I think there's no possible way to discuss this in the other thread without it spoiling it.

Can we use this thread for spoilers?

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(Added so people don't see spoilers)

I Zimbra by Talking Heads is the first song.
3 is the Magic Number by De La Soul is the last song.

de la. this was a tweaked version right? seemed like they let the samples play a bit more and had some new vocals on the hook. sounded like a 96 kbps rip tho lol

Because...what are we saying here? You brought him into the universe for less than 10 minutes just to zap him back out, but also leave a drop of symbiote? Does that mean Tom Hardy is done with Venom? I know this whole thing is about the multiverse but I don't see them having multiple Venom characters at the same time.

My best guess from what we have now is that that symbiote jumps from Mexico and finds the MCU version of Eddie Brock to find Spider-Man as originally planned, but that could be far-fetched.

Edit: Did anyone else catch any standout figures when reality was tearing around the Statue of Liberty? I could make out OG Rhino with the basic skin-tight suit, but I'd have to scour the frames to make out anything else.

>My best guess from what we have now is that that symbiote
>jumps from Mexico and finds the MCU version of Eddie Brock to
>find Spider-Man as originally planned, but that could be
>far-fetched.

I think it finds this universe’s Eddie and the new Eddie would have to be played by Hardy. He’s just too popular. But I agree it was a bit disappointing at face value.

>
>Edit: Did anyone else catch any standout figures when reality
>was tearing around the Statue of Liberty? I could make out OG
>Rhino with the basic skin-tight suit, but I'd have to scour
>the frames to make out anything else.

Same. Only saw Rhino. In the earlier spell-casting scene I think I saw Infinity though.

Well, what if that drop of symbiote finds Parker instead?

>Well, what if that drop of symbiote finds Parker instead?

I mean they’d almost certainly do it better this time around, but I’m not sure who wants to see it. Also, like Maguire, Holland may be too nice and likable to play dark Spidey.

Don’t read if you don’t want this spoiled. But I heard that it’s going to be
























Flash Thompson. Which kind of makes sense. We will see if the kid can pull it off

Because Flash is Agent Venom in the comics, so that's not a spoiler.

It's a pretty simple conclusion.

But I am curious if you heard this from someone who is plugged into the writing team at Sony or Marvel, or someone who is.

IMO, if they go with an MCU Venom who isn't an alternate version of Eddie Brock, I think the most logical choice Mac Gargan, Michael Mando's character from Homecoming, since he had a fairly significant run as Venom in the comics.

That would tie in with the long-rumored plans for a Thunderbolts film/series.

But if it's Flash, I just don't see it. I don't see that kid getting cast with an eye toward a future run as Venom.

https://youtu.be/wht7HdfzN2Y

I really like what they gave us here. Wanda's out there thriving solo-dolo, "What If..." Strange is fucking canon now, and I never even thought of bringing America Chavez (denim jacket with the star on the back) to the screen, but the little I know of her, it makes total sense.

Mordo was already gunning for Strange and other wizards*, but now he has a legit and valid point. I'm sure they have nerfed Wanda's abilities for the sake of making this a fair fight.

*Ever since Thor said "Oh, Earth has wizards now?", the term wizards in the MCU has sounded so derogatory and demeaning.

this is what you meant about what if being canon in the other thread, dr strange? i was thinking the same. definitely interested in where things go from here.

Tobey's goofy ass face was back - I don't know how he contorts it in that manner, but by golly he can still do it.

And Andrew Garfield was so much better in this one than his 2 films.

The 3 Spidermen making cures for the villains scene was unexpected and really good for me.

Also: The Green Goblin is like The Joker to me - you HAVE to kill him - he's too destructive to try to 'cure.' Cost Mae her life.

>
>And Andrew Garfield was so much better in this one than his 2
>films.
>

the only great thing about his movies actually.

Stole every scene he was in. I think this got across the character better than Spider-Man 1 did. With any goblin character, it’s easy to ham it up by accident. He never lets that happen. Instead, his face and voice twist just enough in each scene to make you feel bad for him while also being terrified. Incredible performance.

agreed. He had ME fooled when he was at FEAST acting all sorry and sad and flabby and sick (c)

dude is so good at playing him. i get frustrated watching him play goblin because of how easily he goes back and forth.

Those performances hold up insanely well.

I love Dafoe in these.

Depends on how you define Loki to be sure, but I think Kingpin owns that mantle for me.

I loved the Donofrio Kingpin portrayal

He's so good but I almost want them to CGI him a little bit in the MCU now so he's a little more intimidating looking like the comics.

He's already physically imposing as-is.

But CGI some features and he'd be terrifying.

Hard for me to compare the TV Marvel guys to the movie Marvel guys, tbh. Just a different type of storytelling. D'Onofrio rules, would love to see him as the heavy (pun intended) in a big Marvel movie to watch him do his thing.

They both picked up where they left off.

Let's not act like his turn as the Mad Titan wasn't epic. Had people thinking genocide really was a good idea...

That said, Molina and Dafoe did give outstanding performances and gravitas to their characters at a time when superhero movies didn't ask for it (or could pull it off, really). To walk the line between fine acting and camp is an art, and they pulled it off then and now.

Damn Willem was great in this movie....

I'm mad I forgot about Thanos in that discussion.

Dislikes: Of all the enemies, Sandman had the least going on. Granted, THC didn't have much to do in Spiderman 3 either, but with your other enemies were cracking, his lack of anything substantive was notable.

Some of the meta conversation was a bit too on the nose. The 'black Spiderman' line in particular was a little much (but played well in the theatre).

Likes: damn near everything else. Dafoe BROUGHT IT. He knew exactly how to bring the manic Osborne energy and did it in spades. So glad most of the trailers was focused on Molina (who was killer too) so everyone could experience Green Goblin without any notions. Garfield was better in this than either ASM movies, which was great to see. The mirror universe bit was awesome, and having Pete figure it out with math was perfect.

This was a bunch of big swings in this. They basically did 5/6 of a Sinister Six movie, pulled off the classic Goblin and Electro suits, redid the One More Day storyline from the comic, and did a live action reenactment of the opening scene of the Spiderman PS4 game and pulled it off, all while keeping it very much a Spiderman/Peter Parker story more than a Marvel story. That takes some serious writing. I'm super impressed.

Oh, and not sure if I was happier of seeing Matt Murdoch or Stewie in this...

Re: the PS4 comment - I think the statue of liberty battle resembled the electro fight from that same game (one of the best boss battles I've experienced)

That's what this was.

And May? Salute. That was hard. I like this May/Peter combo better than any other. Because more than any other, that bond felt real.

And her death, after imparting so much of her worldview into Peter, her insistence on doing the right thing, on helping people, knowing the potential danger, man... I don't know. I'm mad at her. She's naive, etc.

But that was probably the best, hardest earned death I can think of in a superhero flick. And it's not like she's in every scene. But every scene they're in together, in all three films, that love and affection shines.

So her death scene was important to get right. And everyone nailed it IMO. There is no weak link there. Every choice was on point IMO.

you felt peters pain while in the first spiderman movie you just understood it.

having toby's here to mentor tom through this was great. although we see him still going after goblin at the end maybe this keeps this spiderman more level headed.

the scene at the donut shop (bruh i wish they had de la in this as their donut shop lol) at the end almost got me to. i thought mj and ned were going to kiss and that was gonna trigger peter. it was nice to see him happy to see them..happy.

>the scene at the donut shop (bruh i wish they had de la in
>this as their donut shop lol)

Glonuts, even.

Ben is already dead coming into the MCU Peter's version. Why do it again? Yes May dies in the comics but Pete is a bit older by then.

And yet, Peter is defined by tragedy and loss. Always has been. So if you want a full on reset back to comic sensibility I suppose you have to strip him of all the MCU niceties. Friends gone, check. Father figure gone, check. Family gone, check. Smmart but broke? Check. Sense of hope against hope? Check, check, check. I'm intrigued to see how it goes from here.

I suppose starting him out in the MCU younger makes more sense now. He can have the MCU trappings in his youth, which wasn't really explored much, but by time he's come of age he's back to where most people know Peter Parker to be.

May kind of had to die for this particular story.

We really need to give her all the flowers too. She was a great May.

Personally, I always thought starting him out as a high school kid made sense though.

Rami gave the best representation of May from the classic comics, and Harris played her perfectly. I wasn't mad at wither Fields or Tomai, as they worked for the movies they were set in (plus I love both actors and glad they got big budget movie screen time and checks). But the classic May is what wins for me.

All that said, how May was characterized and how Tomai played her was great, Aunt Bae memes aside.

I liked the high school angle as a way to sidestep sooooooo much history and baggage and lore. With the end of No Way Home, they have the opportunity to lean into some of that now, even if you probably sacrifice 2 of your best villians off the rip. Nobody wants to see a new version of Ock or Goblin now, right?

Just because there is no Oscorp in this world, that can easily be retconned to "yet".

Same with Ock.

Granted, they'd need to jump through some hoops to get there, but it's not much of a stretch IMO.

Far as aunt Bae, they struck a decent balance there. It would have been cool to see her grow into a more traditional May. I have no beef with the classic May portrayal but I just think they made all the right choices to freshen up the character as a whole, and she was a huge part of that.

I also think this gives them a good opportunity to elevate other villains. Kraven, for example, and I think Gargan is the pick for Holland's Venom.

You got HUGE shoes to fill to make another version of both iconic characters, and I don't know if anyone gets out of the shadow of Molina or Dafoe for either role. You could end up with Ledger's Joker. Or you could end up with DeHaan's Goblin. Not sure it's worth the risk. Still in Feige we trust, so I'm sure whatever direction they go, it will be OK.

I do agree with Aunt Bae. For this iteration of Spiderman, it works to have a younger Mae, and Tomei and Holland really worked well together. But white haired Mae is always my favorite, if nothing for nostalgia.

They could do a Hobgoblin storyline. Plenty of people wore that mantle, not just Ned Leeds (I actually had ASM #289 where they finally revealed Ned as Hobby)

I don't think either of those portrayals are all that singular.

Great performances, sure, but I don't see either as so towering that a new iteration can't compete at bare minimum.

Plus, it's been well over a decade for both- this film notwithstanding.

We are already conditioned to see multiple iterations of characters, and often with good affect.

McAvoy and Fassbender's turn at Xavier and Magneto spring to mind- regardless of how poorly the films themselves were executed, they nailed those characters. They did so with a much smaller gap between theirs and the original version.

Moreover, Stewart and Mckellen were far more iconic in their respective roles than Molina and Dafoe were in theirs, and I don't really think that's up for debate, though it's obviously somewhat subjective.

That isn't to say that Sony necessarily will or can yield similar results with new iterations of Ock and Goblin- lord knows they're their own worst enemy in these films- but I think any sentiment that Molina and Dafoe put in such towering, iconic performances that they're going to be *that* difficult to match is just that: sentiment.

In the classic Spider-Man stories she's around 60, Marissa Tomei is around the same age... Not her fault comic Aunt May got strung out on Hash and aged badly.

It’s never referenced as being significant to Spider-Man’s origin, so I’m guessing Uncle Ben didn’t have a big part in raising him and died in an completely unrelated way.

Simply because I thought Marisa Tomei was way too hot to be anyone's Aunt May. But I guess you are right. I've seen Uncle Ben die too many times for it to have any impact on me. You are right, this is the hardest earned death I've ever seen in a superhero flick. I was not ready for it and felt it...which is how we are supposed to feel when "Uncle Ben" dies.

Seen these MCU movies forces me to abandon a lot of my traditionalist views when it comes to superhero movies. I've got to let it go and allow these movies to be updated so my kids get the same feeling from it as when I was a kid. I felt this one.


Logan still trash though.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>Seen these MCU movies forces me to abandon a lot of my
>traditionalist views when it comes to superhero movies. I've
>got to let it go and allow these movies to be updated so my
>kids get the same feeling from it as when I was a kid. I felt
>this one.
>
>
>Logan still trash though.

When watching with my son, I try to only give him the basics of the character and story, because he hasn't read (and may not be able to read) any of the original comics and storylines from the 70s and 80s I grew up on. Hell, he didn't see the 90's animated series (which I didn't like for the same reason). Divorcing the lore from the comics and watching the MCU is like watching a movie 'inspired by true events', but not based on them to the letter. Letting go of that helped immensely so we both can enjoy the movies

I'm happy for the people that have lost their minds over this. I skipped the Garfield movies and feel a little bad about it if only because he basically stole this one out from under my feet. I love the idea of a Sinister Six story - especially after the Spider-Man video game - but it just didn't play for me without that emotional attachment to all the villains.

I also couldn't get over how confusing and silly the setup for this whole situation was, and from there couldn't stop going scene by scene wondering about capitalism vs. creativity, sadly.

The most exciting stuff for me was the last half hour, where it seemed like Sony was hinting at Spidey getting away from the greater concerns of the MCU and taking some time to figure out who HE is. That's literally ALL I WANT from the Holland Spider-Man. ...And yet even then, maybe Holland bows out and doesn't play the role?

Loved seeing Dafoe as the Goblin again, though. I get it. Other than Brolin's Thanos comic book movies famously struggle with their villains and Dafoe's take on Osborne is a no brainer. Just didn't get why Lizard, Sandman and Electro had to be involved as well - other than it makes Maguire's involvement make sense, despite reminding me of a similarly flimsy movie.

It's weird. Had a great time, was never bored, but left the movie thinking it'd be cool if I'd not seen it at all considering how much of it was dedicated to "I know what that is" and "I remember that moment" scenes.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
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Agree with nearly every word. Wished I could've been one of the people who was cheering and so emotionally engaged... but I wasn't, for basically all the reasons you mentioned here.

Also, the Garfield movies are really bad. Garfield's the MVP of this movie, he's terrific here-- but the nostalgia I see developing for those movies is bizarre. Like, people cheered in my theater when Jamie Foxx appeared as Electro! He was very bad in a very bad movie! Why are we happy about this? Genuinely made me curious if audiences would cheer if John Travolta rolled into a future MCU movie as The Punisher from another multiverse-- or if Jennifer Garner popped up as Electra, lol. Like, are we experiencing genuine nostalgia for things we enjoy... or are we just feeling pleased whenever we see Marvel (or Star Wars, or any major cinematic universe) go back to any familiar well?

But I'm happy so many people loved it. It's always fun being part of a theatrical experience like that. Way less fun feeling left out, lol.

Man the only Marvel movies had me shedding tears. The last forty minutes of Endgame and this scene. Flawlessly executed.

but eventually has to go back to their rocky birth family. The heavy Sony branding in the end credits seemed to really underline a message of "Thank you for your service, Marvel, we've got it from here..."

I liked the movie. But sad what a thorough de-Marveling this was of Holland's Spiderman.

You get the feeling that things are going to be a lot less fun for the character from here on out, even though he definitely feels more like the comic book Spiderman now.