Same rules still apply, even with 1 episode left in the season

NO BOOK SPOILERS WHATSOEVER

NO SPOILERS


Then:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=78juOpTM3tE

Who stabbed a baby?

V.

can't trust those bastards...

but no poast lol. i was even more outraged and in disbelief that i couldnt express my outrage and disbelief. goddamn it the Starks keep gettn fucked over and over and over.

and as the owner of a Siberian Husky, seein Robb's direwolf go was extra painful :/

V.

not sure why the GoTs3 post was singled out and somehow lost? everything else seems to be intact?

V.

..on several different boards, as well as individual replies to some threads that survived

we're fortunate that more posts weren't lost in the fallout

the activist board still isn't back online.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

>the activist board still isn't back online.

Fuck, seasons are way too short, 10 episodes not enough, I need more!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s

..djawadi's done a masterful job of orchestrating an incredible accompaniment to this extraordinary series.

*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

-It will be interesting to see how all these reunited people interact after all this time away, esp. w/ Jamie & Cersei.

-Sad to see Jon run away from Ygritte. I thought he was dead on arrive but luckily he stuck it out. I'm sure they'll reunite one say ( at, I hope so).

- Arya has begun her lifetime worth of killing. I can imagine her and The Hound becoming a traveling duo of death as she slowly turns into a realm renowned assassin. At least it sounds cool in my head.

- Despite my many likes of this show I must say that many of these side story are quite boring and repetitive. Joffrey is bitchy as always. Theon cries and gets tortured the entire season. Sam's story was quite dull w/ the except of his encounter with the White Walkers. Some will argue but Daenerys' story has always been pretty bland to me. It's not because the lack of action but moreso because I knew the entire time that she'd get her way (Not because I've read any of the books. I haven't read a word). It just seemed inevitable that'd she build her army and kept her core group intact. I just wish she'd do some real fighting after three seasons of slow building (next season seems to be the beginning of the fight).

- Despite all the bitching above Tyrion's story has stayed engaging the entire season (series). Rob's short lived reign was interesting to watch (esp. his hot wife). Jamie and Brienne's journey was amazing from start to finish. And as mentioned before, Arya's cross country odyssey was possibly the best (and most tragic) tale of them all this season.


Anyone have predictions for next season?

is there a major character of color in the novels?

He writes old white man things.

save for momoa. They coulda made the Dothraki or the Quarthians Asian, but Nope!

Martin's a literary genius, but, whether intentional or not, he's got the same world view as your typical old white man.

on the show.

but she'd be the whitest thing anywhere......i never thought of it as her liberating the brown people, but whatevs....

folk she just freed from their shackles?

Lol

cheesy as fuck

even though it had it's moments, this whole episode just seemed... off.

i think ep9 was kinda hard to top tho, so ep10 was just wrapping up all the separate threads. but still coulda been done a bit better. the dialogue in particular in some instances was uncharacteristically cheeseball. or self-evident.

V.

>cheesy as fuck
>
>even though it had it's moments, this whole episode just
>seemed... off.
>

But it all felt like set up for next season.

And then to end again with the mother of dragons in some faraway place wasn't cool. I was waiting for this episode to comment on the red wedding.

My only question is how did samwell get the blade back?

> I was waiting for this episode to
>comment on the red wedding.

So did Tywin and Tyrion.

>
>My only question is how did samwell get the blade back?

He found more than one.

Bolton just made sense of the theon storyline this season. Frey just did assholia again.

I liked the episode just not the REM ending.

----------------------------
Same as it ever was!

Tyrion was great, as was Tywin, their scenes together are usually my fav from an episode, but that line ^^^ made me pause the tv....i even liked tyrion and cersei's scene ....Jamie coming back felt thrown in there though, but i guess they wanted to get that part of the story over....

....i forgot who had Theon, but it was a cool lil setup to reveal it.....i also liked Roose seeming to ponder the seriousness of what he helped do while Frey is still delusional about the karma of it all...one man boasting while the other knows it's really no laughing matter at all...

the more i see her, the more i like Gilly, even though she doesn't look quite how i pictured her....

...jon deserved to get shot, so i wasn't mad at that at all...

...poor Sansa, she was growing close to tyrion, but that's all gone for now....

...i wanna like Stannis, but i still don't have a reason other than that he's working with the Onion Knight....

...oh and them boys better not underestimate blackfish

although it didn't seem to hold true to their usual interaction, as played out on the show. the tywin ive come to know doesn't seem like he'd care whether tyrion approved of his methods or whether he understood how he'd sacrificed for the family. good scene though.

was TERRIBLE?

felt like hodor wrote that shit.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
"I don't read pages of rap lyrics, I listen to rap music." © Bombastic
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

All for the sake of the Lannister name. And Tywin telling Tyrion the day he was born he wanted to throw Tyrion is the sea was cold blooded. He's such a shitty father.

BTW, Greyjoys are a bunch of lames at the end of the day. They remind me of the orphans in the movie "The Warriors". Also, Who's more cold and cryptic, Balon Greyjoy or Walder Frey? I swear these are some miserable men.

Sam's story line was wack the whole season. The less they showed, the happier I became. This "I'm too weak and scared of everything" has worn thin in my eyes.

How can you NOT like Davos? He's such a loyal guy and always keeps it real.

the final scene's in the first 2 seasons were so powerful... the dragons chilling with naked dany and then the white walkers... to go back to a dragons last scene was kind of weak, they could have ended on a crazier note, especially since we will be waiting 15 months until next season

I think they were trying to wash the taste of the Red Wedding out of the viewers' mouths so they don't cancel their HBO subs, ha

"Oh you wanna act all bad? You must be tried. Time for bed!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place, then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace" © Common

and lol @ everyone's faces when joffrey thought he pulled his card.

I thought he was gonna destroy that kid on the spot. instead he just sends the king to bed without even raising his voice.. once again calmly showing him who really runs shit

Tywin's alpha moves on Joffrey have been some of my favorite moments this season.

He is brutal, smart and does not give a fuck lol He has been shitting on Joffrey the whole season

He is so fucking BRUTAL with it and I feel so bad for Tyrion.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Sometimes I contemplate moving to a warmer place, then the lake and skyline give me a warm embrace" © Common

- but understandable to set the table for next season.

- If you'd been paying attention to Robb's board throughout the season you already knew who had Theon. The Bolton Flag is a man flayed in the X, exactly what Theon has been on the entire season.

- Theon's sister is ready for war, Asha is a great character and i'm glad that she's back. Her father on the other hand is a terrible man, but he feels the same way that Tywin does. Name over sentiment all day everyday. Even when Theon's Dick was in a box homie didn't even trip about it. They took Alfie Allen's manhood, that shit was wrong!

- Arya is gangster, that is all.

- I felt terribly for Sansa, this was the FIRST time other than just Joffrey being unnecessarily cruel to her that i've felt truly bad for her. Like she has started to open up to Tyrion and this is what happens, man that was terrible.

- Walder Frey will get his, Bran was telling a story about a man who hurt someone in his own house he promised sanctuary to, yea something gotta happen. I haven't read that far in the books, so i don't know but I feel like there has to be some retribution for the Red Wedding.

- Tywin and Tyrion was sort of our of character for Tywin, but also really fucking great. He showed you what we've all considered to be missing all season; his heart. The two of them tear the house down.

- I love how much glee Joff took out of the idea of serving Robb's head to Sansa, that shit was foul fam. Then Tyrion and Tywin put his bitchass in his place. I love it.

- The Jaime and Brienne of Tarth story is a good one, I'm almost salty they've cut it so short.

- Dany mother of slaves is not my favorite, but her story is probably the most compelling. We've watched her grow, become a leader, become shrewd and now she's the mother of all brown slaves. We'll see how much more she has to go through before she gets to Westeros.

>- I felt terribly for Sansa, this was the FIRST time other
>than just Joffrey being unnecessarily cruel to her that i've
>felt truly bad for her. Like she has started to open up to
>Tyrion and this is what happens, man that was terrible.

on the contrary, i don't feel much empathy for sansa. this is the same child who snubbed her own siblings and abused her privilege as the daughter of the lord of winterfell. she was a brat (not unlike joffrey) before her father lost his head.

they've actually taken great strides in showing contradiction in most of the lead cast for this series and i enjoy that.





*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

family being murdered. Y'all Weird.


**********
"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

Why I still fuzz with the Lesson
http://open.spotify.com/user/brothersport86/playlist/3DhEhilho77Z0UCPbJlEJf

..children can often be brats, sansa was well beyond that.

i also hold no empathy for the families of royalty in this series, mainly because most of their wealth & stature stem from pillaging those less fortunate.

like many people today, they speak of any opposing nation as parasites and mere obstacles to their every whim. truth is, their entire lives are built on the backs of servitude from others.

i don't wish harm on sansa or her family, but you'd be a fool to ignore the obvious irony shown throughout this series. left to their own devices, they are all monsters.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

Until they give me a moment of her reflecting on her ways prior to all this, I could care less about her from here on out.

...that the 2nd to last episode always has some climactic plot point/scene. The season finale is usually the reaction to whatever happened previously. So my personal expectations for this last episode were low.

There's incredible dialogue and set pieces for next season.

The "action" happened in the penultimate ep, but this one was equally as satisfying in other ways.

..is that most people tend to lose patience when it comes to translation for the big screen

its amazing to see the shift from reverence to disdain regarding fans of this series. its no surprise that every episode that features massive gore & killing is met with great praise, while the few with more dialogue & forecasting are far less well received.

while the season finale revealed less physical play than the preceding ep, it was full of riveting dialogue.

witty banter
loathsome plotting
splintered debates
fractured foundations
even a few gems finally taking shape

chess moves made by masters.

the battles shown in this episode wage between warriors who duel with sharp tongues instead of steel. in this regard, this show is remarkable. yet, we still hear/read the complaints from those who call for blood every week.

all of this simply reminds me that most people don't have the patience for reading. as much as we love sweeping scenes of action, we should be careful not to disregard the calm before each storm.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

.
.cuz all they're really looking for is violence nudity and a few witty lines....but this show is much more than that....

But I was still underwhelmed. I think the problem is that they went out with such a cornball scene. Cut that and swap it out for something else and you might be on to something.

..it wasn't the first corny shot, as i'm sure it won't be the last

still, there was depth in that moment. the concern shown in daenerys face as she waited at the gates of the city hasn't been seen since she first encountered khal drogo. as commanding as she's been all season, you finally get to see something never before revealed in her character:

hope

she knows her true power lies in the people who believe in her.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

She told them outright: Your freedom is not mine to give.

Here we have a character who strives to do right by people, who seeks to build her kingdom with those who freely choose her rule, and who gives dignity to those who were abused.

Yes, it plays into a white stereotype with a motif we've seen all to often. I personally didn't catch those vibes here, though I immediately saw the correlation. I don't view a white person freeing all the darkies, I view it as a person was once herself subject to tyrannical rule freeing others as she had been freed.

Remember her brother? He once told her he'd let every Dothraki and their horses fuck her to get his crown before essentially selling her to a barbarian for an army. She's trying to earn her throne by proving herself *worthy* of such position, not merely holding on to a birthright like the entitled brat her brother was.

There's depth and thoughtfulness in this character freeing slaves that really doesn't justify being reduced to a basic Dances With Wolves, er, Dragons tale. Sure, we're all sick of *that* story, but this one has meat on it's bones.

Personally I loved this episode. Every scene increased my appetite for next season very well. A LOT happened. Is this not enough?

-Asha Greyjoy setting forth to rescue Theon?

-Joffrey reminding us how sadistic he is and getting sonned by his Hand and Treasurer- his grandfather and uncle, respectively?

-Jaime and Cersie reunion?

-Brans story about how the gods do not forgive harming a man while a guest in your home? For those who say they didn't address the red wedding, this was the first thing we saw.

-Arya prison shanking someone she hears mocking the murder of her brother and mother?

-Barratheon bastard gets set free?

-Everyone gets warned about the White Walkers?

-Jon returns to Castle Black?

-Roose understanding the weight of what they've done while Walder maintains his arrogant defiance to it?

The whole episode was a series of cliffhangers that wrapped up this season while setting up season 4 nicely. The dialogue was well written and biting in all the right places. I saw someone make mention of the Jamie and Cersie scene being "thrown in", but it was perfect. More was not needed, though it would have been nice. It's not as though we won't get to that story next year.

It was a satisfying end, really.

..even my conditioning has been conditioned © chameleon street

a lot of people take issue with it, mainly because they had a short-sided view of slavery.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

It's incidental despite being used as a key element of Dany's character development. With the depth and magnitude of this story being what it is, there is absolutely zero need to delve into that subject with any great detail. Why take the long view on that topic when there's about a thousand elements far more pressing and pertinent to a story that is already so vastly detailed?

This isn't the property people should use as an example of conditioned conditioning. If anything, near complete lack dark skinned/minority characters outside of the slaves and the "savage" Dothraki is worth discussing. Those are depicitions of minorities worth discussing.

A young woman embarking on a journey toward her rightful place as Queens through an essentially humanitarian path, however, is barely worth mentioning.

So, the overall depiction of minorities on the show=worth discussing
This one particular element is not.

..i still think this arc is on the right path

the fact that she is the only character in this series pursuing a true reign through pledge is more than worthy (esp considering her bloodline & family history).

does this make her more righteous?

not necessarily. still, you have to admire that approach.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

>does this make her more righteous?

The only one left with a righteous ambition or even "legal" claim for the throne aside from Dany is.... uh... well.... the Baratheon bastard. She actually wants to rule in a way that benefits her subjects. Can anyone else say that?

Stannis is far from righteous, as evidenced by his desire to murder innocents on his way to the throne. There's been nothing to indicate he has a desire to rule in a way that benefits anyone but himself and his methods are questionable at very best because of it. Sure, he's been taken in by Melisendre's charms, but he's had wise and reasonable counsel and ignored it. His tactics have no pure motive behind them.

Joffrey is a vile, evil king without a legit claim despite not knowing it.

Tywin is a megalomaniac and wants power more than anything. His actions against the Starks are justifiable in that they are at war with one another, but his BEST motive for anything is self preservation. And then there's the question: what has he done for anyone else that wasn't mere political back scratching?

Dany is the only one angling for the throne for reasons and in ways that aren't entirely self serving. What genuine good has anyone else done for anyone? Margery is the only other player in this game to show a hint of concern for the people she may one day rule, even if it was little more than a blatantm obvious and mundane political gesture.

No, Dany has shown genuine care and concern for her people during her ascension. Despite needing an army to do her conquering, she gave them a choice at a time when she had zero means of reneging on her promise to free them. What could she have done? She gave them the choice to serve under her. Perhaps they were progammed to be warriors and did so out of their own code, knowning no other way and perhaps she knew that. Her treatment of them has still been stellar. The slaves she just freed, on the other hand, aren't soldiers. Mind you, she did this after turning down a considerable financial offer to leave that would have served her quest for the throne exceedingly well.

She is infinitely more righteous in her quest than anyone else currently pursuing the crown.

maybe if they didn't end on it, i wouldn't have felt so cheesy, and i think it was more than it just being such a contrast to what we saw last week. it was just poorly done.

they covered so much ground in this episode, it's hard to feel like they did some of these stories justice...

We didn't NEED more from the Jamie scene, but we have waited 2 years for him to get home. I've been wondering what that scene would be like all season. i also kind of wanted to see Tywin's rage when he saw the stump.

someone mentioned in the GD post that as dope as the scene was with Theon's sis gathering the killers, it would have been good to get at least one scene this season showing her concern before getting his dick in a box sends her over the edge

this is also the first season i watched week to week. i watched the whole series a week before the season finale last season. so the whole sloooow burn/explosion formula drives me crazy sometimes.

it's just hard to appreciate all this set up for next season when much of this season felt like set up for this season.

Wrapping up storylines in this world isn't really possible. Everything has been fluid from the start and will always be IMO.

..in regards to modern programming and how we choose to view shows

someone watchin' week to week will have a very different experience than anyone who choses to watch an entire season all at once.


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

it seems like the perfect show to take in as a complete story that way

on the flipside, when i went back and re-watched the first two seasons, i realized i had missed so much.... some even crucial details...

and as much as the pacing frustrates me this season, i love being able read what people have to say about individual episodes, or being able to chop it up with friends and co-workers every week.

but yeah, def different experiences, and i'm sure that varies depending on the show. right now i'm watching the shield for the second time. the first time was a few years back, i watched the whole series in a month. i can't picture watching it any other way

And this set-up finale episode wasn't particularly successful at making me hyped for the next season.

The first season finale did an excellent job: the "King of the North!" scene, Tywin sends Tyrion to King's Landing, the Night's Watch heads off to go beyond the Wall, Dany gives "birth" to her dragons, etc.

The second season did not a particularly good job. The only thing's that worked well was the stuff with Theon, Joffrey and Margery getting engaged, the appearance of Khal Drogo, and the march of the Others.

This episode worked better than the second, but not nearly as well as the first. I liked the Roose/Frey scene, the stuff with Sansa and Tyrion, Tyrion and Tywin, Arya and the Hound, and Jon Snow. However, I don't really care about Yara going to save Theon. Jamie returning to King's Landing oddly fell flat. Stannis deciding to disengage from the War of the Five Kings was anti-climatic. The lack of the Tyrells felt all wrong, especially considering how important they'd been to the season. And Dany crowd-surfing was an uninspiring way to end the season (though I was fine with her speech).

If they want to keep using these final episodes as "set-ups", then that's cool. But if the emphasis isn't going to be on advancing the plot through action, they've got to be more consistent in their execution.

when cersei said Joffrey was joking about serving Robb's head to Sansa, my first thoughts were "Bitch, he's not joking"

and the earnest insanity on Joffrey's face when he said "Yes I did." and the whole council's eye rolling..now with Varys putting his whispers behind tyrion, is there a chance Joffrey get's Nero'd?

Tywin's "If I have to get up from this chair" stare at Joffrey. then sent the lil nigga to sleep.

Any combination of Tywin/Cersei/Tyrion coming ohsoclose to discussing how dysfunctional they are. Fantastic work by all three the whole season in any of their combinations and discussions on the matter.

Sansa juuuuuust thinking she could make something of this laugh kicking it w/ tyrion, and then a glance and tears.

I love how, everything we've seen for 3 years mattered, and then didn't. Melissandre say what you want about her, she's about her business. "This king shit stupid. We all gonna die if we don't get it together."

Davos the anti-Ned. his super principles seem to keep him alive, though he should be dead behind the shit he's done this yr.

Arya's 1000 yd stare. Fuck.

That last Dany bit was hokey. I wasn't upset, but that was definitely on some "not like this" shit.

i can dig it

.

he seemed happy hearing the echo.
Happy Hodor.

V.

range, man

...http://www.facebook.com/Hodor.Hodor. lol @ everything he posts only coming with a one word description.

V.

Grey Wind's head being sewn to Robb's body?? Were people confused as to what that was?

..the way it was shot & edited, there were no close ups

anyone who missed it should've picked up on the convo overheard by arya & the hound, though


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

i think it was left purposely vague in terms of clarity of the image, cos it had the desired effect of 'wait..is that...? no...freal??". n then ye its confirmed with those soldiers talking about it.

MAN the world of men is full of unending SCUM in this universe lol.

V.

i'm surprised they included it

but yeah...i'm good
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/06/09/game-of-thrones-future/

ive heard book 4 will get 2 seasons

ive also heard that books 4 and 5 will get a combined 3 seasons to tell their mostly concurrent stories

we'll see

... Several main characters aren't even in Book 4. This series has done a great job, to my understanding, jumping around a bit in the books in order to present things in as concurrent a timeline as possible, reminding us what certain characters are presently up to, where they are, etc.

No chance a Dinklage-less season approaches. They'll do it concurrently, one way or another.

yeah...i dont agree


http://twitchfilm.com/2013/06/destroy-all-monsters-hbos-game-of-thrones-is-better-than-the-books.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TwitchEverything+%28Twitch%29




The show's better than the books. What seemed like a creative impossibility only two seasons ago is now as plain as the lack of nose on Tyrion Lannister's face. By the conclusion of season three of Game of Thrones, which has been the marvelous series' most marvelous season yet, series showrunners David Benioff and D.B. Weiss are doing a better job telling George R.R. Martin's story than George R.R. Martin did. Spoiler warning: they're going to beat him to the end, too.

(Martin takes a producer credit on Game of Thrones and has written one episode per season of the show. He also provides guidance to the production team. The showrunners, Benioff and Weiss, retain the final creative word on the production of Game of Thrones, and I will regard them as the architects of the series' overall strengths and weaknesses.)

There are easy and obvious ways that screen adaptation can trump the written word. It is altogether more viscerally disturbing, for example, to follow a young boy up a castle wall only to come upon a brother and sister having a doggie-style fuck, than it is to read about it from the boy's (limited, underage) point of view. But there are also significant areas where the word will always win, particularly in worldbuilding; the producers of Game of Thrones can imagine it for you wholesale, but when you're reading a book and picturing the realms of Westeros in your head, you're getting top-market retail.

At ten episodes per season, and a budget that is record-breaking for television while still being a pittance next to, say, those Hobbit films, the first season of Game of Thrones evinced a kind of narrative strangulation that made it a promising, but highly frustrating, watch. Season one hit all the requisite beats from Martin's book, and set the paradigm for seasons to come (watch out for episode 9, every single time), but man, it felt frumpy. I remember looking at a shot in the third or fourth episode, where two armoured soldiers had been placed conspicuously on a hill in the deep background, and realizing that they were likely the only two armoured soldiers the episode's budget could afford.

Budget isn't storytelling, though, and the first season allowed Benioff and Weiss (and importantly, their revolving team of directors, most notably Alan "Thor 2" Taylor) to figure out how and where to spend their limited budget to conjure the larger Westerosi world, while simultaneously breaking in their characters, which is where the real money is anyway. "The North Remembers," the first episode of the second season of Game of Thrones, is a marvel of character development and worldbuilding, dancing across the Seven Kingdoms like a Braavosi swordsman to reestablish all of the series' major characters, plotlines, and locales. The episode essentially served, brilliantly, as a one-hour dramatized version of the show's deft opening credits, and announced that Game of Thrones could, and would, be as big as Martin's vast ecosystem of people and places needed it to be.

As big as needed, then, but only as big as needed. This is where Benioff and Weiss's adaptation begins to win when compared against the novels. The show's writers are cutting a cleaner line through the story than Martin did. Admire the heaps of blubberous fat that have been excised from Bran's discovery of his warg powers, a throughline which develops incrementally over the course of two or three of the books, but which manifests, in the series, in a single merciful episode.

In a masterful sequence from "The Rains of Castamere," Bran spontaneously mind-walks into Hodor, Summer, and Shaggydog, while Jon Snow's conflict with the wildlings bubbles over outside, uniting three of the sons of Ned Stark through action and clever overlapping construction. The edited scene brings Bran, Rickon and Jon together in a manner that the novel strives for and fails. The television writers also smartly push the final beat of Jon and Ygritte's separation into the following episode, teasing out the schism and allowing Jon to prove that he does, at last, know something.

Of course, much of all this is the natural improvement that comes of being a second draft. Benioff and Weiss have the foresight of some 8,000 existent pages of the novels, from which to survey and critique Martin's narrative strategy. Martin himself is likely just as aware of the flaws as the rest of us. At this point I think we all need to divorce ourselves from the disturbing popular delusion that content creators of any stripe (be they Martin, Tolkien, Lindelof or Lucas) begin a fantasy project of any scale with a complete picture of where the story will go.

But Martin has no goddamned idea where he's going, as is clear from books 4 and 5 of A Song of Ice and Fire, which expend so much narrative energy (and page count) keeping fruitless plotlines spinning that reading them becomes somewhat like getting stuck in the recursive time loop from Star Trek: The Next Generation's episode "Cause and Effect."

Benioff and Weiss, on the other hand, do know where they're going - they're even reported to know where Martin's ending will ultimately take the characters - and in addition to cutting away the mountains of wasted narrative that entomb A Song of Ice and Fire's back half, they are in a position to make smarter choices about character. So, for example, we get a single character (Gendry) standing in for the multiplicity of Baratheon bastards that populate the novels, which doesn't just give us the opportunity to hang out with Joe Dempsie's abs for more than an episode or two, but means that when the Red Woman is threatening to burn him up like a leech to ensure Stannis' ascension to the Iron Throne, we actually give a fuck.

What all of this amounts to is a kind of breathability in the television storytelling that doesn't exist in the books. We're allowed to watch the characters behave in more complex, human ways than the simple rote of the novels. My favourite episode of season three is "Walk of Punishment," the one where Jaime loses his hand, and the first episode of the show to be directed by one of the showrunners themselves (Benioff). It's a damned weird episode, because it evinces a sense of casual, even frivolous, invention around the text - with beats like the Small Council's game of musical chairs (a literal game of thrones, if you will), or more memorably, Bronn and Tyrion grilling Podrick about the powers of his Magic Penis.

The series has a kind of metatextual sense of humour about itself that isn't entirely earned, and is based in part on the secret language of the fan base, but which makes for an altogether more engaging storytelling style. It's a sweeping TV story that can feel surprising and emotionally rich, even to those of us who already know what is going to happen. The casual handling of the fully-built Westerosi world in "Walk of Punishment," alongside the confident delivery of the novels' required plot points, seemed to me to suggest that the showrunners of Game of Thrones had moved full-time into Martin's world and announced "We're in charge here now." (Or, if you like, "The Mad King is dead!") The hard cut to a rock n' roll cover of "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" as soon as Jaime's hand comes off at the end of the episode was a punky middle finger to the bearded Old God who created the song of ice and fire.

(We've come to a point where the only thing I miss - besides Khal Drogo, of course, on a weekly basis - is Martin's attention to the "prequel" story, which the author was able to pay over the course of his five novels and which - Jaime's bathtime confession notwithstanding - is largely missing from the television series. Although, based on Sunday's numbers, if HBO has any sense they're already commissioning a mini-series about Robert's rebellion and the fall of the Targaryens right now.)

In a way, Benioff and Weiss are winning the game of thrones because they are, essentially, writing the fan-fiction version of the novels. This season, for example, their addition of the Theon torture plotline is much more than a simple gambit to keep Alfie Allen in the show (whereas Theon vanishes for the entirety of books 3 and 4). The invented plotline also allows the showrunners to force contrition into Theon's mouth for all the awful shit he did in season two. Sure, it qualifies as shameless license taken with the source material, but on a fan level, it's not just enjoyed, it's positively required: once Theon successfully unseated Joffrey as the Biggest Asshole in the Seven Kingdoms, the audience deserved some catharsis. Like Daenerys freeing the slaves, benevolent Benioff and Weiss prove mother to us all.

This is all perhaps best exemplified by Benioff and Weiss' most significant deviation from the books: Talisa Maegyr, wife of Robb Stark, who is plotted as a major character in seasons two and three, and who does not exist in Martin's work. Talisa takes the place of Jeyne Westerling, an offscreen wife in the novels, who is shotgun-wedded to Robb after a one night stand. Now, the one night stand thing is agreeable enough as a line into Robb's character, and it pairs Robb with his father Ned, who also had an indiscreet evening outside his vows of honour; but if Robb doesn't much care for his bride, then neither do we.

Talisa, on the other hand - deliciously portrayed by Oona Chaplin - makes us care. Benioff and Weiss write her as a compelling addition to the Stark camp throughout his war on the Lannisters - third part of a triangle which was previously only a double act between Robb and Catelyn - and then add further stakes (as if they were needed) to the Red Wedding by placing Talisa in the fray.

Here, the synergy of the series' adaptation of the books reaches a superb, if nauseating, peak: an invented character, avatar of an invented love story, pregnant with an invented baby, stabbed in the invented belly, all in the midst of a glorious (and largely faithful) adaptation of the novels' single greatest narrative turn. Robb must watch his wife die - as do we all - and Talisa's bleeding stomach becomes the visceral, cinematic incarnation of the death of the King in the North's whole mission. It is also, in ruthlessly effective visual storytelling, the death of our faith in the Starks' ultimate victory over the series' ostensible antagonists in the overarching story; it's the death of our belief that Game of Thrones will be a nice story that treats us the way we expect fantasy to treat us. All with a character whose name has never graced a single printed page.

At this point, Martin should hand the last two novels over to Benioff and Weiss - or as will more likely be the case, we should just wait for the series to wrap up the saga while the mooted sixth and seventh books in A Song of Ice and Fire remain a cluster of disorganized notes somewhere in the tower of George R.R. Martin's Santa Fe home. The TV show has the baton and isn't just running with it; it's soaring, like Dracarys, up into the clear blue sky.


Destroy All Monsters is a weekly column on Hollywood and pop culture.


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When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
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You cannot hate people for their own good.

>The show's better than the books. What seemed like a creative
>impossibility only two seasons ago is now as plain as the lack
>of nose on Tyrion Lannister's face. By the conclusion of
>season three of Game of Thrones, which has been the marvelous
>series' most marvelous season yet, series showrunners David
>Benioff and D.B. Weiss are doing a better job telling George
>R.R. Martin's story than George R.R. Martin did. Spoiler
>warning: they're going to beat him to the end, too.

while i don't believe the show is necessarily better than the books, i certainly agree with the sentiment that they've done a better job of telling the story. mostly, because they've found a fluid manner of allowing the series to flow concurrently (something martin doesn't really do in his style of writing). with so many characters & details, its a bit of a challenge to keep pace with everything. anyone who's short on memory will be lost reading the books.

*oh, and lol @ this:


>>going to look at the series in comparison to its source
>novels. I will not reveal any book plot information that has
>not already been revealed by the television series. I will
>mention the fourth and fifth books in Martin's series in a
>general sense but will not discuss story. As with all other
>pages of this site, DO NOT post book spoilers in the comments
>for this piece. They will be deleted, and we will be angry.]


*skatin' the rings of saturn*

..and miles to go before i sleep...

i think they can prove themselves with the coming books vs series

vs the current moment... portion of the series the are up to
i want to see what they can do with the truly challenging material
this part was easy
coming up though?
yeah MAKE the audience stay interested

so far they've followed G RR M's lead
plot, rhythm of climaxes 3/4's of the way into the story line
with small adjustments here and there
people are still disappointed after the climax episode
which still follows geroges rhythm


from here on in the rhythm gets alot harder to stick with

lets see if they can improve on that
then i'll be impressed
still give backstory, keep the characters relevant
sans the ommpfh
and oh noes
that george technically set up the rhythm and pace for
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

You learn so much more about the plots and innerworkings. The histories make so much more sense. Even if you are just learning about The Mountain, you know how brutal, accepted, and terrifiying he is while he is really a minor character in the show.

i think the series has room to surpass it from this point on

what made the first three books so rich with minor characters
has bogged them down a bit in the latest two

so im in a its not yet better
but maybe soon it will be
ill wait and see
mode
~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

since it's generally agreed that the last two books are kinda meandering with very little plot advancement.

If they are able to keep the quality of the television show as high without having Martin's book as such a great crutch, we would have to give it to them.

>If they are able to keep the quality of the television show as
>high without having Martin's book as such a great crutch, we
>would have to give it to them.


~~~~
When you are born, you cry, and the world rejoices. Live so that when you die, you rejoice, and the world cries.
~~~~
You cannot hate people for their own good.

to its film or tv adaptation

depending on what you wanted to get from the book and/or movie (and what you think about the omitted last chapter).

Not saying the book was bad in any way, but no punctuation is fucking brutal.

I'd say The Godfather I&II, Fight Club, No Country for Old Men, The Shawshank Redemption, The Shining (I didn't love the book) and Blade Runner tho.

they are all great films so i could see that

the final books in the series.

That is, he gets with writers from the show and work with them to outline the remainder of the story and he writes them based on that outline.


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"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

Why I still fuzz with the Lesson
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V.