I think he does, and I think, even if he hadn't died, people would still believe his performance is Oscar-worthy.

Every time I saw Joker, I didn't see Heath. When I saw Morgan Freeman, I saw Morgan Freeman playing Luscious Fox. Heath made me forget he was Heath, he was just the Joker. He was captivating in every scene he was in, and, if you have ever read any of the comics, you know he nailed it. He was the perfect Joker. Flawless.

Consider the type of performances that are nominated every year. There's no reason to think that Heath's ain't seein' them. A nomination and/or win would be much deserved. It's a shame, though, that a lot of people will point to his death as the reason for his nomination, if he does get one.

Poll question: Does Heath Ledger deserve an Oscar?

Poll result (53 votes) Yes, he deserves a nomination/award (45 votes) Vote No (8 votes) Vote

in anything. No one can front on his skills, and he captured the audiences' attention like no one else in recent memory.

His performance stands out in what's so far been a fairly shitty year for movies. I expect he'll get a nomination. I can't call it on an Oscar until I see the rest of the year's films.

as daniel plainview. just a complete transformation of character. i doubt there will be an electrifying performance as heath's this year. when he left the screen, you couldn't wait till he would come back again. he made the dark knight.

n/m

gettin my catholic on.

It was that great for you?


!sig!

"I used to rock and roll all night and party ev-er-ry day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find half an hour a week in which to get funky." - Homer Simpson

...when he comes on screen, you definitely look forward to the scene(s).

i'm completely gay for heath ledger.

Besides clown make up and a fun slide down a pile of money... he was not the Joker. That performance was pretty brilliant (I ain't sayin' Oscar worthy... but brilliant), but it wasn't the Joker to me. No jokes, no tricks, no treats.... dude was just a psychopath. Does it work in the Nolanverse? Absolutely. But as a comic fan... that ain't the Clown Prince of Crime.

He was as much the Joker as Danny DeVito was the Penguin.

i thought it was a great version of the killing joke joker.



*spoilers*






maybe he could have been funnier, but the psychopath part was spot on, ESPECIALLY the pencil trick scene and lighting the pile of money on fire with dude sitting on top.
___

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As sadistic? Sure. But in the KJ, while being evil and sadistic... he's still fun. Heath, minus the pencil and the money... was not fun.

As I said in the other thread... Mark Hamill is still the GJOAT

Heath's joker was funny. That scene where he busts into the party was hilarious. You must be looking for some corny shit, or something. I can't figure out what you're talking about.

because that's what I would have voted.

granted he gave an A+ performance in a B+ movie, but I can't help but feel it would be a little far fetched to give him a statue

... nerding out for DK since before they even announced Ledger was gonna be in it. Multiple posts about every little thing about the movie.

Yes many people saw DK b/c of the death and many more discussion were had as well. But PTP doesn't count. We nerd out regardless.





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for the reasons stated by DawgEatah

I don't know how anyone can watch that performance, think of the others that have come from other actors this year, and not seriously think about it being Oscar-worthy

Unless they're just trying to start shit
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Old age

If I remember, I'll inbox

And sorry if my answer came off as harsh
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It's not like the first half of this year has been chock full of Oscar contenders.

I'm not saying that people won't surpass him come Oscar season but right now he has to be one of the favorites.

It's July. Come Nov/Dec, try it.

Though that I only know him as "Dude from 4 Months, 3 Weeks & 2 Days" probably doesn't say much for his Oscar hopes (impossible as they are). Male supporting-wise, I also liked Ralph Fiennes in In Bruges, but that entire movie will probably go overlooked at Oscar time and Fiennes' role can't really compare with what Ledger was given. So, yeah, he's in my top spot, but it's only July, as has already been stated.

(BTW, the less we talk about Cassandra's Dream the better.)

>(BTW, the less we talk about Cassandra's Dream the better.)


Specifically Wilkenson and McGregor. Fuckin' boss.

.

Was basically the same guy in every scene.

Great performance, was scary, did a lot of
cool stuff, catchy lines, etc. Good for him.

But Oscar worthy? Lol. Hell no.

Maybe a nom, just to pay respect to the
dead, or whatever.

I mean, 'O Dog' from 'Menace 2 Society'
was more menacing in a realistic role than
Ledger was in a fantasy role.

And Robert Englund didn't get no nom for the first
'Nightmare on Elm Street' and his genuine scariness
defined an entire generation.

And Ledger's character was basically like Freddy
Krueger - good writing + Batman

So no. Hell no.


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O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

And every year there seems to be a "even-if-one-note-great-to-just-watch" nomination: 2007 Philip Seymour Hoffman - Charlie Wilson's War; 2006 Mark Wahlberg - The Departed; William Hurt - A History of Violence, etc. Heath Ledger's Joker would seem a comfortable fit in that tradition.

Javier Bardem, Alan Arkin, Morgan Freeman, (Tim Robbins is an exception), Chris Cooper all showed minimal range but gave great performances...Heath Ledger certainly fits in here

>>And Robert Englund didn't get no nom for the first
>>'Nightmare on Elm Street' and his genuine scariness
>>defined an entire generation.

My brother and I always thought he should of gotten a nom for that role.

But I guess he never made anything spectacular outside that role, so you couldn't compare to any performances.

Other than that, I think Heath should get a nom but no win. I don't know I really love the movie though. I thought he was fun and scary.

:)

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being completely the character and transcending the actors normal self.

Heath Ledger was indistinguishable as Heath Ledger from past roles. He fully became that character wether the writing had range or not. His acting as that limited character was untouchable.

>being completely the character and transcending the actors
>normal self.

Well then Larenz Tate would have about 4 oscar nominations
now, because he kills every role and never rarely the same
kind of character twice.


>Heath Ledger was indistinguishable as Heath Ledger from past
>roles. He fully became that character wether the writing had
>range or not. His acting as that limited character was
>untouchable.

Okay, but there are dozens of other actors who did that
and never got nominated.

but I cant think of a better way to articulate what I mean. I see your points as well though.

Chigur in broad daylight telling someone to call heads or tails was more frightening/riveting than anything Ledger did IMO. He did a great job but Bardem could just sit in a room and talk and be menacing.

Although I still say that the best performance last year was Amy Ryan in Gone Baby Gone. With no makeup or really any change in her look, she became a completely different person. I've been putting a lot of people up on The Wire and when they get to season 2 they are always STUNNED when I tell them Beadie Russell was in Gone Baby Gone. Everyone says the same thing, "Oh, I thought that actress was some local they got." My friends from Boston say that same thing.

/

>Chigur in broad daylight telling someone to call heads or
>tails was more frightening/riveting than anything Ledger did
>IMO. He did a great job but Bardem could just sit in a room
>and talk and be menacing.
>

I'm just not impressed by:

"I can be apeshit and say cutesy lines and do wild
things every scene!!!"

I'm more impressed by conflict. Inner tumroil
that is properly communicated through the film.
Negotiating emotions and priorities.

Oldman did that. Ledger did not.





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O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

and Ledger did more than just go apeshit & run wild though. some scenes, like the ones where he was telling the stories of how he got his scars, stripped down the wild antics and were pretty chilling & far from cutesy. he did show some good range in the role.

.... not RAGE.

not with the performance.

a little early to declare that he deserves the oscar. but it's absolutely an Oscar-worthy performance.

i thought he did a great job.

defnitely entertaining, cool villian, but oscar worthy? no.

i thought the emperor from Star Wars was just as compelling,if not more, especially in the prequels, he didn't get an oscar.

all this oscar talk is because he died, sad to say.

when someone dies young like Heath did, they tend to romanticize and embellish ones strengths, and gloss over the flaws.

yes, Heath was more appealing than anybody else in the movie,he was a caricature on wheels/freak show more than a character in a movie, but acting-wise, his role was not challenging at all. more like sketch comedy. i thought the dude who played harvey dent had a more challenging and impressive role (save the coin flips), and Morgan Freeman did arguably the best acting job in that movie.

so no, Heath does not deserve an oscar, because he did not earn one.

>all this oscar talk is because he died, sad to say.
>
>when someone dies young like Heath did, they tend to
>romanticize and embellish ones strengths, and gloss over the
>flaws.

Morgan Freeman did
>arguably the best acting job in that movie.

what acting did he even do? michael caine did a better job as the butler than freeman did. freeman was just being... freeman. and a very boring freeman too.

actually he didn't do shit. he was in the movie, collectively, less than 30 minutes. I mean, that's bullshit.

Someone would have mentioned it. People always "mention" performances as being award worthy, and those are the ones we tend to forget about. Since he died, people are serious about it. There's precedent though. Silence of the Lambs came out on Valentine's Day and Anthony Hopkins and Jody Foster held down the fort until the oscars the following year. And Forrest Gump was a summer movie too.

That said, I think he was as good as any of the recent oscar winners. I just saw "There Will Be Blood" for the first time last Saturday (the day after two viewings of TDK) and he was as good IMO as Daniel Day Lewis.

I tend to ignore the oscars ever since Eddie Murphy got fucked over for Dreamgirls.

>I tend to ignore the oscars ever since Eddie Murphy got fucked
>over for Dreamgirls.
>

he didn't deserve that sh*t. if anything Jamie did the real acting work in Dreamgirls.

Jamie Foxx was damn good, but he didn't get the nom. Eddie did. Would you say Adam Arkin in "Little Miss Sunshine" was better than either of them though?

My opinion was Eddie deserved it. My opinion is the Oscars ain't shit because of people like Eddie, Samuel Jackson, Bill Murray and Angela Bassett losing out to performances no one even remembers. My opinion is also that Heath Ledger deserves a nomination for The Dark Knight.

Say what you will about Mystic River (the ending or whatever), but Sean Penn and Tim Robbins straight killed their roles...totally deserved the awards it got.

That's the truth.

It's fucked up that a bad movie ruined what might be his only chance ever for an Oscar (I mean, he'd already won the Golden Globe), but it's exactly what happened.

Norbit should have been withheld until April, but I guess DreamWorks needed a Q1 hit more than they wanted the prestige/increased sales of having Dreamgirls win three Oscars instead of two. Makes business sense, but damn.

And Jaime Foxx sorta fucked himself for
his career with that Ray performance

He was CLEARLY was outstanding in
'Dreamgirls'

Outstanding, definitely warranted a nom

He just isn't playing a blind musician

Gonna be hard for him to get nominated again

in Dreamgirls?

He didn't get as far into the role as he should have, considering he was supposed to be the lead and the driving force behind the story. And I know it's not always proper to compare actors in movie musical adaptations to their stage counterparts, but really: Foxx is the weakest Curtis I've yet seen or heard, save for high school productions.

>He didn't get as far into the role as he should have,
>considering he was supposed to be the lead and the driving
>force behind the story.

No, the Dreamgirls were supposed to drive the story,
and they did

Foxx was excellent

> And I know it's not always proper to
>compare actors in movie musical adaptations to their stage
>counterparts, but really: Foxx is the weakest Curtis I've yet
>seen or heard, save for high school productions.

I think you're out of your goddamn mind, personally.



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O_E: Your Super-Ego's Favorite Poster.



"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "Cosmic Slop"

Curtis - and later in the piece, Effie - drive the story. the other three girls are just along for the ride. The film version gives Deena a little more to do in terms of her big number and (*spoiler*) her providing the evidence to undo Curtis. But no, just because the film's called "Dreamgirls" doesn't mean the Dreams drive the story.

That's what's wrong with Foxx's Curtis: Curtis is supposed to be this slick-talking dynamo. He has to have enough charisma and visible drive so that he could convince you to hand over your mother's retirement checks. Foxx was one of the least well-reviewed elements of the film, but I'm not repeating others' critiques; when I first saw the film during an early preview, I didn't say "oh my." I said "Foxx is the weakest link here."

It just looks like Foxx isn't enjoying the role and isn't giving it his all. On his radio show, he's spoken of beefs he had with Murphy onset. On screen, he just looks bored.

Also, this being a musical, we must take to task Foxx's singing, which is horrible. He ruined one of the most important songs in the film, "When I First Saw You". There were people in the theater thanking Jesus that he didn't sing at the end of the picture when Deena leaves him (in the play, Curtis sings a brief reprise of "When I First Saw You")

I mean, are you just being contrarian (© SoWhat in the Lesson) just for shits and giggles?

>he didn't deserve that sh*t. if anything Jamie did the real
>acting work in Dreamgirls.

I can't think of another performance that's touching it

Right now

By December 31, however, that may be a different story
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too soon to say give him the award just yet though, lot more movies coming out.

they don't like the "sadistic/scary" joker. if he played that shit how jack nicholson played it, then these mofos would happy go lucky about the shit. for real, heath ledger became that character. when I first saw the trailers I didn't *know* that was heath ledger...that's how captivating he was. and for what he was giving, he played the role to it's fullest. i found him funny and scary...which I think makes a good joker. I mean funny haha joker is cool BUT funny and scary is better. and before he died, jack nicholson said that heath played it better than he did. BEFORE he died. there was a lot of talk about this movie BEFORE he died. people aren't just saying this because he died. he really took in that role.