This email is prompted by stumbling on a best of Mos Def mix.

Don't even bother trying to argue with me that Mighty Mos didn't fall off, this is a personal taste post and there was a moment Mos was my favorite MC and it seemed like dude lost everything that I use to dig about him. When he hooked up with Kanye on Two Words I thought he would take over the world.

He might be making good music for other people, it just doesn't do it for me like his old stuff use to.



**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

It's not terrible but his disjointed flow was hard to get behind.
Maybe Del on some of his stuff from the last decade. Just elementary stuff from such an innovator.

He's fallen off in a major way. Wasn't he taking music theory or some shit? I'm like dude stop taking whatever music studies you're doing and bring my dude back.

I liked his verses on the second Deltron 3030. And there's other stuff I'm forgetting, like Hiero-related guest verses. But I will admit he had a run of what seemed like rushed and ultimately subpar albums.

>He's fallen off in a major way. Wasn't he taking music theory
>or some shit? I'm like dude stop taking whatever music studies
>you're doing and bring my dude back.

On the real, he'd been in to that music theory steez even in the early '00s when he was putting out "Both Sides of the Brain." I think it was other stuff that sidetracked him.

If you can, please reply with the other good material of his that you're referring to. Del was one of my favorites, so if he has good to great material that comes close to his material when he was in his prime, I'd love to hear it.

Think that was 2000

>Think that was 2000


I've mentioned this album in another response to this thread, but check out an album titled Attractive Sin. It's a full on album he did with a group named Parallel Thought; the also did work with them when he teamed with Tame-One for the Parallel Thoughts album, which isn't as good as the Attractive Sin album in my opinion. There's about two or three songs with Del just blacking out with him rhyming straight with no choruses or minimal breaks if memory serves me right and his off the wall flow from his top level days are on this album as well. I almost sound as if I'm street teaming for the record the way I'm recommending it.

But getting back to being dissapointed with Del as of late, I think I officially buried my head in the sand when that horrible Eleventh Hour album dropped. I had huge hopes for that being stellar material since El-P was at the helm for Definitive Jux and that track Del and El-P did for Both Sides of The Brain Offsprings was top notch. Boy was that album utter crap.

... "Both Sides of the Brain" the day it came out, and then I went back to the store the next day and returned it. I was like... "I never do this, you know me. I buy everything. I want my money back for this joint. It's too terrible."

They let me return it, and when I skimmed Deltron3030 when it dropped, I had no problem passing on it.

Sucks when that happens with artists that you were once a big fan of, but hey... it happens.

check that out if you want to hear a fairly recent album from Del.

strap you down and slap you around
call you Susan, use and abusin

used to laugh at that line, the crew and I turned it into an inside joke. But yeah that flow was on some other shit. He was trying to adjust to the times.

>Maybe Del on some of his stuff from the last decade. Just
>elementary stuff from such an innovator.

It's a crying shame how subpar his flow is on most of his releases post-Gorillaz. I dunno the reason, but it feels as if he's experimenting with the music theory stuff that others have mentioned when he rhymes; problem is that it's been about 10 years now if my math is right since he started with his music theory method for making beats.

The only somewhat recent release I can say I liked from Del is an album he did with a group named Parallel Thought called Attractive Sin. A good number of the tracks feature some of the of the wall flows from Del in his prime.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

dude pretty much had it all...brooklyn pedigree, jamaican/dancehall flavor mixed into his flow, love from the niggas and the broads, and true skill and talent. not sure why he never even attempted to come back after his 2nd album. he coulda smashed with a 3rd album and never looked back. him and mos immediately come to mind in these discussions



>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

.....he dropped "Legal" in 1990 ..then NOTHING for over 4 years ...then he showed up with a classic appearance on the Crooklyn Dodgers 12" ..at this point, he's poised for a comeback. Then he drops revelations which was a DUD, but had Buckwild and Primo remixes that were dope ...yeah maybe you could say he fell off lol

>It's not terrible but his disjointed flow was hard to get
>behind.

"Still Got It Made" brought a smile to my face. Like "yeah... dude still got it"

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

Man, that's my favorite LP of his.

I rocked that album heavy when it dropped, still go back to it
It probably is my favorite album of his overall also



>Man, that's my favorite LP of his.

I still play it from time to time. Walk the Walk, Crazy, Freaky Flow... I never understood the dislike the album got

Neva go Back, Lyrics, Rough til the End, Only Gettin Worse, the one joint with E40, the joint with Nine...them are just off the top of my head. Album was good as hell.

>This email is prompted by stumbling on a best of Mos Def mix.
>
>
>Don't even bother trying to argue with me that Mighty Mos
>didn't fall off, this is a personal taste post and there was a
>moment Mos was my favorite MC and it seemed like dude lost
>everything that I use to dig about him. When he hooked up with
>Kanye on Two Words I thought he would take over the world.
>
>He might be making good music for other people, it just
>doesn't do it for me like his old stuff use to.

I echo the above. I try to force myself to like what he's doing but it just doesn't stick with me at all.

"World Party" has weak. Maybe 2-3 songs that were worth anything but we put that on Goodie as a group.

To be honest, I wasn't that big on either of his solo projects. I know that the general consensus was that he killed it but I didn't care for them.

I also wasn't big on the 1st Gnarls Barkley album. "Crazy" was alright but nothing else grabbed me.

Then he dropped "Fuck You" which I thought was an incredibly corny song. IMO, this is where he absolutely lost me. Even when I wasn't feeling his stuff before this, I could somewhat understand the appeal to some other folks.

We saw Lionel Richie recently and Cee-lo opened for him. It was basically a lounge act with him singing old soul & R&B covers. Horrible.

> We saw Lionel Richie recently and Cee-lo opened for him. It
>was basically a lounge act with him singing old soul & R&B
>covers. Horrible.

Soul Food Cee-lo was one of the greatest of all time. Just so much
raw talent busting at the seams widdit. Was crazy!

I like it better than any of his solo work.

Early Cee-Lo spit some of the dopest rhymes EVER. He's good forever with me.

Better than any of his albums IMO.

But as much as I liked him he wasn't top 20 to me.

But this dude these days is a buffoon.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

>But as much as I liked him he wasn't top 20 to me.
>
>But this dude these days is a buffoon.

But "Soul Food" and "Still Standing" are 2 of the best albums of all time, IMO. And he was an integral part of those, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and tried to check for his solo stuff.

You're right though...he's a clown these days. I wasn't even able to make it all the way thru that last Goodie Mob album.

That he and Goodie played the role of conscious and always had a sense of positivity.

Cee-Lo started with Git Up Git Out and continued that persona probably through Common's A Song For...

Shit, on Common's G.O.D., he gave us one of the most down to earth real perspectives and somehow didn't come of preachy.

And then he jumped to this solo/Hollywood career and his persona just didn't line up with what I felt I was led to believe.

It's was like "this is the same dude making all those conscious records back in the day?"

I remember seeing him on My Sweet 16 and his wife presented herself in the same light of being spiritual and conscious and then in the show, her and the daughter were so materialistic it was odd to me. And that's not to say you can't be both and they have every right to enjoy their hard-earned money, but something just didn't mesh to me.

And many of my assumptions are my own fault for judging them with the little I knew but I just felt like he came up preaching one thing and then was living another. Like the conscious persona was just a gimmick.

Not sure if anyone else felt like that.

obviously there's a cultural bias with me. Slim Shady LP was one of the first albums I owned that wasn't borrowed from my parents, it was a rapping white guy that wasn't corny (although certain aspects of his music have become corny and/or dated over time) and he was FUNNY. as angsty as his music was it was funny as hell. His (and Dre's) ad libs were wild and they paired him up with perfectly minimal music that didn't force him to feel like he had to roar to be heard.


what happened to him with Encore was a travesty to me, and I thought Relapse might be a sign he'd be at least serviceable going forward but I almost universally hate everything he's touched this decade. just a garbage artist hiding behind a skill with words saying some of the dweebiest shit imaginable atop dumpster fire music.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." � Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

^^^^ truth

just a garbage artist hiding behind a
>skill with words saying some of the dweebiest shit imaginable
>atop dumpster fire music.


this is exactly how i feel about Em's music for the past decade

Felt
Like it was aimed at teenage white kids. He was the same as the bloodhound gang to me.

. . .I thought the dude was a total gimmick hack from day one, and voiced that thought on many a message board. Subsequently, caught hell for it.

Still pretty fucking awful music in retrospect.

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

TRUTH...dude has some nice tracks, and is obviously talented, but to use his talents in the manner that he did/does, corny....

After Iron Man, that was it...his production was subpar at best after that...Extremely disappointing....Never gave Deck his due...then he just became cocky his production was shit...

....if I see that he's produced something, I'm not even intrigued enough to check it out. I still wanna act as if Wu's "A Better Tomorrow" had never happened.


Since 1976

since the dude is so innovative, influential, and isn't a dummy either. Have to wonder what led to him falling off so hard. I'm not necessarily the biggest fan of him per say because I can't excuse his horrible rhyming, but he's easily one of the greats as a producer.

once you do that, it's pretty much over because nothing you do is held to the personal scrutiny it should be.

It was like one second Cuban Linx, then the next second Bobby Digital.
And he was never the same after that.

Luckily, Ghost is one of the few great rappers who can pick beats and
still prospered with other production after RZA's fall off.

...hurts to see the best guy out there a few years in a row, just completely fall the fuck off with the beats

and that changed his sound too much. He used to work with grimey kung-fu soundtrack samples and shit, as was limited with the hardware he was using which created an original sound/style and expertise that was also connected to the culture he built his aesthetic on. When he could work with more instrumentation, his limitations in those other realms become more glaring.

Like a rapper who wants to sing but really is just an average/okay singer but a great rapper. He left his lane and never went back. The only person that has heard him return to that form is martin shkreli lol

i loved Bobby D as well

after the W it was a wrap, 'cause from 97-01 he was hit or miss

but he did give Ye fire

...what did he give Kanye?...I forgot...

.

those were good...I just wish he'd make a dope Wu album again...all those dudes have been making pretty good stuff on their own but when they get back together under RZA's direction its soooo bad

>After Iron Man, that was it...his production was subpar at
>best after that...Extremely disappointing....Never gave Deck
>his due...then he just became cocky his production was
>shit...

I love Bobby Digital more now than I did when it originally happened.

White dress and the Kanye stuff in general have me hope. Wasn't he in on Cuban Linz 2 too?

There's no way to argue that he dropped from 100% on tho,

First comeback: Cool enough. One solid album and one "eh" album.

Everything after that has been trash. Truthfully, the last group or solo project I really even sorta felt from either was the Erick Onasiss album.

called the main event.
its ill as fuck, but was a one off created in Amsterdam for a special project. it was released on very limited vinyl only i think:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMlBuVRRIq0

Been hoping for another EPMD album but 8 years later still nothing.

---------------------------

"Where was the peace when we were getting shot? Where's the peace when we were getting laid out?
Where is the peace when we are in the back of ambulances? Where is the peace then?
They don't want to call for peace then.

>called the main event.
>its ill as fuck, but was a one off created in Amsterdam for a
>special project. it was released on very limited vinyl only i
>think:
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMlBuVRRIq0

Mehn, that track is fire. Keith's verse was kind of all over the place and unneeded, but, everyone else was on point, especially the producer. The scratches were nice as hell too.

But, yeah, most of the EPMD and EPMD related stuff I've heard recently has been atrocious. If you ever want to test your tolerance for wackness, go listen to that Undergods album by Keith and Canibus with a few beats on there by E. Never seen two emcees that were once great fall so hard. Oh, and while you're at it, throw E's ESP on top for dessert.

but the problem is that they aren't on the same page seemingly. Both still have the goods.

First album, and pre-album stuff and off-cuts, was FIRE. Second one really captured London, perhaps a bit too smooth and polished and some of the cross-genre experiments didn't pan out but others really did. Third one - at this point definitely too polished and glossy-sounding, but still some absolute gems.

They always sounded to me like they should have been the biggest band in the world.

I just feel like its the classic case of an artist having years and the urgency to write their first album, and then not knowing how to draw from that same well after they blew up.

Id almost put Arctic Monkey's in this category as far as bands who were on the cusp even though I wasn't a huge fan of them at the time. They were able to avoid that slump in their sound that was starting to show in album two by switching up their sound into a sleazier Americana type band with Queens of the Stone age producing their next few records...while Bloc Party kept on doing rock band slump avoiding cliche's to weakening effect (we will use more synths! lets go a little heavier!) as opposed to honing their songs.

After Silent Alarm I seriously thought they were about to become one of the biggest bands in the world. It was that good. It's still one of my favorite albums...although when I admit that I almost feel embarrassed because their most recent work has been so bad. Weekend in the City was also excellent. Then they fell the fuck off and totally lost their way.

Lightning in a bottle, I guess...

I really liked 18th Letter. The Master tho, I listened thru once, maybe twice and had no desire to listen again. That last album he released, I checked out a couple songs and passed. He's still in my top 3 all time tho.

what really messes it up are some weak beats. but i'd say 1/2 of the songs, or at least 1/3 are still dope. Waiting for the World to End is still my shit.

When he did that Gap commercial I knew it was over. He'd done some corny shit before, but that's when he reached the tipping point on corniness and couldn't make it back

That's mine....duke at one point was untouchable, and was in the conversation for GOAT status...then came lines about Ben and J. Lo, and the fall was fast from there.....a close second, LL Cool J, once this brother did the country song, with a line about forgiving the chains, I could never look at dude the same again....

Now that his money is good and he getting them consistent acting roles, he can go back to doing dope shit. You don't have to worry about pop culture when them roles coming in.

fuck.

form.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Still has some corny moments here and there (Sweet, namely) but by and large The Dreamer... and Nobody Smiling were really solid late-career releases and were a return to form in many ways. Dude can still rhyme

But I agree with spidey in saying that the pop culture BS on Finding Forever was super cringe-worthy, and UMC should have never happened.

>But I agree with spidey in saying that the pop culture BS on
>Finding Forever was super cringe-worthy, and UMC should have
>never happened.

M'man name checked "Ryan and Reese", for godsakes.



_______________________________
gamblers and masturbators.

http://mixcloud.com/urkelmoedee

PSN: UrkelMoeDee

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

I forgot to mention those - but yea. "Six Ft. Over" and "Fly Ass Pisces" alone, in fact. Those two tracks are still steady in my rotation these days. Can probably credit No ID with Comm's "comeback" for lack of a better term.

Which reminds me how disappointed I am that they never dropped more unannounced gem EPs. Used to love being surprised by waking up to find they had a new one out. They were also supposed to package all four EPs they do have into a one time drop on Spotify. I remember reading an interview with No ID and/or Fauntleroy a couple years ago where they indicated they were going to be doing that.

still love common.

"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2016/269401

I liked audacious, hard-rapping Common. Conservative, friendly Common never worked for me.

I like "Electric Circus" a lot more than I like "Be". Both "Be" and "Finding Forever" had moments, but there was no turning back....

:(

if you disagree, you're wrong.

even XXL retracted the classic rating they gave it.

for the next album he did. They basically said they jumped the gun because of the Kanye hype and the fact that it didn't sound like weirdo music.

>for the next album he did. They basically said they jumped
>the gun because of the Kanye hype and the fact that it didn't
>sound like weirdo music.

He was for many years my favorite music maker, period. Be was the first indication that he was fallible, then it was crushing disappointment from then on.


"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2016/269401

FF was the first time he seemed fallible.

Ever.


"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2016/269401

.

"I wasn't sure if I was lost or running away again. . ."

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2016/269401

.

Yeah, he's a lot cornier than he used to be, but at least his music and lyrics aren't awful anymore

and the new album is sounding great so far

.

Actually, that ad was a sign of bigger things to come for him at the time. And I was excited to see him reach that level of exposure.

Common never fell off. Although the texture of his music did change and gave a bad taste in alot of folks mouths who grew up on cornbread common, it's understandable. But growth in an artist tends to do things that aren't palatable for their core audiences. So I respect common for taking chances in his career that carried him beyond being just a rapper.

.

If I did my "top 5" in terms of talent alone I would personally put him in my top 3-5, but the output doesn't match the talent, and that's a shame

that said, Black Star, BOBS and The Ecstatic are all dope records

Granted I agree with you because I feel he should be better as well but when I step and look at it, 3 dope records is more than some that we praise.

the first two are two of my favorite albums of all time, the third is a good album, but it seems like lots of people like it A LOT more than I do. Let's put it this way, I'd really like another top quality project from Mos, doesn't have to be BOBS or Black Star quality, but yeah....

>the first two are two of my favorite albums of all time, the
>third is a good album, but it seems like lots of people like
>it A LOT more than I do.

In terms of albums, Mos is complicated to assess for me. The highest highs of BS are some of the best verses and performances of his career. But as an album, it's actually kind of weak for me. Of 13 tracks, I basically listen to 6 tracks when I put on the album: Astronomy, Def and Re:Def, KOS, Respiration, and Thieves. (I think I have a Black Star redux playlist somewhere that is exactly that.) Sometimes Brown Skin Lady still makes it in. It's not that the rest is terrible, but it hasn't aged well for me.

Of the three, Ecstatic is the only one I play from start to finish almost any time I put it on. BOBS is close though: I only skip Do It Now (and not all the time) and Rock N Roll (every time) regularly. Both albums are classics in my book, but as a total statement and piece of art, Ecstatic actually feels a bit more coherent and tightly knit to me, and I really really admire its concision.

All that being said, I'm holding out hope for more greatness from Mos. It took him 10 years to meet BOBS's level w/the Ecstatic, so I'll give him at least another three before counting him out. But maybe that's just my optimism/hope talking --- between BOBS and Ecstatic, he at least dropped some material that reminded us of why we loved him, and regularly delivered ridiculously good features... that's been missing now for at least a few years from him.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

Ha, man, these are the only 3 albums that I have in my official "Mos is amazing" canon too.

--------------------------------
Drop knowledge, not names.

Color in Flight Network
Launching January 1st, 2018

he was so great and even newer stuff that I heard over the last couple years show he still got fire.

but man, after those first 2 albums, his career was over minus touring. looks like a job for was the last one I remember remotely enjoying.

I swear Kane hurt my soul back in the day. I actually still sat Taste of Chocolate is a dope album (or at least nowhere near as bad as many make it). All of Me and Keep Em On the Floor were pretty unforgivable though. Prince of Darkness was horrible, but I still held up hope. But biting Days EFX's style? Kane was dead to me after that.

I loved the ridiculous videos of him producing when he first came out. I still LOVE the video of him making "Sometimes" for Cassie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNiZ0xYnqbw
Seeing him on the grand piano for the bridge of that and "Addiction" was dope to me.

A few songs still hold up on the first two albums..."Valentine", "IRINA", "Zodiac".

Instead of going further down the route of presenting himself as a modern R&B songwriter/producer, he decided the best path for him was making extravagant music videos for uninspired swag music with his own rapping, and start a "Lifestyle" brand.

I thought he had it in him to make a front to back album of great melodic R&B without one-note synth beats and brag raps, either for himself or another artist, but seems like he has zero interest.

...to make an album about bragging about being rich in Paris.

When I hear Ryan Leslie, I always think of this video:
https://youtu.be/UvX7QXUrB4k

When Cal popped up out of Milwaukee and moved very respectable units of his single "My Projects" and his album "Disturbed," everybody in Milwaukee, Milwaukee County, and the greater Metro area thought there would be solid spill over of recognition to other MKE artists. We saw it happen to cities all around us (albeit some of those cities WERE part of the industry - Chicago, MPLS, Detroit). Get that one artist to blow and then the industry pays attention and a few more get major deals or a local label (like Infinite which had a lot of the top North Side MKE rappers) gets a distribution deal. Maaaaaaan did that not happen. Tommy Boy started it's well documented struggles, Cal had drug problems and caught a case, and things fizzled out as far as national attention goes. It broke a lot of beer-filled hearts who wanted to see some recognition come to the city and area we loved so much...mine included.

I couldn't get into that "My Projects" joint. It felt lackluster to me. I couldn't even foresee him putting Milwaukee on the map with that joint because it didn't even make me want to check out the rest of his material.



Since 1976

How do you...

Lose your voice

Lose your flow/flows

Lose your ear for beats

Lose your competitive drive as a Harlemite... you really let Fabolous just surpass you like that? I can't even make a case for Cam being better than Fab without looking stupid. And at least Jada is putting out serviceable music, Cam is 80% caca now

Lose your desire to have professional sounding product

Lose every ounce of fashion sense/style

Suddenly lose interest in EVERY creative idea you've presented to the public over the last 10 years

Distance yourself from all the talented people around you, including the ones that you personally put on

And dude did a great job acting in "Paid In Full", but he somehow lost those acting chops when the "Killa Season" movie rolled around

.

The slippage was noticeable on "Crime Pays". Half was good, the other half can go right in the trash bin. Then it just got worse. It didn't help that Vado was never able to hold my attention, because some of that "Boss of All Bosses" era material could have been great with more tweaking.

I guess the first tweak would be.... removing Vado and putting Juelz back in that slot... I wouldn't have been mad if he kept Penz around either.

... a new Cam'ron album.

>How do you...
>
>Lose your voice
>
>Lose your flow/flows
>
>Lose your ear for beats
>
>Lose your competitive drive as a Harlemite... you really let
>Fabolous just surpass you like that? I can't even make a case
>for Cam being better than Fab without looking stupid. And at
>least Jada is putting out serviceable music, Cam is 80% caca
>now
>
>Lose your desire to have professional sounding product
>
>Lose every ounce of fashion sense/style
>
>Suddenly lose interest in EVERY creative idea you've presented
>to the public over the last 10 years
>
>Distance yourself from all the talented people around you,
>including the ones that you personally put on
>
>And dude did a great job acting in "Paid In Full", but he
>somehow lost those acting chops when the "Killa Season" movie
>rolled around
>
>

No one has ever fallen off harder

And let's be real, it's starts with Killa Season.

That's when the beats slip. That's when the quality of recording and mastering goes to shit. That's when the loudest thing on a track is the ad-libs. That's when he really starts to recycle already recycled ideas lyrically and production-wise. Killa Season needed to be a monster, instead it was okay at the time and is pretty much a frisbee now.


Crime pays was 5/10 for me. At best. Like...Ghost started to slide after the butchering of BW but doesn't have an album that bad until More Fish.

>No one has ever fallen off harder
>
>And let's be real, it's starts with Killa Season.
>
>That's when the beats slip. That's when the quality of
>recording and mastering goes to shit. That's when the loudest
>thing on a track is the ad-libs. That's when he really starts
>to recycle already recycled ideas lyrically and
>production-wise. Killa Season needed to be a monster, instead
>it was okay at the time and is pretty much a frisbee now.
>
>
>Crime pays was 5/10 for me. At best. Like...Ghost started to
>slide after the butchering of BW but doesn't have an album
>that bad until More Fish.

I felt like he got back on track with Public Enemy No. 1. Or at least it was a lot of enjoyable weirdness on there. Some of the original versions of the Killa Season songs were fire, but sample clearance hurt that album a bit.

>I felt like he got back on track with Public Enemy No. 1. Or
>at least it was a lot of enjoyable weirdness on there.

^^^^^^ Yeah, 'enjoyable weirdness' is a good way to put it. It was mostly absent from Killa Season but Public Enemy had lots of it.. Now I don't really check for him as the spark seems gone.

Ghostface is a similar one for me, in that the less weird quirks there are (replaced by gangster songs and more gangster songs!!) the less interesting they become. The unintentional (or intentional?) peculiarities of their character is part of what made them special..

Like, I legit LOVED War and Peace Vol. 1. Then, Vol. 2 came back and I just had to admit it, that he was done. But then he came back pretty strong in 2006. And....then, he dropped this.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7lOmfQPHN0

"He's like baby ass....I'm like diaper rash."

That's really a line he said. Like, a real line.

What drove it home more than anything to me was seeing him live in 2013. Two of my top 3 or 4 live concerts were Ice Cube concerts. Seeing him go through the motions on stage damaged my soul.

his first 2 LPs & EP were everything to me as a teenager.

then he started hanging out with Mack 10...

"and then I dropped my brew *bottle breaks*"


*CROCKER*

word booty.

HSUBAKCITS




http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r9/chowyunskinny/Gold%20Chef/iron_chef.jpg

That Mack 10 era was when I was done with duke...trash, tired ish, and Mack 10 is easily one of the least talented brothers to pick up a mic...

There are far worse rappers out there and he has some decent albums. Bang or Ball which was produced by Mannie Fresh is so slept on. Mack 10 was always good for an LA summer banger every year.

>"and then I dropped my brew *bottle breaks*"

yo self" which was my favorite song in 4th grade...then I heard all his other music later.

which listening to it on KDAY this week made me smile, cause i stil think it's dope, BUT the lyrics are hilariously bad

and i know for older heads that's when he fell off to them

I just didn't like the beats on war and peace vol 1.

I can't offer any critique, I just wish him the best.

*applause* (and best wishes for Blu)


--------------------------------
Drop knowledge, not names.

Color in Flight Network
Launching January 1st, 2018

and the run from Crac to Give Me My Flowers was good as fuck IMO

i just don't get the hate.

that's my fav Blu period.

From Crac through Give Me Flowers / UCLA.

NoYork being one of my favorite albums the last 5 years.

...but I feel like his music has remained dope.

I liked "Good To Be Home," "Bad Neighbor," and the "Crenshaw Jezebel" EP. And his guest appearances have been dope. I dunno, maybe all that stuff was recorded during his pre-breakdown days.

I just hope dude gets the help he needs.

That album is incredible IMO. Below The Heavens was cool but it didn't stay in rotation or give me that spark. I slept on Give Me My Flowers but once I heard it I was in awe

>...but I feel like his music has remained dope.

I need to check out that new EP he did with Nottz.

I just wish the sound quality was a little clearer.

Bad Nieghbor was also hella nice.

i don't most of yall really listening

sad really..he made some of the best summer music ever

I will admit that the "Best After Bobby 2" mixtape was trash tho.

By Dom Kennedy was super disappointing but his next album would have
to be disappointing too for me to declare him a "fall off". His new
single wasn't bad. He had a great formula on Get Home, not sure why
he completely abandoned it so fast. By Dom Kennedy was his best
selling album tho, go figure lol.

I listened to that album no less than 100 times.

I feel like he got so damn lazy once the next album came along.

This was every song:

"Damn girl you fine/ I got a lot a cars/ Leimert Park forever!/ girl you fine"

--------------------------------
Drop knowledge, not names.

Color in Flight Network
Launching January 1st, 2018

>I listened to that album no less than 100 times.
>
>I feel like he got so damn lazy once the next album came
>along.
>
>This was every song:
>
>"Damn girl you fine/ I got a lot a cars/ Leimert Park
>forever!/ girl you fine"

On so many levels.

That first album is an all time great. The second album ended his career the ego can bury you. He came back strong on symphony or damn but by that time few cared. Fuckin shame cause when he was focused he can write great songs. I know he still makes music under a different name it's sad he couldn't even get a decent following after his drop from superstardom

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Thought he was being clever and to get more notoriety and well... It backfired
>**********
>"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then
>they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson
>
>"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Just off his debut his he was being put in that circle with Prince, MJ and Madonna.

after one album because he could sang, played the guitar, and didn't make 'normal' soul music. so the comparisons to P were easy. he was diff though cuz his voice is soulful as hell.

to answer your ?, he was big for all of one album.

He had the voice, talented musician, and a good song writer. But his head was on swoll

Trent D'arby, was trying not to be what he could've been, he was too busy chasing the "I can do anything I want with my sound, so let me do it, fuck the fans" idea, he got compared to Lenny, Prince, & Seal too many times and wanted to go left-field with his music, his first album was dope, second album was decent, but his third & fourth albums is where he decided to just say fuck it, here's some music, if you don't like it then fuck you.

When he retired and changed his name to Sananda Maitreya is when he got back on track but it was little too late to be doing what he should've been doing five years ago.

after that he just dove off into some bullshit.

If he put out Symphony or Damn as his follow up to his debut he'd still be named Terence. You can't put out a self indulgent second album and have all that ego claiming to be one of the greats and throw up a brick. As Maxx would say that album had zero money tracks. What was the single anyway? I did enjoy I have faith in these desolate times but the rest is an acquired taste IMO.

I don't care about the sales or chart numbers. *i* enjoyed the 3rd album. After that he fell off hard, IMO.

I enjoy the hell outta that album. I think it shoulda put him back on the map. Maybe not superstar level but he should have gained a following. Then again I think he waited too long to recover from that second album. Folks will forget about you quick. His record company did not really promote that album very well either. I did hear delicate on the radio every now and then back in the day.
..

Now, granted, I would say on the last couple albums they've made they sort of recovered/got it back.

And there's discrepancy amongst fans as to where exactly the fall-off truly occurred.

But I wouldn't trust anyone's opinion if they said a fall-off didn't happen at SOME point after the second album.

I've been rooting for her since '212.' Her antics turn the new ones off to her music, but she is the only female rapper right now that I listen to consistently.

With was she does with hip hop, dance music and house, rapping and singing, she could have been a baby Missy Elliott. I still think she has it in her, but she needs to work through her personal stuff first, and privately.

No mainstream female rapper right now is putting out anything that's touching
Licorice
Van Vogue
Chasing Time
Luxury

just to name a few of her singles.

>I've been rooting for her since '212.' Her antics turn the
>new ones off to her music, but she is the only female rapper
>right now that I listen to consistently.
>
>With was she does with hip hop, dance music and house, rapping
>and singing, she could have been a baby Missy Elliott. I still
>think she has it in her, but she needs to work through her
>personal stuff first, and privately.
>
>No mainstream female rapper right now is putting out anything
>that's touching
>Licorice
>Van Vogue
>Chasing Time
>Luxury
>
>just to name a few of her singles.

When it comes to the American audience, marketability is much more important than artistry. And she doesn't seem to have a group of girls that readily identify with her. Versatility is interesting to music lovers, but the machine can't do anything with it.

Colorism seems to have really affected her career, but she only addressed it in a novelty fashion. Then she turns around and bleaches her skin. Her talent could have been used to make a major statement on colorism with the support of the right people.
It's a very real issue that effects Black female music artists (and obviously Black females in general), and no one in the entertainment business seems to care. Imagine if she chose to articulate in music the thoughts & feelings that led up to that decision. That could have been groundbreaking....

Lauryn, Foxy Brown and Missy Elliot were able to find commercial success somehow.

She burned a lot of bridges. She even went in on Pharrell after the ATM single didn't go anywhere.

>Lauryn, Foxy Brown and Missy Elliot were able to find
>commercial success somehow.
>
>She burned a lot of bridges. She even went in on Pharrell
>after the ATM single didn't go anywhere.
>

had deals, look at the hip-hop media from that time. There wasn't a widespread effort to exclude dark skin women from just about everything hip-hop related where a camera is present.

To make matters more complicated, two of the three artists you named are now generally regarded as crazy, and too difficult to work with.

This doesn't excuse Azealia's actions, but Nicki Minaj has burned bridges, thrown tantrums, allegedly snaked business partners & collaborators, etc. People have somehow moved past it though.

skin. She kept hinting at the fact it was an issue for her, what I'm saying is what if she put that stuff on paper and rapped about it?
Who knows what type of support she would have garnered. She would finally have something that resonates with the casual female rap fan.

But instead she's "I did it, leave me alone" which further alienates people who like her music.

this reply is about personal disappointment, it's not a negative or hateful statement

especially since Nas has without doubt dropped some amazing music with Life is Good and his recent verses.

but yeah I consider Life Is Good to be his second best LP

and I Am was good, but could have been great.

>but yeah I consider Life Is Good to be his second best LP

the second album is just shit.

But yeah, Audio Video Disco was a big disappointment. A song about Ohio was a weird choice.

But even that albnum had Horsepower, Canon, Brianvision and Helix. And Plansipshere should have been on it - that's an interesting detour.

And Woman is pretty good too.

They're probably over - but not to the point where I'd stop checking for them.

i can't think of too many artists that just stopped being dope. mos def isn't on the same level that he was in the late 90's/early 2000's, but he recently dropped a dope ass verse. common has had his weak moments, but he's still consistently dope. a lot of the artists being mentioned still have dope works, even if it's just here and there.

i would have to say Lauryn Hill. I can't think of even one dope verse or song since Miseducation.

Once he left the Gang Starr Foundation and felt he was better than Premier's production, it was over for him, back then he could do no wrong lyrically but once he left Premier's guidance it was proof someone was filtering the bad stuff out, and dope production was 60% of his essence.

Maxwell because after "Fortunate" he been on that Sade Lounge act and his albums now are rides in the same elevator as John Legend.

Lauyrn Hill come on an incredible sophomore album with the fugees
and then to come out like gangbusters on her debut
and then that sad excuse of a Unplugged album.

I won't sad disappointment with a Artist with at least 2-3 tight albums or songs, however the One album wonder wonders,etc,, yeah you fall in this pile.

Darby wanted it all without wanting it all
and it showed. he just ran out of gas before he had a full tank. he has composed really good stuff post debut album, however that kinda material ain't been felt again from him.

i wasn't all that personally disappointed but you ppl were.

more too soon because I know they had more great music ahead of them.



>i wasn't all that personally disappointed but you ppl were.


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

anymore. I think he does, but he just won't take his ass to the booth.

it's frustrating as fuck. he was well on his way to be being King MC, imo.

Dude was legitimately the best rapper out the Wu for a nearly 10 years....then he just started making uninspired albums.


Anti-gentrification, cheap alcohol & trying to look pretty in our twilight posting years (c) Big Reg


Just trying to share the world - www.JySbr.net

He was at his peak on Stankonia and it all came to a sudden halt the moment The Love Below dropped. He was so dope during that 4 album run, definitely in the convo for top 10 or even top 5. What hurt the most was that it almost seemed intentional, like he said 'fuck this shit' and just hung it up. It wasn't like a slow, gradual decline from greatness. He just jumped right off the cliff.

he just doesn't release music work. but all his verses have been fire, even if they are sporadic

I like to think dude is chilling in New York (Big Boi said on "Desus & Mero" that Dre lives out there now) in a big farmhouse painting all day while reading books and cheffing up amazing meals all day.

Basically like the scene with Mos at the end of The Italian Job...living like a baller carefree with a home that smells of rich mahogany like Ron Burgundy...hahaha

--------------------------------
Drop knowledge, not names.

Color in Flight Network
Launching January 1st, 2018

>
> He was at his peak on Stankonia and it all came to a sudden
>halt the moment The Love Below dropped. He was so dope during
>that 4 album run, definitely in the convo for top 10 or even
>top 5. What hurt the most was that it almost seemed
>intentional, like he said 'fuck this shit' and just hung it
>up. It wasn't like a slow, gradual decline from greatness. He
>just jumped right off the cliff.

Where I AM upset that Andre won't put anything out. I refuse to believe that he hasn't worked on stuff by himself and with Patton.

I am to the point where I comfortably assume that dude is straight up scurred of releasing his work. At this point, it clearly doesn't 'matter' if it's not the greatest thing ever. Meanwhile a dude like Donald Glover has a whole discography with a pfunk album as the current end of it. It's ridiculous.

Like Mos, Jay Elec has / had so much talent and skill. So much that he could have been an all-time great. But for seemingly unnecessary reasons the climb to his career is over.

If Act II dropped, I don't think people would be hyped over the music or to find out how dope Jay is. I know I would only buy the album to finally live out the now dead dream of supporting one of my, then, favorite artists.

So sad and senseless.

the way you barely got on?

Others already listed Lauryn, DMX, Mos, etc.

Bobby was on his way to being Michael's heir apparent. Watch any of his performances from his 88-92 heyday and tell me that no one outside of MJ could touch him. He had it all but ...we all know what happened.

>Others already listed Lauryn, DMX, Mos, etc.
>
>Bobby was on his way to being Michael's heir apparent. Watch
>any of his performances from his 88-92 heyday and tell me that
>no one outside of MJ could touch him. He had it all but ...we
>all know what happened.

I know in zoomed out terms but not exactly. Or is the zoomed out (Whitney, them drugs, and biscuits) about it?

It's crazy how huge Don't be cruel is. That's one of those where I had the songs and the album but I didn't 'get it' until well after the fact. Maybe I was just a tad too young to be thinking about it at that time.

http://pitchfork.com/news/69168-common-shares-new-song-home-listen/


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

i think skill wise, Com's stayed in his comfort zone since Be (outside of UMC which critically - at the time - was his strike 2).

He's a very good mc. He's a very good writer. some of his music this past decade has been great, most of it really good, but there's something "special" missing from his post LWFC discography. He just doesn't seem to have that poetic touch his earlier stuff had

>but there's something "special" missing from his post LWFC
>discography. He just doesn't seem to have that poetic touch
>his earlier stuff had

I really liked a lot of TD/TB, liked the concept of Nobody's Smiling, and LOVE Black America Again. But I agree for the most part. I think BAA was a sort of return to form, he seemed more in his comfort zone than he's been since Be. But with that said, I had this same feeling when hearing any of his new music since TD/TB ... like, this is really good but there's something missing, some of the old magic. And I had previously attributed that to my getting older and just not really getting that feeling anymore at all from any new music, and felt like maybe my own personal youth and growth had been the source of that feeling. Then late last fall I came across a Common song I'd never heard before, released in 1999 or 2000, with DJ JS-1 called "While I'm Dancin'" and that feeling came back again hearing his verse on that track. So I guess there was a certain something he had back in his younger days that just isn't there anymore. And to bring it full circle, it probably has a lot to do with HIS age and getting older, in that the hunger he had from Resurrection thru Be just isn't the same as it was. Which is fine, he's still making some really great music and can still rap his ass off. But yea - I think there's something to be said for that youth magic he had. And a lot of other artists too, it's not just him.

Yea, the one from Snoop's camp who made "Wrong idea" (which was really just gifted to him by Snoop since he was on his label."

He was in the LBC Crew, and he got my attention on Tha Eastsidaz track "Nigga 4 life." His flow was BUTTER on there,

His second album "Personal business" was DOOOOOPE. I still feel 2001 was L.A.'s strongest year between 1996 and 2010, and this was one of the best 3-5 albums in that period. He was dope as hell, great delivery, personality, lyrics, authenticity.

Then his life just went downhill. He got jumped by Kurupt's boys after a set up. And years later he dropped a project that was horrendous and bootleg.

>Yea, the one from Snoop's camp who made "Wrong idea" (which
>was really just gifted to him by Snoop since he was on his
>label."

I never really paid a ton of attention to him but I loved this track.


>Then his life just went downhill. He got jumped by Kurupt's
>boys after a set up.

Tell me more about this.

http://www.rapbasement.com/tha-row/bad-azz-speaks-about-getting-jumped-by-tha-row.html


**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Res- promising first album. Forgettable turn in Idle Warship and then......????

Lauryn - already well documented.

Amel- great start with GT. Beloved solo debut. Solid enough sophomore effort. All downhill musically from there. Either just wack or not compelling save for her jazz standards album.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

Amel's first solo is great but she only got better with every successive album IMO.

...And I'm one of the few who found the jazz standards record to be a bore and a rare misstep.

This alone blows 99% of that other ish out the water...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCLHjkwxKAE

I was a big fan as a kid, that second album was trash compared to the
first, different production, and two members left.

But coming after The Underwater Album is was pedestrian. They really came out so strong on the debut, innovative ideas lyrically and subject matter-wise. The 2nd album had some dope moments but it could've hold a candle to the first one. Vex rhymed his ass off on both albums though. Mondo was just decent on God Sound.

>But coming after The Underwater Album is was pedestrian. They
>really came out so strong on the debut, innovative ideas
>lyrically and subject matter-wise. The 2nd album had some dope
>moments but it could've hold a candle to the first one. Vex
>rhymed his ass off on both albums though. Mondo was just
>decent on God Sound.

But anything coming after the incredible (and super underrated) production on the Underwater Album was bound to be disappointing.

Plus, God Sound felt like it was about three hours long.


os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

After Love Deluxe and Sweetback (her band) I just knew the next
project would be crazy. It was not and the one after that was not
either. Also surprised there was never a Leroy Osbourne solo album.

Still want albums tho, cause her tours are the best ever.

One of her most well written albums song for song, and still engaging musically. Way more compelling than their latest work, Soldier of Love. Better than all her albums save for Love Deluxe and Love is Stronger Than Pride.
______________________________________________________________________________

cscpov.blogspot.com

"There's a fine line between persistence and foolishness..."
-unknown

"To Each His Reach"

.

os·ti·na·to
/ˌästəˈnädō/
noun
a continually repeated musical phrase or rhythm

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

https://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2017/332378

I think they just needed to differ a bit more with the subsequent releases. Kinda got a feeling like they'd peaked already. They could've used a larger script flip after Cookie. I got bored of their following albums.

Not sure if you can calling fallin off since he really never fell in...

But that one album was fire... then nothing...

Fool wanted a 100% of nothing rather than a percentage of something.
And prolly thought he was more talented than he was. First album was
dope tho.

...and the rest of the Dungeon Family.


Since 1976

*Come*, specifically, was such a disappointment to me. Everything after that had a pretty unfavorable hit-to-miss ratio.

(Though I do ride hard for Emancipation-- that's the exception).

Funk n Roll

But everything before that is untouchable sans a few songs

Everything before '96 was gravy ...to me.

Different strokes for different folks, I see.

for me, the thing that made Prince "fall off" was the incorporation of rap into his music.

that wasn't him. "Dead On It" was, because he was making fun of it.

but all that "Jughead", and "Goldnigga" stuff... no.

I would have loved to hear Tony M-free early '90s Prince.

The rappity rap Prince was definitely cringeworthy for the most part but thankfully, it was only a sliver of his '90s output.

IMO, his '90s run was decent until Emancipation, ironically his first non-Warner release.

The Verve had some stellar albums even besides Urban Hymns and his vocal performances were great. But once he went solo his ego took hold and he just slowly sank into mediocrity both lyrically and in terms of quality ideas. Working with No ID of all people on the United Nations of Sound album was a low point. It was corny and cringeworthy. Feels like he is gone now.

Interpol is another group that really fell the hell off. Those first 2 albums were instant classics but they've also reached the point of irrelevance with ho hum releases that lack memorable moments. Shame.