>That's really *not* the only real answer though. That's a
>bullshit answer that you're playing as a strategic move to
>justify your own (subjective) belief that he is a "more
>creative" artist, something that can't be quantified, at least
>not in any substantial degree.


C'mon man. I'm not here to justify anything. I'm referring to an interview about
his nomination for Grammy with the Glasper Experiment. He was JUICED to be
considered an Alternative artist... so much so that he said he'd finally hit his mark
as a musician. That's what he'd been aiming for his whole career. This is all I'm
talking about. I really don't have anything to justify, as his Alternative aims and
classification are a FACT.



>See above. People are talking like Bilal's on some John Cage
>shit... he's really not. He's not *that* "weird." I agree that
>his shit doesn't fit contemporary formats, but it's not
>because his music is *soooooo* next-level that nobody, like,
>you know, *really gets him*....



Read my comments in here, man. I'm definitely not saying he's "next-level".
I've said about 2 or 3 times that his creativity is to his detriment as far as I'm concerned.
The important this here is that we agree that his music doesn't fit into contemporary formats.
His music doesn't really fit into ANY format, and he prefers it that way. I wish it would
a lot of the time. I mentioned the example of "Back To Love" elsewhere.



>I think I see what you're hearing here in terms of
>"derivative," but it's a terribly imprecise word for a rather
>awful measure of comparison. I think you're right that you can
>hear D's influences more immediately, more clearly, for sure.
>But D's not playing an imitation game in his work (at least
>beyond Brown Sugar) ... the influences are filtered, reworked,
>and ultimately spun into something strikingly new.


This is kinda where you lose me (most with Black Messiah), because I can't pick
one song on there that sounds like something STRIKINGLY new. Above, a cat admitted
that he was trying to pick which Prince era "Charade" came from, but then decided
it sounded completely new... I mean, c'mon. Ultimately, I love the hell out of the
song, so it doesn't matter one way or the other.


>(For all the claims of derivative that folks like Payton might make,
>there really aren't many songs out there that *actually* sound
>like anything D's put together on Black...).


I addressed this "one particular song" notion elsewhere as well. In a nutshell, you
can jack a style without jacking a particular song. I mean which Tupac song was
Lil Zane jacking? Did it matter? You just knew that was Pac's style. Charade is Prince's style
as was Untitled... which song does Untitled sound like though?


>Ultimately, they make two very different types of creations.
>And ultimately, they are two very different types of artists.
>It's depressing that an accomplished musician resorted to x >
>y arguments and in the process overlooked that fact. This
>thread is about as unnecessary as they come, but the Lesson
>has always liked a good x is better than y post, even if know
>(deep down in our heart of hearts) that ranking artists that
>most acknowledge are good is a fool's errand... fun, maybe,
>but far from "intelligent music discussion" ... precisely
>because you have to rely on attempts to measure things that
>cannot (and should not!) be measured (like "creativity").


I agree with a large chunk of this. And that's what we're doing, having a fun discussion...
at least it's fun for me, until people turn into 12 yr olds with namecalling and other
ridiculousness. I mean, I interact with human beings OFFLINE, so a friendly disagreement
is fun stuff to me. *shrugs*