Quite possible this might get locked, BUT....

Here's a thread where you can put spoilers and your own reviews (that will contain spoilers) for The Force Awakens.

Let's not spoil any other threads - people will be bummed.

Song dedication for my man: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZqM5wtJ_2c

5 or 7 on 1-10 scale?

PERFECT SCORE

LOL

dude is literally the impetus for most of the MAJOR plot points in the movie
and a trained stormtrooper
clearly down to fight if need be
So why the stumblin bumblin comic relief schtick?

Meh.

Trust Fund Vader was a respectable villain
Snope is a goofy name
I liked the film overall, tho

Trust Fund Vader...worst Sith...ever.


HOW TO BE A JEDI...in three easy lessons. Master the force via our special program and control mind and matter in MINUTES!

I hope Snoke is just as tall in person

I hope Snope isn't a CGI Harry Potter looking thing any more.

...being that he's not a clone, i guess he doesn't have to be portrayed like that ...i still think he ends up a jedi by the 3rd installment

i started to groan at his forced comic relief.

like, between solo and finn trading barbs, i thought i was watching an advertised comedy.

also, did abrams direct boyega to over-act, or is that just what he does?

Young Action Hero Denzel.

He ain't gotta be *that*, but he was waaaaay to Cuba Gooding Jr in this joint

jar jar binks as a storm troopper

and thought the actor did great. shrug

That kid gonna be a star.

Met Boyega back in his Attack of the Block days & dude was hella cool

it gives him space to be Han Solo-ish without being Solo 2.0

like, he saved Poe because poe could get him out.

everything with Rey is...obvious reasons, at each level.

I like him.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

He not all sleek and purposeful

Dude is all confused and shit

He acts the part

Rey is basically the only person in the world who was
ever nice to him, hence the affinity

That's how young niggas act

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

First of all the movie was awesome. Only drawback I can find is this is pretty much Ep 4 redone for the modern generation. But it was so well done Im not even mad. Now my question....

I know from the books that they had twins, a boy & a girl. So going in I assumed Kylo was the son and the chick was his twin sister. But with Han & especially Leia not recognizing her or even acknowledging there was another kid.... is this a new take on the story? Could she be Luke's daughter? Or are they just saving the whole "I am your brother" reveal for Episode 8?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-12-15/why-disney-blew-up-more-than-30-years-of-star-wars-canon

I just think they were holding back and not telling her. When Leia sees her and hugs her just got that feeling. And Im thinking maybe a younger sister rather than twin this time but don't know.. It just seems more likely they will go into her finding out he's her brother eventually and having to try to turn him back.

I could see with him going dark, Luke disappearing, and Han running off, Leia thinking its best to send her off like Obi did with Luke.

She's Kylo Ben's younger sis. She also was being trained. Bitch Boy Ben cuts down the Jedi (probably on Snoke's orders), but can't bring himself to chop his sister. So, knowing he can't say he left her alive, he drops her on Jakku to work knowing she won't be able to get off world. Leia and Han think she was slaughtered as well which is why they don't recognize her as their daughter. But they both seemed to sense "something" with her it seemed to me.

This theory came to me from Kylo's reaction when he was told the traitor Stormtrooper and the droid were assisted by "...a girl" and her lightsaber vision.

I think she has to be Luke's kid. Him and the mother get separated for whatever reason, the mother gets taken, and she gets sold into slavery on Jakku.

>She's Kylo Ben's younger sis. She also was being trained.
>Bitch Boy Ben cuts down the Jedi (probably on Snoke's orders),
>but can't bring himself to chop his sister. So, knowing he
>can't say he left her alive, he drops her on Jakku to work
>knowing she won't be able to get off world. Leia and Han think
>she was slaughtered as well which is why they don't recognize
>her as their daughter. But they both seemed to sense
>"something" with her it seemed to me.

Eh, problem with that is that they seem to be roughly the same, if not similar ages. So she'd remember more about her brother or her family if this was so. It would make Kylo's "You see Han Solo as the father you never had..." speech a little superfluous.

even if they thought their daughter was dead, it seems ridiculous to me that they would meet her and not recognize her or even specifically mark it as something later on.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

i just knew they were twins. then i was kindas shocked when they didn't acknowledge it. they threw out all that stuff from the novels which is kind of a shame. i would have loved to have seen Admiral Thrawn in the movies.

...only thing that bothered me was when R2 came back online, as if he's force sensitive or something ...he's been sad since Luke bounced but knows now it's time to go get him?

Probably activated by Luke who felt it was time.

...I'm also thinking how Kylo is trying to talk to his grandpa in that scene ..even if he could speak to him, Anikin's spirt is going to tell him to stop being a bad ass and go to the light, right???


..and is Luke chilling on that planet chopping it up all day with Obi Won, Yoda & Qui-Gon???

Yeah, Kylo is most likely just giving himself a pep talk. If Anakin's force ghost was able to communicate with him it surely wouldn't be encouraging him to the dark side.

If I remember correctly (I probably don't) force ghosts couldn't stick around indefinitely, Obi wan was only able to hold on for about 10 years, someone more powerful like Yoda and Anakin could probably stick around longer. In the now non canon EU, Luke was able to stick around for several decades but even he eventually couldn't maintain it.

Point of all that, I don't think Luke is still playing Jenga with Yoda and Obi-Wan. Of course none of that stuff is canon anymore so who knows how they'll go with it.

because she is his daughter.

you're rating jedi ahead of a new hope or empire?

for me, it's empire, a new hope, jedi/FA ... *LONG PAUSE* ... prequels.

Empire
New Hope
This one
Jedi



All Shit.

think they could have skipped the whole new Death Star angle again. I was fine with a lot of the similarities, events that happen very close to events that happen in the OGs, old lines being said, etc but a 3rd movie now on a device that blows up planets, de-activate the shields and find a weak spot... meh Wish would just stuck with the search and other plot points and left that out.

Still I had a great time and a grin on my face the entire time.

It's a better franchise set-up than it is a movie. The performances and characters are so strong that they carry the pretty standard (some may say too familiar, and I may not disagree) story.

Better than the prequels, but that's not saying much-- the prequels had no interesting characters whatsoever. Not convinced this movie reaches some of the action heights from the prequels though-- but I'd rather have characters I care about. Rey, Finn, and Kylo all absolutely rule.

People with super-deep nostalgia for the original series will love it, I'm sure. I'm not terribly passionate about the franchise, so I found it to be a pleasant, earnest diversion.

The most exciting thing to me are the racial and gender dynamics really-- seeing black and Hispanic heroes, seeing women who actively do the rescuing. Hopefully this encourages more big franchises to do the same.

>It's a better franchise set-up than it is a movie.

This.

characters propelled it and the casting was nearly perfect*. necessary step forward to see female and black leads after the whitewashed (as with most things beloved by nerds) heydays.

first 45 minutes are *fantastic*, the middle part is solid, and the end drags because it's telegraphed (the Death...Planet! with the nearly same weakness it had 40 years ago!). overall enjoyable though.

*except for Adam Driver. Kylo Ren is an interesting character, but Driver is completely ill-suited for the role (sans mask).

It did look great (a return to more practical effects was welcome after the bluescreen orgy that the prequels were) but somehow I still came away underwhelmed. I don't think it was bad by any means. But there was probably too much Solo and they wheeled out the planet destroying weapon again (though this time it's a death planet instead of death star. It still goes down the same. You'd think somebody would have figured out how to defend that by now).

Trust Fund Vader. I'm stealing that one. Why the hell did he have to keep taking off the mask? And what's with the temper tantrums?

Definitely felt like a New Hope remix. Something for the new fans, maybe too much for the old fans, but not quite a perfect mashup for both. It does set up things for the next one, so I'll see where it goes

The wide shots were my favorite part hands down....that was the appeal of seeing it in a theater

the most impressive 3D i have seen. saw it at Air and Space IMAX and it looked absolutely gorgeous. Characters worked well enough. I would have enjoyed Kylo Ren being someone not Han's and Leia's son but overall i thought it was very good.

Pretty much everything I love flows from my love of the original trilogy, and this didn't disappoint.

Great action and great continuation of the world creation. I did like that they just through the audience into the new state of affairs, with only the minimal explanation of stuff in the opening crawl. Finn, Rey, and Kylo were all great characters. Good intro to Poe, Phasma, and General Hux (Gleason did a solid job at channelin Tarkin). Happy as Hell to see Han and Chewie get their shine. Best action sequence was the first Falcon chase. Followed by the lightsaber fight in the forest.

Also great was how they mixed the practical effects with the new digital technology. Looked pretty damn seamless in most cases.

Okay, now a for a few things, I had... minor issues with. They've been covered by other above, but I'll say them again anyway. First, they really didn't give Oscar Isaac that much to do, and as a result, not that much reason to care about him. And as a result, I really didn't feel much about his mission to blow this version of the Death Star. There's an interesting character there, but I wanted more. The same went for Christie and Gleason on the First Order side. I imagine they're going to flesh them out in the sequels.

Second issue was that it really was just about the exact same film as A New Hope. Just about all the same story beats and everything. Hey, I get it, the first one worked for a reason, so there's something to be said for following that template to introduce a new generation to this stuff. But it's part of the reason why I didn't feel much about this new version of the Death Star, although I will admit a Death Planet that create energy by destroying stars in pretty cool. But then the X-Wings fighting to blow the thing up was fairly lackluster. Like, there was very little of the tension that was in the same sequence in A New Hope.

But I did enjoy it and will be seeing it again. A few times. I've heard there's a theater in San Jose where they're showing it in 70mm (the only place west of Iowa where they're doing it), so I'm going to find a way to check it out. If nothing else, I went to catch it in my favorite movie house in Oakland, rather than a multiplex (where I saw it last night).

One more note that's neither negative or positive: Watching this made me feel really old. Or, more specifically, seeing Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, and Mark Hamil in this film made me feel really old. These are literally the first heroes of my youth, and seeing them hobble around the screen, after years of hard living, was... something else.

The family tree was confusing me too for bit but yall did a good job of breakin it down here...kudos

I think Rey is Luke's daughter now too

Best Harrison Ford performance in a looooong time. I had a feeling he'd eat it but it still hurt my inner child when he ate it.

The entire cast is great. There's some lazy storytelling in how they set up the finale but I never lost interest or looked at my watch.

he seemed pretty garden variety in the first act and most of the second.

oh yay, a black mask, black hood and altered voice. how evil.

but his mask-less interrogation scene with rey really exposed him for to a petulant, insecure little sith. he couldn't break her and even cried. cried!

then killing his father in such a fucked up way (the whole theater cringed as solo's lifeless corpse fell into the abyss) really put him over the top.

so it's basically ren vs. luke in the episode VIII duel, right?

(also, rey lightweight entertained the dark side for a hot second there. something to keep on eye on.)

coming

>
>then killing his father in such a fucked up way (the whole
>theater cringed as solo's lifeless corpse fell into the abyss)
>really put him over the top.
>

again, it's how he went out. (kinda felt like a motif of cloud city and luke's fall btw)

solo inherently dying was telegraphed when ren played proverbial possum then wouldn't let go of the lightsaber.

There were enough other unpredictable moments so I didn't mind too much

>again, it's how he went out. (kinda felt like a motif of
>cloud city and luke's fall btw)
>
>solo inherently dying was telegraphed when ren played
>proverbial possum then wouldn't let go of the lightsaber.
>
>

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

visually it was great and i loved the family dynamic running thru out (i'm thinking that rey will indeed end up being revealed as Luke's daughter and Kylo's first cousin and not Kylo's sister)

but the rehash of basically the same exact plot of new hope was just too on the nose for me. It all comes down to my expectations, i was looking for this to be a new chapter to an epic not a redo/reboot of a chapter that already occured

i mean the plot and details were exactly the same just different characters in the slots

orphan with hidden abilities on dusty sand planet discovers droid with life saving info stored on it and decides to help get that info into the right hands

then they encounter an old timer who knows the back story that can help them with their quest (obi won in 4 and han in 7).

then its the resistance (which looks exactly like the rebel alliance, which correct me if im wrong won the war and re-established the republic but are now inexplicably a separate entity from the republic....:-/) verses the remnants of the empire (now the first order i didnt mind because that make sense that that side wouldnt be comletely wiped out)

then the empire/first order has this planet busting weapon that just has one weak spot that needs xwing pilots to destroy

a lot of sneaking around on an empire/first order vessel evading storm troopers

and a final death of the older timer as his loved ones look on (again obi in 4 and han in 7, and like everyone didnt see han's death the second he stepped on that bridge)

I mean they even had ANOTHER FUCKING TRENCH....i was waiting for one of the pilots to say "stay on target, stay on target"

the one unique character, the reformed storm trooper was too goofy scary for my liking, i wouldnt him to be a bad ass who had done terrible things and just reached his breaking point instead of someone who just wanted to run away

i wont say this movie was horrible but it was a big let down, i wanted to be pulled into a new plot and i wasnt

my fav part was the fight between kylo and rey and the family tree elements

otherwise meh

My thoughts almost exactly...wanted so much more...

JJ needs to fix some stuff with the "oh hell no" crap with that guy; you can be comic relief and romantic bad-ass without having to be nearly slap-stick, bumbling idiot (SEE HERE THE CHARACTER THAT HE'S REPLACING, MORE OR LESS). And he turned heel to run away so quickly for what appeared to be little to no reason. He knew what he was getting into up until when? I can't recall what turned him from trying to get BB8 back to running scared dude.

Odd complaint, maybe, but I wanted more info about Poe. He's the best pilot, he somehow got home, he and Finn are best buddies now (apparently), he's the master of BB8 and he was the ultimate hero/death-blow deliverer at the end...is he just Wedge 2.0 or is he actually a character?

The alien things that Han was smuggling seemed awfully too MIB-ish, and the CGI of Slope or whatever was difficult to get behind too.


All that said, highly enjoyable and the plot and 90% of the writing felt really at home with the originals while being relevant to today.

Side note: some dude that hadn't seen it yet was trying to tell me the next one is going to be all about Han. Took everything in my power not to ruin his day.

>JJ needs to fix some stuff with the "oh hell no" crap with
>that guy

Quick note: it's not going to be J.J. anymore after this film. He was brought on for one-shot deal. Rian Johnson (Looper, Brick) is writing the next two movies (and directing episode VIII)

>Odd complaint, maybe, but I wanted more info about Poe. He's
>the best pilot, he somehow got home, he and Finn are best
>buddies now (apparently), he's the master of BB8 and he was
>the ultimate hero/death-blow deliverer at the end...is he just
>Wedge 2.0 or is he actually a character?

I definitely agree here. He was talked-up as one of the three stars of the new trilogy, but had very little to work with. Seems like they want him to be a combination of Han and Luke, which would make him the second Han and Luke combo in the film. Hell, actually all three of them. Regardless, I imagine he gets developed more in the next movie.

And I was really happy they didn't take Brienne of Tarth's mask off for some "see, SEE?" pop-culture nod thing. I just knew without knowing that was her.

Was that yoda like female in the bar, until after the film was over

Maybe they just wanted to bring Han in earlier.

Instead of having the droids play the message (which would just look like a map and not seem that big) we need someone to explain what it is and give Finn a reason to team with Rey. And then, because we don't have a fighter pilot, we need to bring him back so we can have someone we care about bombing the Death Star Planet.

In fact, he was supposed to die in that opening scene.

http://www.gq.com/story/star-wars-the-force-awakens-character-death

I loved the familiarity of the characters and scenes.

Boyega was great in it. I think that dude is gonna be a star.

boyega's performance was dope (reminded me of young denzel in certain scenes) and he had some of the best dialogue in the picture.

smh @ ppl being mad that he was funny.

The funny parts were good. I liked that he wasn't a one dimensional hero. He did heroic shit, but was also on some I'm getting the fuck outta here.

Plus trying to holler at the chick.

Man he was my favorite character in the whole flick.

Other than Han

Everyone is full cornball Sci-Fi shit (which is fine)

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Because Kylo Ren's gonna turn good.
The bad guys in this one are the underlings. We haven't even seen the big bad yet...so it's like the big bad is a phantom menace...

Non 3D tho. I hate 3D its so useless, hurts the eyes and its just never good

I love the originals but this was done way better overall, obviously because of how technology is today it was easier for them to pull off. I think too many people will hold on to their nostalgic feelings and rank it under 4-5-6 but its better IMO. I get history trumps reality but the reality is...its just done better. Theres very few problems with this one, even less than the original. I dont' mind the similarities to 4 because this is an introduction and passing the torch moment for the franchise to get rid of most of the original cast and have it focused around these new ones so its great that they lead with this storyline.

Rey used the force to get the saber. gat damn.

A worthy entry

First - Arclight fucked up the lens so the aspect ration wasn't quite right - but I let it go. (I did email them after, maybe they comp some passes so I can see it projected correctly.)

The from the ground view of Poe Dameron's rampage on the First Order's aircraft and ground troops was greta to see. We'd never gotten that type of view before.

I like Rey and Finn a lot.

People saying "Why is Finn such a mess and yelling and nervous?" I think it's because he panicked and had to get away - he's REACTING to his environment and not using his head much.

When the Tie Fighter was swallowed by the sands - I liked that.

Lie's theme playing as Leia hugs Rey - that was great too.

Rey's accurate vision of the future shows she might be more powerful than Luke was.

I only wish Han wouldn't have gone out like that. I know Harrison Ford must have demanded it - but the second he said his son's name I knew he was dead.

I'll definitely end up seeing at least 1 more time in the theatre.

Dude was following orders his entire life. Not surprising that he'd be nervous and out of his depth when entering the real world for the first time. I was hoping that there'd be a bad aim joke in there (maybe Omar Isaac's character has to tell him to use the targeting and not shoot blindly or something).

There might have been one or two too many bumbling Finn jokes but it didn't cross the line for me. (And all of his stuff with BB8 was great. Maybe one of my favorite parts in the movie.)

1) it better start to diverge from the original trilogy in episode 8. Stuff is just way too similar

2) there better be a damn good reason why Luke's Jedi School 1.0 failed. If it's because Snyde is actually Palpatine' s boss, fine, I can get down with that. But if they make Luke into yoda 2.0, just chillin and being a sad failure on a deserted island, I will be sooooo mad.

>1) it better start to diverge from the original trilogy in
>episode 8. Stuff is just way too similar
>
The plot was completely unoriginal. Are y'all just not wanting to admit to urselves that it was a bit of a let down.


Star Trek reboot>>>>>>>>>>>episode 7

I mostly agree with Longo. It's great for setting up the franchise, the actions sequences were tight, and they managed the first part of the transition to the new generation pretty well. But as a Star Wars obsessive, I can still recognize the plot holes and worry about where we're headed

Or laying the table for episodes 8 and 9. This a well established franchise at the back end. Introduce the new characters and a new purpose/goal for them (which they kinda did with the goal of bringing Luke back into the fold) but don't just reimagine the plot of an earlier franchise episode

It's effective enough, but nothing special. There have been multiple action movies in 2015 alone with better action.

Abrams is waaaaaay way better at character, which makes this movie far more enjoyable in general than the prequels, but nothing in this approaches the quality of the action in the prequels except *maybe* the final light saber battle... but even then, that battle only really has weight due to character, not because it's especially brilliantly shot. That light saber battle, in terms of quality, obviously doesn't sniff either the Darth Maul light saber fight or the Yoda light saber fight, just off the top of my head.

Lucas was absolutely terrible at character and story, but his action, just from a technical perspective, is pretty top-notch. I did sort of miss that here-- Star Wars has been known for having some epic action, and this action was all mostly workmanlike (and there was that awful action sequence with the CGI octopi... ugh).

They make you feel like you're there and they mean something because you're invested in the story. The prequels just had technical masturbation.

much more enjoyable. Liked both. but SW was just too much of a reboot with out being called a reboot

>>1) it better start to diverge from the original trilogy in
>>episode 8. Stuff is just way too similar
>>
>The plot was completely unoriginal. Are y'all just not wanting
>to admit to urselves that it was a bit of a let down.
>
>
>Star Trek reboot>>>>>>>>>>>episode 7

>much more enjoyable. Liked both. but SW was just too much of
>a reboot with out being called a reboot
>
>>>1) it better start to diverge from the original trilogy in
>>>episode 8. Stuff is just way too similar
>>>
>>
>

So he made a Star Wars the way everyone loved Star Wars
and cats hate on that too

LOL

No way to win

nm

I can understand why they had to make ST an action film, and understand why a number of fans hated JJ because of it. With SW I can see why they chose the 'safe' path and made it a rehash of New Hope, as it gives a new generation a start point much like their parents, takes a big swig of nostalgia juice for those old enough to remember the original trilogy, and does its damnedest to undo make you forget the bad taste of the prequels. Mind you, it doesn't excuse the lightweight story, but it explains the direction it took

This was obviously a table setter going in but the writing felt very empty in regard to the three main characters, particularly Rey since she's clearly the centerpiece.

It's clear this was approached with a loving hand with heavy nods toward ANH, but it was too heavy if you ask me. I'm cool with getting a sense of history repeating itself but they lined up too many elements far too closely for my tastes.

One element I was very grateful for- particularly in relation to eps 1-3- is that this wasn't bogged down with 45 minutes of political minutiae. I can take or leave Kylo Ren/Adam Driver. There was nothing especially bad about him but neither was there anything remarkable about him. He's just kind of there to me.

For now there wasn't enough building of this new SW world or it's new heroes for a movie that seemed primarily intent on world building and introducing new heroes, but there's enough here that this might well wind up a very good first act within the greater context of the trilogy.

You have to remember they can have only so much time as this film is also about passing the torch and letting go of the old cast so those guys have to have enough screen time. Killing Han makes room for Luke. I think we will only see 2 or 1 of Chewie, R2, C3P0, or Leia stick around by the end of the ep9. Not that they will all die but some will just go away. I hope there's less of find OG cast in the next one other than Luke.

I didn't get bored once during this movie. I fail to see where people say it lags. I call bullshit

>You have to remember they can have only so much time as this
>film is also about passing the torch and letting go of the old
>cast so those guys have to have enough screen time.

Yes. I realize this. Hence, the bit about me waiting to see where it fits in with the next two to properly evaluate how I feel about this. the circumstances and what they were trying to do doesn't change how I feel about the way they executed that vision.

>I didn't get bored once during this movie. I fail to see where
>people say it lags. I call bullshit

Cool. You didn't get bored. I was bored by a lot of it. It was pretty slow to me. It's hilariou that you "call bullshit" on that.

I call bullshit over stans who catch feelings and call "call bullshit" when others see it differently.

I usually "call bullshit" when objectively viewed facts do not support the opinion (sports is great for this), not when the opinion is subjective in nature.

If, for example, one said Luke hogged up too much screen time, that would be objectively false. It's an opinion that does not bear out in the facts that he was only in the film at the very end and only for a minute. Not much room for discussion.

If, for example, one says that Rey's story wasn't all that well executed, that's subjective and there is plenty of room for discussion.

If, for example, I said I don't buy Fin remotely holding his own against Kylo, ostensibly a reasonably well trained Sith, to say nothing of Rey even with her raw abilities, well that's a subjective opinion that does have some weight based on the facts at hand.

Not sure how you're "calling bullshit" on a very subjective element. You weren't bored, great, but calling "bullshit" on someone who was is just plain silly.

>If, for example, I said I don't buy Fin remotely holding his
>own against Kylo, ostensibly a reasonably well trained Sith,
>to say nothing of Rey even with her raw abilities, well that's
>a subjective opinion that does have some weight based on the
>facts at hand.

Which is why Fin held his own against him, and is why when he was defeated and rescued before the plant blew up Snoke said he needs to complete his training.

He's powerful in the force, which is why he stopped that laser mid air, but for now he's not fully as trained as a young Luke and Vadar. I suspect he'll gain more power and more ability with his light saber in the future films.

I also call bullshit on some of the nip picking though, seeing as this is the first part to a new trilogy.

Again... depending on what develops from here I may come back and view things differently. If Finn turns out to also have some serious Force sensitivity and Ren was purposely holding back due to his inner conflicts, I may look at this slightly different but for now? NOPE. Even after a second viewing last night... No way in hell.

Even if he still needed some training to become an official Sith, Kylo should have plowed through Finn. Rey is a different story and I've come around on her because she appears to be a Skywalker as she's following a suspiciously familiar pattern for that family and the more I think about it I can easily see her being ridiculously powerful without a second of actual training by the way she was written.

>I also call bullshit on some of the nip picking though, seeing
>as this is the first part to a new trilogy.

I call bullshit on the term "nip", since the phrase is "nit picking", as in searching for lice in a child's hair.

All jokes aside, these details aren't nitpicking. It's the first in a new trilogy and many were hoping for something a little more developed story wise to get the ball rolling. We didn't quite get that and people love it as is so what's the big deal?

Remember he got gutted by Chewie's bowcaster, that would probably have left him a little weak in his fight against Finn and Rey.

Nothing wrong with that scene

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Just plain weak.

Even injured he should have mopped the floor with Finn.

As I said, I may come back and see certain things differently depending on the way 8 and 9 pan out.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Death Star plans, I mean the map to find Luke from? In the beginning?

Scattered throughout the Galaxy. That dude was one. Lupita is another,

Han shouldn't have gone out in some cringey semi-fetal mess. He's from the world of backstabbers and conniving assholes. He knows what the Dark Side is and what it can do to people.

Not to mention, he's arguably the most swagged out character ever committed to film. That scene could've been stronger but you know....that film was more into lifting A New Hope to think of a fresh sendoff for Han Solo.

His son should be the only one who kills him.

The average Star Wars viewer didn't have the same attachment to Obi-Wan in A New Hope because that was the first film. Han, on the other hand, has been a well-loved character for almost 40 years. Even if Kylo Ren has to be the one who does it, let Han get another line or something in there on the way out.

That death had me in my feels....

I almost cried when Hans died. I was low key shocked. I mean obviously one of them was dying in that moment and it was going to be Ben.

I feel like Rey is Luke's child. But being a twin to Ben would make sense too. Because I think Ben is the failed jedi that Luke was training...

Wish there was more dialogue/explanation BUT seeing as how this is a reintroduction, I'm sure the next movie will be amazing and fulfill most of the gripes in this thread

>I feel like Rey is Luke's child. But being a twin to Ben would
>make sense too. Because I think Ben is the failed jedi that
>Luke was training...
>
>Wish there was more dialogue/explanation BUT seeing as how
>this is a reintroduction, I'm sure the next movie will be
>amazing and fulfill most of the gripes in this thread
>

What do you mean think? Didn't they flat out say that Ben was the bad apple? Did you not are the entire conversation between Leia and Han?

The movie told us that that Luke quit after a student betrayed the Jedi
The movie told us that Ben/Kylo trained with Luke.

They didn't make the connection 100%. Odds are that's the case, but they gave themselves enough wiggleroom where it could still be a third character (maybe Ben went dark after the other jedi went nuts etc).



>
>>I feel like Rey is Luke's child. But being a twin to Ben
>would
>>make sense too. Because I think Ben is the failed jedi that
>>Luke was training...
>>
>>Wish there was more dialogue/explanation BUT seeing as how
>>this is a reintroduction, I'm sure the next movie will be
>>amazing and fulfill most of the gripes in this thread
>>
>
>What do you mean think? Didn't they flat out say that Ben was
>the bad apple? Did you not are the entire conversation between
>Leia and Han?

this is going off of just one viewing, but didn't that conversation make it seem like it WAS ben? han questioning how he could reach ben when luke couldn't?

that's what i got from it when watching. i'll probably see it one more time before it leaves the theater so i'll make sure to pay attention to this point.

>The movie told us that that Luke quit after a student
>betrayed the Jedi
>The movie told us that Ben/Kylo trained with Luke.
>
>They didn't make the connection 100%. Odds are that's the
>case, but they gave themselves enough wiggleroom where it
>could still be a third character (maybe Ben went dark after
>the other jedi went nuts etc).
>
>
>
>>
>>>I feel like Rey is Luke's child. But being a twin to Ben
>>would
>>>make sense too. Because I think Ben is the failed jedi that
>>>Luke was training...
>>>
>>>Wish there was more dialogue/explanation BUT seeing as how
>>>this is a reintroduction, I'm sure the next movie will be
>>>amazing and fulfill most of the gripes in this thread
>>>
>>
>>What do you mean think? Didn't they flat out say that Ben
>was
>>the bad apple? Did you not are the entire conversation
>between
>>Leia and Han?
>

and it's my belief that Ben was the bad apple that caused Luke to bounce...but like BigReg said it wasn't explicitly said, it's moreso implied. And my friend made an argument that it might not be so since we don't know for sure, I will say I THINK...because again, like Reg said they left that wiggle room so they can always change how they are going later. it could be the person who got to Ben was the one who went rogue.

- overall I felt like it moved kinda slow....

- like others have said I wasn't feeling the whole ANH remix down to the Death Star/Death Planet destruction

- I'm probably the minority but I didn't like the old characters having major roles, old ass Han Solo stumbling around, walking out on that bridge to his certain death, Leia had some weird ass jersey accent, then cracked out Mark Hamill at the end, they could've let those characters be and spent more time fleshing out the new ones.

-Kylo, is he a Sith? Don't they always come in 2's? Who trained him? How are Fin, a regular dude, and Rey, an untrained Jedi able to last more than a second in a light saber battle with him?

- Fin, I thought he was going to be a Jedi...and I thought all the storm troopers were clones of Boba Fett? Like others have said he could've been a little less buffoonish

- Rey, overall she's cool, I feel like they're trying to reel that hunger games crowd in. I thought her use of the force developed a little too quickly...

- Lupita was wasted

I definitely need to see it again...

Kylo most likely isn't a Sith and even if he is the rule of two would have died with Palpatine and Vader. Besides the rule of two was just something created by Bane because he was scared of all them up and comers. Its easier to watch one greedy power hungry apprentice than 20.

Jury is still out on if Finn will be force sensitive or not. Secondly, Storm Troopers haven't been clones in quite some time, remember they had accelerated aging that pretty much gave them short life spans. Once they began to die out they were replaced with regular ol' humans.

>Secondly, Storm Troopers haven't been clones in quite some
>time, remember they had accelerated aging that pretty much
>gave them short life spans. Once they began to die out they
>were replaced with regular ol' humans.
>
>
>

It's canon.

Thats why they can square up with him.

He has immense power (stopped that laser cold) but he cant control it and his internal struggle makes his force control iffy.

I expect him to be a terror in the 2nd flick

It's an homage to the 2nd draft of the original Star Wars that was titled: "Adventures of the Starkiller, Episode One: The Star Wars"

Cuz after he took off the mask and started crying I kept expecting a naked pasty bad tattooed Lena Dunham to show up on that bridge with him and Han and do some doofy dance.

I didn't want another helmeted villain but once he took his mask off he became less believable and I took him less seriously...he didn't really regain me until the fight with Rey...like when he killed Han I kept expecting him to laugh and be like just kidding kid

Thats the point. He a softshouldered lil bitch trying to live up to what he thinks his legacy is.

Weakling that's the son of Han and leia not of Hanna horbath's doofy boyfriend

As soon as he took off the mask I thought he was going to say "you think I'm bad don't you" or whatever the shit Adam said while jerking off (I've seen one episode of girls)

So question yourself for watching that dumbass 'Girls'
shit

Didn't know dudes watched that

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kareem-abduljabbar/girls-review_b_2593756.html

I wouldn't suggest watching it, cuz it's not good. My lady likes it and it comes on HBO.

Driver was good in that Baumbach movie and Llewyn Davis

he can't be menacing, that's not his real path. Thats why he kept having trouble and saying "i still feel the light". He's not a bad person but he's trying to be something he's not. He needs the mask in order for that to work because he's really just a clown/dork.

I don't watch Girls tho so my view of him is in no way skewed.

I agree with most of the issues above.

I was a bit let down when I realized that it was New Hope 2.0 (and I saw a headline called The Incomprehensible Politics of Force Awakens and agree that I never quite grasped. Why would The Republic have to pretend they weren't fighting The First Order?)

Mostly though, there were too many places to check-in to really fashion a great movie. I'd really love to know what Michael Arndt's take on it was. But the characters were all fairly superficial so it was tough for me to get THAT invested outside of the "Well, I like the franchise so I'll go with it."

Abrams isn't an action director and, as noted above, this film had too many characters for him to really work what he's good at. I'm a huge fan of Oscar Isaac but he felt out of place to me and his character was basically the cocky pilot.

All in all, I enjoyed myself. Can't imagine I'll watch it again.

>
>
>I was a bit let down when I realized that it was New Hope 2.0
>(and I saw a headline called The Incomprehensible Politics of
>Force Awakens and agree that I never quite grasped. Why would
>The Republic have to pretend they weren't fighting The First
>Order?)
>

All of this

>>>(and I saw a headline called The Incomprehensible Politics of Force Awakens and agree that I never quite grasped. Why would The Republic have to pretend they weren't fighting The First Order?)


like I don't want to get boggeddown in BS like the prequels, but wtf tho?

who is on what side and what weapons do they have?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Because the First Order is dedicated to crushing the New Republic (they can't keep using that name, right?) So why would they have to be secret supporters of the Resistance?

I really did think everything was done so perfectly. When Rey and Finn turn and see the Falcon, that was a moment. When Leia first saw Han, that was a moment. When Rey gets the lightsaber, that was THE moment.

I can't see this again soon enough and I'm surprised at the lukewarm response of almost everyone in his thread, but people are entitled to their own opinions of course.

that being said, the jaded yawny reaction round these parts doesn’t surprise me one bit. nothing less or more than i expected. can't please everyone.


>I can't see this again soon enough and I'm surprised at the
>lukewarm response of almost everyone in his thread, but people
>are entitled to their own opinions of course.

for those moments when the theater cheered at what was going on on screen, folks cheering when they saw Leia and then cheering louder when they saw 3PO, cheering when Han and Chewie stepped onto the Falcon, cheering when they realized the "garbage" was the Millenium Falcon, all great moments to share with a group of true fans.....



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

That wasn't in this and that to me implies Rey is Luke's kid

Why kylo rolls up on them in the snow woods with the mask on and turns his lightsaber on

trailer. It was never meant to be in the movie.




A list of some of the things that were in the trailer but not in the movie.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/all-the-stuff-from-the-force-awakens-trailers-that-wasn-1748720944

took my 9 year old son. I loved it even more this time I think, think the buildup for the first time I was slightly disappointed but knowing what happens this time around made me just enjoy everything as it is.

My son thinks its the best Star Wars yet, not really surprising to me, young viewers are gonna eat this up more than us old heads who have seen the trilogy a bazillion times.

the way y'all are talking, I wonder if y'all ever enjoy anything y'all watch....



We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

This thing is a classic

watching episodes 1 through 6 with my 10 year old who had never seen them, to see his face light up when that Star Wars logo hit the screen and the theme music start up, those are the moments you live for as a dad, we saw it last night and when it was over he turned around asked "can we see it again tomorrow?", and we were right back at the theater this morning for the early matinee. The homages and similarities to A New Hope didnt detract from The Force Awakens to me at all.....




We the children of the Light, you know what I mean?
That's why I'm hating on the darkness like Paula Deen
Cause in my hood they masked up like it's Halloween
We going hard for the Rock, but we not some fiends
- Andy Mineo

Yep, seeing with my son made it even better today. I get some of the complaints but man, it is freaking awesome seeing a quality Star Wars flick after all these years.

Also, 95% RT score says most are in agreement.

>when it was over he turned around asked "can we see it again
>tomorrow?", and we were right back at the theater this morning
>for the early matinee.

love this!

I'm not seeing a ton of negative reviews of the film as a whole.

I'm seeing a ton of elements that people didn't care for, thought could be done better, or, in some cases, plain didn't like.

Let's not act like this is some mass slaughter of the film.

It's okay to love the movies, but folks acting like the critiques aren't valid without offering any counterpoints only make the critiques look more justified.

It's just one of those things

People decide something, they aren't letting up,
they aren't going to listen

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

And I enjoyed this as well. I don't think pointing out some of the pretty inarguable flaws is proof that people "don't enjoy anything."

In fact, much of this post is populated with people who acknowledge the flaws but still say they enjoyed it.

Not to single out your reply, because you're far from the only one who says this in response to anyone who said anything bad about this (or Marvel, or DC, or Jurassic World for some people, or etc.). The first argument I always hear if critical of anything popular and/or tied to nostalgia like this is: "Boy, you people don't enjoy ANYTHING, huh?"

I stopped being a critic because I was accused of enjoying waaaaay too much, lol. Pointing out a film's flaws and enjoying the film as a whole aren't mutually exclusive.

I expected it so it is what it is

I enjoyed it a bunch, and honestly this is my top 2 or 3 Star Wars films.

Me and the kid will be back in the theater Monday to see this one again. Feel like they did an amazing job.

There will never be "magic" again.

That is over with.

Too many hands in the pot. Too many mouths to feed.

All we can hope for is good, fun, enjoyable movies.

And Episode 7 was just that.

There will be awesome moments, and charismatic
characters.

But if you want to read something magical, there's
hundreds of authors dreaming shit up at your local
bookstore. Lose yourself in that.

Hell, lose yourself in the extended Star Wars universe
stuff if you want.

it's in my 9 y.o daughter saying "i don't think kylo ren realizes that darth vader turns good at the end", or both my girls arguing about who gets to be rey and which one of them has to be rey's sister (and these are girls who saw frozen three times but never played elsa/anna).

so yeah, there might be some blinders on for those of us in the previous star wars generation. but as a movie that reintroduces the world and bridges the gap and makes my kids fall in love with star wars, in a way that the prequels never did, i will gladly take it.

>it's in my 9 y.o daughter saying "i don't think kylo ren
>realizes that darth vader turns good at the end", or both my
>girls arguing about who gets to be rey and which one of them
>has to be rey's sister (and these are girls who saw frozen
>three times but never played elsa/anna).
>
>so yeah, there might be some blinders on for those of us in
>the previous star wars generation. but as a movie that
>reintroduces the world and bridges the gap and makes my kids
>fall in love with star wars, in a way that the prequels never
>did, i will gladly take it.

GOOD FOR YOU. I'm SERIOUS.

My issue is this:

Everything you experienced can also be done with Gossip Girl.

And tons of other shitty little stories in shitty TV shows
and movies all over the TV universe.

If THAT IS WHAT STAR WARS HAS BECOME, then FINE!

If we admit that, we've conceded my major point.

It's not a storyline for interesting or compelling writing
and directing.

It's designed to for a bunch of random fun things to happen
on a screen.

I can roll with that. The only issue is this: I would just
as well have that experience with many many many other
sci fi or TV outfits that give me just as much joy, because
they are written better. The only thing they lack is the
nostalgia.

We forget that mythology is as old as human beings are. We
love all that shit because it's fascinating and telling and
connects with us in a lot of special ways.

That's what Beowulf was. And Dracula. And a lot of Samuarai
shit. And a lot of Egyptian shit. And some Malian Shit.

This ain't that.

This for some Jerry Springer set in space shit.

And FINE.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i just read the Dune series for the first time ever, because i was craving some of that deeper, mythological sci fi. but that's not what i was looking for with episode 8 (nor is that always what i'm looking for when i read).


>My issue is this:
>
>Everything you experienced can also be done with Gossip Girl.
>
>
>And tons of other shitty little stories in shitty TV shows
>and movies all over the TV universe.

if you mean there's a bunch of shallow, easily digestible stuff that is also fun to watch with my kids, sure. although gossip girl wouldn't be that.

but i'm talking specifically about something that i grew up with, enjoyed immensely, and am able to pass on to my kids in a way that isn't overbearing or trying to shove things down their throat. if episode 8 has my kids already calling back to episodes 4, 5, & 6; or leads to them reading some of the star wars books, then i'm willing to forgive some of it's fan service.

but i also think that it didn't need to go deep into star wars mythology. that mythology is already there and the fans that care are aware of it. and i would gladly take just a shallow dip into mythology vs. the explanation of midichlorians any day. i also expect that we will get more of it in episode 9, assuming that luke's search for the original jedi temple wasn't just a throwaway plot point.


>If THAT IS WHAT STAR WARS HAS BECOME, then FINE!
>
>If we admit that, we've conceded my major point.
>
>It's not a storyline for interesting or compelling writing
>and directing.

i agree that in an ideal world, every star wars movie would be a combination of great writing, great character, great story, and great direction. but sometimes we have to settle for a bit less. in this case, i'm settling for interesting characters (most of the new ones), a fun space romp, some comedy, a little drama, and a set up for episode 9.

as to the jerry springer in space, lucas started all of that back when he decided to make leia luke's sister, after the love-triangle of episode 4. and i'm surprised that you praise mythology but bemoan some of the jerry springer aspects. i mean, oedipus alone would be enough. but you have fratricide with cain and abel or set and osiris; loki dressing thor in drag (when he is not trying to sleep with thor's wife); the tale of potiphar's wife. there is huge melodrama in mythology.

and what we thought the Phantom menace was going to be

this was very satisfying..only two-three minor irritants




>Quite possible this might get locked, BUT....
>
>Here's a thread where you can put spoilers and your own
>reviews (that will contain spoilers) for The Force Awakens.
>
>Let's not spoil any other threads - people will be bummed.

a speaker blew so the for the last few minutes some of the dialogue was difficult to pick up.

He told the General to pick up Kylo Ren and bring him to him to complete his training.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/12/16/how_the_force_awakens_remixes_the_star_wars_expanded_universe.html

I'd be fairly shocked if Abrams or Kennedy looked at much EU stuff when figuring Force Awakens out. Most of the ideas mentioned just feel like the natural continuations of the original trilogies ideas/characters.

Him and a bunch of dudes just made a bunch of shitty
decisions at a table

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Again, it's a movie. Not a time machine.

Nerd

loved it.
no, it's not cinematic perfection, but neither are any of the OG trilogy.

it's fucking great though.

of the stuff I'm most impressed with, the casting/acting is on point.

I only truly appreciated it on the second viewing when I wasn't so worried about missing something.

Fisher and Ford both brought it.
the one criticism I'll levy is that on second viewing, there's a lot of han solo gazing/screentime/nostalgia, although it's understandable because you ain't getting any more after this.


Boyega? Killed. Even better on the second viewing. His role came off far less slapsticky and I appreciated it more.

Ridley? Mannnnn, so many times I watch a movie and i'm like "out of the billion white women trying to act, you picked THIS ONE that can't act? for why?" none of that here, she pulled it off. If people have issues I don't know what they are.

Isaac been known as a good actor, did a lot with very little screen time, I have nothing to add.

I haven't really read any of the reviews so I dunno if people have talked about it, but Domnhall Gleeson deserves some shout outs, cuz I never figured him for a Star Wars bad guy but he did the damn thing. I like him as an actor but I wouldn't have figured he would play that character so well.

I thought Adam Driver held the character up as it was supposed to be, I'm not blown away by his performance or anything, but it was good.

saw it in 2D and 3D, if you can handle 3D I'd recommend seeing it that way. if you can't, don't sweat it. There's not a lot of difference in brightness/color/sharpness or anything.

the effects were so fucking good, a couple scenes weren't great green screening, although thinking back that struck me more in 3D, so it could possibly be an issue w/ the conversion but I'll wait till I see it again to say for sure.

there were some weird mid-shot aspect ratio changes, anyone else notice that?

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>I haven't really read any of the reviews so I dunno if people
>have talked about it, but Domnhall Gleeson deserves some shout
>outs, cuz I never figured him for a Star Wars bad guy but he
>did the damn thing. I like him as an actor but I wouldn't have
>figured he would play that character so well.
>
Gleeson seemed to overact a tad on my first viewing, maybe the 2nd will change my opinion of his performance.

I had never seen him anything before Ex Machina but he was great in that one

>>I haven't really read any of the reviews so I dunno if
>people
>>have talked about it, but Domnhall Gleeson deserves some
>shout
>>outs, cuz I never figured him for a Star Wars bad guy but he
>>did the damn thing. I like him as an actor but I wouldn't
>have
>>figured he would play that character so well.
>>
>Gleeson seemed to overact a tad on my first viewing, maybe the
>2nd will change my opinion of his performance.

The negative comments are off, because nitpicking about
lineage and politics and who had what baby, or how much it's
like Ep 4 isn't relevant. None of those are the issues with
the movie.

The praise is off, because this movie isn't in the same planet
as 4,5,6 in any basic measure of filmmaking: pacing is hokey,
the interactions are mostly hokey, the story is clumsy.

It's a hokey, clumsy, awkward movie.

A very good, fun, beautiful, hokey, clumsy movie.

But it lacks the sheen of the 4,5,6. There's no real excuse
for that, so people who love the movie need to stop trying
to explain it with "well, it set everything up well." I don't
care. It was hokey. That's doesn't mean it's bad. But it's
a hokey dokey movie with very clumsy order of events.

Everything feels like a film where the point is to fit as
much interesting shit as possible into two hours+. It doesn't
feel like there are characters who autonomously and
organically stumble on interesting events because they operate
in an interesting world. That is how the original trilogy was.
There were actual characters dealing with stuff. They happened
to come together. And these cool things unfolded.

This movie lacked that.

This is why none of the performances are convincing: no one
ever really looks surprised, because they aren't. The actors
act like they are in a Star Wars movie. They know it. We know
it. And so they don't really come across as convincing people
(Finn comes close). It's just bunch of charismatic people
(and good actors) being shuttled between super important
events.

The old characters were the worst, because none of the give
a shit anymore. Having them play such a big role was a HUGE
mistake story-wise. They all mailed in their performances
because they don't care. Like, how passionate do you think
Fisher and Ford were in doing that scene about their breakup?
Both looked like they wanted nothing to do with it.

This trilogy is going to be fun, but Star Wars is done as
being interesting or relevant. The mythology is dead.

In some ways, the clumsiness of this movie makes me rethink
how bad the prequels were. Maybe pulling this off is just
difficult. And so maybe we were just too hard on Lucas.

>Everything feels like a film where the point is to fit as
>much interesting shit as possible into two hours+. It doesn't
>
>feel like there are characters who autonomously and
>organically stumble on interesting events because they operate
>
>in an interesting world. That is how the original trilogy was.

and this:

>The old characters were the worst, because none of the give
>a shit anymore. Having them play such a big role was a HUGE
>mistake story-wise. They all mailed in their performances
>because they don't care. Like, how passionate do you think
>Fisher and Ford were in doing that scene about their breakup?
>Both looked like they wanted nothing to do with it.

It doesn't make sense to say that it wasn't a problem that it was so much like Episode 7 and then say:

"This is why none of the performances are convincing: no one
ever really looks surprised, because they aren't. The actors
act like they are in a Star Wars movie. They know it. We know
it. And so they don't really come across as convincing people
(Finn comes close). It's just bunch of charismatic people
(and good actors) being shuttled between super important
events."

They had a chance to build something original and they followed the same game plan with slight changes (like TFA Ben turns his light saber on while ANH turned his off in the bad guy kills mentor scene.)

It's hard to make a great movie AND bring back the old favorites like this did but to just blame it on it being a Star Wars movie and ignoring the actual plot similarities and that the new actors are basically trying to be new versions of iconic roles instead of completely new characters would seem to be the core of that problem.

>"This is why none of the performances are convincing: no one
>ever really looks surprised, because they aren't. The actors
>act like they are in a Star Wars movie. They know it. We know
it. And so they don't really come across as convincing people
>(Finn comes close). It's just bunch of charismatic people
>(and good actors) being shuttled between super important
>events."

Nah, it's not about the story being unoriginal

It's about it being clumsily written and executed

You can make non-hokey of the story in that film

Dial it down, remove the old actors almost completely,
work HARD on pacing the story

They weren't actually that essential

The actors were quite good, it wouldn't have been very
difficult with that talent


>They had a chance to build something original and they
>followed the same game plan with slight changes (like TFA Ben
>turns his light saber on while ANH turned his off in the bad
>guy kills mentor scene.)

That the stories mirrored each other wasn't the issue,
though

It's the pacing


>It's hard to make a great movie AND bring back the old
>favorites like this did but to just blame it on it being a
>Star Wars movie and ignoring the actual plot similarities and
>that the new actors are basically trying to be new versions of
>iconic roles instead of completely new characters would seem
>to be the core of that problem.

Nope

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

"You can make non-hokey of the story in that film

Dial it down, remove the old actors almost completely,
work HARD on pacing the story"

Right. It was called Star Wars Episode IV. It's almost the exact same story minus with some moments reversed, usually for the worse.
For instance, Leia effectively saves our young Jedi from a sand planet that doesn't know he/she is a Jedi and good guy from the wrong side of the tracks instead of getting saved in the first movie.
Finn not shooting at all mirrors Han shooting first.
But it was stronger when Luke's parents were killed rather than Ray's just disappearing and presumed dead. (Which was another issue - the film had A LOT of tell don't show.)

I'm saying you could have had a fine movie with the same
level of similarity.

I'm saying the problems were with BASIC film stuff: pacing,
hokey storytelling.

Like you, I would have PREFERRED an original story.

But the events themselves weren't my issue.

The pacing and storytelling and hokey dokey-ness was.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I don't really get the pacing complaint.. maybe I'm not following you but this movie flowed pretty smooth for me from start to finish, more than A New Hope to be honest. I ain't saying its better but pacing or clumsy remarks don't seem correct. Also, I see young viewers who aren't so into the old movies putting this one as #1. JJ did what he needed to do in re-establishing the franchise.

I'm optimistic and hopeful that Episode 8 will be more original and not be another Empire.

>I don't really get the pacing complaint.. maybe I'm not
>following you but this movie flowed pretty smooth for me from
>start to finish, more than A New Hope to be honest.

That's just insane, so insane, that I'll ignore this comment

I ain't
>saying its better but pacing or clumsy remarks don't seem
>correct. Also, I see young viewers who aren't so into the old
>movies putting this one as #1. JJ did what he needed to do in
>re-establishing the franchise.

Well right, its about selling toys and T-shirts.

That's the point of this new trilogy.

JJ Abrams doesn't really care about making a great trilogy,
with great mythology, and storytelling magic.

That isn't the goal of this trilogy anymore.


>I'm optimistic and hopeful that Episode 8 will be more
>original and not be another Empire.

Episode 8 isn't out. Episode 7 is. So I'm discussing Episode
7.

And it was a clumsy remake.

Fun, cute movie.





----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

One of my most immediate thoughts as the credits began to roll was, "Man, without all the Star Wars imagery, this felt NOTHING like a Star Wars movie."


I can admit, and feel a bit flip for not saying as much below, that this was a "fun" movie. But it wasn't as fun as the last two Mission Impossible films, or John Wick, or several other recent action flicks. And if I apply knowledge of the series - prequels and all - to any of it, the action was severely disappointing.


But above all, I'm disappointed that this was a movie that consisted of a series of "hey look at this thing" moments. The movie lurched from moment to moment hoping the audience would connect the dots for it. It was a color by numbers book without any lines to color inside of.


And as someone said above, that CGI squid shit was a mess.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

New mythology will happen. Too many of us nerds are too invested. We will write terabytes of fan fiction, some of which Disney will make into books and recoup. The only way the new movies can completely blow the mythology aspect of Star Wars culture is if they disrespect the Big 3 characters.

As for a mythology in just the movies (as opposed to the new EU), there's still time, and this movie sets up some potentially interesting angles. Like, if Kylo and Rhea are siblings? There's your mythology.

Nobody knows who fucked who, when, and had what kids

Some of them have magic, and some don't

Some are just mad, at the people who have magic,
because they don't like their daddy, or because
their daddy was nicer to their other kids, didn't
come to their tournaments

And there's a government, that is corrupt, an a resistance,
and people searching for justice and truth and Barack
Obama

And then there's a very tall CGI person who is ugly and mad
for some reason that we've already been exposed to thousands
of times in other stories

And then there will be 27 coming of age stories in here

And then there is old wise man who is a tragic hero for some
reason and decided to go chill somewhere quiet and drink
woodroot tonic


It's not mythology.

Its stupid.

Too many of us were raised by Star Wars to admit it.

It hurts us inside to admit it, because by hating it, we
are hating a part of ourselves.

But it's shitty.

Cool movie.



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-answers-burning-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens

Fine, awesome, cute, and witty

But MY GOODNESS this is a clumsily put together
movie

Look at how MAJOR decisions were made?

Explains a lot about this movie

This is not how you make an epic

An epic has to BEGIN with a message and an aesthetic

There's some shit you want to get across

This movie BEGAN with these little rinky dink details
and introductions

AND THEN it FOUND a way to fit them into the "story"

It is a GOOD movie

I enjoyed it

But yikes...there is NO MAGIC in this film. NOTHING.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

That's a sad, mad, creepy dweeb of a reply.

: - (

Happy holidays


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

We know you want your opinion to be heard but we still think the movie was great. Get over it?

All because I pointed out some basic flaws

Must have struck a nerve

Now that you got me going, though, I'm gonna pick and
prod and make you even madder



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Fuck it, I'm gonna go on believing that Luke turned him on cuz he sensed it was time to come back.

>Fine, awesome, cute, and witty
>
>But MY GOODNESS this is a clumsily put together
>movie
>
>Look at how MAJOR decisions were made?
>
>Explains a lot about this movie
>
>This is not how you make an epic
>
>An epic has to BEGIN with a message and an aesthetic
>
>There's some shit you want to get across
>
>This movie BEGAN with these little rinky dink details
>and introductions
>
>AND THEN it FOUND a way to fit them into the "story"
>
>It is a GOOD movie
>
>I enjoyed it
>
>But yikes...there is NO MAGIC in this film. NOTHING.
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

Something like Luke sensed Rey tapping into the force and that it was time to start making moves to swing things back in the light side's favor is a better way to think about it than R2D2 just having a long boot cycle to me. Keep the idea that the force is this magical mystical thing.

>Something like Luke sensed Rey tapping into the force and
>that it was time to start making moves to swing things back in
>the light side's favor is a better way to think about it than
>R2D2 just having a long boot cycle to me. Keep the idea that
>the force is this magical mystical thing.

theprofessional gave a better answer to why R2 woke up. i didn't remember that it was the same scene as when Rey showed up. makes more sense.

He said Star Trek Into Darkness had too many "nods" to "Wrath of Kahn". He also said that he had people writing a collection of scenes that, as a story, didn't pan out so he had to figure out how to make the scenes as exciting as possible.

JJ is basically the anti-Joss Whedon. Whedon creates worlds and gets lost in them and gets pissed when people want to mess with them. JJ seems to try to figure out what execs and audiences want and then has the story jump to that point regardless of whether it makes sense or not. Business-wise, that's why studios prefer to work with Abrams but it's why his work is mediocre at best to me.

I was supposed to be on my third viewing now but I'm
having a hard time making it for a second viewing. I will,
and if I feel differently, I'll admit it

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

You went into a movie with Chewbacca expecting Waiting for Godot and came out mad. A grown man expecting to view a movie like from the perspective of a 5 year old is kinda sad and creepy.

>You went into a movie with Chewbacca expecting Waiting for
>Godot and came out mad.

Nah, you're mad that you waited all your life for a shitty
movie


A grown man expecting to view a
>movie like from the perspective of a 5 year old is kinda sad
>and creepy.

This is the second time one of you has gotten mad and
mentioned child molestation

I'm going to alert the mods the next time I see this,
because that's disgusting.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

You know lightsabers aren't real, right?

All because you waited a long time for a doo doo story



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

So sad.

Corny nods




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Even sadder.

We're getting somewhere, you chester molester


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

there's no space for that. Gawker-types like you need it to be the worst OR best shit ever ever because they have way too much emotionally-riding on it. You need to feel like you're inside an 8 year old's body again when you watch it. Anything less sends men like you into an internet rage. Hence your perpetual hissy fitting since seeing it.

The whole "it was what it was supposed to be"

=

"Why are you guys expecting anything more than a shitty
movie!?!?"

If those are your expectations, good for you

I'm gonna keep talking about what the actual movie was.

And it was a mess.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

before you actually see it. The real question should be why you and other grown men have so much emotionally riding on a kids movie.

Thanks, tho

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Best possible explanation for making Luke the macguffin

Really seems like they want to use the Star Wars framework and all the cache and advantages that come with it, but then they act like they would be mortified if Luke's presense would have taken away from the new characters.

Fuck off with that ego shit about "your" characters. They gave hammill one no-lines scene, and he basically made the whole movie an inconsequential preamble to it just by giving a look. Stick to the basics guys.

https://twitter.com/AoctaviusW/status/677646083653283840

this dude is so fucking excited to be in SW. it's awesome.

I prefer the prequels.

I am also not a spoil sport by nature, and prefer to run with the crowd, so don't take this as a case of wanting to feel separate from the masses.

The Force Awakens is a film that takes advantage of all the things people like about Star Wars to mask the fact that it is a boorish, confusing, far-too-long film. A dumb February castaway action flick repurposed as a Christmas blockbuster because a 'Star Wars' in front of a movie title demands eyes and ears.

I preferred the prequels, both as films and Star Wars properties. But I'm glad most people are enjoying the nostalgia of it all. I wish my nostalgia could cloud my judgement, but I've searched my feelings and know this to be true:

The Force Awakens is the filmic equivalent of a Cheesecake Factory, serving up just about any dish you could conceive of while failing to understand what makes any of it satisfying.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>I prefer the prequels.
>
>I am also not a spoil sport by nature, and prefer to run with
>the crowd, so don't take this as a case of wanting to feel
>separate from the masses.
>
>The Force Awakens is a film that takes advantage of all the
>things people like about Star Wars to mask the fact that it is
>a boorish, confusing, far-too-long film. A dumb February
>castaway action flick repurposed as a Christmas blockbuster
>because a 'Star Wars' in front of a movie title demands eyes
>and ears.
>
>I preferred the prequels, both as films and Star Wars
>properties. But I'm glad most people are enjoying the
>nostalgia of it all. I wish my nostalgia could cloud my
>judgement, but I've searched my feelings and know this to be
>true:
>
>The Force Awakens is the filmic equivalent of a Cheesecake
>Factory, serving up just about any dish you could conceive of
>while failing to understand what makes any of it satisfying.
>
>~~~~~~~~~
>"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
>http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
>Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

The prequels made Star Wars far too complicated, unrelatable and inhuman, but it looked and felt like Star Wars, CGI and all.


The Force Awakens borrows Star Wars as an excuse to make money on a dumb movie about anonymous people (played very well, I have nothing bad to say about the acting at all) doing whatever the fuck's convenient.


It's the equivalent of filming the stupid stories I told myself with Han Solo and Boba Fett action figures as an eight year old.


The lightsaber fight sucked, and The Force never mattered less than it did here.


Kylo Ren was a pretty dope villain, loved his voice and the mean shit he did to that laser.


But if Luke Skywalker is THAT DUDE with The Force, and he had to train on a rinky dink smuggling ship for months just to understand how a lightsaber works, some slave girl and a Stormtrooper we never even saw pull a trigger shouldn't be able to just stumble onto a lightsaber and punk the kid who's A) established to have Skywalker blood and B) went to fucking Jedi school.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

>The lightsaber fight sucked, and The Force never mattered less
>than it did here.

While its no Darth Maul craziness, I thought the scene in general worked well (first with Finn then Rey) except for the below

>But if Luke Skywalker is THAT DUDE with The Force, and he had
>to train on a rinky dink smuggling ship for months just to
>understand how a lightsaber works, some slave girl and a
>Stormtrooper we never even saw pull a trigger shouldn't be
>able to just stumble onto a lightsaber and punk the kid who's
>A) established to have Skywalker blood and B) went to fucking
>Jedi school.

Ren was mortally wounded so imho it made sense how Finn, (who IS a trained soldier despite the hi-jinks) was able to hang for about a minute until he lost since no force powers were used and it was just 'mano o mano'.

However the absolute ownage that Rey gave Ren was bizarre. Now Rey's main theme as a character is that she bucks all damsel in distress stereotypes which I LOVED and worked well in other parts of the movie and made logical sense. She scraps dead tech so of course she would know her mechanics. As a lone 'weak' human in a hussle ass desert planet she would know how to run, fight off some assholes with her staff..etc or else she would have not survived.

But that nigga Kylo is a trained soldier, active force user...etc. And she fucking WHUPPED him in the force and in fighting! It felt like they got to the end of the script and was like 'OK, how do the badguys lose and the goodguys win" and just hit the fastforward button. It felt unearned and it weakened what was a great setup for the final act.

He had the ability to freeze a laser AND PERSON in their place, something that I don't recall ever seeing in the previous films. (Also, can I just say how lame it is that the one expression of the force in this movie appeared to be some Darth Vader cosplayer holding his hand out and tightening his muscles so hard it shook around intensely? The force used to look a lot cooler.)

Rey realized she could harness the force like an hour before Ren came up on her in that snow field while Ren had been living that life for years and years, training under the sole remaining person/thing who'd harnessed both sides of the force and brought balance to the galaxy (until he didn't, because we'll find out eventually, I guess).

If Abrams wanted to go full on nostalgia with the shit, Ren should have sealed Finn in a block of ice and thrown Rey off the side of a cliff or something, mortal injury or not.

Either that or Han Solo should have gone Heihachi and thrown Kylo Ren into a volcano. That would have been a dope scene and made no sense just like the rest of the film.

UGH, THIS MOVIE.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

We don't know how long it has been since he turned, since Luke left etc

Maybe its only been 2 years? It doesn't take 20 years to grow a beard like that you know?

He obviously needs additional training referenced by Snoke saying "bring him so I can finish his training" or whatever he said.


Y'all coming in here doing your own Honest Trailers to this shit, can nitpick anything. lol It was fun, way more fun then the prequels.

but dude was literally one of the two heads of command the movie has under Snook and its not a stretch to assume he's got hundreds if not thousands under his command(gonna guess those battleships require a fuckload of manpower to fly); I doubt even the empire would say 'This nigga has the force, just bump him straight to general!'

And I took the below to mean more jedi training, not just plain military stuff

>He obviously needs additional training referenced by Snoke
>saying "bring him so I can finish his training" or whatever he
>said.
>

My thing is that the fight with Rey shouldn't have been a blowout; suddenly she was a jedi master and it seemed only to keep with the tone of the OG movies and give the good guys a strong win out the gate before pulling the rug from under them next movie.

luke didn't train for "months" he was on dagobah for a bliiiink. and then a trip to fight vader


and he was awesome at everything right away.

pilot? great.

lightsaber fighting darth vader, the GOAT, with practically no experience? great

this is nothing new.

if you want to lie about the star wars universe go ahead, but really, let's not pretend this "I'm just a prodigy becuz force" shit is somehow brand new and unbelievable.

niggas kill me.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I am referring to his training with a lightsaber.


The Empire Strikes Back takes place three years after the first Star Wars. Presumably Luke spends a lot of that time standing in front of a training droid getting shot in the chest just like he did on the Millennium Falcon on the way to Alderaan.


In A New Hope he only uses the Force once, isn't even sure how he did, and it was basically him focusing super hard on a hole in the ground. He's told the Force is real and spends the following weeks/months thinking Obi-Wan might be kind of crazy until he hears his voice in his head. Rey is told the Force is real and uses it to mind control a Stormtrooper and defeat a trained Jedi/Sith hybrid maybe 24 hours later.


We didn't even see Luke mind control someone until four years after he was told of the Force's existence, and after training on his own for three years with a few days/weeks of master course training with the former baddest Jedi to ever walk the universe.


Why are YOU lying on the original films?


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

is not possible for any of the other jedi.

when you got the force, you got it. shit is different for you.

there's no indication that Leia has ever trained in the force, but she still has it.

calling BS on applications of the apply-God-cream-here Force is some bullllshiiiiiit


Luke was a farmboy from nowhere who never did anything, and then bang he's a dope warrior. Even Rey at least had to grow up pretty much on her own, she's way tougher to me off rip just because of that

y'all don't want nobody else to be Luke, just let it go.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Get the fuck outta here RJ, you did not like this
dumbass movie

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

I agree with some of the positive things people have said above. The sets looked amazing. The special effects were great. It looked GREAT.

However this movie needs a ton of work and they are going to have to do alot in the next 2 movies to convince me this isnt another prequel situation.

The characters were cool. I think they didn't use all three correctly. In my mind it went like

Poe = Han Solo like character in the movie. He was older and more charismatic. Also should have been in the damn movie more than 25 min.

Finn = force sensitive storm trooper. I know he was a rookie but he also should of had the best combat training out of the other 2. Make him the more "sensitive" force wielding user. Meaning he feels other emotions more strongly. I mean I thought that was what they were alluding to when he got all wigged out in the beginning. Him and Rey are supposed to have a bond right?

Rey = force sensitive techno wiz. I think she is a bit stiff at times but she did a pretty good job. Have her be the fix person of the crew and a jedi. I think her story and characters was interesting out of the other 2.

Kylo = Should of never taken his mask off ever. Even with the part with Han they should of only shown the back of his head and never the front.


The story was kinda shitty. It should of been this great space adventure to find Luke. Revisiting planets like Hoth, Tatoonie, Degobah. On some great treasure hunt where the 3 main heroes bond and grow stronger. Is this too much to fucking ask? We gotta sit thru them blowing up another death star like base? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

JJ Abrams fucking better come with it on the next 2. I'm giving this movie a pass but I got the side eye going on too.

The good:

Characters: Abrams and the actors nailed it; the secret to star wars was never the plot/special effects, etc...it was always the characters (and how iconic they've become over 40 years) and the new class stands up to muster. Even Kylo Ren's performance that some people are criticizing is LIGHTYEARS better then what Lucas/hayden did in the prequels.

The tone: Enough new groundwork was laid as far as mysteries/side plots etc so that they've got more then enough shit to mine for the next two sequels and all the side movies they already have lined up.

Now the bad?

It was a re-run: I guess when you've got literally billions onthe line you gotta play it safe. The movie was more concerned with fan service then telling a new story; its a pure nostalgia ride and as a result certain plot points felt lazy.

For example the First Order taking over the Empire and going full nazi sounds exciting to me as the possibilities for new evil shit....but they just built another death star, lol.

Hopefully subsequent directors/writers will have the freedom to take the story into different places in the main series. But if these sequels just end up being note for note remakes on Empire Strikes and jedi, what was the point?

which....I dunno if rian johnson has got it, but hey disney has been pretty good with this shit so far.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

How the fuck you hate Avatar and like this?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

and was somehow regarded as a hero for this. FOH

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Thousands


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

your troll bearings are way off, get that shit straightened out.

That's trolling

People are really mad that this movie is sloppy

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Just way to much going back to the well. I did like the acting, the action, the visuals and most everything other than the story. The Han/Leia reunion recapping everything we had already figured out was pretty lame too.

The excitement has got people grading this movie much higher than it deserves. If it didn't have the name Star Wars in front of it or if Lucas had directed it then both critics and fans would be grading this movie much harsher.

You could probably play ANH and TFA side by side and probably sync up scene for scene.

Please, no more Death Stars/Planet Killers.

They need to explain this whole relationship between the Republic and Resistance. I better see the New Republic military forces going after the First Order with full force in the next movie. The First Order just destroys an entire planetary system that is a member of the New Republic and the New Republics response is to just do nothing? Go about their business like nothing happened? The planet that was destroyed by the First Order, what planet was it? Was that the capital of the New Republic? How and why was that one chosen?

Kylo Ren getting whipped up by Rey was cool but it wasnt believable at all. The very first time Rey touches or even turns on a light saber and she can beat her trained cousin or brother with ease? At least Luke had some Jedi 101 for Dummies crash course training by Obi Wan. Ren had never even met a Jedi but she can beat someone who has been trained by both Luke and Snoke?

Overall it was fun and enjoyable even if it was a complete rehash of ANH. I give it a B- and would rank Episode III ahead of this.

>The excitement has got people grading this movie much higher
>than it deserves. If it didn't have the name Star Wars in
>front of it or if Lucas had directed it then both critics and
>fans would be grading this movie much harsher.
>
>You could probably play ANH and TFA side by side and probably
>sync up scene for scene.
>
>Please, no more Death Stars/Planet Killers.
>
>They need to explain this whole relationship between the
>Republic and Resistance. I better see the New Republic
>military forces going after the Firet Order with full force in
>the next movie. The First Order just destroys an entire
>planetary system that is a member of the New Republic and the
>New Republics response is to just do nothing? Go about their
>business like nothing happened? The planet that was destroyed
>by the First Order, what planet was it? Was that the capital
>of the New Republic? How and why was that one chosen?
>
>Kylo Ren getting whipped up by Ren was cool but it was t
>believable at all. The very first time Ren touches or even
>turns on a light saber and she can beat her trained cousin or
>brother with ease? At least Luke had some Jedi 101 for Dummies
>crash course training by Obi Wan. Ren had never even met a
>Jedi but she can beat someone who has been trained by both
>Luke and Snoke?

The New Order?

Resistance?

I admit I am calling the Republic, the New Republic rather than just the Republic.

look toward the end there. i knew what you were talking about, just thought it was kinda funny.

PLUS, i see that you edited that shit so don't try and play like you didn't mix the names up. the original post with your mistakes is in my post since i RWQ'd that shit.

Their names are too similar. To bad Ren isn't Kylo's given name because that would add fuel to the idea that Ren and Rey are related. It would be similar to Luke and Leia.

hash of ep4 has *you* confused

actually he mixed up Ren and Rey quite a bit towards the end but its all good. lol

who he was talking bout, ur reaching and weirdly so

he went back and edited his post (which is what you read) but if you look at my RWQ you will see the original post. he kept typing Ren when he meant Rey 4 times.

not a big deal, i know what he was saying, i just found a little humor in it that's all.

>The excitement has got people grading this movie much higher
>than it deserves. If it didn't have the name Star Wars in
>front of it or if Lucas had directed it then both critics and
>fans would be grading this movie much harsher.

YUP, as long as it was "better" than any of the prequals and had lightsabers ppl were calling it the best thing ever. Hate the prequals all u want but at the very least that added original content to the story of the star wars universe


>
>You could probably play ANH and TFA side by side and probably
>sync up scene for scene.

LOL!!!!!
>
>Please, no more Death Stars/Planet Killers.
>
>They need to explain this whole relationship between the
>Republic and Resistance. I better see the New Republic
>military forces going after the First Order with full force in
>the next movie. The First Order just destroys an entire
>planetary system that is a member of the New Republic and the
>New Republics response is to just do nothing? Go about their
>business like nothing happened? The planet that was destroyed
>by the First Order, what planet was it? Was that the capital
>of the New Republic? How and why was that one chosen?
>
YES Please do! at this point i can only think that JJ did the resistance so TFA would be EXACTLY like ANH. i would have been a lot less bothered if it was the Republic battling the remnants of the empire, Leia could have still been a general, they coulda still had the X wing battles etc but why this goofy Resistance, that is financially supported by the Republic

i think the system the new death star destroyed was not the republic capital system but some other system but they were gonna get the republic capital (coruscant) but didnt get around to it.

I thought it referenced the old stuff well without being too nostalgic. I knew either Han or Leia were dying so the story could go forward. I suppose you could argue it was too predictable for reasons like that, but it was fun and better than the prequels and that's all I wanted.

I hope this is the worst of the new trilogy quite frankly, but I'll count my blessings on this one. My main worry with JJ was that the franchise would look too much like the new Star treks, but this is clearly a Star Wars movie. Can't think of one lens flare incident honestly.

>I knew either Han or Leia were dying so the story
>could go forward.

>>I knew either Han or Leia were dying so the story
>>could go forward.
>
>

I was glad they didn't do a big, corny Han/Leia getting back together thing.

I thought he was gonna wild out, and get offed too.

I sat there trying to prep myself.

cuz there ain't no coming back from that shit.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

MAYBE C3PO

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

i think we see R2 more in Rogue One than the new trilogy some how

They kept panning back and forth, and I was still sitting there thinking that Han wouldn't die as the franchise's most popular character.

We need to see a batshit crazy angry Chewbacca at some point, ripping the arms off of Stormtroopers and beating them to death.

Maybe that's just me though.

in "reality" Chewie would've went full-Wolverine and started ripping Storm Troopers limb from limb.

but we all know Chewie's gonna ultimately get revenge for his boy's death and live happily ever after with the little Orange Yoda lady.

and I wonder if they left it out bc of ratings, because it would've been good, made sense, and cleared up a stupid fan theory about rey.

I also think it might not've looked great on screen

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

and I wonder if they left it out bc of ratings, because it would've been good, made sense, and cleared up a stupid fan theory about rey.

I also think it might not've looked great on screen

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

it's still a good movie, but at almost every turn I thought how they just took an idea from a previous film and made it slightly different (the death star becomes the super sized death planet, they blow up the death planet almost EXACTLY the same way as the death star!!!). Carrie Fisher was a complete bore for me. her scene with Han was just horrible. and without any context, han's son didn't have any weight as I have no idea why he ended up the way he did.

Snote or snoop, or whatever, is a horrible name.

I'm going to watch it once more, but I can say that I'm definitely disappointed. it's hyped as if it's a way better movie, but it's just ok.

I will say that I really liked Fin and the idea of his first battle and him not going through with anything. I did like kylo ren taking off his helmet and the interaction with him and the girl.

In 1977, a bunch of characters in their 20s and 30s rebel against a father figure that's turned away from a vaguely defined spirit of goodness in search of power and domination. In 2015, that same ragtag crew have been fighting the forces of evil for almost four decades but are now faced with the problem of their early 30's children flirting with the same draw of power and domination.

I had a great time watching this. And I was really pleased with the casting. Finding actors who could actually have fun with something so culturally freighted was pretty impressive.

But I'm sick of being told how important my parents' generation is.

http://www.vox.com/2015/12/22/10641652/star-wars-the-force-awakens-episode-8

OE is just getting ahead of the masses waiting to turn on the flick.
If Episode 8 is just a retelling of Empire, it will definitely make Force Awakens not nearly as good as it currently stands for most people, a fresh start to the franchise.

If BD Wong stealing the dino DNA is the impetus for an amazing Jurassic World 2 or if the next Jurassic movie is a shitty money grab, it doesn't change the fact that Jurassic World is big, dumb fun. It won't be any smarter or any dumber than it was before.

Similarly, retrofitting the destruction of Man of Steel into a story point in Batman v Superman doesn't really improve Man of Steel (which I'd say was big, dumb, and not much fun.)

The success of Rian Johnson's venture won't change JJ Abrams's execution/decision making.

>If BD Wong stealing the dino DNA is the impetus for an
>amazing Jurassic World 2 or if the next Jurassic movie is a
>shitty money grab, it doesn't change the fact that Jurassic
>World is big, dumb fun. It won't be any smarter or any dumber
>than it was before.
>
>Similarly, retrofitting the destruction of Man of Steel into a
>story point in Batman v Superman doesn't really improve Man of
>Steel (which I'd say was big, dumb, and not much fun.)
>
>The success of Rian Johnson's venture won't change JJ Abrams's
>execution/decision making.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

When the original Star Wars came out you didn't need much political context - there was an Empire and there was a Rebel Alliance fighting against it. We knew the Empire was new-ish, because the Senate was disbanded during the course of the movie, but that was all you really needed to know. The bad guys looked like space Nazis and we were off to the races.

It turns out we might need slightly more political context for Star Wars: The Force Awakens - context the movie doesn't supply. But it turns out some of the now-canon tie-in books do, and I've spent a little while at Wookieepedia figuring out just what the hell is up with The Resistance and the First Order.

Why do we need some context? Because the last time we saw the Star Wars galaxy the Empire had fallen - see the celebrations in the streets of Coruscant in the Special Edition - but now we're right back in what looks exactly, completely like the political context of the first Star Wars movie. There's an evil Nazi-like Empire running around and there are good guy Rebels in a hidden base. Not only is like nothing changed since Jedi, it's like we went back in time to the first film. But it's not quite so simple.

A little history: the Galactic Civil War didn't exactly end with the Battle of Endor. While that was the decisive turning point, it seems to have gone on for one more year, with the final final battle happening at Jakku. The Rebels formed the New Republic while the shattered remains of the Empire limped out to the Outer Rim, where you can easily disappear. It's wild space out there. Think of it like the Nazis who escaped to Argentina.

The Rebels set up the New Republic and, for reasons that escape me, established their capitol in the Hosnian System, on Hosnian Prime. While I get that Palpatine probably stunk up Coruscant, that planet was the seat of power of the Old Republic as well - I don't quite know why they moved. Maybe it's so that when Starkiller Base blows up a planet it isn't Coruscant, even though the planet blown up in The Force Awakens looks, for all intents and purposes, like Coruscant.

While the New Republic was getting back into the business of being a democratic society - ie, a lot of bickering and fighting and stalemates and poltical nonsense - the shards of the Empire were reforming on the Outer Rim under the guidance of the mysterious Supreme Leader Snoke. Most in the New Republic ignore the growing menace of the First Order, but not Leia - after all, the Organas have a history of seeing bad shit coming down the pike. She pleads with the New Republic to deal with the First Order, but everybody thinks she's overreacting; finally she's able to convince the powers-that-be to let her go off and lead a small resistance group which she then imaginatively names The Resistance. Basically this is like when the US sends advisors and some money and weapons to support an insurgent group in a communist (or now Islamic) country. The New Republic isn't fighting the war - the logo of The Resistance is pointedly the same as the logo of the Rebel Alliance, not The New Republic (which, to be fair, is pretty similar anyway) - but they're kind of fighting a proxy war led by Leia.

That's the basic set up; when The First Order blows up Hosnian Prime it's basically like a terrorist group going after the US because it has supported fighters in their home region. It's an extravagant move, of course, but The First Order, influenced greatly by the Empire, seems to think big.

When it's all laid out it's simple, but the movie really obfuscates it, leaving many people to scratch their head in confusion about the exact state of the galaxy at the opening of The Force Awakens. The true mystery - one that doesn't feel like a storytelling fumble - is just who and what Supreme Leader Snoke is. It seems clear that his recruitment of Ben Solo/Kylo Ren was a turning point in the struggle for The Resistance - this must be why they need Luke Skywalker so badly. But what role Snoke played in the formation of the First Order and how he turned Ben Solo are stories that remain to be told. The rest of this stuff was simply inconveniently hidden in books (many of them young reader novels, no less!).

http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/18/what-the-hell-is-the-story-with-the-resistance-and-the-first-order-in-the-f

Write a compelling story that makes me give a shit,
that isn't patched together like an antique Howdy Doody
doll

Don't nobody care about none of that fuckery

Make me care about the actual movie I'm watching for
reasons OTHER THAN its a sequel to something that was
actually great

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

i know you gotta do what you do and all. and that's fine.

but i had a FANTASTIC time at the theater watching this movie. nothing anyone says is going to change that.

so there's really no need.

that explains it better but its just an explanation for not being creative and point for point retelling the ANH story

http://www.theonion.com/article/fan-just-going-keep-open-mind-about-whether-new-st-52062


CHICAGO—In an effort to avoid making a judgment before he even enters the theater, local fan Mike Siedler confirmed Wednesday that he was going into tomorrow’s premiere with an open mind about whether Star Wars: The Force Awakens is the best or worst movie ever made. “It’s easy to jump to conclusions over such a highly anticipated movie, but I’m trying to be impartial about whether it’s the greatest thing I’ve ever seen or a colossal disappointment that will forever taint my treasured childhood memories,” said Siedler, adding that he would do his best to hold off on deciding if the film deserves to be immediately hailed as an all-time cinema classic alongside A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back, or railed against as a crass commercial cash-in that makes the prequels look good in comparison. “I grew up on these movies, so I’m obviously bringing a lot of expectations, but I’ll try to be unbiased before determining if the new characters and storylines are an exciting direction for the series or a complete betrayal of everything Star Wars should be. Ultimately, if I can keep some perspective on whether J.J. Abrams is a genius who restored the magic and wonder of the Star Wars franchise or a talentless hack who shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a film set, I’ll enjoy the movie more.” Siedler further added that he would refrain from deciding whether to spend half or all of his paycheck on The Force Awakens merchandise until after the film.

It had its own problems but way better than the prequels. Loved the cameos. The guys from The Raid got me hype. I wish they showed them fighting.like someone said earlier, it along with Mad Max rekindled my love of the theater experience. The sounds,the score, the visuals and the cast took me back to the Star Wars of my youth.I was doubting JJ Abrams but he delivered something special here. It exceeded my expectation. I agree with most of the criticism some has raised but despite that,the movie was awesome to watch.

This was a fun flick with cool characters, but
it wasn't a good Star Wars flick.

Props to the new cast, they killed it.

Happy for Boyega.

But this film requires you to turn off your brain.

So the old big 3 are some bitches huh??

Luke is hiding out...Solo is basically a dead beat
dad...the princess is lazy as sh!t.

Why did they all give up on Driver???

Solo hasn't been trying to save him?

Leia can't be bothered to try and save dude?

No wonder he's doing bad sh!t- his folks are
cowards.

Meanwhile uncle Luke is chilling on Jedi Island?

Damn, our old heroes fell the f$ck off, huh??

That and the dumb a$$ plot holes really
took me out of the flick.

Did they rush this hot garbage?!?

This was a big, fun, dumb, heartless, soulless,
plotless popcorn flick.

I guess that's what Star Wars fans want?? Who knew??

I don't get it.

OE is right. The mythology, the soul, the heart,
the details are all gone.

Star Wars is just another popcorn franchise. It isn't
special at all anymore.

Can anyone tell me why the film makers
assumed the audience was full of idiots?

and I thought the prequel trilogy was horrible and nigh-unwatchable at times. But the problem with the prequel trilogy is that it tried to be too Star Warsy and forgot to be an actual movie. This movie's problem was that it tried to be too much like generic summer blockbuster superhero movie de jour, and forgot to be an actual Star Wars movie.

So even though the prequels were undeniably worse movies, I give them an A for effort. This movie was a huge disappointment, and Star Wars has effectively been killed to me at this point (the original trilogy will always be some of my favorite movies ever though).

This movie was like the Star Wars version of the first Hobbit movie. Everybody who "liked" it says, "Just wait until the next one comes out, they'll fix all the shit that was wrong with it!" Except that's not how things ever end up.

>This movie was like the Star Wars version of the first Hobbit
>movie. Everybody who "liked" it says, "Just wait until the
>next one comes out, they'll fix all the shit that was wrong
>with it!" Except that's not how things ever end up.


Totally summarizes what I said above, as well as O_E. You could watch The Hobbit side by side with Lord of the Rings and say, 'yea, those look like the same world.' But the actual details of the world, and the care with which the worlds are presented, is so off in The Hobbit and this movie that it feels like a generic movie borrowing the lore of a beloved franchise to build itself up.


What was stranger about The Hobbit (before news of its production pipeline reached the general public) was that it had most of the same crew. I figured Abrams wouldn't be able to just transform into George Lucas - especially since he's trying so hard to climb inside Stephen Spielberg's skin - but I figured his reverence for the conventions of his idols would lead to a fairly familiar feeling movie.


The Force Awakens looked like Star Wars, but the camera didn't seem interested in looking at all that stuff the same as it had before. It was jarring. Alongside the heavily action-oriented script (ignoring that the action was fairly bland) and convenient lack of explanation for several things just because the movie needed to move and end, this was a huge annoyance of mine. The movie felt like a guest in the universe, not part of the core family.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

Luke is chilling out on Jedi Island while his
friend and billions other die.

Solo is a dead beat dad. His kid turned evil,
and he started hauling space elephants.

The princess seems like she's on so much
Prozac she doesn't know what planet she's
on. "Bring our son home" bitch, mount up let's
go. Not due why we waited 10-15 years, but
you're privelaged ass is coming with.

WTF???

This is what y'all waited 30 years for??

This sh!t was a dumbed down, rushed,
popcorn fueled reboot.

And on top of that, our heroes from the old
days each look more cowardly and b!tch
made than the last.

Faced down Vader, but scared of big eared
dude from Girls???? WTF??

Solo's death meant nothing. Not just because
it was ridiculously predictable, but the Solo
character wasn't even like able let alone
recognizable.

Jesus the bar was low for this movie.

And in the same year Creed came through
and crushed the buildings.

What a sh!t show.

>Solo's death meant nothing. Not just because
>it was ridiculously predictable, but the Solo
>character wasn't even like able let alone
>recognizable.

>
>>Solo's death meant nothing. Not just because
>>it was ridiculously predictable, but the Solo
>>character wasn't even like able let alone
>>recognizable.
>

It was painful watching the 75 year-old version of Han Solo and realizing that he was still doing the same shit that instead of actually evolving as a character he was just a more physically handicapped version of the swashbuckling womanizer he was 40 years ago. They could have made Han Solo evolve in some interesting way, but instead they wanted to rehash the old, "I've got a bad feeling about this" lines and behavior so that the audience could get their fix of nostalgia.

he tried settling down with leia. it didn't work. he tried being a dad. his kid turned to the dark side. at this point, he's a 60-year-old divorced guy whose son won't talk to him, so he decides to go back to being han solo. he's SUPPOSED TO BE the old dog going back to his old tricks, it's SUPPOSED TO FEEL LIKE the retired hall of famer who tries to come back for one last hurrah and gets destroyed by the 20-year-olds. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE SAD AND PATHETIC. did you watch the movie?

What they are is an excuse by the writers to not have to portray that part of his character, but rather to just stick with something that the audience would be familiar with. It worked for you - for me it was terrible. But I think that's the first time I've ever seen someone say that it was supposed to be painful to watch. Everyone who loves the movie seems to love that Han is back to his old ways, meaning they are not getting the feeling that you are describing at all.

i mean, it's han solo, so he's always gonna have that swashbuckling twinkle in his eye, and harrison ford played the hell out of it. but the fact that when we meet him, he's resorted to smuggling these massive octopus monsters, which is dangerous and stupid and desperate, it's supposed to show how far he's fallen. the point being that this is not just the same character pulling out the same tricks from 30 years ago. he has indeed evolved, you just missed that part.

And mailed in his performance



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

So yeah


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

As if to say "I was a piece of shit before fatherhood-I was happy until my son basically died-I'm a piece of shit after fatherhood."

>As if to say "I was a piece of shit before fatherhood-I was
>happy until my son basically died-I'm a piece of shit after
>fatherhood."

Because he didn't care about this dumb movie


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

on the one hand, i have no inside information about episode VIII. on the other hand, i'm right about all this, so if you'd like to continue arguing over dumb theories and complaining about nonsense for the next two years, read no further 'cause this is gonna spoil some stuff for you.

- rey is luke's daughter. there's no question about this. the clues were sprinkled throughout the movie: 1) when she's chilling in the desert and puts on the fighter pilot helmet for fun. it's a rebel alliance helmet, very possibly the exact same one luke wore in IV. 2) luke's lightsaber is calling to her. she's a skywalker. 3) for you morons complaining that R2 woke up at a really convenient time, think about what happened in that scene. who walked into the room for the first time? yep, rey. JJ isn't an idiot. his explanation that R2 just took a while to boot up or whatever is obviously a lie to protect the reveal in VIII that luke programmed R2 to run in low power mode until rey arrived. you could say that R2 was... awakened.

- speaking of awakening, again, guys, stop being dumb. those of you complaining that finn and rey defeated kylo ren too easily didn't watch the movie. first of all, finn-- who was a stormtrooper trained in combat-- held his own for about two minutes before nearly being killed. rey, on the other hand, eventually put ren on his back. how? she's just a random force-sensitive girl from jakku who's never been trained, right? wrong. the first scene that finn sees her, she gets in a fight with two or three grown men. before he can even get to her to help, she's used her staff or whatever it was to put both/all of them down. she's not just a random girl from jakku, guys. she's been trained. her vision in maz's basement may very well have not been a vision at all, but suppressed memories. someone took her to jakku, force-wiped her memory and left her. that someone is likely luke and he probably did it to protect her from ren and his knights, but we won't get the full story till VIII. fine, but i'm right about this.

- again, the movie is titled "the force awakens." things that are awakened have to first be put to sleep. if rey was only learning about the force for the first time in this movie, it would be titled "the force discovered," but it's not. the force is with rey. she's been trained. R2 in sleep mode throughout the movie is a parallel for rey in sleep mode. my favorite scene in the movie is the interrogation between ren and rey. he tries to force-pull thoughts out of her mind, but what he doesn't realize is that he's opening a door that swings both ways. suddenly the things rey is capable of start coming back to her, and she starts force-reading him. suddenly she knows who darth vader is and what the significance of that is. a random girl from jakku. come on, guys.

anyway, listen, if you guys don't like the movie, fine. but don't not like it because you're too dumb to figure out what's going on. the fact is that with the number of things JJ had to accomplish with this movie and with a $4 billion disney property riding on it, the degree of difficulty was off the charts. TFA-- flaws and all-- is not just a better movie than anyone could have possibly hoped for, it has a very legitimate case for being the best star wars movie ever. i'll need to see it a few more times before i crown anybody, but i care more about where this next star wars movie and these new star wars characters are going more than i ever have before, and so do you. we've officially moved out of blockbuster spectacle event territory and back into george's original vision of a serialized space opera where you can't wait to see the next chapter. JJ did it.

...I came away with some assumptions that are in line with yours:

- Luke is Rey's dad and, even more, Kylo Ren definitely killed Rey's mom/Luke's lover

- Luke never met his mom, saw his aunt and uncle killed, didn't meet his sister until he was in his 20s, and knew his dad for five minutes; his family is a train wreck. He FINALLY had familiar stability with Rey and this other woman until it was taken from him by Kylo Ren (at the urging of Snoke) To seek vengeance would've meant giving in to the Dark Side, so instead Luke dropped Rey in a desert and went into solitude - a less than ideal solution at least intended to keep his daughter safe and prevent him from becoming bloodthirsty.

- this will also set up Rey's own temptation...sure she's excited at the notion of being a Jedi now, but will she resist a violent urge if she finds out Kylo Ren killed her mother she never met? Rey could just as soon be tempted by the Dark Side too. Much like it became apparent that Palpatine used Vader as bait to recruit Luke, Snoke could be using Kylo Ren as bait to recruit Rey...

She's a Skywalker. It makes too much sense for her NOT to be.

and if that's not enough, just consider the simple fact that she's the lead of the movie. there's no way the lead of the new trilogy isn't going to be a direct descendant of anakin(PT)/luke skywalker(OT).

Like...ok? Are they going to do the whole, "You abandoned me! I'm mad at you!" thing for the next movie? That's pretty boring. The reveal in Empire Strikes Back was interesting because you knew that for Luke to beat the Empire, he would have to defeat Vader. Yet at the same time, the audience knows that Luke is curious and prideful about how his father was a good guy and a Jedi. So which side is going to win out? The problem with Luke/Rey is that they're on the same team, so I don't really give a shit. And it's kind of sad that Star Wars has devolved into, "OMG...I TOTES think that she is his daughter!" Why would this be an interesting revelation?

But I think it could be really interesting if Kylo Ren is the one to tell Rey that Luke is her dad and that Ren killed her mother. Then she's faced with wanting to kill Ren and being let down by Luke

i don't think another "i am your father" moment will ever work again for star wars, simply because it's too well known for it. i think it's more like just a plot point that they saved for VIII, partially because we don't need to know everything in this movie to enjoy it (think of how in IV there was no hint that these main characters-- luke, leia, vader-- might even have a connection) and partially just to give these characters somewhere to go for the next chapter. rey being a skywalker won't be a surprise because by then, after we've all seen it 120 times on blu-ray, we'll have figured it out. it'll be more like the kylo ren reveal, just something that's said through the course of events, and now where are we gonna go with it.

it matters that rey is luke's daughter because people are getting mad at TFA, thinking it's "the force discovered," when it is indeed-- as the title suggests-- the force being awakened in her. she's already strong with the force, she's already been trained enough to take down ren, and based on her lineage she has a path to becoming the most powerful jedi (or sith) in the galaxy. she just happens to have no idea about any of it when we meet her. she thinks she's a nobody orphan from planet nowhere (and despite all the clues, lots of people are walking out of TFA thinking the same). as a setup, it's kinda brilliant.

Which was my and many others main issue. I actually agree with ur speculations. But all ur keyboard banging haughty insults don't excuse how unnecessarily similar TFA was to ANH

If this was gonna be a reboot they should have just called ig episode IV the next generation

two of the things they had to accomplish here was getting back the old fans who had been burned by the prequels and bringing in a generation of new fans who had little reference to what makes star wars star wars. they did it by gathering us around the one thing we could all agree on: the OT.

so, yes, TFA is ANH 2015 (with elements of ESB sprinkled in). JJ said they were gonna go backwards to move forward. now that we've had a movie that feels every bit like star wars and characters that we connect with as much as the originals... now that we're all back on board, we can move forward with new stories that will hopefully reinvent and push the boundaries of what "feels like star wars."

i saw TFA on monday afternoon and in the lobby overheard a little girl-- maybe six or seven years old-- bragging that she had already seen it three times. this movie was made just as much for her as it was for me, maybe more so. star wars now belongs to her as much as it ever did for me. i got my "nobody kid from the middle of nowhere saves the galaxy" story, now she has hers. i got my kenobi killed by vader moment, now she has hers. i got my trench run on the death star, now she has hers. i'm not mad about it.

Ways to bring the old fans back in ( who were gonna show up and watch all three of the sequel trilogy films regardless) and introduce the new characters without doing a point for point redo of ANH. A new plot shouldn't have been that hard to come up with

Also episodes 4-6 are not loss footage that no one has access too. But even if u hadn't made the effort to see them beforehand, the filmmakers could have still told another story

So in conclusion u sound fucking ridiculous

you missed the story because your eyes were filled with tears. point me to the places in ANH where:

- the entire impetus of the movie is the search for a lost jedi

- a bad guy defects and helps out the good guys

- the main villain is fleshed out in any way whatsoever besides just being a scary guy in a dark suit

- the hero is suffering from some sort of amnesia which gradually fades thanks to a vision from a lightsaber and an interrogation by the villain

- the film ends on a melancholy cliffhanger instead of a triumphant medal ceremony

- or literally the hundred other things in TFA that we didn't see in ANH

yes, the two movies have similarities. yes, there are similar overarching themes (group of nobodies work together to save the galaxy). yes, starkiller base is a clear and direct homage to the death star, and yes it gets blown up too, but in an attack that just so happens to be background noise of the main battle taking place between finn, rey, and ren-- a battle for which there is no parallel in ANH. just like there's no parallel in ANH for the vast majority of stuff that happens in TFA, including the entire impetus of the movie: find luke skywalker.

how about this? next time you watch it, wipe the tears from your eyes so you don't miss the movie they made.

The "old fans" would have been just fine with a good,
interesting, original, well-written story

Just like the new fans would have been

They didn't deliver that

They delivered a goofball tiresome retread


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

maybe JJ should've cast jaden smith as jar jar's nephew.

Was wondering why so many people missed this or wanted it spelled out to them so quickly on the first movie of the new trilogy. It's a lot that have to set up and a lot that will be explained in the upcoming films. Seems like folks wanted everything spoon fed to them from the very beginning. We didn't learn everything in ANH either.

As far as people thinking ANH and TFA are the same film. It's kinda hard to set up a trilogy without the obvious showing us the characters and having them all meet up and set out to complete a goal. Hell, look at Fellowship and the first Hobit movie. Both trilogy's and both similar movies from the start.

Anyway, good explanation. It was a damn fine Star Wars movie.

>someone took her to jakku, force-wiped her memory
>and left her.

I agree with all your comments, I took away pretty much everything you did. But when did "force wiping" somoenes memory become a thing? We have never seen that before. My son sad the same thing but I don't think its a thing?

I can see if you take issue with a specific use of the force as a lazy way to explain things, but any time we're dealing with something mystical or extraordinary it lends itself to considerable creative license.

The execution of this may not hold up in every instance but it's not really fair to reduce the force to catch all deus ex status.

we've seen it used to read thoughts, pull memories, influence behavior, control actions. not a big leap from there to wiping someone's memory, especially a child.

>- speaking of awakening, again, guys, stop being dumb. those
>of you complaining that finn and rey defeated kylo ren too
>easily didn't watch the movie. first of all, finn-- who was a
>stormtrooper trained in combat--

He said he went one ONE mission. He said the mission he went on was his first. He didn't do shit. He's obviously not that battle hardened. His job? Sanitation.

And, as I fucking said prior to your seething, condescending geek rant, I may look at things differently after seeing 8 and 9.


held his own for about two
>minutes before nearly being killed.

Yeah. We saw. Kylo should have murked him with ease, injury or no injury.


>- again, the movie is titled "the force awakens." things that
>are awakened have to first be put to sleep. if rey was only
>learning about the force for the first time in this movie, it
>would be titled "the force discovered," but it's not. the
>force is with rey. she's been trained. R2 in sleep mode
>throughout the movie is a parallel for rey in sleep mode. my
>favorite scene in the movie is the interrogation between ren
>and rey. he tries to force-pull thoughts out of her mind, but
>what he doesn't realize is that he's opening a door that
>swings both ways. suddenly the things rey is capable of start
>coming back to her, and she starts force-reading him. suddenly
>she knows who darth vader is and what the significance of that
>is. a random girl from jakku. come on, guys.

Yes, EVERYONE THINKS SHE'S JUST SOME RANDOM GIRL WITH NO CONNECTION TO ANYONE IMPORTANT IN THIS UNIVERSE.

Yeah. Totally. Except... wait.. nobody is puzzled about her. We all know she's someone significant. Kylo is weak. I don't care what was awakened in her, he's BEEN woke, their fight should have been much more of a struggle even with her awakening whether or not he was a full fledged Sith at that point. We can debate the details of that, sure, but you can stop with the condescending bullshit because there IS a discussion there.

It's hilarious thougb, it's like you're totally unaware that your condescending nonsense isn't hitting anyone because nobody fits this bill. You're ranting and raving and yet nobody thinks she's just some random girl. Have fun "proving" you're "right" about obvious shit most people think is the case anyways.

You're not special. A little too attached to Star Wars, perhaps, particularly after reading that last paragraph, but not special.

It's a nostalgia cash grab movie decided to tickle
nerds into writing dumbass reviews like that to justify
the basic lack of a decent storyline.

The movie is shitty. But it's fun.

So let it be that.

But we don't need all of that dumb shit. So stop.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

it's safe to say literally no one here cares what you think about star wars. maybe pop in your after earth dvd and eat a snickers.

Literally everything you said is painfully obvious. And very little of it is being "complained" about.

It wasn't a very good movie. That's the complaint. Well, not even a complaint just a fact.

Fun? Sure. Cool new cast? Yes- talented, too.


But the film was booty cheeks.

The original characters were turned into deadbeats, losers, and cowards so the "movie could go back"

The movie is filled with magic, conveniences, astonishing luck, and new technology that will have to be ignored in the new films.

R2 magically wakes up...Al Pacino 2.0 is really alive, here is a throw away line to explain how/why....etc.

JJ Abrams is not a creative guy.

He is a show runner, a Brand Manager.

Or...He seems like that dude who manages a call center and makes it fun. He kind of gets his employees to forget they are working such a sh!tty job.

He made a fun ride. A theme park addition.

But it simply isn't a good movie.

I'm not sure how a rant explaining things to "slow pokes" that are obvious in the film is a defense of this trash.

everything i said is painfully obvious...

yet you're still wondering about stuff like how R2 "magically" wakes up. try a different franchise. star wars ain't your speed.

and nerds in denial are copping pleas. Ya'll set the bar a lot lower for the new one because JJ seems nice.

Cast is dope though.

It's just a shitty movie

Deal with it


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/star-wars-the-force-awakens-ultimate-faq-164511371.html

cuz that would be boring. If they want to supply a dictionary to explain shit for people who really care to know fine with me. Some of it might have been able to better explain in the movie but it also might have bogged it down.

It's 2.35 Anamorphic with masking.

First time: Arclight in Hollywood (2.5 hour drive): The image was stretched too wide. As far as I could tell the upper/lower parts of the screen were shown properly but everything else was too wide. A square looked like a (non-square) rectangle.

Arclight has offered that if I call on a day I want to see it again the manager will let us in, but without a way to book in advance it's fucking iffy to try to get 3 other people back to LA and deal with the uncertainty of "what if the manager isn't there?"

Second Time: The Lot theatre in La Jolla, CA. Masking was off so its missing top 1-3% of the picture and bottom 1-3% of the picture. Closeups seems way too tight. BB8 rolling on the ground shows his head only - but the ball beneath.

Manager knew immediately it was wrong - says they CHOSE to display it that way - because people would complain "why isn't the picture filling up the left and right of the screen?" if shown properly.

The Lot gives me a pass to come back and see the movie again (or another movie) at my convenience. Not thrilled about their decisions making.

Really thinking of not going back to the theaters again - too unreliable.

Even pirated movies are presented correctly.

8/10

oh and beautiful closing shot.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html

Warning: major spoilers for Star Wars: The Force Awakens ahead.

I loved the film. Seriously, I did. And yet it also has more plot holes than any film I've ever seen, which makes the reviews it's getting pretty irksome. Why can't we just admit that BB-8 is adorable, Finn is hilarious, Rey is badass, seeing Han and Chewie again was awesome, the special effects were tremendous, Poe is Soloesque, Kylo Ren is intriguing, and this movie makes absolutely no sense whatsoever?

Below are 40 plot holes in The Force Awakens. A few are trifling, but most are pretty damning. All of them were entirely unnecessary -- given the amount of time put into this film, the number of people who worked on it, and the amount of money everyone involved in it knew it stood to make -- and in this respect can be deemed unforgivable.

1. To blow up the 120-km "Death Star" in Star Wars, the rebels needed detailed plans for the base and a full-scale invasion force -- as well as the supernatural targeting skills of the most powerful Force-user in the galaxy. To destroy the exponentially larger and better-protected "Starkiller Base" in The Force Awakens, all that was needed was a janitor with no special skills, a few run-of-the-mill handheld explosives, a couple not very difficult X-wing blaster strikes, and some moxie. It also helped that the Millennium Falcon was able to "fly low."

2. The wily Han Solo loses track of his most prized possession, the Millennium Falcon, for more than a dozen years. He has no idea where it is -- in the entire Galaxy. When you lose something in your house, that's bad; when you lose something on your planet, you kiss it goodbye but pray for a miracle; when you lose something in the entire Galaxy, you just get on with your life. And yet, less than a minute after Rey begins piloting the Millennium Falcon, Han looks out the window of his freighter and says, "Oh, there it is."

3. Kylo Ren, a powerful Force-user, fights a light saber duel with an ex-janitor who has never held a light saber and yet (a) never uses the Force on his opponent, though doing so would have ended the duel immediately, and (b) barely wins the fight, suggesting that he is simultaneously one of the least strategic wielders of the Force the Dark Side has ever seen and, despite his training, absolutely terrible with a light saber. None of this stops Kylo Ren from designing and building his own, completely impractical cross-barred lightsaber.

4. Rey becomes nearly as effective a Force-user in a few hours as Luke Skywalker did in a few years.

5. Just minutes before Starkiller Base explodes, Supreme Leader Snoke tells Hux to go get Kylo Ren and take him off the planet. Unfortunately, Ren had recently (unbeknownst to Hux) run into the woods like a lunatic, leaving no information about his whereabouts. It's no problem, though, because Hux apparently has special Kylo Ren GPS and (one assumes) goes right to the spot in the middle of the forest where Ren is bleeding to death; otherwise, Ren would have died on the planet along with everybody else from the First Order.

6. The reason Ren was slowly bleeding to death -- instead of being dead by Rey's hand -- is that a massive a chasm had just miraculously opened up in the several feet between the two of them. Such bad timing for Rey! (Damn you, deus-ex-geology!)

7. Rey, who has never left her home planet since she was a child, can speak Wookie. Nobody can speak Wookie -- it's a running joke in the Star Wars universe. But Rey being able to speak Wookie surprises neither her, Han Solo, nor Chewbacca himself.

8. It's okay that Poe survived a Tie Fighter crash; after all, so did Finn. But has any film ever cared less about (a) giving the false impression a character has died, and then (b) having that character show up later with no one being surprised by it? Even Finn doesn't seem to care very much what the explanation is.

9. What is all this nonsense about the First Order only wanting to destroy the Republic because the Republic is supporting the Resistance? First of all, isn't the Resistance part of the Republic, not a separate operation? And if it is separate, why has the First Order only just now discovered the not-very-well-hidden fact that the Republic is supporting the Resistance? And if the Resistance is in fact a part of the Republic, why didn't Starkiller Base destroy the Republic's planets and moons much, much earlier? In other words, what is the status of the war between the Republic and the First Order at the beginning of The Force Awakens, such that this precise moment is when General Hux decides to simply press a button and destroy the Republic?

10. For that matter, why is it made to seem like the entire Republic is centered in just one star system? Let alone one whose planets and moons are all visible to one another with the naked eye? Isn't the Republic intergalactic? And why did the First Order choose to destroy all the planets and moons visible from Maz Kanata's home-world, but then initiate a conventional invasion of the latter planet? Why not just fire one more planet-killing beam and destroy Kanata's planet too? Because not doing that leads to a significant military defeat for the First Order that was totally avoidable. And another thing: if the Republic is in power, why is the Resistance the "Resistance"? What are they resisting? Isn't the First Order the "Resistance," as they're resisting the hegemony of the Republic? It's like someone on-set said "the Rebels need a new name," without realizing that the political situation in the Galaxy had totally changed since the events of the previous films.

11. Kylo Ren is the head of the Knights of Ren, but there are no other Knights of Ren in the movie.

12. Captain Phasma is supposed to be a big-deal character in The Force Awakens, if the merchandising and casting are any indication, and yet (a) how bad of a commanding officer do you have to be, how thoroughly inept in military tactics and strategy, to command the worst-trained fighting force in the Galaxy (the Stormtroopers hit even less with their blasters in The Force Awakens than in any preceding Star Wars film); (b) she's only in three scenes, in one of which she relays an order from Kylo Ren to initiate a massacre of innocents (hardcore!) and in another of which she immediately surrenders to Han, Rey, and Finn as soon as they encounter her and then does exactly everything they ask of her (pathetic!), making her character incomprehensible; and (c) in her third scene she effectively reveals that Finn's character is incomprehensible, as she notes that he has in fact been trained since birth to obey all orders, and has never in his life disobeyed even a single order until the day he decides to act like he's never been trained, indoctrinated, or dehumanized at all.

13. Really? Was there no previous order Finn had ever refused to execute? Was the slaughter on Jakku actually the first naughty thing the First Order had ever required of him?

14. Finn is an ex-janitor who goes AWOL from a Stormtrooper force numbering in the tens of thousands. Yet he is absolutely convinced, despite being someone of no importance whatsoever to the First Order, that he will be chased across the galaxy for having defected. Apparently, there's a premium on janitors in this quadrant of the Galaxy. Sure, Finn killed some people during his escape, but doesn't the First Order emphasize with every tactical decision it makes that it considers its soldiers thoroughly expendable, and don't they quite obviously have much bigger fish to fry during the events of The Force Awakens than to worry about Finn? Why wouldn't this be obvious to him?

15. Let's be clear: Han's son joins the First Order, and Luke's attempts to train new Jedis goes horribly wrong, and both men respond to these setbacks by, well, abandoning the Resistance to be utterly slaughtered by the First Order. Luke chills on an island, and Han on a smuggler's freighter, while untold thousands or millions of innocents are killed by the Order. Can we even comprehend how pissed Leia would be at both of them, and how cowardly Leia (at least the Leia we see in the first three films) would consider them both? And yet she seems only mildly peeved at Luke, and, despite Han implying otherwise, is almost entirely happy to see him when he turns up at the Resistance stronghold.

16. By the end of the movie, the impression is left that every single First Order soldier is dead besides Supreme Leader Snoke, General Hux, and Kylo Ren. That probably won't turn out to be the case, but the fact that we're given this impression makes the climactic discovery of Luke on an isolated island entirely irrelevant. After all, what need does the Resistance have of Luke now? Why should anyone care, at this point, if he's found? Because there are two bad dudes left in the entire Galaxy, one of whom only shows up anywhere as a hologram? And okay, let's say, for the sake of argument, that there are millions more First Order soldiers elsewhere in the Galaxy; isn't it strange that the film gives absolutely no indication whatsoever that this is the case?

17. Why does General Hux need to gather all of his troops just to tell them he's about to press a button and destroy the entire Republic? Can't he do that without a cattle-call of his entire army? Because it really ends badly for him, putting his entire army on the very planet he's about to make Resistance Target #1. No chance anybody saw that coming?

18. How pissy is it of Luke to (a) abandon the Resistance, and then (b) leave an obnoxiously coy trail of bread-crumbs to sort of (but not really) help people find him (at some unspecified time)? Why did he leave multiple maps out there in the ether, anyway, given that him having done so allows the First Order to find one of them?

19. Why wasn't the Resistance able to access R2D2's data archives at any point over the course of the many years Luke was gone? Why did they, instead, simply prop him up in a corner, when they had to know that he knew Luke's whereabouts -- as he always has in the past?

20. When the Resistance finally figures out where Luke is, after looking for him for many years, why do they send only Chewbacca and a random girl who Leia just met to collect him?

21. Kylo Ren has such a Force-enabled sense of where his father is in the Galaxy that when his father lands on Starkiller Base, Ren immediately exclaims to himself, "Solo!" Yet a few minutes later, when Ren is just twenty feet from Solo, he can't detect him -- and actually starts searching for him in the wrong direction.

22. How lame is Han's attempt to convert his son? Han knows Ren (Ben) has just participated in the genocide of literally billions of people on multiple planets and moons, and he basically says to him, "Hey, this just isn't you, buddy..." Of course his son kills him! What else was going to happen?

23. Why do Rey and Finn just stand by watching as Ren murders Han? They didn't know Ren was Han's son, so the drama on the catwalk must have looked absolutely bizarre to them. Why didn't they think to fire even a single blaster shot down at Ren (given that he was just standing there on the catwalk) until -- from their vantage-point, with the knowledge they had at the time, entirely predictably -- Ren killed Han?

24. Rey says that the Millennium Falcon is "garbage" and hasn't been flown in many, many years. Indeed, it's such junk, in her view, that she won't even board it when she's about to be ripped to pieces by twenty Tie Fighters. Then she gets on board and it basically flies perfectly. So much so that it's not at all clear why no one has been flying it, let alone why its owner (Unkar Plutt) hasn't tried to sell it at any point over the past dozen years -- despite the fact that Plutt appears to live in a hovel.

25. Why does Plutt offer Rey 250 times her usual pay for BB-8 and then, when she says "no," simply tell some of his heavies to just steal it? If Plutt is enough of a baddie to order it stolen at all, why not just steal it from the outset instead of first offering some random urchin the biggest financial windfall she's ever seen?

26. Maz Kanata is a friend to the Resistance. So why is she hiding Luke's light saber from them? Wouldn't she give them anything she could to help them find Luke, and doesn't it in fact turn out (as anyone could have supposed) that Luke's light saber is indeed helpful in tracking the last Jedi down?

27. How did Kylo Ren manage to get Darth Vader's mask into his little fetish den? This is only the most significant piece of memorabilia in the entire Galaxy. Not a plot hole per se, but still odd. And yet a similar question could be asked of Rey: how did she get that X-wing pilot helmet, and why doesn't she sell it for food? And why does Teedo (a fellow scavenger on Jakku) just give Rey BB-8 after capturing the droid, given that as an experienced trader Teedo would already know that (as Rey quickly discovers) BB-8 is worth 100 times more than any random pile of junk either he or Rey could ever offer Plutt? Now that is a plot hole.

28. How does Finn find Rey's settlement, given that the film makes clear that all Finn can see, after his Tie Fighter crashes, is endless dunes in every direction?

29. Who trained Rey to fight with a staff as effectively as she does, given that (a) she is an orphan with no friends or family, and (b) she has never been in a battle, but is, rather, merely a scrap-metal scavenger?

30. If Finn is such a good guy that he would try to save Rey the moment he saw she was in distress, doesn't it further call into question just how in the world the order to kill civilians on Jakku was the first time he'd ever had qualms about doing something the First Order had asked him to do?

31. Given that all Poe knows about Finn is that he's a First Order defector, why does he seem happy to see Finn just seconds after (and perhaps as) BB-8 tells him Finn is alive? There's no real reason for Poe to trust Finn -- or care about his well-being -- at all. Rather, he would assume, as anyone would, that whatever Finn did or did not do on Jakku, he surely had committed other atrocities for the First Order (and killed many a Resistance fighter) before then.

32. Kylo Ren takes his mask off pretty readily, and in pretty mixed company, for someone determined to wear super uncomfortable headgear perpetually.

33. Why does Kylo Ren assign just a single Stormtrooper to guard Rey, the most valuable prisoner in the history of the First Order?

34. How do the Rathtars on Han's freighter get loose? If he's just keeping them loose in the hanger, why don't they kill him when he's walking through the freighter toward the Millennium Falcon, or at any other time? And if he's got them chained up, how do they escape?

35. Why do the Rathtars immediately kill every human they encounter -- except Finn, who is randomly dragged off just long enough to be rescued?

36. Why are all Stormtroopers human (or humanoid)? If by the time of the First Order any clones being raised to be Stormtroopers are no longer clones of Jango Fett, why aren't there now Stormtroopers of every species as well as every (human) race? Why aren't there flying Stormtroopers from the same species as, say, Watto (from The Phantom Menace)?

37. If basically everyone in the Galaxy knows the Force is not a myth -- for instance, every single Stormtrooper in the First Order, who has seen Kylo Ren use it or heard tell of him using it; every single person in the Resistance, who knows the Resistance is looking for Luke Skywalker; every single person in the Republic, which was first established in part by the heroism of the Jedis -- how is the existence of the Force a total shock to Rey? Jakku is sheltered, but as we know from the film (cf. Lor San Tekka) there are many people on Jakku who either have seen the Force first-hand or heard first-hand accounts of it from visitors to the planet.

38. Is Supreme Leader Snoke actually a giant? Because if not, wouldn't him using holographic technology to make himself appear huge be a pathetic affection signaling deep-seeded insecurities? Even the Emperor never did that; he just appeared normal-sized or tiny. And if Snoke is a giant, how come we've never seen a humanoid that size in Star Wars before?

39. Why would the First Order spend untold quadrillions of to build the Starkiller Base, when a similar concept and design plan had twice before been destroyed with minimal difficulty by the rebels? And doesn't the recurrence of this tactical error for the third time in the (relatively) brief history of the Empire/First Order suggest that everyone in the First Order who was involved in the construction of Starkiller Base, at every level of management and authority, should be instantly shot in the head? (Of course, it's too late for that by the end of the film, but still.) How positively brain-dead is Snoke to have learned literally nothing from history? And for those who say that clearly a solar-powered Death Star is way better than a non-solar-powered Death Star, well, clearly not!

40. Is there any other film franchise in the history of cinema that would be permitted, by its fans and by critics, to recycle so many plot points? Luke destroys a Death Star; Lando destroys a bigger Death Star; Poe destroys the biggest Death Star. Anakin kills (the Jedi's) Younglings; Kylo Ren kills (Luke's) Younglings. Leia, Luke, Han, and Chewie end up in a trash compactor; Captain Phasma ends up in a trash compacter. Poe and Finn steal a ship they're not supposed to steal from a hanger; a young Anakin steals a ship he's not supposed to steal from a hanger. Luke watches Obi-Wan die; Rey watches Han Solo die. The Emperor and Snoke both appear (at first) exclusively via holograms. The Millennium Falcon negotiates tight spaces at top speeds in every film. There's a den of iniquity on Tatooine, and a visually identical one on Takodana (Maz Kanata's home). Rey climbs dangerously on the interior of a Death Star, as did Luke. Han gets shown up (as to military and technical smarts) first by Leia, then many years later by Rey. Obi-Wan disappears where no one can find him but Luke, then Luke disappears where no one can find him but Rey. Kylo Ren and Darth Vader use the Force for an interrogation. The First Order's General Hux is the same Nazi-with-a-British-accent as every Empire officer or petty official before him. Rey falls in love (we think) with a young scamp, as did Padme. The Resistance headquarters seems to be the same movie set as the Rebel headquarters from decades earlier. Poe is a crack shot, like Luke. BB-8 is the new R2D2. Kylo Ren is related to Han, just as Darth Vader was related to Luke.




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I initially began going point for point with this but most of it is a mess.

This guy actually listed Snoke's possible size as a plothole, and the fact that it rehashed a lot of other SW events as a plothole.

Some of these things certainly stretch the ability to suspend disbelief, but some of those things may ultimately play out differently after eps 8 and 9.

There may be some actual plot holes and valid criticism in there but he doesn't seem to know what a plot hole is.

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You post up some bloated, masturbatory, poorly thought out drek like that and have the audacity to sigh like that when someone throws an ounce of critical thought on it?

lol

In fiction, a plot hole or plothole is a logical inconsistency within a story. Such inconsistencies include such things as illogical or impossible events, and statements or events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.



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from your own brain and that’s telling.

First of all, I know the definition of a plot hole.

Second, you’re looking at that definition in a very rigid way and there’s a context to what does and does not constitute a plot hole starting with an objective view of the world you’re in. A true plot hole has to go against the rules set within the world you’re talking about.

So, to start with, pretty much everything about Star Wars as a whole is unbelievable. The force, lightsabers, all that shit.

Further, several things mentioned in that list are nothing more than questions the writer has.

A good example:

37. If basically everyone in the Galaxy knows the Force is not a myth -- for instance, every single Stormtrooper in the First Order, who has seen Kylo Ren use it or heard tell of him using it; every single person in the Resistance, who knows the Resistance is looking for Luke Skywalker; every single person in the Republic, which was first established in part by the heroism of the Jedis -- how is the existence of the Force a total shock to Rey? Jakku is sheltered, but as we know from the film (cf. Lor San Tekka) there are many people on Jakku who either have seen the Force first-hand or heard first-hand accounts of it from visitors to the planet.

A few things: how does he arrive at the conclusion that everyone in the galaxy knows the force is not a myth? That’s an assumption on his part and definitely NOT an assertion made in the film. In fact, THE OPPOSITE IS TRUE. Quite clearly, everyone DOES NOT know it’s real. So, this “plot hole” was based on an assumption made by the writer that was definitively NOT made in the film and yet he uses this factually baseless assumption as the basis for his criticism despite the film ACTUALLY showing us that not everyone does. He even explains part of this himself- Jakku is sheltered and to extrapolate further, Rey is very clearly more sheltered than the rest.

It’s like modern day religion; YOU, as a pastor, may claim to have witnessed the hand of god and heard his voice and seen miracles and all that but to those outside that particular circle, it’s just a bunch of stories. There’s absolutely NO reason this wouldn’t reasonably be the case in this film. The fact that this isn’t spelled out for you in crystal clear terms one way or another is NOT a plot hole.

It’s something that, at best, would be open for interpretation except that the film made it perfectly clear that Rey was unaware that any of this was real. She was clearly aware of the stories, but thought it to be a myth- much the way many believe the stories within the Bible to be a myth.

I mean, that’s just for starters. LOL@”don’t be mad” at your half assed cut & pasting, no critical thought having ass post.

And YES playa, although entertianing there are plenty of PLOT HOLES in the movie. You're the only one that can't see'em.

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In at least two posts in here. lol.

The simple truth is you're a basic ass dude with poor critical thinking skills who has no original thoughts of his own. Evidence? You run right to that "you just mad!" bullshit instead of forming an actual rebuttal to the information at hand.

You're basic and express your opinions via cut & paste of dumb shit other people wrote without actually reading it or, far worse, giving some thought to what you cosigned as your own opinion.

I'll bet money you're the simpleton on facebook that posts all the chain mail talking about Mark Zuckerberg is giving away his money to everyone who shares this post within the first three days on some "you never know!"

Or, more likely, the dude that posts a picture full of 1K bundles on that "share this to ten people and you will be blessed with wealth".

You're basic. Simple. Possibly dumb. But mad? Me? Over your low IQ cut and paste job regarding a movie I criticized myself? lol.

>38. Is Supreme Leader Snoke actually a giant? Because if not, wouldn't him using holographic technology to make himself appear huge be a pathetic affection signaling deep-seeded >insecurities? Even the Emperor never did that; he just appeared normal-sized or tiny. And if Snoke is a giant, how come we've never seen a humanoid that size in Star Wars before?

Maybe he is deeply insecure.
Maybe he's from a race of giants we haven't seen before.
Maybe both.

This isn't a plot hole, though.

Of course, we're dealing with a person who forms his opinions from memes and chain letters.

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Look, Cut & Copy Connie, your list was mostly trash.

I can go on and break down each of these non-plot hole, but you, Simple Sam, have shown you have zero desire to actually discuss any of this so why bother?

You don't even HAVE an opinion.
You don't actually HAVE a perspective.

Good, bad, right, wrong or indifferent, YOU HAVE NO ACTUAL CRITICAL THOUGHT TO OFFER.

Do you have a thought? An actual perspective? Can you articulate something that IS an actual plot hole and why it's such a burden on the film?

Are you even capable of that?

Cause right now you're Mega Meme Manny. Simple Sam. Basic Bill.

You're THAT guy. The one who likes and shares all the ".... a REAL man/woman/father/mother/etc is/does/will/won't (enter lame, basic ass phrase that sounds deep to an angsty 12 year old)" posts on social media.

Until you can demonstrate that you're not a vapid cut & paste meme robot, you'll get nothing but snark and ridicule on this subject from here on out but i'll be more than happy to have a perfectly reasonable disagreeable discussion on the matter if you can stop this YEAH, WHAT THIS OTHER GUY WROTE! bullshit.

>32. Kylo Ren takes his mask off pretty readily, and in pretty mixed company, for someone determined to wear super uncomfortable headgear perpetually.

At most it's an inconsistency, or it's just a nitpick. Could even be an intentional character choice for a character who clearly isn't comfortable with who he thinks he's supposed to be. It has zero to do with the plot of the film.

It's never explained, it's implied. But there is a lack of linkage to the mask and his own identity, as well as his development within the Force and his personality. We just accept that he needs a mask, when in fact the mask is what he's trying to live up to.
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ya'll need some chill pills it's STAR WARS

We've already established that you clearly do not know what a plot hole is.

Hell the mask thing doesn't even qualify as a narrative inconsistency.

It's just a question you and this other dude are asking, but that question bares very little weight as it is and there's more than enough information present to extrapolate reasonable conclusions, so.... yeah.

here's a direct and fairly durable rebuttal to the article that you posted:

https://twitter.com/reverendmatty


>http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html
>

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Before I play devils advocate on a couple of these (and ignore many because they either aren't plot holes, I kinda agree or they are plain stupid), I had one more issue (not a plot hole!)...

Chewie showing up in the Falcon to scoop up Rey after her fight with Kylo. How the hell did he know where she was? You can kind of explain away that Kylo was able to "Sense" Rey and that's how he found her but that's another discussion....

On we go...

>1. To blow up the 120-km "Death Star" in Star Wars, the rebels
>needed detailed plans for the base and a full-scale invasion
>force -- as well as the supernatural targeting skills of the
>most powerful Force-user in the galaxy. To destroy the
>exponentially larger and better-protected "Starkiller Base" in
>The Force Awakens, all that was needed was a janitor with no
>special skills, a few run-of-the-mill handheld explosives, a
>couple not very difficult X-wing blaster strikes, and some
>moxie. It also helped that the Millennium Falcon was able to
>"fly low."

There is strong evidence in the comics that Poe could be "force sensitive."


>2. The wily Han Solo loses track of his most prized
>possession, the Millennium Falcon, for more than a dozen
>years. He has no idea where it is -- in the entire Galaxy.
>When you lose something in your house, that's bad; when you
>lose something on your planet, you kiss it goodbye but pray
>for a miracle; when you lose something in the entire Galaxy,
>you just get on with your life. And yet, less than a minute
>after Rey begins piloting the Millennium Falcon, Han looks out
>the window of his freighter and says, "Oh, there it is.

I've seen it 3 times, but I still don't recall that exact dialogue, but there was some mention by Han that he was tracking the Falcon.


>4. Rey becomes nearly as effective a Force-user in a few hours
>as Luke Skywalker did in a few years.

We do not know her training.



>7. Rey, who has never left her home planet since she was a
>child, can speak Wookie. Nobody can speak Wookie -- it's a
>running joke in the Star Wars universe. But Rey being able to
>speak Wookie surprises neither her, Han Solo, nor Chewbacca
>himself.

I don't recall her ever speaking wookie. I think Chewie only understood her. Also, there was a shit ton of various species on Jakku where shes had to fend for herself for years as far as we know so she could have learned to speak to many of them.



>9. In other words, what is
>the status of the war between the Republic and the First Order
>at the beginning of The Force Awakens, such that this precise
>moment is when General Hux decides to simply press a button
>and destroy the Republic?

I thought that Starkiller Base had just became operational. I think it would have happened regardless if anyof the events with Rey on Jakku and Finn had happened.


>10. >And why did
>the First Order choose to destroy all the planets and moons
>visible from Maz Kanata's home-world, but then initiate a
>conventional invasion of the latter planet? Why not just fire
>one more planet-killing beam and destroy Kanata's planet too?

Because they wanted the location of Skywalker. Can't do that if the planet is destroyed.


>14. Apparently, there's a premium on janitors
>in this quadrant of the Galaxy.

This was actually hilarious. I lol'd

>17. Why does General Hux need to gather all of his troops just
>to tell them he's about to press a button and destroy the
>entire Republic? Can't he do that without a cattle-call of his
>entire army? Because it really ends badly for him, putting his
>entire army on the very planet he's about to make Resistance
>Target #1. No chance anybody saw that coming?

Because that's what dictators do. Because he believed there would be no more resistance after this move. Because there wouldn't even be anyone alive to tell the story of what happened to the missing planets and moons.


>20. When the Resistance finally figures out where Luke is,
>after looking for him for many years, why do they send only
>Chewbacca and a random girl who Leia just met to collect him?

There's obviously more to this that isn't meant to be spoon fed to you. This is a trilogy. If this was a legitimate argument why didn't lucas just tell us in E4 that Vader was Lukes dad?!


>21. Kylo Ren has such a Force-enabled sense of where his
>father is in the Galaxy that when his father lands on
>Starkiller Base, Ren immediately exclaims to himself, "Solo!"
>Yet a few minutes later, when Ren is just twenty feet from
>Solo, he can't detect him -- and actually starts searching for
>him in the wrong direction.

Maybe he was luring him out there. Maybe he got wind of what happened in a similar situation with Luke and Vader?


>26. Maz Kanata is a friend to the Resistance. So why is she
>hiding Luke's light saber from them? Wouldn't she give them
>anything she could to help them find Luke, and doesn't it in
>fact turn out (as anyone could have supposed) that Luke's
>light saber is indeed helpful in tracking the last Jedi down?

Did she even know prior to Hans arrival that anyone was even looking for him?


>27. How did Kylo Ren manage to get Darth Vader's mask into his
>little fetish den? This is only the most significant piece of
>memorabilia in the entire Galaxy.

Again, not the time to tell that story. The nod did its job to entice everyone to beg for more info.That's what good movies do. Except that this isn't some one off movie that they are hoping gets a sequel made to answer your question. There is going to be at least 2 more, you'll get your answer.

>28. How does Finn find Rey's settlement, given that the film
>makes clear that all Finn can see, after his Tie Fighter
>crashes, is endless dunes in every direction?

The same way that Luke, Han and Chewie find Leia in 10 minutes on a space station the size of a moon that would take you years to traverse in a straight line regardless of corridors and evading troops.

>29. Who trained Rey to fight with a staff as effectively as
>she does, given that (a) she is an orphan with no friends or
>family, and (b) she has never been in a battle, but is,
>rather, merely a scrap-metal scavenger?

She's a fighter, she lives on a shitty planet where everyone is out to have whats yours. That and there are two more movies on the way, so there's that.


>33. Why does Kylo Ren assign just a single Stormtrooper to
>guard Rey, the most valuable prisoner in the history of the
>First Order?

Because it wasn't some random trooper, it was fucking James Bond!

>34. How do the Rathtars on Han's freighter get loose? If he's
>just keeping them loose in the hanger, why don't they kill him
>when he's walking through the freighter toward the Millennium
>Falcon, or at any other time? And if he's got them chained up,
>how do they escape?

You didn't see Rey fuck up and open the wrong door? I think you should watch the movie again.


>35. Why do the Rathtars immediately kill every human they
>encounter -- except Finn, who is randomly dragged off just
>long enough to be rescued?

Because they were full, they had just ate the better part of two gangs.

>36. Why are all Stormtroopers human (or humanoid)? If by the
>time of the First Order any clones being raised to be
>Stormtroopers are no longer clones of Jango Fett, why aren't
>there now Stormtroopers of every species as well as every
>(human) race? Why aren't there flying Stormtroopers from the
>same species as, say, Watto (from The Phantom Menace)?

Can you imagine a stormtrooper helmet on Hammerhead, Ree-Yees, a Gammorean or Greedo? The Empire has loot, but they aren't making custom helmets for a face with a hammer on it, three eyes, a pig head or a long snout.

I loved TFA, but I'm hoping the new trilogy isn't so black and white (and to a degree, predictable). This article compares Star Wars and its universe to Game of Thrones and how GoT was able to blur the boundaries of morality. Lots of potential for that in Star Wars with the next two movies.

http://theweek.com/articles/595722/star-wars-should-give-power-dark-side

Who I was with for my second viewing came out feeling the same way I did after my first time seeing it: it was a complete rehash of ANH. Also one of my cousins was really less forgiving becuz he had read all the books that are now not canon so he had short patience with the pic from the get go

My aunt and uncle felt the same way. It was way too on the nose. Kinda lazy with the creativity

But like I said I did enjoy it way more on the second viewing. It will probably be my last time seeing the film ever tho

Obviously we're talking about obscenely, ridiculous, absurd
amounts of money, but that it only beat JW by one day is a
bit surprising

I would have expected this to completely demolish Jurassic World,
which had very little of the hype RELATIVELY speaking

I thought I read that this hasn't even opening in China yet, which if true, may be enough to completely demolish Jurassic World when all is said and done.

I imagine it will also be in theaters longer too.

I have no idea why that is - Jurassic World opened in China the same weekend as in the US.

Combine that with the fact that JW opened in the summer when other big films were coming out while SW isn't gonna have the blockbuster competition in the coming weeks, and that will give it more staying power.

I believe its gonna get more repeat viewings than JW did as well. I don't know any friends or anyone that saw JW two or 3 times in theaters. Im sure there had to be with as much money it made. I liked it okay for big dumb fun but was not anxious to see it again right after I saw it.

TFA I know many people who have seen it two or three times already. Some in this post who admit to not liking it have seen it twice already. lol This movie has a real chance at moving past Titanic and Avatar eventually.

>TFA I know many people who have seen it two or three times
>already. Some in this post who admit to not liking it have
>seen it twice already. lol

lol

night, zero money out my pocket and i already had a ticket to see it with my cousins christmas day...if not for those circumstances i definitely would NOT have seen it twice...altho im glad i did

it was pretty wack upon first viewing. and a lot of ppl are finally being brave enuff to admit that

>I have no idea why that is - Jurassic World opened in China
>the same weekend as in the US.

A dinosaur movie is kind of universal but Star Wars doesn't have the same cultural cache in China that it does in the West so apparently disney's has their work cut out for them.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/18/asia/china-star-wars/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/china-box-office-mojin-marches-851344?utm_source=twitter


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

54 mill for Sat/Sun

In 30 years all of the following happened.....

A New Republic was formed.
Luke started a Jedi school
Luke lost a Jedi school
A planet was taken over to become a Death Star
The First Order formed and rose to power on some Neo-Nazi ish

and some other stuff.
---------------------------------------


---------------------------------------

who the fuck paid for this new death star bro?

Somebody gotta show me the receipts, there might be a mortgage loan scandal at work and the whole universe's economy is about to go down.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Maybe they're selling space-coke.

There's an Intergalactic Banking Clan which was always controlled by Palpatine - first in secret and then openly. They were financing both sides of the Clone War but charging different rates to each side depending on what suited Palpatine's needs. I'm guessing that Snoke has the same control over them with the First Order, but it is in secret so the New Republic isn't aware of it.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

>Maybe they're selling space-coke.

and Carrie Fisher bought ALL of it

The New Republic is around - Mon Mothma is still leader.

The Empire that went to the outer edges of the Galaxy and continued on. Controlling entire planets can produce incredible resources.

So 1 year after Jedi the Empire and TNR fight a battle at Jakku.

TNR wins, they sign a declaration imposing strict limitations of the empire, which becomes the First Order, which then moves largely in the outer rim and the "unknown regions."

Mon Motha then decentralizes the military and transforms it into a strictly peacekeeping force.

Leia starts "The Resistance" to continue to fight the First Order. (this is why The First Order sees The Resistance as proof of TNR treachery and lying.)

So 30 years goes by and that's where TFA starts.

Would have been nice to ahev some in the crawl? Or a precrawl?Or some exposition?

(I still kind of like Heir To the Empire's plot a little betetr.)

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Heir to the Empire is no longer canon.

Here's the long, stupid lsit of Canon:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_canon_media

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

V.

Star Wars is iconic because of all the amazing imagery. lightsaber duels. X-wings. TIE fighters. AT-ATs that look like mech-brontosaurs.

aside from the great long shots, there's not much here in that department. hope to see much more creative settings, creatures, starships and weapons in VIII and IX.

They took the "practical effects" thing a bit too far in terms of not creating interesting and new visuals. That was one thing that Lucas did well in the prequels - he created completely new worlds that were visually stunning. The concept of a city being the entire planet in Coruscant with all the levels of massive towers. Naboo which was earth like, but also had an entire underwater world there. Mustafar with all the lava. Geonosis, Kamino, etc.

Also the aliens in the new film seemed pretty generic vs. the Lucas films which always brought something new.

Outside of the visuals though, I don't have any problems with the new film. I don't mind the recurring themes from the old movies. Some of those themes are what makes Star Wars Star Wars. Even the new death star served a purpose - it destroyed the senate and Republic fleet which put the "good guys" in the position of being the underdog again.

I initially had some plot issues with it in terms of how powerful Rey is, and some of the quirks of what happened, but most of those are because we don't know everything yet. We don't know some of the backstory of these characters and what they have really been through. Some of that is being saved for the future films, and some of it will be revealed through books and other media as far as the time between ROTJ and this movie.

So overall I'd give it a solid B rating.

and not only did they suck, they look horrible now on rewatches.

there's nothing about watching fish eat each other underwater in naboo that continues to tickle my imagination in any meaningful way, and kamino was a blank of grey swirls + bad CGI.

the world in TFA looked lived in and I dug that.


the lightsaber fights (and all the fights, really) were well choreographed, which is way beyond the OGs, all those fight scenes were laughably bad looking back.

the battles were ridiculous, watching poe fly overhead taking out tie fighters while finn is on the ground looked outstanding and real. there were no weird motion problems that brought you out of it.

there's gotta be a happy medium between practical effects and showing us new things, but I wasn't disappointed in what I saw. much more important to me that it's done well than just trying to break new ground


www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

1) the chasm between Rey and Kylo conveniently protected her from the temptation to give into anger and hate. That is, to me, the essence of Star Wars.

2) chewie and leia shared no moment of grief after the most important man in both of their lives is killed by his own son? That was to be THE emotional payoff of the whole film.

The pull between the dark and the light was a theme of the movie in terms of what Kylo was going through, and that scene at the end of the fight was a moment in which that pull was happening for Rey. The novelization of the film makes this more clear - she was using both the light side and dark side of the force in that fight. Specifically in the novelization Snoke was telling her to kill Kylo. So that casm didn't really rob is of the battle within her, but it saved the choice that she will need to make for later and I would expect the next films to explore that choice.

It's specifically interesting from me because Star Wars has shown at several points that a lack of thorough training makes one more likely to unknowingly use the dark side of he force when there is conflict. It happened when Luke faced Vader I'm ROTJ (though he won out by eventually throwing down his saber), it happened several times with Anakin in the prequels because he felt like he was skilled enough to take shortcuts in his training. They've even had it happen on Rebels with Ezra using the dark side.

I think they'll addres this during Luke's training of Rey if shown on screen, and at some point she's gonna have to make the choice. Could go either way.

As far as Chewie and Leia not embracing, that was REALLY weird. I looked for it on second viewing and they specifically showed him walking by her and them not even making eye contact. The only explanation I can think of is Leia was focused on Rey, they had a strong embrace that HAS to indicate that they know who each other are, whether she is Luke's daughter or if she is Leia's. Besides that, it was just strange that she wouldn't have went straight for Chewie.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

by himself right past Leia. He crossed directly in front of the camera in the foreground while Leia was standing there waiting to hug Rey.

Maybe he initially helped carry Finn down, but after that he walked to the building by himself, all slow and sad.

During the fight, you could tell that she was acting out of anger, an early step. But its always seemed to me that angry swings of a lightsaber are fairly innocuous until a life is taken.

A conscious choice to spare Kylo Ren in the film would just have been way more powerful to me. Even the way it played out was fine, had they piped in Snoke's voice and indicated that she had already made her choice. To me this needs to be revisited ASAP.

As for Chewie and Leia...that was just a fuckup. Revisiting that in VIII likely wont carry even a fraction of the emotional resonance it could have had, no matter whose daughter Rey is. Such a complete biff. Maybe im wrong, and there is some incredible emotional catharsis coming down the pipe, but i dont see how it could be framed to match the potential power of the acene we were denied.

sidenote: to me, the strongest evidence that Rey is Han's daughter was that brief moment of tenderness between Rey and Chewie in the cockpit of the Millenium Falcon. I liked that, because i dont think Chewie wouldnt have let *anyone* else sit in that seat. The second most convincing piece is that Chewie didnt go all suicide mission after Han died. Only devotion to the remaining members of the Solo family would have guided his actions the way they played out. Just an opinion of course.

that Leia and Rey embrace and they forgot about Chewie.

>sidenote: to me, the strongest evidence that Rey is Han's
>daughter was that brief moment of tenderness between Rey and
>Chewie in the cockpit of the Millenium Falcon. I liked that,
>because i dont think Chewie wouldnt have let *anyone* else sit
>in that seat. The second most convincing piece is that Chewie
>didnt go all suicide mission after Han died. Only devotion to
>the remaining members of the Solo family would have guided his
>actions the way they played out. Just an opinion of course.

and no one says anything.


is profoundly stupid to me.

it could be true.

I don't think it is, and I hope it is not.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

It could be possible that Leia is the only one who knows that Rey is part of the Solo/Skywalker family, and she didn't realize this until the end of the movie when the Falcon lands back at the Resistance base. They hugged each other so strong it would seem that there had do have been some kind of history there.

So Rey could have been born after Han left so he never knew her. Maybe right after she was born she was put into hiding or went off to train with Luke. I'm not sure of the timeline in terms of when the Jedi Academy attack happened, or the ages.

in the book chewie is carrying finn. and there's nothing attributed to the hug that suggest any connection more than just two people, and I didn't see anything in the movie that suggested a deeper connection.

chewie doesn't fly w/ her because he recognizes a member of the tribe, it's cuz he respects her skill. in the movie, I'd just assumed he was with han's plan to bring her on, so they're the crew now. that's what it is.





www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

to go find Luke. If she wasn't in the Skywalker/Solo family I don't think it makes sense. If Leia had just met Rey and they had no connection, I'm not sure why she would be sent to get Luke. It wouldn't have just been about her getting trained - their whole goal throughout the film was to find Luke to get him to come help the Resistance, from before they even met Rey on Jakku.

It's possible that Rey is a random, but with all the hints they dropped it would be a bit disappointing that they kept it a big secret throughout this movie and the couple years before the next one to reveal nothing.

So im biased towards ideas that are admittedly kind of dumb if they maintain any sort of character consistency

Normally that's not how things work. If that's how this franchise works now, I might just have to tap out now. When I was in elementary school I read the novelizations of Resident Evil video games but I was never told all the changes and extra inferences made in those books were canon. If they were, I'd have probably just read the books.


I'm not in this thread to argue about how disappointing a Star Wars movie (and, again, how fine an entertainment product it was for a trashy off-season summer blockbuster) The Force Awakens is anymore, but I'm genuinely curious if I'm supposed to know that stuff from the books going forward with the movie franchise.


There's already enough backstory getting filled in by frivolous cross media tie-ins, please don't tell me there's actual, scene-defining story beats getting left out of the movies as well.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Force_Awakens_(novel)

The novelization is the same as the movie but since it's written out, there are certain things implied in the film that are right there in black and white in the book.

It's not that you need to read the book or that they are putting different stuff in the book, but some of the hints and clues as to what is happening and some of the motivation behind what is happening is given background in the book.

Specifically in this case, when watching the film it felt like Rey was using some of the dark side during that fight, and the novelization confirms that feeling.

What if they switch it up in VIII to turn Ben Solo back to the good guy and Rey turns to the dark side? I don't think it would work but might be about the only shocking twist that wouldn't be expected. Could be the reason they kept showing Kylo Ren take off his mask and show his emotions tho and also showed Rey fighting a little more fiercly. idk, not sure if would like that as the Ben Solo character seems more the whiny type that would be tough to root for.

Shit 3 outta 5 at best
Saber fights were among the worst in series history

For Kylo ren to be some kind of future master
He sure wasn't good

No way in hell anyone who never even used a LS
should've stood any chance. He should have been bodied in 3-4 moves

It's better than ep 1 maybe even with ep2
But I think that's about it

It was average

in fact, he was about to get killed. Kylo was suffering from a major blast, so he's not even close to 100%, and Finn is of course a trained fighter. those fights make perfect sense, unless you skim over facts.

Until this rewatch i actually remembered liking it.

Force Awakens is MUCH better

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

they really are terrible. Ep. 2 gets some credit for not being Ep. 1, but it truly is awful. Shit, even emo Kylo Ren can't be as hard to watch as emo Vader.

Not quite

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Slightly hokey, sure. Actors not meeting the emotional level require by the scene, sure.

But OTOH

"Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo; so long ago when there was nothing but our love."

NOT close to that lol

and other classics like:

Anakin Skywalker: You are so... beautiful.
Padmé: It's only because I'm so in love.
Anakin Skywalker: No, it's because I'm so in love with you.
Padmé: So love has blinded you?
Anakin Skywalker: Well, that's not exactly what I meant.
Padmé: But it's probably true.

That was the worst

And worse than Anakin and ole girl



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIvn1h-71IE

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

The Star Wars movies have mostly been about the 'tides' of the Force ebbing and flowing between light and dark as certain circumstances change.

For instance, in Empire Strikes Back, Vader, as machine, slices Luke's hand off and Luke becomes like his father. (Dark overtakes light.)

In Jedi, Vader is touched by his love for his son, Luke and saves Luke from the Emperor. Luke's last moment with his father was with Anakin as a man. Their relationship is restored and their relationship has come full circle.

The parallels between The Phantom Menace are established when Anakin is mentored by Qui-Gon, just as Obi-Won mentored Luke in Episode IV.

Also, Anakin destroyed the ship with the spherical bridge in Episode I by using torpedo which curved like Luke in A New Hope.

Granted the only real surprise for me was when Han died, but even that 'mentor' dying could be a parallel to Obi-Won dying in A New Hope.

So, these movies always will have the same themes as far as dark and light, mentors / fathers and sons, people finding the courage to discover their true power and the lengths people go through to end their pain.

I understand people's complaints that the new stories aren't 'original' enough, but the retreaded ground seems to be the main tradition of these movies.

But

Rey and Jakku could not have been more like Luke and Tatooine, altho at least this time i hope someone had the good sense not to hide her out on her home fucking planet.

"I cant stay and help. Good bye." "JK IM BACK!"

Escape from the Death Star

Game changing data hidden inside a charismatic little astromech

Leia and Rey captivity and torture

"Hey remember how we blew up that first Death Star? Just do that!"

The plot device recycling was my issue...not the themes

>>Rey and Jakku could not have been more like Luke and Tatooine, altho at least this time i hope someone had the good sense not to hide her out on her home fucking planet.

the only similarity is age and desert....they're both good with droids and flying things, which doesn't seem to be that unique of a skill.


every other thing is different.

Luke only wanted to leave.

Rey only wanted to stay.

Luke is being raised by a family.

Rey has no family.

Luke is a little snotty nosed whiny piece of shit.

Rey is not.



www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Yes luke was a lil prick and Rey seems to be much more mature

But it seemed to me that Rey wanted to leave, for the same reasons Luke did: adventure and excitement (even tho a Jedi craves not these things)

Fear that you might miss your familial rendezvous and having to help your uncle with the next water harvest arent similarly powerful motivators, but they are similarly not their own personal desires. You could tell as soon as she put on that X Wing helmet that she wanted out.

>Yes luke was a lil prick and Rey seems to be much more
>mature
>
>But it seemed to me that Rey wanted to leave, for the same
>reasons Luke did: adventure and excitement (even tho a Jedi
>craves not these things)
>
>Fear that you might miss your familial rendezvous and having
>to help your uncle with the next water harvest arent similarly
>powerful motivators, but they are similarly not their own
>personal desires. You could tell as soon as she put on that X
>Wing helmet that she wanted out.

eh, putting on the x wing helmet didn't say that to me. even if I take it that way, wanting a little more excitement isn't really a character trait.

she had big desire #1 - someone either comes back for her or stays with her. Abandonment issues, in big capital letters.

Luke wanted out, and was agitating for it at every step. rey had to be talked into it, even after she was already away from jakku / on the millennium falcon.

www.engadgethd.com - the other stuff i'm looking at

Rey was looking up at that ship flying away not wanting to leave, but being reminded of her family leaving her and wanting them to come back.

Yeah she was interested in flying and spent time reading manuals and playing in simulators because she wanted to be a pilot. But the film made it clear that her biggest desire was for her family to come back. She was offered her dream job of working for Solo on the Falcon which was legendary in her mind, but turned it down because she wanted to go back to wait on her family.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

It was a shitty retread to make money

Not a terrible movie

But stop making excuses for it with these lame appeals
to tradition and "that's the way its supposed to be"

Its unooriginal and hokie

That is what Stars Wars and probably will be moving
forward

https://vimeo.com/151719063



*CROCKER*

word booty.

HSUBAKCITS

www.smokingsection.net



http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/chowyunskinny/Gold%20Chef/iron_chef.jpg

I mean, it's a cam copy, but shit....

The cam copy is horrible.

>I mean, it's a cam copy, but shit....

Star Wars has won the following 2015 prize,

It's a bad movie but you like it anyway movie award. Congradulations to The Force Awakens. I was gonna give Furious 7 the trophy.

Episode 7 is fun. I might go and see it again. The mythos is very thin. Imo this episode was the same as New Hope. I really am not that excited about this reboot. I predict that episodes 8 and 9 will fall flat.

The Force Awakens
Grade B+

.

.

This was the first time I saw it projected properly, so +1.

This time around I noticed how Kylo was *VERY* interested in Rey that I didn't quite pick up the first time. Kylo definitely knows (or suspects) something about her the entire movie. When he throws the temper tantrum and the guy says something about AND a girl helping them escape he says "What girl?" and lays hands on the guy.

I'm also wondering why they call Luke the last of the Jedi? Maybe it that Luke and Liea are related is only known by Han, Lei, Luke, Chewie and not the bigger universe.

I'm still confused if Starkiller base was a planet or a machine.

I also caught the line from CP30 about R2 not having all the imperial archives - but that's exactly what he does have. I don't know why he woke up at just that point - he had those in him the entire movie.

>This was the first time I saw it projected properly, so +1.
>
>This time around I noticed how Kylo was *VERY* interested in
>Rey that I didn't quite pick up the first time. Kylo
>definitely knows (or suspects) something about her the entire
>movie. When he throws the temper tantrum and the guy says
>something about AND a girl helping them escape he says "What
>girl?" and lays hands on the guy.
>
My theory here or how I took it when I watched the movie for the first time was that he knows who she is, they couldve been trained together by Luke at some point. I think he either was the one who wiped her mind and hid her, or she was hid by someone else (Luke) and this is his first time seeing her since then.

>I'm also wondering why they call Luke the last of the Jedi?
>Maybe it that Luke and Liea are related is only known by Han,
>Lei, Luke, Chewie and not the bigger universe.
>
Liea is force sensitive she's not a Jedi. Just like Maz who is force sensitive but not a Jedi.

>I'm still confused if Starkiller base was a planet or a
>machine.
I think its a planet that either was already a planet at once and they just built a base that takes up the whole planet.

>
>I also caught the line from CP30 about R2 not having all the
>imperial archives - but that's exactly what he does have. I
>don't know why he woke up at just that point - he had those in
>him the entire movie.
I thought R2 had the other part of the map but was programmed to turn on from sleep mode once Rey was near. He didn't turn on till Rey arrived to the base. Her awakening causes his awakening.

Since the Blu-ray dropped, I've re-watched and this just goes others to show how to make a proper sequel to a beloved franchise.

finn talks too much.

actually they all kinda do.

the end.

Finn is definitely Force-sensitive. I know there's been plenty of discussion about it back and forth. There's evidence usually brought up with him being able to do anything at all with a lightsaber, him being able to beat the Stormtrooper conditioning to realize that what they were doing was wrong, Kylo sensing him during the attack on the village, Mas giving him the saber in the first place and trusting that he'd be able to use it, etc. All that evidence has been argued, but my conclusion was still that he was not Force sensitive because if he was I'd think the film would state it more directly.

Until now.

I rewatched last night and noticed that during the Starkiller base attack on the Hosnian system, Finn heard voices screaming in pain BEFORE he even saw the attack in the sky and before they were actually killed. You can see it clearly here, at 1:36 in the video:

https://youtu.be/-HmWDdmTAE8?t=96

He's running up the steps to get on the ship, hears all the voices screaming and turns around to see what it was. At that point the lasers from the Starkiller Base are still heading towards the planets but they haven't hit yet. What really makes it clear is in the next shot you see the lasers heading towards the planets and in this shot the screams are cut - so we are meant to just be hearing what Finn heard. Then when the weapon hits the planet you can hear the actual screams.

So Finn heard them through the Force, right before it actually happened. Very similar to Obi-Wan in Episode IV hearing millions of voices crying out when Alderan was destroyed.

This can't be an accident, because the visuals and audio are lined up very clearly. But I never noticed it until last night. I hadn't heard anyone else talking about it, and I'm a HUGE Star Wars nerd that listens to podcasts and reads forums, etc. When searching I did find a couple people who talked about it on Reddit right after the film came out, and in the Youtube comments on the above video someone brought it up.

But in my opinion this is CLEAR evidence that Finn has Force sensitivity. It is probably latent and he isn't even aware of it and hasn't been trained.

(By the way, this scene is the biggest plot hole in the movie. There is no way that Han and Finn should have been able to see that weapon hitting the Hosnian system from another planet light years away in real time.)

As a matter of fact, I think both he and Poe are Force sensitive. I think that's where the subtitle comes in to play. I think the Force is awakening in more than just Rey.

most blogs and forums I've read have people thinking he's not Force sensitive. Stuff like this is way more simple than we make it as fans sometimes. Just watch the movie and what do you think? I think they dropped plenty of direct hints that he is Force sensitive. That video above is DIRECT proof IMO.

As far as Poe, maybe. There wasn't enough of him in the film for me to make that call although that shot of him knocking out 10 tie fighters could be a clue.

But to your point - I have been seeing clues from the LucasFilm Story Group and also from some of the new canon they are releasing with the Rebels cartoon, Rogue One, and TFA, that further defines the idea of the Force that everyone has a degree of force sensitivity, just some more or less than others.

Pablo Hidalgo from the Story Group has talked about this, and basically relates force sensitivity to talent that someone is born with. He used Bruce Lee as an example. Bruce Lee was born with elite level talent and combined that with years of training and hard work to become legendary. A Jedi Knight would have to be born with elite level talent (high force sensitivity) and combined this with years of training and hard work to become a Jedi Knight.

If someone was not born with the elite level talent that Bruce Lee had, they could still train in martial arts, and if they worked very hard and were dedicated, they could end up being very good. They would never be the legend that Bruce Lee was because they never had that potential. The same could be true in Star Wars with the Force. Someone like Donnie Yen's character from Rogue One could have been born without the elite level force sensitivity that a Jedi would have, but since he believed in the force and practiced and worked hard, he may have developed the ability to do some things that a trained jedi would be able to do.

You could also have someone born with some Force sensitivity but were never trained, and because of that they could do some things like pick up a lightsaber or sense certain things in the force without having been trained.

It will be interesting to see what develops with all the new Star Wars material coming out.

Thats a good point. I think im on your side of the argument now. Damn never even really though of that during that scene. Makes sense

I thought the first 45 minutes were fantastic when I first saw this, and they still hold up; the imagery (Rey rappelling down a fallen Star Destroyer, Kylo force-freezing a blaster shot in mid-air) and new character possibilities were extremely exciting at the time.

seeing Poe, Finn, Kylo Ren and Rey interact over that first hour is just depressing in retrospect. especially Finn -- John Boyega's emotiveness and ability to deadpan should've been a main attraction over the next two films. a Stormtrooper with no family connection can pick up a lightsaber and find out he's super force-sensitive? what a great idea that we should kill immediately!

unfortunately the movie climaxes during Rey and Finn's escape in the Falcon. the rest is mostly boilerplate Star Wars narrative, weighed down by the films necessity to thread the Skywalkers into every arc.

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IG @erichrigonan