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Forum namePass The Popcorn
Topic subjectGame of Thrones (Season 7, HBO)
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=6&topic_id=720900
720900, Game of Thrones (Season 7, HBO)
Posted by j0510, Thu Mar-30-17 06:27 PM
Season 7 Premiere: July 16, 2017


Game of Thrones Season 7: Official Tease: Sigils

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq0B0NVKghA


Game of Thrones Season 7: Long Walk - Official Promo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxWfvtnHtS0
720930, i love how it's cold in the south now
Posted by makaveli, Fri Mar-31-17 03:30 PM
pretty much no chance of this not being awesome.
720990, I started watching over the holidays and binge watched it all.
Posted by kelvinmercerlookalike, Tue Apr-04-17 12:04 PM
I am officially hyped for the new season!


*CROCKER*

word booty.

HSUBAKCITS




http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/chowyunskinny/Gold%20Chef/iron_chef.jpg
721002, It's the last season right?
Posted by Heinz, Wed Apr-05-17 02:28 AM
I'm assuming a movie after?
721003, No.
Posted by j0510, Wed Apr-05-17 07:07 AM
Season 7 will be 7 episodes.

The final, Season 8 will be 6 episodes.
721031, 2 more including this one
Posted by makaveli, Thu Apr-06-17 03:15 PM
722218, Official Trailer
Posted by Melanism, Wed May-24-17 11:55 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giYeaKsXnsI
-------------------
http://blog.melanism.com
http://twitter.com/Melanism
http://seanlovesthis.tumblr.com
http://www.formspring.me/seanathan
http://www.last.fm/user/Melanism
http://www.flickr.com/photos/meldotcom/
722219, came here to post the same thing!
Posted by kelvinmercerlookalike, Wed May-24-17 12:21 PM
Winter has finally arrived.

was that Sansa and Jon Snow kissing?!



*CROCKER*

word booty.

HSUBAKCITS




http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/chowyunskinny/Gold%20Chef/iron_chef.jpg
722222, No, that was Ellaria Sand and Yara Greyjoy
Posted by Hitokiri, Wed May-24-17 02:03 PM
Not Jon and Sansa
722220, I'm ready
Posted by makaveli, Wed May-24-17 12:32 PM
I don't think there will be any slow episodes from now on.
722225, gat damn.
Posted by shygurl, Wed May-24-17 06:22 PM
this shit got me ready.
722228, uh where the fuck is Bran
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Wed May-24-17 10:12 PM
722230, damn that looks so lit
Posted by Madvillain 626, Thu May-25-17 02:22 AM
722231, It's about to be ON!
Posted by Case_One, Thu May-25-17 05:36 AM

.
.

"The unexamined life is not worth living." - Plato
722229, My pops is finally watching GOT.
Posted by Madvillain 626, Thu May-25-17 01:14 AM
He just finished Season 2.

"Wait...this show has zombies too?! zombie horses?!" lol
722322, Based purely off of conjecture...
Posted by phenompyrus, Tue May-30-17 06:46 AM
S7 will be Team Daenerys vs. Team Cersei, while Jon and company deal with the White Walkers, whereas as S8 will deal with the survivors dealing with the White Walkers... I think there will be meetings among the characters, but it won't come to a head until the final season.
722342, agreed
Posted by astralblak, Tue May-30-17 10:52 AM
.
722370, I'd like for Arya to be the one that gets Cersei
Posted by makaveli, Wed May-31-17 10:26 AM
I can't wait. I've pretty much given up hope for the books, like I don't know if they will ever happen now.
722371, RE: I'd like for Arya to be the one that gets Cersei
Posted by Numba_33, Wed May-31-17 10:30 AM
>I can't wait. I've pretty much given up hope for the books,
>like I don't know if they will ever happen now.

While I'm sure George R.R. Martin is getting hefty royalty checks for the sales of the past GoT books, he'd be a fool to pass up the huge sales that will come as result of him releasing a new book.

Plus I'd have to imagine he'd want to tell the GoT on his own accord just out of a sheer sense of pride. It is pretty wild he hasn't released another volume yet though.
722381, I want to see what happens with Baelish...
Posted by Madvillain 626, Wed May-31-17 02:00 PM
But I think he might get murked by Arya
722382, One can hope
Posted by Boogiedwn, Wed May-31-17 02:40 PM
>But I think he might get murked by Arya
722388, Arya's got a big ass shitlist n/m
Posted by wallysmith, Wed May-31-17 05:10 PM
723839, That she does
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Aug-01-17 01:09 PM
and I understand from a television viewer's standpoint why folks want Littlefinger to become worm food, but why should Arya have motivation to want to murk Littlefinger? She's not aware of how dirty he is as he's not on her original list, at least he isn't to my knowledge.
722947, Sansa ain't ever going to turn on Jon, Littlefinger might have overreached
Posted by J_Stew, Thu Jun-22-17 08:37 PM
on this one. I think back to the quote of him telling her, "we're all liars here, and every one of us better than you". Either she wacks him or Arya.
722890, Trailer #2
Posted by Melanism, Wed Jun-21-17 11:19 AM
Winter Is Here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mlhnt0jMlg&t
722895, I don't like the potential implications of that last line.
Posted by Cold Truth, Wed Jun-21-17 12:34 PM
722936, i'm hoping they are just keeping us on our toes
Posted by makaveli, Thu Jun-22-17 12:02 PM
722916, dammit man, this wait is eating me up inside
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Wed Jun-21-17 06:12 PM
Can't believe that was a full year ago almost.
722945, just put it in my veins right now
Posted by Madvillain 626, Thu Jun-22-17 06:37 PM
if they stick the landing, GoT is the GOAT tv show
723342, Who gets murked out tonight?
Posted by kelvinmercerlookalike, Sun Jul-16-17 08:05 AM
I have a feeling it will be someone like Melisandra or Sir Davos.



*CROCKER*

word booty.

HSUBAKCITS




http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/chowyunskinny/Gold%20Chef/iron_chef.jpg
723349, Hopefully Little Finger....painfully and slow
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Sun Jul-16-17 02:15 PM
723352, just rewatched last season's finale...help me out with this
Posted by 3xKrazy, Sun Jul-16-17 04:18 PM
what was the significance of using the little kids to murder maester parcell?
723357, they used to be Lord Varys' spies
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Sun Jul-16-17 06:04 PM
Before he left
723362, bit of a slow burn for so much hype.
Posted by Nodima, Mon Jul-17-17 12:32 AM
but that happened last year too and oh the places we went. still, it's a bummer the past two season openers have been tasked with showing us all the stuff we expected to happen and setting the table for all the stuff we expect to happen going forward but nothing much new.


the montage of Sam cleaning shit and his conversation with the arch maester was the highlight of the episode for me and it's weird when Sam is the highlight of anything.



~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
723363, This dude said Sam was the highlight over Arya's scene
Posted by astralblak, Mon Jul-17-17 12:36 AM
Ok...

But nah
723364, haha
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Jul-17-17 01:11 AM
Or the Giant fucking white walkers. Let them dudes tell their story. Gotta set it up, every episode isnt going to be Battle Of The Bastards
723366, tbh the Mission Impossible face mask stuff doesn't do it for me
Posted by Nodima, Mon Jul-17-17 02:36 AM
I know, I know, we've had shadow babies and dragons and unkillable mercenaries but for some reason I just can't buy the face and body morphing stuff. and maybe I've just missed something and she's actually slipping the skin over hers and putting on fat suits and walking around on platform shoes, but I just struggle with that particular form of magic. that's just me though, it was a great scene aside from that.

Sam gagging over a bowl of shit is more interesting than a shot of a CGI giant with blue eyes; call me when that giant is swinging a Dorneish elephant around.

and Ed Sheeran is Ed Sheeran.


my favorite episodes are the talky ones so I wasn't looking for a lot of action, and the hour felt like 20, but I was just hoping there'd be something there I didn't already expect to happen. Almost every GoT episode has some surprise or nugget of curiosity IMO but this was all (really well done!) table setting and that was kind of a bummer off last season's hit after hit after hit.


even last year's slow burn opener had that crazy reveal of Melisandre's true form at the end. man, season 6 was incredible.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
723369, Bruh, they have dragons, walking dead Giants and resurrections
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon Jul-17-17 05:59 AM
Why is body morphing a hard pill to swallow?

That shit was so dope. I thought it was a flashback at first. One of the dopest scenes and the best line of the whole series.
723402, I don't know 'cause I love Face/Off to death
Posted by Nodima, Mon Jul-17-17 02:52 PM
I don't know, Faceless Men plotline has just never been as dope for me in execution as it is on paper. I got no reason other than my gut


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
723381, I dunno man
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Jul-17-17 10:30 AM
the stuff with Jon and Sansa was very interesting to me; her saying she learned a lot from Cersei was pretty chilling to me given the context of the conversation the two were having after that brief blow-up.
723401, The Jon - Sansa - Littlefinger dynamic is gonna be great.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-17-17 02:23 PM
A lot of strong fan theories have already come to pass (or well on their way), we're just seeing the journey to get there.

That said, there isn't a ton of firm theories on Littlefinger (that I've personally seen, at least) so his eventual fate is still up in the air. I'm going to be paying super close attention to his scenes because while the books and show will differ in how they get there, his endgame is so wide open.

I still love that he's been the great architect for the most pivotal events in the show yet no one really knows this.
723404, As much as Jon did the right thing and we're supposed to get that
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-17-17 03:33 PM
I kind of agreed with Sansa.

Obviously they're coming at this from very different places (if Jon had been surviving the Lannisters in King's Landing instead of being at the Wall, he'd probably place less importance on honor.) But this was the same type of shit that got Nedd and Robb killed. Now I don't think that these kids are actually a danger, but there's a certain naivete to Jon's decision making process.
723405, RE: As much as Jon did the right thing and we're supposed to get that
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Jul-17-17 03:42 PM
>I kind of agreed with Sansa.
>
>Obviously they're coming at this from very different places
>(if Jon had been surviving the Lannisters in King's Landing
>instead of being at the Wall, he'd probably place less
>importance on honor.) But this was the same type of shit that
>got Nedd and Robb killed. Now I don't think that these kids
>are actually a danger, but there's a certain naivete to Jon's
>decision making process.


Initially when I watched the episode last night, I sided with Sansa since honor and valor generally aren't rewarded in the Game of Thrones universe. But at the same time, there are power in numbers and the more families that Jon can get under his rule, the better. That probably wasn't the reason Jon decided to keep those families within the group, but it doesn't serve him well to make those families get even more motivation to align themselves with another opposing power, especially since they are in proximity of The North if memory serves me right.


All in all, I suppose it depends on how cynical your worldview is in terms of who you side with.
723407, The not punishing children for sins of their father line was interesting
Posted by Y2Flound, Mon Jul-17-17 04:24 PM
Since basically John's entire life has been a punishment because of his father (and Ned's perceived) sinning.
723416, yea, I think he also probably has word how that honor Sansa spoke of
Posted by Nodima, Mon Jul-17-17 05:30 PM
worked against Robb in the long run.

different circumstances but dude died in large part because he didn't pay respect to longheld alliances, both through marriage and through treatment of house leaders.

John's done Hardhome and he's done the Battle of Bastards, he knows he needs numbers more than honor. Sansa is still playing the King's Landing game.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
723432, It really is going to take both of them together
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-17-17 08:34 PM
Which is probably what they're going to beat us over the head with the rest of the season.

A redheaded Cersei can't rule like that in the North, but Jon Snow always doing the right thing is just going to get him killed (again.)
723411, I got Sansa's side, but she should have brought it up behind the scenes
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-17-17 04:56 PM
She's right that Jon isn't gonna get anywhere copying Ned, but Sansa talking that shit in front of everyone only makes Littlefinger's wheels turn.
723428, there's a certain naiveté to sansa thinking she knows better
Posted by rob, Mon Jul-17-17 08:03 PM
she always think she's got it figured out and doesn't seem to remember that she at the very least accelerated a few stark deaths.

she didn't survive because she saw the board. she survived because she's almost always been a pawn and never a player.
723430, I'd argue she does see it
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-17-17 08:29 PM
And I don't get how specifically rewarding people that didn't side with the Boltons would be naive.
723433, i think jon understands better than her that nobody wins this
Posted by rob, Mon Jul-17-17 08:53 PM
her perspective is still framed by different ways of winning the game, just as her father and brother viewed loyalty as part of the game. it's a different perspective, but the same trap.

cersei's lost her entire family several times over and most of her allies, but sansa still only sees cersei as being a master player.

those children didn't side with the boltons, that was jon's point. they're potential allies and a potential means of reforging the kinds of traditions that might hold the north together against the winter.

it's the same thing d has been doing.

you can't look at it as punishment and rewards because what's coming doesn't honor those value systems. you gather as many people as you can and do your best to to take any of them for granted.
723441, That's a good point
Posted by Marauder21, Tue Jul-18-17 08:23 AM
And I agree, Jon did do what was ultimately the right thing.

But I also see where Sansa was coming from.
723456, RE: i think jon understands better than her that nobody wins this
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Jul-18-17 02:32 PM
>her perspective is still framed by different ways of winning
>the game, just as her father and brother viewed loyalty as
>part of the game. it's a different perspective, but the same
>trap.

Between the two of them, it's probably safe to say Sansa wants the Iron Throne more than Jon does, right?
723655, easily. jon dgaf about a throne
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Jul-24-17 08:29 PM
723455, that said, if she didn't reach out to Littlfinger, they'd all be dead
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Jul-18-17 02:16 PM
(except her, she'd go back to daily rapes and beatings)

i think she's still kind of feeling herself on being right about that.

THAT said, she never proposed that option to Jon. she just did it
723371, My apologies for being slow
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Jul-17-17 08:09 AM
but who were Ed Sheran (sp?) and his barbershop quartet fighting for? Their armor looked very similar to the one Jamie was rocking, but I can't imagine they are with the Lanisters since they are so humble looking and were actually nice.
723378, Lol yes, they were Lannister soldiers
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon Jul-17-17 09:16 AM
They weren't probably weren't a part of the Lannister family (definitely not apart of the Tywin branch), more likely just members of families allied to the Lannisters.

The Lannisters have (well had) an army of 10s of thousands of people. While those at the top may be corrupt, power hungery, maybe even evil... most of those beneath them have no illusions of power or of ruling. They're just people tryna make their way in the world.
723379, One of those dudes is going to overstep
Posted by legsdiamond, Mon Jul-17-17 09:53 AM
and she is going to use his face.
723383, Yeah, she was sizing up their weapons hella hard
Posted by BigReg, Mon Jul-17-17 11:49 AM
I give Ed's acting role a 50/50 chance of ending getting stabbed by needle.
723394, That was the point of the scene really
Posted by Y2Flound, Mon Jul-17-17 01:35 PM
>but who were Ed Sheran (sp?) and his barbershop quartet
>fighting for? Their armor looked very similar to the one Jamie
>was rocking, but I can't imagine they are with the Lanisters
>since they are so humble looking and were actually nice.

The one guy even said right on the nose "men go off and fight other men's wars"

They are just dudes who happen to live in the part of the country that fights for the Lanisters, but it doesn't make them all awful people. Arya realized when hanging out with them (and after killing every one of Frey's men) that there are a ton of innocent victims in this thing. It was the first time for her in a long time that every interaction wasn't just life or death and she got to just talk to normal people caught up in the same bullshit game she is caught up in.
723397, EXACTLY
Posted by Calico, Mon Jul-17-17 02:01 PM
she was ready to kill them from jump, but slowly started to relax once she realized they're really victims too ..... I thought it was funny no one asked about needle
723403, RE: That was the point of the scene really
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Jul-17-17 03:10 PM
>>but who were Ed Sheran (sp?) and his barbershop quartet
>>fighting for? Their armor looked very similar to the one
>Jamie
>>was rocking, but I can't imagine they are with the Lanisters
>>since they are so humble looking and were actually nice.
>
>The one guy even said right on the nose "men go off and fight
>other men's wars"
>
>They are just dudes who happen to live in the part of the
>country that fights for the Lanisters, but it doesn't make
>them all awful people. Arya realized when hanging out with
>them (and after killing every one of Frey's men) that there
>are a ton of innocent victims in this thing. It was the first
>time for her in a long time that every interaction wasn't just
>life or death and she got to just talk to normal people caught
>up in the same bullshit game she is caught up in.
>


That's a fair interpretation. It still suits her well though to move on from that crew since it's entirely possible someone else fighting for the Lannister banner will recognize who she is and try to kidnap and capture her. Not saying she can't hold her own if that comes to pass, but it probably suits her better to roll solo, or at least far enough away from anyone fighting for the Lannisters.
723409, Am I the only one who thinks Jon made the inarguably correct
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Jul-17-17 04:50 PM
choice?

First, if Sansa and Lady Mormont were really about that life, they should have been riding for the Glovers and the other two to meet that same fate. That would have nixed 5 houses from the Stark banner men.

Further, they’d have to completely destroy all those houses and their members from top to bottom, otherwise they’d leave the Lannisters with houses looking for a new flag to fly and an axe to grind.

Jon is thinking big picture and I don’t think he’s neglecting the details in the process. I think the fact that he made it clear that even women would have to fight should have made that crystal clear.

Sansa was talking about how ruthless Cersei is toward her enemies, yet doesn’t seem to gather how important it is for the north to have unity now more than ever. Much like Cersei, she seems too willing to take vengeance in the face of inviting greater collective harm to herself in return.

Jon’s act of mercy was every bit rooted in necessity as it was in altruism, and Sansa seems so caught up in the seeming weakness behind the move that she doesn’t realize that it helps better maintain a position of strength.
723414, Ultimately, yeah.
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-17-17 05:01 PM
I think alot of it is perspective/experience though

Sansa has experience with Cersei, Jon has experience with the Night King

but from a practical standpoint, i think Jon made the right choice
723417, yup. 54. n/m
Posted by Nodima, Mon Jul-17-17 05:32 PM

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
723443, you need alive people to fight dead people
Posted by makaveli, Tue Jul-18-17 11:26 AM
as many as you can get.
723453, It was ultimately the right choice
Posted by Marauder21, Tue Jul-18-17 01:48 PM
For the same reason bringing the wildlings south of the Wall was the right choice.

Doesn't mean it didn't get him killed.
723410, I'm assuming Yuron is gonna go after Elia Sand
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-17-17 04:54 PM
if he wants to give Cersei a "gift", and he can't really get at Tryrion. Elia's head, or a living Elia that Frankenmountain can torture indefinitely should suffice.

His "two hands" shot at Jamie was pretty funny. Same with Jamie saying how the Iron Born suck at everything.
723418, or not. since i forgot the sandsnakes are with Cersei and them
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-17-17 05:43 PM
i thought they were alone at this time. not sure what else he'd be talking about then. other than Tyrion's head, idk what kind of gift Yuron could give here that would impress.

723431, There were Martell ships sailing with Dany and they hosted
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-17-17 08:32 PM
the meeting with them, Oleana Tyrell and Varys at the end of last season. They're allied with Dany.

Cersei basically has their own people and Yuron Greyjoy and his people right now.
723423, I'm betting Euron going after Yara & Theon
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Jul-17-17 06:53 PM
With the Dothraki hoard, the Unsullied, and the Dragons, Dany is pretty much going to have undisputed control of the land and the sky. So I'm guessing Euron "gift" is going to be complete control of the sea. He's wants his vengeance against Yara and Theon for stealing his best ships and standing against him as king of the Iron Islands. I'm guessing there's some sort of Naval battle and he kills or both of them. So maybe his "gift" is going to be Yara's head.
723429, he said something along the lines of a gift dear to Cersei's heart
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-17-17 08:15 PM
Cersei doesn't even know who Yara is, so I don't think the head of someone she's never had contact with would move her much. Which is why i'd imagine it would be one of her enemies who she hasn't got at yet. Which leaves us Tyrion and Elia because they'd be the most personal. I suppose Sansa too, but that's impossible. I suppose Granny Tyrell could fit that too too but she didn't really *do* anything to Cersei
723466, turns out he said "a priceless gift"
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Jul-18-17 07:57 PM
which changes the equation slightly. still dont think Yara will cut it (Cersei knows Yuron wants to kill her anyway) but could mean Lady Olenna

723468, It's going to be the dragon horn
Posted by AZ, Tue Jul-18-17 08:59 PM
>which changes the equation slightly. still dont think Yara
>will cut it (Cersei knows Yuron wants to kill her anyway) but
>could mean Lady Olenna
>
>

I'm almost certain of it
723470, what's that?
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Jul-18-17 09:18 PM
723472, A horn that can supposedly control dragons
Posted by makaveli, Tue Jul-18-17 09:43 PM
723476, man, fuck you for making me feel like i asked "what's can opener?"
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Jul-18-17 11:59 PM
lol
723478, HAHA
Posted by Af-1, Wed Jul-19-17 04:44 AM
723473, well, besides killing Joffrey
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Tue Jul-18-17 11:10 PM
>that's impossible. I suppose Granny Tyrell could fit that too
>too but she didn't really *do* anything to Cersei

although Cersei doesn't know that. or rather, is too blinded by her irrational hatred for Tyrion to figure out.
723475, lol true
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Jul-18-17 11:49 PM
>>that's impossible. I suppose Granny Tyrell could fit that
>too
>>too but she didn't really *do* anything to Cersei
>
>although Cersei doesn't know that. or rather, is too blinded
>by her irrational hatred for Tyrion to figure out.
>
723766, you and Mynoriti were both right!
Posted by astralblak, Sun Jul-30-17 02:04 PM
and I called red witch returning to the castle in the GD post :)
723444, Sansa or Tyrion
Posted by makaveli, Tue Jul-18-17 11:29 AM
or maybe a certain object from the book that hasn't been mentioned in the show yet.
723451, trying to see how either is possible
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Jul-18-17 01:39 PM
Yuron may have people having second thoughts within Yaras group. The iron born are prone to flipping on their own.

Sansa would have to be Littlefinger but I don't see why he'd bite
723471, After thinking about it my money's on the object
Posted by makaveli, Tue Jul-18-17 09:42 PM
723419, it's a small gripe but i hate the way Arya
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-17-17 05:50 PM
rips off her masks

When Jaken Hagar (sp) did it he'd look the other way and turn around and he'd have a different face.

The way Arya does it reminds me of Austin Powers, or Scooby Doo
723434, this is part of my neg reaction to that stuff for me too.
Posted by Nodima, Mon Jul-17-17 09:37 PM

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
723445, CoSign! Its too Mission Impossible.
Posted by KnowOne, Tue Jul-18-17 11:48 AM
nm
723477, it was oddly and poorly executed, which is weird
Posted by araQual, Wed Jul-19-17 01:33 AM
the special effects are usually so on point it kinda took me out of the moment when the mask coming off looked so...cheap-lookin? lol.

V.
723484, That Scooby Doo reference
Posted by Numba_33, Wed Jul-19-17 08:38 AM
is going to make me laugh so hard the next time she does that Mask Off murdering thing. In addition to the cartoonish fashion you have problems with, the show does run the risk of over doing it with her character; it'll be interesting to see how the show treats her, especially since it appears she'll be rolling dolo for the most part.

I'm assuming she isn't going to travel with that bunch of Lannister grunts since I'm assuming that Sheran cameo was a one and done deal.
723420, I feel like 99% of the people who watch this show don't understand it
Posted by J_Stew, Mon Jul-17-17 06:06 PM
nothing too specific in this thread, just general observations of dialogue with people in real life and people commenting on the internet.
723421, It manages to appeal to all kinds of viewers
Posted by Y2Flound, Mon Jul-17-17 06:48 PM
The ones who like digging deeper and the nuances of great writing and the ones who like to be entertained for an hour and not look for more meaning in things.

Nether is necessarily the right way to watch it, but that is why it is smashing every HBO record, it works for everyone as opposed to say a show like Mad Men or The Wire that don't keep the just want to be entertained viewer glued week to week or Walking Dead which lost all of the digging deeper viewers long ago.

I also know this is a gross oversimplification of a lot of people's habits.
723422, Saw an article about Sansa having Cersai's old hairstyle
Posted by Y2Flound, Mon Jul-17-17 06:51 PM
In the scene where she was saying how she learned from her and Jon said she sounds like she admires her.

Interesting detail even if it's not foreshadowing anything.
723452, I skimmed that too. at first I thought it was reaching
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Jul-18-17 01:44 PM
But it mentioned Sophie Turner confirming it in an interview. I haven't read the interview though
723481, Two dueling lines in that were important, I think...
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Jul-19-17 08:23 AM
Jon and Sansa's exchange about Cersei "You sound like you admire her", "She taught me a lot"

and then Jaime and Cersei "We need allies", "You think I listened to father for 40 years and learned nothing?"

Sansa is a student of Cersei's scheming and bitching, but she hasn't got the strategic backing that Tywin gave Cersei. The North needs the Umbers and the Karstarks right now, but Sansa is focused on punishing those that she feels wronged her... Cersei knows it's ok to swallow her pride to accept an alliance whilst necessary.
723447, Pardon my ignorance once again
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Jul-18-17 12:43 PM
but now that all the male figures from the Freys are dead, who controls that bridge or throughfare that family controlled over the years? Do the Frey women hold control? The Lanisters? Thought I was ask because I think that bridge or throughfare was the sole reason that family had power, so I wonder who that now goes to.
723450, maybe Edmure Tully / riverrun.
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Jul-18-17 01:28 PM
They're the closest and Arya's fam
723483, Edmuir is the obvious heir.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Jul-19-17 08:31 AM
He's in a Frey cell somewhere so I guess he's defacto Lord of The Twins now all the Freys are gone.

Interesting to see how it plays out as he wasn't exactly Robb's biggest fan - his entire story arc has been governed by Robb reneging on that Frey marriage. He'd have every right to be a Stark sceptic.
723482, I'm guessing that's what the approaching Lanister army are doing.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Wed Jul-19-17 08:26 AM
They'll install a caretaker or just a "peace-keeping force" until it's decided which family will be given The Twins... the Lannisters aren't exactly flush with options right now though.
723608, I feel like Olenna's advice to Dany will be foreshadowing
Posted by icecold21, Sun Jul-23-17 11:57 PM
Especially after Euron's actions.

Dope battle too.

Missandei.

Who else is excited to see Arya going back to Winterfell?
Enjoyed the appearance of her direwolf, and the "that's not you" line was a nice reference to the same thing she told Ned about herself.

Littlefinger is gonna be a problem for Jon.

Jon meeting Dany next week will be fun. Pieces coming together.
723609, Always listen to Olenna. Always.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Jul-24-17 12:08 AM

> and the "that's not
>you" line was a nice reference to the same thing she told Ned
>about herself.

Remind me the context of this?

>Littlefinger is gonna be a problem for Jon.

I've always wondered if the show would inevitably end with Littlefinger on the throne. His love for those Stark women will fuck him up though. I also suspect he'll underestimate Sansa.
723613, Olenna is wrong in this case
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Jul-24-17 01:57 AM
The point of the show is that the Rulers must be servants of the people and protect their interests. Not lord over them like sheep. Acting without regard to the common folk is what got her father killed.

>> and the "that's not
>>you" line was a nice reference to the same thing she told
>Ned
>>about herself.
>
>Remind me the context of this?

First season Ned tells her about how one day she'll grow up to be a great Queen/lady of court. And she responds something to the effect of, "That's Sansa, that's not me."

723665, Olenna basically got her grandkids killed
Posted by AZ, Tue Jul-25-17 11:14 AM
>
>> and the "that's not
>>you" line was a nice reference to the same thing she told
>Ned
>>about herself.
>
>Remind me the context of this?
>
>>Littlefinger is gonna be a problem for Jon.
>
>I've always wondered if the show would inevitably end with
>Littlefinger on the throne. His love for those Stark women
>will fuck him up though. I also suspect he'll underestimate
>Sansa.
>


And I'm hoping Arya will put an end to littlefinger once she gets to winterfell.
723610, Man fuck them for that. What's the fucking point?
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Jul-24-17 12:13 AM
Unless there's a payoff down the the road they should have just left her out entirely.


723611, I think we see her and them again
Posted by Heinz, Mon Jul-24-17 01:37 AM
But she's just like Arya, shes got her own thing going for her right now
723612, I think the point was to show how much Arya has changed
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Jul-24-17 01:53 AM
It underscored the point of the scene with her and Hot Pie. What she's gone through has changed her so much that her own Direwolf, which is basically bonded to her, doesn't even recognize her anymore.
723616, I grasp the deeper meanings and all
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Jul-24-17 08:03 AM
But damn... This show has ripped our hearts out so much with the Stark kids for so long. Sometimes it's downright abusive with that emotional roller coaster and I think this was one of those times where bringing them together would have been a great Hollywood moment.
723619, wouldnt really be GOT if they did that.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Mon Jul-24-17 08:38 AM

>great Hollywood moment.
723651, RE: wouldnt really be GOT if they did that.
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Jul-24-17 07:37 PM
>
>>great Hollywood moment.

yeah, it's not going to that easy for her to just stroll on home.
723657, Nah. In fact I'd argue they're too far in the other direction
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Jul-24-17 08:51 PM
At a minimum, they've gone far enough in the other direction that it makes narrative sense to hit us with a few of those here and there. We got the last second rescue at the BOTB last season, for example.
723626, I think that scene...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-24-17 09:47 AM
was more to remind people that Nymeria exists.

I'm guessing we'll see them reunited in a deux ex machina moment.
723648, yeah i think nymeria comes back
Posted by makaveli, Mon Jul-24-17 04:49 PM
I hope so.
723662, Nymeria and Arya are too alike to hang out like that.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Tue Jul-25-17 04:28 AM
We've not really had them in the TV series, but Arya has warg dreams where she is Nymeria... I get the impression they're both loners. Predators. I took "That's not you" to mean, "following me around getting tickles under the chin isn't you, you'll do your own thing, but now you know I'm here you'll appear when I need you to... like if I'm about to get eaten by a bunch of your cousins."
723614, "ugh, this Greyworm scene is so lam... whoa nevermind"
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-24-17 04:01 AM
723620, hahaha my same reaction
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Jul-24-17 08:44 AM
that girl got a body on her but their scenes are so cringeworthy and seemingly pointless that i don't think the payoff is worth it. screen time is too valuable coming down the stretch here.
723623, Between Grey Worm's scene, Varys getting to live
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-24-17 09:11 AM
and Theon's cowardice, this was officially Eunuch Week on Game of Thrones.
723656, Nah, it's worth it
Posted by xangeluvr, Mon Jul-24-17 08:37 PM
For me she is the baddest girl around. She's stunning.
723668, >For me she is the baddest girl around. She's stunning.
Posted by kelvinmercerlookalike, Tue Jul-25-17 11:50 AM
straight up.

is it me or does she kind of resemble Lisa Bonet?
anyways, I know it's acting but the dude who plays Greyworm is a lucky mofo.


*CROCKER*

word booty.

HSUBAKCITS




http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/chowyunskinny/Gold%20Chef/iron_chef.jpg
723618, So Elaria (and Yara I guess) were
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-24-17 08:31 AM
the gifts for Cersei, then. Okay.

But that battle was BONKERS, and I love that this show can still surprise like that.
723621, i wasnt the least bit sad to see the sand snakes go
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Jul-24-17 08:47 AM
one of the dragons is gonna get caught up with that crossbow and I'm going to be crushed :-(
723646, they kept the hottest one alive
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-24-17 03:33 PM
but probably just so Cersei can kill her in front of her mom

>one of the dragons is gonna get caught up with that crossbow
>and I'm going to be crushed :-(

Yup!
723649, agreed
Posted by makaveli, Mon Jul-24-17 04:51 PM
loved dorne in the book, don't really like it in the show. besides the viper and the king who got killed, they are unlikable. even though they look good.
723650, Couldn't tell you shit about the Sand Snakes except which
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-24-17 07:25 PM
weapons they used.
723652, so Dany lost her entire fleet in the battle with euron?
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Jul-24-17 07:41 PM
that was an epic strategic fuck-up on her part. she had the lannister army outmanned yet comes up with the idea to starve out cersei and her army. pretty dumb.

also, what's so important about taking over casterly rock?
723653, I dont think that was the whole fleet, just Greyjoy portion
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Jul-24-17 08:15 PM
She still has the fleet she stole from the slavers

and Casterly Rock equals $$$$ and power

http://www.thewrap.com/game-of-thrones-101-casterly-rock/
723654, Symbolic and it leaves the Lannisters with nowhere to run to
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-24-17 08:16 PM
>also, what's so important about taking over casterly rock?

That's not just their actual home, it's also the center of the Lannister's economic power since it's where all of the gold mines are. We the viewers know those gold mines are empty, but nobody alive in Westeros knows that except Cersei. You take out their home and they're stuck in King's Landing with nothing but the resources they have immediately on hand.
723689, seems like if they took over kings landing then taking castlery rock
Posted by 3xKrazy, Wed Jul-26-17 08:25 AM
would be a mere formality.

instead they dicked around over a "symbolic victory" and allowed cersei to strategize as well as gather resources to defeat the dragons.

hard to argue that Yara and whoever else campaigned to strike right away wasn't in fact correct?
723690, There's merit to not wanting to be "Queen of Ashes"... n/m
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Jul-26-17 08:33 AM
723705, welp, now she's got ashes of her own
Posted by 3xKrazy, Wed Jul-26-17 04:38 PM
also does this presuppose that the only way she can defeat the lannisters is by having her dragons torch all of king's landing?

in mereen the dragons seemed to be able to recognize friend vs foe...
723723, If you've got a competitive advantage....
Posted by wallysmith, Thu Jul-27-17 09:06 AM
why wouldn't you use them? Especially when her core armies have serious flaws in a ground battle: the Dothraki would do poorly in city-fighting and the Unsullied don't have the numbers.

And I don't know what dragons you were watching, but the ones I saw only recognized Daenerys as "friend", fuck all the rest, hah.
723693, I do think Dany probably waited too long
Posted by Marauder21, Wed Jul-26-17 09:50 AM
And there's going to be some lessons learned from this. But there is something to actually gaining allies in Westeros BEFORE you blow everything up.
723702, Everyone thinks there are gold mines on Casterly Rock
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed Jul-26-17 02:56 PM
Tywin told Cersei they're dry, so only Cersei knows there's nothing there.
723691, this still feels like fanfic tho
Posted by Madvillain 626, Wed Jul-26-17 08:34 AM
I dunno I'll still watch because I'm invested in the characters and love the spectacle but the writing just isn't as potent and rich as it was in the first 3 seasons,

Feels a lot more "soap-opera with dragons" now.
723692, Its not the writers fault tho; we in the landing phase of the flight
Posted by BigReg, Wed Jul-26-17 09:10 AM
>I dunno I'll still watch because I'm invested in the
>characters and love the spectacle but the writing just isn't
>as potent and rich as it was in the first 3 seasons,
>
>Feels a lot more "soap-opera with dragons" now.

They can't shift the pieces like they were in the beginning because we only have what, 12 episodes to end the show and plots need to get closed. Sure the actual road we get there might be a little bumpy but we know:

Dany will sit on the iron throne and help fight the white walkers
John Snow's gonna be the main dude to take out the white walkers (expect a final sword showdown with the Night's king).

Cersei will lose...Jamie will try to help/redeem her but she's a wrap.

Tyrion will be the hand and will finally get the respect he deserves

etc.

They've hinted, nudged, drawn big red circles around these plotpoints.

The twists will be with the secondary characters but as far as the show...we all know where we are going

723699, Ending long shows is hard
Posted by Y2Flound, Wed Jul-26-17 12:56 PM
You build the show where it takes 10 episodes to get everything accomplished, but you can't end it that way too.

10 episodes of John Snow getting to Dragonstone to meet Dany would work in Season 1 but it won't work now so you have to speed it along.

Also, the show is a soap opera, it always was. The first episode ended with the Queen sleeping with her brother and pushing a witness out the window. It didn't just become one.
723720, Euron sure built those ships of his pretty fast haha
Posted by 3xKrazy, Thu Jul-27-17 08:34 AM
> but it won't work now so you have to
>speed it along.
723721, I was thinking the same thing
Posted by Numba_33, Thu Jul-27-17 08:46 AM
and it appears his ships are superior to the ones Yara and Theon stole; it appears his are reinforced with metal of some sort.
723707, Yep. It's turned into LOTR with more lots of blood and nudity
Posted by mrhood75, Wed Jul-26-17 05:29 PM
Giant wars between the personifications of good and evil.

And the books were never about that. There were no "good" wars.

They're building towards a very traditional resolution.
723709, They also could not be
Posted by Y2Flound, Wed Jul-26-17 06:15 PM
We all assume it's building to a happy resolution because we are used to that, but GOT has taught us better than that.

I can easily see them lulling us into seeing the happy ending and it not going that way at all.

I always imagined GOT not to have a clear ending as much as a "well this happened and the world will always continue" type ending. Something more along the lines of The Wire where we don't really get a resolution, but just an ending for the show with the message that the cycle will always continue.
723722, I'm hoping against hope....
Posted by wallysmith, Thu Jul-27-17 09:03 AM
that the major story beats Martin gave D&D are going to buck the trend.
723726, traditional? naw. it'll be a neat ending. but 6 years of GOT
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Thu Jul-27-17 09:39 AM
should've taught you to not expect traditional.
723710, the tv writers are direct and heavy handed
Posted by Rjcc, Wed Jul-26-17 07:17 PM
the book is complicated, layered, subtle and usually indirect. (from what I understand)

it's very clear when they're working off of their own material

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
723732, pretty much where im at
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Thu Jul-27-17 11:43 AM
which is fine if you like it, but its definitely different and doesnt leave me considering all the nuances and stuff like i used to
723741, they might be more nuanced if they took 10 years
Posted by Rjcc, Fri Jul-28-17 02:44 AM
to write each season

but really it's probably mostly a style difference and beginning by thinking about it as a TV episode. martin has unlimited pages to wild out in

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
723752, agreed nm
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Fri Jul-28-17 03:27 PM
723698, Also, Greyworm, anyone think they were gonna show it?
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed Jul-26-17 11:49 AM
723719, I was slightly concerned
Posted by 3xKrazy, Thu Jul-27-17 08:32 AM
>
723727, I definitely assumed they would.
Posted by phenompyrus, Thu Jul-27-17 10:01 AM
723724, I expect LittleFinger on the throne and Arya to die as she kills Cersei
Posted by j., Thu Jul-27-17 09:08 AM
People expecting the Dothraki and Unsullied to cakewalk in unfamiliar territory should holler at Dick Cheney and Dubya re: Iraq

Cersei will lead an insurgent war of attrition against Danerys
she'll lose in the end (thanks to Arya, who she'll never see coming)
Arya will get her revenge but pay the ultimate cost to the many faced God
before her demise, Cersei will inflict heavy losses on the mother of dragons
who will then have to deal with the Night King

They'll fuck each other up and destroy what's left of Westeros
LittleFinger will then ride in and claim victory for the good of the realm
with support from the remaining families

The End


723725, Arya heading Norf, though!
Posted by wallysmith, Thu Jul-27-17 09:11 AM
:)
723768, "fuck yo couch, nigga" - olenna tyrell
Posted by x49, Sun Jul-30-17 09:23 PM
one of my favorite characters on the show
723769, on some....oh by the way, i killed your son
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Sun Jul-30-17 09:39 PM
Gangsta shit
723770, jamie was getting shit on all episode lol
Posted by x49, Sun Jul-30-17 10:43 PM
euron had them bars too lol
723771, "finger in the bum?" being his best lol
Posted by araQual, Mon Jul-31-17 06:23 AM
V.
723772, RIP- Came into and came out of the show like the G she is.
Posted by BigReg, Mon Jul-31-17 07:19 AM
723775, And Jamie now has the proof he didn't know he needed...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 08:37 AM
... that Tyrion was innocent of Joffrey's poisoning.
723781, Petty on full to the very end, GOAT
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-31-17 09:09 AM
723773, Dany is getting dumber and pettier by the episode
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Jul-31-17 08:24 AM
i kinda feel like they had to go extra hard in making tyrion and dany extra stupid this season in order to give us some drama in their quest for the throne. I suppose there wouldn't be enough entertainment value in storming kings landing in episode 1 and getting an easy W..

while i understand jon's tunnel vision in regards to the threat of the night king...you'd still think he'd show at least a modicum of interest in aligning himself with Dany to defeat the lannisters. Jon didn't seem to offer Dany anything in return for her dragon glass.

Sansa and Bran...well that was awkward, lol.
723777, I wouldn't say they're stupid... (Tyrion and Dany)
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 08:49 AM
but rather they lack information. They weren't aware of Euron's strength nor Casterly Rock's insignificance. The moves were sound but it's not like they've been on Westeros long enough to be fully apprised of everything going on.

As for Jon and Dany... it can be argued that she has potentially greater leverage down the road since she did him a "favor" without even requiring him to bend the knee. Jon is a man of honor; he will feel the need to resolve his indebtedness to her for the dragonglass.
723778, you have to account for the possibility of unknown obstacles/enemies
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Jul-31-17 08:57 AM
>but rather they lack information. They weren't aware of
>Euron's strength nor Casterly Rock's insignificance. The
>moves were sound but it's not like they've been on Westeros
>long enough to be fully apprised of everything going on.

723787, Easier said than done.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 09:38 AM
There's no way he would have been privy to Casterly Rock's expired gold mines, Cersei's debt to the Iron Bank, or Euron's supernatural ability to rebuild a fleet. Uneven access to information has long been a tenet in the series and is a big reason why Martin's POV writing style is so effective.

It's easy to use a general blanket statement to support your position but it falls apart when the actual context is considered.
723809, I feel like you're making my point for me
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Jul-31-17 05:49 PM
>There's no way he would have been privy

right, there's no way they would be privy to anything...

therefore, the longer you dick around with roundabout strategies which you leave you out in the open and vulnerable (sailing expeditions, storming castles, etc.)...the greater the chance of something unseen happening. and the greater the chance that your enemy can devise effective counter-strategies (harpoon thingy for the dragons) and forge new allies (Euron).
723811, I feel like you don't understand your own argument.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 07:05 PM
Your initial post #152 called Dany and Tyrion out for being "dumber and pettier" and how the showrunners had them go "extra hard" in making them "extra stupid" this season in order to generate some drama.

There's a big, big difference between "extra stupid" and "lack of information". Are you arguing for the former or are you arguing for the latter? You can't have it both ways.

> therefore, the longer you dick around with roundabout strategies which you leave you out in the open and vulnerable

Are you even paying attention? Sure, it's fictional, but do the lives of thousands of innocent people mean nothing to you? What you're arguing goes wholly counter to the core of Daenerys' character over the course of seven seasons and has been re-emphasized every single episode thus far this season.

- She doesn't want to be "Queen of Ashes"
- Thousands of innocents would die if King's Landing were sacked with dragons
- The use of "foreign invaders" in the Dothraki and Unsullied would rally bannermen to Cersei's cause

These things align perfectly with:

- Dany protecting pillaged innocents even though it meant misplaced trust in Mirri Maz Duur
- Dany protecting the enslaved in Slaver's Bay even though she had no legitimate business in that foreign land

Like, their tactics are wholly defensible both thematically and strategically. Casterly Rock is still seen as the wealth capital of Westeros. The Martell army is strong in both numbers and skill. The Tyrell army has wealth. A siege on King's Landing needed the support of two great houses of Westeros to rally not just lesser houses but also the commonfolk.

What's the point of winning the kingdom if everyone just hates you? She would be The Mad King all over again... what would be the point of that?

> (sailing expeditions, storming castles, etc.)

Maybe you should watch with captions, because then you'd understand what the point of these scenes were.
723814, yeah, back in S4/S5 people were mad Dany was lingering
Posted by Nodima, Mon Jul-31-17 07:27 PM
but that was what her character was becoming. even if it was ultimately from a selfish perspective, she wanted and wants very much to be known not only as the rightful ruler of the free world, but the ruler OF a free world. she stayed until she was absolutely sure there would be no more Slaver's Bay whether it was stupid or not because it was the reputation she wanted to have.

Same goes for her time in Westeros. Until she can kill the specific people she has her sights on she's not going to take the shot, at least not until she's pushed to a point of blind, fiery rage, which I'm sure everyone in her camp needs to stay on the watch for and she will be tested greatly by something soon here otherwise they wouldn't keep hinting at it (or they totally would; Thrones!).

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
723820, LOL, yup, the show watchers were pissed at Dany in Meereen...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 09:37 PM
and that paralleled the sentiment of the book readers.

While most will agree that Dany's time in Meereen served to strengthen the nature of her character, many (if not most) will also agree that her time there was also kind of a slog.

Speaking of which, you may already know this if you're a book reader but if you're not....

*** minor spoilers if you're a non-book reader but will someday become a book reader ***

For the non-book readers, Martin coined "The Meereenese Knot" as the very, very long time he spent untangling the many entities that needed to chronologically converge on Danaerys in Meereen. This included many new POV characters, the impending slavers war, Drogons return and a way to get Dany back to Westeros.

The sheer scope of "The Meereenese Knot" eventually led to Book 4 being split into two volumes: A Feast for Crows (focused mostly on King's Landing) and A Dance of Dragons (focused outside of KL, including Daenerys). To put this into perspective, books 1-3 were released in 1996, 1999 and 2000. Books 4 and 5 were released in 2005 and 2011 (and likely no book 6 in 2017).

And because books 4 and 5 added so many new characters and threads that weren't part of the first three books, they are also largely regarded as the weakest of the series (book 4 because it was missing beloved POV characters Jon, Tyrion and Daenerys and book 5 because it was so long they had to cut out two major battles to put into book 6).

So... yeah. The malaise the show watchers felt with Meereen mirrored the sentiment felt by book readers towards Meereen.

There's a very strong argument to be made that if Martin had kept Book 4's narrative as tight as the first 3, the written series would be done by now and D&D would have had a LOT more written material with which to guide the show. Much like with ASOIAF, GoT will likely end up being at its best when it followed the first three books than when it followed books 4, 5 and Martin's scribbles on how the story ends.
723822, I've thought about replacing podcasts with the audio books
Posted by Nodima, Mon Jul-31-17 09:51 PM
but I don't think I'll ever read the books, at least not any any time soon.

that all makes sense though; the Dany stuff has never bothered me with the show, but I can totally see it feeling interminable following that timeline of the books you just put down. I'd never even looked into the publication dates of the books before, I'd just known it's been two decades.

One thing I'm totally grateful for the show eclipsing the books is I can freely read any and all book spoilers and just think, huh, cool, rather than "oh fuck is this ruining things?" if the horn book readers all thought / (hoped?) would be Euron's bounty had shown up, cool! if it didn't...less cool, but the show remains the show I've been watching. It's fun for me now because it's almost fan fiction in my understanding of the show; I totally get if the show doesn't feel like "fun" fan fiction for readers of the books, though.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
723816, lmao take your condescending personal shots and shove them up your ass
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Jul-31-17 08:29 PM
>
>Maybe you should watch with captions, because then you'd
>understand what the point of these scenes were.

you in here battling and getting pissy over a *TV SHOW*????? LOL.

the only one not understanding the argument is you, as you cannot wrap your head around the fact that wise people understand that they **are not omniscient beings and therefore DON'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION** and therefore recognize that there are potential pitfalls to all strategies...and that these potential pitfalls still exist with or without them knowing exactly what they are beforehand! yes it's a novel concept! smart strategists recognize where they might be vulnerable and consider potential worst case scenarios (like remember that crazy murderous fucker whose ships we stole...maybe he's mad about it?) and possible contingency plans. And then analyze the risk/reward before proceeding.

I woud respond to the rest of the points/questions in your very long post but you're a total cunt and incapable of having a normal adult discussion so I'm gonna pass on that. feel free to waste the rest of your night typing out a novel long response to this...i won't be reading it. go find another nerd at comic con to pick a fight with cause it's not gonna be me.
723819, Hey, my bad, I'm not trying to antagonize you.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 09:07 PM
But it's snark on Okayplayer, I'm surprised you're so affected by it. I just felt that the debate was going in circles despite giving what I thought was ample evidence for my positions (and if anything, nothing gets me more fired up than someone questioning my logic).

> you in here battling and getting pissy over a *TV SHOW*????? LOL.

We've both been here for like almost two decades. People have gotten pissy over far less, let's be honest.

(And yes, full disclaimer, I've spent much of my adult life thinking about this story. To me, if there's any TV show worth getting pissy about it, it's this one)

As far as this:

> the only one not understanding the argument is you, as you cannot wrap your head around the fact that wise people understand that they **are not omniscient beings and therefore DON'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION** and recognize that there are potential pitfalls to all strategies...and that these potential pitfalls still exist with or without them knowing exactly what they are beforehand! yes it's a novel concept! smart strategists recognize where they might be vulnerable and consider potential worst case scenarios and possible contingency plans. And then analyze the risk/reward before proceeding.

Sure, I completely agree with you. But context matters, right? Honest question, were there any flaws in my logic in terms of why Tyrion would advise those specific troop movements? I felt the show did an adequate job of explaining Dragonstone's maneuvers and I would be in here ranting if they didn't.

I have no problem admitting I'm wrong but if I am wrong show me (with evidence) how I'm wrong.

> I woud respond to the rest of the points/questions in your very long post but you're a total cunt and incapable of having a normal adult discussion so I'm gonna pass on that. feel free to waste the rest of your night typing out a novel long response to this...i won't be reading it. go find another nerd at comic con to pick a fight with cause it's not gonna be me.

I mean, I'm all for having an adult discussion. I don't have the energy to go 30 posts on an ad hominem shitfest these days. Peace to you either way.
723875, apology accepted. my apologies as well for overreacting. let's move on.
Posted by 3xKrazy, Wed Aug-02-17 04:04 PM
because I do have some genuine questions for you or anyone else who wants to chime in.

>We've both been here for like almost two decades. People have
>gotten pissy over far less, let's be honest.

Yes, but over important real-life shit. Like sports!

>Sure, I completely agree with you. But context matters,
>right? Honest question, were there any flaws in my logic in
>terms of why Tyrion would advise those specific troop
>movements?

No, I don't recall questioning your logic and I don't think the strategy was illogical as much as it was convoluted, or unnecessarily complicated, or merely a strategy that *increased* the chances of encountering negative events.

But we move on.

Just a few issues I want to bring up below. Note that these are more so questions and not statements and I'm willing to concede that I may be wrong on some or all of this.

*It seems like the board has accepted Dany's desire to not be 'Queen of Ashes' (a respectable outlook and consistent with her character) to mean that the *only* direct way to take King's Landing would be via the scorched earth/dragon route. If so, why would Dany tell Jon Snow that she has ample foot soldiers and she doesn't need additional help from the Northern and Wildling army? Would this not imply that she believes her Army could take King's Landing if she chose that route? Even without the North/Wildlings, Dany would have the Dothraki, Unsullied, Dornish and Tyrell armies...wouldn't they greatly outnumber the Lannister army who couldn't even take Riverrun from the Tully's?

*If the strategy is to "lay siege to the city and starve out Cersei and the Lannister Army"...would the innocent civilians not suffer the same fate? How do you starve Cersei and the Army but not the poor civilians?

*The supposed loyalty of the civilians of King's Landing to Cersei:
-Is this the same beloved Cersei who was shamed naked in the streets not too long ago?
-The same Cersei who just recently killed the popular young queen and religious leader? And blew up the Sept and thousands of other innocent civilians along with it?
-The loyal civilians who have been oppressed and abused and mired in poverty since the beginning of the show?
-Interesting how in just this past episode you had Jaime warning Euron about the capricious nature of the civilians. They love you this week and the next week they'll beat you in the streets or something to that effect.

I think these points would suggest that Dany winning over the locals (despite her foreign roots) wouldn't be as impossible as some suggest. Or to the extent that it would force her into risky workaround strategies for taking over KL.

And last one, I know it was discussed earlier in the thread when I mentioned it...but I'm just going off of memory here so please correct me if I'm wrong. But weren't the dragons 'selective' in who they attacked in the battle with the sons of the harpy in the fighting pit as well as the slave owners?
723955, All gravy. Cheers.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-07-17 10:31 AM
> *It seems like the board has accepted Dany's desire to not be 'Queen of Ashes' (a respectable outlook and consistent with her character) to mean that the *only* direct way to take King's Landing would be via the scorched earth/dragon route. If so, why would Dany tell Jon Snow that she has ample foot soldiers and she doesn't need additional help from the Northern and Wildling army? Would this not imply that she believes her Army could take King's Landing if she chose that route? Even without the North/Wildlings, Dany would have the Dothraki, Unsullied, Dornish and Tyrell armies...wouldn't they greatly outnumber the Lannister army who couldn't even take Riverrun from the Tully's?

Didn't see this until now so this may all be a moot discussion after last night's episode, but you're right, there is a vague disparity in terms of how the various armies have been described up to this point. That said...

The issue with the Dornish army was time: Ellaria Sand was on her way back to muster for battle but was intercepted by Euron. The Tyrells supposedly had numbers but were weak. The Dothraki do not do well in city fighting and the Unsullied are low in number (and both are the "foreign invaders" that Tyrion cautioned about).

Remember, Cersei's army is comprised of both King's Landing's garrison and the Lannisters. And Riverrun wasn't overtaken by force because it was clean up after a bloody war in which both sides were weary of attrition... not to mention Brynden Blackfish was a fearsome commander in his own right.

So yes, while a siege from Daenerys' combined armies could have worked without dragons, it would have been a protracted affair that may leave her weak against Cersei's allies still loyal to the crown.

> *If the strategy is to "lay siege to the city and starve out Cersei and the Lannister Army"...would the innocent civilians not suffer the same fate? How do you starve Cersei and the Army but not the poor civilians?

Starving the city of resources lowers morale for both civilians and troops, on top of potentially creating organic uprisings. If Tyrion's plan had worked as intended, it's reasonable to assume that Daenerys would hold the moral high ground against a Queen that was already (like you state) hated by the populace for eliminating her popular rivals.

> I think these points would suggest that Dany winning over the locals (despite her foreign roots) wouldn't be as impossible as some suggest. Or to the extent that it would force her into risky workaround strategies for taking over KL.

Right, winning over the locals was part of Tyrion's original plan. His mistake was assuming that Lannister power still centered around Casterly Rock, when that was no longer the case.

> And last one, I know it was discussed earlier in the thread when I mentioned it...but I'm just going off of memory here so please correct me if I'm wrong. But weren't the dragons 'selective' in who they attacked in the battle with the sons of the harpy in the fighting pit as well as the slave owners?

It wasn't explicit, but the fighting was too haphazard for Drogon to kill with discretion... not like he'd care either way. We've seen what happens when Daenerys isn't around, when even children are at risk from the dragons.
723830, Like Littlefinger said to Sansa.
Posted by TheAlbionist, Tue Aug-01-17 06:09 AM
Imagine every possible event happening and then you'll never be caught by surprise.

They hadn't been imagining any offense from the Lannisters, only defense.
723831, Easy to say when we're watching from a bird's eye view n/m
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-01-17 09:15 AM
723780, Tyrion knows politics and alliance-building
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-31-17 09:08 AM
He doesn't know military strategy, though (heroics at Blackwater Bay aside.)
723788, Grand strategy or military tactics?
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 09:48 AM
Because he's got an eye for both. Tyrion is adept at both the bigger picture and the ground maneuvers (to use video game RTS terms, he's great at the macro and the micro). There's a reason why he's undefeated at Cyvasse, after all.

Like I said, lack of access to information is why they lost these battles, not from lack of strategy. Jaime has always been a formidable general in his own right and remember that Cersei still is Queen Regent... it's reasonable to assume Qyburn has ravens in allied lands apprising them of any of Dany's troop movements.
723790, Hindsight is 20/20, but you've got to figure they'll head for The Reach
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-31-17 10:46 AM
probably sooner rather than later. They don't have much of an army and with Olenna attempting to starve out King's Landing, it's far more essential to Cersei than anywhere else.
723792, Exactly, hindsight is 20/20.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 11:17 AM
The siege on King's Landing wasn't going to begin until both the Martell and Tyrell armies were able to conduct the siege (as we saw last night, the Tyrells don't exactly have much military prowess).

When Euron pre-empted Ellaria Sand arriving in Dorne, there was no reason for Olenna Tyrell to move unilaterally on King's Landing. Her armies stayed at home while the Unsullied were still on their way to Casterly Rock.

As far as moving on The Reach, there's absolutely no way Dragonstone could have acted upon it in time. It's difficult conveying the sense of time in the show due to its truncated nature, but the Unsullied needed to sail down the Narrow Sea south of Dorne, around Oldtown then up past The Reach almost to the Iron Islands. Casterly Rock (on the west) and King's Landing (on the east) are at almost the exact midpoints of Westeros on opposite coasts.. and Dragonstone is *north* of King's Landing on the east. In contrast, from King's Landing, Highgarden is closer than The Twins and only a little bit further than Riverrun. The Roseroad is also one of the most highly traversed in the kingdom, so there would be little to hinder Jaime's army.

> it's far more essential to Cersei than anywhere else

There's no way Tyrion would have known this. Again, the empty gold mines in Casterly Rock are not public knowledge; there's no reason to assume The Reach is "essential" to Cersei if he thinks Cersei still has the virtually unlimited wealth of the mines.

723795, Huge difference is those who have and haven't seen the night king
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-31-17 12:13 PM
For John, Bran, Sam, Torumund and them, nothing else matters. The red witch and the hound have seen the visions so they're on it too. Everyone else is thinking, yeah whatever, we got shit to do.

I don't think Dany is stupid as much as she's playing by different rules as Cersei. Cersei wouldn't give a fuck about civilian casualties. Dany's also feeling herself a bit much these days. With good reason but it's affecting her edge.
723817, RE: Huge difference is those who have and haven't seen the night king
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Jul-31-17 08:34 PM
>For John, Bran, Sam, Torumund and them, nothing else matters.
>The red witch and the hound have seen the visions so they're
>on it too. Everyone else is thinking, yeah whatever, we got
>shit to do.

I agree on that. But Snow needed to or should've thrown a bone to Dany in this case since he wanted something in return..

>I don't think Dany is stupid as much as she's playing by
>different rules as Cersei.

yep, and that's a big problem. and now Dany has a whole lot of casualties within her own camp as a result.

>Dany's also feeling herself a bit much
>these days.

basically what i was saying with regards to her pettiness.
723779, Picture Jon Snow riding the dragon to King's Landing
Posted by j., Mon Jul-31-17 08:59 AM
he's half targaryen after all
dragon comes down and recognizes him as such
Danerys can't be risked, so Jon pays his debt to her by riding off and roasting half of KL
723782, Wonder if we're going to spend some time in Casterly Rock now
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-31-17 09:11 AM
It didn't show up on the map, but I wonder if that was to give us a surprise for when we finally saw it.
723789, And shout out to Bran, officially now the most frustrating Stark
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-31-17 10:42 AM
"I'm the Three Eyed-Raven."
"What does that mean?"
"I won't tell you, but remember when you got raped on your wedding night? I sure do!"

Fuckin weirdo.
723791, he's all spaced out in 3 eyed raven world
Posted by makaveli, Mon Jul-31-17 10:52 AM
cut the young 3 eyed raven some slack.
723793, I had an inkling of something when he first saw Sansa...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 11:21 AM
and displayed no emotion whatsoever. That was reinforced in the scene by the weirwood tree.

At this point, I think Bran is suffering from some sort of PTSD... lack of emotion may be what he needed to adopt to maintain his sanity from seeing all the presumably absurd shit that he sees on the regular. In other words, to do his job, he needs to divest himself from being emotionally attached to what he's watching.

Complimenting Sansa's wedding dress can then be interpreted as him showing affection towards his sister but also disclosing that he knows what happened that night.
723794, RE: I had an inkling of something when he first saw Sansa...
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Jul-31-17 12:08 PM
>and displayed no emotion whatsoever. That was reinforced in
>the scene by the weirwood tree.
>
>At this point, I think Bran is suffering from some sort of
>PTSD... lack of emotion may be what he needed to adopt to
>maintain his sanity from seeing all the presumably absurd shit
>that he sees on the regular. In other words, to do his job,
>he needs to divest himself from being emotionally attached to
>what he's watching.

This reminds me of the detachment Dr. Manhattan from The Watchmen had because of his power to traverse through time, and I suppose it makes sense since what is happening in the present is of little consequence to him.
723796, perfect comparison...
Posted by KnowOne, Mon Jul-31-17 12:22 PM

>This reminds me of the detachment Dr. Manhattan from The
>Watchmen had because of his power to traverse through time,
>and I suppose it makes sense since what is happening in the
>present is of little consequence to him.
>

This was the first thing I thought of too
723798, Yeah, he's been away from people for so long
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Jul-31-17 12:32 PM
The only people he's interacted with since splitting with Rickon were people who could warg, people who knew people who could warg, Hodor and the OG Raven. He doesn't seem to know how to talk to people who aren't expecting cryptic lines vaguely referencing the past.
723812, RE: Yeah, he's been away from people for so long
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 07:11 PM
>The only people he's interacted with since splitting with
>Rickon were people who could warg, people who knew people who
>could warg, Hodor and the OG Raven. He doesn't seem to know
>how to talk to people who aren't expecting cryptic lines
>vaguely referencing the past.

Hah, basically right?

His level of omniscience is so far above everyone's heads right now.

It's sad though because it also looks like he sacrificed his humanity for that power (thrust upon him unwillingly).
723813, CRINE. what a lil piece of shit
Posted by astralblak, Mon Jul-31-17 07:24 PM
but that's also shit writing
723827, LOL
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-01-17 05:33 AM
>"I'm the Three Eyed-Raven."
>"What does that mean?"
>"I won't tell you, but remember when you got raped on your
>wedding night? I sure do!"
>
>Fuckin weirdo.
723800, Sansa, Bran, and Littlefinger
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Jul-31-17 01:09 PM
should make for some interesting entertainment, especially once Littlefinger gets his hooks into Bran. That little spiel Littlefinger gave to Sansa was interesting since it pretty much described Bran's three eyed raven perspective on things.
723801, you think Littlefinger will get his hooks into Bran?
Posted by makaveli, Mon Jul-31-17 01:12 PM
723804, Good question.
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Jul-31-17 01:26 PM
Bran will probably see Littlefinger coming from ten different directions, so probably not. The three of them together should still make for interesting storylines though, at least I hope they will.
723806, Yeah, if anything Bran can tip of Sansa because he sees all
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Jul-31-17 03:50 PM
723807, This has long been an interesting quandary for book readers.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 05:23 PM
Since Bran has access to weirwood.net, what's to say he can't just tell all the "good" principal players what to do, when to do it, and how to do it? Can't he just make sure that Cersei falls, the Others are defeated and the North survives? We know he has very limited ability to influence past events but what is his presence in the "now"? Where do his motivations lie? Does his power to see the future enable him to "change" that future? How many permutations of the past/present/future can he see?

Storylines always get tricky when dealing with time travel since there's always some sort of silly way to wriggle out of dire situations. I have no idea what Bran's endgame will be in Martin's book but I really hope they handle it correctly in the show.
723815, it makes me wonder for you book readers
Posted by astralblak, Mon Jul-31-17 07:30 PM
how close is what we see of Bran on the show to the Bran in the book. I mean at this point I have no idea what purpose he serves, if he speaks "in code" to humans, can't effect the future, and has to be careful about how he interacts with the past.

also for folks who keep talking about Martin's final book and what not, remember he told the show runners what he has and wants for the end. They just aint making it up
723818, RE: it makes me wonder for you book readers
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Jul-31-17 08:52 PM
>how close is what we see of Bran on the show to the Bran in
>the book.

Honestly speaking, Show Bran isn't *too* far away from Book Bran. At the end of Show Season 4 we were shown Book Bran from the end of Book 5 (the last one released). This was done so D&D didn't have to spend resources on Bran's arc during Season 5. Season 6 showed Bran's training, revealing Jon's parentage and Hodor, but who's to say how faithful to the books those three arcs were (especially on Jon's parentage).


I mean at this point I have no idea what purpose he
>serves, if he speaks "in code" to humans, can't effect the
>future, and has to be careful about how he interacts with the
>past.

Yeah, all good questions. No idea if there are "rules" he needs to follow as the Three-Eyed Raven, and no idea just how much impact he can have as Bran-the-crippled-Stark-kid.


>also for folks who keep talking about Martin's final book and
>what not, remember he told the show runners what he has and
>wants for the end. They just aint making it up

Indeed, there are major plot points that are going to be followed to a tee by D&D because those were decided a long, long time ago. It's the main factor that gives me hope that the series won't be tied up in a neat little Hollywood bow where everyone's favorite character goes home happy to their family. It's a dark, cynical, bittersweet story and the ending should reflect that.

723823, agreed
Posted by astralblak, Mon Jul-31-17 11:08 PM
I was just talking with friends that too many loved and hated characters are still alive:

Arya, Jon, Cersei, Jamie, Tyrion, Daenery, Greyworm, Misandei, Sansa, Little Finger, Brianne, Red Witch, The Hound, Varys...

when we think of the scope of the series (haven't read the books), there's no way more than 4 of those characters tops makes it to the end
723841, probably similar to the time travel paradox
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Tue Aug-01-17 01:50 PM
basically if he sees these people are the "bad ones" could him telling others of their plans or whatever be what leads to those outcomes


essentially cant fuck with fate
723832, Agreed
Posted by BigReg, Tue Aug-01-17 10:37 AM
>Storylines always get tricky when dealing with time travel
>since there's always some sort of silly way to wriggle out of
>dire situations. I have no idea what Bran's endgame will be
>in Martin's book but I really hope they handle it correctly in
>the show.

im a sucker for time travel stories because they are forced to deal with the implication of what happens when you start influencing/changing shit. Considering GOT has around 6,271 active storylines them tackling the metaphysical implications of time travel in any decent capacity ain't happening.

Right now we know the enemy (Night King) we know what needs to be done (people need to unite w/dragonglass, 'magic' swords and dem dragons) so Bran's omnipotent power isn't needed at this stage of the game unless its to help convince people (and still, considering he's already Dr. Manhattan detached as noted above, would he even be effective).

Ill allow a being like that existing as a fail safe to the end of the world; night king wins and the earth is literally a land of the dead. But a sizeable amount of the population is woke to the horror...not sure what game he has left to play outside of the fact in the world's lore there always has to be a three eyed raven on the job.
723834, What was the implication of the Bran/Night King moment?
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Aug-01-17 11:03 AM
Because, to me, it seemed like the implication was that Bran was the Night King's biggest concern, someone with magic powers who knows everything about the White Walkers and how to defeat them. I might be wrong tho-- but that scene definitely seemed to imply that Bran's possession of the universe's knowledge was the most dangerous weapon in the Seven Kingdoms.

Also he's totes gonna blurt out to Sansa that Jon isn't really his brother, that he's a Targaryean. lol. Classic Bran.
723835, RE: What was the implication of the Bran/Night King moment?
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Aug-01-17 11:10 AM
>Because, to me, it seemed like the implication was that Bran
>was the Night King's biggest concern, someone with magic
>powers who knows everything about the White Walkers and how to
>defeat them. I might be wrong tho-- but that scene definitely
>seemed to imply that Bran's possession of the universe's
>knowledge was the most dangerous weapon in the Seven Kingdoms.

In terms of defeating the Night King and the White Walkers, what does Bran know that Jon and Samwell don't know already? I'm not trying to be snarky with my question either; I thought all you needed was that special obsidian/dragonglass to fight the White Walkers and their ilk; how far off am I?
723836, ^^^Yup. Bran is useless plot wise on the show
Posted by BigReg, Tue Aug-01-17 11:44 AM
We've got dragonglass that Sam used
We've got Valarian swords (even though seems only the baller lords/lordlesses have it...its the sword Jon Snow used to shatter one of em that Ned gave him)
Motherfucking dragons
Samewell has the middle ages wikipedia library of knowledge at his fingertips.

And if you needed a deus ex machina plot device of characters finding out shit they shouldn't know the 'Lord of The Light' religion has been giving niggas visions of the upcoming war fo free!

While I would love to know more about the whitewalkers and their hierarchy that Bran could shed light on (how do baby whitewalkers grow/learn?)...we already got the shitty cliffnote origin story in the Bran story line two years ago, lol.
723838, RE: ^^^Yup. Bran is useless plot wise on the show
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Aug-01-17 11:57 AM
>We've got dragonglass that Sam used
>We've got Valarian swords (seems only the baller
>lords/lordlesses have it...its the sword Jon Snow used to
>shatter one of em that Ned gave him)
>Motherfucking dragons
>Samewell has the middle ages wikipedia library of knowledge at
>his fingertips.
>
>And if you needed a deus ex machina plot device of characters
>finding out shit they shouldn't know the 'Lord of The Light'
>religion has been giving niggas visions of the upcoming war fo
>free!
>
>While I would love to know more about the whitewalkers and
>their hierarchy that Bran could shed light on (how do baby
>whitewalkers grow/learn)...we already got the shitty cliffnote
>origin story in the Bran story line two years ago, lol.


Well, I wouldn't say he's completely useless since there are more to Game of Thrones universe than the White Walkers and Bran could provide a great deal of insight to Jon and Sansa, assuming he actually wants to try to influence things.
723840, If the mark the Night King gave Bran allows him to break the Wall...
Posted by Melanism, Tue Aug-01-17 01:39 PM
...as it did in the Three Eyed Raven's lair, I think Bran still has usefulness left.

Also, Bran is going to say something to Littlefinger about one of the many fucked up things he's done to make him be like "I need to kill this motherfucker"
723852, Well, Bran knows how they're made/where they come from/etc.
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Aug-01-17 11:57 PM
Don't Jon and Sam only know the dragonglass thing? Not saying that isn't important, but knowing literally *everything* about the adversary, including everything that adversary will do in the future, seems insanely important.
723859, It's been a while, and I've only seen the episode once...
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Aug-02-17 09:23 AM
but IIRC the impression I got from that scene was Bran as a device for the Night King to cross The Wall. You're probably correct too though; not only does Bran provide tNK a target, Bran should also be able to discover how to beat him.




(Speaking of devices, there's a reasonable argument that could be made where Bran is present in the series merely to provide a vehicle for exposition, hah)
723860, RE: It's been a while, and I've only seen the episode once...
Posted by Numba_33, Wed Aug-02-17 09:34 AM
>(Speaking of devices, there's a reasonable argument that could
>be made where Bran is present in the series merely to provide
>a vehicle for exposition, hah)

Which is perfectly fine with me since he can provided a great deal of insight for the remaining characters. There is nothing wrong with having more information. Still though, I hope him being around Sansa and Littlefinger will stir things up a bit.
723825, Mi Familia! *Spoilers*
Posted by Calico, Mon Jul-31-17 11:55 PM
So, how many whole or almost whole Houses have been wiped out at this point?

There's like, one Frey left
Four Starks
A few Lannisters
No Boltons
Two Mormonts
Maybe 3 Targaryens
One Arryn
Maybe a couple Tyrells if they ran
A couple illigitamate Baratheons
No Martels

Who am I forgetting?
723826, Not many Greyjoys left
Posted by calij81, Tue Aug-01-17 12:42 AM
Theon doesn't have any living brothers and Theon cant have kids.

It doesn't seem like Euron has any children.

723833, True
Posted by Calico, Tue Aug-01-17 10:50 AM
Euron probably has some illegitimate kids he doesn't even know about, but they don't count
723842, I love how House Seward didn't even exist until Stannis allowed it
Posted by Marauder21, Tue Aug-01-17 02:20 PM
And now it has outlived House Baratheon.

Nobody fell off harder from the start of the show to now than those stags.
723843, so which fan theories do we think are *definitely* happening?
Posted by dula dibiasi, Tue Aug-01-17 02:35 PM
imo

- queenslayer jaime
- cleganebowl
- jon and tyrion riding rhaegal and viserion
- the return of gendry to forge valyrian steel / dragonglass
- "a song of ice and fire" by samwell tarly

are all pretty much guaranteed.
723845, Dunno if you should throw these out there without a spoiler tag...
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-01-17 03:17 PM
sure, it's all past the purview of the books but a lot of those theories have a bunch of text to support it.

Not too late to edit...
723850, Heard one a little bit ago that said (SPOILER maybe?)
Posted by Marauder21, Tue Aug-01-17 07:42 PM
Tyrion is somehow half Targaryean. But I have zero idea how that could be possible, since we know he has the same mother as Jamie and Cersei. Is this a long-time theory from the books? I didn't read them, so if there's some context in there let me know. But I can't imagine Tywin would've ever let it slide if his wife was fucking around, he'd probably kill her right when she went into labor just to be that cold.
723851, the basic breakdown:
Posted by dula dibiasi, Tue Aug-01-17 09:11 PM
https://winteriscoming.net/2016/05/06/game-of-thrones-theorycrafting-is-tyrion-lannister-actually-a-targaryen/
723857, I'm hesitant to discuss any book theories here....
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Aug-02-17 08:44 AM
that aren't currently being explored in the show. Even if these types of theories ended up being true, there hasn't been any evidence of such in the show thus far and could end up spoiling a big moment for show watchers.
723870, trust. no it's not and everything Dula posted is evident in the show
Posted by astralblak, Wed Aug-02-17 01:18 PM
except probably two
723849, The Night King wipes out everyone, only to fall to this guy
Posted by Marauder21, Tue Aug-01-17 07:41 PM
https://thoughtcatalog.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/charlie-day.jpg
723846, When Winterfell Meister said Meister Lewen kept all his raven scrolls
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-01-17 03:48 PM
LittleFinger kind of gave a look

Either, there's something in those scrolls he doesn't want anyone to see, or he sees opportunity
723861, It's funny though
Posted by Numba_33, Wed Aug-02-17 09:57 AM
>LittleFinger kind of gave a look


Most of the acting that character has done so far this season is giving funny looks and glances while leaning against the wall; I almost wonder if the show recycles his glances since they all pretty much appears to be the same.
723865, But he wasn't against the wall this time!
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed Aug-02-17 11:26 AM
so this look was a big deal lol

>Most of the acting that character has done so far this season
>is giving funny looks and glances while leaning against the
>wall; I almost wonder if the show recycles his glances since
>they all pretty much appears to be the same.
723871, haha
Posted by astralblak, Wed Aug-02-17 01:19 PM
.
724174, i'm impressed you caught this...ended up being something after all
Posted by gumz, Tue Aug-15-17 11:55 AM
723878, Does anyone else think Dany could flip out and become the show's villain?
Posted by Af-1, Wed Aug-02-17 06:26 PM
Her speech to Jon about the faith she has in herself as the rightful ruler of Westeros and everything she's done to get there could ultimately come crashing down around her when Jon's identity is revealed and she realises that she's not the Last Dragon and he actually outranks her for the throne. (Whether he wants it or not.)
723902, Episode 4 leaked and omfg
Posted by bshelly, Fri Aug-04-17 11:54 AM
Don't ask me a link. I'm scared of the law. But it's easy to find right now and holy.

Fucking.

Shit.
723904, I tried to wait
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Fri Aug-04-17 12:25 PM
But that shit is like crack. I had to watch it. Sweet jesus i need time to recover
723914, Holy fuckity fuck
Posted by josephmurf2384, Sat Aug-05-17 03:02 AM
god damn that was glorious. if fucking sucks this is half the season already.
723915, hell yes
Posted by xangeluvr, Sat Aug-05-17 02:03 PM
>Don't ask me a link. I'm scared of the law. But it's easy to
>find right now and holy.
>
>Fucking.
>
>Shit.

so glad it ended the way it did. if it would have gone the other way i would have been PISSED.
723916, can y'all wait until sunday night to discuss? thanks.
Posted by 3xKrazy, Sat Aug-05-17 02:41 PM

>so glad it ended the way it did. if it would have gone the
>other way i would have been PISSED.
723917, No one discussed the content of the episode
Posted by josephmurf2384, Sat Aug-05-17 03:20 PM
Just reactions. No spoilers have been posted.
723919, no outright spoilers but when you're talking about being glad
Posted by 3xKrazy, Sat Aug-05-17 05:16 PM
that such and such happens it makes it a heckuva lot easier to figure out how shit is gonna go for those of us who will be watching on sunday.

ie., now I know that whoever I'm rooting for (and we all generally root for the same people) will prevail. great!
723924, The hobbits win and voldamornis there. My all apologies
Posted by josephmurf2384, Sat Aug-05-17 07:49 PM
If we ruined your anticipation.
723931, no need to get defensive and i didnt ask for your apology so chill
Posted by 3xKrazy, Sun Aug-06-17 08:54 AM
I'm sure it would be totally appreciated by everyone if book readers came through talking about how what's set to happen next was so holy fuckityfuckfuckfuck amazing and awesome and we're gonna be happy with the outcome
723927, or maybe dont read responses that say Episode 4??
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Sun Aug-06-17 02:33 AM
Just a suggestion
723930, it was merely a polite request...you can do as you wish
Posted by 3xKrazy, Sun Aug-06-17 08:51 AM
and usually we throw 'spoilers' in the subject line
723933, true
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Sun Aug-06-17 01:36 PM
723937, DROGON SPIT HOT FIYA!!!!
Posted by calij81, Sun Aug-06-17 10:02 PM
What a great episode, held my breath during that last minute.

Glad to see all the surviving Starks reunited.
723938, Let Arya ride the goddamn dragons
Posted by ShinobiShaw, Sun Aug-06-17 11:15 PM
Just let her swoop down and stab people in the neck then have the dragon eat them.
723939, I think I got lightheaded
Posted by Calico, Sun Aug-06-17 11:42 PM
...from screaming so much..... What an awesome episode

GIVE BRON HIS CASTLE!
723941, lolol your people can't fight - Dothraki dude
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-07-17 03:55 AM
723942, As I sit here a half hour before getting ready for work...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-07-17 07:34 AM
due to non-GoT related insomnia (altho that episode didn't help matters any), I had a lot of time to think while laying there....

Going into this season I was excited, but not nearly as hyped as previous seasons. Maybe it was the vague disillusionment from last season or the delayed start time from it's usual April release, but I wasn't really in a Game of Thrones mood at the season premiere (also the first time I didn't rewatch the prior season beforehand).

But hot damn, have I really enjoyed this season, even before Drogon breathed hot fire on a fucking supply train (hilarious how it's referenced as a loot train; we got us some WoW players here). Last year I bemoaned the Hollywood-ization of the show in the first season that really moved past the scope of the books. Not that things have changed so much, but I think I've found peace that the show is now a truly different entity from the books.

And it's damn good. I don't give a shit if Arya vs Brienne never sniffs the printed page, I was geeking like crazy during that whole scene. Or Bran wryly using Littlefinger's own words. Or the ridiculousness that was Bronn's heroics. I'm ok that the layered intrigue that characterized the first half of the series is not really the driver anymore; it's not D&D's fault that Martin can't get the books out. And the show that we're getting from them is so gorgeous in so many ways.

If Martin keeps up at his current rate, we won't get book 7 until 2026 (I'd rather not think of the alternatives). But holy shit am I happy that this story, this incredible global phenomenon, A Song of Ice and Fire, Martin's magnum opus... still gets to be told.
723944, Agreed.
Posted by BigReg, Mon Aug-07-17 08:31 AM
>But hot damn, have I really enjoyed this season, even before
>Drogon breathed hot fire on a fucking supply train (hilarious
>how it's referenced as a loot train; we got us some WoW
>players here). Last year I bemoaned the Hollywood-ization of
>the show in the first season that really moved past the scope
>of the books. Not that things have changed so much, but I
>think I've found peace that the show is now a truly different
>entity from the books.

The interpersonal + political nuance is taking a back seat but its taking a back seat to still great ass television. On one hand I can take a look at Bronn pulling Tom Cruise mission impossible moves to take down the dragon as bullshit (although in D&B defense the show has more then heavily hinted he's one of the best warriors in the realm). But I can't say I wasn't on the edge of my seat!

And ultimately whatever plot armor any characters have had is just temporary since the show is closing...effectively everyone is going to 'die' to us as viewers when the show ends in a year.

So rather then Jamie getting roasted by Dany this battle him living on to eventually have the forshadowed sibling-off with his sister I have to admit would be more satisfying tv.

And what's great is because of the genius of Martin and D&B's more often then not successful efforts to translate his 'Anyone can get got' ethos in those early years we still fear for characters that can't 'die'(ie, i was 50/50 on the dragon crashing and fucking Dany's whole shit up)
723945, Or Jaime going out in a blaze of glory.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-07-17 09:00 AM

>'Anyone can get got' ethos in those early years we still fear
>for characters that can't 'die'(ie, i was 50/50 on the dragon
>crashing and fucking Dany's whole shit up)
>

I didn't think it would happen.... but cot damn did I think it could happen. That's damn fine storytelling either way.


(Sidenote: I recommend to everyone to watch that behind the scenes for the Loot Train battle. Really great extra that shows just how much work went into that thing.)
723943, I wonder how powerful those ratings were
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Aug-07-17 08:17 AM
in light of the leak.

This isn't the biggest detail in that episode of course, but how much truth did Littlefinger impart to Bran in terms of that knife? I vaguely remember Catelyn Stark stopping an assassination attempt in the first season by grabbing a knife with her hands, but I don't remember who was behind it. I'm assuming Littlefinger wasn't behind it since he was infatuated with her.
723946, It's never been entirely clear, in print or in show...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-07-17 09:03 AM
but the prevailing thought is Joffrey was somehow behind the attempted assassination.

Of course Littlefinger fanned the flames though...
723947, Joffrey? he was just a kid
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-07-17 09:06 AM
wasn't it assumed that jamie/cersei were behind it since they needed to keep their incestuous affairs a secret?
723952, RE: It's never been entirely clear, in print or in show...
Posted by j0510, Mon Aug-07-17 10:00 AM
>but the prevailing thought is Joffrey was somehow behind the
>attempted assassination.
>
>Of course Littlefinger fanned the flames though...


Wasn't it alluded to in the books that it was Joffrey. Joffrey felt sorry for Bran and felt that he shouldn't have to grow up and live the life of a disabled person. I'm probably wrong but I vaguely remember that.
723956, You're right, that was in the books.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-07-17 10:33 AM
I misremembered book from show... in the show the implication is Cersei and/or Jaime but in the books Joffrey is the alleged perpetrator.
723957, Im of the belief that Little Finger is responsible in the show
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Aug-07-17 10:53 AM
He seems to want this war more than anything and, unlike Varys, has never had an altruist motive for his machinations.

I've long thought he saw an opportunity to instigate the Stark/Lannister war and did just that when he fingered Tyrion (Giggity!) for the job.

I won't speak on probability but I don't think it's a tinfoil stretch by any means.





723948, Sorry, but those cave paintings cracked me up
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-07-17 09:15 AM
We got stick figures of the Children and the First Men, then these super detailed paintings of the White Walkers. They REALLY wanted us to know what the Night King looked like, I guess.

So who do we think pushed Jamie out of the way? Was the Bronn or Dickon? Or just a rando?
723949, I bet it was young Tarly.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Aug-07-17 09:44 AM
And I bet young Tarly died doing it.

Which would give Old Tarly (assuming he's alive) some things to think about, both re: Sam and re: his loyalty to the Lannisters.
723950, Good point
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-07-17 09:52 AM
Makes more sense than Bronn, and he was wearing super-heavy armor, so he probably won't make it out of the water.
723954, i like all the Tarlys except the old man
Posted by Calico, Mon Aug-07-17 10:28 AM
...just off how he treated Sam and his family....

I wonder why he never tried to get his sword back?
723960, cause hes all fucking talk
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-07-17 11:39 AM
723977, He's one of the greatest warriors in Westeros
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Aug-07-17 05:43 PM
And the only one to defeat King Robert in battle. He's def not all talk. Lol. He prolly has no idea where the fuck Sam is and is a little preoccupied.
723981, i was being kinda silly
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-07-17 06:32 PM
hes definitely a bad ass


but talks soooooo much shit i need someone to smack him good
723951, RE: Sorry, but those cave paintings cracked me up
Posted by j0510, Mon Aug-07-17 09:54 AM
>So who do we think pushed Jamie out of the way? Was the Bronn
>or Dickon? Or just a rando?


It was Bronn. Dickon was wearing armor while Bronn was not.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/mnkdypximuibmyfgzp1g.png

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/re4g7wnyuuqfdjelvdzz.png
723953, Oh, good catch
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-07-17 10:05 AM
723964, We were joking that Jon drew that shit, then grabbed Dany like hey look!
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-07-17 12:36 PM
724038, https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGqYMGNXkAAGjE6.jpg
Posted by 40thStreetBlack, Wed Aug-09-17 01:27 AM
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DGqYMGNXkAAGjE6.jpg
723965, I'm starting to quetion where Tyrion's loyalty is
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-07-17 12:43 PM
it made sense how conflicted he was watching the battle, but I'm starting to wonder if its something a little more. Both of his attack plans backfired horribly, and the one he advised against worked. Short of saying he's the rat, he might still be too much of a Lannister to be reliable in this war.
723968, Can you imagine if he was pulling something over?
Posted by phenompyrus, Mon Aug-07-17 02:44 PM
Tyrion still loyal to the Lannisters? Would NOT expect that.
723969, to walk this back a bit, i don't think he's secretly with the Lannisters
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-07-17 03:00 PM
that would be too WWE

but he was clearly conflicted watching Dany's dragons burn the same army he once led, and watching Jamie who he still has love for take that L. And just the brutality of the dragons in general.

I think he has a hard time seeing the Lannister's as purely an enemy. It's complicated to the point that i think its affecting the quality of his advice to Dany
723970, RE: to walk this back a bit, i don't think he's secretly with the Lannisters
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Aug-07-17 03:06 PM
>that would be too WWE
>
>but he was clearly conflicted watching Dany's dragons burn the
>same army he once led, and watching Jamie who he still has
>love for take that L. And just the brutality of the dragons in
>general.
>
>I think he has a hard time seeing the Lannister's as purely an
>enemy. It's complicated to the point that i think its
>affecting the quality of his advice to Dany

Assuming Danerys lets Sir Friendzone back into the fold, all of the men she has as counselors will have questionable allegiances to her. The one man that's around her that is a straight shooter is Jon, who hasn't bent the knee to her, unlike the other men who have.
723971, now Jorah has to deal with her making eyes at Jon
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-07-17 03:21 PM
who is probably her nephew lol

723972, Jon really should bend the knee, though
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-07-17 04:09 PM
Particularly after all of the "we all need to make sacrifices" talk he gave everyone else.

Sansa can't retaliate against the houses that sided with the Boltons because "we need everyone we can to band together and fight The Real Enemy." OK, makes sense.

The other members of the Night's Watch need to suck it up and let the wildlings chill because "The Real Enemy approaches, we can't afford petty squabbles." OK, as fucked up as it was for Ollie to have to be cool with the guy who slaughtered his whole village now basically being his superior, Jon wasn't wrong.

But he can't sacrifice an inch of his pride for someone who could give him everything he needs to fight the Walkers? Because the other Northern houses will just never accept it? Bullshit. He could easily sell them on Dany if he wanted to. And you know he'll ultimately do it anyway once he finds out who his real dad is.
723975, Remember Mance Rayder...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-07-17 04:47 PM
he burned on a pyre because he didn't bend the knee. It wasn't for self-pride, it was for the respect of his people: the Wildlings that never before followed a single leader in their history are the same Wildlings that followed Mance Rayder for ten years. Jon so revered Mance and his beliefs that he granted him mercy from the fire despite risking insubordination from Alliser Thorne.

It seems a minor gesture, but if Jon swore fealty to a leader his people didn't believe in, it would be as much a betrayal as Mance bending his knee to Stannis. The Free Folk prided themselves on living the life they wanted to lead, even if it meant living in the miserable cold north of The Wall. The Northerners have always adopted an aloof attitude towards the Southron states and this time is no exception. If Jon had bent the knee, he would have immediately lost all credibility with his people; the same credibility that allows the Free Folk to place their trust in him when Mance was gone.

The irony is this is the same episode we see Missandei profess that she follows Daenerys because she *chooses* to follow Daenerys; along those lines, wouldn't it seem like Daenerys is the one letting pride cloud her judgement?



Edit: The question isn't whether or not the Northern houses would follow Daenerys; Jon is seeing more and more why she deserves the respect and loyalty her followers show her. The North would follow her if they understood who she is... but they need to make this choice of their own accord. The Free Folk respect Jon because they saw the great risks he brought upon himself both physically and politically in order to do the right thing for his people. Jon's integrity has always been beyond reproach... and that's why he won't bend the knee.
723983, I see what you're saying
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-07-17 06:56 PM
And you're right in that the choice to follow Dany or not should belong to the Northern houses.

But we don't have time to take a poll of everyone in the North to gauge their feelings on Dany. If defeating the Walkers is paramount (and it is,) it shouldn't matter what they think right now. Just like it shouldn't matter who sits on the throne or who was loyal to Jon against Ramsey or who killed Ollie's entire village.

And I really don't think the other houses would turn on Jon in an instant for bending the knee. They trusted him this far, I think they'd at least want to hear him out as to why.
724013, The parallel continues with Mance Rayder...
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-08-17 09:26 AM
Mance and the Free Folk knew better than anyone else how dire the White Walker threat is... so much so that they were willing to wage war with The Night's Watch in order to get further south.

And despite all that, Mance still didn't bend the knee. I think you're underestimating just how independently-inclined the Northerners are. The only reason the Starks joined the War of the Five Kings was because Robert personally made the long, miserable trek to ask Ned to be his Hand. It's why the Arryns of the Vale stayed completely out of that same war. It's why it was monumental when the North rallied behind Robb and why they support Jon, why the Free Folk are called the "Free Folk". Freedom isn't a thing that's taken lightly by these people.

Like Promo said, the words "Isn't their survival more important than your pride?" was said exactly by Jon to Mance. And he saw how far Mance took those beliefs. Jon is THEIR king, not Dany.
723978, I took it as Dany needing to let it go.
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Aug-07-17 05:50 PM
She keeps insisting he bend the knee. Jon is more concerned with saving his people while Dany seems obsessed with being the only one that can be called King or Queen.
723982, If Jon's top concern is saving his people
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-07-17 06:47 PM
and bending the knee is the best chance he has to save them, then shouldn't he do it?

I mean, if it's all the same to him, since The Real Enemy is marching south and doesn't care who's on the Iron Throne, it shouldn't be an issue. But it clearly is.

724005, Dany needs it just for political reasons tho; they on the same team
Posted by BigReg, Tue Aug-08-17 07:56 AM
Jon's worried about the White Walkers but its not as if they weren't an issue he wouldn't HAPPILY be the first motherfucker to ride down to King's Landing off GP. He may not pledge himself to her but the fact they are allies is clear as day.
724016, Bending the knee isn't going to immediately pivot Dany, though.
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-08-17 09:34 AM
Even if he knelt, Jon knows she's still going to focus on King's Landing.

And once the White Walker threat becomes too urgent to ignore (perhaps next episode/!!?!), he's not going to need to bend the knee for her support.
723980, I don't think it's his pride. his standing as king is shakey at best
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-07-17 06:30 PM
he's brought in Wildlings, caught heat for going too easy on houses that betrayed him, he's selling them on something most of them haven't seen, his own sister is calling him out in front of everyone. Winter is coming and they're short on food. Defeating Ramsey bought him some capital, but he's not exactly on solid ground.

I don't think he personally gives a shit about bending the knee. he just knows how it will go over

If anything, Dany's the one who needs to let that shit go
723986, its a good paradox IMO just by reading the discussion
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-07-17 08:48 PM
essentially both sides are correct and wrong at the same time
723988, agreed
Posted by astralblak, Mon Aug-07-17 09:59 PM
and makes sense in the world of the show, why it's such a issue/struggle
724006, Yup. JON AIN'T TRYING TO GET MURKED AGAIN BY HIS PEEPS
Posted by BigReg, Tue Aug-08-17 07:56 AM
lol
724048, no... he shouldn't
Posted by Calico, Wed Aug-09-17 10:34 AM
just like Dany, he banded these groups of people together that never would have aligned otherwise, because they believe in HIM..... These people unlike Dany's crew or Cersi's. aren't really interested in fighting anyone, but there are threats to their lands coming and they're prepared to fight for that... They have ZERO interest in Kings Landing or Mereen, or whatever Dany's up to....

Jon's main goal is to defeat the White Walkers and the Night King, and Dany isn't really interested in that, she's just indulging him because she wants him to bend that knee... However, if he did, the Night King would be a secondary problem at best....It doesn't help him.... End of the day, they'll all band together once the White Walkers breach the Wall, and they WILL
723979, we actually don't know if jon hasn't bent the knee.
Posted by PROMO, Mon Aug-07-17 06:15 PM
i mean, unless it's some shit that HAS to be done in front of the kingdom while the ruler is on the throne, he could have done it in the cave out of sight when she asked.

i think he did, and the reason i think he did is because the same speech that Daenerys gave him in that cave last night is the exact, word for word speech that he gave Mance.
723984, That's possible, but I think they'd show it on camera
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-07-17 06:57 PM
For as much as these two characters talked about it the past two episodes, this doesn't seem like something you do off camera.
723992, Damn, it sure is. I looked it up on YouTube
Posted by icecold21, Mon Aug-07-17 10:55 PM
"Isn't their survival more important than your pride?"

Couldn't have been a coincidence.

>i think he did, and the reason i think he did is because the
>same speech that Daenerys gave him in that cave last night is
>the exact, word for word speech that he gave Mance.
724014, For as much as the story emphasizes freedom...
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-08-17 09:27 AM
there is absolutely no way "bending the knee" happens off-camera.
724175, unless they bring it back in a flashback to reveal later
Posted by gumz, Tue Aug-15-17 11:59 AM
they def cut away from it abruptly...that may not have been a coincidence
724177, You're reaching here.
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-15-17 12:29 PM
Not only would it be completely out of character for Jon, it doesn't make sense narratively considering what we've seen in the scenes since.

Like, it's incredibly obvious Jon did NOT bend the knee.... what point would there be in a "gotcha" moment like having it happen off-camera?
723985, in Tyrion's defense,
Posted by Scrapluv, Mon Aug-07-17 08:26 PM
he advised against attacking King's Landing directly. It is possible that they planned to attack the gold and supplies once they learned High Garden was taken.
724061, Thats how I took it as well
Posted by Heinz, Wed Aug-09-17 04:02 PM
that he wasnt about going after them if there was collateral damage he was only really looking to take out the blockade. He wasnt about going to the Red Keep with her 3 dragons. Jon just explained it better and presented it as the right option
724045, prediction:
Posted by dula dibiasi, Wed Aug-09-17 10:00 AM
jaime survives the loot train attack, is taken prisoner by dany, and ultimately freed by tyrion.

3 betrayals: one for blood (mirri maaz durr), one for gold (jorah mormont), one for love (tyrion)
724062, yeah i could see this happening
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed Aug-09-17 04:07 PM
>jaime survives the loot train attack, is taken prisoner by
>dany, and ultimately freed by tyrion.
724063, Have they referred to the three betrayals prophecy on the show?
Posted by mrhood75, Wed Aug-09-17 04:35 PM
Not saying Tyrion won't free Jamie, but I can't remember if they've ever specifically called it out.

Regardless, Jamie has to be the one who finally kills Cersei. So if Tyrion is the one who lets him go, that act will eventually lead to the "end" of the war.
724065, i don't think they have specifically.
Posted by dula dibiasi, Wed Aug-09-17 05:26 PM
but i'd bet anything that it's in GRRM's outline that he provided to D&D.
724109, RE: i don't think they have specifically.
Posted by mrhood75, Fri Aug-11-17 01:28 PM
>but i'd bet anything that it's in GRRM's outline that he
>provided to D&D.

I dunno, I'd say Book Jamie and TV Show Jamie are about the farthest apart in terms of character trajectories for each respective medium. Or at least there are many, many steps that Book Jamie would have to go through to get to where Jamie is on the TV Show. So I wouldn't be surprised if GRRM's outline doesn't have Jamie allied with Cersei at all throughout the rest of the books. But that's a different discussion.
723989, Aye questions.
Posted by astralblak, Mon Aug-07-17 10:05 PM
Does this mean all Cersei got left is Euron's fleet?

Where is The Hound?

Where is Lady Stone Heart?

If that cave tells us anything and the White Walkers been around since time immemorial, how are they only present on one side of the wall? and won't heat as in the Sun make it hard on them as well?

Lastly, are y'all still making excuses for "Bran"? Lil' dude on the vision pipe heavy. Sansa and Arya's faces to each other were classic. "what up with this goofy lil muhfucka"

also I don't think we get another major battle until next season.
723991, Bran isn't "on the vision pipe". Hell, he's not even Bran anymore.
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Aug-07-17 10:54 PM
IMO it's downright obtuse to say people are making excuses for a child who got thrown out of a castle, became crippled, and just returned from a years-long journey that consisted of being hunted by ice zombies and attaining not just the ability to see the past, present and future all at once as well as travel in time to some degree, ultimately being tasked with the role and burden of ensuring those ice zombies don't destroy the world.

Aside from the irrevocable change of those who have been turned into white walkers, nobody else has undergone such a complete transformation.

There's nobody else in the entire show who deserves more leeway for the way they act than Bran and I don't really think that's debatable.

Bran at this point is essentially the Doctor Manhattan of ASOIAF. Sure, he's kind of a frigid asshole, but going from a kid to a brooding 14 year old after enduring several life-altering traumas alone would be enough make his personality change perfectly understandable and that's before you get into the whole oh-yeah-he's-also-omniscient-now thing.

It's not like he's arrogant or anything. It's just that his mind is on other things, such as absolutely everything.
724002, Cersei and Iron Bank guy were talking about hiring The Golden Company
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-08-17 03:48 AM
In Esos. Who from the sounds of it are some kind of Mercenaries/Sellswords Who the iron bank frequently hires for Debt collection.

>Does this mean all Cersei got left is Euron's fleet?
724011, RE: Cersei and Iron Bank guy were talking about hiring The Golden Company
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Aug-08-17 09:21 AM
>In Esos. Who from the sounds of it are some kind of
>Mercenaries/Sellswords Who the iron bank frequently hires for
>Debt collection.

The guy that was Daenerys' mimbo warrior some seasons ago was from that crew, right?
724020, Daario is from the Second Sons
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-08-17 11:45 AM
bit I'm guessing The Gold Co is just a similar crew of Daario/Bronn types

>The guy that was Daenerys' mimbo warrior some seasons ago was
>from that crew, right?
724046, yup. sellsword company.
Posted by dula dibiasi, Wed Aug-09-17 10:07 AM
>bit I'm guessing The Gold Co is just a similar crew of
>Daario/Bronn types
>
>>The guy that was Daenerys' mimbo warrior some seasons ago
>was
>>from that crew, right?
>
724036, RE: did the loot make it out b4 Drogon torched er'body/thing?
Posted by astralblak, Tue Aug-08-17 10:50 PM
cause if not, they got no money right
724039, It's at Kings Landing
Posted by Pamalama, Wed Aug-09-17 05:48 AM
The dude who recommended flogging confirmed to Jaime the gold was safely through the gates at King's Landing right before the Dickon conversation.
724008, RE: Aye questions.
Posted by Marauder21, Tue Aug-08-17 08:52 AM
>Where is The Hound?

After he saw the visions in the flames of the Walkers, he seemed to be heading north. Maybe to Castle Black, maybe to Eastwatch By The Sea, but my guess is the next time we'll see him will be by the Wall.

>Where is Lady Stone Heart?

Wherever the Freys left her body, I'd guess.

>If that cave tells us anything and the White Walkers been
>around since time immemorial, how are they only present on one
>side of the wall? and won't heat as in the Sun make it hard on
>them as well?

The Wall was built specifically to keep them out, so it was built south of where their territory was (likely during a season where they knew the Walkers wouldn't be able to get too far south.) And it's got magic inside.

I'm guessing that's why they need to wait for winter, because it's starting to even get cold in the South now. I imagine once their army is big enough and Westeros is cold enough (and the water's frozen,) they'll march.
724017, the Hound and Berric were heading to Eastwatch.
Posted by PROMO, Tue Aug-08-17 10:59 AM
So, we should see them this Sunday...possibly fighting White Walkers since that's where the Army of The Dead is hitting next.
724035, damn this would be dope
Posted by astralblak, Tue Aug-08-17 10:49 PM
.
724003, What did Bran say to Baylish before they were interrupted?
Posted by Af-1, Tue Aug-08-17 03:52 AM
I couldn't make it out.
724004, "choas is a ladder".
Posted by araQual, Tue Aug-08-17 07:30 AM
he was quoting something Littlefinger said to Varys in season 3: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/chaos-is-a-ladder-bran-littlefinger-game-of-thrones-season-7-episode-4-baelish-line-dialogue-a7879801.html.

basically letting him know that he knows what kinda person he is and what he's done. which is probably why he handed that particular blade to Arya. barring any huge random upset deaths, i think we're meant to read that as Baelish being added to Arya's kill list and then being killed.

V.
724010, Why was Sansa giving Brienne and Arya the stankface?
Posted by Pamalama, Tue Aug-08-17 09:07 AM
Couldn't figure why she cared one way or the other about Arya training.
724015, I took it as validation....
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-08-17 09:30 AM
behind Arya's shitlist and just how much she'd been through. It's also possible that she was bothered by just how much Arya seemed to be *enjoying* it.
724018, also a throwback to the dyanmics of their relationship
Posted by araQual, Tue Aug-08-17 11:16 AM
to Sansa being a self-centered brat and always chastising Arya for not being much of a lady. might also relate to Sansa feeling like she's achieved something real by reclaiming Winterfell and being its temporary lord/steward, and then having Arya waltz right in and show off her fighting skills. like "oh ur lord of Winterfell? that's nice" *goes toe to toe with one of the realms toughest warriors*.

i read it as mostly having to do with sisterly shit. possibly some petty jealousy from Sansa. there was season 1 throwbacks aplenty so that could've just been another one.

V.
724024, I was half expecting Sansa to apologize to Arya
Posted by Pamalama, Tue Aug-08-17 01:59 PM
For Joffrey and all the crap that came with it. And based on that history alone, Sansa should know she should let Arya rock any way she wants. Was hoping she would be a little proud. Those two could protect her better than any man at that castle
724025, she was unsettled at watching Arya fight
Posted by JiggysMyDayJob, Tue Aug-08-17 02:13 PM
Basically, she took all of the early talks like she was just a little girl spinning dreams. Then Bran said something about the list that made her perk up like "Oh shit there might be something to this" and then when she was practicing with Breanne and showing that's she'll really a killer shook her up for real.
724027, Yup, exactly.
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-08-17 02:48 PM
She realized right then and there that there was weight behind Arya's list.
724028, So it's more to do with her concern for Cersei
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Aug-08-17 03:26 PM
than any emotions or illwill she has for Arya, right? I have to think Littlefinger will try to exploit that somehow. I can't wrap my head around Sansa having any positive emotions towards Cersei, but I suppose in some twisted way, she was a motherly figure to her moreso than her own birth mother.
724032, I don't *think* it has to do with concern for Cersei...
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-08-17 04:20 PM
although certainly that discussion with Jon warrants some consideration.... nor is it concern for anyone who could be on this "list".

And I also don't think her expression was borne through any ill feelings towards Arya (jealousy, anger, disappointment, etc.).

I personally just think it's the notion that Arya's seen some serious shit to bring her to that point, same as Sansa herself. If you were to ask one sister about the other, I'm sure each would say "I would never ever want my sister to experience what I did to get here". Sansa's face showed that she finally understood her baby sister went through her own painful trials and tribulations.



(Sidenote: Of course it's by design, but I really like that both sisters faced trials that each was especially suited for. Arya would never have tolerated the courtesies of high court, the mental and physical abuses of her husband(s) or the responsibilities of leadership. On that same note, Sansa would never have survived travelling alone, the grueling training regimen or having to physically defend herself. It's an interesting dichotomy and I'm so happy they're back together... here's to hoping it stays that way)
724034, Yeah, I didn't take it to be about Cersei either
Posted by Marauder21, Tue Aug-08-17 06:50 PM
I think she's just unnerved at seeing someone she remembers as a happy go lucky kid who loved running around and play-fighting as a hardened killer. It's one thing when she had her "dancing" lessons back in S1, now she's going toe to toe with one of the best fighters in Westeros and getting the better of her (yeah they were sparring, but Brienne wasn't going easy on her one bit.) Combined with her little sister having a kill list, it's a lot to take in.

It's like seeing your little cousin who loved playing with army men and a few years later you're at Thanksgiving and he's going all Full Metal Jacket taking apart and assembling a military issue rifle. Maybe it's not logically surprising, but it's jarring to see firsthand.
724059, I don't think there's any concern for Cersei there at all
Posted by mrhood75, Wed Aug-09-17 02:26 PM
As said above, it's more of her realizing how much shit that Arya has gone through to bring her to this point. How this war has either killed or irrevocably changed everyone in her family (or in Jon's case, both killed and changed him).
724031, But isn't that a good thing?
Posted by Pamalama, Tue Aug-08-17 03:43 PM
She has list, she has the ability to reduce that list...long live the Starks!
724057, because brienne is mom now and mom got a new fave
Posted by Basaglia, Wed Aug-09-17 01:30 PM
724049, Is the Hound's sword made of Valyrian steel?
Posted by gumz, Wed Aug-09-17 10:56 AM
I don't think the show every specifically mentioned it but it never bothered to for Ned either until the Lannisters took it.
724051, i didn't think it was
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed Aug-09-17 12:20 PM
only ones i can think of are Widow's Wail that was Joffrey's and Jamie has, Oathkeeper with Brienne, Jon Snow's that he got from Mormont, the dagger from this ep, and the sword Sam stole from his dad.

i believe Widow's Wail and Oathkeeper was the Stark sword Tywin split into after Rob's death. Someone correct me if i'm off
724054, Wasn't it Ned's sword he took and turned into two swords
Posted by JiggysMyDayJob, Wed Aug-09-17 12:41 PM
I might be wrong
724058, Yep, Tywin had Ice reforged into two swords
Posted by mrhood75, Wed Aug-09-17 02:23 PM
Pre-credits scene at the beginning of Season 4.
724102, alright this lines up with my thinking as well
Posted by gumz, Fri Aug-11-17 10:22 AM
thanks
724092, Side question: Who's the best swordsman in Westeros?
Posted by icecold21, Thu Aug-10-17 09:06 PM
Bronn?
Jon?
Brienne?
Hound?
Jorah?
Grey Worm?

Certainly not Jaime anymore, and the Mountain's strength is not his swordsmanship.

I'm leaning towards Jon or Bronn...
724094, LeBronn ain't losing to any of those cats 1 on 1
Posted by Rjcc, Fri Aug-11-17 12:01 AM

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
724095, Bronn and Jon would be a crazy good fight
Posted by Mynoriti, Fri Aug-11-17 12:09 AM
And does Aria belong on the list now?
724098, If Arya makes the list I'd assume Jaqen would be above her?
Posted by icecold21, Fri Aug-11-17 08:59 AM
724143, Not necessarily. Jaqen didn't train with Syrio Forel
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-14-17 12:33 PM
as far as we know
724188, Fuck No
Posted by WarriorPoet415, Tue Aug-15-17 03:19 PM
>And does Aria belong on the list now?

She didn't even complete her training and she's nowhere near seasoned enough. A nice showing during a friendly sparring match doesn't put you on the list.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"
724100, It's an interesting question....
Posted by wallysmith, Fri Aug-11-17 09:19 AM
I'm not entirely certain myself, but IIRC Barristan Selmy was *supposably* the best living swordsman in the realm at the time(tested through tourneys and in battle).

If I had to guess...

Bronn is S-Tier when it comes to 'fighting', but not necessarily as a 'swordsman'. His strength is his resourcefulness and willingness to get dirty (a la The Hound or Karl from Gin Alley).

Grey Worm should also be S-Tier, but with more organized and structured fighting techniques.

1 on 1 though? Tournament-style, turn off all items and settings, Smash Bros Omega arena? Grey Worm. Any sort of chaotic battle? Bronn.
724103, Bronn is definately skilled
Posted by Numba_33, Fri Aug-11-17 11:43 AM
but doesn't him getting de-horsed and losing his gold as result of a nameless Dorthraki knock him down a peg or two?
724104, We saw Brienne beat the hound so he's off the list
Posted by Y2Flound, Fri Aug-11-17 11:44 AM
Only way to really narrow it down is when we see these people fight each other and hopefully we see more of each soon.
724142, fuck that! he was fighting an infection
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-14-17 12:08 PM
Arya was already complaining he was slowing them down because he wouldn't treat his wound with fire. Plus they weren't eating
724108, Probably Brienne
Posted by mrhood75, Fri Aug-11-17 01:24 PM
724141, So John Snow is the true heir to the throne?
Posted by Y2Flound, Mon Aug-14-17 11:48 AM
If what Gilly was hinting at last night was that Rhaegar got divorced from the Martel girl and married Ned Stark's sister than that would make John Snow not a bastard and the legitimate first son of the Mad King's son right?
724144, I'm not sure
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-14-17 12:36 PM
Because he certainly would be if the old Targaryean order was still in power. But that hasn't been the case in a long time. After all, the person on the Iron Throne now has zero ties to them (and was only barely connected to the Baratheon line, too.)

But it certainly calls into question Dany as the "rightful" ruler of Westeros. Though as all of her followers don't hesitate to tell us, she's their queen because they chose her, not because they care about who her family was. Which could be the case in Westeros as well, but it's probably going to require her not burning everyone who doesn't bend the knee alive and giving the people a reason to follow her (like she did in Essos.)
724146, I don't see how.
Posted by icecold21, Mon Aug-14-17 01:26 PM
Dany is daughter of the king, Jon is his nephew.

Dany would have first right and Jon next in line.
724149, jon is the first son of the first son of the king
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-14-17 01:49 PM
so that would be his claim

Dany being the daughter of the king would not be able to trump that

but all that goes out the window since barratheaon "took" the throne via war


/shrug
724152, Yup the fact he is a male would trump Danny.
Posted by KnowOne, Mon Aug-14-17 02:22 PM
nm
724162, Right, it's not like the old succession order is in place anymore
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-14-17 09:37 PM
But it could cause Dany to see him as a threat. Not that Jon would want the Iron Throne himself, but it could be used to delegitimize her by any enemies. My guess is someone's going to try and exploit that fact to bring Dany down.
724158, Yes, he's the legitimate grandson to the former king
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Aug-14-17 05:11 PM

If Jon wasn't legitimate, Dany would be the queen; she'd be like Stannis to Robert Barratheon. But since Rhaegar's marriage to Elia Martel was annulled, and a maester married him and Ned's sister, he's the heir.
724145, I really hope Arya's not dumb enough to fall for Littlefinger's trick
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-14-17 12:41 PM
But the story's going to require her to be that dumb, so it's going to happen.

I got Jorah and at least one of the Brotherhood not making it back from beyond The Wall. Jon and the Hound survive, Gendry probably does, too (at least I hope so) and I think Tormund is 50/50.

Do you think fermented crab really acts as a Westerosi Viagra? I assume not, but I kind of want to know for sure without eating old crab myself.
724156, But does Littlefinger know she can magically switch faces tho?
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Aug-14-17 04:11 PM
I feel like we're gonna get the triple-cross, where Littlefinger (and the audience) believes he's successfully tricked Arya-- and then BAM, some other dude kills Littlefingers, rips his face off, and it's Arya.
724159, Bran is going to reveal to his sisters that Littlefinger betrayed Ned...
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Aug-14-17 05:13 PM
...using the knife that Arya now has. And Arya will then kill Littlefinger with that knife.
724160, That would be dope
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-14-17 06:09 PM
Just not looking forward to all the ways Arya will have to ignore the very obvious explanation for why Sansa wrote it.
724161, It's certainly going to be annoying for an episode
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Aug-14-17 06:16 PM
But it will be set right in the finale. I guess they wanted to give everything something to do in the second to last episode.
724168, RE: But does Littlefinger know she can magically switch faces tho?
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Aug-15-17 09:42 AM
>I feel like we're gonna get the triple-cross, where
>Littlefinger (and the audience) believes he's successfully
>tricked Arya-- and then BAM, some other dude kills
>Littlefingers, rips his face off, and it's Arya.


Arya can only mask herself with the face of someone that's dead, correct? For her to mask herself in this instance would mean she'd have to kill someone in Winterfell just to trick Littlefinger. Seems like a pretty drastic measure to me, but I suppose we shall see if she's willing to do that, assuming what I said is accurate about my masking theory.
724147, Anyone else feel like this white walker plot is ridiculous?
Posted by icecold21, Mon Aug-14-17 01:29 PM
The plan is to send a couple guys beyond the wall to snag one from an army, drag its ass all the way across Westeros and show Cersei, who's still going to stab y'all in the back?

WTF?

Shit is absurd, I'm sorry. I can't believe that's the plan they come up with.
724148, it's turrble, but we'll get a dope scene, so...
Posted by astralblak, Mon Aug-14-17 01:44 PM
ok

kanye shrug
724150, ya it feels like 100% a way for them to
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-14-17 01:50 PM
get a known character "turned"

seems like the only reason

or they need a reason to have a dragon show up beyond the wall BEFORE the big battle
724151, it's fitting with the previous ill-thought out plans
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-14-17 01:54 PM
except 100x worse

I'm also having problems with how fast everyone is moving about the realm.

also Cersei willingly let tyrion stroll through kings landing and meet with jaime? cmon...
724153, series needs its heist episode
Posted by Nodima, Mon Aug-14-17 02:37 PM
I'll allow it from a conventions perspective

especially for a show that bucked convention for so long

but I get why it annoys people

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
724154, No written material, this is the crazy shit we get
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-14-17 02:59 PM
Point A to Point B, it is what it is
724164, 7 eps bruh
Posted by Heinz, Tue Aug-15-17 01:52 AM
Do u want 4 hour episodes of more drawn out travelling tales aka Lord of the Rings lol foh
----------

IG @h_n_z
724165, LOL, that's not my argument at all
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-15-17 08:40 AM
But sure, keep making up strawmen there
724155, I figure its more to prove to everyone that its real
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Aug-14-17 03:18 PM
Everyone is agreeing to help Jon but no one has actually seen them. It could spell doom for Cersei if she tries to backstab them after literally everyone finally knows white walkers are real.
724157, Time is short. The heroes are panicking.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Aug-14-17 04:12 PM
We often see desperate people make shitty decisions in life. Seems to fit well enough.
724163, the idea of him "sneaking" into Kings Landing was ridiculous
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-15-17 01:39 AM
He's a fucking dwarf
724166, Yeah that was hilarious...most conspicuous character of them all
Posted by gumz, Tue Aug-15-17 09:06 AM
Sneaks back into a place where he is wanted dead or alive lol
724167, welll...yeah, LOL but this episode had the least plausibility of them all
Posted by Calico, Tue Aug-15-17 09:36 AM
Tyrion sneaking into Kings Landing

...the thought that after YEARS of not smuggling, the Onion Knight would really still have a way to sneak into town that worked

...going to get Gendry PERIOD

...people in Winterfell acting like they're suffering because their King is away... Some being quick to switch allegiances

Bron and Jamie diving into shallow water to avoid death and swimming away form ALL the action without someone catching them

All of a sudden Cersi is the smartest person in the room??

The plan to go beyond the wall

Littlefinger and Arya playing "Spy vs Spy".... looked like a bit from Tom and Jerry

lots of things happen in this episode that inspired the side eye

Sr Tarly NOT bending the knee once he realized his son was gonna die too if he didn't....

724184, they did that shit to Rob too though
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-15-17 01:52 PM
and he didn't even leave. all that "The King in the North!" shit seems to only last a day or two. The north are fucking whiners

>Littlefinger and Arya playing "Spy vs Spy".... looked like a
>bit from Tom and Jerry

I gotta believe Arya's playing him, right? There's no way she's this obvious out of sloppiness.

>Sr Tarly NOT bending the knee once he realized his son was
>gonna die too if he didn't....

Nah, this one I disagree on. That old racist fuck was ever bending the knee in front of the dothraki. Best he could do was tell his kid to do it.

but yeah.. it's been sloppy. my biggest gripe right now is how quickly everyone gets around. treks that used to half a season happen in 10 minutes.
724187, RE: they did that shit to Rob too though
Posted by Calico, Tue Aug-15-17 02:52 PM
>and he didn't even leave. all that "The King in the North!"
>shit seems to only last a day or two. The north are fucking
>whiners
>

yeah, they DO whine more than any other group...

>>Littlefinger and Arya playing "Spy vs Spy".... looked like a
>>bit from Tom and Jerry
>
>I gotta believe Arya's playing him, right? There's no way
>she's this obvious out of sloppiness.
>
I hope she is.... they've been pushing the theme all season that Littlefinger may not be as smart or invaluable as he thinks he is... Another bigger arch of the show/books is a changing of the guard, so to speak... out with the old... so, that said, Littlefinger's time should be shortening...

>>Sr Tarly NOT bending the knee once he realized his son was
>>gonna die too if he didn't....
>
>Nah, this one I disagree on. That old racist fuck was ever
>bending the knee in front of the dothraki. Best he could do
>was tell his kid to do it.
>
Then he truly was an idiot... no way is my kid, the one I threw away my first born for, gonna die cause I was too vain

>but yeah.. it's been sloppy. my biggest gripe right now is how
>quickly everyone gets around. treks that used to half a season
>happen in 10 minutes.


this irks me too, but I ignore it for the story....
724179, A lot of the plot stuff this season has been bad
Posted by AZ, Tue Aug-15-17 12:40 PM
I really wish George would finish the books!


These HBO guys do not know how to tell an interesting story.
724205, its the "Mcnulty fake serial killer" of GoT
Posted by Madvillain 626, Wed Aug-16-17 02:27 AM
724183, I must be watching a different GoT than the rest of y'all
Posted by BigWorm, Tue Aug-15-17 01:38 PM
Because I think this season is great.

After 6 seasons of setup, setup, shocking death(s), setup, setup, battle, setup...

Every episode of season 7 wastes no time and is packed with big things happening/changing. For a show winding down to the end, it finally has a since of urgency as all the domino pieces are falling into place.

People are also complaining that it feels rushed but for once I think every episode is satisfying. I mean they are pushing the story forward hard but still giving screen time to characters like Jorah, Sam Tarly and Gendry--the last of whom most of us didn't even remember from earlier seasons.

I don't know how they're going to wrap it all up with so many moving pieces and so few episodes left, but they still got me hooked. I can't think of another show I get more excited to watch.
724185, i'm here w/ you. i love it.
Posted by PROMO, Tue Aug-15-17 02:27 PM
724186, oh, we're mostly all still enjoying it, this season is just...sloppier
Posted by Calico, Tue Aug-15-17 02:46 PM
ESPECIALLY this last episode.... but it just goes to the shows/books genius.... these are still people and therefore they can still do stuff that makes no sense....

724189, Yeah i cant believe there are only 2 eps left
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue Aug-15-17 04:01 PM
And then we might have to wait TWO YEARS for season 8!!!! No sir
724190, I've enjoyed every episode this season immensely
Posted by 3xKrazy, Tue Aug-15-17 04:04 PM
with the exception of the last one. just too much fuckery.
724191, pretty much agree with you but
Posted by sndesai1, Tue Aug-15-17 06:02 PM
the speed with which people are traveling is kinda fucking up my sense of geography on the show

i gotta look up a map after each episode to grasp where things are
724192, I'm loving it but i agree with the criticisms of it
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-15-17 06:05 PM
particularly in this last episode, we're expected to overlook a whole lot of ridiculousness
724203, man this shit flames. we can still critique here and there.
Posted by astralblak, Tue Aug-15-17 09:52 PM
also go to GD for nonstop love

PTP has always had more of the book nerds who are little more cantankerous than the just show fans
724218, yeah i love this shit
Posted by gumz, Wed Aug-16-17 01:43 PM
the time jumps work for me too...aint no time to see 5 episodes of a trek
724193, The way Tormund asked about Brienne was hilarious!
Posted by Pamalama, Tue Aug-15-17 06:06 PM
Was hoping we'd get to see those two together, but I can't see that happening now. Would also like to see more of Davos and Tormund's banter.

Kinda feel like the Hound is gonna eat it. He's already a liability because he's scared of fire and that's one of the ways to kill the White Walkers. Was he cured of his fear when he looked in the flames

How in the hell are they gonna kill a Giant White Walker????

Some ya'll cats are like Beric and the Hound. Beric about to go on this long diatribe about blah, blah, blah (Likes the "build up" crowd). The Hound is like shut the fuck up and let's do this shit (Action crowd).
724195, Bruh! The one with the dragons or the one fu**s her brother
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue Aug-15-17 07:40 PM
That line was hilarious!!!!
724196, There is so much comedic gold going beyond the wall.
Posted by Pamalama, Tue Aug-15-17 07:48 PM
Bronn and Tyrion are really the only ones left. And Tyrion hasn't been in a joking mood lately. Granted Davos is staying, but he's so close to the action, he may not make it either.
724199, Im actually loving the added comedy this season
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue Aug-15-17 08:57 PM
Seems they added alot more, but it fits and isnt overkill. Even the line where Davos corrects Jon and says "fewer" as a throwback to Stannis had me rolling.
724210, It's because the Tyrion we're seeing....
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Aug-16-17 09:21 AM
>And Tyrion hasn't been in a joking mood lately.

... is no longer the Tyrion from the books.
724197, 2 more things - Is Cersei the only woman Jaime has been with?
Posted by Pamalama, Tue Aug-15-17 07:54 PM
Also, Jon and Gendry's interaction reminded me of Robert and Ned.
724213, yes
Posted by Mynoriti, Wed Aug-16-17 12:40 PM
that's what he told catelyn when he was Robs prisoner.
724209, Oh come on....
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Aug-16-17 09:19 AM
>Some ya'll cats are like Beric and the Hound. Beric about to
>go on this long diatribe about blah, blah, blah (Likes the
>"build up" crowd). The Hound is like shut the fuck up and
>let's do this shit (Action crowd).

^^^ this is a false dichotomy ^^^


I love EPIC WARFARE just as much as the next person. Blackwater Bay, Hardhome, and Battle of the Bastards will go down as three of the best episodes in the series when all is said and done. But most of the criticisms levied on this past episode are on the WRITING (and to be fair, my comments are more a dig on Martin than they are on D&D ).

Like I said, I've made peace with the fact that the show is The Show and the books are The Books. But here are (legitimate) gripes with how the show's writing has devolved into getting from Point A to Point B as soon as humanly possible:

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2017/8/15/16147994/ask-the-maester-season-7-episode-5-eastwatch

________________________________________________________________________

“Eastwatch” was a lot. I would argue it was too much. The pace at which the show blows past story-altering twists and reveals that, once upon a season, would have taken multiple episodes to unfurl, is, in this maester’s judgment, slightly concerning. World-building requires meticulous, brick-by-brick consideration—and it isn’t always the most obvious story structures that end up carrying the load. If the show knew it was going to kill Randyll and Dickon, why not have Lord Tarly mention Heartsbane, the Valyrian steel sword Sam stole last season, just once? It’s not like they were going to have to resolve the issue; Drogon would see to that. Why does Jon not mention Longclaw, the former ancestral weapon of House Mormont, to Jorah? Why is Jorah so eager to leave Dany, the love of his life, who he had just crossed the world and conquered greyscale to be with? Davos considers Gendry, who he had a conversation with four seasons ago, “a surrogate son,” apparently. By the way, Davos has a wife and a family; they live in the Stormlands and he’s yet to go visit them or even mention their existence in several seasons. Sam, who cured greyscale because he pays attention better than anyone else, hand-waves Gilly’s monumental discovery then quits the Citadel because … reasons.

________________________________________________________________________


I've recently started rewatching the series from the very beginning and I'm about 3 episodes into the first season. There's a very clear dichotomy between those episodes and these ones. Wit, continuity and intrigue are hallmarks of episodes based heavily on the written material and are big reasons why so many people fell in love with the show in the first place.

Sure, D&D know the major plot points like Hodor and Shireen Baratheon burning in a fire and XXX finally sitting on the Iron Throne. But the benefit of the written material is at least knowing how Point A gets to Point B and D&D, to their immense credit, have done amazingly well in translating the material to the show. But if all they have to work with is a rough outline? The writing unfortunately suffers.

Like I said somewhere above, Martin's decision to stroke his ego in expanding the world when going from book 3 to books 4/5 is going to be lamented as the decision that really harmed the experience. Note that I'm not saying this from a position of being "ungrateful", but rather wistful at what "could have been".

724220, I hear ya.
Posted by Pamalama, Wed Aug-16-17 02:54 PM
I don't agree or disagree really. Just noticing how everyone has a difference of opinion on how we'll get to the end. This show has always left out details that were drawn out in the books, so the current pace is no surprise to me. HBO can't spend money on the next big thing until they get rid of this old thing, so I get it. I just enjoy it for what it is and hope Martin will give the book readers something wonderfully different.
724200, HBO Spain exhibits sixth episode of "Game of Thrones" ahead of time
Posted by j0510, Tue Aug-15-17 09:23 PM
http://www.papelpop.com/2017/08/hbo-espanha-exibe-sem-querer-sexto-episodio-de-game-of-thrones/

HBO Spain exhibits sixth episode of "Game of Thrones" ahead of time

GIULIA COVRE 08/08/2017
22:20

It's not easy for HBO. After episode four was leaked ahead of time, so did the sixth episode, slated to air next Sunday!

What happens is that HBO Spain transmitted (apparently) accidentally on Tuesday (15) about one hour of the unpublished episode (the total is 1h11) in English and without subtitles in Spanish, which was available in the application of the broadcaster For PlayStation 4. For those who want to see a picture of the screen, just click here.

Forums like Reddit and 4chan are posting prints of scenes and even a profile on Instagram exhibited the episode live! The leak is real and the download should be available soon, but we will not post the link, okay?

A very speculated scene has been confirmed and has even gif ready. If you want to check it out, it's in this link.

And now, HBO? Difficult, eh? Or not…
724202, surely keeping season 7 and 8 to 10 eps would've been better...?
Posted by araQual, Tue Aug-15-17 09:50 PM
not just cos we get more Thrones, but to avoid the well warranted criticisms of suddenly abandoning temporal restrictions and how things are happening instantaneously. they could've at least justified the slower piece-moving eps with the regular series order instead of it speeding towards its conclusion. also gives plenty of chances to delve into Westerosi history.

was this really due to budgets or did Dan and Dave truly run out of shit to write about?? cos 7 eps aint shit, and only 6 for the final season? so much damn lore to explore and they couldn't give us 20 final eps instead of 13? the lack of hours left is why we're all accepting it as the way it is, but a regular 10 ep season could've solved this.

V.
724204, RE: surely keeping season 7 and 8 to 10 eps would've been better...?
Posted by j0510, Tue Aug-15-17 09:56 PM
>not just cos we get more Thrones, but to avoid the well
>warranted criticisms of suddenly abandoning temporal
>restrictions and how things are happening instantaneously.
>they could've at least justified the slower piece-moving eps
>with the regular series order instead of it speeding towards
>its conclusion. also gives plenty of chances to delve into
>Westerosi history.
>
>was this really due to budgets or did Dan and Dave truly run
>out of shit to write about?? cos 7 eps aint shit, and only 6
>for the final season? so much damn lore to explore and they
>couldn't give us 20 final eps instead of 13? the lack of hours
>left is why we're all accepting it as the way it is, but a
>regular 10 ep season could've solved this.
>
>V.


Rumor is (haven't read any conformation) most if not all episodes in season 8 will be extended, in the range of 1.5-2 hours.
724230, extended eps would make up for it
Posted by araQual, Wed Aug-16-17 10:15 PM
pity season 7 wasn't like that too.

V.
724206, In interviews it just made it sound like they were burned out
Posted by BigReg, Wed Aug-16-17 08:24 AM
Which I get cause they going on a decade of this shit for everyone involved.

I get the rationale; they have very solid plot points they are going through and have to hit and in the writers room no doubt they have the episodes meticulously planned out. On paper they can end the show in the next 10 episodes they have left (figure 4 episodes on teh whitewalker war, 6 episodes to wrap up Jamie/Cersi/Dany/Jon)

On film though, it feels like almost two different shows...we went from the West Wing to 24, LOL.

Im not mad since the ramp-up in action mirrors what happens in stories during the third act. But as a viewer it feels like a case of whiplash.
724211, I'm certain part of the reason....
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Aug-16-17 09:28 AM
is because they're no longer translating, but actually writing. HBO knows they have enough to finish the story, it's a big ass budget show, the books aren't coming anytime soon, so just git-er-done.

There's no reason to continue the densely layered narrative when that wasn't the showrunners' jobs in the first place.
724219, Plus keeping actors on budget, and wanting to do the spin offs
Posted by Heinz, Wed Aug-16-17 02:47 PM
I like that we are getting shorteneded number of eps and majority longer episodes in these last 2 seasons

If you think about it the last 2 eps are supposed to be longer plus if not all the eps next season. Thats more than half between the 2.



----------

IG @h_n_z
724231, ep6 is 1hr11minsish? sumthn like that
Posted by araQual, Wed Aug-16-17 10:17 PM
all prev eps this season have just maxed out at an hour.
hoping the s7 finale will go at least 1.5hrs.

V.
724242, Yeah. Episode 7 is 1 hour 21 mins
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Thu Aug-17-17 07:00 PM
Like a mini move. Cant wait.

http://watchersonthewall.com/game-thrones-season-7-running-times-revealed-record-length-season-finale-included/
724224, this season had to be insanely expensive
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Wed Aug-16-17 03:57 PM
Ive seen episode 6, i wont spoil anything, but the amount of battles and scenes this year that are large scale, I can see why they needed to trim it down.
724207, episode six leaked
Posted by shockzilla, Wed Aug-16-17 08:42 AM
and goddamn.
724212, Please keep all whisper whisper talk out of this thread.
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Aug-16-17 09:29 AM
Even vague comments like "OMG can't believed that happened to THAT person" is lame and really annoying
724221, I'm already seeing spoilers pop up in my twitter feed
Posted by 3xKrazy, Wed Aug-16-17 03:22 PM
between the speed-race to finish the series and the leaks this shit is getting really disappointing...
724225, Twitter: The Most Dangerous Game©
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Aug-16-17 04:13 PM
724229, i got extra stoned at 4am beforehand n it was amazeballs
Posted by araQual, Wed Aug-16-17 10:14 PM
V.
724236, EPIC!
Posted by KnowOne, Thu Aug-17-17 10:09 AM
nm
724257, No two year wait!!!! Shooting starts in October
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Fri Aug-18-17 02:52 PM
http://www.joblo.com/movie-news/final-season-of-game-of-thrones-to-start-shooting-this-october-219
724302, safe to say that the dragons recognize friend vs foe
Posted by 3xKrazy, Sun Aug-20-17 10:58 PM
i knew the night king was gonna take one of the dragons thanks to the dipshit twitter spoilers...

why couldn't Benjin get on the horse with Jon and ride away? He said there was no time. No time for jumping on a horse?

Jon telling Dany that they never should've went on their expedition...gee, ya think?!?!!!
724303, LOL thought the same thing
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun Aug-20-17 11:12 PM
>why couldn't Benjin get on the horse with Jon and ride away?
>He said there was no time. No time for jumping on a horse?

he could have jumped on the horse in the same amount of time it took to tell him there's no time to jump on the horse

724304, benjin already dead
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-21-17 12:04 AM
he cant go passed the wall anyways

dude was kinda ready to go
724312, i knew he wasnt fully alive but had some level of purpose
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-21-17 08:06 AM
is he going to be a white walker now?
724305, I figured the horse would be slower with two dudes on it.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Aug-21-17 12:20 AM
And Jon would get a better head start with Benj distracting the walkers.
724315, Yup. It's flimsy, but reasonable. n/m
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-21-17 08:35 AM
724357, Agree
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Aug-21-17 07:42 PM
Dude was soaking wet and racing against hypothermia. Benjen prolly figured itd be faster and he could draw the attention of the wights
724306, Great action. Really dumb storytelling.
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Aug-21-17 01:34 AM
Yep, I'm one of those people: D&B need Martin bad to provide a detailed road map for them to follow. If they don't, it's a little of spectacle and good to great acting atop a shaky foundation.
724316, Just trying to connect the dots here.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-21-17 08:37 AM
We're deep into the action climax here, gotta keep chugging along
724322, Regarding the action
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Aug-21-17 09:35 AM
the part of the battle when Jon told the men to retreat while it was established that the White Walkers completely had them surrounded in a full circle before the fighting started confused me a little bit.
724342, This was me.
Posted by LeroyBumpkin, Mon Aug-21-17 03:33 PM
724358, He said fall back
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Aug-21-17 07:44 PM
I guess he figured they could buy more time higher up on the rock or whatever that was
724364, I'm still trying to figure out how they went thru the gate w/ 7 and then totaled 14
Posted by icecold21, Mon Aug-21-17 11:02 PM
Where the other 7 men come from?

I'm sure they are random brotherhood or nights watch ppl but they did just show up out of nowhere to be Walker fodder.

It's just something that stands out as lazy writing in a season full of it.
724368, RE: I'm still trying to figure out how they went thru the gate w/ 7 and then totaled 14
Posted by j0510, Tue Aug-22-17 07:32 AM
>Where the other 7 men come from?
>
>I'm sure they are random brotherhood or nights watch ppl but
>they did just show up out of nowhere to be Walker fodder.
>
>It's just something that stands out as lazy writing in a
>season full of it.


It's not lazy writing. You just weren't paying attention. They were with the main 7 when they left the wall, you were only focused on the 7 because you know and recognize them.

Game of Thrones s07e05 Ending Scene - Jon goes beyond the wall

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x0b4c4a6WI


Jon gives LongClaw to Jorah | Sword Of House Mormont | Game Of Thrones Season 7 Episode 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyccaWD21eM
724382, These mofos are insufferable. Ha
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue Aug-22-17 04:14 PM
Now they're complaining about stuff just because they weren't paying enough attention. You can clearly see a whole crew walking out with them, with torches.
724311, those faces arya had in her attache case
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-21-17 08:03 AM
looked like some shit you'd find in the halloween aisle at Target. I agree with the previous mention that the faceless man stuff was executed far better the first time around with jaquan hygar.

was there any reason jon snow kept fighting off those white walkers while everyone was waiting for him to get on the dragon and bail? or was the idea to simply confirm dany's subtle foreshadowing of 'heroes doing stupid shit'?

i did like the scenery of where they shot the battle with the white walkers. anyone know where that was filmed?
724317, Forgot to mention this for the Loot Train Battle...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-21-17 08:44 AM
but I *highly* recommend watching the "Anatomy of a Scene" extras on HBO or Youtube or whatever, especially for the big battles. Gives you a shit ton more respect for the amount of effort that goes into these things (and makes it easier to stomach the shaky writing):

Loot Train:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE2wcBeyNdk


Doesn't look like last night's is on Youtube yet, but it's easily viewable on any HBO app

But yeah, the amount of work that went into the battle on the frozen lake is insane. They filmed most of the snow trek in Iceland but filmed the frozen lake in Belfast.... and CREATED that whole set.
724349, yeah I've seen it...all the behind the scenes stuff is interesting.
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-21-17 04:55 PM
they just posted one for the latest white walker battle but i haven't watched it yet.
724319, RE: those faces arya had in her attache case
Posted by Mafamaticks, Mon Aug-21-17 09:12 AM
>was there any reason jon snow kept fighting off those white
>walkers while everyone was waiting for him to get on the
>dragon and bail? or was the idea to simply confirm dany's
>subtle foreshadowing of 'heroes doing stupid shit'?

Had to fight them off so the dragon could take off safely. The fact that it was the King of the North was heroes doing stupid shit. But you know how honorable the Starks are
724320, Gendry can book, man
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-21-17 09:22 AM
Dude could line up at most SEC schools at any position with that speed.
724354, shout out to the ravens too
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-21-17 05:34 PM
them birds move like text messages
724321, Someone help me out with this.
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Aug-21-17 09:30 AM
What was the point of getting that dragon glass from Dragonstone if none of it was used to fight the White Walkers in that massive battle?
724331, Timelines be damned...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-21-17 11:48 AM
but I would guess it takes significant time to craft a single blade with an unfamiliar material, let alone arming the whole unit.

That said, Jon and Danaerys and Davos and whoever seem to get to where they need to at the appropriate time, so who knows, lol.
724334, The show even re-introduced Gendry
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Aug-21-17 12:16 PM
who is supposedly one of the better blacksmiths in Westeros, so in theory he could have crafted the improved weaponry for that massive battle.

So it is safe to assume the dragon glass was just a story device to get Jon to travel to Dany?
724336, I think the dragonglass is more than just a plot device...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-21-17 12:58 PM
but I also think that Gendry is there to arm The Night's Watch + Co. as a whole. Obsidian isn't normal steel; I'm guessing there would be a number of failures before the proper technique gets figured out.

That expedition was hastily conceived and hastily executed... it's reasonable to assume they left as soon as they hit Eastwatch.
724346, It wasn't made explicit...
Posted by Auk_The_Blind, Mon Aug-21-17 04:08 PM
...but Jorah and the Hound (at least) had what appeared to be quickly "smithed" dragonglass weapons — Jorah's daggers and the Hound's axe. With the way time has been presented this season, it's a little hard to judge whether they could have forged more/better weapons, but they probably should have included a scene that better conveyed that they had some.

>What was the point of getting that dragon glass from
>Dragonstone if none of it was used to fight the White Walkers
>in that massive battle?
724347, Perfect opportunity for a Dragonglass forging montage
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-21-17 04:20 PM
724359, they all used dragonglass....except for Jon
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Aug-21-17 07:46 PM
Jorah had dragonglass daggers that resembled the ones seen in the episode "Hardhome".....hound had dragonglass daggers and an axe looking thing. And Tormund had dragonglass on that club he was using. I didnt notice until i watched it on super hd
724324, The Winterfell story is irritating
Posted by Calico, Mon Aug-21-17 09:58 AM
...but a true mystery.... who's outsmarting who is at question here, and I don't think Littlefinger is outssmarting anyone.... The moves each Stark girl is making seem to be making zero sense, so i'm figuring they're up to something....

...Glad Dany didn't listen to Tyrion.... it's crazy to think this show really had as storyline where a nephew and aunt arefalling in love with eac other and a brother and sister are already in love with each other and no one bats an eye
724332, Dany not listening to Tyrion seems to be a recurring theme...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-21-17 11:55 AM
724335, i gave up on the whole, sisters are playing Little Finger angle
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-21-17 12:19 PM
that last scene between the two was too personal to buy that they're putting on a show. with no one around no less.

the whole thing is problematic to me. i accepted Arya, as skilled as she is, got played because she came back on some not fully trained, overconfident Luke Skywalker shit. Sansa falling for/trusting LF then sending her actual protection away is a bit ridiculous.

i mentioned in GD, Little Finger reminds me of Ryan O'reilly from Oz. All dude did the whole show was instigate and manipulate. By the time you got to season 5 or so, it became laughable to believe any character would fall for it. they all knew his MO, and they'd all still fall for it, and be all "Thanks, O'reilly!"
724337, I'm not convinced that Arya isn't playing chess here.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Aug-21-17 01:11 PM
Arya wants Littlefinger dead. We know this. Why wouldn't she just mention to Sansa that Littlefinger was scheming for that piece of paper? Maybe because she knows that Sansa is presently in Littlefinger's clutches thanks to the stress of ruling?

I don't know. But either (a) Arya is a step ahead of Littlefinger here, or (b) ... yeah, I have no B. I don't think they'd *both* be so easily conned. Sansa I believe, because Littlefinger *has* had her back before and she's concerned with getting fried by the other lords. But Arya? Nah.
724344, ya i think its certain Arya is playing a game here
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-21-17 03:39 PM
at first I thought Sansa was in on it, possibly something going on offscreen being kept from us


but now I feel like shes messing with both and basically showing Sansa how she can get rid of LF for her
724351, refresh my memory please...what was arya and LF's last interaction?
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-21-17 05:04 PM
>Arya wants Littlefinger dead. We know this.

prior to meeting up in winterfell?

and I assume the only reason why LF is allowed to roam winterfell doing whatever is because the starks need the knights of the vail on their side?
724352, when Arya was working for Tywin
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-21-17 05:15 PM
she was privy to Littlefingers shadyness, specifically being in cahoots with the lannisters and wanting to bring the tyrells into the fold

while supposedly "looking out" for the stark girls
724356, got it. thanks.
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-21-17 05:42 PM
that reminds me of how badly i wanted arya to be the one to kill tywin. hopefully she gets a shot at cersei...
724479, Yeah, I was right. People were worried for no reason.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Aug-28-17 01:55 AM
Hood called it above too.
724338, Starks are dumb
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-21-17 01:16 PM
That's the only explanation.

LMAO @ nobody being able to give Sansa an answer for anything.

"I'm the three-eyed Raven."
" . . . I don't know what that means"
"Sorry, can't tell you."

"What's this?"
"My bag of faces"
" . . ."
"You know, the bag where I keep my faces? It's pretty obvious."
724339, RE: Starks are dumb
Posted by Calico, Mon Aug-21-17 01:59 PM
actually... the "starks are dumb" thing HAS a bit of merit.... They all seem to be their own worst enemies.... They die and end up in trouble from trusting the wrong people or acting without thinking it through... for each one, their sense of pride, and "i know what i'm doing" gets them in hot water time and time again
724340, RE: Starks are dumb
Posted by gumz, Mon Aug-21-17 02:44 PM
>That's the only explanation.
>

This really is the only thing that makes sense...Jon and Bran will be the only Survivors since neither of them is a Stark anymore
724350, Does Dany/Jon and co. need the Lannister army to battle the dead?
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-21-17 05:00 PM
otherwise I'm not sure if next episodes meet and greet in kings landing makes any sense.

I'm still unsure exactly how ravaged the Lannister army is after the loot train battle + the losses at casterly rock.
724353, Nope.
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Aug-21-17 05:20 PM
Near as I can tell, the "logic" behind the meeting is, "Promise not to attack us while we're off fight the White Walkers."
724355, as if the lannisters would take the offensive
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-21-17 05:38 PM
and try to swoop in north of the wall against all their armies + dragons...

+ the army of the dead.
724360, I figured it was an all hands on deck situation
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Aug-21-17 07:50 PM
The Night King Army is massive so it was make sense to try to get all the living soldiers on the same side, fighting together
724376, ^^^
Posted by Rjcc, Tue Aug-22-17 11:15 AM

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
724380, I mean, isn't this The Avengers?
Posted by Ryan M, Tue Aug-22-17 01:56 PM
Let's group a bunch of forces who dont really like each other together to save the world against evil.

That's what I got, anyway.
724383, an army without dragonglass or dragons doesn't seem all that valuable
Posted by 3xKrazy, Tue Aug-22-17 04:22 PM
prior to the knowledge of the night king/spear stuff...the easiest way to defeat the army of the dead would've been to just let the 3 dragons loose on them. why bother with hand to hand combat?

and now that they know that killing the night king kills the rest of the army...it would make most sense to go after him directly.
724388, There's still strength in numbers
Posted by gumz, Tue Aug-22-17 07:32 PM
And they could use more people to mine the dragon glass...not having to worry about being attacked would help with that. Once mined they could arm more people with it. They will also need a huge army fighting off wights while key players go after the Night King
724402, Your logic is the easiest way to lose a battle
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Wed Aug-23-17 04:23 PM
Under-estimate the enemy and just assume you can easily win. Good thing there is a meeting now that WE KNOW the dragons can be killed AND turned. Had they just assumed and chilled they'd be fucked right about now. I don't see why its so crazy to want to have the entire living army on your side against the entire dead army. Granted, its Cersei, but the logic still makes perfect sense.
724415, RE: Your logic is the easiest way to lose a battle
Posted by 3xKrazy, Thu Aug-24-17 08:39 AM
>Under-estimate the enemy and just assume you can easily win.

I'm not sure where I underestimated the enemy or assumed Dany/Jon could win.

Just that bringing a few extra lannister swords with you isn't going to help much especially in relation to the extremely reckless and risky actions it took to MAYBE get the lannisters on your side. and even if they do it's a 100% guarantee that Dany/Jon will be backstabbed by cersei in the long run.

it just bothers me that while cersei is a sitting duck in the throne...the rest of the world is out there risking their neck, losing lives and essentially doing her bidding for her. makes no sense.
724470, Cause she has her own agendas and is pure evil BUT
Posted by Heinz, Sun Aug-27-17 11:05 PM
Tyrion noticimg her not drink with him, rub her stomach and the way she talked he had one thing to make her change her mind. Children. She lost all her kids. She only does what she does for the survival of her kids and family. She knew her kids odds for survival are better with the truce.


----------

IG @h_n_z
724473, wait what? there is no truce.
Posted by 3xKrazy, Sun Aug-27-17 11:26 PM
>ly does what she
>does for the survival of her kids and family. She knew her
>kids odds for survival are better with the truce.

and she even conceded that her army won't help shit against the white walkers which is what i been saying.

not to mention the 100% guarantee that Team Dany/Jon were going to get backstabbed as a result of that meeting.
724477, Didn't She say we will fight with you
Posted by Heinz, Mon Aug-28-17 12:21 AM
But after that it's fair game? I mean she's gonna double cross them tho lol but yeah. Was the I'm pregnant thing still a fake out for Tyrion? Was she banking on him trying to persuade her? Ionno it was hard for me to think all of it was part of her plan so maybe that's why I think she just altered her plan
----------

IG @h_n_z
724481, she did initially accept the truce
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 03:50 AM
but changed her tune when Jon opened his mouth about pledging the north to Dany

when Tyrion showed up, i also took it as her just altering when she sensed an opportunity

what about the Yuron thing tho? they staged that in advance, or her people chased him down? lol
724484, i thought it was clear they staged that in advance
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-28-17 07:15 AM
>what about the Yuron thing tho? they staged that in advance,
>or her people chased him down? lol

which is why jamie was pissed he wasnt informed about it.

and the speech euron gave as he bailed from the meeting seemed really awkward and forced. but then again so did the rest of the meeting.
724483, in her exchange with jamie
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-28-17 07:15 AM
she said they would not be fighting the white walkers alongside everyone else.

it was all just a big lie.
724512, I understand the side convo but
Posted by Heinz, Mon Aug-28-17 01:29 PM
In it didn't she say Euron was taking that army she has in her back pocket to attack while the army that Jon and co. only know about were fighting alongside them.

But yeah I thought THAT was the backstabbing. The staged exit by Euro was so that he can go get the the other army alongside his own to attack while everyone else is busy fighting the bigger war.

The only thing I thought wasnt believable was her anticipating Tyrion coming on his own to try and change her mind and then she pledged that they were gonna fight alongside them.



----------

IG @h_n_z
724391, It doesn't make sense
Posted by AZ, Tue Aug-22-17 09:46 PM

Like most of everything else that's going on in this story right now
724403, It makes sense
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Wed Aug-23-17 04:25 PM
Living versus dead. Have all the living soldiers available on your side. When you're facing an army of walking dead why would you just chill and assume you can easily win, with so much at risk??? I dont get what you guys are missing
724404, the problem with this plan is that as your soldiers die
Posted by Rjcc, Wed Aug-23-17 05:50 PM
their army gets bigger, so you're kinda bringing the night king new soldiers.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
724421, true......but
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Thu Aug-24-17 07:19 PM
they dont just turn like zombies....they have to be raised by the night king or his "generals" and when you kill one of them they all die. i see your point though.
724462, they got me
Posted by x49, Sun Aug-27-17 09:31 PM
i really thought that sansa was going have arya executed
724463, LF fake cried like a little biotch...still didnt work
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Sun Aug-27-17 10:03 PM
724467, post 27
Posted by J_Stew, Sun Aug-27-17 10:54 PM
edit: and my original post meant "either she wacks him or Arya (whacks him)"
724469, ya he was getting played from the begining
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Sun Aug-27-17 10:57 PM
724474, ^^^^prophet^^^^
Posted by x49, Sun Aug-27-17 11:45 PM
724472, me too but
Posted by Mynoriti, Sun Aug-27-17 11:14 PM
mostly because in their showdown last week, they were alone.

i thought at most, it could only be one of them plotting.

dope scene though, since i wasn't expecting it
724476, I think Bran just saved the day and finally let them know
Posted by Heinz, Mon Aug-28-17 12:18 AM
It would be stupid of the put on that convo and Little Finger was nowhere to overhear it. So im gonna assume they were talking for it. They should've at least shown them separately talking to Bran but we don't get to hear it. We also just have to assume he told them at some point after maybe Arya went to him for advice or to be like do you know what Sansa did?! And then he would've corrected them both. The assumption part is very annoying about the writing of that storyline
----------

IG @h_n
724482, that would make more sense
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 03:51 AM
724485, Sansa giving such intricate details makes it clear Bran told them
Posted by Y2Flound, Mon Aug-28-17 07:52 AM
We don't really have to assume, but just because she didn't say the words "Bran told me" doesn't mean she didn't basically say Bran told me.

She called him out for everything he did from episode 1 which nobody knew about. She called him out for supplying the dagger for Bran to be killed. Bran sat there and confirmed it just in case you were wondering where she got the info.

There's no real assumption here, we know Bran told them, they just didn't show us that scene because that would make the show a lot less interesting.
724486, yeah but the question is when
Posted by gumz, Mon Aug-28-17 07:58 AM
Were they always plotting or were they actually beefing at first and Bran put them on to game? That part we'll never know now
724490, I don't think it's actually that important.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-28-17 09:34 AM
The implication that the three siblings collaborated is what's key, not the timing. It could have been before Arya entered Littlefinger's room or before Sansa entered Arya's room or heck, right before that Grand Hall meeting. You could come up with reasons where each scenario makes sense... but does it actually matter?

Sansa realizing the resource she had in Bran and trusting Arya (even though when they parted they HATED each other) are the key takeaways here.

And, to be honest, if we saw them working together behind the scenes it would have ruined a really great scene.
724492, ^yep!^ i agree with all of this here....
Posted by Voodoochilde, Mon Aug-28-17 09:40 AM
>RE: I don't think it's actually that important.
>The implication that the three siblings collaborated is
>what's key, not the timing. It could have been before Arya
>entered Littlefinger's room or before Sansa entered Arya's
>room or heck, right before that Grand Hall meeting. You could
>come up with reasons where each scenario makes sense... but
>does it actually matter?
>
>Sansa realizing the resource she had in Bran and trusting Arya
>(even though when they parted they HATED each other) are the
>key takeaways here.
>
>And, to be honest, if we saw them working together behind the
>scenes it would have ruined a really great scene.>

totally agree...

724494, RE: I don't think it's actually that important.
Posted by Scrapluv, Mon Aug-28-17 10:05 AM
>And, to be honest, if we saw them working together behind the
>scenes it would have ruined a really great scene.

Exactly this
724498, 1000%. It doesn't matter.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Aug-28-17 10:45 AM
724508, yup you just have to accept it was intentionally left vague
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-28-17 12:55 PM
724502, i disagree with this part
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 12:36 PM
>It could have been before Arya
>entered Littlefinger's room or before Sansa entered Arya's
>room or heck, right before that Grand Hall meeting. You could
>come up with reasons where each scenario makes sense...

I'm not sure the reason on their end why it would make sense to have had that showdown alone last week. what are they, method acting?

>And, to be honest, if we saw them working together behind the
>scenes it would have ruined a really great scene.

this is all true. i love the payoff, and it's fine to not tell us and allow us to speculate. but them getting together with Bran either together or individually makes sense. them tricking littlefinger the whole time does not.
724505, Littlefinger is just as connected as Varys.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-28-17 12:53 PM
Remember that scene in the very first season when he's walking with Ned and pointing out various spies that are employed by himself, Varys and Cersei?

It's more than reasonable to assume he's got that same network in Winterfell (at the very least amongst Knights of the Vale).

To truly throw Baelish off the scent, the siblings conspired to pit Arya vs Sansa and you can't have that without them confronting each other (thus setting up Sansa's further deception in the "I play a little game" scene with Littlefinger).

See how that works? You can come up with any number of reasons that makes sense in terms of timing... and it's fine. But does it matter? Nah.
724511, ehh that's a huge stretch
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 01:12 PM
let's put on this epic highly emotional performance on the off chance one of Littlefingers little birds is spying on us in this private room?
724515, We literally just saw Arya and Sansa...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-28-17 01:37 PM
method act their way into the Great Hall. You want to quibble over the timing of their collaboration but, again... does it matter?

There were 5 or 6 different points where Bran could have apprised Sansa about Littlefinger's danger: when he arrived, after Arya arrived, after Arya found the letter, after Sansa found the masks, after Brienne was sent away, after the "I play a little game" scene.. but, again... does it matter?

The whole point of those scenes is to create doubt in the viewer then the resolution let us fill in the blanks. Not the first time we've seen this in the series either.
724520, I'm not talking about those other scenarios. I'm talking about this one
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 02:37 PM
it's not a huge deal, but since you brought it up, i'll continue to say it seems ridiculous.
724521, Lol, you're so pressed to *believe* that scene is true.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-28-17 03:22 PM
So *believe* it to be true; that's your prerogative and that's perfectly fine. I have no issues with it.

Again, why does it matter?
724523, pressed? we're just talking
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 03:47 PM
>Again, why does it matter?

is this your catchphrase or something?
724524, It's a legitimate question.
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-28-17 04:11 PM
Why does it matter if the scenes we've seen with Sansa are 100% truthful or in full sibling-deception mode? For this particular story arc, it actually doesn't matter. The point of Littlefinger's death was that the siblings were 100% united, regardless of *when* that happened.

724526, another circle? nah
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 04:36 PM
724544, You haven't answered the question. Cheers.
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-29-17 08:48 AM
724561, Lol i'm the one who's pressed, huh?
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-29-17 01:45 PM
If we're speculating, on how we got to that point, then, yes it matters if one scenario is plausible, and one is ridiculous. If they were to ever explain it next season, and we were told the sisters were "acting" in that scene in a room, by themselves, yes that would put a damper on what was a really great payoff. by your line of logic, any ridiculous thing would have been ok as long as it threw the viewer off so we could have that moment.
724562, I'm actually not.
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-29-17 02:01 PM
Note that my original premise implied that the viewer can interpret those scenes however they want. I'm not the one trying to qualify a specific scene as "true" or not, I'm pushing for people to interpret them how *they* want.

If you want to get into the nuts and bolts though... if Arya was seriously trying to put one over on Littlefinger, why didn't she use her faces? It would have been simple to use a face, shuffle about as if she's a cleaning lady and get her information that way.

Littlefinger didn't know she was (formerly) of the Faceless Men until *Sansa* told him.

Remember, this is the same Arya that took down basically the ENTIRE Frey clan using presumably any number of nondescript faces. Probably served them Frey pie too. It's clear she's skilled both as a Faceless Man and as a warrior (maybe a chef?!?) so why would she be sloppy when she KNOWS Littlefinger is manipulative AND Sansa is indebted to him?

Edit: On top of all that, in that scene you think is "ridiculous", Arya hands Sansa the dagger at the end. If Arya *actually* wanted to kill Sansa then why would she hand her a way to defend herself? Giving Sansa the dagger was probably a show of faith, which *cannot* be noticed if someone is eavesdropping.


If you want to actually discuss what we've seen on screen, sure, I'm game. If you think that "method acting" scene between Arya and Sansa was ridiculous then I'm curious how you'd reconcile that with the facts above.
724564, the scene with Sansa, and Arya is fine as long as it's not performance
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-29-17 03:01 PM
We can go on and on about Arya's skillset, it doesn't change any of that.

If I had to guess, I think Arya was being seen on purpose. Her hiding was too sloppy to believe otherwise. At some point they got on the same page, but I think it took place after their showdown last week, with Bran obviously being the key. I don't think Sansa was completely fooled by littlefinger, but believe she was legit freaked out by Arya, and Arya was legit weary of Sansa. Since Arya knew the whole backstory about the dagger, i think it's pretty clear Bran filled her and Sansa in on all kinds of shit.
724569, Sure, that's perfect. I'm good with that.
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-29-17 03:07 PM
I got no issues with any of that...


See how that works?
724518, Exactly
Posted by Heinz, Mon Aug-28-17 02:13 PM

----------

IG @h_n_z
724514, Yeah I think it does matter
Posted by Heinz, Mon Aug-28-17 01:35 PM
because it doesnt make the private convos/arguments make sense IMO were they real? were they for show? and if so for who and where were they to overhear? A sudden awakening is weird. Especially when they barely show the 3 of them talking to each other to make the connection that hey Bran knew this shit all along and just recently decided to tell his sisters....AND we don't get to see it because it would spoil that reveal who the charges were actually against. I think they sacrificed the storytelling to have that moment.

It's not BIG deal but making the audience assume things is kind of lazy.


----------

IG @h_n_z
724535, not super important but would be nice to know
Posted by gumz, Mon Aug-28-17 09:38 PM
Since we watched it unfold it would give some context to what we saw. End result remains the same but still
724545, I don't disagree...
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-29-17 08:49 AM
but in an show that no longer has a literary foundation and we're obviously trying to get from point A to point B as fast as possible... I get why they're trying to maintain some level of misdirection and "Hollywood" moments for the viewer.
724507, It'll be hilarious
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Aug-28-17 12:53 PM
if Sansa is forced to 'marrying' that uber Mother's Boy guy from the Vale now that Littlefinger is out the picture.

Is that something that's close to actually occurring since she needs the fighters from the Vale?
724522, Well that's her cousin
Posted by Hitokiri, Mon Aug-28-17 03:40 PM
And that sort of thing doesn't go over well.
724488, cersei and the lannister army was never going to head north
Posted by 3xKrazy, Mon Aug-28-17 08:38 AM
and fight a far superior dany/jon army.

when cersei bailed on the meeting and everyone was bemoaning how 'fucked' they were...well that made no sense.

not feeling the next edition of theon's revival. him and 15 other dudes setting to the seas on 2 row boats to square off vs euron doesn't seem like a wise move.
724489, Theon's going to die saving Yara
Posted by Marauder21, Mon Aug-28-17 09:06 AM
And "redeem" himself.
724491, Why was Tyrion lurking like that in the cut outside Dany's room?
Posted by icecold21, Mon Aug-28-17 09:39 AM
Why does he have a problem with this?
724495, That was my big question after the show...
Posted by wallysmith, Mon Aug-28-17 10:17 AM
why should it matter that those two were hooking up?

Our initial thought was that it may somehow make Tyrion irrelevant.... but not really, because he's still the Queen's Hand. Jon trusts him as well so it's not like Jon would want to force him out.

Really weird.



(unless he just misses the bad poosy and wishes he was getting some right there)
724497, He's jealous, duh.
Posted by Frank Longo, Mon Aug-28-17 10:43 AM
He sent Daario away, he sent Jorah away the second he got back. He ain't about the whore life anymore, and he spends an awful lot of time trying to keep Dany away from the front. If we want to talk about why Tyrion's strategies have seemed so shitty, we might need to start considering that he's letting feeling cloud his judgment.

Color me interested in how Tyrion deals with this relationship and how he'll inevitably handle the news about Dany and Jon being related.
724509, either he's worried about losing influence or that whole talk
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-28-17 12:58 PM
about her having an heir/what to do if she dies was him trying to throw down some romantic hints lol
724500, Wonder if he knows the truth about Jon
Posted by Y2Flound, Mon Aug-28-17 11:12 AM
He drinks and he knows things, maybe he knows and seeing them together means bad things are going to come of it.
724501, RE: Wonder if he knows the truth about Jon
Posted by Scrapluv, Mon Aug-28-17 12:28 PM
>He drinks and he knows things, maybe he knows and seeing them
>together means bad things are going to come of it.

How would he know tho? There's no way he could have a clue about that
724531, There have to be people who have suspicions right?
Posted by Y2Flound, Mon Aug-28-17 05:09 PM
I mean it wasn't that long ago in the world and people have commented how it never fit Ned Stark to be unfaithful.

Littlefinger and Varys seem like people who might have a suspicion of it. I don't believe that nobody in the world has any clue about something that happened like 20 years ago.
724503, Unlike the majority of the other folks
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Aug-28-17 12:38 PM
that responded, I don't think Tyrion is upset because of romantic reasons; Jon is someone Dany clearly has asked for advice from before they linked up last night and it stands to reason she'll listen to Jon with a keener ear as result of them hooking up. He feels as if Jon is going to box him out in terms of providing advice and counsel.

I suppose we shall see if that'll come to fruition when the show returns.
724506, yeah, i think he just feels like it will complicate shit more
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 12:53 PM
.
724513, For better or for worse, Tyrion thinks he's top shelf material
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Aug-28-17 01:30 PM
in terms of his value to Dany. With Jon getting into the mix, he probably fears he'll get stocked on that Jorah Friendzone shelf instead. As selfish as that might be, I can't blame him for being concerns since Dany has openly defied his advice twice now if I'm not mistaken. I have to imagine he'll get put into the doghouse when it eventually gets revealed to what extent Cersei is defying both Dany and Jon, especially since he by his lonesome met with Cersei to iron out that show of suppose against the White Walkers.
724519, ya if cersei betrays them
Posted by GriftyMcgrift, Mon Aug-28-17 02:15 PM
i feel like dany will be putting alot of the blame on tyrion
724525, Because he probably made a deal with Cersei
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Aug-28-17 04:34 PM
They've spent a lot of the last two episodes preoccupied with how Dany can't have kids. Tyrion has been especially concerned with the line of succession. Then, during Tyrion's meeting with Cersei, he realizes that she's pregnant. Then the scene changes.

I'm guessing he made worked out something with Cersei that no matter what happens, if Dany dies, Cersei's child will be the next king/queen. It's probably why he advises her to fly north on Drogon rather than risk assassination by an angry Northerner, because he doesn't want to put Cersei right back in control.

Now, with him seeing Jon go into her cabin, he knows that Jon could well knock her up. And if she gets pregnant, that will severely complicate things with dueling "heirs." And it will put Tyrion in a shitload of trouble when he has to explain what he did.

Of course, Cersei never intended to keep up her end of the bargain and send any soldiers North. Or even stay at home and not re-take the lands while Dany is away. And that's going to be obvious soon. So I don't see why, when that inevitably happens, Tyrion will feel like he's got to stay true to his word.
724527, Pretty sure you have read the books... Right?
Posted by josephmurf2384, Mon Aug-28-17 04:43 PM
Not going to go into detail to ruin anything but my main complaint is Aegon here Vs Aegon in the books is a cheap way to completely wipe out that story line. Will be interesting if we ever get the finished books how he deal with that discrepancy in writing or if he somehow ties it full circle.
724528, Yep, read the books.
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Aug-28-17 04:46 PM
And the Aegon issue is a whole can of worms that the show couldn't really tackle.
724537, y'all mind breaking it down
Posted by astralblak, Mon Aug-28-17 10:44 PM
the aegon angle of the book story
724576, In the Books it has not been revealed Jon is a Targaeryn, but
Posted by josephmurf2384, Tue Aug-29-17 04:10 PM
There is another Targaeryn named Aegon. I believe he was in Dorne at the end of dance with Dragons. So essentially it seems the shows has deleted the Aegon from the books to make Jon Aegon to avoid having the tell that story.
724577, Ok... MAJOR SPOILERS HERE
Posted by Hitokiri, Tue Aug-29-17 04:15 PM
You sure, bro?
You never gonna read these books?

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Still sure?

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So in the fifth book, we learn that apparently Aegon Targaryen (son of Rhaegar) who we believed to have been killed along with his mother Elia and his sister Rhaenys by Gregor "The Mountain" Clegane during the sack of Kings Landing, is actually alive. As a baby he was smuggled out of King's Landing and replaced with another child (who was killed by the mountain). He was brought to Essos where he has been groomed for ruling his whole life and is nearly ready to head back to Westeros in order to try to take the throne.

A lot of folks, myself felt this was really cheap on the part of GRRM and much too late to try to add a character like this to the story. But it's there now. So...
724579, In addition to this... ^^^
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-29-17 04:47 PM
MORE SPOILERS INCOMING STOP READING IF YOU"RE NOT GONNA READ


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The crazy thing is the young Aegon plan was also set into motion by Varys and Illyrio Mopatis... as the plan A (!!!). Daenerys was never part of their original plans to restore a Targaryen on the throne, she was just value added for Viserys, who was the original plan B.


Some other random details....

- Jon Connington, short-lived Hand of the King to Aerys Targaryen and good friend to Prince Rhaegar, is the one grooming Aegon Targaryen. He contracts the greyscale that was instead given to Jorah Mormont

- There may be some merit to the theory that young Aegon Targaryen isn't who people claim he is... ("Power resides where men believe it resides..." - Varys)
724532, Doesn't Tyrion know Dany can't have children?
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 05:09 PM
or at least believe that?

if so, why would he be worried about her fucking?

724533, But he also knows that there's a chance that she's wrong
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Aug-28-17 05:14 PM
As Jon pointed out, the Witch isn't the most reliable source of information. Tyrion likely figures that as well. So, all the more reason for him to be worried that she's fucking someone on the regular after he cuts that deal.
724546, ^^ astute ^^
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-29-17 08:53 AM
I'm rolling with this explanation, good call.

Another reasonable explanation I read was that Tyrion sees that Daenerys now has greater incentive to act on her feelings/instincts. She had already moved away from his counsel several times and now Jon will have even more sway on her decisions.

As we've seen, Jon, while honorable, isn't exactly the most tactically sound.
724555, Damn, this is a great theory.
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Aug-29-17 11:29 AM
Of course Cersei would be royally (heh, boom) fucking that up by reneging on that deal, which she will do-- but then again, that's sort of Cersei's thing, I reckon.
724563, You know I kinda thought there could be more to their convo
Posted by icecold21, Tue Aug-29-17 02:51 PM
but this really puts it together. It makes a lot of sense.

But at this point absolutely no one should be trusting anything she says.
724565, How would Tyrion be able to unilaterally enforce such a thing?
Posted by 3xKrazy, Tue Aug-29-17 03:02 PM

>I'm guessing he made worked out something with Cersei that no
>matter what happens, if Dany dies, Cersei's child will be the
>next king/queen.
724605, This is my new favorite theory too.
Posted by phenompyrus, Wed Aug-30-17 08:03 AM
The ending is going to be a bittersweet one, so having Cersei not die in S7 makes me think she may actually get to win, even if that means dying and her child is the one who sits on the throne.

Through the whole show, the Lannisters were always in control (even with Robert on the throne).
724510, What say you folks:
Posted by Numba_33, Mon Aug-28-17 12:58 PM
Do you all think Dany is fully aware Jon came back from the dead or is she still in the dark about that? She saw all the scars Jon had from the penultimate episode, but I dunno if she just chalked that up to normally battle wounds or not. She made it a point to press him on that at least two or three times now, so I wonder if she's aware or not.
724516, The thing with Jon being dead he's different
Posted by Heinz, Mon Aug-28-17 01:43 PM
He's not like the others who have been brought back. He's also just different in general even if he didnt die and come back LOL. Dude has many other special abilities it seems so maybe being brought back has a different future for him than the others.

So im still suspect that all the "undead rules" apply to him


----------

IG @h_n_z
724529, She knows
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Aug-28-17 04:56 PM
She saw a massive wound right where his heart should be, and she shook her head in shock during the scene. She def knows. Those dont look like normal battle wounds.
724530, Any thoughts on why The Mountain didnt kill Jaimie?
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Mon Aug-28-17 05:07 PM
She gave the head nod to kill him but for some reason The Mountain let him go
724534, I guess FrankenMoutain knew she was bluffing too
Posted by Mynoriti, Mon Aug-28-17 05:32 PM
All he's done all season is step forward lol
724538, really. shit i kinda forgot he was The Hounds bro
Posted by astralblak, Mon Aug-28-17 10:48 PM
until that moment in the opening scene
724552, frankenmountain has shown he's pretty good at reading a room
Posted by Rjcc, Tue Aug-29-17 10:32 AM

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
724541, my question is..when Jaimie said "I dont believe you"...
Posted by KnowOne, Tue Aug-29-17 08:14 AM
did he mean I dont believe you would actually have me killed so Im calling your bluff? Or OMG I cant believe it, you would actually go as far as killing me!

It was hard for me to tell
724567, i assumed he meant the former but it works both ways
Posted by gumz, Tue Aug-29-17 03:05 PM
cause his face of anguish kinda went along with the second option...that was a great scene. i genuinely thought he was about to die
724585, So did i, even though Jaime's had resting pearl clutch face
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-29-17 06:29 PM
all season

724549, So what is Jamie's move now?
Posted by icecold21, Tue Aug-29-17 09:40 AM
Is he leaving KL?

Does he try to reason with Cersei again?

Warn the others about he double cross and/or join them?


Seems like he's finally realized how much his relationship with her has changed, and how little respected he is by her. And after having his life threatened by her, is it enough to turn him against her?

He's really caught between a rock and a hard place.
724553, There's nothing for him in King's Landing anymore
Posted by Marauder21, Tue Aug-29-17 11:02 AM
Now that he and Cersei are on the outs, there's no reason not to go north and join the rest of the team. Remember, he became the Kingslayer because the Mad King was about to use wildfire on innocent people. Cersei already did that. This has been coming since he got back from the Riverlands.
724554, Definitely should create some great drama between him and Dany.
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Aug-29-17 11:28 AM
And it will obviously continue to create a rift between Dany and Tyrion if Tyrion vouches for his brother.
724600, I don't think it will
Posted by josephmurf2384, Tue Aug-29-17 09:42 PM
Danny accepted Tyrion with little hesitation. I Think the Danny and Jami dynamic will be the same as when Catlyn let him escape. Plus Browne will vouch for him and Brann will probably be there as well.
724607, Tyrion didn't kill Dany's dad, though.
Posted by Frank Longo, Wed Aug-30-17 09:20 AM
Jamie did. He's known as the Oath Breaker, for fuck's sake-- I think that would cause some pretty reasonable concern on her part, lol.
724610, RE: Tyrion didn't kill Dany's dad, though.
Posted by Numba_33, Wed Aug-30-17 09:45 AM
>Jamie did. He's known as the Oath Breaker, for fuck's sake--
>I think that would cause some pretty reasonable concern on her
>part, lol.


If Jamie tries to ingratiate himself with Dany by letting her know Cersei plans to double cross everyone by not fighting against the White Walkers, that could put Tyrion in the doghouse since that'll be yet another instance where Tyrion gave Dany bad counsel.
724619, She also has admitted that her Dad was crazy
Posted by josephmurf2384, Wed Aug-30-17 02:04 PM
and not a good person, so i think she will get over that.
724666, both her and Jon should want to kill his ass
Posted by gumz, Sat Sep-02-17 01:07 PM
724566, What's that Jaime/Bran reunion gonna look like?
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-29-17 03:05 PM
I know Bran ain't Bran anymore but still lol
724568, oh damn...i didn't even think about that
Posted by gumz, Tue Aug-29-17 03:07 PM
my guess is Bran won't care but Arya might try to kill...i mean Jon will want his head for sure

do the other siblings know he pushed Bran? I can't remember if that came out or not
724572, i don't remember either
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-29-17 03:24 PM
I *think* only 3 Eyed Raven Bran knows. I know Bran couldn't remember, but i don't recall if it ever came to light.

>do the other siblings know he pushed Bran? I can't remember if
>that came out or not
724597, He may just get got by a random northerner to be honest
Posted by gumz, Tue Aug-29-17 08:52 PM
They all hate Lannisters up there at this point and he's riding up there solo
724571, the easiest remaining option for him
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Aug-29-17 03:19 PM
is to go to Winterfell since that's where Brienne of Tarth is since they have something of a connection to each other. But like others have already mentioned, him and Bran have a rocky relationship to say the least, and it wouldn't surprise me if Arya tries to murk him simply because she could use his face as a disguise to get close to Cersei, who I think is number one on her Kill Bill list.
724573, It's pretty comical
Posted by Numba_33, Tue Aug-29-17 03:33 PM
how dismissive the show runners are in regards to the storylines regarding the remaining Dornish women. After that poison death sentence was given by Cersei roughly three or so episodes ago, not one mentioned or scene with them ever again. I have to admit the Dornish portions from the fourth and fifth books were like complete torture to me, so I can't day I disagree with that perspective from the show runners, but it's pretty funny how much they seemed to have also mock George RR Martin in that regard.
724575, My personal theory....
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-29-17 03:51 PM
is that they went down the Dornish storyline because that was on the printed page. As time (and seasons) wore on, the prospect of a new book seemed less likely by the time production rolled around so they just decided to axe it and get on with the good stuff.

It's sad, but it is what it is.
724578, i was gonna ask why rescuing ellaria sand
Posted by 3xKrazy, Tue Aug-29-17 04:16 PM
wasnt very high on dany's list of priorities haha
724580, Bronn's gonna free Tyene Sand and run off with her
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-29-17 04:55 PM
Maybe throw Elaria at the Mountain and run off while he snaps her in two

at least that's how it plays out in my head
724581, They play such a small role in the overall narrative.
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Aug-29-17 05:57 PM
Other than killing the Lannister girl, have they done really anything that affects the Stark/Lannister/Targaryean storyline stuff in any serious way? At least the Tyrells fucked shit up in Kings Landing for a spell.
724586, Tyene is dead by now and im not sure anyone knows her mom is down there
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue Aug-29-17 06:31 PM
724590, They said right after that aired that the story line was dead for the season
Posted by josephmurf2384, Tue Aug-29-17 07:50 PM
It may be part of next year, but it was not something they covered this year.
724623, i loved the Dornish stuff in the books
Posted by makaveli, Wed Aug-30-17 03:39 PM
besides the viper, it was terribly done in the show.
724636, because that shit dont matter. the sand snakes are done.
Posted by BrooklynWHAT, Thu Aug-31-17 10:49 AM
724639, yeah that was a slight issue I had with this season
Posted by BigWorm, Thu Aug-31-17 12:38 PM
I mean it was cool when Euron's men pull off the surprise attack and wipe everyone out. But since it was introduced, on the show Dorne was like the wildcard, and the Sandsnakes were supposed to be these badass fighters.

But then, yeah, they get killed off, Ellaria gets captured with her daughter, and that's a wrap.

Dany quickly took her dragon and an army over to beat down the Lannisters after they defeated the Tyrells. But her whole fleet gets destroyed and one of her allies captured, and when she's in King's Landing that shit doesn't even come up once. Not even "Oh since there's a truce now, can you release that prisoner?" Theon with with them all so it's not like she couldn't have known that Ellaria was captured.

I'm still very happy with the season, but I can't help but think it would all play out a bit better if the show were still following the books (as in, if there were more books to follow). And the dialogue would probably have a little more meat to it than "We're fucked."




724665, apparently they won't factor into season 8 either
Posted by araQual, Sat Sep-02-17 10:06 AM
according to Indira Varma (Ellaria Sand) she won't be appearing in s8.

V.
724582, How's Sam gonna react when he finds out Jon's banging the aunt...
Posted by Frank Longo, Tue Aug-29-17 05:58 PM
... who murdered his brother and dad?
724583, RE: How's Sam gonna react when he finds out Jon's banging the aunt...
Posted by j0510, Tue Aug-29-17 06:17 PM
>... who murdered his brother and dad?


I don't think Sam would be mad that his father was killed. He didn't like his father. His father is the one who made him join the Night's Watch.

His brother maybe, but I don't see it. His brother was the anointed one in the sense of being the larger, fiercer of the two that would carry on the Tarly name.

Sam understands the larger picture in all of this.
724584, Sam adopted an incest baby
Posted by Mynoriti, Tue Aug-29-17 06:19 PM
so that part's probably not the worst thing in the world

and he knows his dad was a racist dick who all but disowned him. he may have a soft spot for his brother though

isn't sam the heir to House Tarly now though? He was released from the Night's Watch to go to Meister school
724587, yup. House Tarly still lives.
Posted by Sofian_Hadi, Tue Aug-29-17 06:32 PM
And he's got the family sword.
724598, Was he released or sent there to become their maester?
Posted by gumz, Tue Aug-29-17 08:56 PM
724599, Doesn't matter much now, Nights Watch'll be joining Night King
Posted by icecold21, Tue Aug-29-17 09:25 PM
in the army of the dead.

It was very convenient tho how Bran mentioned Jon's parents to the one guy that could put two and two together, a guy he barely knows that just showed up out of nowhere, all the while leaving his fam in the dark, but whatever. It ain't that serious.
724608, Sam *did* help Bran in the past tho.
Posted by Frank Longo, Wed Aug-30-17 09:22 AM
Not a huge number of people rolling through Bran's life at this point who understand that he went north of the wall on this crazy quest.

>It was very convenient tho how Bran mentioned Jon's parents to
>the one guy that could put two and two together, a guy he
>barely knows that just showed up out of nowhere, all the while
>leaving his fam in the dark, but whatever. It ain't that
>serious.
724611, Bran doesn't barely know anyone...he knows everything now lol
Posted by gumz, Wed Aug-30-17 09:47 AM
724632, as a critic of the show's shitty writing: Sam is basically a maester
Posted by Rjcc, Thu Aug-31-17 03:29 AM
and more importantly, he's jon's best friend, which makes him even closer to jon than his family tbh, because none of them have spent any significant time with him as an adult.

in that respect it makes sense that he would bring it up to sam.

the coincidence of same being the only person w/ the info.....wellllllll

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at
724588, what happened to the sword Sam stole from his dad
Posted by josephmurf2384, Tue Aug-29-17 06:35 PM
I can't remember what happened to it.
724593, That was a fairly egregious misstep this season.
Posted by wallysmith, Tue Aug-29-17 08:40 PM
They made it a point last season to show him stealing the FAMILY SWORD and even addressed a similar storyline with the Mormonts' Longclaw.

You'd think Randyll Tarly would notice the FAMILY SWORD missing when going off to war.
724609, My general take on Late Season Missing Scenes in GoT is this:
Posted by Frank Longo, Wed Aug-30-17 09:27 AM
If it could've been explained in a 30 second scene and it ultimately doesn't impact the main narrative, then I don't really care that it was left on the cutting room floor.

Could they have shown a scene of Papa Tarly getting pissed and throwing a vase across the room in anger or something? Of course. But ultimately, Sam would still have the sword and they're not going to make Papa Tarly's quest to get a sword back a central plot point on screen for several episodes. So I'll let my imagination fill in Papa Tarly's anger and move on from there.

Obviously there are *more* of these scenes in the post-GRRM seasons-- but since my main beef with the early seasons was spending *too much* time dwelling on bullshit go-nowhere tangents, I don't mind their removal now. We knew that, regardless of how Papa Tarly reacted, Sam was keeping that sword as they need it for the Great War. Any time spent following that story would've been waste of production budget.
724622, I don't necessarily disagree with you...
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Aug-30-17 03:29 PM
... but the sword's context is greater than just that it was stolen. There's been scenes in basically every season that allude to some specific significance of a Valyrian sword: very few in existence, dragonfire and/or magic required to forge it, none have been made in any living person's memory and their effectiveness in fighting wights. We were given a cold opener one episode showing Ice (Ned's sword) being melted down to forge two new swords. And the doomed history of Valyria itself is referenced constantly (not just as the origins of the Targaryen family), along with seeing Tyrion's voyage into its smoky ruins.

Sure I agree the sword itself doesn't affect the main narrative, nor should it. My position alludes more to the significance the story has put on Valyria as a whole, with the different swords a major element of that. We don't need a scene of vases being broken, all we needed was an offhand remark between Randyll and his son about the missing sword in scenes that were going to happen anyway... instead we got "Dickon" jokes.

Trust me, I'm more than cognizant of understanding the need to balance the literature and the film, and I've defended the showrunners innumerable times over the years for necessary omissions. I get the desire to cut worthless scenes, I really do.

Thing is, Martin and the showrunners have invested a lot of time over the years in make sure the audience is fully aware of the significance of Valyrian swords... but omitting acknowledgement of Heartsbane's disappearance feels more like sloppiness to me, like the script supervisor forgot to watch last season.
724629, I think it'll play out like this:
Posted by Frank Longo, Thu Aug-31-17 12:41 AM
Sam: "Yo Jon, what up?"
Jon: "White walkers are coming, we need Valyrian steel"
Sam: "Hey, I stole this from my dad, will this help?"
Jon: "ummmmm yup"

And I'll be like "cool, we got another sword in the mix."

The showrunners have unquestionably made some dicey choices here and there... I just ultimately won't care as long as the big shit is right-- and I think they've gotten most of if not all of the big shit right. Maybe it's just cuz of the casting, maybe it's cuz the narrative has built so pleasingly to a conclusion that there's not much that would set me off at this point. I acknowledge that I'm just enjoying the Act 3 kicking through at this point to some degree... but Act 3s always speed up, always focus more on narrative than the previous two acts, etc. I'm just not really put off by anything they did this season.
724631, That's kinda missing my point.
Posted by wallysmith, Thu Aug-31-17 01:16 AM
The omission wasn't egregious because it seemed like a conscious decision to kill the storyline (a la Dorne), it was egregious because it felt like a continuity error.

An example would be the fantastic continuity displayed in the Great Hall: Sansa called out Littlefinger conspiring to kill Jon Arryn, the ownership of the dagger, his betrayal of Ned then his murder of Lysa. In that single scene we see reference to the pilot, two other episodes in Season 1, then a reference to Season 4.

Another great scene was the one between Theon and Jon; we knew that there was still unresolved tension between them for the sacking of Winterfell and the supposed killings of Bran and Rickon (and Theon's continued involvement with the Boltons). We got that scene even though Theon had a deeper relationship with Robb, not Jon.

Point is, despite questionable story decisions and Michael Bay writing, dedication to continuity has actually been mostly a strong point from the showrunners. Unfortunately, with Heartsbane it felt like a script mistake instead of a production decision.
724641, I don't see that as a "continuity problem" at all.
Posted by Frank Longo, Thu Aug-31-17 01:13 PM
The dagger was missing from the show too until someone busted it out and reminded us of its existence and where it came from. I think they can do the same with that sword. "It was here, now it's here." I don't see any continuity gaps there-- the timeline and the geography is all crystal clear.

Maybe there's more to the sword in the books, which I wouldn't know about, but seems to me like it's just another Valyrian steel sword the narrative needs for the Great War. We haven't had any subsequent conversations between Sam and his Tarly family, so no clue why it would've been brought up since on the show... unless they would've tried to do a subplot with Papa Tarly trying to get it back, which, as noted above, would've been a relatively meaningless tangent from the main narrative.

So I do think the writers chose to exorcise any further Tarly drama. Put the sword in Sam's hands-- good, now it's there, and it'll be there when he needs to unsheathe it in the Great War.
724645, The difference between the dagger and the sword...
Posted by wallysmith, Thu Aug-31-17 03:12 PM
is that with the dagger, there were numerous people that remained relevant to its existence throughout the seasons.

With the sword, the showrunners burned the only person in the show that would care that it's missing.

Here's Randyll's reaction at dinner when finding out Gilly is a wildling:

"See that sword? It's called Heartsbane. It's been in our family for 500 years. It's Valyrian steel. Only a handful of them left in the world. It's supposed to go to my firstborn son after I die. To him. He will *never* wield that sword."

https://youtu.be/UQPgfMbECzQ?t=303

You can feel the venom dripping in that scene. And even though this is the first time we're seeing Randyll Tarly face to face we've known about his disappointment in Sam since the very first time he met Jon. Randyll's huge shadow colors everything that Sam is, and in that scene we see just how much hate his father has for him.

Then in this season, we have several scenes with Randyll and Dickon, including one that may be a defining character moment for Daenerys. We received visceral proof last season of the broken relationship Randyll has with Sam yet not a single mention of Sam (who, as the eldest son, should be next to him in battle) nor his prized family heirloom? The fact that Randyll is actually on the battlefield (where, you know, he needs a sword) makes Heartsbane's omission even more jarring.

Again, I completely agree with you that Tarly family drama doesn't need to be extended anymore than is needed. Several months passed between when Sam took the sword and Randyll took the field. But that still doesn't reconcile the fact that, as a viewer, we're led to think that Randyll completely forgot about his 500-year family sword and completely forgot how much he hates his oldest son (who is the best friend of the main character). That glaring character flaw isn't by design, it's by error. And with Randyll dead, it's one they can never rectify.
724612, how does this matter more to you than the Arya/Sansa thing?
Posted by gumz, Wed Aug-30-17 09:49 AM
who cares? it was gone...he probably noticed it being gone and figured out that Sam took it. It wouldn't have changed anything
724625, It doesn't matter to me "more" than the Arya/Sansa arc...
Posted by wallysmith, Wed Aug-30-17 06:16 PM
Like I said in my other response, this omission felt less like a storytelling device and more a careless continuity oversight.

It was especially tangible because Longclaw *was* addressed between Jon Snow and Jorah Mormont (in the episode after some people complained about it). Granted, Jon is THE main character so his scenes have utmost importance.

But when one Valyrian sword is addressed, no one noticed that the other Valyrian sword they devoted production resources to last season was even mentioned? Maybe editing fucked up and cut out a line? Again, not asking for a whole big scene here. A simple line from Randyll like "I wish your thieving brother were here for this" before getting fried would have been perfect because it would have acknowledged the missing sword AND reinforced the bitter relationship between the estranged eldest son Samwell and his father.

edit: grammar
724621, ‘Game of Thrones’ Star Reveals Scene Cut From Season Finale (swipe)
Posted by j0510, Wed Aug-30-17 03:15 PM
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/game-of-thrones-season-finale-cut-scene-1202541941/

‘Game of Thrones’ Star Reveals Scene Cut From Season Finale
Daniel Holloway
AUGUST 29, 2017 | 02:33PM PT

No “Game of Thrones” character changed as much from Season 6 to 7 as Isaac Hempstead Wright’s Bran Stark. No longer struggling with the loss of the use of his legs or adjusting to his newfound mystical powers, Bran has embraced being the all-seeing, all-knowing Three-Eyed Raven — a job that leaves him pretty disinterested in what’s going on in his friends’ and family’s personal lives.

Wright spoke with Variety about Bran’s attitude, his revelation regarding Jon Snow’s parents, and the scene that was cut from Sunday’s season 7 finale.

The scene with Bran and Sam was weirdly touching. What was it like filming that?
It was really fun. One of the most annoying things was that it was so hot in that studio. But aside from that, once we mopped up all the sweat, it was a really, really touching, really cool scene. And I think it was cool for both of them because they’re two of these characters in “Game of Thrones” whose weapons really are their wits. And the way they do battle is through knowledge. So I think it was great to see those two together — especially since the last time we saw them together, they were headed in opposite directions. Sam was heading south and Bran was heading north.

What has it been like this season to share scenes with actors who you know well but haven’t acted with in years?
Really cool. It’s weird more than anything to actually see them in the context of a “Game of Thrones” set. I’m used to seeing most of them at events and press stuff. It’s like, “It’s weird seeing you in ‘Game of Thrones’ clothes rather than a pretty dress or a nice suit.” But I love the show as well, and it’s really cool getting to be in scenes with characters I love watching on screen. And obviously getting back with the Starks is such a big thing. We literally only ever had one scene together, with all three of us together onscreen, so it was almost like this was the first time working together, which is bizarre.

It’s clear after Sansa turns the tables on Littlefinger that she has had some sort of conversation with Bran, but we don’t get to see it. When did it take place?
We actually did a scene that clearly got cut, a short scene with Sansa where she knocks on Bran’s door and says, “I need your help,” or something along those lines. So basically, as far as I know, the story was that it suddenly occurred to Sansa that she had a huge CCTV department at her discretion and it might be a good idea to check with him first before she guts her own sister. So she goes to Bran, and Bran tells her everything she needs to know, and she’s like, “Oh, s—.”

Bran seems happy to see Sam and concerned about Jon. Is he going to start warming to other people again?
I don’t think so, really. I think that what’s happening there is that Bran is in many ways a bit bored at Winterfell. Can you imagine having someone so high-functioning that they have the history of the world in their head? He’s sitting there with all of this really great information, just waiting for the Great War to come about. He probably does really hard crossword puzzles. But when Sam comes with this really important piece of information that is actually going to change the fate of “Game of Thrones,” he’s actually like, “Oh, this is really interesting. This is actually something that it appears I need to do.” It’s a destiny Bran didn’t realize he had. All he’s been concerned about is the Night King and the White Walkers.

Why did he wait until now to tell anyone that Jon is Lyanna and Rhaegar’s son?
To be honest I think until this time Bran has been so focused on the White Walkers that that hasn’t really mattered. Jon was what Bran thought was Rhaegar’s illegitimate child. That doesn’t have that much impact in the face of the swirling chaos that is about to descend on Westeros. Then Sam comes to Bran and it becomes clear that this is actually really important. That is why Bran gets a bit more animated in that scene.

Will Bran be the one to break the news to Jon about his parents?
I don’t know. I don’t know that Bran has quite got the charisma anymore. I think that would be a bit of a disappointing reveal for Bran to go, “Hi, Jon. You’re the heir to the Iron Throne and I’m back in Winterfell and I know everything.” I think it would be a bit better if Sam did it. Bran can do the finding out and Sam can do the talking.

How do you think the other Stark kids will take the news about Jon’s parentage?
In terms of their bond together, I think it will have absolutely no impact. The big question now is how it will go between Jon and Daenerys. I can’t imagine she’ll be pleased.
724640, It was good that they left that out
Posted by BigWorm, Thu Aug-31-17 12:41 PM
I wasn't thrilled with the Arya/Littlefinger/Sansa subplot, but I'm glad it played out the way it did.

With the season hinting that Sansa had grown a darker side and envy Cersei to the point of becoming power hungry, you had to wonder if she really was going to turn on Arya.

If they had included the scene with Bran then there would have been nothing surprising about Littlefigner's fate.

724642, I'm really glad they didn't do the Arya/Sansa stuff that way.
Posted by Frank Longo, Thu Aug-31-17 01:15 PM
I enjoyed the suspense of not knowing when the inevitable turn would hit.
724647, i'm glad to have this confirmed after the fact
Posted by Mynoriti, Thu Aug-31-17 03:25 PM
the scene would have ruined the payoff, but I'm happy it's something that makes sense.