Punk ass hating motherfuckers had me fooled. Eyes wide open now. Fuck. Them.

What's going on here?

https://youtu.be/nyKcZb5LufE

A damn shame they made it at all. Ugly ass song. More hurtful that it came from one of my favorite groups. Guess they were hanging around Brand Nubian too much around that time. Sounds like something that would have been on One for All.

that song could have fucked up not only a classic album, but their reputation forever.

...still love Tribe, but they are of course capable of making mistakes and being influenced by the wrong thing like everyone else....

...glad the label put their foot down, cause this one song would ruin TLEM

>...still love Tribe, but they are of course capable of making
>mistakes and being influenced by the wrong thing like everyone
>else....
>
>...glad the label put their foot down, cause this one song
>would ruin TLEM

I mean Phife had the occasional homophobic term or lyric attacking 'softness' in men, but yeah this song is disappointing to hear, even moreso coming from them.

Now if they stand by the song that a different story .

which shows that he's just a horrible person. Grand Puba, Phife, and definitely Q-Tip could have very well learned and grown up. But this song is also a bi-product of how we raise our boys.

It's a shame they made it, but nothing from their music or public life since has indicated that this is their concrete feelings. Hip-hop masculinity and homophobia is a tough thing to overcome, but the intelligent ones do.

Shameful song. Glad it was scrapped .

And then Phife doubled down on 'Oh My God' saying he's an anti-batty bwoy.

Fuck Tribe. They were one of my favorites b4 I learned this about them. I still am torn about them really.

The Beastie's clearly were young punks who grew up and became better men (Ad Rock even apologized in Time Out magazine in 1999), but Licensed to Ill was originally going to be titled "Don't Be a Faggot." Columbia refused to release it with that title.

Chuck on "Letter to the Post" was pretty homophobic "Ask James Cagney / He beat up on a guy when he found he was a fagney / Cagney is a favorite / He is my boy / He don't jive around / He's a real McCoy," and BDK rapped "the Big Daddy law is anti-faggot / That means no homosexuality."

>The Beastie's clearly were young punks who grew up and became
>better men (Ad Rock even apologized in Time Out magazine in
>1999), but Licensed to Ill was originally going to be titled
>"Don't Be a Faggot." Columbia refused to release it with that
>title.
>
>Chuck on "Letter to the Post" was pretty homophobic "Ask James
>Cagney / He beat up on a guy when he found he was a fagney /
>Cagney is a favorite / He is my boy / He don't jive around /
>He's a real McCoy," and BDK rapped "the Big Daddy law is
>anti-faggot / That means no homosexuality."
>

Chuck's semi homophobic lines were on "Meet the G That Killed Me."

"The anti-batty bwoy, big up is who I be."

Interesting that some speculate that Brand Nubian may have influenced them. I suspect it might have been a case of both groups sharing similar views on sexuality.

I was never down with phife after I heard it. I kept this out of his RIP posts but I kinda spit on his grave.

yes, that what was what a 22 year old Caribbean would have said there

but it was scratched out for the sake of political correctness

this was a moot point in 1993, it's even more so in 2016

https://youtu.be/rJS4cfdVGa8

way to make your point

and if there's speculation towards their views on the subject, I don't see it as a problem being presented or discussed, whether it has three hundred, or three million views.

see also:

http://genius.com/67280


1 for the treble, 2 for the bass
You know the style Tip, it's time to flip this
I like my beats hard like two day old shit
Steady eating booty MCs like cheese grits
My man Al B. Sure, he's in effect mode
Used to have a crush on Dawn from En Vogue
It's not like honey dip would wanna get with me
But just in case I own more condoms than T.L.C
Now the formula is this: me, Tip, and Ali
For those who can't count it goes 1-2-3
The anti batty boy, big up is who I be

{Batty boy is a derogatory term for gay men used in the Caribbean (Phife has Trinidadian heritage).

Although censored in most versions of the song, the slur is left intact in some remixes. In the video Q-Tip makes a point of miming the words “batty boy” straight to camera.}

Brothers find this hard to do but never me
Some brothers try to diss but Malik, you see 'em bitching
Me no care about them dibby MC, my shit is hitting
Trini gladiator, anti-hesitater
Shaheed push the fader from here to Grenada
Mr Energetic, who me sound pathetic?
When's the last time you heard a funky diabetic?
(I don't know man, I don't know man, I don't know man)
(I don't know, I don't know)

being that it's scratched out, that resolves the issue of offending people

but continue playing dumb

never heard this remix.
this beat is amazing.
all three versions of this song are great.

yeah hip hop is more than kinda homophobic. nothing new. don't listen if you don't want to listen. i wouldn't. people still love tribe and always will. too too classic. some gays will even probably not care by and large because they will say, "oh, yeah I know. But the breaks are too funky, and we can marry now. ever notice how busta buss is less wild-sounding now and he raps really fast more often? i miss how he was just nutso like when he would growl like a dragon or tell people they had flavor in their ass crease." know what I mean? and then that guy's gay native tongues-head friend would be like, "yeah man but buss is just in a new space now. from Big Bang Theory to his verse on 90059, he just is feeling different sometimes. Plus he was doing all that 'RAWR RAWR' stuff on that eminem collab a couple years back still." and then the first gay dude is like "yeah I like that verse Em had except for when he said, 'You ain't the real slim shady. sit your ass down, faggot.'" and the whole thing comes full circle and the two hypothetical gay rap fans go eat somewhere before parting and saying "see you in the morning" because they work together. then one guy says, "if anyone in the world is a fag it's Kevin" they guy they work with who is always doing something mean to one or both of these no longer hungry gay IT guys.

and found this post

this reads like a prototype AI program creating a reply

which is a bit much...but are we just going to pretend to forget what 90s hip-hop was like? Shit, what the 90s were like. By no means does it make it right, but a lot more shit used to fly back in the 90s.

Common was still dropping questionable lyrics in 2000.

My question is, where is the line for you? Is this primarily because they made an entire track back in 1991 or do you feel the same way about MCs that drop similar lines in tracks?

Edit...track would've really hurt the album btw...shit ain't cool by any means.

But what if Eminem had dropped the N-Word in a rhyme? Some black people might let it slide, but the vast majority would take issue with that and at the very least think less of him.

Even though racism was more overt and direct in last century, it's still difficult to read books where white authors decided to use the word 'nigger' even if its used as satire or to critique the characters using the word.

It's true that our society is now less tolerant of homophobia and that 90s hip-hop was really hardcore and in some cases hateful, but it doesn't mean that they ought to get passes because of the times the musicians created their art.

My own tastes tend to side towards artists who are inclusive, but I'm learning that even some of my favorite acts have traits to their music, that as a middle-aged man, I can't clap for anymore.

I know I've made comments or had attitudes back in the 90's which are unacceptable now. Thankfully none of those are recorded or on the Internet, but it's okay if someone pointed out when I was wrong. It would only be fair of them to say something.

I try to accept that the music musicians make is amazing and allow for people, like Common and Tribe, to grow from their mistakes but also critique them for having intolerant attitudes.

I was simply asking the question "where is the line" out of curiosity.

By no means am I defending the song.

I always thought this was an interesting topic and have started to make a post about artists and albums we loved back in the day that wouldn't get a pass today. And not only do we champion these artists and albums, we still listen to them today.

Common would definitely be one of those MCs.

The other aspect that is interesting is because of my age, it was NEVER ok for a white person in my mind to use the N word even if singing along with a song and at the same time because of my age, we grew up using homophobic slurs because it wasn't viewed like it is today.

Again, not saying that it makes it right, but I find the desensitization intriguing.

I guess the line is the same one for porn, 'I can't tell you what porn is, but I know porn when I see it.'

The word 'punk' was a word that wasn't offensive to me growing up, neither was 'sissy', but f_g and d_ke never sat well with me.

Granted most of the hip-hop I listened to when I was younger was tame . My parents had a rule against my brother and I listening to explicit music in the house.

But the first time, I had an intense reaction to homophobic lyrics was listening to Like Water for Chocolate. I was in my early 20's, out of college and living in San Francisco, so my awareness of the impact those words had was more developed at that age.

But I still listened to the album on a regular basis even though I objected to the lyrics, so my discomfort couldn't have been too powerful.

My awareness is heightened, but I still listen to music that I think is dope which unfortunately uses hateful lyrics. There's always been that experience in hip-hop where you know the lyrical content is self-destructive but the song is so well made that it's almost impossible to do anything but nod your head.

Weeding out music that doesn't use homophobic imagery would be symbolic but it could lead to making a decided interest to learn more about LGBT issues.

There's this:
http://www.mtv.com/news/1480512/the-source-digs-up-tape-of-eminem-using-racial-slurs/

and to a lesser degree, this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnMiTrpYkgQ

I should have done some more research into my statement, but based on the lyrics, Em's comments are dumb and aren't something he should have ever made, even if it was on a demo sometime ago.

and he referred to black women as black bitches

Dave mays and benzino outed him with a tape they included with the source magazine

it had no effect

rappers even came to his defense.
he's good.

When 90’s hiphop as a whole has consistently thrown black people (especially women) under the train without secret or culture colloquialism but in plain english and with a continued no fucks given.

Anyway I take solace in an almost 60yr old Too Short only child being a beautiful 5yr old daughter. I hope he lives a long life and is blessed to share time with his granddaughters too.

Or a "can't be mad at white ppl saying nigga if we mistreat each other" argument?

Idk. Might wanna rethink that one.

It’s more of a ‘all it takes is for us to let one piece of shit hit the fan…’.
In both cases it happens, we never aired Em’ out nor do I recall hearing an apology. It was glossed over with light spurts of outrage(if you can even call it that). Even mentioning black rappers that beat him in free styles was overlooked. Even his fail on BET awards cypher was a chuckle then back to norm. We continue to support him.

Same goes for the disrespect of Black women by black rappers. When black women did “fuss” about it, it fell on deaf ears with rappers just pushing and fabricating stereotypes. To the point of going beyond name calling and pimp talk and to rapping about raping and killing black women with black males and females singing along.
Even today the most anti-Sexyy Red woman advocate will hit the dance floor or rap along to TooShorts’ ‘blow the whistle’.

Neither should be excused but we’ve already excused them. Although there hasn’t been a influx of white rappers throwing the n-word around, we did however get Drake sometimey ass as a semi-replacement. As for the some black male rappers, they’ve continued berating black women but there are black female rappers carrying the torch too.

>My own tastes tend to side towards artists who are inclusive,
>but I'm learning that even some of my favorite acts have
>traits to their music, that as a middle-aged man, I can't clap
>for anymore.

... I think there's a big difference between not clapping for old songs/lyrics from artists where the language / subject matter is defensive and deplorable, and straight up denouncing the group entirely based on one song they made when they were what, like 19 ?

And I don't want to downplay how atrocious that song is, it's awful. I just don't think one song from 1991 (unreleased, at that) is worthy should result in eternal damnation for one of the greatest rap groups of all time.

has he dropped questionable lyrics regarding homosexuality since then? kind of seemed like he overcame it at that point.

>has he dropped questionable lyrics regarding homosexuality
>since then?

that verse was my response to people who might wonder if Common is still homophobic in anyway, and it was recorded after 2000.

with a friend, front row at a show. Circa 2000 or so - I think it was that "in the circle of f****ts your name is mentioned" lyric. And he came up to us after the show and literally thanked us and said he'd been thinking a lot about it and was trying to make some changes. Very sincerely. I was actually kind of touched by that. Means a lot to man up like that and fix it when you were wrong.

But I hear you, SoWhat. It's easy for me to let it slide as a straight guy.

That's a fucking awesome story. Good for you guys and good for Comm.

>with a friend, front row at a show. Circa 2000 or so - I
>think it was that "in the circle of f****ts your name is
>mentioned" lyric. And he came up to us after the show and
>literally thanked us and said he'd been thinking a lot about
>it and was trying to make some changes. Very sincerely. I was
>actually kind of touched by that. Means a lot to man up like
>that and fix it when you were wrong.

cringe.

Common - I don't fuck with him.
Cube - nope.
Raekwon - nope.

The list goes on. I delete the offending songs from my collection bc I'm not trying to hear that hateful shit. Would you listen to Klan records? Would you excuse it via historical context of they were talking anti shit about YOU??? I get the bullshit excuses when they're talking about those ppl over there. But they're talking about you. Then again, women hear rappers call them bitches and take that shit. I don't fuck with too much of that either though. Which is why I don't listen to too much HH generally, really. Fuck all of that hateful ass shit.

Is it a matter of hateful shit or ignorant shit?

For example, do you view an ignorant white kid that uses the N word around his friends (white and black) the same way as you view a white kid that actually use the N word towards black people the same?

And there is something to be said for allowing people to grow up and forgiving a mistake they made and just so happened to record when they were 19.

I feel you're intelligent enough to understand how this works. Maybe all you need is to hear Tribe denounce that song and admit to the ignorance and hatefulness. If that happened, would you then be able to enjoy the rest of their catalogue?

I'm pretty sure somewhere in your past you have said and done some hateful shit. Should we all hold you to it now?

And please don't take this as defending the song...just adding another view point because I feel not putting something in context can be harmful.

>Is it a matter of hateful shit or ignorant shit?

huh?

LOL

it's hateful. and ignorant.

the real question is whether one is willing to issue a pass. if one is willing to excuse the hateful bullshit b/c the group was 'young' and 'ignorant' then go on w/that. i'm not willing to largely b/c Phife came back w/more of that bullshit on the NEXT album after the label had already given the smackdown w/this GP thing. so clearly the homophobia was real important to him and since the group allowed it was important to them too. and all of these years later no apology or anything. no evidence of 'growth' - they just stopped talking about it. i don't know that they changed at all.

I clearly pointed out the difference of ignorance and hatefulness while stating this particular song was both. I'm beyond this song and I was asking clarifying questions on the grand scheme of the topic but you clearly too into this specific situation to discuss objectively.

You actually said "they stopped talking about" and then said "how have they changed"?

It's pretty clear they don't still hold those views or else they would still be talking about it and even if they do still hold those views, they now know it's offensive and don't need to talk about it.

good for you though.

oh..and i didn't read your whole post up there b/c i don't fuck w/you as a general principle. so i didn't want to read your hot air bullshit. so sorry if my reply didn't address the meat of your ridiculousness.

Way to come off like a reasonable person.

>Would
>you listen to Klan records? Would you excuse it via historical
>context of they were talking anti shit about YOU???

tribe has a history of violence/killing homosexuals?

blacks in america have a history of violence against or killing homosexuals??

people always trying to compare their situation to blacks...when the shit aint even in the same stratosphere

smfh

so at least we know he learned from his mental mistake

from Electric Circus


He spoke with his eyes, tear-filled
A lump in his throat, his fear built
My whole life it was in steel
This ain't the way that men feel
A feeling, he said he wish he could kill
A feeling, not even time could heal
This is how real life's supposed to be?
For it to happen to someone close to me?
So far we'd come, for him to tell me
As he did, insecurity held me
I felt like he failed me
To the spirit, yelled help me
I'd known him for like what seemed forever
About going pro we dreamed together
Never knew it would turn out like this
For so long he tried to fight this
Now there was no way for him to ignore it
His parents found out and hated him for it
How could I judge him? Had to accept him if I truly loved him
No longer he said had he hated himself
Through sexuality he liberated himself between me and you

A couple small corrections that help it read/flow better:



He spoke with his eyes, tear-filled
A lump in his throat, his fear built
My whole life it was instilled
This ain't the way that men feel
A feeling, he said he wish he could kill
A feeling, not even time could heal
This is how real life's supposed to be?
For it to happen to someone close to me?
So far we'd come, for him to tell me
As he did, insecurity held me
I felt like he failed me
'Til his spirit yelled "help me"
I'd known him for like what seemed forever
About going pro we dreamed together
Never knew it would turn out like this
For so long he tried to fight this
Now there was no way for him to ignore it
His parents found out and hated him for it
How could I judge him? Had to accept him if I truly loved him
No longer he said had he hated himself
Through sexuality he liberated himself between me and you



>He spoke with his eyes, tear-filled
>A lump in his throat, his fear built
>My whole life it was in steel
>This ain't the way that men feel
>A feeling, he said he wish he could kill
>A feeling, not even time could heal
>This is how real life's supposed to be?
>For it to happen to someone close to me?
>So far we'd come, for him to tell me
>As he did, insecurity held me
>I felt like he failed me
>To the spirit, yelled help me
>I'd known him for like what seemed forever
>About going pro we dreamed together
>Never knew it would turn out like this
>For so long he tried to fight this
>Now there was no way for him to ignore it
>His parents found out and hated him for it
>How could I judge him? Had to accept him if I truly loved him
>No longer he said had he hated himself
>Through sexuality he liberated himself between me and you

.

A happier troll now.

I'm sorry if your favorite group is a bunch of hateful ass coward motherfuckers. Feel free to stay down with them. You too might be a hateful coward. It's fine though. We're not friends. Just internet strangers.

>A happier troll now.

After reading this post I'm more convinced of it.

He's simply stating his opinion, not going after folks.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll

The fact that he deems this board unworthy of
discussing said topic and refuses to engage anyone
kinda spells trolling. Buildingblock does a lot
of "here's what I think" opinion-based posting too,
but at least he'll pretend to give a damn about what
people have to say in response even tho he's not
gonna change his mind lol.

>He's simply stating his opinion

Right, but here's the ironic thing...
SoWhat posted this opinion to a discussion board
then openly admitted he doesn't find this board
worthy of the discussion.
Yet you're asking handle why he posted his opinion
in response.

Sadly I can't so i have to just ignore you and others who I don't care to discuss anything with. Fuck you - fuck off - don't read my posts or reply to them bc i don't care what you think about anything. But there are a few ppl here whom I care to discuss stuff with. As you can see here I have had some talk with them. I just don't care to do so with the likes of you. That doesn't make me a troll it makes me selective.

I'm reading your posts and replying.
Be very mad.
I don't give a goddamn if your trolling is
selective or indiscriminate. It's still
trolling. Foh.
You in here trolling ppl who support you,
and reply #41 is some troll shit no matter
which way you dice it.
Enjoy your angry day.

Tribe made that record, I didnt. I made this post hoping someone would post info about an apology from Tribe. I wasn't looking for discussion as there is nothing to discuss - they made that record, it's abhorrent, in order to make it they must be some hateful ass repugnant motherfuckers at least at the time. If they changed course after seeing the error of expressing such a vile sentiment that deeply offends me as a long time fan then I want proof. Not guesses - proof. I figured since you ppl follow them so close one or more of you might know if there is actual proof that Tribe is sorry about having made this record. So far I'm getting nothing but made up excuses from fans who are likely as shocked as I am. And I'm being attacked by idiots of course. But that's OKP - a gathering of gaggling, cackling fools. So no surprise there about the silliness below or your own foolishness about this troll thing. It's hard to see your idols have such ugliness in them - I know bc I feel that about this GP thing. So I get why you dummies attack me. Fuck u just the same, bitch. And if you know about a Tribe apology I want to know. Otherwise - fuck off.

I made this post hoping
>someone would post info about an apology from Tribe.

"Fuck ATCQ" is what your headline says, that sort of headline is meant to get views/responses/reactions

Not guesses - proof. I
>figured since you ppl follow them so close one or more of you
>might know if there is actual proof that Tribe is sorry about
>having made this record.

we have no proof, we have hope that one rapper amongst the living and one who saw an early grave this year have evolved over 25 years

It's hard to see your idols have such ugliness in
>them - I know bc I feel that about this GP thing. So I get why
>you dummies attack me. Fuck u just the same, bitch. And if you
>know about a Tribe apology I want to know. Otherwise - fuck
>off.

you're not a victim here.
you weren't attacked for saying "I dont like that they made this song"
you said "Fuck A Tribe Called Quest. Punk ass hating motherfuckers had me fooled. Eyes wide open now. Fuck. Them"

about a group we hold in high regard, about a song that was never released. you got what you were looking for in return

MEANWHILE YOU CREATED YOUR OKAYPLAYER.COM SCREENNAME BASED OFF OF A COMPOSITION FROM A REPEATED WOMAN ABUSER YOU CANT PICK AND CHOOSE WHEN TO BE ON YOUR HIGH HORSE PLEASE STOP TROLLING US

You made the post to say 'fuck them'
That's cool, and we understand.
Ain't gotta lie to kick it Craig, we can read the OP.

There's no way, even then, that record would come out even if they did. But even in spirit, it wouldn't have fit any of their albums.

Phife lived a hard life and is dead now. He deserves it. Fuck him them and you.

....you need your head checked dude, for real ...and the timing of this post is mad suspect ...first news of a new Tribe album and people are crazy excited about it, and here you go pulling this song out like a card in your back pocket ..i knew this post smelled fishy before i even clicked on it ..you had a point, but fuck you, you lost me with all this disrespect for the dead

>....you need your head checked dude, for real ...and the
>timing of this post is mad suspect ...first news of a new
>Tribe album and people are crazy excited about it, and here
>you go pulling this song out like a card in your back pocket
>..i knew this post smelled fishy before i even clicked on it
>..you had a point, but fuck you, you lost me with all this
>disrespect for the dead

my bad. i should show more respect for Dear Sainted Phife Dawg the Homophobe.

LOL

>you lost me with all this
>disrespect for the dead

this, and the whole "i'll have a real convo elsewhere with ppl who actually matter to me" stuff.

like, cmon breh.

tapping out of this post now.

>this, and the whole "i'll have a real convo elsewhere with ppl
>who actually matter to me" stuff.

We might be only saying respect the dead because in this case it's someone we respect. If Bill O'Reilly died and someone said they spit on that racist's grave we would probably have no problem with it because of our relationship with the deceased. I think SoWhat's relationship to Tribe is worth exploring because here's the thing, are we ok with ignoring the hurt of our brother (SoWhat) in order to embrace the musical legacy of the source of that hurt? He has every right to be pissed at hateful language when he's the target of it. There are layers here that I think are worth discussing.

>There are layers here that I think are worth discussing.

Would be cool if the OP were willing to engage on some of them.

like i said below - i'm especially disgusted w/Tribe's homophobia b/c i considered them a 'safe' HH group. a refuge from all of the awful noise from those NGE groups like Brand Nubian and others. i was so into them and De La back in the wayback b/c i wasn't bombarded w/the same horrific nonsense i heard from too many other HH acts. and now it feels like that was all a lie. they tricked me.

because they will more than likely be different than the art they portray thus disappoint you. Art isn't 100% reflection of a human being and their ideas. It is packaged in a certain way and they expose whatever they want you to see. It isn't, 'here.....here are all my actual thoughts and beliefs on the world' now buy what I am selling. It's 'here's what I want you to see', now buy it. Time, place, and end goal has to be put in context.

Hip hip was birthed out of a West Indian culture and West Indians can be maaad homophobic. It doesn't make it right....and it doesn't excuse it, it just places things into context. I don't spit on Phife's grave, I feel sorry for him and those like him. If Bill O'Reilly dies, the same would go for him. Same for Klan members. Not to say that I will let them harm me or do whatever. But while fighting back, and let's say in the process I kill 1 or 2, I bury them, pay my respects......then keep it moving. I won't be like 'Hah, glad you are dead....I piss on you'. Nah.

But, I see what you are saying and understand the anger.

Hope there is an artist out there who fully represents what you want in their art as well as his/her personal life.

i know this from experience.

nope you're not trolling us at all

What else would you like to happen?

Either way tho, an apology wouldn't be enough. Dude said in another post that he doesn't fuck with Common cause of his past transgressions even though Common very famously and candidly owned up to them in "Between Me, You and Liberation"

i haven't found any info but i'd appreciate seeing some.

I can't remember the source, but the interviewer asked Tip if the song was real and he said yes. He said he doesn't feel that way now and that it was outside of his character, and something about regretting making it.

It's gonna bug me until I remember, for sure.

grand puba dropped a record THIS YEAR still talking that "adam and steve / he cipher monkey cipher" nonsense

https://youtu.be/VgZel2G40tE

and we all know about jamar's foolishness.

BN used to be one of my absolute favorite groups too. smfh.

It was trash to me right from the top.

took me a minute to "see the light"

The actual body of people who make up the nation is another story. I'm a 5%er who doesn't subscribe to such hateful ideology. That said I recognize that even within the 5%...there is a 5%.

>The actual body of people who make up the nation is another
>story.


THIS! There will always be outliers and folks who bring their own personal baggage into anything.

My thing is this....

This was the collab with Brand Nubian...which meant chances of it having a DECIDED 5% slant is high.

2nd...this is the early 90s. These cats were early 20s at best. They had yet to develop a sense of place and purpose.

3rd...I haven't heard anything remotely homophobic for them before or since.

In the early 90s? I was at Morehouse clowning the "faggot" in the Glee Club with me because I didn't know any better. I was taught it was alien, that it made you less of a man and that it was a betrayal. Not by my parents...but DEFINITELY by my peers who shaped my worldview. Mind you, dude I was clowning was COOLER than a fan...but I wasn't comfortable enough with myself and my own views to discover that until MUCH later.

As I got older, I got wiser. I'm no longer as quick to call someone a faggot or other sexual preference slur. But I had to learn that, b. It wasn't something I was taught.

As a matter of fact...the only person I regularly use slurs with is tREBLEFREE'S faggot ass because HE KNOWS I'm joking and I'd give my life for him in a heartbeat.

Don't know if that helps...but I felt it was important to share.

D

© SoWhat

Ain't nobody got time for fluid, nuanced conversation.

I'll have it elsewhere with ppl who actually matter to me.

>I'll have it elsewhere with ppl who actually matter to me.

So this post was, what, just practice for the nuanced conversations you'll actually participate in later with said people ? Cool.

bless your heart.

we're not friends - i don't know you beyond a few words on a screen. you mean shit to me.

good luck.

Good luck to you too fleshing this conversation that you posted to a public board out a little further with your real friends.

>My thing is this....
>
>This was the collab with Brand Nubian...which meant chances of
>it having a DECIDED 5% slant is high.
>
>2nd...this is the early 90s. These cats were early 20s at
>best. They had yet to develop a sense of place and purpose.
>
>3rd...I haven't heard anything remotely homophobic for them
>before or since.
>
>In the early 90s? I was at Morehouse clowning the "faggot" in
>the Glee Club with me because I didn't know any better. I was
>taught it was alien, that it made you less of a man and that
>it was a betrayal. Not by my parents...but DEFINITELY by my
>peers who shaped my worldview. Mind you, dude I was clowning
>was COOLER than a fan...but I wasn't comfortable enough with
>myself and my own views to discover that until MUCH later.
>
>As I got older, I got wiser. I'm no longer as quick to call
>someone a faggot or other sexual preference slur. But I had to
>learn that, b. It wasn't something I was taught.
>
>As a matter of fact...the only person I regularly use slurs
>with is tREBLEFREE'S faggot ass because HE KNOWS I'm joking
>and I'd give my life for him in a heartbeat.
>
>Don't know if that helps...but I felt it was important to
>share.
>
>D

I was born and raised with those teachings and was never taught to hate gay people nor their way of life. Nor was I ever a part of conversations degrading homosexuality. Don't blame it on 5%ers, blame it on the people who say the words. They are held responsible for what comes out of their mouths.

if based on one song or questionable lyric. Couldn't fuck with Nas, Cube, Dre, Snoop. Eddie Murphy, throw his movies out.

Different times, its just cool how we have changed now and it isn't accepted now, thankful for that. I mean Em still threw the word in his last album but got a lot of backlash, where in 2000 Elton cosigned his shit.

>if based on one song or questionable lyric. Couldn't fuck
>with Nas, Cube, Dre, Snoop. Eddie Murphy, throw his movies
>out.

right. fuck 'em all.

b/c that's what i expected to come out of this. i figured one of you Tribe fangirls would post up a statement where Tip decried this song's lyrics.

where it at?

i can't find it.

cry about it!

....no way would Jive or Elekrtra released this even back in 91

but this one got out.

shame on them for ever having made it and for not addressing it since then.

and b/c they came back w/that hate on 'Oh My God' just a couple years later i'm not willing to excuse GP as just youthful ignorance or BN's fault.

the hate is who they are. until they say otherwise.

you don't control how he processes someone slurring something that's important to him. if he feels that something he respects or relates to has been slandered, who are you to tell him how he should react or who he should forgive?

if I just heard a song slandering my life with FIVE different guys chiming in to shit on me, I'd feel a certain way too.

my reaction yesterday was visceral. it came up b/c i was talking to a friend about the new Tribe album coming (super excited!) and he asked if i'd heard this GP thing. i'd heard ABOUT it but hadn't heard it. so then i did. and was like...FUCK THIS SHIT. then i made the post.

and as i made it i googled looking for some statement or som'n where Tip apologized.

it hurts especially b/c i don't fuck w/too much HH due to the prevalence of bitches and faggots and shit. Tribe was one of the few 'safe' groups out there. i already knew about Oh My God and i had put that past me and blamed it squarely on Phife being from one of those islands or whatever and he was young and dumb then so i figured it was maybe a one time thing. but then i had heard ABOUT GP and i just put it out of my mind b/c i didn't want to lose one of my faves. but after hearing it...it's not like they just dropped a line or 2. it's an ENTIRE SONG. i can't look past it. i can if the group apologized and/or decried homophobia or som'n like that. but w/o that...i can't excuse this shit.

the ppl in here are known Lesson hateful folks. i'm not surprised by any of them - none of them are 'my ppl'. the ppl i actually fuck with (except you, Tone) haven't responded.

and has any interviewer ever questioned him or the others about it? Since its an unreleased song that is fairly unknown even to Tribe fans, I could imagine them just wanting it not to be known and bringing it up could lead people to search for it and make it more wide known.

But on the same hand, I can't find anything where he addresses LBGT and gives any support. With rumors for years that he may himself be gay, find it odd he at minimum didn't lend his support.


I have no problem with your distancing yourself from the group now until you find that apology or at least that he doesn't hold any of those views today.

about Tip not wanting to talk about it and not having been asked so he hasn't been confronted w/it.

this song is largely unknown, even to avid fans of the group. i'm sure his thought process is "why dig it up and shine light on it, just to disavow it?"

but i guess it's barely out there since it's 'only' got 19K views on YT and has 'only' been the subject of a handful of blog posts.

unless the right writer shines light on it at the right time it might 'die' out.

but *i* heard the shit and i can't act brand new about it.

like, 100%.

>but *i* heard the shit and i can't act brand new about it.

brought it up...or if a major thinkpiece article caught wind and became viral. And that's been happening a lot nowadays...nothing happened "too long ago" when it's fresh to folks and they're just learning about it.

I do think the issue is that it wasn't released, and most folks never heard it or heard about it. I didn't even hear it until this year. I also get the sense that Q-Tip probably just went along with it, but didn't feel nearly as strong as Phife did about it. Hell...weren't there Q-Tip rumors a while back??

*fingers crossed*

No message

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>With rumors for years that he may
>himself be gay, find it odd he at minimum didn't lend his
>support.


He's supposed to lend his support to lgbt based on
RUMORS of him being gay?
"Oh word? Niggas r sayin I'm gay? Lemme join the pride parade!"
lol
I could see it if he actually is... then it would make alotta sense.
but not based on rumors.

Even still, alotta lgbt folks aren't ready to come out the
closet and ain't tryna be pushed out of it. It has to be
on a person's own terms.

Tribe was one of
>the few 'safe' groups out there.

"they had the greatest beats ever" somehow gets conflated with "they were safe"

the same album where "anti batty boy" was scratched out had "Where the hell can Nicki be? Im gonna smack her up" and ended with "sometimes you got to put the hoes in their frickin place"

the same era where Q-Tip said "I could also do your girl, so leave the hoe at home"

they were young adults like anyone else no matter how musically advanced

>you don't control how he processes someone slurring something
>that's important to him. if he feels that something he
>respects or relates to has been slandered, who are you to tell
>him how he should react or who he should forgive?

Many of us expressed our individual opinions, on this public board, just like he did, when he made the OP, on this very public board. Why make this post, here, on this extremely public message board, if you're unwilling to listen to/even entertain other opinions on the matter ?

No one told him how to feel. Some expressed surprise at his reaction, but tried to engage him further on the topic to better understand where he was coming from (you know, generally how things go down on a public message board, which is where he decided to post his thoughts). At which point he stooped to his usual condescending, one-word-answer BS. And that's the board's fault, of course.


>if I just heard a song slandering my life with FIVE different
>guys chiming in to shit on me, I'd feel a certain way too.

Shit on him ?! Jesus dude. If his or your skin is THAT thin, you both should probably stay off public message boards on the internet. *NOTHING* posted in response to his own OP on this PUBLIC message board can be comprehended as "shitting on him." The only posts that can be considered "attacks" towards him came after he started talking down to people.

>>if I just heard a song slandering my life with FIVE
>different
>>guys chiming in to shit on me, I'd feel a certain way too.
>
>Shit on him ?! Jesus dude. If his or your skin is THAT thin,
>you both should probably stay off public message boards on the
>internet. *NOTHING* posted in response to his own OP on this
>PUBLIC message board can be comprehended as "shitting on him."
>The only posts that can be considered "attacks" towards him
>came after he started talking down to people.

Point still stands though, because his subject line reads that we were "going at" him.

>Many of us expressed our individual opinions, on this public
>board, just like he did, when he made the OP, on this very
>public board. Why make this post, here, on this extremely
>public message board, if you're unwilling to listen to/even
>entertain other opinions on the matter ?

some things aren't up for entertainment. you're telling a gay man that he can't feel offended and say f*ck the offending party? that's not how human emotions work!


>No one told him how to feel. Some expressed surprise at his
>reaction, but tried to engage him further on the topic to
>better understand where he was coming from (you know,
>generally how things go down on a public message board, which
>is where he decided to post his thoughts). At which point he
>stooped to his usual condescending, one-word-answer BS. And
>that's the board's fault, of course.

he stated how he felt and explained why. not sure what else you needed to see.

>Shit on him ?! Jesus dude. If his or your skin is THAT thin,
>you both should probably stay off public message boards on the
>internet. *NOTHING* posted in response to his own OP on this
>PUBLIC message board can be comprehended as "shitting on him."
>The only posts that can be considered "attacks" towards him
>came after he started talking down to people.

I didn't mean YOU guys were shitting on him. the five guys I'm referring to are Q-Tip, Phife Dawg, and the 3 rappers of Brand Nubian, bro.

didn't mean for that to be an abstract concept.

(see what I did there? lol.)

>some things aren't up for entertainment.

Then why post it on a PUBLIC message board ? If he wanted to just discuss it with "his ppl" there are a million other ways to do that without blasting it out for the rest of the okayplayer community to see and respond to.


>you're telling a gay
>man that he can't feel offended and say f*ck the offending
>party? that's not how human emotions work!

Uhhh, no. I'm not. That was the whole point. I responded to his post with my feelings on the matter. Like I said.


>he stated how he felt and explained why. not sure what else
>you needed to see.

I needed to see less childish responses to slightly alternate viewpoints / responses in the PUBLIC FORUM to a post that HE made. I can't stress enough that if he didn't actually want the back and forth (he clearly did) he should have found a different way to limit his audience to just "his ppl"


>I didn't mean YOU guys were shitting on him. the five guys
>I'm referring to are Q-Tip, Phife Dawg, and the 3 rappers of
>Brand Nubian, bro.

Yea my bad. But still, your subject line says we "went at him" so the point still stands to an extent.


>didn't mean for that to be an abstract concept.
>
>(see what I did there? lol.)

Nice.

>>some things aren't up for entertainment.
>
>Then why post it on a PUBLIC message board ? If he wanted to
>just discuss it with "his ppl" there are a million other ways
>to do that without blasting it out for the rest of the
>okayplayer community to see and respond to.

b/c i can't block you ppl. i can't create a list of OKPs who will see my posts w/o the rest of you seeing them.

The Cole Porter based songs Aids benefit album

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hot_%2B_Blue

i don't see them listed ^.

i know The Roots were involved w/Red Hot and Cool:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Moments:_Red_Hot_%2B_Cool

I Get A Kick Out Of You

http://redhot.org/assets/08_RedHotandBlue-1000x1000.jpg

was just listenin to this last week due to neneh cherry etc

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Hot_%2B_Blue
>
>i don't see them listed ^.
>
>i know The Roots were involved w/Red Hot and Cool:
>
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Moments:_Red_Hot_%2B_Cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRUlAnF25mE

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRUlAnF25mE

I'd never actually heard or seen the lyrics; this made me seek it out. (Read the lyrics - that was fucking enough for me.)

I find it harder and harder to give passes these days, particularly if an artist in question has never tried to make amends. And it's nearly impossible to unlearn something like this. And what makes it all the harder to defend is the whole song comes off as really fucking mean-spirited and negative - and so much of Tribe's appeal is that they were the opposite of that. Yes, attitudes have changed a lot in a very short time --- but you have to go out of your way to write lyrics like this, and to make them so repulsive, so vile.

Imagine the thought process: "Hey, what's the best use of our time today? What's the best use of our skill, our artistry, our spirit? How can we make the world a better place through our art? Oh, I know..." And imagine describing the song concept to the features. Like, you have to explain, out loud, the idea for the song, and then not realize how awful and inhumane it is. The amount of intent to do that... it's baffling and deeply troubling.

I'd be lying if I said I'll never play them again. But when/if I reach for them, lord knows a little voice in the back of my head will remind me of this --- and at that point, knowing that the returns of joy earned by listening will be greatly diminished, I wouldn't be surprised to move on to something before ever pressing play.

-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

i'm not exactly ready to delete 'Electric Relaxation' and 'Check the Rhime' and 'Find a Way' among others. but...i dunno. i'm severely disappointed in them right now. that they could make something so vile AND to have to be told by the LABEL not to release it???

wow.

oh..and 'Show Business' is allegedly their response to being told NOT to put that record out.

just...damn.

The label thing blows my mind. But it's actually somewhat encouraging, in an odd way, that Jive wasn't willing to let that slide... not everyday we can praise corporations for ethical forethought or reasonability.


-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

>oh..and 'Show Business' is allegedly their response to being
>told NOT to put that record out.
>
>just...damn.

O_p

Without the intervention of Jive, “Georgie Porgie,” the above track, would have made it on Low End. This pissed Tribe off so much they reused the beat and came up with “Show Business,” one of my favorite of the album’s tracks, a bitter but funny (“More soup with your meal?/ ‘Cause this is the real when you get a record deal”) take on what being an artist without artistic control is like.

http://50golden.tumblr.com/post/58361137915/29-georgie-porgie-a-tribe-called-quest-f

Actually picturing the process behind it. We're talking hours of a combination of talking to each other, planning the concept, then individually writing verses, then multiple takes....the whole thing. \

And the other thing....it seems extremely likely that Georgie is based on a real person. Imagine being him if this song was released? Some old friends of yours start a rap group and then make this song about you during the tumultuous coming out phase at the age of 20 that was so common back then? Just thinking about how cruel that it is. They wanted to use their platform to completely crush what sounds like a completely innocent, casual acquaintance from their past? And to do so in such a public manner? People commit suicide for shit like this.

>And the other thing....it seems extremely likely that Georgie
>is based on a real person. Imagine being him if this song was
>released? Some old friends of yours start a rap group and
>then make this song about you during the tumultuous coming out
>phase at the age of 20 that was so common back then? Just
>thinking about how cruel that it is. They wanted to use their
>platform to completely crush what sounds like a completely
>innocent, casual acquaintance from their past? And to do so
>in such a public manner? People commit suicide for shit like
>this.

Yeah I didn't think about it like this. Man, if Georgie is a real person, that would be horrible. Tragic.

Seems to me pretty likely that if some dude was, as they describe, once 'down' with Tip and/or Phife...that he would probably seek out their new rap record even years later without direct contact. And seems pretty likely that he would know they're talking about him. And if his name is actually George, then they've also just publically outed him to their shared social circle (ie all the people they went to high school with) which he might not have been prepared to do at that time. Can you imagine the realization 'They're talking about me'?

Maybe less so today....but back then EVERYBODY knew someone who was in the process of coming out of the closet/exploring their preferences around the age of 20. (Remember Ralph? Oh yeah Ralph. Did you hear he's gay? I always had my suspicions.....type thing) I would seriously doubt that they created the character in a vacuum. It's based on a real person.

And pieced together this may have played some part in native tongues dissolving.

It also connects with Busta and his expressed views.

As a parent who grew up on hip-hop its been fascinating what I haven't felt sharing with them, and having to reevaluate artists in a different light.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

https://youtu.be/8bbIc0kiNhk

people were real pressed to make that connection and say that Bam was gay because he was doing that goth/warlock/whatever shit.

Tribe and Jungle were cool at that period, so it wouldn't have been about him.

>And the other thing....it seems extremely likely that Georgie
>is based on a real person. Imagine being him if this song was
>released? Some old friends of yours start a rap group and
>then make this song about you during the tumultuous coming out
>phase at the age of 20 that was so common back then? Just
>thinking about how cruel that it is. They wanted to use their
>platform to completely crush what sounds like a completely
>innocent, casual acquaintance from their past? And to do so
>in such a public manner? People commit suicide for shit like
>this.

And even if it wasn't a single person, but more of a composite, they're still writing hateful, venomous lyrics about people they know purely for the hate of it.


-thebigfunk

~ i could still snort you under the table ~

http://cypheravenue.com/a-tribe-called-homophobic-the-most-anti-gay-rap-song-ever-ever/

http://www.complex.com/music/2013/06/horrible-songs-made-by-great-rappers/a-tribe-called-quest-georgie-porgie

http://50golden.tumblr.com/post/58361137915/29-georgie-porgie-a-tribe-called-quest-f

this song is really bad. Its not like its a rapper dissing another rapper with a few lines which for me is easier to give passes to for the times. This is about them finding out their friend George is gay and then bashing him the entire song, just not cool at all.

...if I held lyrics that were said when they were kids years ago against them.....

I mean, KRS One never apologized for some of the homophobic shit he said...But he appeared on a record with Michael Stipe, so I never let that stop me from listening to BDP...

But I respect the reasoning behind SoWhat and others who have problems supporting certain artists......I've had to battle with my issues with GunsNRoses over the years, a group that I dig a lot....

Considering it was Low End era of their career they should have known MUCH better considering they had a 'hit' song previous album and were presumably touring/playing out.

Considering the tone of their career up to that point, deciding to go all in denigrating a group out of nowhere was just nuts. As much of a misguided fuckhead Lord Jamal is at least he tries to wrap his homophobia around afrocentric bullshit...Porgy is just pure venom.

it's hard to dismiss or excuse and i WANT to b/c i really dig Tribe.

that's why some sort of explanation and apology from Tip would be great.

fuck those 46 year olds for being immature at age 21, it doesnt matter that the song was never placed on an album that was available for purchase

seems totally reasonable

again - the fact that you're not on the same page w/me about something is a GOOD thing. if you agreed i'd have to rethink my position.

you saw hoopla and excitement about them and said "let me fuck up the fun"
for all I know you knew the song existed and waited for the right opportunity to troll

now, in hopes of this bullshit getting deleted:

A Tribe Called Quest made an anti-gay song 25 years ago
You said masturbating in front of children is okay last year

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12837846&mesg_id=12837846&listing_type=search#12837859

"LOVE IT MAYNE" - DJ DMD

>
>A Tribe Called Quest made an anti-gay song 25 years ago
>You said masturbating in front of children is okay last year
>
>http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12837846&mesg_id=12837846&listing_type=search#12837859
>

"i think we make too big a deal of public masturbation - even in front of kids"

lulz. word, my nigga?

da fuck I just read?

the sick horrors

Him being mad at a homophobic song, even if 25 years ago, has nothing to do with that post. You guys can snipe each other all day, but at least be honest about why you're doing so, lol

You guys can snipe each other
>all day, but at least be honest about why you're doing so,
>lol

I threw a grenade and said it was "in hopes of getting this bullshit deleted"

nonetheless, I think in both instances SoWhat is more of a troll than a hypocrite. it's perfectly fine to not be cool with the song, no one in here is cosigning homophobic messages

but dont pour a gallon of 25 year old piss on my parade when you said stupid shit in 2015

its a valid post. Its interesting when we are arguing/posting/debating about music quality across all eras are on the table, but this 'WTF?' moment in Tribes history is off limits.

Its like we can debate if the Bonita Applebaum remix or original is better, the moral validity of 25 year old songs (or even quality cause its objectively a crappy track in storytelling in comparison to lets say Luck of Lucien) are off limits, lol.

We would feel much different if it hit a little closer to home (someone mentioned Guns & Roses using the N word above) and if it didn't involve such a beloved band, imho that's where the hypocrisy creeps in.




> You guys can snipe each other
>>all day, but at least be honest about why you're doing so,
>>lol
>
>I threw a grenade and said it was "in hopes of getting this
>bullshit deleted"
>
>nonetheless, I think in both instances SoWhat is more of a
>troll than a hypocrite. it's perfectly fine to not be cool
>with the song, no one in here is cosigning homophobic
>messages
>
>but dont pour a gallon of 25 year old piss on my parade when
>you said stupid shit in 2015

he knew what he was doing when he made this, the same rise he sought to get saying he's glad Phife is dead elsewhere in the post

earlier this year I hung out with a well established music critic who knew of the song and mentioned how much hot water they would have been in had it come out. I didnt hear the song until an hour ago, it didnt sit well with me. Im not defending the song, Im giving an equally visceral response to slandering them over a never released demo given they made my favorite music of all time

obviously Phife's untimely passing is the elephant in the room..but even outside of the song he's made a couple of anti-gay comments about 'batty boys' lol.

He may be trolling but it's a legit troll; if Ted Nugget's 70's run is a pillar of rock and roll/basis for even some hip-hop songs. That nigga dies of testicular cancer, I dont think we would gasp at someone saying to fuck his life.

Sure, the singular point about Tribe is fine on it's
own, but the messenger ALWAYS matters, because the life
of the messenger tells you a lot about why they feel
that way about the message.

I think Atruhead's point is that dude doesn't actually
give a shit. He's just trying to get a rise out of
people.

And he got exposed.


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>
>Sure, the singular point about Tribe is fine on it's
>own, but the messenger ALWAYS matters, because the life
>of the messenger tells you a lot about why they feel
>that way about the message.
>
>I think Atruhead's point is that dude doesn't actually
>give a shit. He's just trying to get a rise out of
>people.
>
>And he got exposed.
>
>

not to mention the logic he use to excuse the behavior was - it could be a teachable moment... teach kids what NOT to do...

lol. that logic would excuse anything...including tribes song

He can't seem to keep his emotions and beliefs out of anything.

It's not true and it's a damaging accusation.

so i don't worry what these pearl-clutching halfwits have to say about it. LOL

1 i replied to a message so it's technically not mine

2 I'm pretty sure 'SoWhat' is not his name. Pretty sure that's a prerequisite for slander

3 i'm pretty sure most people would have a problem with and i quote

"but i'm not overly concerned about kids seeing someone masturbate. i'd be alarmed if i suspected he was going to touch any of the kids. this guy seemed more interested in touching himself. and i can't tell from your narrative if the kids could even see him. though if they could i wouldn't be too troubled - masturbation is part of life and kids either already know what it is or will know soon enough. it's a teachable moment in a way - b/c they should also be taught that masturbating in public is a bad idea and is something they should not do"

--so what

4 what did i misrepresent? his logic? lol

he wouldnt be troubled if the kids could see him? damn...

he doesnt say its a teachable moment? smfh

fucktards at best... & maybe something much worse

I intended to reply to Orbit's message.

And to suggest that there's nothing wrong with it,
or that there's some silver lining lesson that will
make the kids better, is to defend sexual abuse.

Sexual abuse terrorizes and traumatizes. A child seeing
a grownup jacking off can traumatize them.

Now, I don't think SoWhat actually thinks the things that he
said. But that is precisely Atruhead's point: SoWhat doesn't
think or believe anything he says. He probably likes attention,
which is fine, but often does so through moral policing. Can't
do that when you're minimizing child sexual abuse.


SoWhat should probably delete his account, find a new board
to get attention from, because he's done here.




----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqOF9BRl8Uc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Heg-OoKNhSc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRlyQi_k1w

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYpnINrZM_M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWbnGviamC8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcWzc5gduc0

I'm serious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=up-NPeekfCM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRH1tYD6bow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSJkMBMEwPk

>
>Sure, the singular point about Tribe is fine on it's
>own, but the messenger ALWAYS matters, because the life
>of the messenger tells you a lot about why they feel
>that way about the message.
>
>I think Atruhead's point is that dude doesn't actually
>give a shit. He's just trying to get a rise out of
>people.
>
>And he got exposed.
>
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

was already addressed

No message

:)

he makes it clear that he listens to at least a few groups. i assume the roots could be one, or de la.

bombard him with homophobic views.

>Punk ass hating motherfuckers had me fooled. Eyes wide open
>now. Fuck. Them.


Back in that time frame, this was pretty much the general sentiment in hiphop. There were many songs that said things like this and much worse.

You are really upset with a group of guys that made an offensive record 20 years ago and DIDNT RELEASE IT. SOOOO many other artist released songs with these same types of lyrics. I'm guessing you were or are likely a fan of some of them.

Questions:
Do you communicate today, the same way you communicated 20+yrs ago?

If not, do you tend to be more wreckless now or more considerate now?

Would it be "right" for someone to take something you "said" 20+yrs ago and say "F SoWhat! I cant believe he said that 20 yrs ago" today?

Of ALLLL of the terrible things that rappers have recorded and released on a song over the years, why did this song, that was never released (and was most likely never meant to be heard by anyone again), conjure up so much emotion with you?

Did the songs about murder make you this upset with a rapper?
Did the songs about mistreating and disrespecting women make you upset with a rapper?
Did the songs about calling women(black women especially)bitches and hoes make you upset with a rapper?
Did the songs about rappers selling poison(drugs) to people in their community make you upset with a rapper?
Did the songs about gang bangin' make you this upset with a rapper?

If not, why not?

If Tribe catches your wrath for this, then are you ready and willing to also apply that same anger to all of the other artist who are guilty of the items listed above?


It sounds like you've put Tribe on some sort of idol type pedestal.(big mistake)

Remember, they are humans.
Humans do dumb things. Often. ESPECIALLY YOUNG RAPPER HUMANS who happen to be superstars with money and access to all that the world has to offer.



I'm really just saying all of this to encourage you to remember to put yourself in the seat of the judged before you proceed to do the judging.

I understand your disappointment but it's not like Tribe has been the champion supporters of all things LGBT for the past 20yrs and you just suddenly uncovered the "real" Tribe.

They are HUMAN rappers and they just did what HUMAN rappers do/did back then.

Rap songs that used the F word, or said things about homosexuals.

Like, no other rappers seemed to have an ENTIRE song about it, with five different rappers taking turns bashing them. Gotta admit, it was pretty extreme.

>Rap songs that used the F word, or said things about
>homosexuals.
>
>Like, no other rappers seemed to have an ENTIRE song about it,
>with five different rappers taking turns bashing them. Gotta
>admit, it was pretty extreme.

True dat.

The thing is, everybody was talkin' about "Keep It Real", "Dont Bite", "Be Original".
Rappers were ALWAYS trying to push the envelope. Rappers always claimed to be "CNN for the streets" and always claimed to "Rap about reality" and "Rap about what I see" so, it's no shocker that they would have tried this concept out. They were doing what had not yet been done. They were doing what Tribe did. Being trailblazers. All the greats have had to make some duds and get out some of the bad ideas in order to get to the golden ones.

It just so happens that Tribe(or more likely Tribe's handlers/bosses) were not promoting Tribe as a "shock" act, so the concept was squashed. An nope, it totally would have in NO way fit that or any of there albums and it would have certainly ruin what eventually became a masterpiece.

And the fact that Tribe created the song is crazy. Like of all the groups in hip hop they'd be the last I'd think of when talking about a gay bashing song.

It doesn't really surprise me that he would have homophobic thoughts - especially at that time and at that stage in his life. It's not surprising when you factor who his close allies were (Brand Nubian, Busta, etc.) I am surprised that he would actually have this much hate and be cool with a song like this. Very big letdown. I don't care what age he was, that song was vile and hateful. My views on homosexuality weren't fully formed (and informed) quite yet in my late teens/early 20s, but I definitely didn't have that much hate or ignorance in my heart to put together a song like that.

Successful entertainers live an entirely different existence than most of us regular people.
I could totally see their thought process leading them to eventually decide to record this song.

Being young, drunk and high(not saying that I know for a fact that they were when they recorded this but it's likely in those times for those groups) can result in some crazy scenarios.

Furthermore, you are really, really trying to downplay how awful those lyrics are. It wasn't like it was just a lyric or verse dedicated to their hatred of homosexuals, it was an entire song shitting on all homosexuals. Contrary to what you believe, other groups in the same vein as ATCQ don't have such songs in their catalog. Maybe they do, I just don't recall other groups who portrayed themselves in the same manner as ATCQ making songs like this.

>Furthermore, you are really, really trying to downplay how
>awful those lyrics are. It wasn't like it was just a lyric or
>verse dedicated to their hatred of homosexuals, it was an
>entire song shitting on all homosexuals. Contrary to what you
>believe, other groups in the same vein as ATCQ don't have such
>songs in their catalog. Maybe they do, I just don't recall
>other groups who portrayed themselves in the same manner as
>ATCQ making songs like this.



He just might have an issue with it. That's why I ask him. I dont know and I await his response.

I assumed that because I don't recall him wilding out on any other groups like he did on Tribe.
My point being, Hip Hop has always had output that was extremely disrespectful and damaging to certain groups of individuals.
Why is this not just another example of that if all the other stuff is passable?

As far as other groups, I never said anything about groups in the vein of ATCQ. I was referring to hip hop artist in general.

I'm not attempting to down play how awful the content of the song is. I fully agree. They were totally out of line with this.

What I'm trying to get across is, he jumped out the window and said stuff like "F Tribe" "...they had me fooled" "...I spat on Phife's grave"...etc.
Acting like they put this song out. Somehow, he came to view Tribe as some infallible entity that walked on air and slept on water.
He made it sound like they've been LGBT advocates and have taken an active lead in the advancement of LGBT causes or something when that's not even remotely the case.

He really bugged out on the group's entire legacy because of something they said 20+yrs ago and (for whatever reason) did not release.

I guarantee that SoWhat has said something that he later realized that he should not have said. He'd rather not be treated like he treated Tribe I'm sure.

Anyway,after getting around to reading some of the post from others about what SoWhat said on that other topic, I realize that I'm wasting my time here addressing him because his perspective is clearly on some old otha notha type stuff. So that being said, I see why this leaked demo got up under his skin so bad.

ATCQ should feel lucky that record execs axed this song bc it may have destroyed their legacy. Not sure how to feel, but it definitely taints their image for me. I'm not damning them to eternity for misguided beliefs they held in their early 20s, but I'm a bit disturbed that their hatred for homosexuals ran this deep.

totally forgot about this song


People can, of course, be as outraged as they want. Song is awful both in execution and message. Dunno how much sense an apology makes for a song you never put out 20 something years ago but, hey.

That said, rap music, especially from that era is full of stuff like this.

Anyone here ever listened to Kool G Rap's "Hey, Mister" about beating women in the streets? 3 verses, no less!!!!

Fact is, lot of records I like from back then have cringeworthy moments of social commentary. If stuff like Cave Bitch, Black Korea, Dark Skin Girls (by Del) come on, I'm prolly gonna skip it immediately.



I also am a reggae music fan...so perhaps I am already attuned to the challenges posed by songs like this, at least as a heterosexual fan of the music.

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12985232&mesg_id=12985232&listing_type=search#12985351


http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12985232&mesg_id=12985232&listing_type=search#12985499


http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=12985232&mesg_id=12985232&listing_type=search#12985732


We all make mistakes yo

yup

might this demo not be them trying to assert themselves as hetero individuals?

They obviously did it in the worst way possible, but it kind of feels to me like they
might've been called out as 'gay' in the early native tongue days (Q-Tip has had these
rumours about him much longer still) and this was their way to assert their straightness?

I'm not trying to make up excuses for this piece of shit song, but the whole thing is so unlike Tribe i'm trying to grasp their motivations at the time

because there's obviously something else going
on here. Of course that doesn't matter if you're
the one being bashed, and that's understandable,
but this definitely comes off like they felt they
had something to prove.

And Q-Tip's verse was only topped in ugliness by Puba. Damn those were some hateful ass verses.

It was a massively shitty & offensive song and understandably hurtful coming from such a group.

but I don't think it's fair to act like ATCQ are some undercover bigots and aren't able to correct their behavior and move past mistakes that they've made.

If he doesn't wanna support them moving forward, that's fair. But SoWhat himself said he believes in redemption

Do you have some?

you should just keep it movin - and while you're at it, never listen to another song, watch another movie or TV show, read another book, visit another website, or eat another meal (that you don't cook for yourself) - I don't think any of the creators will meet your standards - i guarantee everyone has done some shit that you don't approve of that they have yet to apologize to you for

Stfu, bitch.

in GD saying Nate Parker is a rapist but will still support his movie and mocking people for being upset about it saying that Nate shouldn't have to pay for other people's crimes because that's not fair and he should be able to move on, but over here trying to blacklist Tribe over words on an unreleased record.

So if you & your friend actually rape a woman or your homeboy is accused of murdering his wife SoWhat will support you down the line, but don't say anything derogatory on an unreleased record or he'll ban you for life.

Has Tribe apologized?

Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure I could get you disbarred for shit you post on here.

you're a troll poster who stirred up some drama in stereotypical fashion over an issue you can play the victim on. Your campaign for an apology is bullshit.

An unreleased record that any person who would find it offensive and will only hear if they seek it out is more of an issue to you than actual crimes?

They're not right for making that song but we all know Black people are homophobic as hell and that's mostly due to religion more than anything else, but everybody talking about this wants to play dumb and leave that part out imo ( I haven't seen anybody mention directly ). We know all the factors that could have led to them making that song, but once the song is recorded the only action that could take place has already occurred.

The song was scrapped & if it had been released it would have been well known enough that the controversy might have compelled them to issue an apology a long time ago, so this witch hunt is bullshit. One of these people has passed on and can't speak for himself, & the rest are clearly living a positive life so if their actions don't warrant forgiveness what kind of self-centered ass deserves an apology?

Not to mention we have no clue how the actual process of barring it from the album went down and what message the label may have gotten across to them so they would know why this record shouldn't be released.

It's almost like you did this to stir up drama on the internet as a whole just to take credit for it down the line, you really seem like that much of a troll.

We can't speculate too much on how the remaining members of Tribe feel but there's plenty of people dropping evidence here that you are a troll and backward as hell.

I typed more than I meant to lol

>Punk ass hating motherfuckers had me fooled. Eyes wide open
>now. Fuck. Them.

And I don't defend anything in the song. That said I will continue to listen to and enjoy tribe.

The things they said in that song were terrible.