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Forum nameThe Lesson
Topic subjectName MC's who are average but shine on others' songs
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=3029478
3029478, Name MC's who are average but shine on others' songs
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Mon Jan-04-21 08:29 PM
This post is inspired by Memphis Bleek. He seemed to come off well when he was featured on other people's tracks (It's Alright, 'Round Here, others) but could never translate that energy to his own full-length albums.

Inspectah Deck qualifies for me as well, but I know some people really like his on LP and may feel his name shouldn't be included with Bleek's.

Are there other MC's like Bleek?

3029479, Bleek and Deck aren't average
Posted by Garhart Poppwell, Mon Jan-04-21 08:43 PM
and for opposing reasons, but this has the makings for a fantastic thread
3029527, I didn't use proper phrasing
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Tue Jan-05-21 08:54 PM
By 'average', I meant an MC without a classic solo or group project.

I've never heard Deck's solo album (and maybe I should) but I've never heard it talked about as a legendary album. But he has truly iconic guest spots.

That's the type of rapper I failed to describe.
3029529, But you still aren’t making sense
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Jan-05-21 09:10 PM
>By 'average', I meant an MC without a classic solo or group
>project.
>

Please tell me how Deck fits this when he has the best verses on multiple group classics?

>I've never heard Deck's solo album (and maybe I should) but
>I've never heard it talked about as a legendary album. But he
>has truly iconic guest spots.
>
>That's the type of rapper I failed to describe.
3029536, Deck has great verses but doesn't have a great album on his own.
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Wed Jan-06-21 03:16 AM
Basically, I'm thinking of an MC who is good, but much better on features than their own work.
3029537, Did you even read what YOU wrote?
Posted by Anonymous, Wed Jan-06-21 08:47 AM
You said an MC who doesn’t have a great solo OR group album.

Are Wu albums not considered Deck’s group albums?

You are making zero sense my man
3029559, I didn't realize that I added the group reference.
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Thu Jan-07-21 12:19 AM
I didn't mean to extend the criteria to group albums.
3029665, So would someone like Bun B count?
Posted by Anonymous, Fri Jan-08-21 10:43 PM
I’m legit confused.

Bun is a great MC within UGK and guest spots but his solos have been average IMO.

Does that mean he is an average MC who is great on guest spots even though he is ALSO great in his group which is his main contribution to hip-hop?

How is that different than Deck?
3029697, I'm not familiar much with Bun B so I can't comment much on him
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Sun Jan-10-21 10:48 PM
But by 'average', I meant that the MC is better on features or posse cuts than they are on the records that we normally hear them.

For instance Deck, to me, would qualify because he was better in a group setting and on posse cuts than he was on his solo records.

But to be honest, I've never heard Deck's full album so maybe it is dope and I am speaking out of my ass by mentioning him in the same vein as Bleek.

It's funny that for some reason the wording of this post threw people off. (I'm not speaking directly to you only, Anonymous)

Normally, I choose my words fairly carefully when posting here. But for this post, I just threw something out there, trying to be spontaneous and I did not expect the fallout.

The lesson for The Lesson - always come prepared. LOL
3029699, I think there are two things you messed up...
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Jan-11-21 12:11 AM
1. The word “average” seems to be confusing people. Deck is NOT an average MC at all so using him as your example was odd. The post title for your example should’ve been “Dope MCs who haven’t released a great album” or something like that.

Second...when you added in the group portion it just made the post more confusing. Andre 3000 is great in Kast and on guest spots but hasn’t released a great album by himself. So by the way you worded the post and then further explained, he would be an average MC which we all know if crazy.

LOL *shrugs*
3029589, The Czarface records were Dope as well!
Posted by Adwhizz, Thu Jan-07-21 02:26 PM
Deck is a GREAT team player

3029484, Method Man count?
Posted by melmag, Mon Jan-04-21 10:05 PM
.
3029494, No. He's WAY above average.
Posted by Brew, Tue Jan-05-21 10:57 AM
3029530, WAY above average...and it’s odd that...
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Jan-05-21 09:12 PM
People are naming Wu members like their albums don’t consist of 36 Chambers, Forever and The W on top of their own solo projects.

Tical, T2 and 4:21 are ALL great hip-hop albums.
3029543, C'mon, Method Man Is Like One Of The Best Emcees In Wu-Tang
Posted by Dj Joey Joe, Wed Jan-06-21 01:42 PM
Method Man shouldn't even be in this discussion at all, I feel the same for Inspectah Deck but it's fact that him pulling off a great solo album never translate well, he got rhymes & verses it's just he don't have a good executive producer for his solo albums to bring out the best in him, I personally liked his first album (yeah it had a few duds on it but to me every rap album has at least one of them) but it wasn't as great as it should've been.


3029658, His guest appearances are way better than his own joints for real.
Posted by Castro, Fri Jan-08-21 08:55 PM
3029664, I don't want to agree with you...
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Fri Jan-08-21 10:40 PM
I don't want to agree with you because Meth was my favorite rapper for a while. But you're right. He has some classic songs but his albums have never lived up to the potential, at least for me.

But his work as a guest artist is amazing, as is his work with Redman. It didn't seem clear when he began his career that he needed the group dynamic to bring out his best, but it is now in hindsight.

3029491, Cappadonna n/m
Posted by phemom, Tue Jan-05-21 07:16 AM
3029516, You have lost your rabbit ass mind
Posted by allStah, Tue Jan-05-21 04:19 PM
3029531, So The Pillage is a classic but Enigma and Jealous One’s Envy are not?
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Jan-05-21 09:13 PM
I think you lost your rabbit ass mind
3029497, Ja Rule?
Posted by maro, Tue Jan-05-21 11:43 AM

werd.
3029809, Venni Vetti Vecci is fkn dope
Posted by nativesun07, Wed Jan-20-21 12:09 PM
3029498, MED?
Posted by maro, Tue Jan-05-21 11:44 AM

werd.
3029500, Consequence
Posted by Dstl1, Tue Jan-05-21 12:38 PM
.
3029501, RE: Name MC's who are average but shine on others' songs
Posted by Oak27, Tue Jan-05-21 12:48 PM
I'm struggling to think of rappers who shine on others songs but are average in skill. I'm immediately coming back to rappers with great guest spots and who are just great in general, but have average/below average albums.

Inspectah Deck specifically fits in that category. He is by no means average. He has some of the best verses in Wu's discography, he's just never been able to replicate that level of dopeness on his own solo shit, though a flood is part to blame for that. The Czarface shit is pretty repetitive by the second album too.

This thread would be easier if it were "Name MC's whose guest spots overshadow their discographies" or something like that.
3029502, Me too. And were that the criteria, Meth would qualify.
Posted by Brew, Tue Jan-05-21 12:51 PM
Just to revisit a response I sent above.

Another who would qualify is Ludacris. Guy was the king of guest spots in the early to mid 00s, but his albums were very uneven to say the least.


>I'm immediately coming back to
>rappers with great guest spots and who are just great in
>general, but have average/below average albums.
3029503, Luda is *the* guy I think of when I interpret the question this way
Posted by Oak27, Tue Jan-05-21 12:52 PM
3029526, You've nailed the gist of my idea
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Tue Jan-05-21 08:52 PM
I didn't quite know how to describe Deck or Bleek. They've had really great features. Like Deck is a legend off of Triumph along and Bleek's verse on It's Alright is classic.

But neither of them have a 'classic' as a solo project.

So, now that we've gone back and forth about it, I meant to say a rapper without a classic.
3029504, Ma$e. Gucci Mane.
Posted by CIPHA, Tue Jan-05-21 01:36 PM
3029510, Krumb Snatcha
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Jan-05-21 03:32 PM
3029666, RE: Krumb Snatcha
Posted by spidey, Fri Jan-08-21 11:17 PM
Right and exact...MURDERED a lot of his guest spots..
3029511, Freddie Foxxx
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Jan-05-21 03:34 PM
*ducks*

I think over the course of his entire albums...he’s an average MC. Dope for sure but his flow isn’t great and his lyrics are pretty basic for the most part.

I’m debating if I would call him average but what’s the honest scale here?

I don’t see average as bad or wack by any means.

*shrugs*
3029709, RE: I don't know if Foxxxx fits or not
Posted by Garhart Poppwell, Mon Jan-11-21 05:02 PM
>*ducks*
>
>I think over the course of his entire albums...he’s an
>average MC. Dope for sure but his flow isn’t great and his
>lyrics are pretty basic for the most part.
>

I like his rhymes a lot and his voice cuts to tape a certain way, but I think he's as good as anyone when it comes to creating tension and a sense of mood on his albums. For me that's what keeps me there, I just love hearing him rap but I get exactly what you're saying


>I’m debating if I would call him average but what’s the
>honest scale here?
>
>I don’t see average as bad or wack by any means.
>
>*shrugs*

I see what you're saying and that honestly makes more sense than how the OP had it set up. That's why I said I'm not sure if he fits or not
3029715, Freddie Foxxx would count
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Mon Jan-11-21 07:09 PM
He's great in group settings but he also doesn't have a classic or masterpiece. It's hard to call him average but in that light I don't think many would think of him as a 'great' rapper.
3029515, Chali 2na?
Posted by mista k5, Tue Jan-05-21 04:13 PM
dope voice. not wack at all but not sure hes better than average in the big scheme of things. hes great on tracks with other rappers but theres few songs with only him rapping for three verses that i love.

maybe?
3029517, Keith Murray.
Posted by allStah, Tue Jan-05-21 04:26 PM
Keith Murray dope on Hostile, fatty girl, special deliver remix, I shot ya...
But released average albums.

And Fat Joe ..albums average. But better on guest appearances.
3029518, Enigma and Jealous One’s Envy are both classics
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Jan-05-21 06:09 PM
3029519, absolute classics
Posted by Dstl1, Tue Jan-05-21 06:43 PM
.
3029528, Keith Murray's 1st album was anything but average.
Posted by Shaun Tha Don, Tue Jan-05-21 09:07 PM
3029532, Yeah...I prefer Enigma but his debut is dope too
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Jan-05-21 09:13 PM
3029535, Drake's a pedestrian rapper who makes every song he's featured on
Posted by Tiger Woods, Wed Jan-06-21 12:17 AM

I mean, "Sicko Mode" is Travis Scott's song sure, but Drake makes it.

Meek's "RICO"
Future's "Where Ya At"
Blocboy JB's "Look Alive" (who you'll never hear from again)

just some of the more fun examples. I find Drake to be a tedious listen for a full album's-worth of content, but it's always exciting when he's in a big feature spot.
3029540, i think this is the winner
Posted by mista k5, Wed Jan-06-21 10:15 AM
3029541, Good one.
Posted by Brew, Wed Jan-06-21 10:55 AM
Also the scrapped "Aston Martin Music" verse that's probably the best of his career.
3029542, Drake has never had a good verse in his life
Posted by Anonymous, Wed Jan-06-21 12:24 PM
3029614, Sicko Mode has to be one of Drake's greatest performances of his career.
Posted by Shaun Tha Don, Thu Jan-07-21 07:11 PM
3029663, Nice example
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Fri Jan-08-21 10:37 PM
3029539, Guilty Simpson
Posted by chincheckin, Wed Jan-06-21 09:42 AM
3029549, Busta
Posted by CondoM, Wed Jan-06-21 06:05 PM
3029552, So Busta is an average MC now?
Posted by Anonymous, Wed Jan-06-21 06:24 PM
What does that make everyone outside of the Top 50?

Because clearly Busta is NOT lower than that on any respectable list.
3029617, I mean AZ is probably in your top 5.
Posted by CondoM, Thu Jan-07-21 09:35 PM
The dude had two above average albums in the 90s and everything since? Garbage.

Yet he'll murder and guest appearance.
3029659, What does that have to do with Busta doe?
Posted by Anonymous, Fri Jan-08-21 09:26 PM
Not to mention you’re wrong because 9 Lives and Aziatic attire dope as shit too.

*shrugs*
3029667, Aziatic isn’t even arguable....that’s a strong album
Posted by DJR, Fri Jan-08-21 11:24 PM
And then Jay bit what he was already doing, for the 2nd time.

AWOL was a good album too, and that was 05. Imagine saying that and Aziatic are garbage, smh.
3029668, Aziatic is an absolute classic to me
Posted by Anonymous, Fri Jan-08-21 11:46 PM
I’ve grown to be content with people shitting on anything he does for whatever reason.

I’ve heard the dumbest shit online.

He’s a poor version of Nas
Doe Or Die sucked because of the production
He’s technically so good that he’s boring

*shrugs*
3029683, The two above average albums refer to Busta, not your boyfriend.
Posted by CondoM, Sat Jan-09-21 04:38 PM
3029684, I’m curious which 2 are the above average ones to you?
Posted by DJR, Sat Jan-09-21 04:54 PM
Because I’ve got The Coming, When Disaster Strikes, ELE, The Big Bang, and his new one as at least “above average”.

Plus he did that Dillagence mixtape that was heat.
3029695, The Coming and Disaster Strikes
Posted by CondoM, Sun Jan-10-21 10:29 PM
ELE is aight. I'd rate Genesis above the others you listed, but even that it's not something I'd ever go out of my way to listen to.
3029685, Aren’t you an Eminem stan?
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Jan-09-21 05:01 PM
3029696, I'd put him well ahead of Busta.
Posted by CondoM, Sun Jan-10-21 10:30 PM
He's only got 3 good albums himself though.
3029700, Yeah but you’re failing to mention one thing...
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Jan-11-21 12:14 AM
That you don’t know shit about hip-hop and have been proving so for over a decade.

Also, you fuck kangaroo pouches so *shrug*
3029701, this is just flat out wrong
Posted by blackfoot_female, Mon Jan-11-21 04:39 AM
it's one thing to say you don't care for Busta's albums, but saying he only has two decent albums and nothing else but garbage is not an opinion, it's simply wrong.
3029560, Peedi Crakk
Posted by blueeclipse, Thu Jan-07-21 01:20 AM
Always dope when he hops on. His own shit.....ehhhhh
3029562, Phil Da Agony
Posted by Original Juice, Thu Jan-07-21 03:52 AM
3029698, Wait does he have any solo albums?
Posted by herbiehowsermc, Sun Jan-10-21 11:03 PM
I never thought about it but he must.
3029702, 4 i believe plus some eps
Posted by blackfoot_female, Mon Jan-11-21 04:41 AM
.
3029778, 2 Chainz
Posted by will_5198, Fri Jan-15-21 06:56 PM
although I like his solo stuff, he's really best as a cameo
3029780, Great call. He may be the only one who rivals Ludacris in this category.
Posted by Brew, Fri Jan-15-21 10:33 PM
Every guest verse I hear, I love.

But his albums I can take or leave.
3029797, I think the title of this post is off. Because I do think Method Man, Busta
Posted by Buddy_Gilapagos, Tue Jan-19-21 02:20 PM
and 2 Chainz are MCs who murder guest appearances but don't have great albums on the same level.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
3029799, I agree that the title is off
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Jan-19-21 05:55 PM
Because you can kill guest spots, have albums that don’t live up to those guest spots and still be an above average MC.