will inherit the dipshit duo mantle, rinse wash repeat.

and then there's Matsson, a Musk-ian madman who's so entitled he can't comprehend how disturbing his behavior is.

Contrast Shiv in this episode with Shiv at the mourning gathering. Then, she feebly accepted her third banana faux CEO-ship. She's pregnant and hellbent on hiding it. She takes a mean spill in the living room surrounded by all the king's men. Marcia looms, a true alpha, intimidated by none of the men and certainly none of the women in the home.

But now, for the first distinguishable time in the show's history, Shiv demonstrates a true cunning. There's no bravado, just brains ("first off, good one!" she tells Madsen after the blood reveal...padding the ego just a wee bit to couch her message) Then, having calmly evolved into the matriarch, she saves Karolina, Geri, and Tom - and by saving Tom, in turn saves her child.

This is just beautiful writing.

There's been so many times in this show's run where I come out of an episode and just think "how did they write that?" and I don't think I've ever felt that in a bigger way than I did here.

>Kendall wants to burn it down just, like, cause he wants to
>bro. His narcissism knows no limits.

I'll push back on this just a *little* to say that I think he wanted to "burn it down" not "just, like, cause he wants to bro" (which made me lol, tho) but because he's always wanted to run Waystar, in his bones. I think that is ultimately the driving force behind him contemplating tanking the deal. As misguided and stupid as that is/would be, I think he ultimately has it in his mind that he wants to remain the top dogg because that's what he's *always* wanted.

But to your point, he's also very self-destructive so like I said, having a "reason" to torch the deal doesn't automatically make it a *good* reason.

as CE-Bros

it's been one fucking day lol, and as Shiv pointed out, the stock price is only half back up because of the sale.

https://preview.redd.it/4lrq4yfxswva1.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=55a439fe3a69789065fe5614fcc946fb3e62b5cb

this is my favorite episode of the season, not the best, but probably the most rewatchabe. So many little amazing moments.

like the Boar on the Floor guy (i forget his name), laughing like crazy at the above joke he definitely doesn't understand.

the same guy putting his pastry on Hugo's plate right before that Mattson guy walks up to him saying "whoa, save some for us"

all things Hugo really.

Roman sticking his finger in caviar

Roman's full meltdown felt so genuine.

Just the way Mattson is completely alpha-dogging these guys, who are proving Logan's point that they aren't serious people.

and Lukas was right. Logan would be ashamed of how easly he got these two all up in their feelings. and proably proud of Shiv who shined in this ep, and even managed to accept and not do coke with seeming ease.

Show is so goddamn funny lol.
Such smart writing.
They've had Greg & Tom nailed down as characters since the first episode.

He’s such a vile piece of shit. Most of them are, once we get beyond how entertaining they all are, but Roman is particularly awful because he actively enjoys watching the people beneath him suffer. I enjoy watching someone bully him when he can’t *really*

Going all the way back to that first episode baseball game, I’ve wanted to see him hurt in some way. Frankly, this isn’t enough pain for me, but it’s something. He’s not quite Ramsay Bolton, but he has that DNA and for this world he isn’t terribly far off.

I enjoy Tom’s stint at mortality, though it’s pretty clear Shiv protected him there. I hope she holds that over his head, reminding him that he still only has his spot because of her, and won’t if or when she changes her mind.

He basically confirmed the picture Kendall and Roman were trying to paint about him.

*everyone stares at Kendall*

he had me dying the entire episode

we finally got the "Ken" episode of this season, with him going full Kendall the entire hour -- man is addicted to toeing the razor edge of chaos (chaos which is mostly self-created) and seeing if he can come out on top

this time he did

also, the Shiv-Tom stuff was amazingly well-done and we got to see (maybe for the first time?) -- what drew those two together

Tom explaining his betrayal in the most pragmatic of terms -- "I was afraid of being squeezed out by you or your dad, and I love my wealth, and so do you" -- was oddly touching

left me feeling anxious which I don't like lol

I don't know if Roman is coming into his own and finally starting to have confidence or if he's about to self-destruct. The Joy firing was maybe the former but with Gerri considering everything that's happened hard to say that was a good way to handle it.

They're definitely making Shiv look like the smartest one in the last two episodes.

It was slick of Ken to leave the numbers up to the video and Karl.

yeah i could see Logan impulsively firing Joy (on some "fuck off!") if she patronized him the way she did Roman, but as Gerri said, he's not Logan.

He pretty much fired both of them for the same reason in saying he's not as good his dad. And with the exception to the one he accidentally sent to his dad, i'm sure Gerri has plenty of Roman's dick pics. Not a smart move.

>I don't know if Roman is coming into his own and finally
>starting to have confidence or if he's about to self-destruct.
>The Joy firing was maybe the former but with Gerri considering
>everything that's happened hard to say that was a good way to
>handle it.

You know he's got that dog in him being with Logan for all those years. He's fine being Mr Friendly until it's time to be a killer

Karl, Frank and Gerri took a lot of shit from Logan but he wouldn't have kept them around this long if they didn't have value

Gerri schooling Roman is another perfect example (yeah, fire the corporate lawyer after you sexually harass her for a couple of years)

... behind the scenes, now that I think about it. Their situations are too similar. But it'd be out of character for this show to have something like that pop up without sprinkling some easter eggs (Ebba and Gerri in the background of the tailgate party having a convo in plain sight, or something like that) first.


>Gerri schooling Roman is another perfect example (yeah, fire
>the corporate lawyer after you sexually harass her for a
>couple of years)

hilarious to see Kendall be self-absorbed by his father's sleights, yet consistently be such a shitty dad himself -- blaming his kids' mother and trying to rationalize his psychotic selfishness as "all for them"

so Mattson's blood bags were a red herring, but he has bigger problems

Roman is Fucked with a capital letter; like Nick said to Kendall, "I'm not Gil and you're not Logan" -- Roman especially is cosplaying as his dad and it is going to shit because he doesn't have the acumen, history or respect

the Tom and Shiv balcony scene was so raw and cutting, well-done

with no alliances left, Tom has another surprise I think -- starting with election day

Genuine question. I feel like I've missed something important based on both your responses haha.

Edit: now I'm thinking you guys may be referencing a surprise alliance w/Nate ?

So obvious, my bad.

Which is *really* saying something. I was howling at every line.

I think so. When Ken said “tell ‘em their guns will turn into ladies” or something like that to get the Repubs riled up I fuckin lost it 😂

“I’ll work on the libtards, you talk to the Nazis…”

“Fuck Tom”

I’m gonna be watching this again soon.

When he said all for them I thought that's it he's gone full Logan lol

I'm still confused with how quick Mattson and the girl are so quick to give up information.

As soon as Tom stepped out on the balcony I thought he was done. Figured he might just jump lol That scene was brutal.

>I'm still confused with how quick Mattson and the girl are so
>quick to give up information.

A bit of laziness by the writers. The whole phony subscriber reveal felt a little clunky and unbelievable.

Partially because they did set up that those two people have bad, uh, blood between them.

But also because we ultimately only have the Roy perspective of that relationship, and the show is ending VERY soon. So, sure, there’s not the depth/nuance to it you might want, but it’s not like Ebba is treated like a girlfriend one episode then emotionally abused the next. That’s how we meet her.

Also, during that party we do see her and Mattson hanging casually before and after the big show, so it could all prove to be some whackadoo theater. Even India.

I hate that true crime and Marvel has turned most people into true detectives so I’m not trying to get clever points here, but I think at the very least this show has proven to care about its details enough that, at least for me, I bought that she either felt disrespected enough to casually share some shit (especially adding weed and alcohol to the decision making) or, comms director that she is, made a play we don’t know the result of yet.

Either way, again, the show has enough of a track record I think “lazy” is far from appropriate.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>Also, during that party we do see her and Mattson hanging
>casually before and after the big show, so it could all prove
>to be some whackadoo theater. Even India.
>
>I hate that true crime and Marvel has turned most people into
>true detectives so I’m not trying to get clever points here,
>but I think at the very least this show has proven to care
>about its details enough that, at least for me, I bought that
>she either felt disrespected enough to casually share some
>shit (especially adding weed and alcohol to the decision
>making) or, comms director that she is, made a play we don’t
>know the result of yet.
>
>Either way, again, the show has enough of a track record I
>think “lazy” is far from appropriate.

All of this.

Where I can, more or less, totally understand that this or that detail feels like it demands to be nitpicked. Hell, I totally WAS that dude for some of Breaking Bad's finer points (and found El Camino kind of dull as a result). So I'm not nearly in the mood to say it's WRONG to think Mattson's (potential) heel turn is abrupt. And while I'll always be a stooge for every single episode of Mad Men, I totally understand people who find the "one big pitch/sale" roller coaster seasons 4-6 lean on feels like a show out of ideas, because not everybody prioritizes character over story the way I do.


Which is also all I meant with the "true detectives" snark; when a show that eggs that shit on comes along, I love lurking the reddit threads as much as anybody, but I'd hate if every show became, at their core, puzzle boxes like that.


I just don't like how common "lazy" has become in audience parlance, either. As a video game player - notably, not a "gamer" lol - I see that word get thrown at creative and talented people who accomplish things I have very little if any aptitude for all the time. Even if they ultimately put out a shit product, and I think it's shit...for me, it takes a lot more than "this happened a little fast for me" to feel like it's "lazy", right? There's only so much time to tell a story on this sort of scale (ie. production labor, writing labor, acting labor, etc.) And it just seems like a...lazy critique, especially when the dealer is still holding two cards from the river.


When it's all said and done, maybe this bit was sloppy or harried or whatever. But I don't think the show has done any of the "get us the fuck out of here" signaling the Game of Thrones staff did, from writers to cast to execution over multiple years.


In fact, I've started to think the whispers of five seasons had a lot of merit to them, until Armstrong and his team realized this WGA strike wasn't going to be solved swiftly and they decided to send this show out on top rather than hold it hostage, ironically, by contract negotiations.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>I just don't like how common "lazy" has become in audience
>parlance, either. As a video game player - notably, not a
>"gamer" lol - I see that word get thrown at creative and
>talented people who accomplish things I have very little if
>any aptitude for all the time. Even if they ultimately put out
>a shit product, and I think it's shit...for me, it takes a lot
>more than "this happened a little fast for me" to feel like
>it's "lazy", right? There's only so much time to tell a story
>on this sort of scale (ie. production labor, writing labor,
>acting labor, etc.) And it just seems like a...lazy critique,
>especially when the dealer is still holding two cards from the
>river.
>
>
>When it's all said and done, maybe this bit was sloppy or
>harried or whatever. But I don't think the show has done any
>of the "get us the fuck out of here" signaling the Game of
>Thrones staff did, from writers to cast to execution over
>multiple years.

Especially with all of this. At least let the season play out before you toss out that critique. And even then, I agree, it's a little disingenuous. I'd prefer "rushed" to "lazy." Or even "unrealistic;" although even that critique is annoying because, like, it's TV.

I remember having the "unrealistic" convo during the last few eps of BCS where some people were saying they preferred BB over BCS because BCS was too unbelievable. A few of us had to remind these folks about the trunk murders lolol.

Regarding your first paragraph about final seasons, I'm basically the exact same as you. I've tried to stop myself from having these insane theories or expectations because doing that with some shows in the past always left me disappointed with the finales, even when, in hindsight, I found that those finales were *excellent*. So I'd rather just enjoy the ride and suspend my expectations and predictions, to the extent that I'm able. I just have fun with the weekly banter about it, the weekly podcasts discussing the finer points (but with a positive spin), etc. It's really helped me to appreciate the art and the writers' vision way way way more.

I don't think it's a big deal but it does have me wondering if there is something else there.

I think Ebba trying to make a play would be a good enough explanation on her end.

>I don't think it's a big deal but it does have me wondering
>if there is something else there.
>
>I think Ebba trying to make a play would be a good enough
>explanation on her end.

I'd argue that it's not *likely*, but I think it's a possibility.

So that's really all I was responding to. Whether her leak "makes sense" or not won't be relevant until the show is over, personally. Though, to continue my "lazy" rant...

Film and TV people by and large remain far, far, far, far, far more reasonable than people who play video games, let alone Gamers, but even in my most amateur/early days as a critic I'd like to think (and, lol, cross my fingers somebody couldn't scrape the archive and prove me wrong) I can recognize when a writer, or musician, or whatever has to make a choice that's maybe "convenient" but still plausible vs. what I'd consider actually lazy, like plagiarism at the worst or at the...softest?

The way I recently heard someone react to the trailer for the Gran Turismo movie trailer: "If I were to ask you to write a movie about a kid whose parents think he plays video games too much until the game he plays the most turns out to be a career path, and it involves a lot of fast, fuckin' cool cars, and I assume that script just falls out of you involuntarily." Even then, if the characters get to say some cool shit and you get some Rush or Ford v. Ferrari car action, I couldn't call that "lazy", y'know?

Maybe I need to see a therapist about that word!

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

That Tom and Shiv scene was beyond brutal. And she STILL hasn't cracked that she's pregnant. I bet she keeps the child just out of spite to hold it over both Tom and her mother. This was a verbal version of 'bitey'. Who can say the worst (but true) thing to the other without letup? Both of them were right, but both of them ain't shit.

Shiv is fucked tying up with Mattsen (that numbers reveal was hilarious)
Roman is going to crack before the funeral and likely get fucked by Gerri (and not the way he wants)
Ken has a decent idea in buying out GoJo but he's an idiot and will absolutely fuck it up
Tom may well go scorched earth during the election coverage and fuck over everybody, even his Spiros, to keep his nice expensive things
Greg is just a fail up fuck up, but going in on him is like kicking a 3 legged puppy with rabies, so...

>Tom may well go scorched earth during the election coverage
>and fuck over everybody, even his Spiros, to keep his nice
>expensive things

My bad haha.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

i give that round to Tom though he was surgical af he had Shiv flailing

that window smile from Greg to Shiv... oh man lol

con head stuff is funny because we know he doesn’t wield any actual power.

The concession speech showed that it would actually be terrifying with him as president LOL

Also Willa is dope because she realizes Connor is unhinged.

Yet She knows her role and is absolutely the one you want on your pickup squad at the gym

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Dude legit thinking he was gonna win Kentucky lol

it's funny how for a couple weeks he was looking like the most reasonable stable Roy kid. didn't take much to go back to being the Connor we're used to

for all her apprehension, and side-eyeing, she's like... he's really right wing, but i do like the idea of having breakfast in vienna

Especially the "I'm torn" part. Argh.


>for all her apprehension, and side-eyeing, she's like... he's
>really right wing, but i do like the idea of having breakfast
>in vienna

Greg's got a huge chunk of coke stuck to his upper lip for a couple shots after the blast session, but it disappears in the last shot


You'd like to think Greg felt and gummed it, but more likely it just became a $10 bit of dirt on the floor.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

I've been voting long enough to feel pretty confident that voters aren't being swayed by any news coverage on any station regardless of affiliation THE DAY OF THE VOTE, so the way they seemed to frame ATN's election day coverage as capable of deciding the presidency was weird in the sense everybody seemed to believe their coverage would push the vote one way or the other.

It makes for some good character moments for everybody, but in my 34 years I don't think I've known anybody whose vote was undecided until they watched the news on election day.

Even ignoring that, and knowing for years this is a Fox/Murdoch skewer...most of this episode felt like a waste of time. Really enjoyable TV, hell of a bomb before the call giving each sibling an Emmy reel, but I have to say I found the A plot stakes of this episode a little convoluted.

Even though I was just ranting against fantasy booking a show last week, I have to admit this episode would've been more interesting if any of Ken, Tom or Greg were undermining the station's agenda. Again, I can't complain about the acting, direction or writing at all...but from the election to Kendall's kids, this episode, to me, felt like a parade of things the show had sidelined but wanted to address one more time, but because these characters ultimately have no skin in this game the drama felt toothless.

More than anything, this was probably the subplot I've cared least about throughout the show, so maybe I'm predisposed to being sour on it. Especially given the show is pretty much over, and how nuanced this season has been...unless I missed something, this kind of felt like filler, if I could pick one word to describe this whole post.

First episode since, dang, episode 2 or 3 of the first season I still really enjoyed but just didn't get the point of.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Don't get it twisted, they, all three, are absolute pieces of shit.

Now that's well been established, but I think they wanted to make it in as clear a terms as possible, even shiv with her self-righteous talk- when it came down to it, will help/not stop put a Nazi in white house if they get what they want, which is just more power.

None of this is new- but I think their intent was just to reset any false impressions of redeemability for any of them.

It seemed like they each had very selfish reasons for wanting one to win over the other. They didn't care so much about how it will impact the country just will it sink the deal or not???

I did feel this episode wasn't the best of the season. There was too much time spent on going back and forth on making the call or not. Probably would had worked better if this was part of a different episode instead of its own.

Shiv had been making some good moves then completely fumbled that fake call.

I'm thinking what comes out of this episode is the consequences from all the collusion they were doing. I doubt we get to see too much ahead. I don't think they spend a lot of time on whatever legal battles the election runs into or actually seeing him become president.

Who knows, maybe in the end this episode makes a ton of sense but for now it felt like unneeded additional confusion.

Roman seems to really be headed towards feeling himself too much, which I guess appropriate.

Tom is either completely broken with not believing Shiv or maybe we are seeing that he really did not care about her and it was all about securing his bag. I guess the coke could have had an impact on his reaction.

but the Seinfeld finale was hammering the point home that alot of the audience seemed to miss that its characters are awful people.

in this case it was more of a reminder. these moments where people show you exactly who they are. that they're very much the same garbage people they were in early season 1 despite how invested we may be in them. we always knew that but still...

In pointing out my own hypocrisy I was trying to highlight that most of my reaction to this episode was influenced by it being almost over, so whatever comes from it won’t get to marinate the way the rest of this season has felt, like, of a piece with the show as a whole rather than specifically cynical about a real life event (what if Fox hadn’t called Arizona for Biden, essentially)

I do think they struggled to make clear that ATN calling an election doesn’t mean the election is decided, though I could also argue it’s an attempt to seat the audience in the Roys’ delusion suite, but I didn’t hate it at all. Yet it felt, mostly, like an aside or detour compared to the rest of the season. Largely because whenever politics served as the venue for past episodes, no matter how explicit the Bernie references sometimes were the show seemed pretty disinterested what the outcome would be. So I struggled with an episode entirely dedicated to it, especially since, as you say, none of the characters did anything interesting with the situation.

Like I said earlier I’ve grown tired as hell of audiences impulse to “solve” shows, or even for every episode to “mean something” or “move the plot”. I totally enjoyed seeing these characters navigate this thing, but I’ve got to admit I was disappointed Tom seemed to regress to piloting comic interactions with Greg and otherwise being a puppet. I was hoping for something more interesting with him, especially given he met and fell in love with Shiv while she was buying her Democrat lobbyist bullshit. I felt like they could have built on the patio argument without outright making Tom “the hero”.


Acknowledging that I’m hedging my criticism, because it’s ultimately just a post on a weird little niche Roots fansite anyway, I’m mostly disappointed that on the cusp of the finale of one of my favorite shows ever, barring a huge reckoning next week (again - I’m being a huge hypocrite here!) I felt like I was watching a show teeter on the edge of parodying itself to tie off a C-level plot thread and antagonize viewers imagining redemption arcs.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

.. still great. Gotta watch again to catch everything.

Roman being the most asshole version of himself the entire time (which is saying a lot)

Kendall having his fake overwrought personal crisis then snapping out of it when he remembers "money and power!"

Shiv getting called out after her weak-ass election scheming and general panic

Tom and Greg being themselves, with just more coke

shit had it all

>Kendall having his fake overwrought personal crisis then
>snapping out of it when he remembers "money and power!"

.. so much as him being blinded by his anger @ Shiv.

I mean money and power obviously has a major part in it, but I thought his switch-flip was more Shiv-related.

... was one of the hardest laughs I've had in a while. I realize the show pretty rarely goes *that* broad with its comedic bits, but I'll be goddamned if I wasn't entertained.

You just knew the bodega sushi would have a part to play

he's nowhere close to being a titan like his dad, and he never will be but he at least owns being a nepo baby garbage human while the other kids are completely delusional about the type of people they are.

... even a hint of empathy to anyone in the immediate aftermath of his father's passing. To Kerry and a couple others.

Such dynamic characters.

like i wonder if he only gives any shit about Kerry's feelings if he doesn't think his dad would want him to.

he seems extra cruel to randos he doesn't see as real people, like the kid he taunts with a check or the helicoptor lady doing her job.

at times he seems like the most emotionally intelligent of the kids, but also the most cold and cruel.

but at least he doesn't have this pretense about being a good person ala Ken, or Shiv. i wouldn't say Conner necessarily thinks he's a "good" guy, he's just delusional in his own unique way lol.

Caroline is hilarious

1 episode left. Lame.


I've gotta hope after this writer's strike is over a decent portion of this room gets back together to scheme on something new.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

... full circle moment w/Ken and Roman ? In both S1 and this episode, Ken rounded up the troops for a run @ the throne. In S1 he failed cuz Roman didn't have the balls to vote his father out in the board meeting, in the infamous "should I or should I not raise my hand" moment.

Ken mentioned the board to Hugo in this episode when when he was discussing how they were gonna attack Shiv and Matsson. In S1 Roman waffled but ultimately agreed to back Ken, then didn't. Last nite, he waffled and never really confirmed that he'd have Ken's back.

I'm worried we are headed toward a kind of contrived moment in a board meeting where Roman waffles again but ultimately raises his hand to back Ken over Shiv, or something.

Either way, incredible episode. Ken has that look in his eye. What an incredible performance by Strong. He has full command of this character. I have so much more to say. I'll have to come back tho.

What is supposed to happen? Are they voting on a permanent CEO? They are also voting on the deal?

Seeing Roman break down was rough. As soon as he started talking I was cringing. Such contrast to his in the mirror speech.

Do you think Ken had a speech mostly prepared or was he freestyling. At some point it sounded like spoken word lol

Shiv got up to try to one-up him right? That was rough.

Ken definitely seems to keep getting better and better to take over as CEO. I don't know if the next episode is his final fall or his coronation.

Will Shiv finally win or are we going to see her get played again?

I loved this episode.

>What is supposed to happen? Are they voting on a permanent
>CEO? They are also voting on the deal?

I'm not entirely sure on next steps either but any major decision needs to go thru the board, so they'd have to vote on the GoJo acquisition as well as any changes at the top.


>Seeing Roman break down was rough. As soon as he started
>talking I was cringing. Such contrast to his in the mirror
>speech.
>
>Do you think Ken had a speech mostly prepared or was he
>freestyling. At some point it sounded like spoken word lol

Haha I think he freestyled. It was all bullshit nonsense but it was also compelling. Typical.

I was listening to the Prestige TV podcast and one of the hosts mentioned that the dueling eulogies (Ewan v Ken) might be pulled from Caesar and that Ken hammering the "ambition is good !" which riled up the crowd was 100% Caesar-based, because at the same time the world was about to collapse around them (echoed by the protests in the streets on Succession).


>Shiv got up to try to one-up him right? That was rough.

Hm I didn't see it that way at all. For all the infighting among Ken and Shiv, they always seem to be able to put it to the side when it comes to actual family issues. This, to me, was no different. She said to him "office ?" on the way up, almost looking for his blessing to tell that story. I didn't see her standing up to speak as a move, personally.


>Ken definitely seems to keep getting better and better to take
>over as CEO. I don't know if the next episode is his final
>fall or his coronation.
>
>Will Shiv finally win or are we going to see her get played
>again?
>
>I loved this episode.

We get to sit back and enjoy the fuckery

Mattson and Mencken are up to some shit.
“American CEO” probably gonna be Tom or some shit

I latched onto Matsson's choice of words there, too. Shiv's gonna get fucked.

>“American CEO” probably gonna be Tom or some shit

The pieces definitely seem to be falling into place for 'ol Icabod Crane but that would feel a little too outlandish.

.

They’re all gonna eat each other in the boardroom. If I was a betting man I’d put money on this. I really think the writers are gonna go for broke and do something fun/outlandish. Maybe Connor?

- Matsson gets Waystar with Shiv's. Roman ultimately siding with Shiv.
- Shiv doesn't get to be US CEO because of her pregnancy
- Greg becomes US CEO

.. certainly give credence to that possibility.

I forget who said this but I'd had the same thought - Greg had an outsized role in S1 E1, so you gotta wonder if him becoming top dogg (at least US top dogg) has been in play all along.

>I forget who said this but I'd had the same thought - Greg had
>an outsized role in S1 E1, so you gotta wonder if him becoming
>top dogg (at least US top dogg) has been in play all along.

It's *definitely* significant. But that doesn't mean he necessarily becomes the top dog. Maybe he becomes the new Tom.

>It's *definitely* significant. But that doesn't mean he necessarily becomes the top dog. Maybe he becomes the new Tom.

It’s a real possibility

anyway?

or was it just because Roman bitched out so bad at the funeral.

Mencken is a snake through and through. He was gonna play the shit out of Roman one way or another.

The boys' delusion that they could control him was the ultimate evidence of their un-seriousness.

... who has gracefully accepted condolences over his father's death ? It's subtle but everytime someone approaches him alone, or the kids collectively, he quite clearly says "thanks Greg," or "thanks (whoever)." I don't know if (or even necessarily think that) it means anything in the big picture, it's just something I've noticed throughout this season.

He's seemingly the only one (besides Connor, I suppose) who seems to be in full control of his emotions over it all, and his clear acceptance of condolences each step of the way may simply be an intentional indicator of that.

Her instant knowing Shiv was pregnant? And that super awkward few word conversation? Priceless.

'She was my Kerri'? I nearly fell out my chair laughing

"what about democracy?!"

these fucking people lol

Peter with that grade A cringe.

Also thinking about how bad Roman would have made fun of Roman. "The grim weeper" even sounds like some shit he would have said

>Also thinking about how bad Roman would have made fun of
>Roman. "The grim weeper" even sounds like some shit he would
>have said

"i do more for both our communities than you'll ever know." - Heinz
"But rest assured, in my luxurious house built on the backs of people darker than me, I am sipping fine scotch and scoffing at how stupid you are." - bshelly

episode had everything. perfectly wrapped up.

man Shiv w/ a pyrrhic victory for the ages right there

I thought the finale was good.

I felt so much tension thinking Ken was going to die, in the water, after drinking the meal for a king, jumping out of the building after the fight, jumping into the water at the end. I think they did a great job showing how unstable he is.

When they agreed to let him be CEO I was thinking that was fine. It would be a good way to end the show. When she changed her mind it hit and I think was even better.

I could see her stewing over finding out Tom was picked and seeing how she could benefit from that even more than Ken getting it. It also could simply be that she really was never sure about Ken getting it. Wouldn't be surprised if she made a play at being CEO still lol

Sad that all we got for Jess was the "new Jess" line but I get it lol

Like others have said, either way they were going be well off if they can deal with their egos and emotions.

We saw them all show how bad they are once again.

Seeing Greg hit Tom back was somewhat satisfying even if Greg is trash too lol

Definitely left me wanting more and thats fine.

Expert play on what everyone expects out of an HBO show

But still totally terrifying and I wouldn’t have been surprised if Roman’s eyes popped out

About as good an ending as you could hope for despite still feeling like another season would have plenty of meat on its bones.

I still wonder how much of the looming writers strike played into their idea to end it, to just not have to worry about getting the juice back after what’s looking like a super prolonged time off.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

that scene was intense! had a brief thought that we'd cut to the board meeting where they announce Bran Stark as the new CEO

while I liked the ending, also wouldn't have been mad if Daenerys came in with her dragons and burned down Waystar/Royco tower to the ground.

she 100% believes she absolutely will not. Just like she was the other 2 times

A lot of shows want to send off a couple buddies proper but this was, like, Parks & Rec levels of "we get these two people"


Stewie: I like weird sex, bad drugs - I'm a screwed up individual.

Kendall: Bullshit. You like pancakes and waffles, you kiss guys on molly. You're not Heart of Darkness, you're grilled cheese with a sucked dick.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>RE: Also, shoutout to Ken and Stewie's final exchange
>A lot of shows want to send off a couple buddies proper but
>this was, like, Parks & Rec levels of "we get these two
>people"
>
>
>Stewie: I like weird sex, bad drugs - I'm a screwed up
>individual.
>
>Kendall: Bullshit. You like pancakes and waffles, you kiss
>guys on molly. You're not Heart of Darkness, you're grilled
>cheese with a sucked dick.

the kids at their mom's house in Barbados was amazing in every way

just such a unique moment in the show and reminder that they are still siblings, with that glimmer of hope things might be alright before they all collapsed on themselves back in the real world

I'm all for sentimental touches in a finale, and that was another brilliant one

seeing the c-suite team be themselves and banter with Logan like friends

Connor mocking his dad playfully

Kerry holding his arm

adds more life to that scene when they are bargaining for Pierce and Logan berating them all to roast him or sing something

and the kids didn't seem to know anything about it. that he had at least a little more relationship with his dad than they (or we) were aware of.

not enough that he was considered as any kind of heir apparent, but he's got 15-20 years on his siblings, so he's known Logan's crew much longer and gets to sit at the grown-ups table.

among the funny things about that tantrum line is as Shiv pointed out, he's not the eldest boy.

but that whole scene highlighted how awful all three of them are. Shiv pulling out the "you killed someone" card, knowing full well it has nothing to do with her decision, Roman going full shitbird about Ken's kids, and 'the bloodline' (i knew Sophie was adopted, but i didn't know Iverson wasn't his seed either). Ken's pathetic desperate... nah, i just made it up, and if you don't give me this i'll die!

as broken as they are, they're all billionaires who will be fine. it's an amazing feat that this show can make us feel anything for these garbage people.

Roman’s disgust/defeat signing the deal in front of everyone and Ken walking out of the office a broken man was pretty powerful. L

she begs them to stay for dinner for family's sake, then uses the scant meal to have her new husband pitch a business deal

couldn't even give her beaten son eye drops because eyes "gross her out"

"go away" was a perfect last line for her

from what the captions caught, it appeared to be something about healthcare of elder care where they got over by cutting costs and giving people trash care.

also seemed implied that the other guy was on some kind of probation or parole, and needed to get back home soon lol

>also seemed implied that the other guy was on some kind of
>probation or parole, and needed to get back home soon lol

and it should be easy.
but even for these not-serious-people nepo babies, its still painfully easy for them to sus out bottom feeders like Peter's buddy.

Shiv underselling Tom to Matsson by saying he was competent but a pushover, inadvertently made a great pitch to make him the CEO.

Tom 'wins' with the CEO position...but how sustainable or long term could the role of 'pain sponge' be? If there was a season 5, Tom would be facing some major heat by episode 3 at the latest.

Kendal being told by his dad that he's not qualified to be CEO because he's not a killer, only to later be told by his sister that he's not qualified because he IS a killer, was a perfect cycle of irony. chef's kiss.


Where was Martha at the board meeting? She had a seat and the premiere episode was Logan trying to get the kids to sign papers that would give her two votes when he died. Did that no go thru? Did she give up her seats?

I appreciate how the show ends on a somewhat realistic note...none of the Roy kids really had much growth or reflection. The circumstances around them changed, they never really did.

They were all fascinating characters to follow, and it was a strange feeling to occasionally find myself rooting for things to work out or feel some empathy for them....but the anti-Capitalist in me was kind of hoping that they'd face a much more brutal ending...they're all broken, but will continue to be wealthy, cold and entitled.

when Cousin Craig was on screen, I knew I'd be entertained. Seeing interviews with the actor who plays him, his persona is not that far off from the character ...I feel like he may be typecast in that role forever....lots of future shows and movies will have a Cousin Craig character that's always stumbles into key moments of the story....I wouldn't be mad at that.

>Where was Martha at the board meeting? She had a seat and the
>premiere episode was Logan trying to get the kids to sign
>papers that would give her two votes when he died. Did that
>no go thru? Did she give up her seats?

the board members and "important signed documents" sort of always existed to serve the needs of the plot

I mean Frank was fired in the pilot (then stuck around for another four seasons doing basically the same job) and Roman had a wife and kid

I saw an article about Roman and his wife and kid a few weeks back. Still can't remember that being a thing lol

but i'm not sure if i just assumed that because she went away. i don't remember if it was ever explicitly stated that he was married with a kid.

>when Cousin Craig was on screen, I knew I'd be entertained.

>lots of future shows and movies will have a Cousin Craig character that's always stumbles into key moments of the story

"People sometimes like mistakingly call me Craig too, so I'll answer to both."

- Cousin Greg

I don't think she or Ken will ever speak to each other again. The direct shots they took at each other this season were tough. No matter. She's trapped in a loveless power flipped marriage with Tom, with no clue how she's going to raise a child with. At least she's power adjacent?

Kendall couldn't do it though. The minute he sat in his dad's chair he set his fate. His last tirade was kinda scary. To have the one thing you want right there for a second before having it ripped away at the absolute last moment? You want to feel bad for him, but he's a POS like everyone else. Maybe even more so, as you watch him morph into Logan (the cater/waiter is back to a NPI, he abuses his brother and goes into a fit of rage). Not gonna lie, seeing him anywhere around water always makes me think the worst. He could end up floating in the Hudson.

Roman manages to come out of this almost on a good note. He'll make peace with the sale quicker than anyone else. He's always wanted his sibs (and his parents, actually) to be a little closer, especially since his mini hostage situation in S2 (remember he wanted to get in touch with his feelings on the season finale when they were on the mega yacht). For the loss of his dad, family trauma, and possibly not having as much political clout as he may have hoped for if Menkin actually doesn't win, he's a billionaire sipping a martini.

Tom gets to keep his nice things, even as he wonders if/when the owner of the company will sleep with his wife. I guess he'll know when a frozen blood block shows up at the door. I did love the shot how he walked in the office as the newly appointed man. It still comes with an extremely heavy price.

Everybody is bullsh*t, everybody is terrible, everybody is unfathomably rich, and the world moves on.

Oh, and caroline was killing it once again

I went back and watched the ending again today, and yeah, I think if Kendall could've avoided being so fucking smug in that boardroom, he could've gotten away with it and won, lol. Instead, he's in there like the cat that ate the canary, Shiv gets sick to her stomach watching it, she bounces, Kendall and Roman follow--

--and Kendall IMMEDIATELY starts pressuring her. And most of his comments are built around how choosing him, for Shiv, is "logical" and "makes sense." And he's right. She'd be better off in the deal if Kendall was chosen. She'd certainly at least have more power than she will as the wife-on-the-periphery to Tom and Mattson. But Shiv isn't thinking about fucking Kendall's vote up due to logic. It's pure emotion. "I love you but I can't fucking stomach you."

And once she brings up the kid Kendall killed, just to jab him and see how he'll respond, he thinks lying about it is the right move-- when, in fact, it just INFURIATES Roman, locks in Shiv's yes vote, and seals the deal.

That final beat of Roman at the bar, looking like he realizes he can finally be happy, is just exceptional acting, man.

The final Roman scene was a bit more tragic. In the moment he can giggle at the flameout and feel a sense of relief that he no longer has to put on a big act to posture for CEO, but now he’s just a guy drinking at the bar by himself with no more reason to wake up in the morning. Rich but no purpose.

He really just wanted to be involved in the business solely to win Daddy’s respect… but he’s way better off as a club-going, substance-using troll than he is chasing this impossible to attain dream that ultimately doesn’t mean anything.

I think he’ll always be a little sad that he wasn’t what he felt his dad wanted him to be… but those final two scenes certainly seemed to be Roman finally washing his hands of all the corporate life bullshit.

So sure, it’s mixed in some respects, but man, he’s by FAAAAAAR the best off of his three immediate siblings, lol. And I’d imagine he knows it.

It may seem sad to us from the outside, and it is, but from his perspective this is what he wanted even if sometimes he didn't even realize it.

Tom seems convinced that their marriage will be convenient, the Swede wants to fuck…obviously you can read the show straight and she’s simply new Lady Caroline but…we’re there more show…I can see her hand and it’s not nothing.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

No message

No message

No message

Of them actually have power not even when they are in the peak of their “comeback”. Which is why we understand the ending

While Ken is still family

This move gives her more power now but its far more shaky.

It seems like a practical move but possibly too much of an emotional one in her desire to not let Kendall "win".

The main reason he didn’t fuck with Shiv (alongside feeling like he’d want to fuck her, lol) is that she kept wanting to have a say and put her stamp on shit. Mattson wanted a vessel, a pain sponge, someone who’ll just do what he says.

Being the wife of the pain sponge is waaaaay less power than running news in Kendall’s regime imo.

But I think she made the right power play in the moment


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Her decision was just about fucking over Kendall. There wasn't anything altruistic in her thinking. She didn't even really care about the dead waiter. This was 'anybody but my brother, because yuck, he sucks'. The two of them have been the worst to each other throughout the show (Shiv's letter to the press dragging Ken when he was going after Logan in S3, Ken's audio takeover at Shiv's corporate introduction, Shiv instantly shooting down the possibility that Logan underlined Ken's name and Ken with the most vicious of comebacks (it sure as shit doesn't say Shiv)). It had nothing to do with any supposed play for her. It was crushing her brother once more, and this time for good.

Besides, being tied to Tom could quite possibly be much, MUCH worse. First, he doesn't really have power. Position and prestige, yes, but power? Not so much. He's fine with that. They both know how they feel about each other, so why would Tom even entertain listening to her ideas? He's the man, not Shiv. He got the company, after betraying her already to get to this point. Now she has to live with a man she doesn't really love (or doesn't know) while watching him run the company her father started, which he promised to her (and all the kids), all while raising their kid with the man who said she's not fit to have any.

At least if Ken was CEO they could fire Tom and she could keep moving with her life.

i had legit forgotten about Shiv's letter to the press, and Ken blowing up Shiv's first presentation as president.
even though i still think part of her decision was a calculation that she could pull Tom's strings, Kendall is what did it.

re-watching her, she sees the vote actually becoming reality you see her reacting in real time. Still i think she was 80/20 in the moment, otherwise she would have voted no on the spot with every bit of confidence and smugness she had.

Ken handled it in the worst way by having a literal tantrum. while no one believes Shiv gives two shits about the dead waiter other than she wanted to play that card as her own nuke, Kendall pretending he made it up was the final straw... it's also when Roman flipped and changed his mind.

they were all such little kids in that room. and really this whole episode.

>Now she has to live with a man she doesn't
>really love (or doesn't know) while watching him run the
>company her father started, which he promised to her (and all
>the kids), all while raising their kid with the man who said
>she's not fit to have any.

even when she thought she was the CEO she pleads with Tom for them to stay married and raise their child together, so flipping the power dynamic isn't a crazy reversal for her

she loves Tom because he has seen her at her worst and still accepts her (something she could never have with her parents)

>That final beat of Roman at the bar, looking like he realizes
>he can finally be happy, is just exceptional acting, man.

fitting in those emotional beats this year between his usual shit-housing, and being completely believable and affecting, has been a treat to watch

to me, that is her defining characteristic as it relates to any decisions about the business

she has been entitled the entire series, she overvalues her own business acumen based on her running political campaigns (funnily, she cannot see the political maneuvers her own family and spouse make in front of her), and she really just cannot see her petulant older brother prance around like a fucking clown in her dad's seat

1. I started this series years ago and stop because I hated just about everyone. I think I only got back into it when it was clear the show was making fun of these people and considered all the children terrible people who are bad at business.

2. And the story stayed true to that idea to the end. I see people often talk about which one is the smartest, etc. but the truth is they were all not very good. They never pulled off anything well. They failed time and time again. Accomplished nothing. But in the real world, if you are rich and powerful, its so easy for that power to be mistaken for actual business acumen. Shiv thinks she is smarter than she actually is. Roman is a sociopath like his dad, had good instincts but he was only Instinct. didn't give a shit about details and understanding anything. He was all let's just do shit. Ken was just a weak person. No core.

3. I never rooted for these kids. And towards the finally I was not enjoying seeing it look like they would ultimately win. But the universe corrected itself and they flamed out in a way that's been consistent through out the show.

4. I was lightweight traumatized because I experienced my father's death exactly like that. Just a regular day and I got a call something happened down in VA and I spent they next few hours on the phone trying to figure out what was going on. It was a fog of war and chaos happening over the phone with people not close to my father holding the most information.

5. Tom Wambsgans was the most interesting character to me. Dude played him perfectly. Like he was clearly just a joke S1 but he elevated the character a complex person who I recognize (and have worked with). His relationship with Greg was so crazy but real to me. The most touching human moment in the entire series for me was when Greg came sniffing around for a job and he let him back in. I liked how he iced out Hugo. Tom is a psycho, but he looked out for Greg the best a psycho knows how to look out for someone else.

6. The last convo with Tom and the Swede was so good and real to me. Shiv was never going to get the job because Mattson didn't want a partner. So many people at my job trying to angle to get near my boss but I really just come in and do my job and leave him alone and I think that's what he likes about me. I don't want or need face time and I keep shit off his desk.

7. And I think that's the ultimate takeaway is just about everyone is a tool in corporate America. Maybe not Roy Logan, maybe not Mattson, but everyone else (including the Roy kids) are tools to be used by other people. Tom "won" because he knew he was a tool and was happy to play the part. He didn't rise because he was the smartest (or even the meanest) but because he could absorb pain more than anyone else. And once you are no longer useful, you can be discarded. Or even if you stab someone in the back, if you were useful, they would keep you around. It's a sociopathic existence.

But again, I just want everyone to remember, the Logan kids were bad at everything they tried to do, and if they were born in any other position, you wouldn't want them to run your local convenient store.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"