Saw it for a second time yesterday, and the things I didn't like the first time didn't get any better on second watch.

Again, still like the movie quite a bit, but just because there are explanations for some of the developments and how they fit thematically doesn't mean all are executed well.

Apologies if you addressed the stuff here later in the thread; haven't read through it all yet.

(Also, you might as well have named this list "THINGS THAT PISSED STAR WARS NERDS OFF THAT I LIKE. LOL NERDS LOL.)


>1. The Leia ejection/return to the ship. I audibly gasped.
>Reminds people why all these younger people still fuck with
>Leia like that. Reminds people of the strength of the force in
>the Skywalkers. Great narratively, great character-wise, great
>from a suspense/thrill perspective.

Had no problem with this. Didn't blink an eye first time I saw it, then watching it the second time with "Mary Poppins!" stuff on my mind, it still didn't bother me. She's force sensitive and a potential Jedi, so flying through space like that isn't a stretch.

>2. The casino sequence. From a thematic perspective, literally
>the WHOLE FUCKING MOVIE hinges on this sequence. From a
>narrative perspective, it's completely justified before and
>after. Furthermore, it's one of several moments in the movie
>when the heroes' plans don't work-- which I found *thrilling.*
>I literally can't believe that people don't like this. I also
>can't believe people who love The Force Awakens with that
>WACK-ASS OCTOPUS-LOOKING MOTHERFUCKER CGI SEQUENCE where they
>waste the actors from The Raid have the audacity to complain
>about the CGI in this sequence. The CGI during the casino was
>better than the five worst CGI bits of TFA.

Yeah, I read that article too. Still doesn't work in the story. As I said above, the whole thing of "The Resistance isn't fighting the REAL enemy! They're actually helping them" played like PG-13 GoT stuff at best and bad high schooler fan fiction at worst. The CGI was fine (I did like the escape at the end), but in terms of execution, I'll take the Han Solo vs. Kanja Club.

>3. Luke projecting himself into the fight. Luke's entire
>narrative was about denying himself the Force. It makes
>perfect sense that his final act is using the Force to an
>extent we've never seen before. He was so connected that he
>was able to project to everyone in the area. They set this up
>with plenty of context about how the Force is with every
>single person, so if Rey, Ben, and Luke can see one another
>via the Force, it makes complete sense that a master of the
>Force can find a way to summon enough strength/conviction to
>make that event happen. Again, loved loved loved this turn.

This worked well. Never had a problem with it. I'm not in the camp that this film "ruined" Luke or whatever. If he's a bad-ass the entire movie, then there's no character arc. Him becoming the legend at the end of the film was the logical place to go after showing that he'd given up for the first 3/4.

>4. Luke's death. He becomes one with the Force, much like Yoda
>did. He takes the mental toil on knowingly, summons everything
>within him, and does what needs to be done to save Leia, Rey,
>and the Resistance. I keep seeing people want him to Obi-Wan
>Kenobi himself in real battle. Why? His entire character arc
>was about learning to stop ignoring the Force and embrace it--
>it makes complete narrative sense for his character to use it
>to such a degree that he exhausts himself, finds comfort in
>his final act's success, and fades away.

See, I went into the movie expecting that Luke was going to die, and being fine with it. Then, as I was watching the movie, especially after the scene with Yoda's ghost, I thought, "Huh, looks like he's going to make it through alive. Makes sense." And then to kill him after that? Nah, didn't work. Because as Yoda tells him, it's was time for him to move on from past failures and find a new way of doing things. So then he makes a grand re-introduction and... dies. But hey, we did get the double sun call back...

I also want to add that there s a fundamental mis-understanding of that plot-point that a lot of people seem to be missing (not saying you're one of them, but I see this a lot). I read all the time that, "Now that they killed Luke that means they can move on from the Skywalker family!" ignoring that Carrie Fisher was still alive when the movie was shot. So it was never Rian Johnson's intention to move on from the Skywalker family. Hell, after Fisher died Johnson and Kennedy could fairly easily re-dedicated the film to "moving on from the Skywalker clan" by killing off Leia in the first 20 minutes and making the necessary changes during the re-shoots. But given that by all accounts Leia was intended to be a big part of the original plans for Episode IX, they never intended to "move on" completely from the Skywalkers.

>5. The kiss. Did I feel love sparks throughout between Finn
>and Rose? No. Did I think that a soft kiss in the literal face
>of adversity fit perfectly with both Rose's character and the
>overarching theme of celebrating tenderness and love in the
>face of hate? 100%. Didn't bother me in the slightest.
>Actually works even better the more I think about it
>afterward.

The kiss itself was fine. Everything else in that scene that lead up to that up to that kiss? Not so much. Completely redundant with Poe storyline and basically made Rose's purpose in the film to sacrifice herself for Finn, even if she didn't die.

>6. Rey's meaningless parentage. SO INSANELY THEMATICALLY
>IMPORTANT. Anyone can be the next Rey. This one I refuse to
>even debate.

Yeah, this was one of the best parts.

>7. Snoke not being some callback to a previous character. GOOD
>GOOD GOOD. If he was some older dude disguised as "Snoke," I
>was ready to fucking boo the screen. This reveal goes
>hand-in-hand with Rey's. Anyone can be the hero, anyone can be
>the villain. It's totally hard as fuck to be either. Snoke
>emerges somehow-- doesn't really matter how-- exploits a young
>dude who's hurting, climbs the ladder, electrocutes fuckers
>until his movement nearly wins. Sometimes the guy who tries to
>kill us all is our relative. Sometimes he's a shady government
>official. Sometimes he's just some random-ass asshole. If the
>Force is with all of us, we all have the capacity to turn
>super-dark. I had less than zero problem with Snoke being no
>one we previously knew. The fact that he died (a) similar to
>the Emperor, blinded by the hubris regarding his protege, and
>(b) not because someone made a turn, but because the killer,
>Ben, was just fucking tired of dude fucking with him and using
>him as a pawn. Everyone uses Ben, from his family and Luke to
>those on the Dark Side. Snoke being just an evil asshole and
>not someone with some notable lineage/secret background helps
>underscore that point.

Agree. Second best part of the film.