He's not that greatest or anything but he has a nice list of undeniables that should have subjected him to less hate.

Dances
Revenge
No Way Out
Untouchables
Bull effing Durham
Tin Cup

That list allows me to overlook his performance in Robin Hood (I still can't believe he ran to cry on Morgan Freeman's shoulder when he saw his dead dad). I think that is the only thing he needs to apologize for. Anything he's put out this decade is just a paycheck although the serial killer jawn with Demi Moore was pretty cool.

I never hated Water World
And whenever the Post Man comes on (like 2 nights ago), I watch it.

It's fun and all, but its pretty cheesy.

Scarface hate. So for that reason I leave it up there. Maybe it didn't age well but it was solidly respectable when it came out and for years after, it solidified his career and helped push Andy Garcia to the A-List and is noted as another one of Deniro's great performances.

Scarface was always a cult film. It's unbelievably over-the-top. The problem with Scarface is people started overrating it and now it's coming back down .

and that's why i used it. whether the U. got over-hyped or not I cannot say. But even you acknowledged it's cool to knock it down a peg or two (euphemisms be damned).

The Untouchable was a great film that was a throwback to the old movies of the 40's. But now, so much of that stuff has been parodied that it does indeed look cheesy.

The film was always pulpy crime film and it seems a lot of people go into it expecting The Godfather. I love it and still think it's one of the best crime dramas ever made but you can't compare it directly to Godfather or LA Confidential because it has a different tone.

It's arguably DePalma's last great movie...
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what in the untouchables has been parodied? where?

if it happened, it was isolated instances and it surely wasn't enough to impact a reasonable person's appreciation of the film.
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>It's fun and all, but its pretty cheesy.

That movie is classic. Yeah, some of DePalma's homage to the older movies is kind of cheesy but it's still a great movie.

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>I never hated Water World

"Hey, let's take The Road Warrior and reverse everything!"

Unless you're a huge Jeanne Tripplehorn, there's nothing remotely good about that movie.

do a re-imagining of Road Warrior. Look at all of the Die Hard ripoffs. Jut because speed was a Die Hard knockoff didn't make me automatically hate it. I just think WW wasn't as vile as people make it out to be. It flopped, I get it. I can still watch it.

>make me automatically hate it. I just think WW wasn't as vile
>as people make it out to be. It flopped, I get it. I can still
>watch it.

agreed there.

it really is a full-blown remake - it's the exact same movie just put in a different setting, on the same level as Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven or Yojimbo/Fistfull of Dollars

reason to hate.

but yeah it is essentially a remake of Road Warrior on water.

people make it out to be Battlefield Earth level bad. it's not. it's not very good, but it's watchable at least.

but they owe George Miller some royalties, cuz the entire thing is just Road Warrior set on water.

was being a real priss on the set. I always thought the media was rooting for it to fail. i had no stake in it so i could care less. it's a watchable movie.

> I always thought the media
>was rooting for it to fail.

they were basically declaring it a flop before it even came out.

e.g. Highlander 2: The Quickening, Battlefield Earth, etc. are truly fucking awful.

Waterworld is bad, but it's not on that level.

I watched the whole thing while sitting on their couch, half-talking to other people. And it sucked to just look at. I couldn't imagine how bad it'd be if I could actually hear the dialogue.

He started making self-indulgent stuff like Waterworld and The Postman and even now when he talks about stuff like Mr. Brooks, he acts like he's reinventing the wheel.

That basically killed him because his public persona became of a guy who was full of himself but his films roles are usually a guy who's an underdog.

I was hoping for a comeback because I liked his run in the late 80's/early 90's but then I saw a couple recent interviews and just said fuck it, let someone else get their shot.

Dennis Quaid has basically taken over Costner's spot as the focused good guy who strives for what's right.

i never noticed. he's nowhere near sean penn in that regard. and if could actually make a movie i cared about, id see it.

And that's the problem. His self-indulgence oozes from every crack and crevice of the movies he makes. And that is why he is so hate-able. His self-indulgence has a negative impact on his movies. If you're going to let your ego seeps into your movies, at least do it the way Tom Cruise does.

I've seen all of one Costner role where that didn't happen, Jake in Silverado, and that's because, love him or hate him, Lawrence Kasdan knows how to write and direct characters and he runs a tight ship.

box

I don't detect any oozings from him.

As a matter of fact, though I'm sure I've seen something, I can't really think of anything I've seen him do outside of his work as an actor (interviews, articles, tabloid stories).

It's just that, for the most part, he's a victim of the "I play the same guy in every role" syndrome that a lot of actors suffer from. Thing is, I find all of these same characters to be rather unattractive, unlikable, not compelling. Now that could be an artistic choice that all his characters--despite wildly different settings, backgrounds and circumstance--are mostly indistinguishable, but my better guess would be that it is at least a flaw in his technique if not his character.

Not saying he's a bad guy or anything, I don't know him, but when people stick doggedly to one mode it's usually for one of two reasons:

They are succeeding greatly with it

or

They think it's the way to go despite evidence to the contrary.

Certainly, this is a false dilemma but it's to make a point. Though he has had a successful career, it hasn't been for the great success of his ability to play the same compelling character over and over again. More than likely he plays his characters this way as a result of some great love and trust of himself as an arbiter of artistic worth, because it's not for a lack of ability to play characters outside of that type.

He's done/been in some great films, but he saturated
the market with himself way too early.

He shoulda just played it cool like Tom Hanks, and
built his legend slowly.

He was borderline pop star in his rise and fall. It
doesn't work like that for dramatic actors. Niggas
stop feeling you.

Spacing some of those projects out a bit more woulda
have been better for everyone.

The key difference is that when Hanks's ran his career into the ground, he took a couple years off, picked good scripts, and changed his focus to drama.

Costner ran his career into the ground, took two years off, and then made shit like Rumor Has It and The Guardian.

Hanks entered phase 2 of his career. Costner still thinks he's in phase 1.

>Hanks entered phase 2 of his career. Costner still thinks he's
>in phase 1.

so even if you don't like it, it's not like "this is a tom hanks joint"

when costner made some shitty flicks, he got dumped on 2x

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It wasn't saturation as much as it was Costner coming out with two Kevin Costner Epics which tanked. He wisely took a couple years off but then made Message in a Bottle and For The Love of the Game which buried him.

He also isn't above just taking a film for a paycheck which a guy in his position can't really afford to do. It's like "I'll do this bad movie for the money so I can then make my own bad movie".

I guess there's something admirable about his "My way or the highway" approach but it doesn't really work when his way has produced nothing but dreck lately.

He needs to win people back in a supporting role or something. Right now, he could be the definition of box office poison. If there's an anti-Will Smith, it's Kevin Costner.

that's a good movie + a very good performance by Costner.

although Costner's Bahstan accent in that is horrendous.

It's the accent that really killed it for me.

He also left off my second favorite, "Silverado."

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used to love this film.

V.

Before the bloodbath that accompanied Waterworld.

What was the problem there?? I thought Bryan Adams immortalized RH and Costner.

He got a lot of flack for his lack of a British accent, even though he wasn't the only one who just acted in his normal voice. But I think because he came across as such an average American Joe, it stood out more and was kind of funny. Like Dan Connor, Prince of Thieves.

At the time when it came out, the one criticism I remember was from one critic who said "Kevin Costner, Christian Slater and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio save England from people who actually speak with british accents.

>At the time when it came out, the one criticism I remember
>was from one critic who said "Kevin Costner, Christian Slater
>and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio save England from people who
>actually speak with british accents.

The "rewritting of the constitution" scene may be the worst conveived devices in movie history.

well I actually don't have a Top 5 list but if I did it would be in there.

Overblown sense of self importance in regards to his Hollywood career.
I'm sure it has a lot to do with being surrounded by Yes Men who inflate your ego once you blow up a bit.






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Dane Cook is a douchebag, but Costner did his thing in that one. William Hurt was great in that as well, IMO.

He made a couple of poorly-reviewed, "self-important" epics, and mofos suddenly jumped off the bandwagon

Fuck them, and fuck anyone hating on the following Costner joints:

Silverado
The Untouchables
No Way Out
Bull Durham
Field of Dreams
Dances with Wolves <--- NOPE! Good film. Not better than Goodfellas, but be mad anyway
JFK
Revenge
A Perfect World
Tin Cup
Thirteen Days
The Upside of Anger


Costner had a helluva run in the late 80's-early 90's, but like I said, he went on ahead and made some other stuff, like Waterworld (which I haven't seen in eons, so I can't really comment on it) and Wyatt Earp and The Postman, and all of a sudden he was an alleged self-indulgent movie star who thought his shit didn't stink... whatever... son is alright with me...
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I know. I know.

against Tombstone but in some ways it felt more natural to me than Tombstone did.

And Dennis Quaid was great as Doc Holiday, I don't care what anyone says.

>And Dennis Quaid was great as Doc Holiday, I don't care what
>anyone says.

i loved Val in that.

V.

and often pretty bad.

Though, asides from Val Kilmer's monster performance, I never really liked "Tombstone" either.

...i believe i saw both in the theater and like both roughly equally although as everyone says val kilmer was the bright light in tombstone.
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his range of emotion covers anywhere from solemn to catatonic

and let's not get started on the accents.

oh, the accents...

i don't think that's why people hated him.

he's sort of similar to tommy lee jones, in the sense that his best performances are the ones that are the least affected + most free of accoutrement. any character quirks, accents, idiosyncrasies, etc tend to throw him off his game. but when he's played it straight, he's put in a good deal of quality work.

but he's bland as fuck.

He just seems real vanilla.

A perfect world is a good ass movie tho

he and the guy in 'something new' are the only white guys i've seen plausibly pull off interracial chemistry (sorry, zebrahead). for that alone, i have to give him one point. LOL.
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I enjoyed that movie as well.


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WATERWORLD all that shit was unforgetable like Nat King Cole but generally speaking if he in a film that doesnt have a setting of the years 3 B.C. and 1975 ad its gonna be asss