I just read about this film that was shown at CANNES called "shortbus" and in the film apparently they show all out uncut raw sex scenes. they compared the scenes in this movie to a scene in an older movie called "9 songs"...I was like "naaah no way" so i went and got the clip they were talking about and low and behold: they are performing oral sex on each other and even SHOWED actual penetration.

cmon people -I HOPE this isnt the new direction films are going in...and I hope this isn't what young filmmakers are considering the new "edgy" style of filmmaking...and how is having all out SEX on camera considered "ACTING"? Am I making a big deal out of nothing? somebody help me out...

It's just something to get people's attention. If anything, this wont catch on. I think people are smarter (especially film makers who make good/great films) to not believe the hype. Plus, if people wanted to watch oral sex, they rather watch porn, and not waste their time with plots and real acting. That's my opinion.

Don't worry.

And that Spike TV channel...they had Sniper 2 & 3 playing, you can't say that's NOT good TV.

second of all, if you are really the student of film that you claim to be, you would know that this is nowhere even close to the first time that this has happened... this isn't "the new direction film is going in." there's been films like this for more than 30 years now.

so just spare us the moral outrage.

No message

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mainstream_films_with_unsimulated_sex

It's not even a complete list.

Emmanuelle (1974) - in the first film in this long-running series, a dancer is shown inserting a cigarette into her vagina and then blowing smoke out of it.

Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song (1971) - Melvin Van Peebles directed this film that reportedly included unsimulated sex scenes. Van Peebles claimed to have contracted a sexually transmitted disease while filming and successfully filed for worker's compensation.

>- yes, I read it and said "who gives a shit about all that?"
>so i erased it. but i didnt expect it to get anybody
>angry...but just to piss you off even more, I'm going to be
>working on "something" in the ATL this summer, and I might be
>doing some work for TV-ONE if shit falls through...please
>respond with more of your anger...PLEASE!!!

read my blog, homie.

you studied films in school... i made them. and will continue to do so.


all i did was point out how irrelevant your supposed credentials are to the discussion. especially when your allegedly well-studied ass somehow managed to miss the huge wave of films featuring unsimulated sex from the early 1970s onwards.

if you got an opinion, state it and defend it with pride. don't give us this spiel about your education and your favorite directors to try to lend some sort of false credibility to your opinion.

and why am I just now hearing about it?

but yeah... i'm shooting a feature in a few weeks with OKP afrobongo and another dude in Nigeria

Yeah, I'm reading the blogs now. I know this is gonna sound premature, but congratulations. Just on taking the risk, carpeing the diem and doing the damn thing. Very ballsy.

Guess I'll bookmark these and keep tabs on the progress. You oughta keep folks here posted, too. Now is not the time to adopt a 'stop snitching' ethos. Hype that shit!

yeah, we've talked in the past about conquering our inherent instincts against self-promotion... i'm working on it!

Do you know if it will get a stateside release at any point? I'm guessing it's a little premature to be asking that.

Put up some footage on your blog as your shooting though! I want to live vicariously through it.

>Put up some footage on your blog as your shooting though! I
>want to live vicariously through it.

i'm definitely gonna try to do that.

as for stateside release... well, i hope so! but that's hardly in my hands at the moment. for now, we're just focused on shooting the best film we possibly can and then seeing who wants to watch it!

It takes a lot of balls to take the chances you are

I hope it works out for you

i'm a bit embarrassed about the way this post has turned into a festival of congratulation for me, but hey... like i said, i truly, truly appreciate all the kind thoughts and words.

i'll try to knock it out the park

for now, we're just focused on
>shooting the best film we possibly can and then seeing who
>wants to watch it!

...as soon as it's available.

"Quienes argumentan que el arte no debe propagar doctrinas, se refieren a doctrinas contrarias a las suyas" - Jorge Luis Borges

and I'm with buckshot on this, now's not the time to stage a media blackout, keep us posted...
___________________________________________________________________________________________
A thick b****
with big legs
yeah
it's Gutfest '89

thanks

I hope it comes out well. You're from around Boston, right? I live in Boston, and I'd love to get a DVD when everything is said and done.

~~~~~

Breathe and know you're breathing.

~~~~~

Breathe and know you're breathing.

PTP men are so goddamn sexy...

yeah, it was funny enough for me to laugh my ass off twice

you need your ass for butt sex

lol

Congrats man. I wish you all the luck in the multiverse.

You gonna find a way to fit in a Cody Chesnutt song or two into the film?

>You gonna find a way to fit in a Cody Chesnutt song or two
>into the film?

maybe not this time, but there's a role in another script i'm working on that i wrote specifically for him... so we'll see!

j/k... best of luck with this man

hopefully you'll keep us posted

from you telling someone you don't give a fuck about their credentials to everyone applauding yours. (not really what's happening, but it seems funny anyway)

To digress even further, I hope you're taking into account those movies I sent you when making yours (especially Last Supper) LOL.

best o luck brother.

>To digress even further, I hope you're taking into account
>those movies I sent you when making yours (especially Last
>Supper) LOL.

which one of these bloggy things has a synopsis. I tried looking around but then get frustrated.

cool shit man...like the others said keep us posted...i'd be really interested in the end result

Good luck!!! I always wanted to make a movie but I've realized that my self-biographical storyline is too close to "Play it again, sam". Anyway, if the movie makes any kind of noise, it will most likely be shown at the Gothenburg film festival-they show about 20 movies produced in Africa every year and I've noticed that they aren't too picky, LOL! (just kidding). BTW, the Ofege track in your blog was great...

>>- yes, I read it and said "who gives a shit about all
>that?"
>>so i erased it. but i didnt expect it to get anybody
>>angry...but just to piss you off even more, I'm going to be
>>working on "something" in the ATL this summer, and I might
>be
>>doing some work for TV-ONE if shit falls through...please
>>respond with more of your anger...PLEASE!!!
>
>read my blog, homie.
>
>you studied films in school... i made them. and will continue
>to do so.

- muthafucka and I HAVENT!?!? I havent made a feature (yet), but I've put in the work. I've also done some voiceover work too...plus I'm under 25 years old...

>all i did was point out how irrelevant your supposed
>credentials are to the discussion. especially when your
>allegedly well-studied ass somehow managed to miss the huge
>wave of films featuring unsimulated sex from the early 1970s
>onwards.

- whose heard of these films though? and only a handful of them were made in the states, AND SOME OF THESE AMERICAN FILMS I HAVE SEEN, BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN THE DIRECTORS CUT MEANING THAT THEY WERE RELEASED WITH THE SEXUAL STIMULATION EDITED...I've seen sweetbacks badass song, AND IN THE CUT but the versions I saw didn't show any sexual stimulation...

>if you got an opinion, state it and defend it with pride.
>don't give us this spiel about your education and your
>favorite directors to try to lend some sort of false
>credibility to your opinion.

- said the man who hasn't even added one thing to the post other than to say what i had already stated about myself...30+ replies to this post yet nobody has given their opinions about whether they think these scenes are necessary...but I wish you luck man, do you and I will do me.

>- muthafucka and I HAVENT!?!? I havent made a feature (yet),
>but I've put in the work. I've also done some voiceover work
>too...plus I'm under 25 years old...

i'm so happy for you.

seriously... i'm not even being facetious. i look forward to seeing your work.

this is where you start going crazy, though:

>- whose heard of these films though? and only a handful of
>them were made in the states, AND SOME OF THESE AMERICAN FILMS
>I HAVE SEEN, BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN THE DIRECTORS CUT MEANING THAT
>THEY WERE RELEASED WITH THE SEXUAL STIMULATION EDITED...I've
>seen sweetbacks badass song, AND IN THE CUT but the versions I
>saw didn't show any sexual stimulation...

dude... you prefaced your post with a disclaimer reminding us of how educated you are in film but now you're saying "well... i haven't seen those films because they weren't made in the States"?

and a lot of those movies are actually quite well-known films that i would expect most film students would have seen, or at least know about.

>- said the man who hasn't even added one thing to the post
>other than to say what i had already stated about myself...30+
>replies to this post yet nobody has given their opinions about
>whether they think these scenes are necessary...but I wish you
>luck man, do you and I will do me.

because nobody thinks that it's worth much discussion, probably.

>this is where you start going crazy, though:
>
>>- whose heard of these films though? and only a handful of
>>them were made in the states, AND SOME OF THESE AMERICAN
>FILMS
>>I HAVE SEEN, BUT I HAVEN'T SEEN THE DIRECTORS CUT MEANING
>THAT
>>THEY WERE RELEASED WITH THE SEXUAL STIMULATION EDITED...I've
>>seen sweetbacks badass song, AND IN THE CUT but the versions
>I
>>saw didn't show any sexual stimulation...
>
>dude... you prefaced your post with a disclaimer reminding us
>of how educated you are in film but now you're saying "well...
>i haven't seen those films because they weren't made in the
>States"?

- EMMANUELLE 5? nigga what film school shows EMMANUELLE movies!? But I have seen a good number of foreign films, including Irreversible that is on this list, and that RAPE scene was over the top in my opinion but was essential to the story and plus there was no visible penetration - the other scenes I didn't see or they were edited from the version i saw...but no, alot of the films that I've watched and studied are indeed american films. I am biased in that regards...and i still refuse to watch Brown Bunny.

*edit* but don't get it twisted - maybe u can argue that I got a faux education, but we learned and studied avant-garde and watched films like Triumph of the Will and The Hidden Fortress...these are TRUE CLASSICS and films that shaped cinema...

>and a lot of those movies are actually quite well-known films
>that i would expect most film students would have seen, or at
>least know about.

- LOL...I know emmanuelle movies but that doesn't mean any respectable film student should know about it...plus, I minored in film studies, my major was in broadcast communications...

>>- said the man who hasn't even added one thing to the post
>>other than to say what i had already stated about
>myself...30+
>>replies to this post yet nobody has given their opinions
>about
>>whether they think these scenes are necessary...but I wish
>you
>>luck man, do you and I will do me.
>
>because nobody thinks that it's worth much discussion,
>probably.

- please. read the last 5 or 6 replies...I plan on responding 2 them now.

best of luck, Af!

Although it wasn't shown, the commentary of the movie said that sex scenes with Russell Crowe and Jacqueline MacKenzie and Daniel Pollack and MacKenzie were for real.

-------------------
Fear the Drury.

At least of the ones I've seen, they're done with some kind of dramatic or thematic push, and there's no real "tittilation" at all. It's like uncomfortable or weird sex, or different or unsettling in some way, and if done right, it's an extremely intimate view into the relationship between the two characters.

Yeah, it's definitely done for attention, too, but don't act like they're just randomly throwing porn on screen and seeing if it sticks. That's Caligula, not these movies.

Sex in movies is always a weird point. If you're not just throwing it in for the audience appeal, you always have to answer a lot of tough questions about why and how you're going to put it in there.

>Yeah, it's definitely done for attention, too, but don't act
>like they're just randomly throwing porn on screen and seeing
>if it sticks. That's Caligula, not these movies.

- I havent seen 9 songs nor do I plan on seeing THE BROWN BUNNY - but I have seen those "scenes", and for the life of me, I just don't see the reason to actually SHOW IT. i think you can get the same message across just by showing stimulated sex acts...i dunno, maybe i'm not that "artsy" or whatever...

>- I havent seen 9 songs nor do I plan on seeing THE BROWN
>BUNNY - but I have seen those "scenes", and for the life of
>me, I just don't see the reason to actually SHOW IT. i think
>you can get the same message across just by showing stimulated
>sex acts...i dunno, maybe i'm not that "artsy" or whatever...

I haven't watched those movies, but I have seen Romance and I Am Curious (which was the real one that struck down the obscenity laws, as far as I know) and a few others, I think (I'm blanking right now). The scenes make you sit and wonder what's going on. It's UNcomfortable or weird, and that IS the point.

And you DO see an extremely intimate moment between two characters. It offers an insight into how they relate with each other which can't just be "explained" or shown in other ways as effectively as just putting the hardcore sex up on screen. That's the whole point of film, isn't it? To be able to convery message and meaning through the moving picture? If done appropriately and in the right context, a graphic sex scene should be able to do EXACTLY that.

Are you opposed to simulated sex scenes in film as well? Or is it only the "real" stuff which inspires your concern?

he's showing isn't meant to be erotic, it's not meant to arouse.
___________________________________________________________________________________________
A thick b****
with big legs
yeah
it's Gutfest '89

go figure.

It's not the most interesting experiment, but it's certainly not meant to be palpitable to mainstream audiences. It's basically a loose narrative about a couple who is united by intense sex and indie rock music, and the sex is the focus of the film. I didn't particularly like it, but it was the most important part of the film.

El Topo, The Pillowbook, there are plenty of films that have unsimulated or extremely graphic sex that are extremely good films. I'm a fan of Richard Kern's short films, which are pretty graphic. I don't see any logical reason why cinema shouldn't show real sex, since it's arguably the most driving factor in the lives of a lot of people.

I only remember the weird mole people part of it.

.

>but either way, this post is 33 replies deep and nobody has
>yet to address whether they think showing all out RAW uncut
>sex is necessary in film. also, whether or not actors actually
>having sex with one another is ACTING.

You just haven't responded to them.

Frankly, you have yet to address why showing "all out RAW uncut sex" is *UN*necessary in film, and considering most people's basic assumption is that filmmakers can do whatever they damn well please and we'll judge its effect when we see it, you'll have to do some convincing on the point of why it's *IN*appropriate should a filmmaker choose to show a little P'n'V.

*blink*

but lots of things in films arent. most 'real sex' seems featured to either get attention or shock.

porn has gotten mainstream enough in the last ten years so i dont really need to see more real sex when i go to the cinema, but it might actually become more accepted these days, rather than just being on the indie/arthouse fringes.

i saw a brazilian film earlier this year i dont remember the name of that opened with a girl giving this middle aged guy a blow job. the film wasnt especially remarkable except for the blow jobs and real intercourse but i wish i could remember what it was called

But congrats 2 the man who made the necessary post jack. Best of luck AFKAP & do keep us posted.

1. The topic.

2. The more interesting sub-topic, that of AFKAP shooting a movie

3. The only reason number two is funny: Normally I'd have nothing but instant praise for the man, but based on the subject of the thread, without reading his blog I just assumed that he meant he was shooting a porn with afrobongo and some other guy, and that this was how he was revealing it. The fact that everyone was like "Good job, can't wait to see it playa!!!", just anticipating his debut of "Phat Ass Nigerian Girlz vol. 1". I'm still kind of cracking up over here.

Seriously though, good luck Afkap! If at all possible, I'd definitely like to see the flick when it's done! Not sure the scale of things (still haven't looked at said blog), but if it gets a release, I'll get at it.

HI

LAR

I

OUS!

>3. The only reason number two is funny: Normally I'd have
>nothing but instant praise for the man, but based on the
>subject of the thread, without reading his blog I just assumed
>that he meant he was shooting a porn with afrobongo and some
>other guy, and that this was how he was revealing it. The fact
>that everyone was like "Good job, can't wait to see it
>playa!!!", just anticipating his debut of "Phat Ass Nigerian
>Girlz vol. 1". I'm still kind of cracking up over here.

sounds like someone took ali g's advice on how to make a great movie

- pretty soon, all sex scenes in films are going to be "unsimulated"..

Cannes sex films question role of porn, Internet
Wed May 24, 2006 11:11 AM ET



By Kerstin Gehmlich and Mike Collett-White

CANNES, France (Reuters) - Directors at the Cannes film festival this year say they are using radical images of sex to challenge mainstream pornography and its widespread availability on the Internet.

A series of filmmakers say Internet porn alone now shapes many young people's perception of sex and, in many cases, replaces the experience of real physical relationships.

"There are kids who have seen pornography from a very early age, before they are ever gonna have sex," said Larry Clark, one of the directors of the eccentric "Destricted" -- a compilation of explicit sex-centered stories.

In his own short film, Clark interviews young men about their sexual preferences and then allows one candidate to appear with his favorite porn-star.

"When I was a kid noone told me nothing. Now you can go onto the Internet and find out anything ... (Young people) are looking at pornography and they are thinking that this is the way to have sex," Clark said, noting his film was educational.

U.S. director John Cameron Mitchell, who has brought "Shortbus" to Cannes, agrees that young people are increasingly using the Internet to replace real sex.

In Shortbus, he has collected an ensemble of non-professional actors who engage in real on-screen sex and masturbation in an attempt to de-mystify the subject. He does not consider his film to be pornography.

He said that the United States had a puritanical view of sex which turned it into an issue in young people's minds. In one particularly provocative scene in his film, three gay men engage in a sex session while singing "The Star-Spangled Banner".

"I really believe our country specifically needs to take a look at that stuff. You crush something, it pops up somewhere else, it comes back to haunt you," he said.

UNEROTIC SEX

Journalists watching the film generally agreed that Mitchell had succeeded in taking much of the eroticism out of the sex.

Film critics in Cannes say risque images, which would be considered distasteful by many were they to be shown in a mainstream movie theater, are unlikely to shock a film festival audience, and in any case are not necessarily new.

Michael Winterbottom used real sex, for example, in his 2004 film "9 Songs".

"When you have run the whole gamut of sexual positions, you've lost the power to shock," Screen magazine wrote.

Danish director Anders Morgenthaler reverted to animation to hit out at the porn industry in his film "Princess", which disturbed some by portraying child abuse and violence.

Morgenthaler tells the story of a priest who is determined to destroy all films of his deceased porn star sister and to take care of her five-year old daughter, a traumatized child.

"I chose animation for the obvious reason that if I had made it a live action piece you would have probably left the theater. It would have been too terrifying to see a girl go through that," Morgenthaler told Reuters.

"I decided to make a film about porn influence in society because I saw porn seeking its way into everything, into clothes or toys. There is a 'porn way' of selling things because it sells very well. I got very angry at the role of porn."

Digital sex will feature in the British-Norwegian co-production "Free Jimmy", while ex-porn star HPG shows a porn actor trying to get into regular films in "We Should Not Exist".