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Forum namePass The Popcorn
Topic subjectAvatar: The Way of Water (James Cameron, 2022)
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=744387
744387, Avatar: The Way of Water (James Cameron, 2022)
Posted by bwood, Mon May-09-22 09:52 AM
https://youtu.be/a8Gx8wiNbs8

Hope it's good unlike the first one.
744388, Eh...the one thing that was special about the first one
Posted by soulfunk, Mon May-09-22 10:16 AM
was the visuals, the 3D (which was cutting edge at the time) and overall CG. This don't look any more impressive than that from 2009, beyond showing different environments like water. The story was blah at the time and it's been 13 years. I really don't see what the hook is.
744391, I'll give Cameron the benefit of the doubt
Posted by bwood, Mon May-09-22 11:11 AM
Hoping that this is a T2 type situation.
744393, Not sure if I'm ready for James Cameron's Ferngully 2
Posted by JiggysMyDayJob, Mon May-09-22 11:24 AM
Took my little cousin the first one at the Cinema Dome with the special 3D glasses and that was the best part of it, taking him. Now he's graduating college with his Masters on Saturday, so not sure if I"m ready to go back to Pandora 13 years later.


Only willing to go back if he goes full Aliens with this one.
744394, Gonna be dope. Can't wait.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon May-09-22 11:50 AM
744397, You doing high frame rate?
Posted by bwood, Mon May-09-22 02:50 PM
He supposedly shot this at 48fps 3D.

Gonna try to do regular IMAX 3D.
744399, If it's an option to me, fuuuuuuuck yeah.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon May-09-22 03:40 PM
Water in high frame rate was 1000% the best part of the Hobbit movies. That barrel sequence in the river was fucking mind-blowing in HFR.

So a whole movie in water? Bruh. I'll see that shit several times, lol.
744402, Won't lie, visually the trailer blew me away more...
Posted by bwood, Mon May-09-22 07:38 PM
... than anything in the first movie. Mos def dropping an edible during a second screening (Press screenings I stay sober for to review the shit).
744400, looks incredible.
Posted by Reeq, Mon May-09-22 04:13 PM
744403, I hated Avatar and think I still do...BUT
Posted by Nodima, Mon May-09-22 10:18 PM
I will say that the Chapo Trap House reading of that movie is one of the more compelling takes I've ever heard in favor of a movie I thought was absolute dogshit. Like, it makes me feel so comprehensively wrong about what I thought sucked about that movie in a way I've rarely felt in my life...but I'm still never gonna see that movie again and couldn't care less about this one, lol.


Anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7CtTo88QOI

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
744425, lol it's def worth a revisit imo
Posted by Frank Longo, Wed May-11-22 10:56 AM
Just listened to this Chapo review for the first time, and I basically agree with everything here, especially the idea that a movie's "cultural touchstone" these days tends to be memes, and a movie this earnest, contextual, and non-quip-oriented was never going to be that by design-- and that that's part of the beauty of it.

And yeah, it's so nakedly anti-capitalism, anti-military, anti-...America, basically-- that it's our moral obligation to refuse to be a cog in the machine. Exceptionalism plays no role here, and that's completely by design. The heroes aren't cool badasses with sick one-liners. They're boring Americans who make the choice to lay down their lives-- and, in Jake's case, make the choice to no longer be human-- in service of standing up against American imperialism.

Cameron makes some of the best "fuck the rich profit-chasing overlords who fuck over the workers" blockbusters ever. And Avatar fits beautifully in that mix imo.
747084, this is untrue
Posted by Rjcc, Wed Dec-28-22 05:19 PM
>Exceptionalism plays no role here, and that's completely by design

the point of the movie, and Cameron has been extremely explicit about this in interviews

is that literally one average unspecial white man would have been good enough to make native Americans win the battle against colonization.

It is Exceptionalism the movie, and that is why it's so bad. It doesn't make sense that Jake should win at all, there's nothing about him that conveys that.


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
747305, Thank you.
Posted by spades, Thu Feb-02-23 12:34 PM
This has always been my issue with it. It's fucking Tarzan, and it's fucking insulting that people EVER thought this way and it's especially insulting that people STILL think this way and are willing to give this passes.

As a person of color, how can you NOT be insulted by this shit?
744407, Finally. A sequel to the most overrated movie ever made.
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue May-10-22 09:02 AM
Thirteen years later.

"James Cameron tricked yall man, like he made a good movie. It was just Dances With Wolves running around a jungle with CGI, doing nothing." - Russell Westbrook
744605, lets make a movie with those blue guys&put them in the blue ocean
Posted by RobOne4, Sun May-22-22 10:45 PM
746806, black bears attacking a black forest campground at midnight
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Wed Dec-07-22 08:48 PM
https://twitter.com/Calvinn_Hobbes/status/1310927541109170176
746807, All the best movies are blue.
Posted by Frank Longo, Wed Dec-07-22 10:49 PM
Including basically all of his movies. That’s why he’s a god in the blockbuster world— he EMBRACES THE POWER OF BLUE.
746498, New trailer. Not watching.
Posted by bwood, Wed Nov-02-22 10:35 AM
https://youtu.be/1f65r8BUZ5I
746718, Hey bwood, any intel on if AMCs are gonna be HFR?
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Nov-29-22 12:57 PM
I can’t find any info anywhere, and it’s fucking annoying, lol.
746734, Info is unfortunately non-existent
Posted by bwood, Wed Nov-30-22 09:23 AM
My guess would be, whenever you saw it in High Frame Rate for the re-release in September, go to the same theater for this one.
746735, I got seats for the DBOX at the Chinese Theater. Fuck it, lol.
Posted by Frank Longo, Wed Nov-30-22 09:44 AM
Might as well go big for a new James Cameron movie.
746815, I might see you there depending on the time
Posted by JiggysMyDayJob, Thu Dec-08-22 09:51 PM
Saw Fury Road at this D-Box so I know this is going to go hard.
746767, Not interested.
Posted by spades, Mon Dec-05-22 12:22 PM
746773, 3 hours 12 minutes long!!!!
Posted by handle, Mon Dec-05-22 04:03 PM
I'm OUT unless this gets the best reviews possible.
746788, It's good. Way too fucking long.
Posted by bwood, Tue Dec-06-22 04:10 PM
Your mileage may vary on this one.

I personally liked it more than the first, but it's too fucking long for its own good.

It's cool to see Cameron with so much more money at his disposal as you can see, this nigga lost his fucking mind. I mean seriously nothing makes happier to see one of our top teir blockbuster directors remind us who he is.

The visuals, the action, and the acting are miles better across the board with exception of a new human character. And there's an actual story this time (thank God).

But it does get repetitive and it falls into the Marvel trap of setting up for all the sequels in the pipeline.

The 3D is INSANE!!! My screening this morning was in Dolby Cinema 3D and my god the sound and picture were crisp. Can't wait to see this again in IMAX 3D.

The High Frame Rate is incredible and I honestly preferred it to the stuff in 24 frames per second. It looked much smoother and the details on everything was much more life-like. Seriously, there's stuff in here that felt like I could reach out and touch.

But yeah, there's whole sections I could easily make shorter or just cut.

With that said, definitely check it out at least once in a premium format in 3D or regular 3D. This does have me mildly excited for the next one.

EDIT: I was thinking the whole time that if Cameron gets to do this with a mega-budget then I can't wait to see what Denis Villeneuve gets to do with more resources with DUNE: PART TWO.

Also, my boy said a movie this big, he wished we could've seen it in IMAX to take up a greater field of view versus the the slightly bigger Dolby screen. And he's NOT an IMAX guy.
746804, The more I marinate on this, the more I like it.
Posted by bwood, Wed Dec-07-22 05:29 PM
I would easily take 5 more of these over more Marvel movies.

746816, This review makes me mad CinemaDome is no longer
Posted by JiggysMyDayJob, Thu Dec-08-22 09:52 PM
I saw the first one in the Cinema dome with Cameron's special 3-D glasses, and I was fucking amazed. I wish I could see this one there now.
746967, Regardless, see it in 3D.
Posted by bwood, Fri Dec-16-22 02:01 PM
There's really nothing like this.
746972, I know the human character you’re talking about haha
Posted by Tiger Woods, Sat Dec-17-22 11:27 AM
But Spider is almost an homage to John Connor - really important kid part portrayed by a laughably bad kid actor hahaha
747085, RE: I know the human character you’re talking about haha
Posted by bwood, Wed Dec-28-22 06:15 PM
>But Spider is almost an homage to John Connor - really
>important kid part portrayed by a laughably bad kid actor
>hahaha

*daps*

He wasn't as bad as Worthington was in the first one, but he still sucks
746810, bwood I’m buying tickets for son and I, please help
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Dec-08-22 02:43 PM
I have the choice of

IMAX3D (though not a huge imax screen)

or

real3D with High frame rate

What’s the difference here and is IMAX worth it? IMAX is $3 more per ticket but if it’s that cool I wanna do it, I’m just a noob.
746811, What's the theater name and location?
Posted by bwood, Thu Dec-08-22 05:40 PM
Wanna look up if it's Laser or notm
746813, Regal Majestic, Silver Spring MD
Posted by Tiger Woods, Thu Dec-08-22 08:13 PM
746814, Go with regular High Frame Rate 3D
Posted by bwood, Thu Dec-08-22 08:40 PM
The IMAX is a Xenon, so 2K 3D.
746818, Thank you king!
Posted by Tiger Woods, Fri Dec-09-22 07:55 AM
746822, NP!
Posted by bwood, Fri Dec-09-22 11:04 AM
Happy to help.
746958, AMC 3-D version private rental cost is crazy high
Posted by handle, Thu Dec-15-22 12:49 PM
They want $829 for a showing that allows up to 40 people.

I don't like 40 people enough to do that.

746964, Genuinely might have the best special effects in cinema history.
Posted by Frank Longo, Fri Dec-16-22 12:52 AM
Like, there aren't words to describe how impressive and immersive this is. To give you some idea, the first Avatar looks better than more or less any movie today... and that was *thirteen years* of FX advancements ago.

Storywise, brilliant to center it around the family, brilliant to expand the scale to the level he's done, brilliant to bring back Weaver and *especially* Lang, who is truly terrific here.

It makes me mad that so many blockbusters these days could've been doing *this* level of work and instead settle for "good enough." We need more mad geniuses like Cameron. (It helps that he actually pays his FX artists.)

I'm sure those who thought the original was "too corny" or whatever will still have plenty to poke fun at here. Cameron's still super-earnest, still loves the planet, still will throw everything he's got into unsubtly underscoring his pro-nature, anti-capitalist themes. You won't find any tongues in cheek, any "*that* just happened"-style quips. It's unabashedly old school in a way few blockbusters today are willing to be-- and I unabashedly dig it.
747094, CGI-wise, it's not even a question.
Posted by will_5198, Mon Jan-02-23 02:04 AM
>Genuinely might have the best special effects in cinema history.

this is the best-looking movie to incorporate CGI, ever.
746971, an actual marvel, pun totally intended
Posted by Tiger Woods, Sat Dec-17-22 08:10 AM

I’ve never seen anything like this

This world feels real and lived in. It’s long, but also the pace goes a long way in building out this world , there’s no rush to get anywhere but I don’t think it ever dragged either.

It’s legitimately hard to distinguish what’s tangible and what’s CG. There’s -no- bad green screen work at all. You know at the end of Endgame when Rhodey’s head is just floating in the Iron Patriot suit? Yea there’s zero of that in this movie.

The textures in the characters skins, weaponry exteriors, particles floating in the water, waves crashing when the whale creatures jump from the sea … it’s all just so fluid and tangible.

And the characters themselves convey emotion in a way that’s never been achieved before, full stop. The tension between the Water tribe king and queen , the pain in Jake’s face throughout as he knows the horror of war and does everything in his power to avoid it , all feels authentic. I know Gollum is sort of the standard for computer-generated characters but this flick makes Gollum look like Space Jam.

They showed the trailer for Ant Man 3 and it looks like an even stinkier pile of shit on screen that it does on my phone. Why even make bad blockbusters , or at least why go SEE bad blockbusters, at all if Avatar shows what’s actually possible?

I hope they don’t hop around for scenery - next movie in the desert, next next movie in the snow…I like the characters around sun and trees and water. But whatever Cameron does I’ll be there. I’ve never had a movie going experience like this before, and despite the long runtime I’m gonna see it again.

746973, lol, this is 100% true
Posted by Frank Longo, Sat Dec-17-22 06:12 PM
"They showed the trailer for Ant Man 3 and it looks like an even stinkier pile of shit on screen that it does on my phone."

Watching that trailer-- and *then* watching the first few minutes of Avatar? It's just a completely different world, visually. Like, where is the money going? lol
746974, I would take 6 more of these than another Marvel Studios joint.
Posted by bwood, Sun Dec-18-22 07:33 AM
It's not even close in terms of action and world building. Let alone visuals.

Shit, I prefer the story of this than any of the Phase Four movies. It's better executed too.
747325, Question for all of y'all. What do you think happened? Or why...
Posted by normal35762, Mon Feb-06-23 05:29 AM
do you think Marvel is doing this? Being cheap? Not caring? Too many things going on at the expense of quality? The No Limit Records Theory? Thinking their brand is invincible therefore they can do the minimum? What can they do to solve it? Slow down?

I'm not initiated like y'all so y'all see things I may not see.
746981, I thought it was better than the original (KINDA MILD SPOILERS)
Posted by pretentious username, Sun Dec-18-22 08:51 PM
This is a gorgeous movie. I will watch in IMAX when I have the chance. I like the story arc for all the major characters, and it didn’t really drag much except for some of the scenes where they’re learning to swim. I think it actually felt shorter than the original somehow.

If I were to pick a couple nits (MILD SPOILERS BELOW)…







-The big death that happened towards the end was fairly predictable. It didn’t bother me that much because it had the intended effect on everyone else. I just thought it was obvious that all the other major characters had more importance moving forward. Plus that death/who would feel guilty about it was foreshadowed early on, so it stuck in my brain that it would almost certainly happen for real at either the midway point or late in the film.

-Kiri connects to a sea plant a 2nd time and it has NO effect on her health whatsoever. I didn’t need to see her have another seizure, but it was weird that she was 100% fine the 2nd time around when they told us that death was a likely possibility. Again, not a huge deal, just a minor oversight imo. She also seems like she may be the most important character moving forward, so it was pretty clear to me that she wasn’t gonna die, but putting her in more jeopardy would’ve made that scene a little more meaningful.
747023, Loved this
Posted by go mack, Wed Dec-21-22 07:53 AM
Def worth the theater price
747030, Crossed half a billion worldwide in under a week.
Posted by Frank Longo, Wed Dec-21-22 02:14 PM
There's a good chance that, by the time it's been open for two weeks, it'll have grossed more than any Marvel movie in 2022-- and maybe *any* movie of 2022 save Top Gun.

And that's *with* New Year's Weekend still to come.

I saw plenty of weirdos taking victory laps, claiming Avatar 2's opening weekend box office was a disappointment... when it's likely to become the top grossing movie of 2022 (and one of the ten highest grossing movies of all time) by MLK Weekend. And it'll run for at least another month after that. It's the same thing Titanic and Avatar did.

Some people never learn, lol.
747032, Haters gonna hate
Posted by bwood, Wed Dec-21-22 07:29 PM
Cameron movies always open under expectations and then make up for it with legs that run for months.
747065, Great point
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Mon Dec-26-22 08:54 PM
747050, Yeah...all they had to do is look at the box office from the first one,
Posted by soulfunk, Fri Dec-23-22 11:28 AM
or Titanic. His films have a LONG tail. And for something like this one specifically you have folks waiting for the chance to see it in a specific format and not just jumping on any screening. I'll likely go see it next week...
747075, Expected to pass a billion tonight.
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Dec-27-22 05:36 PM
We're not even at New Year's weekend yet.
747080, meh (spoilers)
Posted by RobOne4, Wed Dec-28-22 02:13 PM
I missed the first one in theaters. I was a new dad and it just didnt look appealing to me. I caught it on tv a few different times over the years and didnt get the hype. The story was weak and the visuals didnt blow me away. For 13 years I listened to people say OH BUT YOU HAVE TO SEE IT IN 3D. I stood my ground that if the story is weak 3D isnt going to help it. Also the CGI people during fight scenes looked like a video game cut scene.

I saw this one in high frame rate 3D titan luxe with dolby atmos like the good Lord James Cameron meant for it to be seen. Immediately 5 minutes into the movie the 3D and visuals were FUCKING AMAZING! I was blown away. Holy Shit! It is not even close in how much better this looks than any other movie ever made. Even the stupid looking blue people looked less stupid. They are still a wonky character design imo. Also the blue screen stuff with live humans looked seamless. Especially the submarine flooding in the 3rd act. That was done so well. The 3rd act was gorgeous. The fight scenes were amazing and the high frame rate really helped. There was a scene where they were shooting a rail gun at the fleeing kids. INSANE!

I had some issues with the acting. Spider was just not good. I know it was hard to act to dudes in suits and blue screen. But if he is going to be front and center he has to do better than that. The voice acting of the two sons was also bad. I hated all the bros in their dialogue. Generally i dislike kid actors 90% of the time anyway. So this is probably a me problem...nah it was bad. Its a them problem.

The story wasnt WAAAAAAAY better than the first one. Had some small issues. But a huge improvement. No major complaints.

Now to the long elephant in the room. THE MOVIE IS FUCKING LONG. It felt like all 3 hours and 12 minutes. It started off fine and ended fine but jesus christ the 2nd act dragged. A lot of the movie seemed like really cool cut scenes thrown in for the visual wow. It seemed like almost every single location change had a "welcome to jurassic park" moment with music and all. Even if we had seen the location before. Yes I understand you made some amazing visuals but lets move the story along and stop felating ourselves. 30 minutes could have easily been cut off from the 2nd act. Probably more if you really wanted to. I was fighting sleep and my son actually went to walk around in the lobby for a few minutes to wake up.

Overall it was good but waaaaaaaaay too fucking long. I did find that after two movies I dont care about the blue people and their battle against humans. It was visually amazing but Im good never seeing another Avatar movie again. I do believe you need to see it in 3D to full appreciate it. When i got home and saw a commercial for the movie I thought wow these commercials look like shit in comparison. I dont think the amazing visuals would have made me like the first one. Now that ive seen the amazing visuals. 8 out of 10.
747093, It was amazing…
Posted by soulfunk, Mon Jan-02-23 12:57 AM
The original was beautiful to watch and obviously a huge leap forward in terms of effects. But the story was thin and derivative. This was somehow even MORE of a leap forward, and I thought the story was much better. There was more depth to the characters instead of them all being cliched character types, and the story itself while still predictable definitely had more complexity which made it interesting.

But the visuals? My goodness. The bar has been raised.

I see it just hit 1.4 billion also…
747095, I loved the middle section
Posted by will_5198, Mon Jan-02-23 02:20 AM
it's rare to have a blockbuster movie spend time basking in its own world. "nothing happened in the second act" -- oh, as if the deadpan one-liners, long-winded plot-point dialogue and backstory drivel that fills up most major films count for anything.

but soaking up Cameron's insane visuals, with a new incredible scene every few minutes and no hurry to go anywhere? that's a fucking movie-going experience.
747096, also (spoiler)
Posted by will_5198, Mon Jan-02-23 02:22 AM





























the little man was Cameron's biggest side villain since Paul Reiser in Aliens. fuck him.
747097, 0% drop at the box office week 3. ZERO.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Jan-02-23 11:00 AM
It’s happening again.
747098, RE: 0% drop at the box office week 3. ZERO.
Posted by go mack, Mon Jan-02-23 01:03 PM
It's funny reading the hater comments, well it's not gonna get to 2 bill. Just wait, then goal posts move to yeah but inflation like it's not still making more than anything else is by far at this point. While I wouldn't mind seeing Cameron try other things he's locked in with Avatar world now and I'm fine with that too.
747105, Another reminder that Twitter/social media is not real life
Posted by Ryan M, Wed Jan-04-23 07:58 PM
747099, I need to see the fully executed vision of five films now.
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Jan-03-23 02:53 AM
So far, he's 2-2 with these. IMO the legitimate criticism is both minor and minimal.

He's smartly setting up a Star Wars-esque arc here with the family.

spoilers

Kiri was probably the most engaging new character for me, given her connection to Aiwa. Are we all agreed that this was an immaculate conception, with no father? That seems to be the obvious conclusion there.

Emergency Awesome speculated on a Darth Vader-like arc for Quaritch, which I'm open to, if not particularly thrilled about. I don't really care about him or Monkey Boy, but I didn't hate the dynamic.

I enjoyed the arc with the son and the Tulkuns, which my wife referred to as the Free Willy arc. They did a find job making the humans as repulsive as possible with the whole fountain of youth serum bit, talking about how intelligent- and emotionally intelligent- the Tulkuns are, in light of the downright savage way they hunted them.

My lone significant gripe was the "Titanic" portion of act three. Nah. Not for me. I didn't need the whole "we're about to drown!" bit. It gave Kiri a chance to shine, so there's that, but the process was anything but exciting or interesting- particularly so late in such a long film. they could have cut that out and given Kiri other, better shit to do IMO.

All in all, great movie.
747102, I'm happy that movie goers are enjoying the film
Posted by kwez, Wed Jan-04-23 10:38 AM
Was tired of all the vitriol from professional reviewers
747103, Links me to the "vitriol" - I'm serious
Posted by handle, Wed Jan-04-23 01:25 PM
>Was tired of all the vitriol from professional reviewers

I want to read "cruel and bitter criticism."

747322, "Grabbed Vanilla Ice and ripped out his blond dreads " - Em
Posted by normal35762, Sun Feb-05-23 02:19 PM