It's needs more young talented acts who approach the business as professionals.

And when I say 'black music' now days I'm making no reference to race.. that ship has long sailed.
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>And when I say 'black music' now days I'm making no reference
>to race.. that ship has long sailed.

I'm sorry, I have MAD appreciation for all the young white brothers and sisters today making excellent "black" music, but some things have to come from "the source."

It's like Chris Rock said recently of modern civil rights activists vs. MLK and Malcolm etc... The guys today seem like they're staging a revival while MLK was producing an original play.

We need more "original play" and I think it has to come from within the Black community.

'Black' music today comes in all shades and colors. Bruno doesn't fit into either the white or black camps but when he sets out to make a 'black' record he usually knocks it out the park. Why would I expect anyone to make music that's moving me just based on their race? We're so many generations removed now that a black kid in Philly could be more removed from my music culturally than say a latino or white kid in LA. The talk about this or that being "authentic" is almost always artificial. Give me the music and I'll base my feelings on that and only that.. trying to figure out intentions or motivations is a weird game I have zero interest in.
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then I changed it to 'non-black' before settling on "white"

Bottom line: there are certain fundamental aspects of this music that spring from African American culture (and I am not talking about Black African or Caribbean... I mean, American Negro) and I think it's still important to nurture that source so that we don't end up where we ended up with rock.

"I think it's still important to nurture that source"

and I think it's still important to nurture that source
>so that we don't end up where we ended up with rock.

Please tell me about all these black *rock* artists. Rock is a direct byproduct of the source you are talking about being nurtured from other perspectives. Rock itself wa4s never abandonded; *rock'n'roll* (read:50's R&B) was nurtured and it resulted in soul, funk etc. rock (tm) is really not part of the same lineage but there was never any "abandoning" going on either-just rock'n'roll/R&B being nurtured from two different perspectives...

I have a hard time understanding what you are trying to say with the above quote...

I'll answer your question later, Jakob.

I'm speaking on a style or styles of music whereas you are talking about music that comes out of a community. I can see your points inside that framework but that becomes more social or political.. which clearly has (or should have) a place. Doesn't assure the sounds they produce are going to be appealing to me. Still comes back to the music itself.

Good to 'see' you though man

Peace

>Good to 'see' you though man
>
>Peace

>I can see
>your points inside that framework but that becomes more social
>or political.. which clearly has (or should have) a place.
>Doesn't assure the sounds they produce are going to be
>appealing to me. Still comes back to the music itself.

"Black music" at its best has always been political.

If you can bring it all together hell yeah.. but there are plenty of message records that come up short when compared to those of a more vapid nature.

For instance, Motown steered clear of overt messages and political stances during its colden age, but Motown was still fiercely political.

The Cosby Show never addressed racism, police brutality or any other hot-button political issues, but it was one of the most political expression of black pop culture during the 80s.

Early 80s R&B (or "boogie") was never really saying anything lyrically, but musically it WAS political.

"Early 80s R&B (or "boogie") was never really saying anything lyrically, but musically it WAS political."

I'll check back next week

I'll be here (and I haven't been much, of late)

because I agree with what I *think* KAP Dogg is saying here...

in those eras especially, where a sort of "overt" blackness was suppressed in the mainstream of America (segregationist 1950s, and the 1950s fetishism that ran rampant in the Reagan era), daring to be black w/o looking over your shoulder was the same as raising your closed fist to the sky.

While all "boogie" music then (and especially now) wasn't made by Black people per se, that musical form is certainly "Black", and choosing that path in that era definitely was defiant IMO.

it's kind of like what you've said about being against MTV and "the other side of the radio" back in the '80s...

i don't think it's a Black thing that folks back in the day made good Black music.
i always hate reading ppl like Keith Richards talk about their favorite blues artists.

they make it sound as if Black suffering made those guys great,
whereas he had to practice in order to be able to play Black music convincingly.

I feel that had a white child grew up in a Black environment, hearing Black songs,
learning from Black mentors, their sound would be...

well, Black.


i don't think there is something inherent in Black ppl's DNA that creates soul.

well, maybe i should back up.
because being Black DOES put you in a unique situation that
will influence a part of your music. so maybe there's something to the Race element.

but i typically don't like the way ppl say it.
(not that you were saying it in the way i don't like.)

ie it's social

I actually wanted to say something about how "coming from the community" could also include a white kid who grew up in or near "the hood" but I thought that might be getting ahead of myself.

I'm not suggesting that great Black music is something that emerges spontaneously from Black people just because they're Black... but it's ridiculous to deny that there are distinct social ingredients that make the music from a particular social context what it is.

So yeah... black musicians have to work hard and practice.

The conservatory-trained cellist works hard and practices too... maybe even more than the average Black blues player.

But the average conservatory-trained cellist couldn't play the blues with feeling even if you wrote it down on the sheet music for him. And that has nothing to do with how much he has or hasn't experienced actual suffering in his lifetime.

i agree.

Hope everything been cool with you and yours

I don't think that the music industry is set up today for a so-called Black music savior...

so I don't think it's possible that could happen..


and yes we do need more young innovative..and talented cats doing things in the game..... there are some out there today, but it would be nice if some could break through into the so-called mainstream so that Black music could have a place higher in popular culture than the current minstrel show, and reality tv fodder it has become today in the mainstream.

The idea of this or that act being 'mainstream' doesn't even cross my mind any more. More and more people are creating their own 'streams' and rejecting the limited choice methods we all grew up with. You and Kap used to argue a lot about the idea of a modern day 'chitlin circuit'... well over the last couple years I've seen more acts than I can count carve out a living by recording to promote, then going out and working for their check. It's not putting them on the mega star level or anything but then not many in the 'mainstream' are getting paid like that either.. for every Beyonce there are dozens and dozens of signed acts struggling. More and more wise up every day to the fact the old model only benefits the very few at the top.. it's a lot like the rest of this country's economy when you think about it.

>It's needs more young talented acts who approach the business
>as professionals.

a "savior" now is exactly what the industry would want... more pigeonholing

>a "savior" now is exactly what the industry would want... more
>pigeonholing

Cats are finally figuring out a way to work outside the old model.. a 'savior' is a way to promote and prop up the old ways.

black people need a savior

But that's a whole other topic

dont know where that came from but

alrighty

dont count in such matters

bug off

still can't wrap my 6 ounces around god needing a savior tho

because you can't understand the lessons

because your paradigm is Eurocentric

and as follows your ontology, epistemology, nature of logic (diunital vs dichotomous) and axiology differ

but u won't understand any of that

so

bug off

man that knows he knows something knows he knows nothing at all

and i already said i couldn't wrap my mind around it before you came with the shaming techniques

i'm late for coffee at the Country Club & gotta get a refill on my depression meds tho so i'll holla lol

said the man from a different species

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=2912062&mesg_id=2912062&page=#2912495

whiteman musta wrote these liners

Matana Roberts is one of the most important Black musicians of our time yet remains a virtual unknown in the black community.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

i think dude is talented mind you. but i digress...

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

or any song he's requested to play on his youtube channel and flawlessly replaying it with his own phrasing from merely one listen on his smartphone.

>flawlessly replaying it with his own phrasing from merely one
>listen on his smartphone.

but i'll play along. how is terrence getting down in his local keyboard shop an expression of the black condition?

talented yes. black yes. but translate that to a modern expression of the black condition vis a vis his music not using it to compare and contrast with other black artists.

█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." � Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

I agree..black music doesn't need a savior
Black music (soul/r&b) needs to focus on black music
However it's virtually impossible when these acts are forced to dance whatever dance sir nose and the noses (execs) tell them to.

Those days are over and they should be
Yet most of their audience still rely on archaic methods of hearing the music like radio or satellite radio.
There's a new way to do it while respecting the foundation and moving forward.

.

^^ see what i did there?

someone who makes music and operates abiding to standards which were abandoned by Black musical acts.

i touched on this concept in my "how do we go about re-introducing lost dimensions into Black music" post in 2012:

http://board.okayplayer.com/okp.php?az=show_mesg&forum=5&topic_id=2686224&mesg_id=2686224&page=

but wouldn't you say a savior of music doesn't just "abide" by musical standards?
if they are just abiding by the standards, they can't be a savior.

saviors may come from a TRADITION of the greats,
but they have to break the rules and make new ones.

ie; James Brown. Pharell. MAYBE d'angelo's 2nd album, etc.
(i said maybe D'angelo b/c he is not necessarily an innovator, but he may have been one.)

but there hasn't been a new act in Black music who set new precedents in greatness (in terms of talent) in decades.

and taps into the idea, that is as old as black american music itself, that the bulk of the music is mindless and apolitical and what black music/musicians need to do more of is get mad, get political and Speak About Whats Really Going On. Enter the lone musician willing to take a stand and be different and do what more of his peers should be doing: d'angelo.

you can be mainstream and still have a edge and do your thing.

Michael Jackson took the best of yesteryear and today and made it his own and never stopped aspiring for greatness. you gotta have that attitude and as you said it best stay professional
and also respect the craft, gift and the time and the audience whom embraces you.

the music and its voices prior must always be respected and in time may the same be bestowed unto you as well.

Farrakhan said that at a Saviors day years ago..

I'll take that for now.

That's really the problem


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O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

They just need a better support and development structure