Someone has to tell me how this is not rated R.

People are going to hate this movie.

It's a 3 hour hardboiled detective story that's legit terrifying and I cannot stress enough, violent as fuck. There's action but not in a big budget blockbuster sense. The biggest set piece is the car chase which feels like it came from a William Friedkin movie.

This is more grounded, realistic, and gritty than anything in Nolan's trilogy. Even the third act set piece is smaller and more real than even the smallest set piece in THE DARK KNIGHT TRILOGY. This Gotham is gross and seedy.

What's cool is that almost every character has an arc including Batman (not Bruce, but Batman)

What I love is how this addresses that Brucevhas money and can deal with half of the city's problems through philanthropy and influence.

This also looks at Batman's white male rage as white privilege.

I'll save more for when this drops, but yeah this is my favorite Batman movie so far.

And this is literally about Batman as Bruce Wayne is only in it for about 10 - 15 minutes.

If so I'm all the way in. I always loved the Year One story and the animated version was wonderful. If it has that gritty down to earth energy I'm all in.

Story wise. But tone wise definitely YEAR ONE.

>Story wise. But tone wise definitely YEAR ONE.

Long Halloween kinda continued the Year One story so if they're getting right into the meat of it I'm in. I'm glad they aren't doing the origin story shit again. Thats what I liked about this new Spiderman trilogy, we all know how these guys become who they are so lets just get on with the getting on.

Looks like I'll have to brace the theaters.

I'm sure I'll catch this on HBO Max, but unless this is executed exceptionally, your review hints at some of my least favorite tendencies with Batman movies/comics:

Trying too hard for realism. For me, the more realistic you make the world, the more Batman seems kind of ridiculous, since costumed heroes don't exist in the real world. Even in the Nolan movies, I kept expecting criminals to snicker a bit every time they saw him.

I'm not against a heavy detective angle, except I worry that the detective work won't be very interesting (which is what got me with Long Halloween). It's like it was cool that Winter Soldier borrowed from 70s paranoid conspiracy movies, but on its own, that element was pretty mediocre compared to the films that inspired it. Hope it's a detective story that would be interesting even if Batman wasn't involved in it.

Not the biggest fan of stories that revolve around the idea that Batman may be just as damaged as his rogues, and just go overboard about the darkness/moral ambiguities of the character. Problem is, I just end up agreeing with the points too much to where I'm not really rooting for Batman.

That said, I do like that you said it's on a smaller scale. Hopefully it avoids the sprawl that so many tentpole blockbusters have these days.

to see this, but I'm curious if there were any issues deciphering dialog in the movie. There was a scene in the trailers where I had to play the clip with Closed Captions on to tell what in the world Batman was saying.

Also, out of curiosity, did the three hours feeling draining to you? Like did the length of the movie take you out of the experience to watching the flick? Hopefully that question makes sense.

I hope this drops on HBOMax because I am interested in seeing this, but I have no desire to test the safety of NYC theaters despite the lowered numbers of COVID cases. I'm off my soapbox.

>to see this, but I'm curious if there were any issues
>deciphering dialog in the movie. There was a scene in the
>trailers where I had to play the clip with Closed Captions on
>to tell what in the world Batman was saying.
>

No.

>Also, out of curiosity, did the three hours feeling draining
>to you? Like did the length of the movie take you out of the
>experience to watching the flick? Hopefully that question
>makes sense.

Nope. This doesn't have a dull moment. Pulls you in and doesn't let go.


>
>I hope this drops on HBOMax because I am interested in seeing
>this, but I have no desire to test the safety of NYC theaters
>despite the lowered numbers of COVID cases. I'm off my
>soapbox.

Originally it was HBO Max/Theater but they switched it after all the lawsuits. It will be on HBO Max 45 days after its movie release. I think the Matrix 4 was the last big budget HBO Max/Theatre release.

but nothing close to what Nolan does.

>Someone has to tell me how this is not rated R.
>
>People are going to hate this movie.
>
>It's a 3 hour hardboiled detective story that's legit
>terrifying and I cannot stress enough, violent as fuck.
>There's action but not in a big budget blockbuster sense. The
>biggest set piece is the car chase which feels like it came
>from a William Friedkin movie.
>
>This is more grounded, realistic, and gritty than anything in
>Nolan's trilogy. Even the third act set piece is smaller and
>more real than even the smallest set piece in THE DARK KNIGHT
>TRILOGY. This Gotham is gross and seedy.
>
>What's cool is that almost every character has an arc
>including Batman (not Bruce, but Batman)
>
>What I love is how this addresses that Brucevhas money and can
>deal with half of the city's problems through philanthropy and
>influence.
>
>This also looks at Batman's white male rage as white
>privilege.
>
>I'll save more for when this drops, but yeah this is my
>favorite Batman movie so far.
>
>And this is literally about Batman as Bruce Wayne is only in
>it for about 10 - 15 minutes.

also sounds like something a casual blockbuster audience prolly wouldnt enjoy lol.

and obviously the usual suspects are gonna have an issue with the 'wokeness'.

if reeves manages to piss off the right people with this film...he should be knighted.

I don't want a big blockbuster movie or types of movies for DC. I don't think it works. The realism is what made Nolan's trilogy great compared to the previous Batman films and it's ultimately what people gravitated to.

nvmd, check your inbox

“People are going to hate this movie” just sent me

LETS GO

No way will this work at a drive-inn because of the poor projection.

Mind if I pitch in and join you? Lol

Call me tonight, we'll discuss it

Rented AMC Mission Valley and got Theatre 12, which judging by the seating charts is one of the smallest in the place.

Well it was great. Not as good as the Dolby cinema at AMC, but very very good. Screen was big. Seats were great. Projection was good - not as inky black as Dolby - but much better than the drive in or a bad cam rip.
Sound was wonderful - that Batmobile was felt.

I had a total of 11 people in there - 20 still would have been very sparse.

Totally worth the $199 and I'm definitely going to rent for Doctor Strange in May.

I had everyone do an at home test or take a test once they got there - super easy and we all KNEW no one had COVID so it felt incredibly safe.

The cinematography is outstanding. Every shot just oozes atmosphere. Creative use of stuff like depth of field without it becoming annoying or gimmicky.

Batman comes across as both powerful and vulnerable, I agree that it's more grounded and gritty than even Nolan's stuff.

It does drag a little in the end though, and some of the lines are a little predictable.

But if this is the quality going forward, I'm very much in.

Incels are definitely gonna feel like they're being picked on and called out.

It's not even close.

Matt Reeves is the real deal. Give him all the blockbusters, man. Between the last two Apes movies and this, he knows his stuff.

I could nitpick a couple of scenes, but overall it looks terrific, sounds terrific, and is just a gangbusters Batman movie.

Gave me the feel of the Arkham games which I loved, liked seeing him actually be a detective solving crimes. If this is a start of a trilogy, Im anxious to see what is next.

But the movie was at least a half hour too long, in part because it was so happy with its shots. It sounded incredible too.

I'd put it 1a/1b with Dark Knight as far as live action Batmen go and as far as potential trilogies I'd rate it far higher than Begins as a kickstarter. All the teases at the end alone are tantalizing. I already love the idea of Barry Keoghan as Joker just off the strength of Killing of a Sacred Deer and the Green Knight. He was made for this.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Just because of the teaser talk. But I agree.

For being 3 hours I didn’t even think it felt that long.

Man there’s a few times in this movie where Batman isn’t doing so well. Having second thoughts about jumping off a building, crash landing with the parachute cape, the ass kicking he takes on top of the Jumbotron at the Garden…this is the most human Batman ever put on screen. Pattinson’s eyes make the character - whenever the Wayne family
Is mentioned, or when he sees children in distress his face expresses the slightest hint of genuine concern. While it seems obvious now, the idea that Batman is just a dude and not an invincible warrior is such a welcome and refreshing take on the character. The dichotomy of carrying himself like the Terminator but stumbling often in action is fascinating to see.

Zoe Kravitz is magnetic. One minute she’s a badass the next minute she’s in distress and it always feels genuine.

Farrell is a hoot. Way in for that spin-off.

Dano nearly steals the show as the unmasked Riddler yelling at Batman while in the cell.

The way the Batmobile is introduced in this movie is exhilarating. You can feel the power and the sound is massive.

I got out of the movie 4 hours ago and still there’s some shots that are just haunting me. When he’s wading through the water with the flare and all of the Gothamites are following him? Man.

Nolan’s Dark Knight suffers from too much telling and not enough showing. We’re told repeatedly that Dent is a great guy without ever actually seeing him be great. But that’s not the case with the characters in The Batman. You actually SEE Batman’s growing pains , Catwoman’s street smarts on display, Jim Gordon’s undying faith in Batman. The characters are so authentic that you can’t help but be drawn in and root for them.

This is the best thing I’ve seen in a theater in a long time. This thumbs it’s nose at Scorsese’s “it’s not cinema” gripe. This raises the bar not just for the genre but for blockbusters in general. This is an at-times grueling movie that runs 3 hours and still manages to succeed with just about every risk it takes. I cannot believe how superb this is.

"Nolan’s Dark Knight suffers from too much telling and not enough showing. We’re told repeatedly that Dent is a great guy without ever actually seeing him be great. But that’s not the case with the characters in The Batman. You actually SEE Batman’s growing pains , Catwoman’s street smarts on display, Jim Gordon’s undying faith in Batman. The characters are so authentic that you can’t help but be drawn in and root for them."


Michael Cain and Gary Oldman had a tremendous yearning for Gotham and Bruce Wayne. Absolute undying faith that grew with each film. Almost to the point of making the audience cry. You can't say Nolan's films didnt let you SEE while ignoring the fact that you could completely remove Andy Serkis' Alfred from The Batman and it wouldn't change a thing. There was zero connection there. It was just "you're not my father" over and over again. Nothing made you SEE Gordon or Alfred had some undying faith in Batman. There was no story. We are just supposed to believe it as an audience from the get-go. We saw Christian Bale fail numerous times while learning in Batman Begins. Saw his fear. His desire to be accepted. To belong to something.

I just dont understand this revisionist history people are making because they liked The Batman. I liked it too. But the Nolan trilogy, the first two atleast, still hold strong.

I'll give it about 8/10 and a Yes on the "would you go see it again" test

oh the music was really good too. Vader vibes on the main theme. Batman kind of has a slasher movie villain vibe when he's in action for a lot of the movie. especially in the car chase starting from how the Batmobile was revealed. that scene was incredible.

strong foundations for a strong series. a tighter runtime and a better villain and they can top TDK. The Riddler in this was an interesting take but ultimately I can never love a Riddler story too much.

and finally, i can't believe that was Colin Farrell as The Penguin. even knowing it, i still cant see it lol.

Who is playing the joker in the cell next to riddler? Voice sounds familiar

Barry Keoghan

I have to imagine recency bias is making people say it's better than The Dark Knight. Def the most Batman focused movie.


Great story and visuals. Super dark, which i love. But man, it is a LONG movie. I could see the sequel being really really amazing. I need R Patts to put on some more muscle though. Outside of the Bat suit he looked very "not powerful." Loved how scary it was and the villains. Very very good movie. But, in my opinion, people need to chill with the "best batman movie ever made."

There’s more wrong with Dark Knight than there is the Batman

For starters, in DK the antagonist is more interesting than the good guy by miiiiiiles. I think in The Batman , Batman himself is the most interesting and important character.

DK script is a mess. Big exciting set pieces bookend a bunch of monologues. I’m supposed to believe Harvey Dent is a king without ever actually SEEING him do king shit.

Honestly dude? I think most people have such an intense fondness for that movie because of the Ledger performance. It’s Russel Crowe in Gladiator special, Denzel in Training Day special. But Ledger anchors a pretty inconsistent movie in my opinion.

Joker, Penguin/Catwoman, Twoface/Riddler, Freeze/Ivy, Joker, Bane, whatever those Snyder flicks were doing

Even animated, you’re talking Phantasm, Red Hood, the folks listed above

It always feels like Batflicks center on the antagonist

That’s partially why this Bat feels a bit flat IMO, because the villains are

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>That’s partially why this Bat feels a bit flat IMO, because
>the villains are

Vastly prefer a movie that focuses on making the protagonist interesting than one that focuses on letting the antagonists ham it up.

For the first time ever, a movie called Batman is predominantly about him

I think I saw The Dark Knight six times in theaters. Both 2.5+ hour movies but if you asked me to immediately watch this one over again i would say no. I don't feel a need to. I cant point to any one scene I want to see again without waiting the 45 days until its on HBO Max. With The Dark Knight there were set pieces or particular scenes that I couldn't wait to re-watch in the big theater. This was way too long and way too slow in some parts.

I truly believe it is the best "focused on Batman" movie. But as an overall entertaining movie with tremendous re-watch value, it's not touching The Dark Knight. I don't even think it's fair to compare the two. Batman Begins, yes. But The Dark Knight was a "batman universe" movie with the intro already made. I think the sequel to The Batman has the potential, maybe.

In my opinion, i can wait to re-watch this on HBO Max and enjoy it. The Dark Knight i immediately wanted to turn around and buy another ticket. It was an "event" movie.

This is a Batman as a detective movie.

I didn't like the Dark Night because the implausibility of The Joker and his plans were so so so far over the top to me that I couldn't take it seriously.

This was a movie about a vigilante learning his craft - the other was a movie about a villain and a playboy following him disguising his voice.

the two are pretty clearly the best Batman flicks imo.
The sinister tone, Pattinson's take on Batman, and even the Batman/Gordon relationship all reminded a lot of Batman: The Animated Series. The narration even made this one feel like a Batman comic.
And I didn't even feel the length of the movie until like the last half hour.

1. I WATCHED THE MOVIE FIRST. Ever since they ruined Hulk catching Iron Man in The Avengers in a TV preview, I've gone into caves with movie trailers.

When i first skimmed bwood's comments, I was like "why would people hate this movie?" then I saw he said it was his favorite.

I have a 33 year history with movie Batman. The first one blew me the fuck away, I can still quote lines like my favorite rap songs. It is THE standard bearer for modern superhero films and TV (BTAS, JLU/JLA, etc). I don't know that it is truly appreciated for what it did. Look at who played in the major roles, some serious ass fucking actors.
That being said, it fell the fuck off precipitously....

Then comes Nolan's trilogy and I loved LOVED LOVED LOVED the motherfucking Dark Knight. THAT.WAS.MY.SHIT. I saw it AT LEAST three times in IMAX. A whole bunch fucking more on dvd/blu ray. However, once I got over my revived fanboying (took several years), I was able to view it with a more sophisticated lens and while I appreciated that it is one of the greatest SPECTACLES ever, it wasn't even the best Batman movie of the trilogy (BB much more solid and consistent throughout). We can have that discussion though.

I fucked with Batfleck, but they put him in some shitty ass films.

With this movie, I wasn't sure what time I was going to go, whether I'd take my teenager or not (my family is usually banned from first viewings, them nigs talk too damn much or are too concerned with their food and drink), and I saw it was 3 hours so tried to get all my pee breaks out in a timely fashion. How about 45 minutes in I felt like I needed to go again but rode that shit through to the end? I WAS HIGHLY IMPRESSED AND ENTERTAINED. Looking forward to seeing again with my son. Bruce brooded without being emo, and that was fine fucking line, but pulled it off. You could see he hadn't yet grown into his real mask (Bruce the aloof), which will be interesting to see in future films. But as said before, this was a BATMAN movie. A 30/70 hybrid of Year One - Long Halloween.

Man of Steel, FTR was ok, but DCEU started a nuclear arms race with MCU and fell the fuck flat. I sooooo soooo tired of hearing DC defenders using the "people don't like it cause it's dark!" for their series of flops. A damn lie they is. Make.a.movie.that.makes.us.give.a.shit. THAT is the assignment.

The only part that rubbed me the wrong way was when Selina said "white male privilege." That shit felt way too Robin D'Angelo for me. The sentiment and concept was right, but the dialogue was ham fisted in that moment. Like in Black Panther when Shuri called Ross "colonizer" that shit landed with precision because it considered the contextual basis of the exchange. Selina turning academic all of a sudden didn't land for me. There were 5-10 better ways to say it than she did. I am happy for this to be my only real gripe.

Looking forward to additional screenings. I enjoy watching movies where I don't capture everything first time out.

It’s even better the second time cause there’s so much going on To take in the first viewing. I have the same relationship with Bat flicks as well.
I laughed at not taking the fam first viewing reasons lol



>1. I WATCHED THE MOVIE FIRST. Ever since they ruined Hulk
>catching Iron Man in The Avengers in a TV preview, I've gone
>into caves with movie trailers.
>
>When i first skimmed bwood's comments, I was like "why would
>people hate this movie?" then I saw he said it was his
>favorite.
>
>I have a 33 year history with movie Batman. The first one
>blew me the fuck away, I can still quote lines like my
>favorite rap songs. It is THE standard bearer for modern
>superhero films and TV (BTAS, JLU/JLA, etc). I don't know
>that it is truly appreciated for what it did. Look at who
>played in the major roles, some serious ass fucking actors.
>That being said, it fell the fuck off precipitously....
>
>Then comes Nolan's trilogy and I loved LOVED LOVED LOVED the
>motherfucking Dark Knight. THAT.WAS.MY.SHIT. I saw it AT
>LEAST three times in IMAX. A whole bunch fucking more on
>dvd/blu ray. However, once I got over my revived fanboying
>(took several years), I was able to view it with a more
>sophisticated lens and while I appreciated that it is one of
>the greatest SPECTACLES ever, it wasn't even the best Batman
>movie of the trilogy (BB much more solid and consistent
>throughout). We can have that discussion though.
>
>I fucked with Batfleck, but they put him in some shitty ass
>films.
>
>With this movie, I wasn't sure what time I was going to go,
>whether I'd take my teenager or not (my family is usually
>banned from first viewings, them nigs talk too damn much or
>are too concerned with their food and drink), and I saw it was
>3 hours so tried to get all my pee breaks out in a timely
>fashion. How about 45 minutes in I felt like I needed to go
>again but rode that shit through to the end? I WAS HIGHLY
>IMPRESSED AND ENTERTAINED. Looking forward to seeing again
>with my son. Bruce brooded without being emo, and that was
>fine fucking line, but pulled it off. You could see he hadn't
>yet grown into his real mask (Bruce the aloof), which will be
>interesting to see in future films. But as said before, this
>was a BATMAN movie. A 30/70 hybrid of Year One - Long
>Halloween.
>
>Man of Steel, FTR was ok, but DCEU started a nuclear arms race
>with MCU and fell the fuck flat. I sooooo soooo tired of
>hearing DC defenders using the "people don't like it cause
>it's dark!" for their series of flops. A damn lie they is.
>Make.a.movie.that.makes.us.give.a.shit. THAT is the
>assignment.
>
>The only part that rubbed me the wrong way was when Selina
>said "white male privilege." That shit felt way too Robin
>D'Angelo for me. The sentiment and concept was right, but the
>dialogue was ham fisted in that moment. Like in Black Panther
>when Shuri called Ross "colonizer" that shit landed with
>precision because it considered the contextual basis of the
>exchange. Selina turning academic all of a sudden didn't land
>for me. There were 5-10 better ways to say it than she did.
>I am happy for this to be my only real gripe.
>
>Looking forward to additional screenings. I enjoy watching
>movies where I don't capture everything first time out.
>
>

I liked this. First movie I've seen in a theater in years, so it was fun just on that level, seeing something very well-made production wise on a big screen with theater sound.

Really liked the *idea* behind the ending. Wish they had executed it better. Could have been super powerful, like the Spiderman 2 train scene. Instead it was more like Batman mildly exerts himself for some photo ops.

So costume wise, maybe the best one? Although I am really partial to the Batfleck costume (and not much else from those movies).

EDIT: Didn't appreciate the two ripped from the headlines (some 17 years ago) nature of the climax. That's a very tone deaf kind of "realism" to me.

I'll never be satisified with the movie costumes because I have in my head from the comic books that Batman is more like a ninja than iron man.


As far as photo ops Batman. That's a good way to put it. I was just like, that ain't Batman's style.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Like, it makes such a difference that you can see his eyes, as opposed to the all white of the comics. In fact, for most comic book movie top half masks, IMO it always looks way less cool when you see the pupils through little eye shaped cutouts. There's always the risk of them looking sort of cross-eyed, unsymmetrical, or too close together?

They've definitely gone with a military body armor kind of look for Batman, but I prefer that at least to the overly plastic look of a lot of Marvel movie characters. But as a result, lots of fight scenes in Batman movies look like Batman's moving slower than he should because of how heavy the thing must be.

>
>As far as photo ops Batman. That's a good way to put it. I
>was just like, that ain't Batman's style.
>

The whole movie/his whole first 2 years he’s been concerned about hiding in the shadows and being a symbol of fear. Obviously when he’s fighting criminals, that’s a good thing, but when the people he’s saving say “please don’t hurt me,” he’s not having the intended effect. By the end, he realizes he has to become a symbol of hope for the good people in Gotham. And once the mayor’s son decides to trust him, everyone else starts to as well.

Really liked how it was a critique on the brutal vigilante stuff he does for most of the film. But the helping part seemed kind of half-assed and an afterthought, script-wise. Maybe they thought instead of Batman saving the day with heroic rescue efforts, they wanted to show him as just another citizen pitching in. It was such a good point, just wish it had been executed with more power.

https://youtu.be/FBeccCU_pEE

Not crazy about this to be honest. I’m kind of joker’d out.

I understand he’s drawing influence from Bermejo’s Joker but you can only go sooo dark in what is already a pretty dark movie. Would’ve liked to have seen some contrast from this portrayal of Joker, maybe someone more flamboyant? I think I’m glad this was cut.

>https://youtu.be/FBeccCU_pEE
>
>Not crazy about this to be honest. I’m kind of joker’d
>out.
>
>I understand he’s drawing influence from Bermejo’s Joker
>but you can only go sooo dark in what is already a pretty dark
>movie. Would’ve liked to have seen some contrast from this
>portrayal of Joker, maybe someone more flamboyant? I think
>I’m glad this was cut.

Batman needs to kill the Joker in every universe.

I'm not interested in that dude anymore at all.

Studio and investor influence is probably gonna push for him to be the main villain in the next sequel. I want a live action version of the Court of Owls.

it's so beautiful to watch well-shot, gritty action scenes again. undefinable quick-cuts and weightless CGI are probably my least favorite trends of the past decade-plus. all the major scenes here are just so..."Batman". perfect.

the script lets the movie down at times and it for sure runs too long in overindulgence, but Reeves gave us peak Year One Batman in a stunning presentation. and that's worth a lot.

https://www.joblo.com/the-batman-hbo-max-2/

Rewatching The Batman and realizing that The Penguin could have been cut out of the film entirely and this would have been about two and a half hours. And a better film. Mainly because although I’m sure some folk enjoyed the bit of zaniness he added, he doesn’t really fit the mood of the rest of the film. It’s kind of like Jack Black popping up in Seven (an exaggeration but you get the idea).

Insert Falcone as the club owner who Batman confronts in the scene that introduces Catwoman and cut all the other Penguin scenes, including the long car chase. Doesn’t really affect the plot at all.

I have this unproven conspiracy theory that they wanted the film to be longer because the “success” of any project on streamers is based on how many millions of minutes of it are streamed. A 180 minute movie watched front to back would look 1.5 times more popular than a regular two hour movie. That is a whole other thread though

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

take a pick which one, you could excise several

a repeat viewing really shows how much shorter this should have been

Similar to the MCU and Disney Plus. I watched it a second time at home on HBO Max but i still dont have this strong desire to ever watch it again.