http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/jimmy-jam-and-terry-lewis-our-life-in-15-songs-20151009/janet-jackson-when-i-think-of-you-1986-20151008

Quote from Jimmy Jam:

"Q-Tip was a part of that record. J Dilla had done a remix of a Brand New Heavy song that had a feel to it I just loved. I thought if I could come up with something with that feel with Janet, and then put a Joni Mitchell sample over it, that would be a magic combination, taking things from different eras and weaving it together."

WTF? I remember an audio interview with Dilla where he referred to "some funny stuff" going on with that record, and the general consensus has always seemed to be that Dilla and/or Tip did the beat, and Jam & Lewis took credit for it, then threw Dilla a bone by letting him do a remix.

So which is it? paging Quest . . . . .


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www.mattferran.com

I was actually thinking about posting this yesterday.

So the remix samples Keith Jarrett. I'm almost fucking positive that Raphael Saadiq wasn't flipping Keith Jarrett records like that, in 1996 or any other year. The drums sound like vintage Jay Dee, but on the promo 12", the drum programming is actually credited to some other guy (wish I could remember his name, I'll update when I get back to my crates).

So either Saadiq sampled, replayed or, by pure coincidence, played the exact same notes as the Keith Jarrett record…..AND had somebody come in to program some bouncy, Ummah-style drums?

I'm not even gonna speak about the bassline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFpRX1xVhwY

That entire beat is just TOO Dilla for me to believe otherwise. Or maybe this was another situation similar to what you just posted. Another producer shamelessly imitating the Jay Dee sound.

Then again, Raphael Saadiq was supposed to be the fourth member of The Ummah, so let me stop before I talk in circles.

Any thoughts?

QUEST ARE YOU READING THIS???

I mean, are we supposed to take the defendant's word on this one?

Ha. i'm just the messenger here. i don't believe for a second that Jimmy OR Terry made that beat. and i'm a *huge* fan/admirer of them.

nah, that's some Ummah shit right there.


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www.mattferran.com

Love Flyte Tyme.
But I side with Yancey.

he isn't lying.

To me....it isn't the type song where I say "nah, that IS Dilla, 100% no question" such as a Slum "Players" where the sample was manipulated in a wild way.

If Tip is involved... why couldn't it just be Tip and Jam & Terry. Q tip could've definitely made the vibe of that record dilla-esque

that they made a Dilla inspired beat. And Dilla always would say
something is funny if he thought someone was "biting".

That's a possibility I never ruled out. They're accomplished enough
I think to do a sound alike joint. The worse case scenario is possible
too.

Just saying...

Janet, Jimmy, & Terry heard J-Dilla's remix of Brand New Heavies' "Saturday Night", which they liked a lot, so since Q-Tip became friends with Janet after they did the movie Poetic Justice, so they called on Q-Tip to ask who did the beat and to bring over some beats and vibe, well Q-Tip brought over some beats of his and J-Dilla's they heard a beat tape by him and liked one of them, so they asked Q-Tip if they could use that beat and recreate it for a new song (which they did but I think all they did was layered his beat in the back and put some of their production on top), but some reason Q-Tip didn't tell J-Dilla until after the fact.

So later on after the song is done, Dilla sort of get credit to solve this issue, so Janet, Jimmy, Terry, & the label let J-Dilla & Shaheed do their own remixes on the maxi singles (cds & 12"), even though Q-Tip gets it cause he's rapping on the song.

I still think Q-Tip did J-Dilla wrong for letting Jam & Lewis cover his beat and not letting him get credit for it to begin with, but I also notice that for a few years Q-Tip puts his, J-Dilla, & Shaheed's production under the UMMAH name half the time to get work for the crew; like on the Bush Babies 2nd album, there is two songs produced by UMMAH and one features Q-Tip but we all know J-Dilla did production for both but anytime he did production he would get solo credit instead of UMMAH.

And you get bigger rates for people under you by doing that. Also Tip has always been into the "we succeed and fail as a unit" thing. Thats why all the Tribe stuff was done under that name whether it was he or Shaheed on the boards.
I understand why Dilla wanted to do his own thing, but it wasn't shady practice.

them calling it Jay Dee's Revenge Mix might be because of it.

not Saturday Night. but yeah, your account seems like the most plausible scenario. no way Flyte Tyme did those drums, with that bounce.


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www.mattferran.com

the Saturday Night remix was just a take on Marvin's Got To Give it Up...

now imagine if THAT joint got big like Blurred Lines? Would marvin's estate be in dick mode years waaaay before?

On Busta's The Coming album production is credited under The Ummah too but is credited to K. Fareed on "Ill Vibe" and J. Yancey on "Still Shining" and "Keep It Moving". Not sure why it wasn't done this way on the Gravity album.

And by the end of the ummah it had runs its course anyway. Dilla had Tip to thank for his success and I'm sure he would've done it all over again.

>And by the end of the ummah it had runs its course anyway.
>Dilla had Tip to thank for his success and I'm sure he
>would've done it all over again.

As far was who actually did what and what caused its fracture.

I mean, these cats produced for Janet, Whitney, Michael AND Mariah. I could only imagine what the discography would have looked like if they had stayed together longer.

the more it's getting clearer (to me at least)..

Tip was on the the drums prolly 50% of the time (Dilla other 50%).

Dilla was on the bass 100% of the time.....

Sha was on the melodies for the really pretty ones, Dilla did the sampling otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPTQh_76-Nk

Most cases, we would just give credit to Dilla, but a lot of those Ummah joints were more collaborative than we thought.

Main point tho, we all get why Tip approached it the way he did, but still woulda been nice to know the real story.

Cons opened my eyes when he said on that JuanEp podcast a couple weeks back that Shaheed produced 'Crew' and 'Seperate/Together'.

Oooooh...so that's that Shaheed sound, huh?

Light bulb went off in my mind when he said that.

>So later on after the song is done, Dilla sort of get credit
>to solve this issue, so Janet, Jimmy, Terry, & the label let
>J-Dilla & Shaheed do their own remixes on the maxi singles
>(cds & 12"), even though Q-Tip gets it cause he's rapping on
>the song.

I believe the Dilla remix of Got Til It's Gone is titled Dilla's Revenge. I have a copy of a double 12 inch collection of remixes for Got Til It's gone. From what I remember, it's mainly house remixes. I mainly copped it at the time because it would pressed on clear vinyl.

>I believe the Dilla remix of Got Til It's Gone is titled
>Dilla's Revenge. I have a copy of a double 12 inch collection
>of remixes for Got Til It's gone. From what I remember, it's
>mainly house remixes. I mainly copped it at the time because
>it would pressed on clear vinyl.

Version 1:
01. Radio Edit
02. Mellow Mix
03. Nellee Hooper Master Mix
04. Mellow Mix Edit
05. Album Version


that one?

i need to find the dillas revenge version.

>
>>I believe the Dilla remix of Got Til It's Gone is titled
>>Dilla's Revenge. I have a copy of a double 12 inch
>collection
>>of remixes for Got Til It's gone. From what I remember, it's
>>mainly house remixes. I mainly copped it at the time because
>>it would pressed on clear vinyl.
>
>Version 1:
>01. Radio Edit
>02. Mellow Mix
>03. Nellee Hooper Master Mix
>04. Mellow Mix Edit
>05. Album Version
>
>
>that one?
>
>i need to find the dillas revenge version.


Vinyl One/Side One:
Def Club Mix
Def Radio Mix

Vinyl Two/Side Two:
Armand Van Helden Speedy Garagez Mix

Vinyl Two/Side One:
Nellee ooper Master Mix
Jimmy Jam Mellow Mix
Ummah's Uptown Saturday Night Mix

Vinyl Two/Side Two
Original Extended version
Ummah Jay Dee's Revenge Mix
LP Instrumental

Record industry people are shady...

The drums and bass definitely sound like Jay Dee shit circa 96-97. The filtered bass reminded me most of "get a hold" (the kicks were less ghost note-y than what I think of as Dilla-esque during that time, though).

But honestly, regarding their beats during that time period, if I didn't have the liner notes for both BR&L and TLM, i wouldn't know which ones were "Dilla's" and which ones were "Tip's".

Tip said he asked him if he wanted to send something to Janet, and he gave him that one. Considering that he made it happen, I'd believe him over Jam and Lewis.

That being said I really don't think them dudes would take credit for that track if they didn't do it themselves. I'm not 100 on it but I'm saying Jam & Lewis did that. Like all yall that think Dilla did that it's not 100 percent.

I can see them having been inspired by Dilla's work. I can see them adding their stuff on top of a beat he made (I suspect theyd credit him as they've credited others they've worked with). But that record as we hear it is not a Dilla production. If anything he co-produced.

you're crazy. Tip and Dilla both said it's his beat.

>Tip and Dilla both said it's his beat.

Even if they "covered" a Jay Dee beat, like has been proposed, it's still a Jay Dee beat that he should've received at least partial credit for.

All that and the fact that it sounds nothing like Jam and Lewis, before or after.



"1) God doesn't exist

2) And anyhow he's stupid"
—Philip K. Dick

http://austinato.bandcamp.com

http://www.discogs.com/lists/Favorites-of-2015/222933

>All that and the fact that it sounds nothing like Jam and
>Lewis, before or after.

Is all that needs to be said...

Lots of folks here are talking about that Brand New Heavies remix and linking to that song I don't hear it. Got till It's Gone kinda goes well with Once Again. I still find it weird that most folks champion Dilla but think Beats Rhymes and Life and The Love Movement are just okay albums but that's another story. I love both those Tribe joints btw.

of the song? shady no matter how u slice it

>Lots of folks here are talking about that Brand New Heavies
>remix and linking to that song I don't hear it. Got till It's
>Gone kinda goes well with Once Again. I still find it weird
>that most folks champion Dilla but think Beats Rhymes and Life
>and The Love Movement are just okay albums but that's another
>story. I love both those Tribe joints btw.

...find one track either pre or post "Got Till Its Gone" produced by Jam and Lewis that sounds even remotely similar to "Got Till Its Gone".

I bet they probably felt like

Jam and Lewis:"Jay Dee? Oh yeah. We're cool with Jermaine. I'm in Atlanta all the time. Let just call him about the beat..."

TIP: No. Not SoSo Def JD, Jay Dee from Detroit. A producer I'm working with on stuff.

Jam and Lewis: Oh...wait who? Never mind.

Jam to Lewis-"We'll just four thousand and eighty the kid. If he complains, we'll toss him a couple grand and let him remix something"


So I really just wrote that so that I could properly use 4080 as a verb but on the real, I just can't see Jam and Lewis being solely responsible for this track.

I wish the original beat tape version was floating around somewhere for us "regular" people to hear.

You tellin me Got Till It's Gone is on a different planet from That's The Way Love goes. Don't let me get in the way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KN6PoMDI-s8

^^ song killed the original to me at least.

Dilla's remix is a mess that robs the record of the charm that makes the original great. The remix sounds like the soundtrack for waking up from anesthesia. It makes me dizzy and uncomfortable. I just want to lie down and turn off everything. Not pleasant at all. I've never liked it.

A 15 (ok) reply...

Sigh

shit sounds like NOTHING jam + lewis have ever done, either before or since. can't believe there's actually argument over this.