At this point, given how reactionary Warner Bros. has been concerning its DC comics films, I think it's safe to say that the DCEU may be in trouble. Batman v. Superman did not make its money back. Green Lantern, a core member of the Justice League, has been basically disavowed due to that film flopping. Suicide Squad set the August record but was burnt critically.

With Wonder Woman and Justice League (and presumably Batman)on the way, what should WB do to fix the DCEU. At this point, taking the reins away from Zack Snyder no longer seems like the thing to do but only the first thing to do.

What do you think should be done to alter the course the DCEU. What stories/characters do you feel should be introduced. IMHO, it's too late to start over so....

What would you do?
---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

1. Trust the talent.
2. Take your goddamn time.

At this point, they have the tools in place to fix things. Multiple solo movies on the way. Good filmmakers (Jenkins, Famuyiwa, Wan, Affleck). Well cast leads. They even have a Justice League movie coming that doesn't have Superman in it, which, considering how they've depicted him to date, is almost certainly a good thing for the time being.

WB hired David Ayer to do Suicide Squad his way, and the result is pretty clearly anything but. It's one thing if your studio interference generally results in terrific results-- but when the last two movies are absolute editing room clusterfucks with shattered story arcs and a fuckton of bloat, then you're clearly not trusting the talent. I'm not a Snyder guy, but let the filmmakers have their way. Let Jenkins make Wonder Woman her way. Let Wan do Aquaman hands free. Etc. The suits need to say to each other at this point, "We are making things worse. It's failing with our hands so deeply in the mix. Let's try the other way." (I'm afraid the opening weekend of Suicide Squad will empower them... but only time will tell.)

My only other change would be to slow down even more. Let the Flash *and* Aquaman solo movies drop before Justice League drops. Take a page out of Marvel's playbook. Slow the fuck down. Three new major characters per movie is an absolute maximum-- because even now, the Marvel films are starting to spread mighty thin. The Batman Arkham melee movie is a BAD FUCKING IDEA. Make a Batman movie with ONE FUCKING VILLAIN for a change. Check out how Ant-Man was a terrific change of scale for Marvel (and really, so was Civil War too, for the most part). Not everything needs to be an end-of-world event with dozens of characters. Slow. The fuck. Down.

Outside of that? I really wouldn't change a thing that's currently in place. I think it'd be *worse* to reboot Joker or Superman again, despite both missing pretty badly at present imo. Besides, I think Cavill has what it takes, he just desperately needs good material. They're already phasing out Snyder to some extent, bringing in good people, making solo films, etc. Just trust the talent and keep your build nice and slow.

Green Arrow convicted for a crime he didn't commit. Gets stuck in supermax with supervillains; has to fight his way to survive/try to escape.

You intro Green Arrow and a nice way to intro villains for future films. To draw audiences, you could use some of Batman's villains.

they seem to be too anxious...need to chill and let their talent do what they do and slowly build the universe up...that'll give them time to react to what does and doesn't work.

They should have brought in the actors from Flash and Green Arrow to play the parts. The backstory is already there (so no need for the first movie to be an origin story) and the fanbase is solid.

Keep Zack Snyder away from everything.

Bring in decent writers that can stay true to the source material. Batman shouldn't be shooting people, Superman should think about saving lives before blowing up buildings.

But honestly since they already cast a new Flash and probably won't bring in Green Arrow at all, none of it matters. I doubt the DC movies will come anywhere near the success of the Marvel films. I think maaaaaybe the Batman film will work if they leave Affleck alone and let him make his movie. He's a solid director. But no way the Justice League stuff will work. They're rushing through it. Marvel took its time with the universe leading up to avengers. Then it was a box office smash every year.

I've been as critical of their comics as anyone over the last ten years, but so far Rebirth has great writers writing in a far more optimistic tone. There's some gold to mine here. In particular, it kind of feels like Greg Rucka may be writing the definitive Wonder Woman story right now, and the Superman stories, while only pretty good, hit exactly the right approach for the character.

primarily because I don't want to support DC's constant retconning. The guy at the comic store has given me good reviews but I'm still like nah....maybe I'll look at Batman.

I still ride Vertigo when I can but the core DC books I still pass.
---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

It feels like them saying, wow, the nu 52 was real wack and we're sorry, heres the real characters back. Much more of the soft reboot thing marvel does all the time.

I'm not sure I would do the Arkham one with ALL of the villains but I'd go:

1. Se7en rip-off featuring The Riddler.

2. Arlington Road rip-off which leads to Batman being implicated. (Intro Joker, Catwoman)

3a. Treasure of Sierra Madre rip-off on steroids with Joker, Cat-Woman, Riddler, Penguin perhaps?

3b. Batman then tries to prove his innocence while being hunted down by Justice League or Suicide Squad (aka Civil War rip-off).

4. Blade 2 rip-off as a plan to end the world is uncovered; government already under enemy control; Batman and villains team up. Darkseid unveiled.

5. Justice League vs. Darkseid.

I'd also make the early films no more than two hours long.

But my real hope has always been that they'd do basically a cinematic miniseries. Twelve 90-120 minute films, one a month, wrapping the story at the end of the year.

...focus on telling more coherent stories with it.

They took the entirely wrong message from BvS, listening to the tone-bots instead of the people telling them their movie was a mess. They fucked up Suicide Squad trying to be GOTG, instead of the dark action movie it originally was.

People will ride with your serious superhero movies if your serious superhero movies are good. Let the talent cook.

And with that has to come the acceptance that they won't do Marvel numbers. Adjust budgets and expectations to suit.

They fucked up Suicide Squad trying to be GOTG,
>instead of the dark action movie it originally was.

They're gonna look at the first weekend box office and say, "See? It worked! We suits know best!"

You make a good point about the budgets, too. Don't make it a game of oneupsmanship. It's a pointless endeavor against a Disney-owned commodity.

I agreed with everything you said in my post, basically-- they don't need a massive change, nor should they try to make one. Take their time, find good talent, let the talent work hands off. A couple of good movies in a row would fix all that ails them.

and fire them all anyway.


Get folks from the animation side.

Put everything on the shelf until Justice League is on track.

I'm sure if he has one, his non-compete clause should be up soon. While you're at it, turn a fucking light on and drop the desaturation. Oh, and NO MORE RAIN.

Jokes aside here's some ideas that could help. One, WB.... trust your creators. Stop trying to get involved. Two, read a comic book. And don't be afraid of it. Three. Two words. Grant Morrison. Give him one character and let him let his freak flag fly.

There's a few things.

That sounds awful, nobody knows who that is and will think of the 70s rock band. Everyone has been wanting Darkseid. Seems like another huge mistake in a list of mistakes.

Steppenwolf, Darkseid - doesn't really matter. Nobody knows them the same way most people didn't know who the heck Thanos was. Hell, most still barely know who he is.

I'd rather see them build up to that. Have some films with Lex and Joker and the Legion of Doom and then move to the guys like Darkseid. Maybe even have a Blade 2/X2 team up of heroes and villains.

The best comic book movies are love letters to their main characters. Snyder's two times with Superman feels like a 4.5 criticism about how boring he is as a character and how destructive Superman would be in the "real world".

It wasn't the best first step for a cinematic universe.

Are they making Blockbuster popcorn action movies, or are they leveraging the fact that the characters are already known quantities and trying to put what people know on screen?

IMHO that is their biggest problem, trying to serve too many masters

if it's just a money thing, go for bombast and records

if you want to build a fanbase then some of this b-movie stuff gotta go

Specifically, go forward from JL and JLU, and keep the voice talents therein. I'll forgive most sins of the DCEU to hear Conroy, Hamill, and Mr. Crabbs in their animated roles on the big screen

...I would hope not. They need a top down regime change and to be taken over by people who love the properties, not people who want to deconstruct them. I feel like Marvel's success is just basically that they like their characters and change very little with them. I don't need a mopey ass Superman. Ever.

Just saw BAD BLOOD. Shit was legit.

There's so much that can be done with these characters when they are in the hands of creatives who truly understand the character. I feel that the success of the Nolan films is really centered around the fact those characters met and exceeded expectations in regards to their portrayal. That character problem has always been my issue with Superman films (excluding the OG). It feels like no one truly gets Superman as a character or as an idea. And the same would go for Lex Luthor. It still bothers me that live-action Lex doesn't hold a candle to the animated version.

Honestly, I'd love to see a shift on the writing end too. A lot of these films don't connect because they are flat-out terrible plots at the outset. No one can tell me that the plot to Suicide Squad makes sense or is good....because it isn't.


---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

hahaha.

Because that would be a nice change.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

a lot of Superman stories have the bulk of the action happening in the day. And Metropolis is typically lit up all the time.

---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

Study the characters and find a writer and director that understand the character and want to develop that character purposefully and methodically.

I mean dude has had success with the dc comic tv series , he actually has me caring about shows on the CW!!...lol

ALSO, MAKE Christopher Nolan give them feedback and help..lol

He's working on a Booster Gold movie.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/greg-berlanti-confirms-booster-gold-movie-may-direct

I really don't understand the love people have for those horrible shows.

I mean, they're fine for what they are, I guess. But yeah, zero interest in seeing a Berlanti-ing of the Cinematic Universe.

Arrow was great it's first season and good it's 2nd. Ever since it's been trash.

The Flash had a great first season and a super mediocre second season.

Supergirl had a great pilot and a dumb, boring, middling first season.

Legends of Tomorrow had an okay first season with major, major problems.

it would have been a no brainer to build on the existing characters and stories from the TV shows. the minute they announced a different casting of Flash I knew they were in trouble. honestly you could argue that Arrow (and partly Flash) going off the rails had more to do with them not being able to use the Suicide Squad on TV which could have led to some really great stories. even with all those attempts to bring the TV side down, they STILL have a very loyal following. the four night crossover on TV this season is going to be so much better than anything they're going to be making in the movies (with the exception of WW which looks amazing).

Arrow season 4 was Bvs levels bad.

Flash has a villain problem, Season 2 seemed like a remake of Season 1.

even with that, they still have a loyal following. Flash having a villain problem is not the problem of the show to be honest. he's got a villain problem period. Flash is generally cool enough though to overcome his weak rogues gallery.

But everyone else probably not.

Had Flash Season 2 held off on Zoom and did Gorilla Grodd who had a great run in trying to hack into the Speed Force it would've made the show much better along with a shortened season.

Shit all these shows would benefit from a 13 episode order.

Last season of Arrow averaged around 2.5 million viewers. Supergirl got dumped by CBS to CW after getting over 7 million viewers. Agents of SHIELD squeaks by with 3.5 million.

The CW shows really aren't big enough to build a summer blockbuster around. And lord knows how the Flashpoint episodes of Flash would mess with things (or why Flash was ignoring the mayhem that was going down during Man of Steel when he still was going back in time sans time ghosts (or whatever those things were.)

It was shitty how they handled the announcement and I wouldn't be surprised if Gustin is better than Ezra Miller, although I'm a fan of his, but having two separate universes for TV and film isn't the problem here.

And, honestly, there aren't many episodes of Arrow or Flash that wouldn't come off as hokey as shit and get bitched about if they were feature films.

Arrow clearly fell off from what it started out being. I'm saying the characters they have built have enough of a following that they could have been included in the movies. I'm not saying there should have been Flash or Arrow standalone movies built solely around them, but they could have been included. Flash doesn't even need his own movie imo. he could have appeared in the Justice League and went back to TV afterwards.

>The CW shows really aren't big enough to build a summer
>blockbuster around.

I kinda disagree with this point. Because I don't know how many conventions you've been to, but these dudes and dudettes on these shows (even Tommy fucking Merlyn) do numbers! Hell, Heroes and Villains is essentially a CW Fanfest. I think that, plus the DCU property, had you put Amell or Gustin in with Affleck, it'd be more beneficial than not. It's not like Ezra Miller is bringing asses in.

Hell, SERENITY worked when it got to DVD/home sales. (No, I'm not comparing Firefly to the DCU in terms of weight of the property, but still)

>And, honestly, there aren't many episodes of Arrow or Flash
>that wouldn't come off as hokey as shit and get bitched about
>if they were feature films.

Yeah, but a movie would be much more focused and not need to be spread thin for 22 hours. Also, a budget would be a huge help.

This immediately reminded me of the "Blizzard has a huge following; Warcraft will do numbers in the US."

Conventions often have relatively big audiences for cult classics and shows that couldn't get enough ratings to stay on the air. Relatively being the key word. Maybe casting the CW people will bring in some people but odds are those are the people who would be showing up anyway. And I could see WB thinking that the CW brand name hurts the films more than the actors would help it.

Also, the ratings for both shows have been declining so there's an argument to be made to not tie your billion dollar movie franchise to shows with diminishing returns.

Finally, while I'm a fan of Grant Gustin, I think they definitely could find a better actors/bigger name for The Green Arrow, if they ever go with that character.

>This immediately reminded me of the "Blizzard has a huge
>following; Warcraft will do numbers in the US."

Fair enough, but DC characters have more of a built in equity than Warcraft.

>Finally, while I'm a fan of Grant Gustin, I think they
>definitely could find a better actors/bigger name for The
>Green Arrow, if they ever go with that character.

See that's weird. I think Green Arrow would work better than the Flash as a character that doesn't need a name attached to it. Gustin not being the movie Flash didn't bother me until Miller was cast because I originally thought they were courting a bigger name. Whereas Amell has a blockbuster lead under his belt at this point, so I figured he'd be less a stretch.

Shit tanked. 85 million domestically on a 135 million production budget. $110 million less than it's predecessor. I'd wager most people outside of the Arrow/DC fanbase know who he is.

And in terms of characters, The Flash is definitely a bigger name than the Green Arrow.

the suggestions here are all over the place. y'all don't even know what y'all want from these movies.

the DCEU did fine so far. bvs is still the #1 blu ray/dvd after 1 month and suicide squad is making an impressive amount of money without a China release.

The cast is already stellar, they just need to tighten up the scripts and don't rush storylines anymore.

they'll be alright.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at