Any black musicians out here want to make a BBQ friendly album or we just going to cede that space to Bruno Mars?

Songs for a Pixar Movie Soundtrack too corny so Justin Timberlake gets to collect all that animated movie soundtrack money?


Chris Brown can't do a love song unless he has the lyrics "Why your pu$$y so damn good, miss lady?"


Any Black Male Artist out there want that Pop Crossover Success?

Childish Gambino maybe?



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

No way the title indicates it was Maxxx

A lot of white people making songs about drugs & sadness....and black folk making songs about how they ARE NOT sad, but you are (which comes off as code for "I'm sad too).

I don't really think it's about race right now, everything is fucked up IRL and it shows in the music. Even the pop songs that aren't supposed to be sad, kinda feel sad.

Real question is why can't any major label R&B get a release date out here?

I would love a storm of people trying to bring some "let's dance away the pain".

Completely ignoring the MJ comparison tho, Bruno never really reminded me of MJ at all.

I mean Bruno whole crew mostly black...

so yes THEY are all tryna make that music.. Phil, The Stereotypes etc..

but outside of Bruno & Phil and sometimes James

cant no one write like them.. period..

he doesn't really have any competition in his lane.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Very few were trying...

its basically... Tuxedo and Bad Rabbits

Like...IF Chris Brown essentially put out this same Bruno album, would his fans accept it? And with his history and negative image, would it be well received outside of his own fanbase?

Or if someone like Usher made it, would folks be mad that he's not making "progressive" music and that he's relying on styles that came before his own time? Some folks claim Bruno gets a pass for what Black artists can't do, but I'm not sure if that's really it or not.

I can say, as Double 0 says, his writing and production squad is just perfection, so even when other artists make similar music, it's just never THIS good. Like, how the hell do you make a New Jack Swing song in 2018 that ends up at the top of the charts? If you told me this would happen before I heard the song, I would laugh in your face.

The dude who made this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn_6LC4loY8

and can dance like he does could have been huge.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

yeah and the last minute of that vidoo explains why he didn't

respect,
bc

"my old boy from the Point but I'm from Southwest..."

"Are you really ready to carry some weight?,
Are you ready to design your fate?" -Kelvin Mercer

He's pushing 40 making EDM-Pop music...Him doing any style of 60's-80's pop music would be more than welcome, and would be more expected than anything actually experimental or progressive.

>Or if someone like Usher made it, would folks be mad that he's
>not making "progressive" music and that he's relying on styles
>that came before his own time? Some folks claim Bruno gets a
>pass for what Black artists can't do, but I'm not sure if
>that's really it or not.

but Usher's main fanbase ain't the same as us. It's pretty difficult to say, honestly...his last true smash album and hits were from "Confessions," although he's had random hits since then. He became a mega star, and because he was always more progressive, it might seem as if he's going backwards to some folks...versus Bruno, who's always had a vintage style, if that makes sense.

Like, "Yeah" was low key revolutionary at the time, and became like the second biggest song of the decade. I feel like whatever he makes still has to have a strong modern polish, even if it is vintage, in order for it to really move units.

But of course, I wish he could just make something vintage and classic. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY would ever request "OMG," yet they still ask for "Bad girl" "U don't have to call" and "You make me wanna"

He's like 25% MJ, 25% Prince, 25% 60's soul man and 25% 90's R&B guy.

I'd say he's like 50% prince and 50% 90's R&B guy

If Timberlake or Bieber released the exact "Told You So" song and video, it would be the #1 song out and have a half a billion views on YouTube

Told You So is a 5th or 6th single on a JT album 10 years ago after 4 smashes..

Miguel imo has lost a his footing... He has been searching for this hybrid sonic palette of himself for a number of albums now but has sacrificed great songs in the process. Because of that with each successive album he is falling further out of the cultural zeitgeist.

Kaleidoscope Dream found a perfect medium between writing good songs and experimenting with this melange of rock, soul, hip hop sonics.. but he hasn't found that again.

He could.... then he would for sure be in the convo.. and pretty quickly I think.

Off the strength of Kaleidoscope Dream and Wildheart I absolutely agree that he should be way bigger than he is. Adorn was everywhere, but those albums were both pretty fantastic front to back for the most part and should have been bigger. And there are at least 4 pretty strong IMO on W&L in Pineapple Skies, Skywalker, Banana Clip and Told You So, but it's still just kind of sitting there quietly. Album debuted at #9 :-/

If we're staying with the Prince comparison, maybe he's just still in his Dirty Mind/Controversy stage right now, bubbling under the surface and getting a lot of critical praise, he hasn't had his '1999'/"Little Red Corvette" yet

>Any black musicians out here want to make a BBQ friendly
>album or we just going to cede that space to Bruno Mars?
>
>Songs for a Pixar Movie Soundtrack too corny so Justin
>Timberlake gets to collect all that animated movie soundtrack
>money?
>
>
>Chris Brown can't do a love song unless he has the lyrics "Why
>your pu$$y so damn good, miss lady?"
>
>
>Any Black Male Artist out there want that Pop Crossover
>Success?
>
>Childish Gambino maybe?

The urban audience doesn't support Black people making pop music.
So I'm sure the road is a lot tougher.

Bruno's visual is pretty black though...

He is up here fro'd out with a whole black band (and his brother)

His presentation is blacker than anything chris brown has done..

Even anderson paak's band is all white...

Only janelle and solange present such a poweful black band image on stage...

In the mainstream of course

>Bruno's visual is pretty black though...
>
>He is up here fro'd out with a whole black band (and his
>brother)
>
>His presentation is blacker than anything chris brown has
>done..
>
>Even anderson paak's band is all white...
>
>Only janelle and solange present such a poweful black band
>image on stage...
>
>In the mainstream of course

has always loved the jamming Black back-up band.

Ellen.. possibly the whitest show in america.. beamed into middle america everyday has rappers on almost every week..

She breaks any new dance craze online into mainstream America and as a black DJ..

If you peep below I outlined why imo (from within the industry) it doesn't really exist..

Black/Urban music. We're loving it as much, or more than, anyone else.

Which makes no sense to argue now in a Post MJJ, Whitney & Prince world.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>Which makes no sense to argue now in a Post MJJ, Whitney &
>Prince world.

There are quite a few others that are charting high off of traditionally Black music. Music & radio works more mechanically than ever, if it sells better without the Black faces then just remove them.

Do you notice how they removed most of the Black women from hip-hop music videos? Did you know that Adele's wiki notes one of her genres as "blue eyed soul"? Do you hear Black people using that term? If not, why do you think it exists? Why are so many of the popular rappers talking about pills nowadays? Why are they so angsty? Why dress like they do?

I'm not even going to touch the fact that the three Black pop artists you listed....

>
>There are quite a few others that are charting high off of
>traditionally Black music.

All American music is traditionally black music...

Music & radio works more

>mechanically than ever, if it sells better without the Black
>faces then just remove them.
Beyonce, Rihanna, Kendrick, Drake, J Cole would like a word.. they outsell everyone except Adele and Taylor

>
>Do you notice how they removed most of the Black women from
>hip-hop music videos? This is a lie

Did you know that Adele's wiki notes
>one of her genres as "blue eyed soul"? Yes

Do you hear Black
>people using that term? Yes

If not, why do you think it exists? Because some writer made it up just like some writer made up Hip Hop and some executive made up R&B

>Why are so many of the popular rappers talking about pills
>nowadays? Why are they so angsty? Why dress like they do?
>
Middle Class Values

that it couldn't happen then until it happened.

And then once it happened, it makes no sense to argue that it can't happen again.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>that it couldn't happen then until it happened.
>
>And then once it happened, it makes no sense to argue that it
>can't happen again.

So I take it you DON'T think it's more difficult for a Black artist to get in those pop spaces?

and for what it's worth, I think you have a point. Black artists have spoken on it as well.

Community, right now. That's one big problem. Someone has to make the music. Either that's going to be the singer himself or herself, or some other musicians.

Most of what is passed off as R&B now is being made with a completely 2017/2018 Hip-Hop sensibility (which equates to Trap). I haven't seen any evidence that the Trap sound will ever result in high quality R&B on a mass scale. It's been 10 years now and it hasn't happened yet.

The folks who would be the ones to write good R&B again are mostly playing in churches every Sunday and making their living that way. I tapped into that world by becoming FB friends with 40 - 50 guitarists and bassists who all play churches (and many of them are HBCU grads with music degrees, living in the deep South.)

Until young Black people decide that they want to hear good R&B all the time from lots and lots of artists again, things won't change.

why cant it be that traditional r&b had its run, and now it's onto something new and different?

Sometimes I glance at one of those old Top 20 Song lists from the back of a random Jet magazine from the past and my mind is blown at how many classic songs are listed from any given week. Nothing like that is happening now.

Daniel Caesar, H.E.R, Sabrina Claudio and their ilk are def pursuing R&B ass R&B..

with way better writing than say Tank

of your head.

The other bad thing is there's so little competition because the scene for R&B is so small. That is probably *the* big negative effect of all this. Hearing other groups and wanting to put something better out helps raise quality of everyone's output.

Agreed

same time.. who knows who will be inspired by Bruno or Childish Gambino's last joint.. thats cookin now

Also... my feeling is.. Black people used to be forced into ONLY R&B.. now u have traditional stuff, pop, hybrid stuff, rock soul (benjamin booker), Jazzy R&B stuff etc...

Malibu and Venice groove... NxWorries feels like the soundtrack to a Blaxploitation film to me... I really can't wait for the Free Nationals album and then his next project to drop... He might not be as pop as Bruno, but I feel like he could give him a run...

pop that is..

and he has the dre/aftermath power to back him up if the planets aligned.

I dont think you guys understand how hard being a Pop machine is..

Bruno is who he is because The Smeezingtons spent years writing the hits for others (Wavin Flag, Right Round, Billionaire, Nothing On You).. and studying hits in general... he can deconstruct most top 10s from the last 40 years..

Add that to the fact that he was already a seasoned performer since he's been doing this shit since 5..

You cant catch up.. You can be different..

But you cannot get in his lane..

>I dont think you guys understand how hard being a Pop machine
>is..
>
Not saying Paak can share the same lane as Bruno (who killed about 2 or 3 other genres other than pop urban, which bruno is running now) hence what you are saying below...

>Bruno is who he is because The Smeezingtons spent years
>writing the hits for others (Wavin Flag, Right Round,
>Billionaire, Nothing On You).. and studying hits in general...
>he can deconstruct most top 10s from the last 40 years..

A machine with aftermath money and influence cannot get behind Paak with his appeal?? Chris Brown and Usher on a down glide now. But they seem like they aren't remotely trying to go for that funky-pseudo-retro vibe that Bruno is nailing. Paak could murder this but this industry is built for only one machine to push a sound like that.

>Add that to the fact that he was already a seasoned performer
>since he's been doing this shit since 5..

live performances...years in the game is vital, but at some point..you either got it or you don't. Paak DEFINITELY got it.

>You cant catch up.. You can be different..
>
>But you cannot get in his lane..

agreed, that's because Bruno can switch it up on the dime and get his non-urban money like started with...and it would be OK.

>>I dont think you guys understand how hard being a Pop
>machine
>>is..
>>
>Not saying Paak can share the same lane as Bruno (who killed
>about 2 or 3 other genres other than pop urban, which bruno is
>running now) hence what you are saying below...
>
>>Bruno is who he is because The Smeezingtons spent years
>>writing the hits for others (Wavin Flag, Right Round,
>>Billionaire, Nothing On You).. and studying hits in
>general...
>>he can deconstruct most top 10s from the last 40 years..
>
>A machine with aftermath money and influence cannot get behind
> Paak with his appeal?? Chris Brown and Usher on a down glide
>now. But they seem like they aren't remotely trying to go for
>that funky-pseudo-retro vibe that Bruno is nailing. Paak
>could murder this but this industry is built for only one
>machine to push a sound like that.
>
>>Add that to the fact that he was already a seasoned
>performer
>>since he's been doing this shit since 5..
>
>live performances...years in the game is vital, but at some
>point..you either got it or you don't. Paak DEFINITELY got
>it.
>
>>You cant catch up.. You can be different..
>>
>>But you cannot get in his lane..
>
>agreed, that's because Bruno can switch it up on the dime and
>get his non-urban money like started with...and it would be
>OK.
>
>
>
Anderson and Bruno already have strong similarities in the performance department. Anderson is an insane well seasoned performer as well (like Janelle)..

Which is why bruno brought him on tour

But these hits mang... Bruno (and phil) is in a class by himself in that regard..

Look at this shit... and its a freestyle joke https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0pyJoNzKF4

This isn't about knocking Bruno Mars. Dude is hella talented and he has a great time behind him. Conceded.

But it's ridiculous to suggest that there can be only ONE artist who can can achieve the success that he has at this moment in time and that there is no black male who can.

Shit even when Michael Jackson was the Michael Jackson of his time, there were plenty of artists who were in the conversation and competing with him. Artist like Prince, Madonna, George Michael, Whitney Huston, Lionel Richie. None achieved the success that MJJ did, but neither has Bruno Mars.

Also, this is such a ridiculous position because there are clearly other artist who are competing for the top of the Pop Kingdom in 2018. Rihanna, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry. My question is why are there no Black Males trying to reach that level.

My point is that it seems like no black male artist is even trying to compete. My question why? Is King of Pop in 2018 too corny for any brother to make a run at?






>I dont think you guys understand how hard being a Pop machine
>is..
>
>Bruno is who he is because The Smeezingtons spent years
>writing the hits for others (Wavin Flag, Right Round,
>Billionaire, Nothing On You).. and studying hits in general...
>he can deconstruct most top 10s from the last 40 years..
>
>Add that to the fact that he was already a seasoned performer
>since he's been doing this shit since 5..
>
>You cant catch up.. You can be different..
>
>But you cannot get in his lane..


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>But it's ridiculous to suggest that there can be only ONE
>artist who can can achieve the success that he has at this
>moment in time and that there is no black male who can.
>

Pop is blockbuster silo'd... Rihanna doesn't play in Beyonce's lane doesn't play in Adele's lane... Bruno purposely stopped playing in Ed Sheeran space and Ed cannot play in Bruno space


>Shit even when Michael Jackson was the Michael Jackson of his
>time, there were plenty of artists who were in the
>conversation and competing with him. Artist like Prince,
>Madonna, George Michael, Whitney Huston, Lionel Richie. None
>achieved the success that MJJ did, but neither has Bruno Mars.
>
There was money in the labels then.. R&B competing at that level COSTS a lot of money... to take 1 song to top 10 could cost 500k-1m.. They only risk that on sure bet lanes... Arianna, Demi, Rihanna are song vehicles.. Tinashe cannot get close to them because her vehicle isnt strong or fast enough..

Bruno IS the gas AND the vehicle so he doesnt have to play in that (song placement) space. He circumvented a near impossible hill and is now at the top.. So anyone who wants to write a certain kind of song (outside of his crew) and have it heard like a James Fauntleroy is sending it to Bruno or JT.. NOT to some up and coming dude who can maybe dance..

>
>Also, this is such a ridiculous position because there are
>clearly other artist who are competing for the top of the Pop
>Kingdom in 2018. Rihanna, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry.
>My question is why are there no Black Males trying to reach
>that level.
>

I answered this above.. Drake is the strongest vehicle for men out (besides Beibs). That means if you are a known/hit making songwriter or producer you are saving you best shit for the strongest vehicles and you are making those records FOR those vehicles.

If someone (not just a black dude) cannot write and produce the songs on their OWN... they arent gonna get in the game to even compete with Bruno... You are asking someone to race a ferrari riding a bike..

Everything is Rap nowadays because from day one rap had a DIY ethos. So most rappers and rap adjacent folks are trained to write their own shit.. get their boy to make a beat and keep grinding until it pops.

The new R&B we hear learned this ethos and is implementing it. 6lack, Byrson etc are making records like rappers do.

R&B and esp the groove r&b we are talking about was built on 1 of 2 ways... You were in a band with your boys and ya'll got really good any made awesome records until they popped.

OR

You were plucked from "the mall" and placed in a group or good enough to be solo. Taught how to dance, dress, sing (better) in a system. You were given pre written songs to sing from a system and you just had to get up there and kill it.

Both of these scenarios rarely happen because in the first one we have lost bands in general ($, school programs, technology, culture etc) and in the second the labels/production companies foot the bill for years until it worked. They arent footing the bill.

What you are asking for is too dependent on money and outside partners to work.

So it COULD happen but extremely rare

Im sure you see it.. esp with your producer and songwriting homies..

I hear you and appreciate that that is how the Machine works today.

But the history of the music industry is all about artist who come along and break all the rules and cause paradigm shifts.

Prior to Prince, no one would have thought a mad feminine dude from Minnaepolis who performed in his underwear, could be a huge pop act.

Before NWA, no one would have thought a group with "Nigga" in their name that made explicit profanity laden records could sell millions of records.

Before Drake, no one would thought the hottest rapper could be a bi-racial jewish kid actor from Toronto who also sings on his tracks.

Before MJJ, no one thought the biggest selling act of all time could be a black artist.

Shit before Bruno Mars, no one would have thought the biggest R&B-ish Pop Act could be an Asian kid.

Yeah there are formulas that explain the success of a lot of artists, Justin Beiber seems like he was dreamed up in a Pop Formula Lab, but the formula gets smashed with enough regularity that we should expect the unexpected to crop up every few years.

And what I am asking for, A black male pop star, doesn't require a lot of vision or thinking beyond the formula, because it's been done before.

And I would also point out like you mentioned that Bruno Mars wasn't always Bruno Mars the pop star. He didn't star off right out the gate where he is. I think a lot of people (including his now creative team) recognized that he had the talent and the ambition to be a huge pop star and that set him on his way in the pipeline.

But my question is where is the Black Male Artist with the Talent and the Ambition to want to be a pop star that should be in the pipeline and attracting the producers and the machine to give them the look to invest in them. Not expecting someone to come out and debut as a fully formed pop star, but where are the artist with the potential?

I think people named some possible candidates:

Anderson Paak
Childish Gambino
I'd throw Blood Orange in the mix but with him and Anderson Paak I wonder if that's something they both want even though they have the talent (I wonder if Childish Gambino has the talent).






>
>>But it's ridiculous to suggest that there can be only ONE
>>artist who can can achieve the success that he has at this
>>moment in time and that there is no black male who can.
>>
>
>Pop is blockbuster silo'd... Rihanna doesn't play in Beyonce's
>lane doesn't play in Adele's lane... Bruno purposely stopped
>playing in Ed Sheeran space and Ed cannot play in Bruno space
>
>
>>Shit even when Michael Jackson was the Michael Jackson of
>his
>>time, there were plenty of artists who were in the
>>conversation and competing with him. Artist like Prince,
>>Madonna, George Michael, Whitney Huston, Lionel Richie.
>None
>>achieved the success that MJJ did, but neither has Bruno
>Mars.
>>
>There was money in the labels then.. R&B competing at that
>level COSTS a lot of money... to take 1 song to top 10 could
>cost 500k-1m.. They only risk that on sure bet lanes...
>Arianna, Demi, Rihanna are song vehicles.. Tinashe cannot get
>close to them because her vehicle isnt strong or fast
>enough..
>
>Bruno IS the gas AND the vehicle so he doesnt have to play in
>that (song placement) space. He circumvented a near
>impossible hill and is now at the top.. So anyone who wants to
>write a certain kind of song (outside of his crew) and have it
>heard like a James Fauntleroy is sending it to Bruno or JT..
>NOT to some up and coming dude who can maybe dance..
>
>>
>>Also, this is such a ridiculous position because there are
>>clearly other artist who are competing for the top of the
>Pop
>>Kingdom in 2018. Rihanna, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry.
>
>>My question is why are there no Black Males trying to reach
>>that level.
>>
>
>I answered this above.. Drake is the strongest vehicle for men
>out (besides Beibs). That means if you are a known/hit making
>songwriter or producer you are saving you best shit for the
>strongest vehicles and you are making those records FOR those
>vehicles.
>
>If someone (not just a black dude) cannot write and produce
>the songs on their OWN... they arent gonna get in the game to
>even compete with Bruno... You are asking someone to race a
>ferrari riding a bike..
>
>Everything is Rap nowadays because from day one rap had a DIY
>ethos. So most rappers and rap adjacent folks are trained to
>write their own shit.. get their boy to make a beat and keep
>grinding until it pops.
>
>The new R&B we hear learned this ethos and is implementing it.
> 6lack, Byrson etc are making records like rappers do.
>
>R&B and esp the groove r&b we are talking about was built on 1
>of 2 ways... You were in a band with your boys and ya'll got
>really good any made awesome records until they popped.
>
>OR
>
>You were plucked from "the mall" and placed in a group or good
>enough to be solo. Taught how to dance, dress, sing (better)
>in a system. You were given pre written songs to sing from a
>system and you just had to get up there and kill it.
>
>Both of these scenarios rarely happen because in the first one
>we have lost bands in general ($, school programs, technology,
>culture etc) and in the second the labels/production companies
>foot the bill for years until it worked. They arent footing
>the bill.
>
>What you are asking for is too dependent on money and outside
>partners to work.
>
>So it COULD happen but extremely rare
>
>
>
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>
>But my question is where is the Black Male Artist with the
>Talent and the Ambition to want to be a pop star that should
>be in the pipeline and attracting the producers and the
>machine to give them the look to invest in them. Not
>expecting someone to come out and debut as a fully formed pop
>star, but where are the artist with the potential?
>

Like I said waaaay above... we havent waited long enough to see the what bruno/childish albums will inspire... there could be an 18 year old digging into years of black music and synthesizing it as we speak...

I was making a point that as it stands it will be extremely rare. Might be more likely to get a father mc heavy d type rapper than straight pop r&b singer

>I think people named some possible candidates:
>
>Anderson Paak


What I am still trying to say is that paak's success will come from smashing the lane he is creating. He is already on tour with bruno... already on Ellen.. he doesnt NEED to attempt a pivot into Bruno's lane.
>
>
>>
>>>But it's ridiculous to suggest that there can be only ONE
>>>artist who can can achieve the success that he has at this
>>>moment in time and that there is no black male who can.

Nah.. Read the statement below.. any number of dudes can acheive Buno success. They just WONT do it attempting to play in Bruno's lane.

There are decades of black music to mine and reinterpret someone will find something new to flip ALWAYS. If you want to have stadium filling success it cannot come from being second fiddle in a lane.

Since Rihanna ascended to pop stardom... you have only had one black woman do the same... Nicki Minaj... That's ONE in 12 years.. so now there are 3 black women who can sell out an arena... THREE! Thats how hard shit is..

Now on the flip side there are multiple men who Have achieved that in the same time. They are all rappers (and chris) ... so I agree with you it 100% can happen for a guy...
Just not in the same lane... I would make this same argument for Drake, Beyonce, Rihanna, Kanye as well... not just Bruno

Chance will most likely be doing stadiums his next run... and it'll be because he played HIS lane not Drakes or Kendricks

>>Pop is blockbuster silo'd... Rihanna doesn't play in
>Beyonce's
>>lane doesn't play in Adele's lane... Bruno purposely stopped
>>playing in Ed Sheeran space and Ed cannot play in Bruno
>space

You are saying that no one else can be in Bruno's lane.

The "lane" I am talking about is just mega pop stardom (which I thought you were talking about). I wouldn't expect them to do it by ape'ing Bruno Mars.

I think every Mega Pop Star carves their own lane, but I believe there are multiple lanes to Mega Pop Stardom.

Prince didn't do it trying to be like Mike.

The Next Black Male Pop Star will do it not trying to be like Bruno.

My question remains where are the cats on the come up that want it and have the talent for it.





>>
>>But my question is where is the Black Male Artist with the
>>Talent and the Ambition to want to be a pop star that should
>>be in the pipeline and attracting the producers and the
>>machine to give them the look to invest in them. Not
>>expecting someone to come out and debut as a fully formed
>pop
>>star, but where are the artist with the potential?
>>
>
>Like I said waaaay above... we havent waited long enough to
>see the what bruno/childish albums will inspire... there
>could be an 18 year old digging into years of black music and
>synthesizing it as we speak...
>
>I was making a point that as it stands it will be extremely
>rare. Might be more likely to get a father mc heavy d type
>rapper than straight pop r&b singer
>
>>I think people named some possible candidates:
>>
>>Anderson Paak
>
>
>What I am still trying to say is that paak's success will come
>from smashing the lane he is creating. He is already on tour
>with bruno... already on Ellen.. he doesnt NEED to attempt a
>pivot into Bruno's lane.
>>
>>
>>>
>>>>But it's ridiculous to suggest that there can be only ONE
>>>>artist who can can achieve the success that he has at this
>>>>moment in time and that there is no black male who can.
>
>Nah.. Read the statement below.. any number of dudes can
>acheive Buno success. They just WONT do it attempting to play
>in Bruno's lane.
>
>There are decades of black music to mine and reinterpret
>someone will find something new to flip ALWAYS. If you want
>to have stadium filling success it cannot come from being
>second fiddle in a lane.
>
>Since Rihanna ascended to pop stardom... you have only had one
>black woman do the same... Nicki Minaj... That's ONE in 12
>years.. so now there are 3 black women who can sell out an
>arena... THREE! Thats how hard shit is..
>
>Now on the flip side there are multiple men who Have achieved
>that in the same time. They are all rappers (and chris) ... so
>I agree with you it 100% can happen for a guy...
>Just not in the same lane... I would make this same argument
>for Drake, Beyonce, Rihanna, Kanye as well... not just Bruno
>
>Chance will most likely be doing stadiums his next run... and
>it'll be because he played HIS lane not Drakes or Kendricks
>
>>>Pop is blockbuster silo'd... Rihanna doesn't play in
>>Beyonce's
>>>lane doesn't play in Adele's lane... Bruno purposely
>stopped
>>>playing in Ed Sheeran space and Ed cannot play in Bruno
>>space
>


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>You are saying that no one else can be in Bruno's lane.
>
>The "lane" I am talking about is just mega pop stardom (which
>I thought you were talking about). I wouldn't expect them to
>do it by ape'ing Bruno Mars.
>
>I think every Mega Pop Star carves their own lane, but I
>believe there are multiple lanes to Mega Pop Stardom.
>
>Prince didn't do it trying to be like Mike.
>
>The Next Black Male Pop Star will do it not trying to be like
>Bruno.
>
>My question remains where are the cats on the come up that
>want it and have the talent for it.
>

>
Here was your OP premise though "Any black musicians out here want to make a BBQ friendly album or we just going to cede that space to Bruno Mars?"

We have Black Male pop stars now though.. How are Kendrick, Drake, Chance not pop stars?

And to be clear, by BBQ Friendly I mean you can play the whole album for the grandfolks and the kids and there won't be any issues with language or content?



>>You are saying that no one else can be in Bruno's lane.
>>
>>The "lane" I am talking about is just mega pop stardom
>(which
>>I thought you were talking about). I wouldn't expect them
>to
>>do it by ape'ing Bruno Mars.
>>
>>I think every Mega Pop Star carves their own lane, but I
>>believe there are multiple lanes to Mega Pop Stardom.
>>
>>Prince didn't do it trying to be like Mike.
>>
>>The Next Black Male Pop Star will do it not trying to be
>like
>>Bruno.
>>
>>My question remains where are the cats on the come up that
>>want it and have the talent for it.
>>
>
>>
> Here was your OP premise though "Any black musicians out here
>want to make a BBQ friendly album or we just going to cede
>that space to Bruno Mars?"
>
>We have Black Male pop stars now though.. How are Kendrick,
>Drake, Chance not pop stars?


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Chance does.... Childish Gambino does..

Drake could... if he decided to pick a side and just do a world music album with no raps

>Chance does


Maybe at your cunk ass family bbq's but you couldn't play Chance's albums at my family BBQ (or other families who have a problem with cursing and the n word dropped in songs at family gatherings).


.... Childish Gambino does..


Goldpost moving because he wasn't in the original 3 artist you listed.


>
>Drake could... if he decided to pick a side and just do a
>world music album with no raps

THAT'S MY WHOLE POINT!!!!! Why it seems like black male artist don't want that universal pop appeal that a Bruno Mars type wants? I agree Drake could do it, but does he want to "pick a side" and give up his "street cred" by not cursing so much and switching up the more explicit type?





**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Yea ionno my brother can play chance for his daughter..

Curses dont mean shit.. content is key imo

The biggest song in the world right now (according to spotify) is Post Malone and 21 Savage - Rockstar...

That is the sound of pop... I am sure Bruno and cardi will usurp that.. but most rappers dont NEED to go THAT pop since rap is already commonplace pop music.

>Yea ionno my brother can play chance for his daughter..
>
>Curses dont mean shit.. content is key imo

I'm guessing you don't have kids.

>
>The biggest song in the world right now (according to spotify)
>is Post Malone and 21 Savage - Rockstar...

You hung up on the sound but the sound isn't the issue. Yeah hip-hop is the sound of Pop and Katy Perry got hip-hop infused hits so yeah Rock Star's sound is cool and my kids bop to it when the clean version comes on the radio but you don't reach MJJ or even Justin Beiber or Bruno Mars status with opening lyrics on your radio song like "Ayy, I've been fuckin' hoes and poppin' pillies...."


Sidenote: Its funny you mention 21 Savage because my wife's company was trying to decide between brining in 21 Savage and T-Pain and everyone was like "21 Savage who?". This is a tech company with tons of the cool young people and they went with T-Pain.

Anyway, having a song that charts on the Pop charts isn't the same as reaching Pop Mega Stardom where the grandmas and the kids know you and your song by name and you doing Ellen appearances.





>
>That is the sound of pop... I am sure Bruno and cardi will
>usurp that.. but most rappers dont NEED to go THAT pop since
>rap is already commonplace pop music.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

100%

We are pretty segmented as it relates to music... peep the article below.. very few hits are crossing over to pop mainstream stations.. so they are number 1 on hot 100 because of streaming but z100 doesnt play them..

It will be interesting to see what happens this year when the new billboard rules take effect..

Even bruno... as big as you may make him he is only now in the zeitgeist year and a half after the album is out.

i just thought that was funny. idk anybody i'd consider cool that doesnt know who he is. regardless of race.

Pretty sure an easy three billion have never heard of 21 Savage.

Probably six billion plus, but I’m being generous.

Peace,

Spirit (Alan)
http://wutangbook.com

>
>>But it's ridiculous to suggest that there can be only ONE
>>artist who can can achieve the success that he has at this
>>moment in time and that there is no black male who can.
>>
>
>Pop is blockbuster silo'd... Rihanna doesn't play in Beyonce's
>lane doesn't play in Adele's lane... Bruno purposely stopped
>playing in Ed Sheeran space and Ed cannot play in Bruno space
>
>
>>Shit even when Michael Jackson was the Michael Jackson of
>his
>>time, there were plenty of artists who were in the
>>conversation and competing with him. Artist like Prince,
>>Madonna, George Michael, Whitney Huston, Lionel Richie.
>None
>>achieved the success that MJJ did, but neither has Bruno
>Mars.
>>
>There was money in the labels then.. R&B competing at that
>level COSTS a lot of money... to take 1 song to top 10 could
>cost 500k-1m.. They only risk that on sure bet lanes...
>Arianna, Demi, Rihanna are song vehicles.. Tinashe cannot get
>close to them because her vehicle isnt strong or fast
>enough..
>
>Bruno IS the gas AND the vehicle so he doesnt have to play in
>that (song placement) space. He circumvented a near
>impossible hill and is now at the top.. So anyone who wants to
>write a certain kind of song (outside of his crew) and have it
>heard like a James Fauntleroy is sending it to Bruno or JT..
>NOT to some up and coming dude who can maybe dance..
>
>>
>>Also, this is such a ridiculous position because there are
>>clearly other artist who are competing for the top of the
>Pop
>>Kingdom in 2018. Rihanna, Beyonce, Taylor Swift, Katy Perry.
>
>>My question is why are there no Black Males trying to reach
>>that level.
>>
>
>I answered this above.. Drake is the strongest vehicle for men
>out (besides Beibs). That means if you are a known/hit making
>songwriter or producer you are saving you best shit for the
>strongest vehicles and you are making those records FOR those
>vehicles.
>
>If someone (not just a black dude) cannot write and produce
>the songs on their OWN... they arent gonna get in the game to
>even compete with Bruno... You are asking someone to race a
>ferrari riding a bike..
>
>Everything is Rap nowadays because from day one rap had a DIY
>ethos. So most rappers and rap adjacent folks are trained to
>write their own shit.. get their boy to make a beat and keep
>grinding until it pops.
>
>The new R&B we hear learned this ethos and is implementing it.
> 6lack, Byrson etc are making records like rappers do.
>
>R&B and esp the groove r&b we are talking about was built on 1
>of 2 ways... You were in a band with your boys and ya'll got
>really good any made awesome records until they popped.
>
>OR
>
>You were plucked from "the mall" and placed in a group or good
>enough to be solo. Taught how to dance, dress, sing (better)
>in a system. You were given pre written songs to sing from a
>system and you just had to get up there and kill it.
>
>Both of these scenarios rarely happen because in the first one
>we have lost bands in general ($, school programs, technology,
>culture etc) and in the second the labels/production companies
>foot the bill for years until it worked. They arent footing
>the bill.
>
>What you are asking for is too dependent on money and outside
>partners to work.
>
>So it COULD happen but extremely rare

I just wonder if he wants to go that route or would that be too corny for him or feel like selling out. IDK.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>I just wonder if he wants to go that route or would that be
>too corny for him or feel like selling out. IDK.
>
>
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

It seems to me that a lot of acts now want to make as much money as possible without 'going into the hole too deep' by getting in bed with some huge machine and forcing themselves to have to play the game as the machine requests to not end up broke in a ditch somewhere. Folks seem more comfortable to try to sneak up on folks, get a few decent placements (commercials, tv shows, opening for a big act), and call it a day with whatever popularity they catch. Then, it is show money, collab projects, guest spots, and doing just enough to keep it hot for the next time they hit the road..if they ever even take a break from the road.

Besides that, you guys have covered a lot of the bases. The big point I think revolves around the money part. We cannot forget that Prince and MJ costed a lot of money to get to where they were. It is foolish to assume that the general public decided independently to love Prince, MJ, or anyone who became huge during that era. The whole 'machine' argument is the Connect Four of this argument. The machine had the money. They invested in those two and got paid back in the form of some huge stars. They had jams + mystique/star power + machine support.

I LOVE Anderson .Paak, but he's in the 'regular dude' sector. He's likely a more reliable Bilal. He's not above rapping a little so that folks don't write him off as 'just a singer'. Kanye created a lane for regular guys, right? But he still needed the mystique of being crazy and a bunch of money behind his projects to hit his stride.

>Malibu and Venice groove... NxWorries feels like the
>soundtrack to a Blaxploitation film to me... I really can't
>wait for the Free Nationals album and then his next project to
>drop... He might not be as pop as Bruno, but I feel like he
>could give him a run...

for me, he is that dude right now. he seems to be one of the few artists out there that tries to remain true to his own vision, while having no qualms about giving props to those that came before him. original and fresh, yet familiar. his live show is pretty tight.

>Malibu and Venice groove... NxWorries feels like the
>soundtrack to a Blaxploitation film to me... I really can't
>wait for the Free Nationals album and then his next project to
>drop... He might not be as pop as Bruno, but I feel like he
>could give him a run...

for me, he is that dude right now. he seems to be one of the few artists out there that tries to remain true to his own vision, while having no qualms about giving props to those that came before him. original and fresh, yet familiar. his live show is pretty tight. he's definitely got the potential to go much further.

Yeah Bruno already had the voice but ever since he collaborated with Mark Ronson for "Uptown Funk" it's like they found the perfect collaboration since Mike & Quincy or Janet, Jimmy, & Terry.

Mark Ronson has been doing the retro soul sound before Bruno came along but he was doing it under the radar, which maybe why most got that culture vulture vibe from Bruno when it's not necessarily the case I will say with the southern soul sound making a killing in certain markets I can see why an artist like Bruno can do the clean "your parents having a party in the basement with a blue light bulb" vibe to his music and put the Michael & James Brown dance moves for videos to make himself subliminal acceptable.

Nah...

Uptown funk exists because Bruno already explored the sound on unorthodox jukebox

Treasure was already a hit.

Edit: Equally important in Uptown Funk is Jeff Bhasker (808s and heartbreak, FUN, beyonce I Care) AND Bruno's old live gigging buddy who perfected flipping the 80s sounds he started on 808s and heartbreak by the time Mark's album came around..



>Yeah Bruno already had the voice but ever since he
>collaborated with Mark Ronson for "Uptown Funk" it's like they
>found the perfect collaboration since Mike & Quincy or Janet,
>Jimmy, & Terry.
>
>Mark Ronson has been doing the retro soul sound before Bruno
>came along but he was doing it under the radar, which maybe
>why most got that culture vulture vibe from Bruno when it's
>not necessarily the case I will say with the southern soul
>sound making a killing in certain markets I can see why an
>artist like Bruno can do the clean "your parents having a
>party in the basement with a blue light bulb" vibe to his
>music and put the Michael & James Brown dance moves for videos
>to make himself subliminal acceptable.
>
>
>

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/8054003/hip-hop-rb-pop-radio-songs-crossover?curator=MusicREDEF

Why are the 2010s more difficult for female R&B singers than the '90s?
Halfway through 2017, Nielsen Music announced that R&B and hip-hop now account for 25 percent of all music consumption, outpacing rock for the first time in the company's 25 years of compiling the report. The viral R&B or rap hit jetting up the Hot 100 has become so commonplace that Vulture called 2017 "the year hip-hop won the music business."

But that depends on which part of the music business you're looking at. Success on the Billboard Hot 100, which includes sales, streams and radio play, disguises a crucial realm where singles from both rappers and R&B singers still face significant hurdles: the pop airwaves. Cardi B's "Bodak Yellow" reached No. 1 on the Hot 100, but over on the Pop Songs airplay chart, it only made it to No. 23. That's slightly better than Kendrick Lamar's "Humble.", another Hot 100 No. 1 that stopped at No. 26 on Pop Songs. Migos' "Bad and Boujee," featuring Lil Uzi Vert, also topped the Hot 100 but was unable to crack the top 30 on Pop Songs. Pop radio reaches the largest audience of any radio format every week, according to Nielsen Music, yet some of the most popular singles in the country are not played there heavily.

In the current pop radio climate, though, "Bodak Yellow" and "Humble." are actually crossover success stories. Lil Uzi Vert's "XO Tour Llif3" and Future's "Mask Off" were inescapable in 2017, unless you spent months listening to pop radio, where they were imperceptible -- both failed to register on the Pop Songs chart. As many have noted, pop radio programmers may have been the only camp unmoved by Beyoncé's Lemonade album in 2016: "Formation" did not crack Pop Songs, and "Sorry" did not make it into the top 30.

It turns out these are not isolated incidents. Comparing the R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart (the chart ranks the 50 most popular songs on R&B/hip-hop radio stations each week) and the Pop Songs chart (the chart reflecting the 40 most-played tracks on top 40 airwaves each week) between 1993 and 2016 shows that fewer songs are crossing from R&B/hip-hop radio to pop radio. And one group has been hit particularly hard by this decrease: female artists. In 1993, 16 songs featuring prominent female vocals made the leap from R&B/hip-hop airplay to pop airplay. In 2016, that number fell to just two.

Billboard created the R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay and Pop Songs airplay charts in 1992, not long after Nielsen Music began to electronically monitor sales and radio data with new levels of accuracy and granularity. The research in this story relied on data from the 24 years for which 52 weeks of chart information is available. The charts were cross-referenced, and any song that appeared in both was marked as a possible crossover track. However, if the song appeared on the Pop Songs chart the same week -- or before -- it appeared on R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart, it was discarded. The goal is to find songs that gain traction in the world of R&B/hip-hop radio before becoming big enough to force pop radio to take notice; songs that make the journey in reverse or travel up both charts simultaneously are a separate phenomenon.

Examples of the latter include singles from Adele, Sam Smith, Bruno Mars and Rihanna, all of whom get major support at pop radio and often reverse-cross to R&B/hip-hop radio. The number of reverse-crossover songs stays relatively constant from 1993 to 2012, when it ticks upward; it was higher in the following five years than it was for the majority of the time period examined, but increase in reverse-crossovers does not compensate for the overall decline in crossovers, of which there were 539 between 1993 and 2016.

All songs that appeared on the R&B/Hip-Hip Airplay chart were also classified according to the sex of the lead vocalist, with at least 50 percent female vocals required to qualify as a female-lead song. So, for instance, a woman singing the hook on a male artist's song doesn't count, but duets where both artists are on equal footing -- take Mariah Carey and Boyz II Men -- or singing groups that are at least half female do.

The average number of songs making the leap from R&B/hip-hop airplay to pop airplay each year, per their respective charts, has declined between 1993 and 2016. In 1993, 29 R&B/hip-hop tracks crossed over. The number rose as high as 36 in 2002 before dropping in increments down to just 12 in 2009. The average number of songs that crossed over during the first 14 years is 27 per year; during the last decade, that average fell to 16.

When you break these numbers down according to the gender of the singer, it turns out that the decline in overall crossover songs is entirely driven by a plunge in the number of female artists crossing over. In fact, the number of male crossover songs has stayed almost constant: The trend line has a negative slope that's barely different from zero, although it is statistically significant.


In contrast, the number of female artists has plummeted: A pool of 16 crossover female songs in 1993 shrank to just two in 2016. The slope of the trend line for female crossover songs is statistically indistinguishable from the slope of a trend line for all crossover songs, meaning that the overall decline in crossover songs is driven by the decline in crossover female songs. Women once made up more than half of all the R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay crossover songs; from 2012-2016, they accounted for just 13 percent.

One possible reason that fewer female-fronted acts are crossing over is that there are fewer songs by female-fronted acts on the R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart in the first place. Sure enough, the pool of tracks by female artists on R&B/hip-hop radio is now half of what it once was: There were 62 songs by women on the R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart during 1993, but just 33 during 2016. During this period, the number of songs by male acts on the R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay chart has drifted downward at a much more gradual rate (115 in 1993, 109 in 2016). The pool of possible female crossover songs is actually declining faster than the number of female crossover songs.

There is no difference between the average amount of time male and female crossover songs spend on the Pop Songs chart, but interestingly, the average peak position of crossover songs by women on Pop Songs is superior relative to their male counterparts. A female act who does manage to crossover reaches an average position of No. 16, while the average male crossover act tops out around No. 20. Although the difference between the two averages is not large, it is statistically significant.

These results do not surprise radio business veterans. "There are fewer records going over," says Dee Sonaram, vice president of rhythmic radio promotion at 300 Records. "Nowadays it takes a lot more than a great record; you almost have to have a moment of pop culture for it to work on that side."


"The pop world is totally different," Sonaram continues. "You gotta understand, they don't necessarily want Migos on the Z100 Jingle Ball . It's cool to have 'em on there now and then, but it doesn't fit between Katy Perry and P!nk. Even with 'Trap Queen' , we had a problem : 'Hey mom, what are we cookin' up in the kitchen?' There's still a certain amount of programmers out there that are probably scared to put that record on, even though you clean it up."

This suggests a biased restraint on rappers and R&B singers, who could reach the biggest pool of listeners available on radio if they were put into heavy rotation by pop programmers. But Sonaram believes that's not the right way to think about it. "I don't know that going up the pop chart further does anything for ," he says. "It might even overexpose her. You gotta be careful of the Flo Rida effect. Flo Rida has an amazing career; he's always going to come back with a huge record on pop radio. But he'll never get on urban radio. He can't go back." (In the 1990s, however, when pop radio was more receptive to crossover acts, artists like Usher and JAY-Z routinely earned pop airplay without losing the allegiance of urban radio programmers.)

It may seem counterintuitive to radio outsiders, but Ken Johnson, vp of urban programming for Cumulus Media, believes that the downturn in crossover actually helps mainstream R&B/hip-hop stations. "On the urban side of the ball, I don't look for records to cross over, per se," he explains. "If they don't cross over, it benefits urban radio more. Listeners who are consumers of that music, if they're not getting that on top 40 radio, there's a few places they can still get it, and one of those is urban radio."

As to the reason behind fewer female acts at R&B/hip-hop radio and fewer crossover female acts, women are battling both a sexist music industry and the dominance of hip-hop, which rules urban radio but has rarely made room for multiple female artists. "Women have always had a more challenging time in this industry," Jill Strada, programming director for Miami's top 40 (WFLC) and hip-hop (WEDR), says. "And on the rap tip, we're still talking mostly about the same chicks." R&B is more hospitable to female artists than hip-hop, but both male and female R&B singers have been crowded out by rappers. "Urban hasn't been playing or embracing the R&B sound the way it once did," Strada acknowledges. It remains to be seen if the success of an act like Cardi B will encourage labels to invest in more female MCs.

Perhaps choosing to focus narrowly on radio is an outdated approach in an increasingly streaming-driven world -- a more equitable streaming landscape might counter the downward trend in female R&B/hip-hop artists on the airwaves. However, Spotify's premier pop playlist, Today's Top Hits, takes some of its cues from radio, deploying few songs that qualify as female crossover hits.

So despite all the success of R&B and hip-hop in 2017, pop radio has largely ignored this rising tide. And female artists are not sharing in its benefits.

never been a huge MJ fan but you can't pretend that someone can just wear that crown cause they want it.. that ish is like the sword in the stone.. you gotta be the ONE in order to be able to draw it out and claim the throne...

ain't nobody on that level right now imo....

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

https://youtu.be/hFaCA8iXQaI

It has hints of greatness, but feels derivative. A go-go cover could smooth over a bit of the awkwardness.

Can it be derivative when it was actually produced by Teddy Riley though?

>Can it be derivative when it was actually produced by Teddy
>Riley though?

but it can still be bad. i didn't like the song at all. or maybe its the video that makes me not like the song.

Maybe a diff singer? Slightly different production? Like, it's not as strong as Finesse, but could easily follow it up if it was new and had the right singer on it.

>never been a huge MJ fan but you can't pretend that someone
>can just wear that crown cause they want it.. that ish is like
>the sword in the stone.. you gotta be the ONE in order to be
>able to draw it out and claim the throne...
>
>ain't nobody on that level right now imo....

There's folks who make jams. Lots of jams.

BUT

Everything is too segmented now. And if anyone starts getting liked 'too much', hating mofos will stand on top of tall objects and scream out negative shit about that act to try to drum up some kind of lack of love movement. And the innanet has been and continues to be a hotbed of that type of energy. If something starts gaining steam, someone will show up and try to hate it out. Half of us is trying to make it. The other half is trying to take it. Add in the general public's bloodlust for scandal and nullifying people's whole existence, and it's hard af to get and stay huge. One old soundbyte or video can end your whole shit if it is framed a certain way.

Also, you have to get popular off of the music + some kind of mystique. Aka you can't have a reality show where folks think they know you personally. That kills your mystique even if it gives you an 'in' to have folks listen to your shit. Cardi B for instance.

Bruno is about as close as it gets to undeniably solid and talented nowadays and shiiiid, old heads try to fuck that up all the time! Meanwhile, JT is finna do the super bowl again. Beebs had too much scandal going on. Chris Brown...well, you know. He SHOULD be THE one if you ask me, but..well, you know. Also, if he could have just kept TY$ in a cave, that would have helped too. Now, he's cussing in the middle of songs that don't need cussing and still dancing his ass off..seemingly for nothing. Maybe I'm wrong and dude is still huge.

Side: can someone explain Usher to me? Is Confessions the last HUGE R&B album? Is he now just on light duty..doing victory laps? A bunch of folks sound like him.

It's weird his name isn't in this discussion more.

Hard to understand where he went wrong, but for some reason I can't see him reaching a height which seemed in reach after Confessions, or Yeah, or Oh My God.

Something about him though just seems washed.

Might of started when he started peforming on stage with Justin Beiber looking mad old.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

david guetta era usher and being gone for large swaths of time..

actinjg like Usher wasn't the last Modern artist to go Diamond

have many hits and been only 2nd to R.Kelly in terms of overall Black Male Dominance since the 90's.

Bruno Mars is big and yet he still ain't cracked it like what ARRUh and Usher did. he got time though. however Usher was the last Brother who was a serious threat to a cross over. in the 90's R.kelly had the most top 40 hits..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5sHrsCv6VI



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

randumb fun fact: as i type this, that subthread has more comments than greater than 50% of the lesson page 1 posts - when sorted by date

including the two that are anchored

heat since making this post.

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=JOeb0a-fWUs&feature=share


https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=wSQQe_9uj2o&feature=share

And its on me that I missed this song when it came out.

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=2FvnfXQSLnA&feature=share


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

This joint tough too..
https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=MAdZMegajug&list=RDAMVMMAdZMegajug