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Forum nameThe Lesson
Topic subjectWhich GOAT has a better 4 album run than Kendrick?
Topic URLhttp://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2988897
2988897, Which GOAT has a better 4 album run than Kendrick?
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 10:24 AM
Real debate. No name calling. Which of the GOAT contenders have had a better 4 album (5 if you want to include Untitled/Unmastered) run than K Dot? Be honest and don't let nostalgia cloud your judgement. We know it ain't BDK, Nas or Jay. BIG's life was cut short so he never made it to this point. Let me hear what you got.
2988901, LL Cool J had four straight great albums before he fell the fuck off.
Posted by shockzilla, Sat Apr-22-17 11:49 AM
KRS-One had four straight great albums with BDP.
Redman's first four albums are great.

But, yeah. Kendrick has surpassed damn near everyone in that regard. Cube had three straight classic albums before faltering. Same with Ghostface. Jay, Nas and the rest of the usual suspects don't come close.

and there's no sign of Kenny letting up now.
2988961, RE: LL Cool J had four straight great albums before he fell the fuck off.
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 07:58 PM
>KRS-One had four straight great albums with BDP.
>Redman's first four albums are great.
>
>But, yeah. Kendrick has surpassed damn near everyone in that
>regard. Cube had three straight classic albums before
>faltering. Same with Ghostface. Jay, Nas and the rest of the
>usual suspects don't come close.
>
>and there's no sign of Kenny letting up now.

On point
2988991, Correct..but I'd put 14 Shots ahead of Radio
Posted by fluicide, Sun Apr-23-17 12:44 AM
I hope that's what you're saying..I hate(d) Mr. Smith
2989007, 14 Shots is not a great album
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sun Apr-23-17 09:30 AM
Back Seat and Pink Cookies saved that album from being a flop.
2989073, Eh it still holds up in places
Posted by fluicide, Mon Apr-24-17 12:39 AM
Radio is damn near unlistenable to me.
2989384, caping for 14 Shots but Radio is unlistenable?
Posted by Garhart Poppwell, Wed Apr-26-17 08:30 PM
this "to me" shit is getting out of order.
2988911, RE: Which GOAT has a better 4 album run than Kendrick?
Posted by COOLEHMAGAZINE, Sat Apr-22-17 02:21 PM
Operation Doomsday- Classic
Vik Vaughn- near classic with universal critical acclaim, has aged great
Madvillainy- Classic
MMM…Food- very good but not on level of others


2988912, RE: Which GOAT has a better 4 album run than Kendrick?
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 02:46 PM
>Operation Doomsday- Classic
>Vik Vaughn- near classic with universal critical acclaim, has
>aged great
>Madvillainy- Classic
>MMM…Food- very good but not on level of others
>

Venomous Villain was released in there somewhere so nah. Now if you add Take Me to Your Leader in the mix and go with this order, Operation: Doomsday, Take Me to Your Leader, Vaudeville Villain and Madvillainy, I'm with you.
2988963, yup - agreed
Posted by Kosa12, Sat Apr-22-17 08:02 PM
that is a stellar run
2989094, RE: Which GOAT has a better 4 album run than Kendrick?
Posted by COOLEHMAGAZINE, Mon Apr-24-17 07:31 AM
I left those two out because they aren't real solo albums to me, like a major label artists mixtape.

DOOM is on venomous villains for less than ten minutes of actual rapping time and did none of the beats.

But it's fine if you want to go TMTYL route, since that album is just as good as MM..Food
2988916, Ghostface. Without even counting OB4CL or his Wu work.
Posted by theeraser, Sat Apr-22-17 04:21 PM
2988940, with bulletproof wallets I can't really see it
Posted by Kosa12, Sat Apr-22-17 06:27 PM
Ghost is one of my favorite MCs of all time as well. I will say that I owe his early 2000s (pre Fishscale) discography a re-listen
2988964, I actually love Bulletproof Wallets, esp the unreleased OG version
Posted by theeraser, Sat Apr-22-17 08:03 PM
With the original version of Flowers, the Sun, the Watch....that would've been a classic album.

Unfortunately lost all those tracks along with my entire music collection about 2 years ago :( But i remember the greatness
2989177, Bulletproof Wallets is a good ass album. What you yappin about
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 05:59 PM
Y'all need to stop acting like Section.80 is great. It's not. It has flaws. It's a good ass album with fantastic highs.
2988920, i'll take...
Posted by Small Pro, Sat Apr-22-17 05:13 PM
perhaps two different 4 album stretches from jay-z over k-dot, and then there's ice cube's first 4.

does eric b. and rakim count? damn.

edit: busta rhymes first 4.

edit #2: just realized that i should probably give section 80 another chance...that one never connected with him tbh
2988923, i find Section 80 unlistenable
Posted by bshelly, Sat Apr-22-17 05:26 PM
except for Ronald Reagan Era, which baaaaaaaangs. But it sounds like a dude who desperately needed the Andre Young Finishing School for Young Rappers.
2988932, two different 4 album stretches from jay-z?
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 06:16 PM
>perhaps two different 4 album stretches from jay-z over
>k-dot, and then there's ice cube's first 4.
>
>does eric b. and rakim count? damn.
>
>edit: busta rhymes first 4.
>
>edit #2: just realized that i should probably give section 80
>another chance...that one never connected with him tbh

Jay only got 5 dope albums to me so we can agree to disagree there. Guess it's time for me to pull Cube's Lethal Injection and Busta's Anarchy back out. I don't remember those being that good.
2989425, RE: two different 4 album stretches from jay-z?
Posted by Small Pro, Thu Apr-27-17 04:17 PM
>>perhaps two different 4 album stretches from jay-z over
>>k-dot, and then there's ice cube's first 4.
>>
>>does eric b. and rakim count? damn.
>>
>>edit: busta rhymes first 4.
>>
>>edit #2: just realized that i should probably give section
>80
>>another chance...that one never connected with him tbh
>
>Jay only got 5 dope albums to me so we can agree to disagree
>there. Guess it's time for me to pull Cube's Lethal Injection
>and Busta's Anarchy back out. I don't remember those being
>that good.

Lethal Injection & Anarchy are both 3/5 albums that i personally like more than 3/5, so i dont expect much agreement lol

I also am not too fond of Damn, so there's that.
2989178, what Jay-Z run? please clarify
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:05 PM
Busta?
The Coming - YES
When Disaster Strikes - Yes
E.L.E. - great highs, but just good overall
Anarchy - SOME nice highs, but overall, nah
2989426, RE: what Jay-Z run? please clarify
Posted by Small Pro, Thu Apr-27-17 04:19 PM
Any combination of RD til The Blueprint is good money for me

but i also acknowledge that those have special meaning for me like GKMC or TPAB might have for somebody in hs now, or something
2988922, A lot of groups
Posted by bshelly, Sat Apr-22-17 05:25 PM
Kast's first four are the standard for this category. PE, EPMD, Run DMC and Tribe too.
2988928, Kast first 4 are far and away better
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 05:51 PM
Southern>Section
ATLiens>GKMC
Aquemini>TPAB
Stankonia>DAMN

And that shit isn't even close. People need to put this shit in perspective.
2988937, yeah, it's not close
Posted by Kosa12, Sat Apr-22-17 06:24 PM
that 'Kast run is the greatest 4 album run in hip hop history in my opinion.
2988965, basically
Posted by soulsupreme, Sat Apr-22-17 08:04 PM

_______________________________________
Current Playlist:

Drake - More Life
Syd - FIN
Prince - Controversy
Prince - The Hits/B-Sides







"life is a heist, and the strong get a percentage" - Black Thought
2989181, RE:
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:10 PM
Aquemini = ATLiens > TPAB > Southernplayalistic = GKMC > DAMN. > Stankonia > Section.80
2989220, *shrugs and does the same silly thing*
Posted by Nodima, Mon Apr-24-17 10:55 PM
1. Outkast - ATLiens: 9.67
2. Outkast - Aquemini: 9.53
3. Outkast - Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik: 9.35
1. Kendrick - To Pimp a Butterfly: 8.99
2. Kendrick - good kid, m.A.A.d city: 8.95

3. Kendrick - Section.80: 8.94
4. Outkast - Stankonia: 8.59
4. Kendrick - untitled unmastered.: 8.44
5. Kendrick - DAMN.: 8.21
5. "Outkast" - Speakerboxxx / The Love Below: 7.83
6. Outkast - Idlewild: 7.15
6. Kendrick - Overly Dedicated: 6.65


one thing that I've found interesting about the 2000s, though, is aside from rappers who clearly abused themselves like Lil' Wayne or ran out of things to say like Jay-Z, it's really never been a better time to be a rapper. The genre's been around long enough most artists have learned what works and doesn't and it's a lot harder for rappers to make straight up bad albums anymore unless they get forced to work under a tight budget.

Like I think about OutKast, and when they got "bad" they got "bad" mostly because they got experimental and bored, or Ice Cube/insert rapper her because he got mega successful and bored. Whereas I think a lot of today's artists are going to get "bad" because they get stagnant and boring.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
2989222, RE: Kast first 4 are far and away better
Posted by Tony Hanes, Mon Apr-24-17 11:00 PM
Yep, pretty much. Not sure anyone can top Outkast run..
2988933, RE: A lot of groups
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 06:19 PM
>Kast's first four are the standard for this category. PE,
>EPMD, Run DMC and Tribe too.

PE's fourth album is Apocalypse 91... The Enemy Strikes Black and Tribe has Beats, Rhymes and Life. Three album run for sure though.
2988935, I think BRAL is great.
Posted by Kosa12, Sat Apr-22-17 06:22 PM
I am also 25 and was not there for the initial disappointment of that album coming off of two of the best hip hop albums of all time though. I mean obviously it's a big step down, but the level was so high that that album is dope anyway...
2988938, It's solid. Not bad like The Love Movement
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 06:24 PM
Nowhere near their first three LPs
2988941, word. definitely not on the same level
Posted by Kosa12, Sat Apr-22-17 06:28 PM
2988946, My man...have you heard of averages before?
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 06:38 PM
That is the shit that's getting to me.

It doesn't matter that BR&L is just good because Tribe's first three eclipses whatever Kendrick has released.

Kendrick isn't hitting the same highs as the greats yet. I'll give you TPAB but that's 1 of 4 while you just said the others have 3 of 4.

I just find it funny that people think Kendrick has 4 bulletproof classics.

The shit is overboard.
2989183, Section.80 is not great. You said 4 album run and BRL > .80
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:12 PM
.
2989224, RE: I think BRAL is great.
Posted by Tony Hanes, Mon Apr-24-17 11:03 PM
BRAL is a GREAT album when you go back and listen now. It followed Low End and Marauders... that was the issue. I'm in my 40's and remember its release and I was happy with it..
2989002, i'd take both those albums over section 80
Posted by bshelly, Sun Apr-23-17 08:26 AM
for all its faults, apocalypse has a couple amazing, peak PE moments, and bral is just chilled out B-grade Tribe. Both are better than Section 80
2989182, RUN DMC?
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:11 PM
PE, which four? consecutive?

EPMD, ok
2989201, are you 15?
Posted by bshelly, Mon Apr-24-17 08:11 PM
2989210, Nah but you posting washed as shit
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 08:57 PM
Claiming Run DMC got 4 very good to classic albums run

And again what 4 album run from PE
2989227, Run DMC's self titled to Tougher Than Leather is a great run
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Apr-24-17 11:21 PM
As is Yo Bumrush the Show to Apocalypse 91.
2989232, ok. that's fine. before my time
Posted by astralblak, Tue Apr-25-17 12:23 AM
.
2989236, I don't remember Apocalypse 91 being that great
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Tue Apr-25-17 05:45 AM
Gotta pull that back out today
2989239, it was defintely the last good one.
Posted by Shogun, Tue Apr-25-17 07:25 AM
2989261, There's a lot of heat on it
Posted by mrhood75, Tue Apr-25-17 09:44 AM
Along with the singles (Shut 'Em Down, Can't Truss It, Arizona, Nightrain), there's also Move, Get the Fuck Outta Dodge, Bottle Bags, Rebirth, etc.

The Flav solo tracks are on the weak side (esp. More News at 11) and I can understand not liking the heavy metal version of Bring the Noise, but as a whole, it's a damn good album.
2988927, It's official...K Dot is the most overrated of all-time
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 05:42 PM
And I like dude...but damn.

I'll take Nas' first 4.

Illmatic and It Was Written are better than any of his albums and DAMN is very reminiscent to I Am in the sense that it's Kendrick fitting into the mainstream sound wise with tracks like Loyalty, Humble, Love, and God.

Thing is...there's nothing on DAMN in the same realm of NY State of Mind PT 2 or Nas Is Like and while we're at it, Kendrick is getting some love for his stories and nothing he has on DAMN is on the level of Small World or Undying Love.

In short, Kendrick is dope and clearly the leader of the new school but to act as if his highs are on the same level as someone like Nas just isn't accurate. The game is different now and the bar is lowered and that's fine but let's refrain from trying to compare eras at this point.

2988930, Nas is my favorite MC of all time
Posted by Kosa12, Sat Apr-22-17 06:03 PM
but we are going to disagree here.

Illmatic is obviously better than anything Kendrick has released or will release, however I do enjoy To Pimp A Butterfly more than any Nas release not named Illmatic. It Was Written is better than all of the other Kendrick albums, that said Kendrick has not released an album even close to as bad as I Am or Nastradamus, sure the highs on those albums are GOAT-tier (NY State Of Mind Part 2, Project Windows), but they are not good albums. I would take Section 80, Untitled Unmastered, GKMC and DAMN over both of those overall.
2988936, Fam, miss me with Nas. I Am and Nastradamus are not good
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 06:23 PM
Nas is Mount Rushmore status and my favorite emcee of all-time but nah. You don't like Kendrick and that's cool. I've seen your comments about his music.
2988945, I do like Kendrick
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 06:35 PM
I just don't have him on messiah level like y'all.

It's just strange how the bar gets moved and then all of a sudden MCs are equals.

Nastradmus is not good, I Am is good. The thing with Nas is that if his album isn't GREAT y'all act like it sucks.

Like I said, the highs on I Am are higher than DAMN. That shit is fact.

And I really don't want to make this Nas vs Kendrick thing because my point is that Kendrick simply isn't on GOAT level status and he never will be. He isn't that nice. He has one GREAT album and that is TPAB.

Kendrick has done a magnificent job of earning "ambition points" and people tend to like his project concepts more than the actually music.

He also has landed perfectly on that middle line of intelligence where the mainstream fans think he's a genius and the heads love the fact that he's creative and saying something regardless if they think he's the best MC or not.

That is what he is great at. He has found a way to connect and make less intelligent people think he's deeper than he is and intelligent people love him for pushing that agenda in the mainstream.
2988949, hmmm
Posted by Kosa12, Sat Apr-22-17 07:01 PM
>I just don't have him on messiah level like y'all.

You don't have to be a messiah to make better albums than I Am and Nastradamus, I think every MC is worse than Nas, but lots of MCs have made better albums than those

>It's just strange how the bar gets moved and then all of a
>sudden MCs are equals.

The bar hasn't been moved, we just don't agree with you

>Nastradmus is not good, I Am is good. The thing with Nas is hat if his album isn't GREAT y'all act like it sucks.

Nastradamus is terrible. I Am is a bad album that could be greatly enhanced by some trimming. I don't think Hip Hop is Dead or Untitled are great albums, but I don't think they are bad - definitely not as bad as the ones we are talking about.

>Like I said, the highs on I Am are higher than DAMN. That shit
>is fact.

Not a fact, but I agree with you, though if you ask me in a couple years I may have "FEAR" on that level - that is one of my favorite hip hop songs in a long time. The highs on I Am are aided by the fact that I have pretty much memorized them at this point lol.

My main point is - like you made a comment on averages in this post - if I were to create an average for I Am (track scores) it would not be as high as any Kendrick album. We can agree to disagree on that, but I just wanted to make that clear.

As for your comments on people liking Kendrick's concepts more than his actual music...don't really see how that is true at all, especially after the reception of DAMN, then again it's hard to have a conversation like this without factoring in our age difference...I am pretty confident in saying that there is a huge audience in/around my age (25) that genuinely loves Kendrick's music
2988951, When did I say he was on messiah level?
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 07:04 PM
lol you be jumping the gun fam. I just asked a few questions for an open discussion and lately you just don't like having those.

And I agree that the highs on I Am are better. NY State of Mind 2, Small World, Nas is Like and Undying Love are some of Nas best songs. Still a bad album.
2988970, Bad album or not...
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 08:24 PM
I'll take those highs over DAMN.

So if DAMN is a great album but I Am has higher highs what does that tell you about DAMN.

Those 4 joints are better than DAMN and even though I Am is lacking in spots, I'm taking those highs. Plain and simple.
2989079, But I Am and Nastradamus are bad albums
Posted by ChampD1012, Mon Apr-24-17 06:01 AM
It's has some highs but as a cohesive body of work, it's not good.
2989098, And that is what DAMN is lol
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 07:59 AM
2989187, says you, most of us say its good as fuck
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:19 PM
.
2989186, RE: Sorry My G
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:18 PM
NY State of Mind 2 <--- si, better than anything 'cept maybe Duckworth, but...

give me: Duckworth, DNA, Fear, Yah, and Lust over any of these:

Small World
Nas is Like
Undying Love --> well, maybe not that one
2988957, RE: I do like Kendrick
Posted by spidey, Sat Apr-22-17 07:47 PM
Your right on...problem is, you can't just like dude, to his groupies, your all the way in, he is the greatest of all time, or you're on the other side and your a hater/don't get his genius. That is the tone in the lesson. Again, me personally, I think duke is talented, and I like a lot of his ish, but the second coming, nah....
2988960, I asked a few questions just to get a discussion going but
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 07:57 PM
you and Anonymous come in with the BS instead of giving examples of people that you think have a greater four album run. Nowhere in my post have I said anything about K Dot being the second coming or the GOAT. Add to the discussion on KIM.
2988969, Really my dude?
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 08:20 PM
I gave you honest discussion and you said "miss me with Nas"

My "real discussion" is that Kendrick's 4 album run ain't what y'all making it out to be.

Yes, I will take I Am over DAMN. because there are joints on I Am that I would much rather hear than on DAMN.

It's cool if you're in on the hype and are falling for the lowered bar shit but miss me with that shit.

2988977, RE: I asked a few questions just to get a discussion going but
Posted by spidey, Sat Apr-22-17 10:04 PM
Discussions often go in different directions my man, which is part of communication. I appreciate the post, and the different perspectives....don't know if it matters what GOAT I believe has had a better run, I'm already branded concerning Kendrick, even though I continually speak to dukes talent...
2988986, Nailed it.
Posted by Brew, Sun Apr-23-17 12:03 AM
>Again, me
>personally, I think duke is talented, and I like a lot of his
>ish, but the second coming, nah....
2989185, "GOAT status and will never be," says who? You?
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:16 PM
lolzers

Nastradamus sucks blud

The highs on DAMN are for sure better than the highs on IAM, lol FOH

and Kendrick's lyrics are as problematic as Nas' hotep shit, but much more honest and introspective than anything on IAM

we get it, you upset a youngin done made a case to be in the convo
2989116, 9th talks about how 3 big named rappers passed up on the
Posted by The3rdOne, Mon Apr-24-17 11:00 AM
"Duckworth" beats.

I'd put my 401k on Nas being one of them.
2989118, Those beats are very average
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 11:13 AM
2989188, LOFL, this yt boi losing his shit
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:20 PM
.
2989113, Pac's life matters
Posted by The3rdOne, Mon Apr-24-17 10:54 AM
2989184, LOL. yt tears
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:12 PM
.
2988931, Are we counting groups?
Posted by Kosa12, Sat Apr-22-17 06:12 PM
If so, I agree with the post above, 'Kast and 'Tribe have to be the top in this category for me. De La is up there as well.

And since we are on the subject I keep a list of great 4 album runs that I have heard across all genres: https://rateyourmusic.com/list/Kosa12/follow-the-leader-great-album-runs/
2988939, RE: Are we counting groups?
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 06:25 PM
I would take De La's first four over Tribe
2988943, I can definitely see why
Posted by Kosa12, Sat Apr-22-17 06:30 PM
because De La's first four does not contain an album like BRAL - an album so obviously not on the same level, but for me De La's first four - despite containing some of my favorite hip hop albums of all time...all are amazing projects - does not have anything I like as much as MM or LET (which are basically hip hop perfection to me).
2989148, RE: I can definitely see why
Posted by Eric B Is Prez, Mon Apr-24-17 02:50 PM
If you put a gun to my head I'd have to say that Tribe had higher highs in terms of songs, but De La's first four albums were stronger and more consistent overall. Tribe's 1st and 4th albums had a few shaky spots.
2988934, I love seeing my boys Kast get that love!
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 06:21 PM
Just don't let me go through these posts and see y'all talking sideways about Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik and Stankonia. I've seen that on OKP.
2988987, Haha I've seen it too.
Posted by Brew, Sun Apr-23-17 12:06 AM
>Just don't let me go through these posts and see y'all
>talking sideways about Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik and
>Stankonia. I've seen that on OKP.

And it's mindblowing. They're the lesser two in that four album span but they're still amazing.
2989006, Yeah
Posted by Kosa12, Sun Apr-23-17 09:11 AM
I mean, Stankonia is ridiculous "Snappin n Trappin" "Red Velvet" "Gangsta Shit" "Spaghetti Junction"....the classic singles.....shit that whole album pretty much is great...even the tracks without rapping like "Toilet Tisha" are fantastic
2989039, Three of my favorite Outkast songs.
Posted by Brew, Sun Apr-23-17 03:21 PM
>"Red
>Velvet" "Gangsta Shit" "Spaghetti Junction"....
2989054, Spaghetti Junction is so raw!
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 08:52 PM
2989199, Okay I'll be the odd man out and say I really didn't like Stank
Posted by aesop socks, Mon Apr-24-17 08:09 PM
I love some of the songs on there Humble Mumble, Red Velvet, Slum Beautiful, the singles are cool. The rest of the album gets skipped it's hard to listen to all the way through. It's irritating cuz they hit you gems like Red Velvet then you get some bullshit like I'll Call Before I Come or that song with B Real that I hate.
2989248, Haha yea I'll Call Before I Come is pretty bad.
Posted by Brew, Tue Apr-25-17 08:32 AM
>It's
>irritating cuz they hit you gems like Red Velvet then you get
>some bullshit like I'll Call Before I Come or that song with B
>Real that I hate.
2989262, Probably the worst Kast song ever imo
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Apr-25-17 09:44 AM
2988947, I need to revisit Common's discography
Posted by amplifya7, Sat Apr-22-17 06:46 PM
Can I Borrow A Dollar
Resurrection
One Day It'll All Make Sense
Like Water For Chocolate
Electric Circus
Be

some of the homophobia/anti-abortion/misogyny lines havent aged well, but I want to say thats as good as any run by a solo rapper.
2988952, if you're referring to Retrospect For Life
Posted by Garhart Poppwell, Sat Apr-22-17 07:06 PM
that song isn't anti-abortion as much as it is him lamenting over making a decision he regretted.
2988955, yeah, i just relistened, it didn't make me cringe as much as i remember
Posted by amplifya7, Sat Apr-22-17 07:24 PM
"Must have really thought I was God to take the life of my son" made me wince, but nothing else really
2988973, Common for sure
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 08:44 PM
2988988, Yea I like Can I Borrow but ...
Posted by Brew, Sun Apr-23-17 12:08 AM
... I'm a stan so, I would.

So that aside if we're talking 4 album runs I think you'd have to realistically start with Resurrection. Electric Circus is polarizing but I think it's grown on even the haters with time. So he'd definitely have to be a contender in this discussion. Resurrection thru Be is as great a run as anyone has ever had, IMO.
2989008, Can I Borrow A Dollar is cool
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sun Apr-23-17 09:33 AM
I wouldn't include it with a great run of albums though.
2988959, Also how about...Step In The Arena, Daily Operation, Hard To Earn,
Posted by amplifya7, Sat Apr-22-17 07:51 PM
Moment of Truth.
2988966, I'm glad you made this post, Nick.
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Sat Apr-22-17 08:18 PM
The thought to compare Kendrick's first four vs anyone else's best four came to mind, but I never got around to digging for the answer.

On one level it's a moot point to talk about if his run is better than any other because the fact that we're even having this conversation is a mark that Kendrick is one of the best to ever do it.

It speaks to the level of difficulty of making four consecutive quality albums because very few groups and virtually no solo acts have been able to pull off. It's hard being in a stable enough environment over the majority of a decade that it would take to record the albums. Especially in a culture like hip-hop that celebrates self-destructive behavior and has a life-cycle of trends that moves faster than any other genre, with the exception of EDM.

I rarely admire the personal lives of musicians, but I would like to know where Kendrick gets his maturity and level-headedness. He reminds me of LeBron James in that regard. Life gave them no reason to survive much less be one of the best to do it in their respective fields. Yet not only have they 'made it', they both willingly accept their status of role models and use their influence and notoriety to genuinely inspire their fans. In this age of the social media age when most folks stunt or show out for their competition, they are remarkably humble and grounded. Granted they're one weak-minded incident from 'throwing it all away', but I still respect them for their modesty.

I say that to say, that I think Kendrick's stable lifestyle is the most significant reason for his success. He seems to have a group of trusted people who keep him from running off of the rails which given his level of success is extremely valuable.

He's also had his fair run of luck. He managed to link up with Dre who obviously gave him the type of education and mentorship in the music industry that no other of his peers has. Dre thankfully didn't turn him into an Em clone or make him rap about content that would seem out of character for him.

He also is able to learn from the mistakes that all of the rappers throughout the history of rap and is better for that. He also is an artist when there is no real competition in the style of music he makes. There are copy cats of 2 Chainz or Future or Migos, but there's no one, with his notoriety, who makes anything approaching challenging music. In our time we had groups like The Roots or Tribe or De La or Common or Black Star or dozens others. So, Kendrick is able to stand out as an artist with ANY substance.

Maybe that's why people like Anonymous take issue with his notoriety. He's not doing anything radically different than what dozens of other MC's have done over the years. Kendrick then comes off like a kid who has two eyes in a class of MC's who only have one. He's succeeding because there's no competition not because he outshined other great competition.

That's a valid point. I don't get the talk about Chance even though I respect what he's accomplished. The same squeeky, bendy voice I love about Kendrick, I literally can't stand in Chance's music. So, Kendrick happens to fit my definition of what an MC is, rather than other contemporary MC's.

But for the first time in decades there's someone worth comparing to the greats in hip-hop and that's both exciting and interesting to take note of.
2988972, Good post
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 08:34 PM
I love what Kendrick brings.

I love TPAB but his other albums are just cool to me.

If I look at DAMN, I like DNA, YAH, ELEMENT, FEEL, PRIDE, FEAR, DUCKWORTH.

That's cool...and then there are joint I actually is like, LOYALTY, HUMBLE, LOVE, GOD.

I don't particularly like LUST OR XXX either.

And even though I like DUCKWORHT, I don't like 9th and think his beats sound cheap many times.

So if I'm honest about what that album is, it is very similar to I Am.

A lot of that has to do with his era and the bar being lowered.

He has not reached the same heights as some of the greats to me. I have boys who say "Drake is cool for what he is today" and I'm like what does that mean? I still rank Drake against MCs Black Thought because he's an MC right? And if I do that, Drake isn't in the same league. And then my boys reply "of course not". So what are we really talking about?

Everyone has the same measures to me. I'm not grading these cats on a curve.

2988974, RE: Good post
Posted by obsidianchrysalis, Sat Apr-22-17 08:53 PM
>Everyone has the same measures to me. I'm not grading these
>cats on a curve.
>

Not that I think Kendrick doesn't match up to some of the other great groups / MC's that are listed in this post, but I do tend to be biased towards the older acts. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with my age when I heard the legacy acts, because there are a lot of current MC's who are good but I don't listen to them regularly.

I think a lot of it is simply the climate which hip-hop is in versus the climate back in the 90's. The culture is a lot different in a few cases for the better. But I also know that so much of what a lot of purists liked about hip-hop has been stripped away. I think that's why Kendrick gets so much acclaim; he reminds people of the days when hip-hop was more focused on creativity and originality.

He's one of the few artists, in any genre, that really puts thought into his work and is able to present challenging ideas and perspectives in ways that are stimulating and articulate. He's refreshing, even if what he's doing isn't entirely new.
2988971, Scarface
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 08:26 PM
Period
2988978, Scarface, to me, has never dropped album lower than 4/5
Posted by hammam, Sat Apr-22-17 10:13 PM
2988979, Most def
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sat Apr-22-17 10:24 PM
2989012, Which 4 album run?
Posted by go mack, Sun Apr-23-17 10:33 AM
I like Scarface, one of the best all time no doubt but also feel his album consistency is overrated on this board. I'd take Nas discography over his any day myself. Most his albums, later ones especially, just aren't ones I find myself going back to often.
2989015, You pick the 4
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 10:39 AM
2989017, You would take Nas discog over Face
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sun Apr-23-17 11:26 AM
even though he has the firm album, i am, nastradamus, HHID and nigger in his discog. Nas is my favorite emcee but his catalog is inconsistent too. Late 90s were the dark years for Nas fans.
2989028, You are rrally overstating it bro
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 12:45 PM
I Am is dope and got love when it dropped.

Nastradamus was weak but the song everyone hates was actually a hit especially with females.

I'm starting to think people weren't around when those albums dropped.

Or maybe y'all didn't talk to females.

And before you call bullshit on me using the female fan base as something to stand on, decide if you want to wipe that factor out for other MCs you give props to for it.
2989042, RE: You are rrally overstating it bro
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sun Apr-23-17 03:48 PM
>I Am is dope and got love when it dropped.
>

Not dope and maybe it got love where you are. Around my way we were hyped when we heard Nas Is Like. Got the album and the production just wasn't working. NY State of Mind 2, Small World, Nas Is Like and Undying Love are the only tracks I revist.

>Nastradamus was weak but the song everyone hates was actually
>a hit especially with females.
>

So with Nas we care about hits? The song was terrible and the album was weak.

>I'm starting to think people weren't around when those albums
>dropped.

Nope. People were around. I was 20 and my niggas were laughing at me because my favorite rapper dropped a dud. He got a generous 3 mic review in the source too. I would've given it 2.5 mics.

>
>Or maybe y'all didn't talk to females.
>

And what does this have to do with a Nas album?

>And before you call bullshit on me using the female fan base
>as something to stand on, decide if you want to wipe that
>factor out for other MCs you give props to for it.

Who have I given props to because they have a female fan base? I have never said "this album is dope because the ladies like it" You def got me confused with somebody else.
2989225, RE: You are rrally overstating it bro
Posted by Tony Hanes, Mon Apr-24-17 11:09 PM
Funny that people forget Nas "I AM" got 4.5 Mics in The Source in 1999... it was a dope album..
2989229, The version they rated wasn't the one that was eventually released in stores
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Apr-24-17 11:36 PM
Wish I kept my mags. Anybody got scans of the source from 1999?
2989233, the crazy thing...
Posted by dula dibiasi, Tue Apr-25-17 12:45 AM
is that you can *easily* cobble together a GREAT double album from nas's late 90's material

(one of many many articles that tackle the idea, this one reimagining the project as a GKMC-style rise-and-fall narrative suite:
http://broken-language.tumblr.com/post/81991114712/i-am-revisited-searching-for-nas-lost-classic)

if he'd actually released the album he could have made, i think we'd look at his career in an entirely different light.
2989038, I think the mid late 2000 Nas period is the darkest times for nas fans
Posted by High Society, Sun Apr-23-17 03:08 PM
stillmatic - alright... got the nas is back treatment because of the battle
god's son - def his best since I AM and his best until Life is Good
street's disciple
hip hop is dead
untitled


def gets back on track with Life is Good which is fantastic.

Nas' discography is super hit and miss.
I'm not a huge fan of his discog, almost every album is too hit and miss


though the highs are so high he's in my top 10 and sometimes top 5
because in the top 5 he's 5th and gets bumped in and out a lot.
2989048, I would personally
Posted by go mack, Sun Apr-23-17 06:51 PM
Nas is my fav rapper tho and I do have bias but I enjoy all his albums. I think the majority of his albums are really good except Nastradamus. Lyricism is key tho for me, I love Nas flow. I Am, Untitled and Hiphop is Dead are better than most Scarface albums to me and I know that will be an unpopular opinion.

Scarface makes consistently good albums but I rarely relisten to them. The Diary is the one I go back to most often. I can't even name his last 3 tho without looking them up.
2989645, Yup
Posted by justin_scott, Mon May-01-17 11:43 PM
No denying that
2988980, The Roots / Black Thought
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 10:27 PM
2988982, i was going to say that, but which 4?
Posted by amplifya7, Sat Apr-22-17 10:53 PM
i guess it would have to be
Do You Want More
Illadelph Halflife
Things Fall Apart
Phrenology

?

2988983, Yeah, those 4
Posted by Anonymous, Sat Apr-22-17 10:55 PM
2989023, agreed
Posted by Kosa12, Sun Apr-23-17 12:14 PM
2989010, We not counting Organix?
Posted by shockzilla, Sun Apr-23-17 10:14 AM
2989014, Not sure what you're asking
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 10:37 AM
Are we not counting it because you think it's good enough or are we not counting it because it's the debut?

Seems like some people think this post is about first 4 albums but the original post does not make that specific.

2989041, ahh, my bad, you're right.
Posted by shockzilla, Sun Apr-23-17 03:39 PM
I was taking as the first four.
2989266, Honestly I think that makes a stronger case for Kendrick
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-25-17 10:01 AM
If we're just running with "first four" and abandoning the artificial parameters of "GOAT level" and "four album run" makes for a dishonest premise.

Conversely, leaving it at "first four" makes a much stronger point in Kendrick's favor due to his popularity, particularly with an album like TPAB in the mix. I don't know that anyone strikes the balances he does.

Leaving it at first four removes a lot of subjectivity and puts things on an even keel to work from.

I think this places Kendrick in a much stronger position relative to his peers in this context.
2989380, Easily
Posted by ToeJam, Wed Apr-26-17 06:48 PM
2989013, Rakim for sure n/m
Posted by go mack, Sun Apr-23-17 10:37 AM
2989016, Oddisee
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 11:10 AM
People Hear What They See
Tangible Dream
The Good Fight
The Iceberg

throw In The Ruff and March On Washington in there for good measure.
2989020, you're trying way too hard
Posted by atruhead, Sun Apr-23-17 12:06 PM
2989027, Ok...
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 12:41 PM
Don't you work for Complex?
2989252, yes, I definitely work for Complex.
Posted by atruhead, Tue Apr-25-17 08:54 AM
2989022, I disagree entirely but
Posted by Kosa12, Sun Apr-23-17 12:13 PM
I'm just here to say that The Iceberg is a great album, it will probably go down as one of the best of the year to me - Odd's best so far and anyone who hasn't listened to it yet should. It has great hooks (something that was at times lacking for Odd) and has his best lyricism yet combined with what is definitely the best he has gotten with his more instrument focused (instead of samples) production approach (bass player is fantastic).
2989029, RE: I disagree entirely but
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 12:46 PM
See but I'm crazy to say The Iceberg is better than DAMN.

And it's not even close.

With that said, TPAB was better than The Good Fight.

I definitely enjoyed PHWTA more than GKMC.

And TD is better than Section .80.

I think I rock with Alwasta more than UU too.

Both are great artists though and I'm glad they're doing their thing.
2989033, Word
Posted by Kosa12, Sun Apr-23-17 01:41 PM
I honestly disagree with you on every single one of those, I enjoy the Kendrick albums more in regards to every aspect, except for me between DAMN vs The Iceberg it's difficult because they both just came out and I really enjoy both on a similar level, except DAMN has much higher highs and lower lows IMO. The Iceberg is a much more consistent album in terms of quality - this kind of mirrors the I Am discussion except both of these albums are MUCH BETTER than I Am IMO. Anyway, I wouldn't say it's crazy to prefer The Iceberg at all, because it is a great album and also they are radically different MCs haha.

and yeah, both are great - I'm seeing Oddisse live in May
2989055, I just can't rock with this...
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 09:00 PM
>I honestly disagree with you on every single one of those, I
>enjoy the Kendrick albums more in regards to every aspect,
>except for me between DAMN vs The Iceberg it's difficult
>because they both just came out and I really enjoy both on a
>similar level, except DAMN has much higher highs and lower
>lows IMO. The Iceberg is a much more consistent album in terms
>of quality - this kind of mirrors the I Am discussion except
>both of these albums are MUCH BETTER than I Am IMO. Anyway, I
>wouldn't say it's crazy to prefer The Iceberg at all, because
>it is a great album and also they are radically different MCs
>haha.
>
>and yeah, both are great - I'm seeing Oddisse live in May

DAMN has much higher highs? Nah, not at all. The production on The Iceberg is just simply better and the songs are written better. People are really under estimating how dope Oddisee is on the mic. He is a GREAT songwriter and his delivery are in the pocket on his beats perfectly.

What are these high highs on DAMN? It honestly feels like people *want* there to be high highs because we feel there should be. I get it...he's the new cat to love and he's got mainstream success so it makes it easy to ride for him because he is a very good artist among the rest of the bullshit. But I'm just not on that wavelength. There is absolutely nothing outstanding at DAMN at all. And y'all got me shitting on it when I actually like about half of it. But the highs are not there. The hype is really pushing this shit to a level it's not.

I've only seen the live clips of Oddisee on YouTube but he looks dope live so I hope you enjoy!

Who knows...maybe when you see him live you will be even more of a fan.
2989061, You don't have to rock with it
Posted by Kosa12, Sun Apr-23-17 09:32 PM
"It honestly feels like people *want* there to be high highs because we feel there should be. I get it...he's the new cat to love and he's got mainstream success so it makes it easy to ride for him because he is a very good artist among the rest of the bullshit." Pretty much addressed this opinion in the post I wrote to Spidey, but no, that is not the reason I personally hold him in such high regard, you are going to have to deal with the fact that some people just don't think like this.

Anyway, I don't agree with you at all. DAMN has higher highs with Pride, Fear, DNA, Duckworth, Lust, Feel, - I love all of those songs more than my favorite songs on the Odd record, which are "You Grew Up" and "Like Really". I have listened to that Odd album a lot - I think Odd is a great rapper and producer, one of the best around right now in fact - I loved the Odd Tape too - but I think Kendrick is a better rapper and have for an extremely long time (though OKP is the only place this comparison gets brought up I'm sure had you asked me this around the time Section 80 dropped I would've told you the same thing). Kendrick has much more range stylistically as far as his vocals and flow goes and is also, like Oddisse, a great lyricist.

Anyway, Odd is dope live, I saw him open up for Talib Kweli in like 2010 and he was amazing - he was also with Diamond District. That was a great show - in DC too.
2989062, RE: You don't have to rock with it
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 09:47 PM
to me, lyrics are lyrics and there is not one verse on DAMN that stands out to me. Kendrick to me is more in the lane of 2Pac with much more dynamics to his delivery. Lyrically...he is far from groundbreaking. His points are earned on emotion and dynamics.

I'll give you Feel, DNA, Pride, and Fear. But none of those outside of Feel are amazing. I'm sorry, at some point y'all gonna have to accept that people don't feel *that way*

Lust is borderline awful and the beat to Duckworth is not in the same realm as far as quality as anything on Iceberg.

*shrugs*

2989025, When has Oddisee ever been mentioned in the GOAT discussion?
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sun Apr-23-17 12:34 PM
2989026, GOAT discussion or not he's better than Kendrick
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 12:40 PM
So what does that say about the GOAT discussion?
2989030, +
Posted by LeroyBumpkin, Sun Apr-23-17 01:06 PM
2989032, That's your opinion
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Sun Apr-23-17 01:22 PM
>So what does that say about the GOAT discussion?

It says that Oddisee is not in the discussion for a reason
2989056, The reason is the hype...
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 09:03 PM
That's it my dude. I feel bad that you're falling for that shit and you're so old.

I don't like the GOAT conversation because people act like an MC needs to reach a certain level of success before they're in the conversation.

Popularity has nothing to do with quality.

Popularity means you have the machine pushing your album and that white America buys your shit.

I'm sorry, you can use that as a qualifier but I don't.
2989077, LOL
Posted by shockzilla, Mon Apr-24-17 04:47 AM
FOH
2989293, SMH not like this man
Posted by 13Rose, Tue Apr-25-17 02:19 PM
not like this.
2989296, Like what?
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Apr-25-17 02:39 PM
2989031, RE: When has Oddisee ever been mentioned in the GOAT discussion?
Posted by spidey, Sun Apr-23-17 01:21 PM
And Oddisee should not be involved in that discussion, as he is still relatively young in his career. Odd's greatness comes from the fact that not only can he spit, he produces all of his own ish. One of the best dual threats ever, all on his own, no co-signs needed. Pure talent. I think a lot of the arguments in this post, and many others concerning Kendrick come down to perspective. As a widely mainstream artist, Kendrick is hailed for his messages and his largely conscious content, with a cool flow. Thing is, yes, in relation to his peers like Drake/Cole and the like, it's impressive. He is just that much more authentic and natural then them. That said, to cats who have been listening to Hip Hop for a minute, who listen to more underground (for lack of a better term) geared artists, what Kendrick is bringing is just not all that special/unique/impressive. So again, it's perspective. For young brothers who have not taken, or had the opportunity to dig deeper than what is easily accessible, I can see why dude might be seen as the greatest....
2989035, Good post - I get where you are coming from
Posted by Kosa12, Sun Apr-23-17 02:00 PM
To start off I don't think Kendrick is the greatest obviously and on the other side obviously I know you enjoy his music (had to get that out of the way because sometimes the arguments just go 0 to 100 here), but what happens if you have the perspective - I'm younger than a lot of ya'll but I can guarantee I have heard/talked about most if not all the classics/underground stuff that we frequently talk about here - and still think he is on at least a historically competitive/significant run. I mean when I say Kendrick is my favorite current hip hop artist (current being the key word), I'm not even comparing him to Drake and Cole, I don't even like those dudes - I'm comparing him to stuff I actually think is dope - the recent releases of artists in my taste which is Open Mike Eagle, Aesop Rock, Odd, Milo, Elucid, RTJ etc, I mean I know for a fact that me and you are fans of a lot of the same underground stuff.

I agree with you in the sense that, if someone young who hasn't done their homework comes up to me and tells me Kendrick is the greatest - I would obviously tell them I disagree but see why they might say that due to the way that the mainstream is set up/has been set up for years. That said, I disagree with you in the sense that (you seem to be implying this) if you know your hip hop history and listen to non-commercial stuff (AKA our taste in music) you will not think he is special/unique/impressive - I think he is all those things.

2989036, RE: Good post - I get where you are coming from
Posted by spidey, Sun Apr-23-17 02:52 PM
Great points. Appreciate the respectful dialogue bro...
2989059, RE: Good post - I get where you are coming from
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 09:10 PM
I do agree that Kendrick is on the level of the MCs you mentioned.

I do like him to that degree.

However, I don't think he's above making just good music.

The thing with K Dot is that a lot of his fans already rate his shit classic before it drops. That the shit I don't rock with.

I was anticipating this album but I didn't go in looking for a reason to love that shit.

If he releases Drake type songs...which he did...I'm not going to ride with it because it's Kendrick. That's some fake shit to me.

Btw...Aesop is head and shoulders above Kendrick lyrically. But I'm sure I'm crazy for saying that too.

2989063, that's fair
Posted by Kosa12, Sun Apr-23-17 10:05 PM
>I do agree that Kendrick is on the level of the MCs you
>mentioned.
>
>I do like him to that degree.
>
>However, I don't think he's above making just good music.

Cool. I'll expand on where I was coming from with mentioning the other MCs

I think some of those dudes are making of have made great or in certain cases straight up amazing music. So when I put Kendrick on their level I'm saying he is as well, but he has been doing that consistently for 5 projects now (and most importantly for the sake of this conversation, released TPAB which you know my opinion on). Milo's So The Flies Don't Come is one of my favorite hip hop albums of the last I don't even know how many years. That new Aesop Rock album is literally probably going to end up being one of my favorite hip hop albums period. Elucid is making some great musically dissonant and passionate experimental hip hop etc. Don't even get me started on Run The Jewels lol.

I have never called anything classic before it has dropped, and yes, Aesop Rock is better lyrically than Kendrick Lamar IMO, but it's a radically different super abstract approach to lyricism that for obvious reasons connects with much fewer people so we are in the minority with that opinion (which isn't a bad thing per se, but it's definitely true).

Out of the overtly pop songs I really like "LOYALTY" - I guess I could see Drake on it, but "LOVE" (which is really Drake-ish) and "GOD" (which is more Kanye/Chance) are terrible.

2989066, this is the one area we differ in...
Posted by Anonymous, Sun Apr-23-17 10:26 PM

>Kendrick on their level I'm saying he is as well, but he has
>been doing that consistently for 5 projects now

I honestly don't hold that opinion. Section 80 was cool but I never went back to it outside of maybe 4 joints.

I didn't even like GKMC. I don't like the in your face "this is a story/film" approach. And that's what I mean when I say he is at the perfect intelligence level for people to LOVE him. People see that and say "oh shit, this guy is writing films!" Thats a bullshit gimmick to me.

And it's one thing if it is quality music but I didn't even like the songs on that joint.

Sherane is whatever
Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe is cool
Backstreet Freestyle was annoying as fuck
Art of Peer Pressure was worthless outside of the "film"
Money Tree was cool
Poetic Justice is *shrugs*
Good Kid and Maad City are dope
Swimming Pools was wack to me
Sing About Me and Dying of Thirst were cool
Real was ok
Compton was just tacked on for the Dre feature.

See, to me, that is a good album but not the bulletproof classic people claim it is.

TPAB is a great album and with that said, not many songs stand on their own.

and I've already explained DAMN.

so when you say that he has 5 great albums...I just don't see it.

I'll take Labor Days, None Shall Pass, Skelethon, and The Impossible Kid easily over those Kendrick albums. Aesop is on some mind-blowing shit imo.

And it's cool if Kendrick is to y'all because I do like him, but I just think his popularity is playing into the exaggerated love. I refuse to believe that it's not. That shit has something to do with it and y'all can't even say it doesn't because in this post multiple people said who gets the right to be in the GOAT conversation and it ALL ultimately revolves around their popularity.

That's some Grammy's shit. Like you have to hit a certain level of success before you can make a claim and as I stated that success doesn't factor in to me.
2989119, honestly, though? It is strange how worked up you seem over K.dot
Posted by Stadiq, Mon Apr-24-17 11:15 AM

You are all up in every thread about him trying to, I guess, change people's minds or catch them in something or some sh!t.

I don't get it.


Take the Oddisee thing.

I don't get what ya'll see (hear) in dude. I mean, he is clearly a great producer.

But I find him boring, often average on the Mic, and frankly...WAY too regular dude preachy. WAY too preachy.


I kind of feel the same way about him that you do about Kendrick...I think a lot of folks already decide they are going to like his music before it drops.

Is it as many people as Kendrick? No. But the same type of instant praise happens.


I try it, don't get, and keep it moving.

I may make a "I wish I liked him like ya'll" type post, and its the end.


Because I figure it just isn't my cup of tea.

A lot of folks on here LOVE him, and ya'll have good taste in general.

So why would I park myself in every Oddisee thread trying to have ya'll prove to me WHY you like him so much??


That is basically what it seems like you are doing here. I think you have posted in these threads more than anyone else, which you gotta admit bro...is...odd.


I'd ask that you kind of check the whole "ya'll are brainwashed" type accusations too.

A lot of us are just as old, have similar tastes, etc. We aren't some kids getting fooled by hype or some sh!t.

Hell if anything, some of us are probably LESS likely to like something popular.

We just genuinely love Kendrick's music. And people from all walks do. This isn't some fluke.

Also, a reminder, this board was down with him at least since OD, so it isn't like we all jumped on the hype train.


Either way, at some point you can't debate subjective taste. You don't feel Kendrick like we do? Cool.

As far as this run he's on, its up there IMO. A lot of us feel that way. *shrugs*







2989122, RE: honestly, though? It is strange how worked up you seem over K.dot
Posted by spidey, Mon Apr-24-17 11:36 AM
What's more "strange", is how you trying to be on some nice guy shit, when your typical M/O is disrespect...smile, we like Kendrick.
2989147, RE: honestly, though? It is strange how worked up you seem over K.dot
Posted by Stadiq, Mon Apr-24-17 02:24 PM

Frankly, I'm just glad you said the word and not "ish"... Don't censor for me.


I can definitely be "disrespectful" sometimes and I took it too far with you a few times...I apologize.

For real- my bad.

BUT


You can't be the hip purity police...sh!tting on dudes from the West...sh!tting on dudes from the South...claiming media conspiracy when someone you don't dig gets love...etc...

....then turnaround and big up Bronson and Droog...

and expect not to get called on it.

If you are going to be a purist with high (imo narrow) standards, then you definitely can't cosign biting. Especially from culture vultures.

But, as I said, I took it too far a couple times and I apologize.



2989203, Oddisee is on J Cole status of dull/boring rapper but with good intentions
Posted by 81 DUN, Mon Apr-24-17 08:17 PM
I really wanna like both of them but when you have then on your plate you try to add salt and it still don't work (shrugs). Go ahead and throw your insult towards me, I'm just being real wit it.
2989206, I can rock with that
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 08:38 PM
I feel that way about Cole but not Oddisee.

His shit is always way more interesting musically to me than someone like Cole.
2989034, UNCLE BRAD AND YOU PUCK THE 4
Posted by Garhart Poppwell, Sun Apr-23-17 01:58 PM
Keep in mind we're talking over a 3o year period, across different eras, and 3 different decades.
2989110, He's talking about a four album run
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-24-17 10:32 AM
Otherwise this thread would be much different
2989319, I know what he said, and again pick the 4 album run
Posted by Garhart Poppwell, Wed Apr-26-17 05:55 AM
2989051, Only Outkast
Posted by CondoM, Sun Apr-23-17 07:58 PM
There's other artists with great 4 albums runs, most of which have already been mentioned. Tribe, De La, Face, PE, etc. But none of them are better than Kendricks run in my opinion.

Nas, I'm maybe the only person who likes I Am more than IWW, but Nastradamus is garbage and Illmatic is the only real classic (again, I know everybody else rates IWW).

Ghost, Bulletproof Wallets is bullshit. Even the bootleg version wouldn't stack up.

Oddissee, doesn't fit the parameters of the OP (true great), also he's not outstanding at anything. When his albums drop, they might get a spin or two and then I forget about him. He's not memorable enough. If we are just naming any artists rather than sticking to the greats, then Cunninlynguists would have a better claim than him, even if they were still quite raw on Southernunderground.
2989074, Let's see...
Posted by mrhood75, Mon Apr-24-17 01:43 AM
KRS/Boogie Down
Eric B. & Rakim
EPMD
Public Enemy
Redman
The Roots
De La Soul
Scarface
Ghostface
Outkast
LL Cool J

Plus I'd say a few other groups/artists that people on here don't like as much, but who's album I personally prefer to Kendrick's.
2989095, can't believe that's only the second mention of Redman
Posted by bshelly, Mon Apr-24-17 07:42 AM
i was mad i left him out of mine.
2989096, RE: can't believe that's only the second mention of Redman
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Apr-24-17 07:46 AM
A lot of people seem to not care for Doc's the name. I thought it was dope.
2989097, Not mad at that list at all
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Apr-24-17 07:48 AM
>KRS/Boogie Down
>Eric B. & Rakim
>EPMD
>Public Enemy
>Redman
>The Roots
>De La Soul
>Scarface
>Ghostface
>Outkast
>LL Cool J
>
>Plus I'd say a few other groups/artists that people on here
>don't like as much, but who's album I personally prefer to
>Kendrick's.

A few I don't agree with but dope list.
2989189, def KRS and Redman
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:25 PM
.
2989093, Public Enemy.
Posted by Shogun, Mon Apr-24-17 07:12 AM
Yo! Bumrush The Show
...Nation of Millions...
Fear of a Black Planet
Apocalypse '91


2989108, You don't even need to leave the west to find that guy.
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-24-17 10:19 AM
Game's first four is pretty damn good. First let’s dispense with the obvious straw man people will run for: I’m not saying Game is the MC Kendrick is. K Dot is an inarguably better MC in my book.

If I need to pick a four album stretch of an artist to listen to I’d take Game’s first four over K Dot’s without question. The fact that Game’s albums are all bloated late 90’s style affairs actually works to his favor for me because I can trim each album down to the joints I like and still have 10-12 tracks on each, though LAX might have to be pared down to 9 or so.

That doesn’t make him a better pure spitter, but I find that I ultimately like more of his songs on a greater level than Kendrick’s, and that’s with the constant name dropping and a-b-c schemes and flow. While we’re at it I’d listen to the first 5 joints off RED before I’d listen to any of Kendrick’s solo work and I’d rather listen to Kendrick’s hook on Angels than most of his own joints.

For me, the song is the thing and that’s where Kendrick falls far, far short of a lot of MC’s for me.

I genuinely like Kendrick as an MC. As a pure spitter he's on level with anyone.

But there's nothing he's ever done that *I* was able to put on repeat. Not an album or a song.

Conversely, I still rock Blank Face LP all the damn time. All. The. Time. That joint is skip-free for me and every song on there is my favorite song while I'm listening to it.

To say Jay and Nas can't compete with a four album run is absurd IMO. Hell I'd put Nas's run from Stillmatic-God's Son-Lost Tapes-Streets Disciple against K Dot's run. I'll also take Com and Thought. And Pharoahe.

If we're doing groups it's even worse IMO because I'd take Kast, Tribe, Dilated, etc. The Roots have a run that shits on most catalogs.

I like Kendrick. I like his style and enjoy his albums but there's a generation gap for me when it comes to the aesthetic of much of his production choices and his songs overall don't connect with me on that level.
2989114, The Game and Dilated Peoples do not have a run on par with K Dot
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Apr-24-17 10:56 AM
Nas is my favorite emcee but nah. Stillmatic is overrated and as much as I rock with Street's Disciple, disc 2 is brutal.
2989126, Cool. There's not a single Kdot album I listen to from end to end
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-24-17 12:18 PM
I can name less than 5 songs I've ever enjoyed enough to put on repeat and one isn't even on an album.

I don't know what metrics the OP wants but I know *I* view Kendrick as a fire spitter with a catalog of songs I like but rarely find myself in love with.

I can listen to Dilated and Game's first four with minimal skipping and at least two from each I can burn from start to finish.

I've had Blank Face on repeat since the moment it dropped. I can't do that with a single K dot album. He doesn't have the songs to me.
2989153, I'm here to both agree and take my L
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 03:23 PM
Well, I don't know if it's a complete L because of a technicality but the Blank Face album is dope as fuck. I do think my point was that in general it won't be seen as a classic because it will come and go in the grand scheme of things which it pretty much did. With that said, I do love that album. I think you compared it to Game Theory which I still don't agree with. I see it more like Hell Hath No Fury. A dope ass R rated flick with a cohesive sound.

On the Kendrick note, I agree that he doesn't have songs that I love. I don't go to his albums and say "I need to hear this joint" and imo that's where I give him credit for creating complete albums. However, like you, I just don't find his songs that great. He's a great MC and I love how he creates his product and projects his content, but if I honest, it's still whatever as a whole outside of TPAB.

I get what you're saying with the Guru point as well. I think Guru is dope but I fully get the comparison in that sense.

I also find it funny that everyone says that Nas is their favorite and then turns around and says that he only has one ore two great albums. Kind of a strange statement.

Ive been rocking I Am in light of this post and I know you're someone that likes that album as well. I actually don't even get the hate.

It's the cool thing to say the production was wack just like it's cool to dick ride Kendrick I guess.
2989156, opinions can be funny
Posted by Kosa12, Mon Apr-24-17 03:39 PM
>I also find it funny that everyone says that Nas is their
>favorite and then turns around and says that he only has one
>ore two great albums. Kind of a strange statement.

This post is about a 4 album run

Illmatic is probably the best hip hop album ever. It Was Written is amazing. Then I Am/Nastradamus happened. Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, Gods Son - all great, but then Streets Disciple happened (should've been 1 disc) and Hip Hop is dead, which was just ok. I enjoyed untitled - though I think it's not on the level of Stillmatic - God's Son, however Life Is Good is great as well (probably deserved more praise when it came out tbh). I also really enjoyed Distant Relatives. Nas is my favorite rapper ever but he has at least one dud or very underwhelming album every 4 releases IMO.
2989161, Distant Relatives is so under-appreciated to me
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 04:09 PM
I love that album.

Illmatic
IWW
Lost Tapes
Distant Relatives

Not sure what lands at 5 right now.
2989273, Welcome! Not to rehash that whole mess too much, but to be clear..
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-25-17 10:30 AM
>I think you compared it to Game Theory which I still don't agree with.

The comparison was the dank, dark tone of much of the production. If you listen to GT and then BF back to back, you’ll see certain tonal “colors” and sound choices that are common among the two albums.
“False Media” and “In The Music” are the joints in question, though to that point I suppose I should have been more specific regarding those tracks. People kept harping on the notion that I was comparing Album A to Album B but I was comparing “Creative Element of Album A that reminds me of Creative Element of Album B”.

Frankly everyone was too busy trying to shoot that down rather than trying to understand what *I* was hearing. I think one person took a listen based on what I was saying and got it.

>I also find it funny that everyone says that Nas is their favorite and then turns around and says that he >only has one more two great albums. Kind of a strange statement.

I think Nas is an artist that’s polarizing among his own fans. Personally I have an issue with his general ability to craft complete albums without serious head scratching moments. HHID has some beautiful highs and with some ridiculously generic moments. This also digs into the heart of that Rawce post, since RR tends to have an impeccable ear for beats. Nas picks some dumb dope home runs but there’s far too many WTF? Selections in his catalog. Like, WAY too many for an MC of his caliber and stature.

As you said, I enjoy I Am, but as I stated in that post I do get how many don’t. I can rock it from start to finish but, again, some of those tracks are rough and badly dated. *I* enjoy it but it makes sense to me why so many don’t.

Far as Kendrick, it’s mostly a disconnect with his production choices for me. I want more “Watch Out For Detox” in the mix. If DAMN were more HUMBLE and DNA than YAH and ELEMENT I’d be all over it. While he’s the anti-Guru to me in that I prefer the “presentation” of Guru and his work to Kendrick, Kendrick is still the superior MC next to most. I just don’t get enough of what I want from him.

That’s pretty much the same criteria people are using when they say Nas only has one or two great albums, because they enjoy Kendrick’s albums on the whole more consistently than they enjoy Nas albums on the whole. Unlike Rawce, where those of us who enjoy his work actively overlook his mediocre rhymes because the aesthetics are usually so great, we never have to overlook Kendrick’s content or skill level.
2989284, RE: Welcome! Not to rehash that whole mess too much, but to be clear..
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Apr-25-17 11:17 AM
I think you're dead on with False Media and In The Music but I think that's where the similarities stop.

Title Track, Don't Feel Right, Baby, Here I Come, along Time, Clock, and Can't Stop This all sound much different in vibe to me.

I can give you the others I didn't name though.

Interesting comparison. I still think it reminds me more of HHNF. Maybe not so much in sound but approach and content.
2989125, Ice Cube (who is also the GOAT).
Posted by PROMO, Mon Apr-24-17 12:01 PM
2989202, what are you counting for Cube?
Posted by bshelly, Mon Apr-24-17 08:13 PM
Because I can't count 2 EPs separately, but if you want to go

Straight Outta Compton
Amerikkka/Kill at Will
Death Certificate
The Predator

...yeah, that's the wrong list to fuck with.
2989285, u got it. BUT...
Posted by PROMO, Tue Apr-25-17 11:33 AM
even if you wanted to take off the NWA album I still think it's a fair comparison when people are putting Untitled, Unmastered in Kendrick's cannon (which would be equal to Kill At Will in my opinion in the sense that both are EPs - i'd rather listen to Kill At Will though) along with his 3 proper studio albums (i don't count Section.80).

but what's more crazy about Cube during that run is he was also writing classics for Eazy E, Del, etc as well as doing much of Da Lench Mob album and working on Kam's album. ALSO, you could throw in Lethal Injection if you wanna (i would) because although that album had some mis-steps for sure, 2/3 of it is really good. shit, Kendrick don't have one song as classic or good as "You Know How We Do It"

2989127, The more I think of it, Kendrick is the anti-Guru to me.
Posted by Cold Truth, Mon Apr-24-17 12:20 PM
Because I like Kendrick far more as an MC.

Meanwhile I'd rather listen to Gang Star's catalog than Kendrick's.
2989134, RE: The more I think of it, Kendrick is the anti-Guru to me.
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Apr-24-17 12:40 PM
Pretty sure you're a fan of Premier's sound so that makes sense.
2989270, Yep. I also think there's also a generation gap re: production
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-25-17 10:13 AM
I love the track for “DNA”. I hear that and I want to jump out my seat. but then I’m hit with “YAH” and I run straight for the ‘next’ button. ‘Element’ bores me to tears. The whole thing puts me to sleep until HUMBLE and that puts me in the same mood as DNA. Duckworth is dope.

To that end I suppose I overstated my position on him because those two joints are heaters that I’ve played consistently.

But there are just too many sleepy atmospheric moments for me, not to mention too much of the slowed down, speaking voice joints. It just doesn’t work for me aesthetically. My aesthetic base is mid-nineties NY, late 90’s Rawkus/Jay Dee, 2000-era Dre.

2989162, I would say, as a solo artist, he has the best run with Kanye, KRS
Posted by Nodima, Mon Apr-24-17 04:24 PM
For reference, my discography rankings:
https://rateyourmusic.com/list/Nodima/geek_down__nodimas_hip_hop_index/3/

Big KRIT and MF DOOM right behind him. Of these four, Kanye is the only one that's there primarily because of the total package, though that obviously has a lot to do with why all four of these runner ups' art is so good, their ability to manage the entire package.

Including CUuban Linx in Ghostface's discography puts him in the conversation, as does Pusha T with his Clipse albums.

Masta Ace had a stellar run, I really underrated Sittin' on Chrome looking over my lists (I didn't enjoy his debut as much as I should have, maybe, but Chrome -> Disposable Arts is wonderful).

I'm not a big fan of Follow the Leader or his solo stuff otherwise I'd figure Rakim an obvious suggestion.

Scarface is an interesting case being that I'm not as enamored with his solo stuff late-90s onward as others are, but taken as a whole his solo and Geto Boys run in the early 90s is insane.

That's my conversation, anyway. But I think Kendrick takes it, and I'm not even someone who thinks he puts the best album out every year: KRIT's Returnof4Eva took 2011 (Kendrick second), Killer Mike's RAP Music took 2012 (Kendrick second), Future's Beast Mode took 2015 (Kendrick second) and Migos' Culture is my runaway favorite so far this year (Kendrick third). Only untitled. unmastered. is an AotY for me from Kendrick and I'm not so up on 2016's hip-hop overall, seemed like a year with a lot of great but no excellent LPs.


But this is a conversation about consistency, and there are few artists as consistent as he is; like I said, I'll give old heads KRS and DOOM and I'll give new heads Kanye and KRIT, but that's the only strong competition.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
2989164, You have Future with the album of the year in 2015?
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 04:37 PM
2989166, That's his opinion
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Apr-24-17 04:58 PM
And DS2 was dope.
2989168, And it's my opinion that his opinion is wack as fuck
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 05:04 PM
What's your point?

Y'all tell me my opinion sucks all day on here bro. Not sure why everyone is so sensitive.

We're just having a discussion.
2989169, I should've mentioned Beast Mode in that production thread.
Posted by Nodima, Mon Apr-24-17 05:16 PM
that album is incredible.

I like Future a lot though. I think HNDRXX is a little better than DAMN. as well.

(To be clear, the difference between Beast Mode and TPAB for me is essentially a toss up - 0.04 points. Beast Mode undeniably benefits from its brevity, and TPAB was undeniably more *important*. But I would listen to Beast Mode before most albums, period, so there's that too. Zaytoven's work on that album is peerless.)

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
2989171, Doesn't matter which album you listed
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Apr-24-17 05:24 PM
He doesn't listen to that kind of music but I agree, Future was on a run late 2014 through 2015.
2989198, RE: I should've mentioned Beast Mode in that production thread.
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 08:04 PM
I get that you like it...cool.

But you honestly compare Future realistically to real shit?

What do you find so great?

The lyrics compare to TPAB?

The autotune?

Just say the shit is guilty pleasure.
2989200, yea, all of it. nothing guilty about it.
Posted by Nodima, Mon Apr-24-17 08:09 PM
and he sings as much as he raps so I'm not sure why anyone is ever so fixated on his 'bars'. he's not a 'bars' artist.

I couldn't post any single line from "Peacoat" or "Forever Eva" and expect them to translate the melancholy and soul searching that you feel in your gut from his best music.

it's an aesthetic thing; I'd compare what Future does lyrically to rock lyricists long before I compared him to most rappers other than those that try to bite his style. he's not in the competition you're putting him in.

I like Future plenty as an artist, but like I said it's Zaytoven's work on that album that puts it into all-time great territory for me. that music is incredible to me.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
2989205, RE: yea, all of it. nothing guilty about it.
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 08:28 PM
So what type of music do you listen outside of hip-hop and when did you start listening to it?

Who are some of your favorite artists?
2989207, I'm 28. my dad's Wish You Were Here and mom's Songs in the Key of Life
Posted by Nodima, Mon Apr-24-17 08:39 PM
were my first favorite albums. Marshall Mathers LP was the first album I ever asked for as a gift (other than the Mulan soundtrack), and when that was deemed too dangerous I asked for Linkin Park's Hybrid Theory instead because it "had guitars" (though I'd argue that album is far more volatile in the hands of a depressed teenager than an Eminem album, because at least Eminem had a sense of humor about the whole thing).


A quick list of favorite bands would be Destroyer, Radiohead, The Smiths, Modest Mouse, The Dismemberment Plan, Liars, Pavement, Scientist and Yo la Tengo. All of this is readily available in my signature with a couple clicks, but because I've always found drawing a line in the sand in hip-hop conversations absurd and that's the whole point of my lists project to begin with, the full Top 25 discographies in hip-hop (including producers) from the list I linked at the top of my OP is:

1. The Roots
2. OutKast
3. Madlib
4. RZA
5. Kanye West
6. KRS One
7. MF DOOM
8. Curren$y
9. Big Boi
10. Kendrick Lamar
11. A Tribe Called Quest
12. Q-Tip
13. DJ Premier
14. J Dilla
15. Big K.R.I.T.
16. Freddie Gibbs
17. El-P
18. The Notorious B.I.G.
19. Ghostface Killah
20. Prince Paul
21. Dr. Dre
22. Pusha T
23. Juicy J
24. Organized Konfusion
25. Public Enemy


So, as I said, Kanye, KRS, DOOM, KRIT have four album runs that can compete with Kendrick's. Future's not in this conversation, though he's had a very strong three years most of his stuff is simply very good, not great. I forgot about Ice Cube, his post-Lethal Injection output made him drop past my Top 25 but he is definitely competition for that title and probably my actual favorite for the crown of best four album run.

Future is not a guilty pleasure for me though (if you're curious, his discography sits at 35 on that list).


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
2989213, I just found this whole exchange hilarious
Posted by Kosa12, Mon Apr-24-17 09:18 PM
because Nodima, due to how extensive his hip hop handbook is (and how good his reviews are), is probably one of the posters in this board LEAST LIKELY not to have a detailed, thorough explanation on why or why not he likes something lmao. Regardless of if you agree, you gotta respect that.
2989214, I knew he would that's why I was legit asking...
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 09:26 PM
I find that many hip-hop fans that like when MCs "sing" and do different shit usually don't listen to the much music outside of hip-hop and therefore lack a frame of reference for it.

I didn't know if No listened to a bunch of other shit because he usually post about hip-hop when I notice him.
2989219, RE: I knew he would that's why I was legit asking...
Posted by Nodima, Mon Apr-24-17 10:20 PM
I think if you look over that list of bands, one of the things that stands out first is that Morrissey is probably the only traditionally talented vocalist of the bunch. I love a great vocalist as much as the next guy but most of my favorite singers establish moods as much as they paint pictures or hold notes.

Future does a lot of that for me. Not to derail this thread further; like I said, Future's not in this conversation for me, I just found it interesting look back at my own lists that every release of Kendrick's since Section.80 other than untitled. unmastered. has come in a tightly contested second place to another album. Back on topic, for me that's one of the best supporting arguments for his consistency over this time period. He's never made my absolute favorite thing, but it's always something I have to reckon with and want to sit with for a long time.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
2989170, Who is y'all?
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Mon Apr-24-17 05:16 PM
I haven't said one time that your opinion sucks. All I asked was when has Oddisee been mentioned in the GOAT discussion.
2989197, RE: Who is y'all?
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 08:02 PM
Im speaking in general.

People talk shit about my opinion as well.

No need to cape for this dude because I questioned his pick.
2989190, but your opinion can't be wack as fuck?
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 06:31 PM
have some god damn self-awareness

but yes, Future been releasing heat for 3 years, none would make my best of the year, but def top 10s:
56 Nights
Monster
Purple Reign
EVOL
are good ass albums

Beast Mode and DS2 got heat on 'em

Future and HNDRXX's best tracks are some of the best of the year

cry? or nah
2989195, People who are wack as fuck think my opinions are wack as fuck
Posted by Anonymous, Mon Apr-24-17 07:49 PM
That would be you.

If you take Future serious as a rapper I don't trust your opinion on hip-hop period.

2989196, thats cute.
Posted by Nodima, Mon Apr-24-17 07:53 PM


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz
2989211, Ok
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 08:59 PM
.
2989176, Kast, The Roots, DOOM, Ghost, Common, Tribe, De La, thats it.
Posted by astralblak, Mon Apr-24-17 05:56 PM
.
2989240, Bro asked about "GOAT" and some of y'all in here naming...
Posted by Creole, Tue Apr-25-17 07:45 AM
mofos that ain't nobody heard of outside of these parts.

It's a ton of backpacker bammas that are lovely on the mic; however, they don't necessarily meet the criteria for "GOAT."

So, cut the shit!

2989241, Here's my take on it
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Apr-25-17 07:51 AM
I named people not in the GOAT discussion because I don't believe in the main qualifier to be in that discussion which is success/popularity.

I'm cool if the most popular is a GOAT contender but I don't subscribe to belief that MCs can't be considered if they're not popular.

Because in all honestly that's the bullshit we hate the Grammys for.

We don't fuck with the Grammys because the nominees, especially for hip-hop, are initially run through the "was this popular enough" test in order to be nominated.

That to me is bullshit because popularity in hip-hop usually is based on how many middle America white people copped your shit and I don't think that's a good qualifier at all.

And I think people lose sight of that when one of their favorites gets the attention. Then we want to break how record sales and shit but we don't do that when Hammer is going diamond.
2989243, Com, Cube, Rakim, and KRS are the only cats who may fit...
Posted by Creole, Tue Apr-25-17 08:02 AM
the "GOAT" label besides K. Dot with as strong a run.

Neither Com, Rakim, nor KRS were that popular compared to Cube in each of their respective heydays. However, their runs were phenomenal and still some the music I revisit the most.

It took Com years to become "popular". Dude wasn't even paid attention to by Black women until he did songs with Lauryn, Erykah, and MJB.

Aside from them, there is Future, Rozay, Tip, Beanie, The Game, and Kanye who have had strong 4 album (or more) runs but they aren't in the running, IMO, for GOAT. Rappers who were in groups don't count either as I assume the OP was referring to soloists. KRS was truly the only rapper on the BDP team's albums.

If not, then Ghost, Rae, 3 Stacks, Black Thought, Guru, Face, and Run have had 4 album runs that are undeniable as well. If we stopped at 3 albums, Redman would be the damned real and true GOAT. LOL

Edit: Nas and Jay have a few duds that interrupt their runs which, as mentioned above, usually go three albums at a time before a dud is dropped. They're still in the GOAT category though.

Edit *2: Sales and popularity are questionable because a few of my guys weren't "popular" until they'd been in the entertainment game for a long while. I get what you're saying though. Just wanted to see if we could have gotten responses that spoke to the original post's hankering for "GOAT" runs.

2989253, RE: Com, Cube, Rakim, and KRS are the only cats who may fit...
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Apr-25-17 08:57 AM
>the "GOAT" label besides K. Dot with as strong a run.
>
>Neither Com, Rakim, nor KRS were that popular compared to Cube
>in each of their respective heydays. However, their runs were
>phenomenal and still some the music I revisit the most.
>

Rakim and KRS came up at a different time. They were always popular for their heyday and were seen as the best period. Common, by these measures isn't even a GOAT contender.

>It took Com years to become "popular". Dude wasn't even paid
>attention to by Black women until he did songs with Lauryn,
>Erykah, and MJB.
>

I wouldn't even say Common is that popular. He's maintained his based and picked up new fans slowly which his acting and personality has aided.

>Aside from them, there is Future, Rozay, Tip, Beanie, The
>Game, and Kanye who have had strong 4 album (or more) runs but
>they aren't in the running, IMO, for GOAT. Rappers who were in
>groups don't count either as I assume the OP was referring to
>soloists. KRS was truly the only rapper on the BDP team's
>albums.
>
>If not, then Ghost, Rae, 3 Stacks, Black Thought, Guru, Face,
>and Run have had 4 album runs that are undeniable as well. If
>we stopped at 3 albums, Redman would be the damned real and
>true GOAT. LOL
>

What albums are you giving Rae? Wu-Tang albums? I would be more comfortable counting some like Andre before Rae in a group setting because the Wu has so many members they don't even all appear in every song. Face should be counted on his solo material anyway. Guru should count since he's the only MC in the group.

>Edit: Nas and Jay have a few duds that interrupt their runs
>which, as mentioned above, usually go three albums at a time
>before a dud is dropped. They're still in the GOAT category
>though.
>
>Edit *2: Sales and popularity are questionable because a few
>of my guys weren't "popular" until they'd been in the
>entertainment game for a long while. I get what you're saying
>though. Just wanted to see if we could have gotten responses
>that spoke to the original post's hankering for "GOAT" runs.
>

I get it. I still just don't believe every one of Kendrick's albums are bulletproof classics like people are claiming. I'm not saying he has duds but he doesn't have 5 mic classics every time either. You could put Jay's first 4 up against K Dot and I don't even rock with Vol 2 or 3 like that. But if I'm going to fault Jay for coming with average to good albums I have to do the same for Kendrick. He has some good albums...not each is great to me.
2989269, Not to run a sidebar but where were Ra and KRS popular?
Posted by Creole, Tue Apr-25-17 10:09 AM
>Rakim and KRS came up at a different time. They were always popular for their heyday and were seen as the best period. Common, by these measures isn't even a GOAT contender

If you're talking within the hip hop circles and aside from going "pop", then I'd agree.

However, they weren't popular or "pop" like Tone Loc, Hammer, Sir Mix-a-lot, Fresh Prince, and Run DMC had more or less become in '88/'89.
2989277, RE: Not to run a sidebar but where were Ra and KRS popular?
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Apr-25-17 10:54 AM
I just don't think you can judge their popularity the same.

Hip-Hop wasn't mainstream yet. Yes, there were a few like the ones you mentioned but it was still and very young genre.

And yes, I meant that they were popular in hip-hop circles.
2989265, Nice breakdown. I chose to ignore the GOAT aspect, personally
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-25-17 09:51 AM
I ignored that caveat because a topic like this is a little disingenuous when you introduce such a tight set of parameters. You always have a good chance of winning a debate when you get to control the parameters and set them up in a way that makes it difficult to argue. If you’re in court that’s great, but it makes for a dishonest discussion when we’re talking art.

In fact, given that the implied purpose is to showcase how impressive Kendrick’s run is, it’s arguably a detriment to frame it that way.
A more honest discussion acknowledges that there are a nice handful of artists with similarly strong runs in terms of quality and that’s what helps place Kendrick’s run in a more honest context. It also places everyone else in a more honest context.

When an artist the caliber of Jay or Nas maintains their lofty stature in spite of their missteps or, at a minimum, questionable creative decisions, it’s largely due to a connection with fans that was established through a high level of quality. At some point they become relatively Teflon because their highs were so high and plentiful that the lows are easily ignored. Further, these artists have been around for decades and some have released more than twice as many albums as Kendrick, meaning Kendrick cannot be measured in the same way even if this run is remarkable.

Between that and the subjectivity factor it’s a little disingenuous to limit the topic to GOAT level artists. If the topic were “let’s examine Kendrick’s first four albums to the first four of other rappers”, there would be consistency of context. Adding artificial parameters heavily skews the discussion in the desired direction of the poster as opposed to generating thoughtful and engaging discussion.
2989272, True to almost all of that. Time hasn't afforded me the...
Posted by Creole, Tue Apr-25-17 10:19 AM
opportunity to catch some of the 'obscure' artists that are always championed here. So, I look to stick with those who are universally hailed in the world of hip hop - pop, backpacker, etc.

So skewing it towards the universally hailed or the arguable artists found on more than some lists for GOAT is the lane I typically look to drive in.

Crazily and as I look to craft my response, it has dawned on me that we have been blessed with some of the greatest music the world will have ever been privy to. It makes me think about how much I love rap music. It's been with me since '79/'80. I'm 45 years old and have listened to tons of it along the way.

There are artists who have resonated with me in a way that is sort of inexplicable.

Thought lost... LOL
2989276, Nothing disingenuous about my post
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Tue Apr-25-17 10:38 AM
This is about cats who have a claim at Mount Rushmore status in hip hop. Kendrick is working his way into that dicussion.
2989282, Cool. I disagree.
Posted by Cold Truth, Tue Apr-25-17 11:13 AM
>This is about cats who have a claim at Mount Rushmore status
>in hip hop. Kendrick is working his way into that dicussion.
2989245, It's not even about popularity
Posted by Nick Has a Problem...Seriously, Tue Apr-25-17 08:19 AM
You have to have some sort of influence on other people in the art form. Take Kool G Rap for instance, no gold or platinum plaques but hella rappers will mention him as an influence. Dude pioneered NYC crime rap. And we don't fuck with the Grammys because old white people that don't know shit about hip hop run it.
2989254, Exactly my point
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Apr-25-17 09:00 AM
>You have to have some sort of influence on other people in
>the art form. Take Kool G Rap for instance, no gold or
>platinum plaques but hella rappers will mention him as an
>influence. Dude pioneered NYC crime rap. And we don't fuck
>with the Grammys because old white people that don't know shit
>about hip hop run it.

G Rap is ALWAYS left out. It's always Rakim, KRS, BDK, Slick Rick and Chuck D.

G Rap doesn't get GOAT mentions despite being heavily influential.

And yes, we don't fuck with Grammys because old white people vote and I don't fuck with record sales because young white people buy.

You can't hang your hat on little Timmy and Jenny from Idaho purchasing your album.

That doesn't hold weight with me.
2989268, In-f'in-deed!
Posted by Creole, Tue Apr-25-17 10:05 AM
>You can't hang your hat on little Timmy and Jenny from Idaho purchasing your album.

>That doesn't hold weight with me.

2989279, It strikes me people AREN'T naming backpack artists actually
Posted by amplifya7, Tue Apr-25-17 11:00 AM
Oddisee is the only non-mainstream/hip hop 'canon' artist I see mentioned more than once
2989283, Could you name El-P?
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Apr-25-17 11:13 AM
From Fantastic Damage to ISWYD to C4C to 3 RTJ albums?
2989287, I'll say that El-P's discography
Posted by Kosa12, Tue Apr-25-17 12:21 PM
which has no duds whatsoever, including the albums he has produced in full (CanOx, RAP Music) is one of my favorites of hip hop. He's legendary status for me and unlike most people, I even really dig his kind of unorthodox style of rapping (from co-flow to now, I dig all of it, but before you ask me, I do think Kendrick is a better rapper though the comparison means little to me as I'm a huge fan of both). Everything he has had a huge hand in IMO has been great or amazing. I like his recent run of work (ISWYD-RTJ2) or go (C4C-RTJ3) just as much as I like Kendrick's overall despite TPAB being my favorite album of the bunch. I mentioned Tribe/Kast/De La and forgot to mention El' smh
2989255, entitled white men should stop discussing Kendrick Lamar
Posted by atruhead, Tue Apr-25-17 09:05 AM
entitled white men should stop discussing Hip Hop in general

but Kendrick makes yall irrational. he's the best thing to come out of the mainstream post-Kanye's meltdown, his run is impeccable and yet it's mostly white men rushing to discredit him (probably because he made a pro-black album in 2015 and he's not an idiot)

I didnt say stop listening to Hip-Hop, I didnt say you dont belong participating in "the culture", my exact point is your vocalized opinions on black art are unnecessary/annoying and they reek of white privilege, so maybe keep it to yourself
2989267, Anonymous is the only one discrediting him that I see in ~180 replies
Posted by amplifya7, Tue Apr-25-17 10:01 AM
2989281, He's obviously talking about me
Posted by Anonymous, Tue Apr-25-17 11:12 AM
I wouldn't say I'm discrediting him, I'm just being honest with the album he put out and trying to cool the hyperbole a little.

I think it's a positive that he is in he mainstream. He's the best by far to take that spot. But with that said, I'm going to be honest if he gives us some Drake shit.
2989420, Ice cube,outkast,scarface,public enemy,DJ quik
Posted by mistermaxxx08, Thu Apr-27-17 01:23 PM
Run dmc,Ice t,Too Short,Heavy d and the boyz,LL Cool J,