per reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/hiphopheads/comments/e9gtgx/royce_da_59_announces_new_music_the_allegory/

https://i.imgur.com/JkOJQFR.png

Release Date: 1/24/2020

Tracklist:
1. Mr. Grace

2. Dope Man

3. I Don't Age

4. Pendulum (ft. Ashley Sorrell)

5. I Play Forever (ft. Grafh)

6. Ice Cream (Interlude)

7. The Block (ft. Oswin Benjamin)

8. A Generation Is Broken

9. Over Comer (ft. Westside Gunn)

10. Ms Grace (Interlude)

11. Thou Shall (ft. Kid Vishis)

12. FUBU (ft. Conway the Machine)

13. A Black Man's Favorite Shoe

14. Upside Down (ft. Ashley Sorrell & Benny the Butcher)

15. Perspective

16. Tricked (ft. KXNG Crooked)

17. Black People In America

18. Black Savage (ft. Sy Ari Da Kid, White Gold, CyHi the Prynce & T.I.)

19. Rhinestone Doo Rag

20. Young World (ft. YBN Cordae & G Perico)

21. My People Free (ft. Ashley Sorrell)

22. Hero (ft. White Gold)

That's too many songs tho haha.

royce showed he can make a full length album that is great. in general i would be looking at albums being around 12 songs though. id say royce needs at least 16 lol

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

or that's what he alluded to on the Joe Budden podcast.

hopefully everything is on the same level as those two tracks. thats the only thing that concerns me about the length. if he produced it all thats quite ambitious. i think hes surrounded himself with good help though.

How’s that for learning how to make beats?
Haha.

I’m curious to see if Royce who is a master of flows
finds even more ridiculous pockets to rhyme in...

Some of the best beat makers that have ill flows over their own beats
come from Detroit:

Dilla
Black Milk
Ta’Raach

>RE: Yep and production tutors are Preemo, Nottz, bink! & Mr Porter

>How’s that for learning how to make beats?
>Haha.
>
>I’m curious to see if Royce who is a master of flows
>finds even more ridiculous pockets to rhyme in...
>
>Some of the best beat makers that have ill flows over their
>own beats
>come from Detroit:
>
>Dilla
>Black Milk
>Ta’Raach

Great company to be in..

However, I just wish he would do a whole project prod by Milk.

some of it is fine but a lot of it just doesn't measure up (to me)

i guess i just hoped the production would match his pen

>some of it is fine but a lot of it just doesn't measure up
>(to me)

I'm actually feeling it very much.

It definitely has a much more raw feel to it, but I enjoy the range of styles and beat patterns he displays.

He said he doesn't always make the best beat, but he thinks he makes the right beat (to accompany what he wants to do lyrically/vocally).

I'll take Royce over a Royce beat than over an Em beat any day..

and honestly, I prefer how he sounds over his own production than over Mr. Porter beats, too. Porter may be a more polished producer, but it lacks something imo. Wasn't a big fan of Monch working with him so much either.

..but this guy! WOW!!

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>
>Peace,
>
>Spirit (Alan)
>http://wutangbook.com

Yes
over either a Black Milk or Jake One beat

....instead of the posse cut like everyone does.

Personally I'm looking forward to the song with Crooked, they both are in totally different places than when they made Gun Harmonizing so this song will probably show that.

.

Looking forward to it.

Which is saying something because that album is full of highlights.

The J. Cole feature is next.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

But no Em verse > Em verse

because I cut that album off as soon as Eminem starts rapping every time.

He wasn’t as wack as usual on Caterpillar, but that’s still not one of the highlights of the album for me. Lots of great songs on that one, and Em contributes nothing to the direction of the album. It’s just some “look at me!” BS.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJb4nLpBxm0

Maybe they’ll grow on me. I still like it. WSG is at his best here IMO. Right in his lane.

Why’s Royce dissing Yelawolf? I never got into him anyway, just curious at what’s going on.

>Maybe they’ll grow on me. I still like it. WSG is at his
>best here IMO. Right in his lane.

I've hated the drumless-song trend since it started whenever it started. IMO you gotta put *something* there even if they're lowkey/weak.


>Why’s Royce dissing Yelawolf? I never got into him anyway,
>just curious at what’s going on.

Unless someone's close w/one of them I assume no one knows yet - he said "I ain't gon' put it on blast ..."

But I'm interested to know, too. He said something about Yela being a "vulture," and also made a Kid Rock reference, so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he said and/or did some racist shit lol. Which would make this song/callout align with the direction Royce has been going with his recent output ("Black Savage" & "Field Negro" namely). It would also align with the fact that, y'know, Yela is a tatted up white dude from Alabama so chances are he's not nearly as non-racist as he prolly likes to/wants folks to think he is.

So yea I hope at some point we find out what all this is about. I saw something recently about Yela and Eminem still being cool despite the fact that Yelawolf split from Shady Records, so as little as I care about Yela (and Em, for that matter, at least recently), I'd be interested to find out whether this Yela/Royce beef has caused a new rift with the Bad Meets Evil team, a la the Royce/D12 beef back in the day.

This dude is what, like 45 ? And somehow still getting better.

I'm so glad/fortunate (like several of us here, I know) that his early-career work w/Em caught on with me, cause as a result I've been following him pretty closely throughout his entire career. And despite a misstep here and there it's been remarkable to witness how he's never stopped growing as an MC and an artist overall. He just never stopped getting better. This dude has exponentially improved his mic game and song-writing/album-crafting game consistently for damn near 20 years now.

Props to a criminally underrated legend.

It’s weird, with Royce I’ve gone like every 5 years where I’m really into him. Beyond “Boom” I didn’t pay close attention until Death Is Certain. And then I kinda checked out again until Street Hop. Checked out, then I got back in with Prhyme. Then again with Book of Ryan.

So it’s like 4 projects I was really on, in real time. Had to go back to the Bar Exams, Success is Certain, etc.

>It’s weird, with Royce I’ve gone like every 5 years where
>I’m really into him. Beyond “Boom” I didn’t pay close
>attention until Death Is Certain. And then I kinda checked
>out again until Street Hop. Checked out, then I got back in
>with Prhyme. Then again with Book of Ryan.
>
>So it’s like 4 projects I was really on, in real time. Had
>to go back to the Bar Exams, Success is Certain, etc.

I feel like most hip-hop fans went through that same exact rollercoaster with Royce's career. And rightfully so IMO, to an extent. You kinda hit the high points for the most part.

Like I'd say "Success is Certain" was a high point for him but not everybody felt that way. And obviously the Bad Meets Evil album was ass.

So there were some missteps, but I just feel like there's been very few, if any, MCs who have been this far into their careers and have found a way to grow like he has IMO.

That’s the law. That’s the rule.

I just made that up, but I think it’s true.

I'll defer to you on WSG (I am, maybe embarrassingly, not very familiar with his work) but re: Ghost I can't really disagree at all ..


>That’s the law. That’s the rule.
>
>I just made that up, but I think it’s true.

either on here or the j5 board lol. folks threw me out. i just wanted to know if it would be possible to make a rap song that didnt have any drums. not necessarily saying it would be a good thing.

if you strip a rap song down to its bare bones its a rapper and some drums right?

I was probably on that too lol

i was on that a lot and mosdefinitely too scared to post much on okp back then

Royce appears on Eminem's new album 3x haha. Guess they're fine.

Anyway Yela and Royce took Instagram shots at eachother today but I'm still not clear what their beef is. Both posts were relatively cryptic.


>I'd be interested to find out
>whether this Yela/Royce beef has caused a new rift with the
>Bad Meets Evil team, a la the Royce/D12 beef back in the day.

his beats so far have some really dope elements but there not fully there yet.

I can agree with this..

production is not quite there in terms of being at a caliber in comparison to the lyrics/vocals/flows

but it does the job

i personally like the raw sound of it.. reminds of me of underground tapes and demos from back in the day

>
>Why’s Royce dissing Yelawolf? I never got into him anyway,
>just curious at what’s going on.

Not sure of the accuracy of this, but I think it was a Vlad video where it was explained that one of Royce's proteges (a Black dude) was sent to work with Yelawolf and his DJ (another white dude) down south and these dudes were dropping hard R n-words and generally being racist in front of the youngsta and they let him know there's nothing he could do about it because that's just how they talk around there. Apparently Royce was giving Yelawolf notice.

Give me an example (like give me a minute and second from this song) I'm gonna listen for this now.

I'm a huge r59 fan and I legit don't even know what you're talking about.

And now that's prolly all I'll hear everytime I listen to him, and he'll go from my top 5 to not mentioned at all. Fuckin thanks man haha.

and the wrestling references are out of control.

slightly updated features. emanny & cedric the entertainer on dope man. premier on on the block.

1. Mr. Grace (Intro)
2. Dope Man feat. Emanny & Cedric The Entertainer
3. I Don’t Age
4. Pendulum feat. Ashley Sorrell
5. I Play Forever feat. Grafh
6. Ice Cream (Interlude)
7. On The Block feat. Oswin Benjamin & DJ Premier
8. Generation Is Broken
9. Overcomer feat. Westside Gunn
10. Mrs. Grace (Interlude)
11. Thou Shall feat. Kid Vishis
12. FUBU feat. Conway The Machine
13. A Black Man Favorite Shoe (Skit)
14. Upside Down feat. Ashley Sorrell & Benny The Butcher
15. Perspective (Skit)
16. Tricked feat. KXNG Crooked
17. Black People In America
18. Black Savage feat. Sy Ari Da Kid, White Gold, CyHi The Prynce & T.I.
19. Rhinestone Doo Rag
20. Young World feat. Vince Staples & G Perico
21. My People Free feat. Ashley Sorrell
22. Hero feat. White Gold

http://youtu.be/FaBgMAYYVQw

“Rasheed Wallace, I’m ok with a tech” -Benny

The two tracks he produced were the only two tracks I liked from the Em album.

Same/similar tempos, lacking drums, largely emotionless. The most interesting beat was easily Black Savage and we already heard that one.

He prolly shoulda eased into the production game. Maybe do like 5 or 6 tracks then let the professionals handle the rest.

It's pretty bold to drop a TWENTY TWO track self-produced album - too long even if the production is great - on your first foray into the production game.

Too bad too cause as always he's rapping his ass off. And was covering new ground so the lyrics reward repeat listens. Also too bad cause I had high hopes for his production considering the tracks that were released ahead of time.

and saying some fake deep shit, occasionally dipping into pure misinformation. Not one but TWO "vaccines gave my kid autism" lines? Sheesh.

On his Nas shit.

The production absolutely sucks and it suffers from the same thing BOR did in my opinion and that is lack of focus.

Not only is the semi-deep angle hit or miss, he still feels the need to add in the ignorant angle to maintain whatever credibility he feels he needs.

It’s a shame because he can rap his ass off but between the cringe-worthy lines, the half-baked concepts and the awful beats...this album is not good.

>it suffers from the same
>thing BOR did in my opinion and that is lack of focus.

I really enjoyed BOR, but man does it stray away from the theme and go in a diff direction too much. There needed to be some tracks left behind for it to be *GREAT*.

>Same/similar tempos, lacking drums, largely emotionless. The
>most interesting beat was easily Black Savage and we already
>heard that one.

No wonder it was the most interesting beat.

Stick to rhyming homie. I appreciate the drive but leave it to the pros.

Yesterday the album's Wiki page said "All songs produced by Royce 5'9 except 'Black Savage' produced by..." someone I couldn't remember.

So I just went back to check and answer your question, only to find that it's been updated to say that all songs were produced by Royce.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Allegory

he did lean a bit too much on popular samples but overall i loved it. the beats worked well for me. i dont age was eh, could do without it. mr grace and thou shall could be better. the rest of the tracks were great to me.

the anti-vax lines are blah and unfortunate. the overall message of the album is dope though. maybe i will come down on it after more listens but i loved it on the first listen.

it was outstanding

This album is fire beyond that. It's not even an opinion its just a boldface falsehood. Really screws with me. He may as well endorse eugenics in his rhymes.

Rappers have regurgitated poorly researched conspiracy theories for decades now. It’s only now that I’m older do I have less tolerance for it.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

Considering that Royce calls himself Malcolm and some of the content on here, I think that was deliberate.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

I really like how Hero is the unofficial sequel to Cocaine, my personal favorite off Book of Ryan and is more focused on his father’s positive attributes this time.

The songs on this record are uniquely structured. I feel like I will have to sit with this album for at least a week or so before I can fairly comment on it.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

That's just the perception of the music...and the people who make most of said music.

Nas - Poppa Was a Playa
- Nas talked about the good and the bad here, but I think ultimately it was positive.

Big KRIT - Rich Dad, Poor Dad

Ok, that’s all I got.

Even though Royce & Preemo is in my top 3 of Preemo & X
based off the joints they created before becoming a group.
But I always read on twitter and here how much people LOVE the first prhyme
album so I’m gonna give it another go.
Felt like too many collabs and just wasn’t connecting with the music but I’m gonna listen again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyrlXIIMZpI

I've always wholeheartedly disagreed that Book of Ryan had weak progression, to me it just sounded like a modern take on the sound he broke out with in the early 2000s. It was simple but effective.


Allegory is an engaging listen but I wasn't surprised after my second spin to learn Royce handled most of the beats, and the vaxx stuff makes it really hard to recommend when PRhyme, Book of Ryan and Death Is Certain are right there.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

So you only like rap with scientifically correct
lines?

Half of rap is crime obssesed insecure dude rap, and
sorta rapey

Geez

Suffice to say, a person. Can dislike music/decide to not listen to it for whatever reason they want. Your enjoyment of a thing doesn't need to adhere to any logic internal or external.

I see you guys clowning rapper A for being "fake smart"
and getting the capital of a country wrong, and then ignoring OR
outright praising rapper B's lyrics that openly promote black
death activities.

It has really done a lot of damage to the culture. And not
just rap. But black culture in general.

Either you hold people accountable for their lyrics, or
you don't.

It's his shtick. To his credit he's really good at it.

like in the movie predator

One of the most predictable dudes on here.

I like y'all....you guys are dweebs...I dig it

But you can't float an indefensible double standard

Y'all crying about some Anti-Vaxx lines while openly
Harlem Shaking to death rap...it's comedy

I HATE Anti-vaxxers WORSE than y'all do

I also hate addition, and the black death

I bang albums with lyrics that I don't agree with all the time

YALL THINK it makes you SMART to nitpick SOME rappers and
not others

it's got to stop...y'all dweebs have ruined the culture with
that shit

I mean, just be consistent, is all I'm saying.

I know you guys just like to nitpick and hate...but
the dweebery is too too too much

>Y'all crying about some Anti-Vaxx lines while openly
>Harlem Shaking to death rap...it's comedy

---I'll wait.

>I also hate addition, and the black death
>

Just yesterday I was vibin to some
real destructive to the community shit
that I do not agree with on a personal moral level AT. ALL.
but I can still enjoy it as whole without throwing it away.

Hip Hop has given us so many cringey lines by
amazing artists over super dope albums

If 2 vax lines is all you need to dismiss the album then
so be it ... we all have our line in the sand
but I do it funny on what we decide that line is

>If 2 vax lines is all you need to dismiss the album then
>so be it

Who may find it hard to enjoy the album because
of those lines. I know one doesn't mean all but

the tone from others seems to be somewhat dismissive
or at the very least those 2 lines have cast a lil shadow over
totality of the project for some people ... at the moment.

And in the next moment or listening we might pull something
else out to applaud or disagree with.

but for now, Like OE said, I do find the knit picking to
be interesting. I don't think he's saying that you have to like
the album.

His argument seems to be

Black Death & Destruction is more prevalent in the music
than Anti Vax
But we enjoy music with Black Death knowing that we don't have
subscribe to it no matter how detrimental it may actually be

So should we not do the same with 2 anti vax bars ???
In a world where we get whole discogs of Black Death
Royce has 2 anti vax bars, not a whole album just 2 bars, thats it

I get where he's coming from

Those of us who have criticized the album have cited a few reasons why. Beats, concepts, anti-vaxx lines, probably a couple others I'm forgetting.

*You* (well, OE .. but he's just a troll. You responded to him and are actually discussing the topic in earnest lol) took the anti-vaxx lines and nitpicked just that one gripe and acted like the rest of us decided that those lines, in a vacuum with no other context, were the reason we don't like the album yet.

That's not how it went though.


>Who may find it hard to enjoy the album because
>of those lines. I know one doesn't mean all but
>
>the tone from others seems to be somewhat dismissive
>or at the very least those 2 lines have cast a lil shadow
>over
>totality of the project for some people ... at the moment.
>
>And in the next moment or listening we might pull something
>else out to applaud or disagree with.
>
>but for now, Like OE said, I do find the knit picking to
>be interesting. I don't think he's saying that you have to
>like
>the album.
>
>His argument seems to be
>
>Black Death & Destruction is more prevalent in the music
>than Anti Vax
>But we enjoy music with Black Death knowing that we don't
>have
>subscribe to it no matter how detrimental it may actually be
>
>So should we not do the same with 2 anti vax bars ???
>In a world where we get whole discogs of Black Death
>Royce has 2 anti vax bars, not a whole album just 2 bars,
>thats it
>
>I get where he's coming from

I'd get where he was coming from too if he wasn't a full time, PhD-level troll haha. In instances like this he has no interest in nuanced discussion, just wants to call everyone nerds and be stubborn and trolly and shit.

But to your point I understand the overarching point, too. But the above applies, at least for me personally, in the sense that if the beats were good and the songs were overall more enjoyable, I may mention the cringey anti-vaxx lines but still be able to listen to and enjoy the music as a whole in spite of them, just like I do a lot of other music that's enjoyable in spite of the inappropriate or dishonest lyrical content.

On "Palmolive" off Bandana Gibbs dropped an anti-vaxx line:

"2018, I'm finna reclaim my fucking time and cop the Rollie flooded
Maxine Waters, fuck your poison, keep your vaccines off us"

And yet, Bandana seemed to be universally praised in The Lesson. An anti-vaxx line isn't causing anyone to dismiss the album, the album not being that great (or at least not as good as we all hoped coming off of Book of Ryan and the singles dropped) is.

To quote spirit from the Bandana thread: "Madlib snapped and Gibbs rode every beat Madlib gave him. Gibbs is also sprinkling jewels in there. Enough for me to forgive the anti vaxxer line."

>But to your point I understand the overarching point, too. But
>the above applies, at least for me personally, in the sense
>that if the beats were good and the songs were overall more
>enjoyable, I may mention the cringey anti-vaxx lines but still
>be able to listen to and enjoy the music as a whole in spite
>of them, just like I do a lot of other music that's enjoyable
>in spite of the inappropriate or dishonest lyrical content.

>On "Palmolive" off Bandana Gibbs dropped an anti-vaxx line:
>
>"2018, I'm finna reclaim my fucking time and cop the Rollie
>flooded
>Maxine Waters, fuck your poison, keep your vaccines off us"
>
>And yet, Bandana seemed to be universally praised in The
>Lesson. An anti-vaxx line isn't causing anyone to dismiss the
>album, the album not being that great (or at least not as good
>as we all hoped coming off of Book of Ryan and the singles
>dropped) is.

DOUBLE STANDARRRDZ

Not to mention all the death and destruction music on
here that gets promoted


>To quote spirit from the Bandana thread: "Madlib snapped and
>Gibbs rode every beat Madlib gave him. Gibbs is also
>sprinkling jewels in there. Enough for me to forgive the anti
>vaxxer line."
>
>>But to your point I understand the overarching point, too.
>But
>>the above applies, at least for me personally, in the sense
>>that if the beats were good and the songs were overall more
>>enjoyable, I may mention the cringey anti-vaxx lines but
>still
>>be able to listen to and enjoy the music as a whole in spite
>>of them, just like I do a lot of other music that's
>enjoyable
>>in spite of the inappropriate or dishonest lyrical content.
>


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

If a person makes a song you like, by the transitive property you must like any song that uses any of the words that person used...or you are a hypocrite.

That is genius level deduction.

Everyone can't be me

It's all good

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

All good bro, keep it moving

>To quote spirit from the Bandana thread: "Madlib snapped and
>Gibbs rode every beat Madlib gave him. Gibbs is also
>sprinkling jewels in there. Enough for me to forgive the anti
>vaxxer line."

Embarrassing


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Hi


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

That line can also be looked at as a throw away. Whereas the stuff on this album comes off as punctuations/climaxes.

I feel like Freddie has reached a point in his career where he's not to be taken seriously - in that, he raps better than most and will do that the way he learned to do it. Meanwhile Royce is doubling down on real life as source material. Not to mention he's always been a bit of a guiding figure for me - through my teen years, delinquent years, self-accounting years. Royce'll akways be cool with me.

Royce has that same physical/mental quality that makes Gibbs a wildly fun listen, but I'll bet he's mostly admired for being the lead guy in "the group Eminem put together" or however my fellow midwesterners want to spin it. He at least writes with that sort of earnest resolve Freddie doesn't, even though they're both Midwesterners. Freddie often sounds like L.A. was where he found himself. So there's more conviction to anything Royce says. And that makes his bad takes harder to stomach, same as when I sit at a bar next to somebody that I usually respect, but I had to sit next to him this one time he want off on a weird AM radio tangent.

So what he says, pointedly, on this album sucks. More than the yellow flag Gibbs earns here.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

To me, the gangster/death fantasy isn't far off from a movie. It's a relative, appreciable but no less false device.

It's a little different to me when the rhymes are (potentially) harmful to the listener in more actionable ways.

I loved when 2009-2012 rap culture was trending towards the brands of weed those rappers smoked. I'm not at all opposed to rapping as a literary/culinary activity. I just want the recipe to build, not destroy.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

It's the strongest intro since Common's Invocation (or maybe DaBaby's intro or Roddy Rich's intro).

But the album was a snooze fest afterwards. I was in to the 40+ year old black man common sense political talk of Field Nigga & Black Savage and thought the album would be that, but it was way more generic tough hood battle rap stuff that I expected.

At least based on first listen. I will give it another spin.

definitely didn't need to be 20+ tracks.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

... I agree with your assessment. Like someone above already said it was mostly half-baked concepts that he didn't execute all that well lyrically, compounded by his mostly empty, novice beats.

He can still rhyme and flow better than just about anyone, but as you said, considering the content expectations set by "Field N****" & "Black Savage," his beats from Eminem's album, and the fact that he was coming off what is probably his strongest album content-wise in Book of Ryan I had super high hopes for this.

And yea - it was way too fucking long, no matter the lyrical content or quality of beats.


>It's the strongest intro since Common's Invocation (or maybe
>DaBaby's intro or Roddy Rich's intro).
>
>But the album was a snooze fest afterwards. I was in to the
>40+ year old black man common sense political talk of Field
>Nigga & Black Savage and thought the album would be that, but
>it was way more generic tough hood battle rap stuff that I
>expected.
>
>At least based on first listen. I will give it another spin.
>
>
>definitely didn't need to be 20+ tracks.

Grow up, nerds

Do some pushups

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

https://www.complex.com/music/2020/02/royce-da-5-9-premieres-tricked-addresses-anti-vaccination-lyrics

Interviewer Shawn Setaro: One more thing about "Tricked." On the list of people doing the tricking, you have the Centers for Disease Control and the authors of other medical studies who say there's no link between vaccines and autism, when you rap, "From day one at the hospital they target our children/Say they gonna immunize 'em they somehow get autism." Why did you include lyrics saying there is?

Royce: I have a child on the spectrum. All of my kids have been vaccinated. Within the last couple of years, I started being just real, real information junkie. I started doing a lot of fact-checking and a lot of reading—a lot more reading than I was doing. You got the regular facts that get presented to you, and then you have the other facts that you got to go research. Well, I found that I was able to draw a correlation between autism and vaccination. I found vaccinations link back to autism in many ways. And my wife is not anti-vaxx. So if I was ever going to have any more kids, we'd probably have to figure out a way to meet halfway. So I'm not in any way trying to encourage people to not get their kids vaccinated. I encourage you to believe what you want to believe.

S: Isn't there a danger, being a public figure and bringing up this disproven link between autism and vaccines, that you might be discouraging your audience from getting their kids vaccinated?

R: It's not a danger, because I'm speaking the facts. People who are against the anti-vaxxers, where are their facts at? What facts do they have? Was there something that America told them? Because I operate under the edict that America is guilty until proven innocent.

S: There are studies from many different countries. It's not simply America. It's not just the CDC.

R: Okay, well, I study what I want to believe. You just go ahead and believe what you want to believe. How about that?

S: This is a belief that has been consistently disproven.

R: Do you have any kids on the spectrum?

S: No, I don't.

R: So how are you going to tell me how to feel about my son?

S: I'm not telling you how to...

R: It hasn't been disproven. It hasn't been disproven. You're telling me what you want to believe, and I'm telling you what I want to believe. It's just that simple. You don't have any facts that can say that I'm wrong. You're just telling me what you believe, and I'm fine with you believing that. But don't try to tell me what I can say and what I believe. I believe what I want to believe. And I say what I want to say. So you feel like I can believe it, then it shouldn't be anything else to talk about. What's the next question?"

Why y'all acting brand new?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I know you’re dumb as shit but I just don’t know why you’re so mad?

Why art thou mad?

You guys are nerds with horrible values who use
double standards

Are you a dum dum?

Rap been ignorant

Why is this different?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Hoping I can still find a way to enjoy his music after reading something so dumb

You guys are such pretentious nerds, i swear

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

To spout a patently false conspiracy theory and then double down on it in the way that he did is disappointing. My post was partly tongue in cheek, but I would be lying if I said it didn't change my opinion about him a little. I don't think anyone is singling Royce out as the only rapper to have said something ignorant either. Pete Rock posts some ignorant shit on social media, and while I'll still enjoy some PR, its tainted my opinion of him too. If Black Thought drops a line about the earth being flat tomorrow it will knock him down a few pegs too.

Discuss



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

You guys are dweebs


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I thought the dweebs had vanished but YIKES

GUYS: You can't cherry pick and use double standards

That isn't how grownups with working brains function

Either y'all are 12 or are dummies


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

.

That's been the case

>
>That's been the case
>


I'll take "things that have never been said by a person who can do a pushup for 1000 alex".

I like Royce. He's probably been the best MC out there (IMO) for the past few years. I'll be waiting enthusiastically for his next project.

"The Allegory" is cool. Some highs, some lows but it's getting several spins from me.

His anti-vax position is incredibly dumb.

He's still my current favorite MC.

I don't think it's that difficult for me to hold all of these thoughts at the same time.

I'm listening

>I'm listening

There are probably endless lines in hop-hop that I may think are dumb. I don't disqualify an MC for dropping a stupid line. I don't necessarily disqualify them for holding a belief that I don't share.

But I also won't hold back on saying that I think it's dumb.

I'm not sure if you agree with the ant-vax position or if you're annoyed that other folks don't agree with it. Or do you think Royce shouldn't be criticized once he puts his political/social beliefs about there?

>I'm not sure if you agree with the ant-vax position or if
>you're annoyed that other folks don't agree with it. Or do you
>think Royce shouldn't be criticized once he puts his
>political/social beliefs about there?

You're wasting your time. You're not gonna get an earnest response.

>There are probably endless lines in hop-hop that I may think
>are dumb. I don't disqualify an MC for dropping a stupid line.
>I don't necessarily disqualify them for holding a belief that
>I don't share.
>
>But I also won't hold back on saying that I think it's dumb.


>I'm not sure if you agree with the ant-vax position or if
>you're annoyed that other folks don't agree with it. Or do you
>think Royce shouldn't be criticized once he puts his
>political/social beliefs about there?

Oh, I'm explosively angry at the anti-vaxx movement

No one hates Anti-vaxx more than I do

I also just happen to think clearly and fairly







----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I've heard people talk about trailers or dumpsters full of weapons being dropped off in their neighborhoods without "chain of custody" or documentation. We KNOW crack was pumped into neighborhoods. Black people have earned/died for the right to be distrustful of the government and what it puts in our bodies/communities.

The existence of the judeochristian god has not been proven, yet countless rappers talk about god and jesus in that framework. and religion has been 10,000 times more destructive than vaccinating or not vaccinating children. where's the anger for innaccuracy?

to go with the other shit, DMX in his first album says "if you have a daughter older than 15, i'ma rape her." I don't know that he's EVER caught heat for that line. EVER.

I was worried based on the early reviews on here, then I started listening for myself. I'm enjoying the album tremendously.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Are you saying it's OK for DMX to rhyme about raping someone's daughter?

If not, how can you make this statement ?

>RE: No, I pointed out problematic lyrics that people have let slide

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>>
>>**********
>>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>>
>>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"
>
>Are you saying it's OK for DMX to rhyme about raping someone's
>daughter?

They are saying that.

They only nitpick when it makes THEM feel smart:

"OMMMMG I cannot BELIEVE he's anti-Vaxx"

Meanwhile, they let all kinds of destructive shit slide


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Google it. It will free you of your frustration.

Oh yeah, you frustrated


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

You get too much of your validation from others. Exercise help. Trust.

but OE's trolling was not exactly what I had in mind, lol

The record is ok. I need to sit with it more. I've always wanted to like Royce more than I actually do. As a lyricist he's undeniably top-tier but something about his delivery just often falls flat. But the album is ambitious and I could easily see this being one that sneaks into my rotation more than I initially imagine.

It's absolutely too long, though -- at this point, an album has to be absolutely exceptional to justify a 70 minute run time and this does not make the cut.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

You just got to nod your head and keep it moving.



I think it's a bit overblown to get upset by anti-vax talk given all the other wild talk you hear on a typical rap record.

Like you can say you'd kill somebody and f*ck hoes, but anti-vax talk is the crossing a line to folks.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I think it's a bit overblown to get upset by anti-vax talk
>given all the other wild talk you hear on a typical rap
>record.
>
>Like you can say you'd kill somebody and f*ck hoes, but
>anti-vax talk is the crossing a line to folks.

Wanna know why people crying about vaxx?

Because it makes them FEEL SMART to shit on Royce

That's the reason

It's why I don't like rap dweebs

They pick fights based on THEIR FEELINGS, no real sense,
no fairness, nothing

Rap records are FULL of poisonous and dark things

But people wanna get upset at an Anti-vaxx comment!?!?





----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Crying because people don't like the album as much as you.

of the posts on a rap message board arguing about an album.

Yo Kettle is Black AF.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>Yo Kettle is Black AF.

So is my knowledge, god

and why you keep bringing up pushups? LMAO! you're very strong and manly. congrats.
but this thread is very entertaining cos of you so keep it going. *thumbs up*

I agree that double standards definitely are applied throughout hip-hop.

For instance, I listen to lyrics about killing people but I can’t do the rape lyrics...just me. That’s why I never fucked with Big L’s first album and to answer the post above, didn’t fuck with DMX’s first album or after that.

However, even with that it’s all context. An MC talking about the environment that they grew up in and having lyrics about killing someone who tests them or disrespects them, etc. is different than if an MC were to just talk about how they were going to run up in a church and kill women and children for no reason. There’s levels to the shit and some people will have different level of what they will tolerate.

But now you’re comparing that to lyrics that are political in nature and have pretty much been disproven. I agree, you can’t tell a parent who has a kid on the spectrum anything but that doesn’t mean we have to agree with him if we don’t have the same belief. People mostly are coming at him for spreading what they believe to be a very ignorant view point that is factual incorrect.

You can’t really equate that to just simply violent lyrics because they’re not the same thing. What would be similar is if an MC said something like “condoms don’t stop you from catching aids so fuck wearing them. Matter of fact it’s like an MC saying, “I don’t fuck with condoms because the white man is putting aids in the lubricant.”

You would say that shit is dumb as hell. That is more of an equivalent ignorant lyric than “I’m ‘a shoot a mafucka for coming short on my money”

99.9% of gun and violence talk in rap is not "reflective."

a) Rappers are liars and almost none actual live that life

b) Even if they weren't most violent talk in rap is insecure
flex talk. Prodigy is one of my favorite rappers ever. Prodigy
is also from a privileged family. Shook Ones is one of the
best songs ever made. It's a song about two short dweebs
feeling insecure and promoting violence for no reason.

NO -- that is NOT less bad than Anti-Vaxx shit.

YOU GUYS let it slide because you have terrible values
AND because you like to shit on rap in ways that makes
YOU feel smart

Just stop.

Inbox me, I'll teach you how to do a pushup. My guess i
that it'll solve this whole problem


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>
>99.9% of gun and violence talk in rap is not "reflective."
>

Never said it was reflective. It’s usually tough guy talk and bullshit. However, it’s not the same brand of ignorance. It’s action movie ignorance wrongly passed off as real life. The shit Royce is on is some faux intellectual shit passed off as conscious for you dumb mafuckas... there’s a difference.

>a) Rappers are liars and almost none actual live that life
>

Never disagreed with this.

>b) Even if they weren't most violent talk in rap is insecure
>flex talk. Prodigy is one of my favorite rappers ever.
>Prodigy
>is also from a privileged family. Shook Ones is one of the
>best songs ever made. It's a song about two short dweebs
>feeling insecure and promoting violence for no reason.
>
>NO -- that is NOT less bad than Anti-Vaxx shit.

No one said what was “less bad”...just more tolerable for most. You yourself follow in the same path as Prodigy...you’re a dweeb talking tough on a message board so what the fuck are you even trying to say. What everyone here has said is that Royce is coming off of uneducated and ignorant in a way most people will side eye. It’s easy for us to take Mobb Deep as just a vibe and a representation of a way of life even if you claim they didn’t live it.

>
>YOU GUYS let it slide because you have terrible values
>AND because you like to shit on rap in ways that makes
>YOU feel smart
>

And YOU like to listen to smart rap for dumb people. *shrugs*

>Just stop.
>
>Inbox me, I'll teach you how to do a pushup. My guess i
>that it'll solve this whole problem
>

See, only people who think Royce is deep would type some shit like that.

Good day sir...

>Never said it was reflective. It’s usually tough guy talk
>and bullshit. However, it’s not the same brand of ignorance.
>It’s action movie ignorance wrongly passed off as real life.
>The shit Royce is on is some faux intellectual shit passed off
>as conscious for you dumb mafuckas... there’s a difference.

Bwahahah you COPPING PLEAS

Rap music that promotes violence and death is WORSE
than Royce's stance...it CELEBRATES behavior that
KILLS communities!!!

AHahaha

Mobb Deep's whole schtick was IGNORANT and SENSITIVE
TOXIC VIOLENCE. ADMIT THAT SHIT!!!

There are artists who glorify it and there are artists who speak about it.

Simple as that.

I don’t expect you to understand the nuances of this shit though.

Still doesn’t excuse MCs of pushing ignorant agendas and then acting like Kelly-Ann Conway when pressed on the issue.

Oh.

I’ve only listened to the Griselda tracks so far. Royce doing all the beats and especially the marathon length of this has me holding off. Might drive (5 or so hours) to the LB show in Baltimore next Friday, maybe then I’d have the time and energy to listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXi629ypSwY

this makes up for the anti vaxx stuff I'm fine with it now

And he is just awful. At the beginning Kweli said that Rap was his "intellectual equal" but it didn't take long for Rap to prove him wrong.

Kwe's co-host Jasmine was visibly angry at dude like 15x in the first half hour lol.

and a guest has to be pretty trash for me to enthusiastically side with Kweli lol

Jokes aside, I've enjoyed his podcast. Certainly a good counterbalance to his online social media persona (haven't really been listening to his music for the past decade or so)

>RE: yeah I felt my blood pressure rising with that episode
>and a guest has to be pretty trash for me to enthusiastically
>side with Kweli lol
>
>Jokes aside, I've enjoyed his podcast. Certainly a good
>counterbalance to his online social media persona (haven't
>really been listening to his music for the past decade or so)

Yea for sure. It's wild cuz following him on Twitter all these years has kinda made me forget just how smart a dude he is. So I've enjoyed the clips I've seen from the podcast as well. He gives the guests room to speak but interjects with a lot of enlightening and instructive thoughts and opinions. And I'm like, oh right, this is why I always loved his music back in the day lol.

He's canceled too?

What about misogynist rappers?

...besides, as long as the rhymes SOUND dope and the beat knocks??? Whoooo cares????

>
>He's canceled too?
>
>What about misogynist rappers?

are rapper dudes FORBIDDEN from having any suspicions about what the U.S. government puts in people's bodies????

I'm a student of history, and just wanna know....

(c) Lesson



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

And planet asia is like the big homie to all the underground cats.
He pops up on all these guys’ projects so I’m glad he got a collab album with one of the producers.

I’m a fan.

I’ve been all in on the Planet Asia “revival” since like 2012/2013, but this one didn’t do much for me. Of his many releases he’s put out in close to a decade, I’d put this one on the lower end.

I’d say my biggest issue is the beats/production For whatever reason, I haven’t really been able to get into 38 Spesh as a rapper or producer. And I tend to check for all the Griselda/Griselda adjacent cats.

So the lyrics on this were cool enough, but as a whole it didn’t really move me. Bring on the Planet Asia/DJ Scratch album.

As far as prolific MCs who released something yesterday, I’m feeling the new Vic Spencer.

I love when Nas talks about things he knows first hand and has experienced but when dude wanders outside of his knowledge base....



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I love when Nas talks about things he knows first hand and
>has experienced but when dude wanders outside of his knowledge
>base....


Prodigy was a privileged kid who was mostly lying
about being tough

2Pac was a background dancer who rebranded as a superthug

What about when they branched outside of their knowledge base?

Did you criticize that?

you can't criticize any instance? LOL.

Do your thing but I'll be done with this: you are ruining a decent discussion of an artist that everyone here clearly is pulling for (even if they didn't love the album).


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I'm not with that

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

In light of the discussion above when this song dropped, I thought this was interesting. Love stuff like this where we really get the story on how songs come together.

http://youtu.be/gRLpw-Yey_Y

i still think its very dope. great album. probably slightly below the book of ryan.

got it rated a 4.7 out of 5. feels about right.

so dope stays in constant rotation in the ride!!

But it was ultimately a let down and frankly Royce albums have been super weak since in my opinion.

His Ft. on Father Figure was dope, but have not heard a track that's moved me in a minute. Let me know if I am missing something out there.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>But it was ultimately a let down and frankly Royce albums
>have been super weak since in my opinion.

Yet I kind of feel the same lol I've cooled off on Royce since this album but uh he hasn't actually released any albums since this. He had the Heaven EPs that I think are a mix of old and new tracks.

I'm hoping he lets someone else handle the bulk of production on his next album. No more vaccines/syringe lines either.

>I'm hoping he lets someone else handle the bulk of production on his next album. No more vaccines/syringe lines either.

I appreciate his effort and all but those beats on Allegory were mostly not good. And it was especially jarring coming off of Book of Ryan which was one of his best albums from both a production standpoint and overall standpoint.

And yea - miss me with the anti-vaxx BS.

https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m1YH9DZgn-fr41XVHi7nuljqMEYniUDcE&feature=share


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Hardly an "album," as it were.