http://www.deadline.com/2013/05/robert-downey-jr-avengers-marvel-negotiations-fight/

‘Avengers’ Cast And Stingy Marvel Ready To Rumble Over Sequel Cash & Strong-Arming

By NIKKI FINKE, Editor in Chief | Tuesday May 7, 2013 @ 2:33pm PDT

EXCLUSIVE: Robert Downey Jr is set for another huge payday from a mega-hit Marvel movie, this time Iron Man 3. I’ve learned he’s already made $35 million from the actioner which grossed $680 million worldwide in its first 12 days. He should exceed his biggest payday to date — that $50M from The Avengers which I’ve learned was more like $70M-$80M now that the film is all in. But it’s really Avengers 2 where he’ll clean up big-time — if he wants to reprise the role. He’s hinting to some media it may be time to retire Tony Stark. And saying to other outlets that Marvel better show him more money for Avengers 2. ”I don’t know,” he said on The Daily Show. ”I had a long contract with them and now we’re gonna renegotiate.” (“You are Iron Man! You are!” cheered Jon Stewart.) I’ve learned that Marvel and therefore owner Disney are going to run into big trouble on that sequel because the upfront pay, backend compensation, break even points and box office bonuses aren’t pinned down yet for several big stars and castmates. This is major hurdle which Walt Disney Co Chaiman/CEO Bob Iger hasn’t even mentioned to Wall Street or shareholders although he’s already been hyping Avengers 2 for more than a year now.

First and foremost Marvel does not have Downey in place yet. ”They need him, and they don’t have him. He’s got a lot of leverage,” one insider tells me. Much less so Scarlett Johannsen (paid to pop up in Marvel movie after movie), Chris Evans (whom some sources say made his deal for Avengers 2 when he signed for Captain America 2), Chris Hemsworth (a much bigger star now than before and unsigned for Avengers 2), Mark Ruffalo (whose Hulk role already was cast 3 times and could be the most vulnerable), Jeremy Renner (probably grateful for more exposure), Samuel L. Jackson (Scarlett’s doppelganger) among others who were paid pittances for their first movies, not much better for the sequels, and are counting on at least $5 million upfront and better back ends for Avengers 2. That means much better than what Marvel claimed was Avengers’ break-even point: a whopping $1.1 billion in global grosses. (“If Avengers wasn’t profitable until then, why would you make it?” one rep pointedly asked Marvel top execs Kevin Feige and Louis Esposito.) In a business where studio accounting is known as fatal subtraction and even worldwide blockbusters are still supposedly in the red, Marvel and its famously frugal CEO Ike Perlmutter still give new meaning to the term stingy. I’ve learned that one reason why The Avengers was nominated for only one Oscar – Best Visual Effects – in the 85th Academy Awards contest was because Marvel refused to pay for an awards season campaign for the picture. And even when Disney offered to foot the bill, Marvel still wouldn’t budge. (Yet the Academy Of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences assembled the cast onstage to create buzz.) Here’s how one exec describes any negotiation with Marvel: “I wouldn’t say it’s brutal. It’s uncompromising, not mean or draconian. The fact is this is the reality of the world we’re living in right now.”

But The Avengers cast are ready to rumble with Marvel for the Avengers sequel slated for a May 2015 release. “Some received only $200,000 for Avengers and Downey got paid $50M. On what planet is that OK?” an insider tells me. CAA represents an overwhelming majority of the Marvel stars and is trying hard to keep the negotiations out of the public limelight and media headlines. But that may not be possible with some reps blaming the studio for ’scorched earth’ tactics past and present. ”Marvel has created so much animosity by strong-arming and bullying on sequels already. It’s counterproductive,” one source tells me. Says another, “I’m sick of Kevin Feige telling me again and again how Marvel is ‘reinventing the movie business’. It doesn’t work like this. They’re reinventing business, period.” I’ve learned Marvel already has threatened to sue or recast when contracts and/or options are challenged. That prompted a few cast members to respond, “Go ahead.” I hear Hemsworth especially wasn’t anxious to go back into that arduous diet and training regimen and subsist primarily on egg whites for Thor: Dark World which hits theaters November 8th. I also understand that Scarlett Johanssen told castmates she’s “not going to cut her quote” for Marvel’s Avengers 2. The actress as butt-kicking operative Black Widow in The Avengers and Iron Man 2 is wrapping Captain America: The Winter Soldier and has a whopping 8 options total.

Already a lot of brinkmanship played out for Captain America 2 and Thor 2. Calling it the “weirdest experience”, one rep still can’;t believe Marvel offered “only a $500,000 raise and then would pay another $500,000 when the movie hits $500M. Are they out of their minds?” When it was pointed out to Marvel that Hemsworth already had received $5M for his starring role in Snow White And The Huntsman, the studio shot back, ”I don’t know why you’re complaining when Marvel only has hit movies.” To which the response was, “He’s happier working at a place like Universal.” After hard-fought bargaining, Chris Evans for Captain America 2 and Chris Hemsworth for Thor 2 wound up with deals still weighted on the back end but at least with attainable break-even numbers and small upfront guarantees and box office bonuses.

The issue going forward is how many of the Avengers stars and starlets are still bound by early agreements and longterm options which Marvel can continue to exploit individually. To counter, I’ve learned the Avengers cast are becoming united behind Robert Downey Jr who is seen as the “leader” – like “a big brother” in the words of one rep - for all the younger actors in the ensemble. “He’s the only guy with real power in this situation. and balls of steel, too. He’s already sent a message that he’s not going to work for a place where they treat his colleagues like shit,” one source explains. Another rep tells me, “I have four words for Marvel – ‘Fuck you, call Robert.’” As Downey himself has said publicly about his $50M-plus payday, ”I’m what’s known as a strategic cost,” adding that Marvel is “so pissed” he earned that much. At this point also, no one is talking Iron Man 4 yet but it’s hard not to anticipate. Don Cheadle (who took over the role of James Rhodes in Iron Man 2 after Marvel pushed aside Terrence Howard) predicted there’s “potential” for a 4th installment. “No one has been specific about what that might look like or what the story could even be,” he said. “First we have to see how this one plays and if people have an appetite for it, and then we’ll figure out if there’s a way to convince Robert to come back and do another one.”

Some reps tried to go straight to Iger in hopes of discussing renegotiations since Disney purchased the multimedia empire in 2009 for $4.3B - but were rebuffed. “Wait, that’s Marvel. You need to talk to them. I can’t have this conversation,” Iger replied, thus totally distancing himself. Other reps hoped Walt Disney Studios Chairman Alan Horn would be helpful. But Horn made clear that Marvel greenlights their own movies and only “coordinates” with him. Besides, he tells reps, “Marvel is doing such a great job running itself.” (In fact Horn himself only met Marvel CEO Ike Perlmutter last fall and told a pal about their get-together. “It could not have gone better. We had a meal. I was very impressed with his directness. We’re the same age: how could we not have a good time together?”)

The sad truth is that both Iger and Horn are scared stiff of Perlmutter and want to steer clear of the inevitable nightmare negotiations. Reps predict Ike is “going to create a lot of drama and going to want to prove a point and not look like he’s going to get run over”. Says one out of frustration: “I’m so bent out of shape by this asshole. He now works for a public company so I don’t understand how he can keep hiding behind the curtain.” Easy, because the Israeli-born and reclusive Perlmutter, worth $2.4B, is Disney’s third largest individual shareholder. (He had been the second biggest shareholder but that changed when Disney added Star Wars to its empire and handed George Lucas a ginormous compensation package. Disney’s top shareholder remains the Steve Jobs Trust.) Disney never dared hope that The Avengers would reap $1.5 billion in worldwide box office revenue, the third highest global gross ever. Yet no castmember has ever heard from Ike. True, Kevin Feige phoned the cast that weekend opening, but it was a first. And Iger did pick up the phone to congratulate filmmaker Joss Whedon who recalled to Deadline recently: “He couldn’t have been sweeter. He said ‘This wasn’t about the other movies — you did this’.”

Acknowledging “I’m doing okay” compensation wise, Whedon reportedly has a “really rich deal” worth an astronomical $100M for several pics, consulting work, a put pilot at ABC, and many other elements that effectively take him off the marketplace for years and years, one source tells me. But even Whedon admits that “Marvel can be very cheap” and believes the reason the cast aren’t ”getting giant quotes” is because of ”the element of the opportunity here for something that is both popular and very human, and usually you have to choose as an actor”. But Whedon does see the potential contract hardball as “an issue”.

Here are the pertinent parts of that interview:

DEADLINE: Marvel is notoriously cheap and some of the Avengers cast will want more money for the sequel. How could that affect Avengers 2?
WHEDON: I’m not going to comment specifically because I’m not privy to that sort of stuff and I don’t think it’s my place to talk about. In general terms, yes – Marvel can be very cheap, God knows. They can also be sensible and frugal. They have a very small infrastructure and they’re not heaping this money on themselves. I don’t know a producer who’s done more and is paid less than Kevin Feige. I think that it’s an issue but it’s part of a bigger issue, which is there was a time when there was a crisis in the acting community where stars were getting $20 million and character actors were disappearing as a concept. There were no middle class actors. It was suddenly bit players and Jim Carrey, and that was it. Now the studios have gotten to a point where they’re like, “Do we need that star?” With what they’re able to to digitally and the way they create franchises there’s a little bit of a feeling of, maybe we can eliminate the actor – not totally and not totally cynically, but I’ve literally heard people at the agency say, not about Marvel, “This studio is eliminating the middle movie. They’re not making dramas or prestige pics or anything that isn’t either a franchise or a Paranormal-style found footage”. I think that changes the landscape for actors because really good actors are interested in doing a franchise because they need something.

DEADLINE: So are you worried about losing talent over these kinds of disputes?
WHEDON: I feel good about Avengers because I feel everyone who took it got something to sink their teeth into. They weren’t hung out to dry. It’s not a soulless piece of work. It may be inept in some places but I meant every word. Marvel distinguished themselves by going after good actors, writers, and directors who were unexpected choices. One side to that is they don’t have to pay them as much. Me, Favreau, Branagh, James Gunn – we don’t have giant action quotes, but we’re all filmmakers who want to do something with a giant action movie instead of just accomplish it. And the actors, from Downey straight on through, they only went after the people who could get it done. So how come they’re not getting giant quotes on this movie? There’s the element of the opportunity here for something that is both popular and very human, and usually you have to choose as an actor.

DEADLINE: A movie makes a billion dollars and an actor is looking at their contract for the next sequel…
WHEDON: And they’re probably going to mention that.

DEADLINE: You don’t think this could conceivably create any problems for Avengers 2?
WHEDON: I don’t, because that would make me sad and I tend to be a bit Pollyanna. I tend to think these roles can alter the course of a career. Not that Mark Ruffalo needs this or is in pursuit of this. That man will always work. But it doesn’t suck. We had an amazing time making the movie and that kind of recognition doesn’t hurt, if it’s not with Marvel or the next guy. It’s useful.

Who knows. The sequel will happen, even if Marvel has to pay BIG bucks to the stars whose contracts are up (RDJ especially, but Hemsworth and Johansson if they are unsigned now). Evans, Ruffalo, and BAMF all have deals in place, so they might be screwed. I don't think they need Renner, but he might cost more now. For that matter, I don't think they need Johansson. They need RDJ, Evans, Hemsworth, Ruffalo, and BAMF, at the very least.

After Avengers 2, for Phase 3, is when I think Marvel is going to hit some big obstacles. RDJ might only have one more Iron Man role left, and if that happens, perhaps others follow him. I can't imagine Evans signs another long term deal, same with the others. It'll be interesting. There will always be Avengers movies at this point, but probably not with the actors/actresses.

___________________________________________________________________________________
And at that moment, I realized some of you aren't doing this for the shits-n-giggles that you're claiming

They'll get paid... But honestly, the only one who is TRULY important is RDJ. The rest are replaceable, if it really came down to it and Marvel was THAT stingy.

But this is just public negotiation. And RDJ has been not-so-subtly talking about it for weeks on the press tour.

When the article complained about no Oscar campaign, you knew it was coming from agents.

Marvel should give most of these people Orlando Bloom's phone number and ask him how life is after leaving a franchise. Robert Downey Jr. owns the role of Iron Man but everyone else is completely replaceable. I mean, is Hemsworth really bluffing with Red Dawn and Snow White as his track record? Chris Evans got lapped by Chris Pine and was on his way to Chris Klein-town before Captain America arrived.

I also think it's funny how everyone's making a stink about the actors while the writers and directors are constantly swapped out and the FX places are struggling to stay afloat. (If you ever want to see why Hollywood is terrified of an FX union, just watch the credits of Iron Man 3).

Of course, Marvel should probably be a little more generous since there's enough money to spread around but this article is an obvious negotiation ploy, carefully timed to be published after Iron Man's monstrous opening.

Stolen.

>
>Marvel should give most of these people Orlando Bloom's phone
>number and ask him how life is after leaving a franchise.
>Robert Downey Jr. owns the role of Iron Man but everyone else
>is completely replaceable. I mean, is Hemsworth really
>bluffing with Red Dawn and Snow White as his track record?
>Chris Evans got lapped by Chris Pine and was on his way to
>Chris Klein-town before Captain America arrived.
>
>

i'm out.
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>They'll get paid... But honestly, the only one who is TRULY
>important is RDJ. The rest are replaceable,

I wouldn't be so certain of that, especially if the Thor sequel does well. Also, filming would presumably begin next year but if the Cap sequel comes out only for him to be recast, could be a mess.

He signed for Cap 2 and Avengers 2.

Really, only RDJ and Hemsworth seem like they might be up in the air for Avengers 2. Evans is reportedly signed. Ruffalo has six more options left on his contract. Scarlett has 8. Sam Jackson has four left (and he's not in IM3 or Thor 2). I have to assume Renner has a bunch left.

And it might even make more sense to recast Hemsworth for Avengers 2 rather than trying to keep him in the fold. If they are already facing the prospects of having to recast Iron Man or other roles, it's probably a smart move to recast one of them in Avengers 2 so you aren't starting completely from scratch when Phase 3 launches.

Then again, if Ant Man and Dr. Strange are going to be around, Avengers 3 will likely need to have some guys drop out and maybe Thor is the odd god out.

>Then again, if Ant Man and Dr. Strange are going to be around,
>Avengers 3 will likely need to have some guys drop out and
>maybe Thor is the odd god out.

If they don't want to pay Hemsworth or want to re-cast him then what is stopping Marvel filming an ending in Thor 2 which sees Thor captured/killed and unable to appear in Avengers 2?

Marvel have probably already thought of this option.

Find a big blond Norse looking actor with some bass in his voice. He won't be Hemsworth, but if you pare down the Thor role some, it wouldn't affect people's overall enjoyment of the sequel much.

No Tony Stark in the sequel? That's a deal breaker.

>Find a big blond Norse looking actor with some bass in his
>voice. He won't be Hemsworth, but if you pare down the Thor
>role some, it wouldn't affect people's overall enjoyment of
>the sequel much.

Easier said than done. It's not like they can go back and get "Adventures in Baby-Sitting" era Vince D'Nofrio. Dolph Lundren is 105 years old. They could put a wig on Ray Stephenson, but he's already playing a role in the Thor movies. I guess it would be easy to cast a pro wrestler, but they seem to want people who can actually act. Only guy that I can reasonably think of this one: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0014261/?ref_=tt_cl_t2


>No Tony Stark in the sequel? That's a deal breaker.

I agree on this though.

Yes, even with a smaller role. Horrible.

He's *less* replaceable than RDJ, but he's still pretty hard to replace.

Obviously at this point you don't want to recast any of them, due to their chemistry together. I'm just saying, if Marvel is adamant about pinching pennies and they absolutely cannot afford (according to their standards) both of them, Hemsworth is much more easy to replace than RDJ. Not easy to replace... but not impossible, the way replacing RDJ is.

Aleksander Skarsgard was Branaugh's first choice and I think he could do fine. Joel Kinnaman was also considered for the role. And there are probably a number of relative unknowns who could take over the role, just as Hemsworth did. Hell, give Jamie Lannister a couple months to bulk up and he'd be a decent option.

You can't just throw some random muscle-bound actor into the role and Hemsworth definitely has star quality but replacing him isn't impossible and if he's asking for movie star money, then you move on.

And throwing some blond nordic looking guy out there isn't going to cut it. There aren't many that can act.

And of the guys you mentioned, IMO Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is the only potentially good one; almost named him as a potential choice in my first response.

Of course now that folks are used to him it might seem odd for someone else to be in the role... but that doesn't mean they're aren't others out there that can do just as good if not better job in the role.
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I like Hemsworth but, honestly, besides the "He's adopted" line, he was pretty forgettable in Avengers and I didn't think he seemed all that irreplaceable in Thor.

I know recasting can be tough but it's more about picking the right guy than there not being enough options.

Obviously you're not going to find someone better than or as good as Hemsworth.

But a recast Hemsworth affects the quality of the film way less than a recast RDJ.

I also think if Thor 2 is a hit, signing him becomes essential. Because then you're replacing an actor who's played the role successfully in three hit movies. It moves beyond the replacing Norton with Ruffalo realm.

I don't think recasting any of the Big Three is a cinch. RDJ is the obvious untouchable, but the other two were significant in their roles in their own right. It would do some damage to recast them without a complete reboot IMO.

This is a living, breathing universe. This isn't like recasting batman between flicks in the 90's, because those are pretty much standalone stories. This is an ongoing saga and recasting could do significant damage to those brands.

They could kill Black Widow and Hawkeye and I wouldn't care in the least.

I doubt he'll be in Avengers 2. Maybe a cameo or something.

But in a related story, I saw the Ant-Man teaser trailer last week and it was awesome.

All his pussy-footing is to send a simple message: that he knows he has all the leverage. Hence, the cast will get near their quotes.

You're pulling 80 mil after everything. You want more. There are three major Avengers. Several minor ones.

You can't make more AND argue for them to make more. When the actors start eating up that percentage of everything, the studio will make the wrong fucking wrong decisions. Every. Time.

Look at Iron Man 2 and 3's numbers, then compare them to Thor 2 and Cap 2 when those come out. (Shit, if you want to stick to pre-Avengers, look at the relative openings of Iron Man, Thor, and Cap, and the relative legs each film had). RDJ is by FAR the most indispensable of the bunch.

Not to mention RDJ, mask off, was the central image on the poster and his snarky one-liners buttoned pretty much every Avengers ad. He's the last hero we see, and if I'm not mistaken, he's the first established hero we see out of the three (could be wrong on that last point). He was the star of The Avengers, the closest thing to its protagonist-- a fact I'm sure his agents and he are all acutely aware of.

None of the other heroes rest on their personality nearly as much as RDJ's Tony Stark does. Not even close, really. And while I'd obviously prefer everyone stay, everyone get an equal slice of pie, etc.... reality is that RDJ is cast-wise by far and away the most indispensable to Avengers and Iron Man sequels. And really, if he's not in Avengers 2, and it grosses only a billion instead of close to two billion worldwide, it affects every Marvel film moving forward from there. Which I do not want. At all.

And truthfully, you could make the argument (and I'm sure his agents do) that without RDJ as Iron Man, those profits aren't nearly as massive, Avengers doesn't grow to be as lucrative as it is today, and the Disney sale price is either knocked down a few pegs or doesn't happen at all. Is that a stretch? Sure, maybe. But RDJ, out of all actors, is the backbone of Marvel Comics at the box office and in the public eye, even more than Hugh Jackman at this point.

I completely agree with everything you said. He's on Depp/PIRATES status. People don't give a fuck so long as that man is quipping in a good movie.

Matter of fact.... if Depp and RDJ starred in a movie together, vaginas would fall off bodies. Legit... fall off right off of women's bodies.

Tony Stark basically is Robert Downey Jr. His personality is tied to the role. Nobody else owns the role like he does. Even if Hemsworth lives up to his potential as a movie star, he's still easily replaceable as Thor. And the side characters are replaceable as Terrence Howard.

Yes, his presence brings in a ton of money... but when you ramp it up for everyone, even to scale, you're looking at 150 million on three actors. If RDJ is getting 80, do you think Chris will be cool with 5? Doubtful.

There needs to be a middle ground. His stance might well lead to them getting recasted and getting nothing as opposed to, say, 10-15 million dollars while the recasted actor gets 5.

There's no way they wrote him a check for 50 mil before they started shooting. I think he got a percentage of what the film made at the box office. SoulHonky is better at breaking down this kind of contract stuff than I am, so I'm probably garbling up the truth or the word choice a bit... but it's not like they'd write a check for 150 mil off the top. They'd spend less up front, and due to the percentage the actors with percentage points get, they'd get fewer returns.

There's zero chance Hemsworth and Evans will get RDJ money...

... but let's assume Downey Jr. got an option for 3% of the worldwide box office. Again, totally fudging how this works, and SoulHonky will need to correct my specifics, but assuming he made 50 mil and the movie made 1.5 bil worldwide, that's a little more than 3%. So let's say, to make it simplistic, that his contract was a certain set amount of money vs. 3%, and since the movie was a massive hit, the 3% was the bigger pay day.

Even if they give Hemsworth 1.5 and Evans 1.5% of Avengers 2 (that'd be a MASSIVE payday for each of them, and there's no way that actually happens, but just for hypothetical fun)... if Avengers 2 pushes 2 bill at the worldwide box office, which is extremely likely, they each get 40 mil and RDJ gets 80. That's 160 mil of 2 bil. Marvel spends, oh, I don't know, 300 mil on the actual budget and 300 mil on marketing (probably a lowball estimate)...

THAT'S STILL A PROFIT OF 1.2 BILLION DOLLARS SOLELY ON BOX OFFICE TICKETS. That doesn't even include DVD/Blu sales, online rentals from iTunes, all merchandise, etc.

Again, that was the most simplistic and possibly incorrect way of breaking it down, full of inaccuracies, assumptions, and perhaps off-base estimates. I'm slightly embarrassed to have attempted it.

But my general points are:
1. RDJ's money wasn't upfront, it was likely based primarily on the massive box office.
2. If Hemsworth and Evans want a percentage, as long as they realize they won't get the same amount as RDJ, they will still make shit tons of cash, and...
3. Marvel can afford it.

Now, if they roll WITHOUT RDJ? I'd estimate that sequel makes about a billion. And the profit margin is waaaaay thinner. Hemsworth and Evans sure as shit wouldn't get a percentage of the box office in that set of circumstances... and I'm betting Marvel realizes that Hemsworth and Evans' agents know that. Marvel has the leverage with them.

>But my general points are:
>1. RDJ's money wasn't upfront, it was likely based primarily
>on the massive box office.

Correct.

>2. If Hemsworth and Evans want a percentage, as long as they
>realize they won't get the same amount as RDJ, they will still
>make shit tons of cash, and...

There is no way they are giving those two clowns points on the back end. The only way I see that happening is if RDJ drops what ever his points are (unlikely) and they're divied out to the others.

>3. Marvel can afford it.

They can. But I don't see them giving up any more points after what Downey pulled in. They gave him that deal because they didn't see it blowing up the way it did.

I think they'll cut a check for these guys, but Hems and the rest will have to essentially sign away a good portion of their schedule and commit for a ton of more movies and cameos.

It's kind of crazy that Hemsworth's offer was a 500k raise and then another 500k if the film grosses 500 million. Toss him another 2 - 5 million if the movie makes bank and I think everything is smoothed over.

Like Longo mentioned above, we aren't just talking about The Avengers box office but the culminating monetary effect RDJ has had on every Marvel film since Iron Man was released.

Since RDJ augments the value of Marvel significantly, and thus holds significant leverage, his payday will continue to swell and those of his castmates will as well because in the end, those added costs for Marvel will be more than covered by the added value of RDJ.

That Disney dgaf about.

maximize profits at all costs.. even if it means fucking over the people that work for you. just because they are high priced actors doesn't mean they are exempt from this mindset.

As for the Avengers and current Marvel lineup... we're getting far enough into this now that sooner or later changes are going to have to be made just off of age or audience boredom. It would be pretty easily to start to focus on new Characters and just use these current characters as smaller players in the movie universe... I mean Iron Man is a dude in a suit so it would be real easy to have the character pop up here and there without focusing on Tony Stark.
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he made what, 50m on A2? Everyone else made no more than 4. Cmon.

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But just having him involved, even as a snarky mentor/guy behind computer talking in their ears, is so goddamn important as the series goes forward.

The insane thing is, even if he didn't don the suit at ALL in Avengers 2, he still would be the primary draw for the majority of moviegoers.

They can shift toward another character, cuz imo I thought ere was way too much prominence given towards Iron Man. RDJ is the best actor by far (aided by Ruffalo being a CGI cartoon for most of the movie). They can get somebody else to rock a shitty beard/mustache/sideburns combo and keep cranking them out.

That'd be a great call for Tony Starks.

They also suggested starring James Rhodes and have Cheadle rock with it. That wouldn't sell though.

That is all.

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He'd ham it up too much.

It's tough to think of a recast Tony Stark since you can't really duplicate Downey Jr. and you probably can't afford A-list guys which knocks off Ryan Gosling and Bradley Cooper. And previous casting would knock out Michael Fassbender, Hugh Jackman, Tom Hiddleston, and (thankfully) Ryan Reynolds.

Off the top of my head, I'd consider: Timothy Olyphant, Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Ben Foster, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (aka Jamie Lannister). If you could get Nathan Fillion to work off his Castle weight gain, he could be a decent option.
I like the kid who plays Cary Agos on The Good Wife but he doesn't have the star power for the role. Ditto for Emile Hirsch. And I always think Chiwetel Ejiofor would kill any role.

>He'd ham it up too much.
>
>It's tough to think of a recast Tony Stark since you can't
>really duplicate Downey Jr. and you probably can't afford
>A-list guys which knocks off Ryan Gosling and Bradley Cooper.
>And previous casting would knock out Michael Fassbender, Hugh
>Jackman, Tom Hiddleston, and (thankfully) Ryan Reynolds.


true...all this is true.

>Off the top of my head, I'd consider: Timothy Olyphant,
>Joseph Gordon-Levitt, Ben Foster, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (aka
>Jamie Lannister). If you could get Nathan Fillion to work off
>his Castle weight gain, he could be a decent option.
>I like the kid who plays Cary Agos on The Good Wife but he
>doesn't have the star power for the role. Ditto for Emile
>Hirsch. And I always think Chiwetel Ejiofor would kill any
>role.

Timothy Olyphant, JGL, Ben Foster, yes. But, as much as Nikolaj Coster-Waldau is great as Jamie Lannister on GOT, he doesn't translate well at all with other american movies. He was horrible in Mama; his scant TV work that wasn't GOT was horrible. So, I don't see it. But, maybe others do.

Nathan Fillion: even if he worked off the Castle weight gain, could he legitimately pull it off? He's fine in Castle but I'm struggling to see him as Tony Stark.

And Tony Stark is way more than a smart ass douchebag. I feel like Fillion would go overboard with the douchebaggery and not know how to rein it in.

Matt Czuchry aka Cary Agos? ehhh he doesn't have the start power and potentially not even much presence on screen. He's great on TGW but even when his character is front and center as he has been more often this past season, he comes off as flat. and given that you can interchange him for any of the people you mentioned above in the first group...

but Matt doing another minor Marvel character could work though...just not Stark.

Chiewetel is fantastic and he can do anything..but Tony Stark? Could we *REALLY* see him as Stark?

Hell, I'd see him as BLADE in the reboot before I'd see him as Tony Stark...but that's just me.

douchebag asshole.

He's got the drama chops and is pretty funny.

Franco talks like someone has put the film slightly into slow motion.

He was the worst part of the last Planet of the Apes film and he's gotta be a superior scientist AND businessman to be Stark. I don't know if you need a fast talker but you need to have someone who exudes confidence and whom people will follow.

Bottom line, if Franco had delivered the final "I am Iron Man" line in the first Iron Man film, I think most people would have laughed.

>Franco talks like someone has put the film slightly into slow
>motion.

Leo could pull it off, even though right now it's hard to see anyone besides RDJ in the role. Ironically, his role in Django makes the look plausible

This is one such time.

The fuck is wrong with you?

http://i.imgur.com/BcO7ls2.jpg

I rewatched Iron Man 2 last night, and while it's definitely light, it does have some terrific action, effects, and one-liners.

The Incredible Hulk's CGI looks worse with each passing year-- that final fight scene which even I cysed at the time is a dark blurry fake-looking mess, especially compared to the Avengers Hulk-- the human scenes (save for Tim Blake Nelson) are all boring, and the whole thing feels like a characterless slog, primarily because they were scared of all that psychobabble from the first (which actually makes the first film better if deeply flawed, IMO).

>primarily because they were scared of all that
>psychobabble from the first (which actually makes the first
>film better if deeply flawed, IMO).

I enjoyed Hulk and I thought Bana played a good Banner; I liked the Hulk in that movie more too. They went a little far with Nolte the mad scientist, but still pretty well done and demonstrated Hulk's powers really well. It was a bold move at the time; up to that point, only Spider-Man and X-Men 1 and 2 had come out in the "new school" super hero flicks. A Hulk done today will be much better overall IMO.

Casting is better across the board. The second one replaces Sam Elliott with William Hurt, c'mon. And Nolte is so good that he would've made my Best Supporting Actors list that year. Connelly > Tyler, and while Bana borders on bland, Norton really phones it in too. The first one doesn't have Tim Blake Nelson, but it does have Josh Lucas gloriously hamming it up, so I call that a wash.

The escape from the underground facility leading into the desert action sequence is better than any of the action in the second one.

While it does dwell too much on the inner demons compared to the rush of being The Hulk, the second one barely touches on inner demons at all... which makes the whole internal conflict, an essential element, a total non-entity.

The only thing the second one does better is end on an action sequence. The first one ends with that very odd bubble lake lighting flash memory bullshit.

That, and the second one doesn't have the Hulk Dog sequence, which is admittedly embarrassing.

Outside of the end of the climax and the Hulk Dog sequence, I think the first Hulk is totally passable and at times really good. The second one is okay at best and boring at worst.

So, yeah, I agree with you, lol.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=23&topic_id=88606&mesg_id=88606&listing_type=search#88770

Hulk Dogs and all.

Should've ended with him kneeling in front of Betty.

And I've only seen bits and pieces of the first one. I've pretended it doesn't exist.

>I rewatched Iron Man 2 last night, and while it's definitely
>light, it does have some terrific action, effects, and
>one-liners.

it was a poor handling of the alcoholism documented in the comics, but some of those deleted scenes would have made for a DRASTICALLY improved movie. there was a scene where he and natasha are heavily flirting and pepper sees this going on.

also, i have to agree with whoever said terrence howard is better for the role than cheadle. cheadle is a superior actor but howard works for the tight ass but really wants to be loose rhodes.

>http://i.imgur.com/BcO7ls2.jpg

I mean, can I at least get Luke Cage?

smh

Jesus.

shits just sad at this point

one of the principle three super heroes that "made" Marvel will have that affect.

a BP movie

this is bullshit

plus there already is a storyline that is supposed to include BP and it isnt
and the shits wack

over Black Panther.

I've never really cared much about him, but the idea of Marvel wanting phase 3 to include a feature of one of their oldest characters isn't that hard to grasp.

lets just get this new avengers going stat

http://marvel.com/news/story/20786/robert_downey_jr_to_return_as_marvels_iron_man#ixzz2WmOfGjr1


Robert Downey Jr. To Return As Marvel’s Iron Man
RDJ inks new Marvel deal
Posted Jun 20, 2013 1:30 pm
Updated Jun 20, 2013 1:30 pm


“I am Iron Man.”
Tony Stark’s famous closing line to the very first Iron Man film takes on new life today as Marvel is pleased to announce the signing of Robert Downey, Jr. to reprise the role of the “billionaire, genius, playboy, philanthropist.”
Under the two-picture agreement, Downey will star as Tony Stark/Iron Man in “Marvel’s The Avengers 2” and “Marvel’s The Avengers 3.” Downey is represented at CAA by Bryan Lourd, Jim Toth and Matt Leaf and by his attorneys Tom Hansen and Stewart Brookman of the firm Hansen Jacobson.
Downey, Jr.’s last two Marvel films, 2012’s “Marvel’s The Avengers” and this year’s “Iron Man 3,” rank as two of the top five grossing films of all time, collectively earning over $2.7 billion worldwide to date.
“Marvel’s The Avengers 2” is being written and directed by Joss Whedon. Featuring favorites from the first Avengers film and new Marvel characters never before seen on the big screen, “Marvel’s The Avengers 2” is slated to begin production in March 2014 and open in theaters May 1, 2015.
Thrilled by this mega announcement, Marvelites? Well, be sure you stay glued to Marvel.com because in the coming days and weeks and months, Marvel.com will be FIRST in the world to reveal additional casting updates, new characters coming to Marvel movies and so much more -- directly from the most secret meetings at Marvel! You wouldn't want to miss out on that now, would you?!

If Avengers 2 is 2015, and it'll likely be at least another year until Phase 3 plays out, it seems like Iron Man flicks will be out of business for a bit. And by the time Avengers 3 is over, I'd assume it'd be about time to recast the role as Downey would be getting up there.

Worst case scenario: make Tony a figurehead, still a billionaire playboy, but an aging one who still is the de facto "leader" even if he's deferring to Rhodey in suited combat. He helps build tech, helps when the opponent needs outsmarting, etc. Just having RDJ as Stark bantering in the film one way or another is worth it IMO.

http://youtu.be/ANuym9DlYDo

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Im not posting in PTP

And just not a character from an SNL skit?

**********
"naive as the dry leaves on the ground looking past the trees to the blue sky asking 'why me?'" -Blu

Why I still fuzz with the Lesson
http://open.spotify.com/user/brothersport86/playlist/3DhEhilho77Z0UCPbJlEJf

Pretty good musician as well

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Buckingham

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Im not posting in PTP

perfect accompaniment to my early morning doobie snack.

V.