As we proceed... thanks to everyone participating in this. A lot of folks are putting some real thought in to their revisits. Making me wanna step my game up. Last time around we had a lot of previsits... maybe more previsits than revisits, but those quick write-ups and the context they provide are cool too. If you haven't revisited Illadelph Halflife (aka Infidel Hellfire), you can go back and do that but we're moving on. I did see the suggestions to revisit Common's catalog next and I'm down with that idea. I'll probably see what everyone thinks as we near the end of The Roots' catalog. So, we've arrived at Things Fall Apart, which was released 15 years and 3 days ago.

Two rules:
1. Over the next 7 days give Things Fall Apart 3-5 listens
2. Come back here with your thoughts.




The Roots: Things Fall Apart
Released: February 23rd 1999

01. Act Won...Things Fall Apart (0:54)
02. Table of Contents (Parts 1 & 2) (3:37)
03. The Next Movement (3:53)
04. Step into The Realm (3:27)
05. The Spark (3:53)
06. Dynamite! (4:48)
07. Without a Doubt (4:15)
08. Ain't Sayin' Nothin' New (4:34)
09. Double Trouble (6:23)
10. Act Too...The Love of My Life (4:55)
11. 100% Dundee (3:56)
12. Diedre Vs. Dice (0:47)
13. Adrenaline! (4:29)
14. 3rd Acts: ? Vs. Scratch 2... Electric Boogaloo (0:51)
15. You Got Me (4:14)
16. Don't See Us (5:22)
17. The Return To Innocence Lost (11:55)
18. Act Fore...The End? (0:05)

I've already been listening to it multiple times since the 15th anniversary of its release was a few days ago, so I can share my thoughts now.

As I said in the subject line, it's their best album top to bottom. Best lyrically. Best musically. It also features the last "great" Malik B verses that I've ever heard. And many of Black Thought's best verses ever. It's their best known and highest selling as well.

It's also, for lack of better terms, their most "hip-hop," boom-bap album. I always feel like the perception of this album is weird due to "You Got Me", maybe "Act Too," and maybe it's proximity in release to D'Angelo's album. People seem to see it as a sorta "Neo-Soul" extension type album, but it's got most of the hardest, grittiest shit the Roots ever released. I mean, "Step into the Realm"? "Without a Doubt"? "Double Trouble"? "100% Dundee"? "Adrenaline"? "Don't See Us"? It really doesn't get much better for a die-in-wool backpacker like myself.

A few other random thoughts on some of the tracks:

> 01. Act Won...Things Fall Apart (0:54)

I mean, the half is a tribute to an obscure track by The Alliance. How fucking great is that? Dirty, muddy, grimy and all that other ill shit.


> 10. Act Too...The Love of My Life (4:55)

Manages to still be heartfelt without being corny. Love the musically of the track.

> 11. 100% Dundee (3:56)

First verse is my favorite Thought verse ever. And in my top 10 verses ever.

> 13. Adrenaline! (4:29)

Can't remember if this 12" or Jay-Z's "Reservoir Dogs" dropped first, but it stands as great intro to Beanie. So much potential and hunger back then.

> 16. Don't See Us (5:22)

Feel like this is one of their most-oft ignored singles. Great wordplay and I'm a sucker for those pass-the-mic-back-and-forth type of tracks.

> 17. The Return To Innocence Lost (11:55)

Worst song on the album. Embarassing to listen to now. I wouldn't even include it on my iPod if it wasn't for the bonus track. Fortunately, this is the last Ursula Rucker track they have on the album.

Bonus: I'm Still Out Deah.

Dope spacey revisit of one of their best tracks on Organix.

I don't know that I agree with that, pre-listen, but I'm excited to give the album some burn for the first time since I wore it out years and years and years ago. I played the album until I was literally just sick of hearing it.

may not be people's favorite, but it is their best album.

If I’m not mistaken, it’s their biggest selling album.

It’s that album that did great critically and commercially....but not so well commercially to the point where “that” type of fan feels the need to turn on it because it’s too popular.

Always felt like it would win in a poll of Roots fans for favorite album.

To me it’s clearly their best, and honestly I’d put it up there against almost any album in hip hop history.

its hard to fault them as things fall apart was my first roots album so i will never truly get what it was like to hear illadelph, live with then then get things fall apart.

i think a couple of their newest records give tfa a run for its money but that is not a popular opinion lol

Haven't gave this album a full spin for awhile now so it will be dope to revisit and write down my feelings/thoughts.

I remember when & where I purchased it,
first time I listened to it,
it was my introduction to Erykah Badu
it was the same year BOBS blew my mind
it brought me to okp

> 03. The Next Movement (3:53)
> 08. Ain't Sayin' Nothin' New (4:34)
> 13. Adrenaline! (4:29)
> 15. You Got Me (4:14)
>
>
are my jams!

I remember hearing "Don't See Us" on 88.5. Knew I was buying the album from that moment. I will be back with more to add after I revisit the album.

"double trouble" just might be my all-time favorite roots track.

it hits the sweetspot between smooth, pretty, and funky.

and back in 99, i wasn't really FEELING feeling mos until this song.

deep depressing time for me, personally. but this song was the one bright spot in my life.

I was in Laughlin Nevada with my grandmother when TFA came out. I was 19. I wanted to buy it on CD, but I would have had to wait three days until I got back home to listen to it, so I bought the cassette so I could listen to it instantly in my grandmother's car. I would sit in her car for literally hours on end playing the album all the way through, then repeat. It is by far the roots most perfect album. nothing skip worthy in the least. I own all five covers on CD, the vinyl, all the singles on vinyl and CD, I have the poster framed (also have DYWM framed too). i even have a promotional CD that has Don't See Us listed under its' original name (Peas & Cues).

To me, TFA is the roots best album title, best album cover (not even arguable), their best singles (next movement/you got me), best videos besides What They Do, best liner notes, and of course, best selling album. I was glad to hear the album finally was certified platinum, altho I feel it should have been platinum same year it came out. I remember being so happy that the album debuted with almost 200,000 copies sold. I also remember watching the grammy's and going nuts when the roots won for You Got Me.

At this point in time, I was a HUGE roots fan. I bought every magazine they were even mentioned in. I went to every single show they did in or near Los Angeles. I've said before that DYWM is my personal favorite roots album, but I need to amend that statement. DYWM and TFA are equally my favorite roots albums. probably always will be. TFA is on that short list of albums where I know every single lyric to every single song.


1. Act Won - Musically, DYWM has my favorite intro, but TFA has the roots best intro. I do happen to love the musical background of Act Won though, just not as much as There's Something Going On.

2. Table of Contents Part 1 - I love how the beat really comes in fully as soon as Black Thought begins rhyming. "...last seven years on tour without resting..." damn Thought killed it.

3. Table of Contents Part 2 - Malik really came into his own on TFA imho. I love both beats, but I prefer Part 2's beat slightly over Part 1's. Malik's verse is almost as dope as Thought's.

4. The Next Movement - Classic. If your head doesn't bob to this shit, you are dead. One of my favorite Roots choruses ever. The video was amazing. The Jazzies are so underrated on this song. Their background singing really fills out the song. and DJ Jazzy Jeff on the cuts?!?!? This song gives me the same feeling that cuts like T.R.O.Y. give me. That giddy, "oh shit this is my joint" feeling. I smile every time this comes on.

5. Step Into the Realm - Another great chorus. Malik continues to excel. The same way that Thought stepped it up from DYWM to IH, Malik stepped it up from IH to TFA imo.

6. The Spark - Got damn this album has nothing but great choruses. Up to this point, Malik owned TFA as far as I was concerned (Thought would take the album back after the Spark tho). Malik has maybe his best line ever "look guy, i walk around a little edgy already..." and a few more great lines...."i didn't make Hajj yet, but that's my next project.." "Impact like a buckle being swung from off a belt." I love how Malik says the ending "This is what its all about..."

7. Dynamite - Woah. That guitar. I do remember people thinking the chorus was "Touch this elephant dynamite.." LOL. I never heard that tho. Thought and Dice kill it. Chorus is simple, but effective. "...two extremes collide like Jekyll and Hyde..." I love how the beat rides out too.

8. Without A Doubt - I love Quest's drums. Love the Schooly D shout out. Dope verses from Thought. The beat that comes 3 minutes in (plus Quest on the vocals) IS MY SHIT!!! "it's the roots crew yall yall yall yall yall..."

9. Ain't Sayin Nothin New - Great background vocals from Dice Raw. Another great chorus. Dice Raw's second verse is his best ever. As dope as Thought is on this, Dice owned this song imho. "shove a mic in your mouth like Ted Dibiase" "But you come out wavin a white flag; that's why I just back slap that ass like Shaq did Ostertag." HAHAHAHAHA that shit was fucking hilarious when it came out. My favorite line from Thought is "No doubt, wherever you dwell, that's where the bomb fell, Exploding from the imperial en-sem-ble, for real."

10. Double Trouble - I would love to hear the version with Kweli, but I'm perfectly happy with Thought and Mos on some Run-DMC back and forth shit. Mos kills it with "I shot the sheriff, the deputy, and head of bank treasury, So mounties in the county got a BIG bounty stressin me..." Great chorus. Mos' outro is hilarious. Hub's bass is sick!

11. Act Too (Love of My Life) - Simply beautiful. Black Thought and Common both spit equally amazing verses. The finger snaps, the bass, the background singing, the chorus, the fucking violins at the end (OMFG). I have a hard time deciding who was doper on this. I love Thought's verse, but I think Common's was slightly more powerful. Seriously, the ending is so sonically beautiful.

12. 100% Dundee - Introduced the word Dundee into a bunch of kids' lexicons, including mine. Rahzel is otherworldly amazing, but Kamal's keys are so fucking underrated. Black Thought murders this song with his opening line, plus "throwing your verse like a javelin," "my man sport the fro like What's Happening," and of course" "lyrically calculus in this arithmetic hip hop metropolis." Again with the dope choruses. Malik is no slouch though. "you ain't a killer when you probably Teddy Ruxpin soft" HAHAHAHAHA

13. Diedre vs. Dice - It is criminal that this wasn't turned into a full song. CRIMINAL.
My only complaint on this whole album. "yall ain't shit but sticky shit on the bottom of timberlands..."

14. Adrenaline - Scott Storch with the dope as fuck keys. Some might say that Beanie killed this, and I understand that feeling, but I always felt that everyone came equally strong on this. Everyone has at least one super quotable line.

15. 3rd Acts - Love how Scratch sounds on this, especially at the end "ahhh"

16. You Got Me - The Classic, and what's dope is it's been changed up a little several times live, and always sounded doper. Would love to hear Eve do her verse live once, but that'll probably never happen (they both were on the same bill together in San Diego years ago, and I thought maybe she'd come out for her verse, but alas she did not). The breaking up of Quest's drums at the end was a brilliant touch.

17. Don't See Us - Love how the drums come in. Love the chorus. Just a great album cut with dope rhymes (thought I think Dice's second verse was the best verse on the song) "i'm not the average savage that curse queens.." I love the guitar work by Spanky. Underrated, but it really fills out the song and gives it it's soul imho.

18. The Return to Innocence Lost - The sound of the typewriter is cool as fuck. I love that. The strings that come in just after the 1 minute mark are so dope. Ursula's best poem. I absolutely love this and thought it was VERY powerful. "mommy's little survivor...like..her."

19. Act Fore - The beginning with Quest and Scratch is hilarious. I love how Scratch speaks. The beat is so tough. One of those perfect "If you can't freestyle to this, you can't freestyle" beats.

"I'm barging in like excuse, I beg your pardon
To crush carbon copy MC's wit clone jargon
Move the crowd to leave the microphone sparkin
Leave you caught inside the lines of my page beneath the margin"




Things Fall Apart is the most impactful album of the late 90's for me. Simply Perfect. Simply Iconic. Not one moment that didn't need to be on the album. I have a hard time listening to single songs off TFA. Soon as I play Next Movement, Ain't Sayin, or Act Too, I gotta play Step Into the Realm, Dynamite, and 100% Dundee. This is the album that gave us Beanie Seigel, Eve, and Jill Scott. The only failure connected to TFA is MCA failing to market and promote this album to 2x platinum status. Plenty of commercially viable singles. It won a fucking grammy. it debuted with i think 189,000 copies sold first week. Should have at least gone platinum within 6 months after debuting like that and being critically acclaimed like a motherfucker. Two retarded chimps could have done a better job than MCA.

In my opinion, TFA losing the Rap Album of the Year Grammy to Eminem's Slim Shady LP was the original Kendrick losing to Macklemore (who i think is dope, but GKMC better). I love the SSLP and it is a dope album, but c'mon son! It ain't no fucking where near TFA. Now, MMLP? That is Eminem's classic to me, and deserved the grammy.

it took me years to get them (thank you Amoeba). but think how many more copies TFA would have sold if all five covers were available everywhere. brilliant idea that got completely wasted. sure, not everybody would buy more than one cover, but many would, including myself.

.

It definitely hovers around the #1/2 spot for me in terms of favorite Roots albums.

Funny that although it often gets lumped in as one of the cornerstones of the neo-soul sound, it doesn't really sound like that all too much.

The last hurrah for Malik B. He definitely kills it throughout, as does Thought.

That secret track. Man. Shit is hard as fuck.

Definitely the last of its kind. I think for many, the Roots' catalog is split between pre-TFA and post-TFA. And not just because it was their breakthrough.

After revisiting this, it's actually BETTER than I remembered.

was something to behold at the time. I remember hearing all this talk about it, "is this programmed? Did this guy actually play this?" Definitely a jaw-dropper moment. I think this is just one example of how TFA was a blend of the previous two albums. They allowed their instruments to stand out and it was clearer that they were a band, yet things still thumped as they did on IH.

the good ol days...

I think this is the most complete Roots album...

Had a big crossover hit with "you got me" but "next movement" was a great single as well...

"act too" is a classic track... had a vintage dilla track on their with "dynamite" had some tracks with just fire spittin like "adrenaline" and "double trouble"

great album


@rob_starrk

With a mic and a cord, to hold your head with a sword


for some reason i always thought he said "ward"... rap genius says "war" makes more sense now that i think of it. lol


Step into the realm... damn i love that track. I've actually been driving around to TFA for a few weeks now.

plus it makes sense. he's saying that he's so out there mentally that he belongs in a ward. and it rhymes perfectly with every other word after too.

Unless they are deciphering alternative phrases for guns or drugs, or cliche's of the week, of course.

Or, if you want to be consistent, maybe to be implemented for the next artist's discog we try this for?

I feel like while there's some good insight/reflection being shared in these, there isn't much discussion. They seem to exist as a collection of separate essays by different posters, all touching on basically the same topics, but not much interaction.

Maybe if instead of requesting that we all cover the same topics in our responses, try one of two methods:

1) After the initial album post, do each song as a reply and have posters comment/share notes underneath.

or

2) Encourage posters to separate ideas/thoughts they have about the record as separate replies. For instance, if we were talking about Phrenology, I might respond with a post that is just based on ONE idea: "Things were definitely better without Malik B," and then people who agreed/disagreed/had their own take on it could respond to that reply.

Is this too convoluted? I just would like to see more interaction on these (though the replies have all been cool, and it's been a good experience to revisit these on a weekly basis).

it would go without separating tracks. That could definitely be done with the next album or next artist. And Roots albums get considerable shorter in length after this one. I'm not sure how to get the second one to happen but I'm not opposed to that either.

Thanks for the feedback.

if you want more interaction, reply more. i'll respond at least.

I made a mix for myself of beats that kind of encapsulated my favorite kind of hip hop production and had to include this among a ton of recognized classics like Come Clean and Nobody Beats the Biz.

While the story of the last two albums has been the improving of Black Though (and Malik to a lesser extent) the story of this album is really the much increased musicality. It really gives TFA a depth musically that we hadn't really seen before. A lot of that seems attributed to Storch, but the wiki says he was a part of the band from 93-95. But I know he's got writing credits on TFA so maybe that's not accurate.
The album is still too long, though. Again. But that's a sign of the time it was released. I remember going to Best Buy and Circuit City in the late 90s/early 00s and holding 2-3 cds in my hand and using how many songs as a one of my criteria for picking which one to buy. I could definitely do without The Spark on this one. The verse are actually pretty dope, but I don't like the hook at all. I think the strongest songs are "The Next Movement," "Ain't Sayin' Nothin New," "100% Dundee," "Adrenalin!", and "You Got Me." Those songs epitomize what the Roots were all about at this time to me. The Dundee through Don't See Us stretch is probably the strongest on the album. Which is the same way I felt when the album first came out. I definitely appreciate those other tracks way, way more than I did as a 14 year old.
The Ursula piece on this album is probably my "favorite" of all her Roots poems, but again, it could definitely be left off as I don't think it adds anything to the album other than showing that The Roots are "deep" or "conscious" or whatever.

4.25/5

Most potent tracks to me are:

03. The Next Movement (3:53)
06. Dynamite! (4:48)
07. Without a Doubt (4:15)
08. Ain't Sayin' Nothin' New (4:34)
09. Double Trouble (6:23)

Those are the ones that have stood out to me since originally hearing the album and it hasn't changed. Thats usually how i am with Roots records, I either love or skip all together.

All of those tracks above will forever be in rotation though...

Surprised at the disappointing turn-out for this one.

I got a chance to run this top to bottom twice...regardless, this one stays in rotation.

I remember when this album dropped. The video for You Got Me came out around Christmas...I want to say Christmas Eve or some shit.

We were highly anticipating this album after Illadelph Halflife.

My boy was working at the record store by this point. I remember seeing the 5 different album covers and thinking it was a dope idea. I copped the one with the cards on the cover and my boy copped the one with the baby and the one with the lady running in the riot.

Definitely a dope concept and I'm surprised I didn't cop all of them back then because CDs was all I spent my money on.

This was around the time we started driving so I recall banging this album in the ride all day along with Busta's ELE and Mobb's Murda Muzik. We also took a road trip to see The Roots up in Mass which was the best hip-hop show I've ever seen to this day. Black Moon, The Roots, Common, Mos Def, Kweli, Dice Raw, Jill Scott...and fucking Scratch blew my damn mind!

Unfortunately that show somewhat ruined my perspective on this record and The Roots records as a whole for a minute. I couldn't understand why they didn't capture the same musicianship from their live show on their albums. That shit pissed me off for real. I remember getting into with ?uest on here over the lack of a bridge on You Got Me. And while that sounds like an elementary argument, I still believe the basis of my opinion is valid. These cats were KILLING the live show. Flipping songs, playing crazy solos, replaying other people's songs. My point was, why is your love song which contains a dope story and Badu over a fucking 4 bar Scott Storch loop? I wanted them to take the foundation of Scott Storch's beat and create a composition from that with a "bridge" included lol. Again...my complaint was valid after seeing them in concert. I just wanted them to sound more like a band and bring even more respect to the musicianship they were capable of.

Obviously today, I know that complaint isn't that serious and regardless of whichever way I wanted them to push their music forward...it doesn't take away from the actual quality of the music as is. Which brings me to my review. Quick track by track and then my final thoughts including flaws in my opinion.

Intro - Their best intro. Only You May Die is better than this in my opinion. The audio selection is perfect. The way they bring in older tracks in the back with them panning is greatness. And then ending it with the same clip from Illadelph works. I feel like it subliminally says "the last one was good, but we're going to perfect it this time."

Table of Contents Pt 1 & 2 - Great opener. The beat is a bit minimalistic but it works for Thought and Malik to go in. I actually like the beat to part 1 better but a beat flip is always welcomed in my book. Thought picked up right where he left off on Illadelph. "It's safe to assume in all confidence / that I'm one of the illest in the 7 continents / you on my dick, thanks for the compliments / you'll be fucked up by my table of content / the Bad Lieutenant, yo I've been rhyming since...the fucking past tense..." that shit is ill right there. And it leads into Malik's section nicely.

The Next Movement - This is one of their classic joints. The ill 11 bar loop! LOL. Not sure how that came about but fuck it, it work beautifully. The background vocals really make this track. Couldn't ask for a better 3rd joint. Thought really goes in.

Step Into The Realm - Instantly a favorite. The beat is so ill. There's something to be said about a basic beat that allows the MC to go to work. The fade out really does intensify the verses too. "Limitless entrance, paid to the order of the cipher slaughterer, my mic slapping you senseless" ...come on man. The shit is real unfair. Thought is just on another level.

The Spark - Ill Malik solo. And there are many dope aspects about this joint here but all I'm going to say is...that fucking baseline is insane!

Dynamite! - Aight yo...I said it in like 2 other posts already but...how much better would this song and ultimately this album be if this joint featured Q-Tip? Now I'm not saying Elo came wack or that the song isn't a favorite. I'm just saying Elo ain't good enough to be trading verses with Thought *on this beat*. Come on yo. You get one of the illest Dilla joints of all-time and the executive decision is "yo, you know what this joint needs son...Elo!" Nah son. That shit ain't right. That is one mis-step on this album and even so...that song is still dope as fuck and Elo actually can rhyme LOL. My boy used to say this joint made him feel like walking a dog. That bass is just dope.

Without A Doubt - Now this is a proper tribute. Thought slays this joint right here. The hook works well also. But the best part of this song is the ending with the ?uest interlude. That could've been a full song right there.

Ain't Saying Nothing New - One of my favorites upon first listen. Dope Dice Raw feature. Beat flips are nice. The hook ad-libs are wonderful. Again, Thought just rides this beat like MCing is too easy.

Double Trouble - Aight...my all-time favorite Roots song right here. Thought and Mos? Sheeeit. Two of the nicest ever on this ill ass beat with the xylophones. These drums are some of ?uest's best work as well. The way the snare flips back and forth. The hook is a highlight. I love the format of the verses. I actually don't know who came nicer. But Mos steals the show with the ending. Pure Hip-Hop right here. One of my top 10 favorite joints of all-time period.

Act Too: Love Of My Life - Common comes with one of his best verses ever right here. The music is beautiful. Thought kills it. The strings are a nice touch. Everything just came together perfectly here.

100% Dundee - Yo...if you listen to this or Concerto of the Desperado and don't come away with the opinion that Thought is one of the nicest MCs of all-time then you simply have no clue on what an MC is. And that's all I got to say.

Diedra Vs Dice - I like this interlude and agree that it could've been a whole song. I don't like how the volume never gets up to the level of the other tracks even at its peak though.

Adrenaline - I remember I had this CD single with the instrumental. This was a dope beat to record to! If 100% Dundee is TFA's Concerto then this is TFA's Clones. 4 MCs...4 crazy verses..swap out punk ass Mars for a hungry ass Beans and you got another winner. I know Beans stole the show as the newcomer with the distinctive verse but I still think Thought has the best verse here.

3rd Act: ? Vs Scratch 2 - Whatever. Doesn't get the skip though. It does seem that with the two interludes at 12 and 14 are just filling space to stretch the album out though. The first half of the album was non-stop and then the second half has these interludes to break up the pace.

You Got Me - Don't really want to hear this joint in 2014 but I don't skip it. I still think it could've been better!

Don't See Us - Always a favorite. The beat with the guitar licks is ill. The format with the 3 MCs trading verse is nice too.

Get this lady OFF these albums!

I'm Out There - Should've been on the album. Absolute LOVE this joint but I never listen to it because of where it's hidden on the album.

Upon listening to this album a few times this past week, it confirmed two things for me; 1) I do like this album better than Illadelph and 2) Regardless of which I like better, this is not better than Game Theory.

So here are my issues with the album;

1) Outside of You Got Me, there is not one damn concept on this album at all other than "hip-hop". Maybe that is the concept but, almost every song is interchangeable outside of a few more laid-back beats. Features aside, Table of Contents, The Next Movement, Step Into The Realm, Dynamite!, Without A Doubt, Double Trouble, 100% Dundee, Adrenaline, and Don't See Us could have ALL started the album off. That's 9 out of 13 songs!

2) I know people like the cover and I even said above that the 5 covers was a good idea but...I feel at times The Roots stretch to attach a concept to their album. If you look at the cover with the lady running in the riot, it would appear that this album is a prequel to Dead Prez' Let's Get Free. Only problem is, the content isn't close to the same thing. I get that it's a metaphor for Hip-Hop but that concept tends to wear thin after a while.

3) Why is Elo on that Dilla classic!!!

at least imho

*on that beat*

I said Elo didn't come wack.

But he still doesn't get that guest spot if I'm executive producing the album.

That needs to either be a Q-Tip feature...Thought & Malik or Thought solo.

Obviously, there are other MCs that would've worked...but Q-Tip is made for that beat and I wouldn't be surprised if that beat was originally made for Q-Tip.

?uest...any insight?

And I'm not trying to get you to defend your decision or stick up for Elo or whatever...that's just my opinion as a 2014 Monday Morning QB but...

was this beat made for Tip? Did you guys entertain featuring someone other than Elo? Was he just in the studio?

i like him just as much as Black Thought. from a marketing standpoint, i understand putting someone like Q-Tip on the track, but quality wise, Elo dropped verses just as dope as I think Q-Tip would have.

>i like him just as much as Black Thought.

you thought it was Dice any way.

great, another poster who runs from a discussion....okay player.

You just said you like Elo as much as Thought.

What is there to discuss?

Q-Tip's style naturally fits the vibe of the track better.

...or so I am told...

I'm saddened I won't be able to attend as I have to be out of town for a memorial this weekend. The Picnic is at the Mann Music Center, which is beautiful.

I broke out the TFA CD, that was already in my car, under the arm rest (along side chronic, 36 chambers) .. I keep the classics in cd form in the whip.

I noticed on the back of the CD, the only track that had a listed "feature" is You Got Me (featuring Erykah Badu). Star studded features and yet only Badu was listed. Was this the label just pushing a know act at the time. Thought ?uest would have control over the track titles since the liner notes were his jawn.

Talk about an album that sounds fresh 20 years later. Makes me miss Malik B following thought on back 2 backs.... they both sound so smooth.

Is Malik gonna cameo this weekend at the Picnic? Hope they film this chumpy.

werd.

they had her on the single, in the video. she was the thing at the time so it wasnt just any feature.

the roots probably wanted to not list any features on the outside. the liner notes broke everything down as far as who was on the tracks right?

they were all relatively unknown at the time.

regardless, one of my fav albums and a huge reason that i got into non-radio hiphop.

aint sayin nothing new
double trouble
act too the love of my life

thats my favorite moment on a hiphop album. blew my mind hearing those three tracks back to back.

https://twitter.com/MeeshUniVerSoul


"She was on that tip about stoppin' the violence
About my people she was teachin' me..."

things fall apart was the first time i paid attention to them. i might have heard some of their stuff before but didnt know it.

the song is so beautiful. its kind of a culmination of their work up to things fall apart. they mastered that sound right there.

song gives me the feels every time.

then double trouble hits. just when i think aint sayin nothin new is what all hiphop needs to sound like you get this ode to old school hiphop that sounds fresh. thought and mos just going back forth. yes!!! i remember thinking why isnt there more stuff that sounds like this?????

this is hiphop!!

the transition into the love of my life is just too perfect. the love of my life is probably top 5 song of all time to me. when i first heard it i couldnt comprehend that people still made music with so much care and it sounded so new and it was hiphop? i did not know hiphop could sound this beautiful.

i need to find a way to get these three songs to play together all the time lol

>things fall apart was the first time i paid attention to
>them. i might have heard some of their stuff before but didnt
>know it.

Same. I kinda bought the album on a whim cause I was starting to get into artists of their ilk around that time.


>the song is so beautiful. its kind of a culmination of their
>work up to things fall apart. they mastered that sound right
>there.
>
>song gives me the feels every time.

Exactly - same here. Like I said in my last post, quintessential Roots. They'd built to that point and like you said, that song was kinda where they had just straight up perfected their sound and their aesthetic.


>then double trouble hits. just when i think aint sayin nothin
>new is what all hiphop needs to sound like you get this ode to
>old school hiphop that sounds fresh. thought and mos just
>going back forth. yes!!! i remember thinking why isnt there
>more stuff that sounds like this?????
>
>this is hiphop!!
>
>the transition into the love of my life is just too perfect.
>the love of my life is probably top 5 song of all time to me.
>when i first heard it i couldnt comprehend that people still
>made music with so much care and it sounded so new and it was
>hiphop? i did not know hiphop could sound this beautiful.

Man Act Too was in my top 5 for a looooooooong time. As a Common stan I was just blown away by this verse and the whole feel of the track.

I listened to it so much over the years I almost can't listen to it anymore lol but it's still got a special place in my heart for sure.

>the song is so beautiful. its kind of a culmination of their
>work up to things fall apart. they mastered that sound right
>there.
>
>song gives me the feels every time.
>
>then double trouble hits. just when i think aint sayin nothin
>new is what all hiphop needs to sound like you get this ode to
>old school hiphop that sounds fresh. thought and mos just
>going back forth. yes!!! i remember thinking why isnt there
>more stuff that sounds like this?????
>
>this is hiphop!!
>
>the transition into the love of my life is just too perfect.
>the love of my life is probably top 5 song of all time to me.
>when i first heard it i couldnt comprehend that people still
>made music with so much care and it sounded so new and it was
>hiphop? i did not know hiphop could sound this beautiful.
>
>i need to find a way to get these three songs to play together
>all the time lol

Same here. TFA is my favorite Roots album from start to finish. Had DYWM and the 4&1/2 mic Illadelph (Thought had Rhyme of the month and that album had appearances from Bohamadia and Common); but TFA......the artwork to the vibe to the rhymes were so cohesive. Reading the liner notes to see D'Angelo did some work on one of the tracks....J. Dilla.....I mean, shit that album was so perfect.

'99 to 2001 was dope for the Soulquarian collective.

>'99 to 2001 was dope for the Soulquarian collective.

I owe a lot to those artists and that time period.

But was leaving work and obviously forgot to respond lol. But yea I'm with you. Perfect song. Quintessential Roots.

And it still holds up to me. None of the songs sounds 'dated' or don't land. Still love The Spark, Ain't Say Nuttin New, Double Trouble and Don't See Us.

I've heard that the production is the star on TFA and that may be true. But Thought was a marvel on that album (as he usually is.) All of the features worked well and the hooks are top notch as well.

I know fans, myself included, are quick to label an album a classic immediately after release. Things Fall Apart fits that title.

I wonder what would have happened to the Soulquarians if that Rolling Stone (?) feature never came out about ?uest which the other members didn't take to. Would we have gotten a couple of more albums like TFA from the band and Kweli, Mos, and Common? Not that the band's quality fell off after Phrenology but the musical themes did. Artists change over time and it's likely that even if the colletive stayed together the sound would have shifted into something different. But I still wonder.

To me they got quite a few terrible songs but the majority of them are on the Def Jam albums but during their Geffen/Universal years "You Got Me" is the only song I hated when I first heard it and it still is, I refuse to even listen to it when it comes on the radio or a mix.

Now there was a dope remix of "You Got Me" titled "The Me Tienes Remix" that featured Mercedes Martinez from the Jazzyfatnastees was good, that should've been the regular version but I guess when The Roots did that remix song for Tracie Spencer "It's All About You (Not Me)" I think Geffen wanted the same vibe to make The Roots have a radio/crossover hit...and it worked but it turned me off.

But I'm used to some of my favorite artists selling out cause they need a hit cause the label isn't in the business of signing acts cause they like music; sometimes a radio/crossover hit turns out to be sort of a favorite with some artists' catalog while other times it's that eyesore listeners usually try to forget about.

.

I'm not sure if 15 told this story or if it's in the liner notes for the Homegrown compliations or TFA. But apparently at the TFA time the band was in jeopardy of breaking up or maybe being dropped. TFA was their make it or break it album. So, in order to prove to the label that they could actually make money from the band, they had to have a crossover hit.

Originally, I think Jill Scott was supposed to be the singer on You Got Me. I don't know if the label didn't like her version or if Erykah got on the album because she was more well-known. (I don't think Jill's first album had come out in '98)

So, 15 and the group did their thing to make a radio song that didn't completely communicate to their fans that they sold out. (the reason for the drum and break solo at the end.)

While the song was a hit, apparently someone at the label paid some radio company 500K in payola to get the song on their air. Crazy, right.

So, you're right that the song doesn't sound like anything else really in their catalog before TFA but they had to keep the lights on and for a song that's a clear appeal to pop fans it's still faithful to the band's commitment to craft and artistry.

Personally, I don't listen to the song much when it comes on. I'm just not into hip-hop/R&B songs now, although You Got Me is one of the top songs in that group. It was never a favorite of mine but I appreciated that alot of people became fans of The Roots because of that song and probably checked out some great music on TFA because of that. And the group got some Grammy love, which was dope to see.

Not one skippable track. Everything, from music to lyrics to liner notes to cover, to album titles and song titles is iconic.

It's not their best to me (that would probably be undun), but it's probably the project that best reflects the essence of the group. Arty and progressive but grounded in tradtional boom-bap. Great lyricism throughout. A sense of humor but also a note of seriousness. And great attention to detail from mastering to the album covers.

I think TFA would be second, followed by Game Theory. Undun would be middle of the pack for me, but that doesn't mean bad. I'd rate Undun 7.5/10, maybe 8/10 on a good day.

They weren't refined but the potential was there and they seemed to have a lot of fun making the record. Dope stuff.

Malik and Black T were a Force!

When they said they were doing the album they did the ALBUM. Ursula Rucker did a spoken word intro, Mos did Double Trouble, Com did Part II Love of My Life. It was a v dope concept and I lowkey HATE that I missed Adrenaline + You Got Me b/c my friend was tired but video will be posted somewhere I’m sure.

I don’t have anything else to contribute lol but it’s really crazy we’re in the “this album is X years old era” + “this might be the last time we see this shit live”

I'm really curious why The Roots have NEVER done a live show with her. I went to a Superbowl show in San Diego once, and Eve performed JUST BEFORE The Roots, and they didn't have her perform with them during You Got Me. The show was amazing, but I was disappointed by that.

Peep the footage here: https://youtu.be/S38ZU45M9tc

On OKP's official YouTube channel, no less. Per the info this was at some NYC event sponsored by Hennessy.

But I agree, it'd be cool if they could link up more often for live performances of the song.

.

Only songs they didn’t do was 100% Dundee and the Bonus Track...Thought said they were skipping it due to time...

I got the flow of the Com/Mos stuff b/c they had just done their tracks from the album but we didn’t need version 1372 of “we’re the Roots we can play anything” lmao can’t please everybody, and that new Com/Bilal song did sound dope but hearing Adrenaline start as I was walking out the gates I was like FUCK

Half the album is him.

Shame they still can't collaborate.


werd.

https://youtu.be/7nl2fkX0Wgg

>https://youtu.be/7nl2fkX0Wgg

I'll check it out when I get home.

Cool to hear some of these songs that I’d never heard live, or songs that are much more easily replicated with the current configuration (versus, say, when the band literally had just 2-4 instruments).

Other takeaways:

- 100% Dundee might just be my favorite Thought performance of all-time, so I was a little disappointed to not see that but oh well haha.

- I’ve known this, and I know this more and more every time I see this band, but Black Thought is a fucking beast. Unparalleled.

- you know what further drives home how dope Thought is? Seeing other rappers take the stage and absolutely pale in comparison (not naming names but I think it’s pretty obvious)

- another point that is not new or groundbreaking but it’s so crazy when other artists take the stage and you see that dudes who were once way more “successful” and killing it in the reindeer games are now doing cute little nostalgia numbers as guests at a ROOTS FESTIVAL. I swear, man, the Roots won, yo. It’s unreal and so dope.

- also interesting that the songs were mostly performed in their “true to form album” arrangements versus how they have transformed over the years (particularly with “Next Movement” and “You Got Me”)

- 15 had said this was the last year they headline the festival and I think I understand. This is kind of a tough thing to top and if they want to continue to occupy the festival space it’s going to get harder for them to justify the headlining spot (unless they’re backing a huge act). Atmosphere has essentially done this with Soundset, their festival they used to headline over the biggest acts of the day who were also booked on the bill. Now they just headline on a smaller (but still obviously big) stage while the current marquee superstars play the main stage (ironically I think last year the Roots played their main stage while Atmosphere played the indie stage)

Anyway, this seems like it was dope, thanks again for recording!

>Cool to hear some of these songs that I’d never heard live,
>or songs that are much more easily replicated with the current
>configuration (versus, say, when the band literally had just
>2-4 instruments).

This is my 9th Roots Picnic...and I was really looking forward to seeing how they would pull off the performance.

>Other takeaways:
>
>- 100% Dundee might just be my favorite Thought performance of
>all-time, so I was a little disappointed to not see that but
>oh well haha.

I feel that way with Ain't Saying Nothing New...I would have been bummed if they skipped that...

>
>- I’ve known this, and I know this more and more every time
>I see this band, but Black Thought is a fucking beast.
>Unparalleled.

and to think...he did almost an hour with Mos Def a few hours prior...I posted that one earlier this morning...

>- you know what further drives home how dope Thought is?
>Seeing other rappers take the stage and absolutely pale in
>comparison (not naming names but I think it’s pretty
>obvious)

Yup...
>
>- another point that is not new or groundbreaking but it’s
>so crazy when other artists take the stage and you see that
>dudes who were once way more “successful” and killing it
>in the reindeer games are now doing cute little nostalgia
>numbers as guests at a ROOTS FESTIVAL. I swear, man, the Roots
>won, yo. It’s unreal and so dope.

They played the Game...and won easily...

>- also interesting that the songs were mostly performed in
>their “true to form album” arrangements versus how they
>have transformed over the years (particularly with “Next
>Movement” and “You Got Me”)

I was legit happy that this happened...when The Next Movement came on early and it was more true to form...i started imagining how they would handle the rest...


>- 15 had said this was the last year they headline the
>festival and I think I understand. This is kind of a tough
>thing to top and if they want to continue to occupy the
>festival space it’s going to get harder for them to justify
>the headlining spot (unless they’re backing a huge act).
>Atmosphere has essentially done this with Soundset, their
>festival they used to headline over the biggest acts of the
>day who were also booked on the bill. Now they just headline
>on a smaller (but still obviously big) stage while the current
>marquee superstars play the main stage (ironically I think
>last year the Roots played their main stage while Atmosphere
>played the indie stage)

If it stays at The Mann Center...I almost prefer it. The Mann Center Stage had seating...the Fairmount Park Stage doesn't...
>
>Anyway, this seems like it was dope, thanks again for
>recording!

You're welcome...
>
>

Do they typically perform that one? Not only because of his verses, but they trade lines in the hook too. Thought kills it, but the song isn’t the same without Malik.

rewind selector... really??? Damn. Why?


https://twitter.com/MeeshUniVerSoul


"She was on that tip about stoppin' the violence
About my people she was teachin' me..."

But I kinda laid out what seems like a reasonable argument in the post that you are quoting.

They couldn't even come together for the anniversary?

Don’t think they ever pushed him out a door that he didn’t lock himself out of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbhuq50u8BE
werd.

Shame that Malik B couldn’t get over the Water...

yall really DONT listen to the lyrics.

or yall dont know how drugs work.

hard to be at a "fool" time job and be on the net. but this was an interesting thread.

my all time goal with JUST ABOUT any album we do is "will this sound cool decades from now, it can sound dated compared to the marketplace but "How Embarrassed Will I Be When You Play It?"

I mean perhaps Organic and DYWM are close to the heart but yeah a lot of "this is SO 1993 trendy diggy diggy migedy raps here"

but for the most part I am generally satisfied with our output. as in "I don't cringe when I hear this"


any who....

ask away

how much did they try to influence the whole record or any particular song and how much of an impact did it have on the final result?


its been a minute since i read the liner notes so im trying to avoid asking anything answered in there lol

1) In the liner notes for the song "Double Trouble," you refer to finally achieving a "sonic dirt sound" on the drums after many attempts/trial/error/etc. and you allude to finally figuring out what the missing ingredient was but you were very trademark-crypto?uest about it.

Welp, 20 years have passed and it's likely that none of the methods you even used to record back then are even what you probably utilize now. So what was it???

2) This is maybe a little "inside baseball" and not related exclusively to the album itself but...revisited TFA when this post came back up...watched footage of the Picnic performance (looked/sounded *awesome*). Certain replies in this thread blatantly state the obvious, which is that many of the key players in the group at the time are not in the Roots any more. And this is nothing new (I remember like maybe Phren/post-Phren era reacting to a member leaving the band on some "whoa! the group is never gonna be the same" and...obviously the show goes on). Basically to the public and even those more in the know, the Roots are gonna be the Roots as long as you and Thought are there (though I *did* actually attend one of the rare Roots shows that you were absent for lol).

So my question is: as the founding members, was this kind of always the design/strategy from the jump? That there would always be a "core" of the group and that everything else would be rotational and/or replaceable? Or did that just become the modus operandi over time as people fell by the wayside/etc.? We all know that the whole idea of the "merry band of brothers" is often fiction when it comes to the artists we know and love, but I guess there are "hired gun" bands and "sum is greater than the parts" bands and I am just wondering what/how the concept may have changed or evolved over time...

(and this in no way diminishes the value of anyone in the band before or currently. No one has ever been short of amazing! But the fact is it's 2019 and I still thoroughly enjoy a band minus Malik B, Rahzel, Hub, Ben Kenney, etc...and I never could have predicted that at the time that TFA came out).

The Masters of Things Fall Apart was in that fire?

What does that mean from an artist perspective? Could you potentially own the rights to the live versions of the albums if you re-did them live and release them commercially?

During the recording sessions, since Malik was fighting demons so to speak, how did it impact the process of making this album?

Like many lessonheads I've read your gems over the years and your approach to sequencing always fascinated me.

Given that albums today aren't always consumed linearly or even in full, do you look at sequencing an album differently today then you might have in 98/99? Do you look for less interludes? Shorter song times?

1) ain't saying nothing new" is made up of two sections, a groove based loop, and a harder, bass heavy loop. Were those two developed in the same production session, or were those two different beats that got consolidated or what?

2) so if I remember correctly, Thought didn't like "quicksand millenium" even though it would have fit perfect as the hidden song, more so than "don't see us". What reason did he give, and did you agree with him?

3) Michael stipe wrote his songs to the band's finished music, while DJ premiere made the beats to Gurus raps and concepts. What technique of creation did you and the other producers use with the rappers on this album?

This album still shining man, thanks.

Reminds me of the days of the past when you weren't working 26 hours a day and had downtime to kick it with us.

Things Fall Apart first stood out to me because of the iconic cover art, the photos and also the faux jazz type layout.

The previous album covers were more in line with straightahead hip-hop albums whereas TFA, and the following records, have a more visceral, emotive impact. Something like a magazine cover to The Atlantic or Time Magazine.

The choice to have more artistically sophisticated album art was obviously intentional, but was the drive simply to communicate that your albums are Art and so ought to use any and all opportunities to reflect the themes of the music? If the reason was something else, please feel free to touch on that if you find time.

.

...and has he ever noticed how hilarious his Discosg page is because of it?

15's Brother Question, not Brother Answer.

.

By 1998 I was defiantly a huge fan of The Roots.

I had seen them live probably 10-15 times by that point, and I had been running a fan site called Good Music, and I was in touch with Chris Oberlin who ran the Geocities site.

In 1988 The Roots released an astonishing number of songs:
•Why? (From the Ride soundtrack)
•Summertime (with Bobby Womack)
•Don’t See Us 12” (and the Peas and Cues titled version)
•You got Me (featuring Erica) – original and remix 12”
•Adrenaline 12”
•Take it There Remix (Nonchalant + The Roots + Dice Raw)
•Tabou (Remix) – Les Nubians
•Let It Go (From the Down in The Delta soundtrack)
•Common – All Night Long
•Three-Ring Government –Jazzyfatnastees

I had bought every one of those that I could find and my friends were pretty sick of it.

I first heard “Things Fall Apart” because some kind soul sent me an advance cassette in December of 1998 or January 1999 – at least two or three weeks before the record came out . I checked my email archives, I cannot find any record of who sent it to me but I think it was someone who worked at a record store.

That cassette was pretty much the album – but did not have the hidden track (I still call it Still Out Deah –not Act Fore) – but it did include the Jill Scott version of You Got Me.

When Act Won came on I was “clips from old albums with a backward melodica (or something) with Mo Better Blues samples” okay – that fits.

But when Table of Contents 1 came on in was of in shock – what the F*CK was thins? It was so dirty – the bass was odd – the keyboards so simple – the sloppy cymbals , and I knew they changed their sound as much between Illadelph and this as they did between DYWM and this.

Then part 2 starts and it’s clean as shit – I was in shock again.
Then The Next Movement starts – and there’s “real’ scratching on it – but it also sounds jazzy like DYWM.

The Step Into The Relm starts and it’s back to more of an Ilaldelph sound – but the music is fading in and out – and I’m thinking “They are not only changing it up from album to album – but now from song to song – and they are really hitting the dynamics hard.” Some of this album is LOUD as fuck – and some is not. Most hip-hop from this time was just loud.

Dynamite was the track that blew my mind – the first real prominent guitar I can recall on a track by The Roots. And it was sampled!! (I may have seen an early version of this in concert in 1998 with Kamal playing the guitar - but it wasn't the entire sound.)

Double Trouble was my favorite song from the album for at least a year – and the beat switch up was so unexpected and perfect – plus the bass is so good on the track – and Bob James sounding bridges, the rhyme styles from Stoop Rap to RUN DMC to Furious 5 to Afrika Bambaataa – just a great track.

When 100% Dundee came on I thought the cassette had an issue because it was SO MUCH LOUDER than anything else on the record.

Urusla Rucker’s poem was another shock.

I think I was shocked more than anything else.

When it was finally released I went to The Wherehouse and got the “normal cover” but I was interested in seeing if the other covers contained different music-- alas they did not. (The promo versions of the album contain different bonus tracks and slight differences musically – but I think there’s still stuff we have not heard that was prepared for the other covers.)

I ended up at The House Of Blue in Los Angeles I think in early March of 1999 and the place was PACKED and they had large posters of all the album covers (3 of which I’ve seen since that day) and “Things Come Together” CDs all over the place. The energy was insane – they had been on Letterman the month before and You got me was still a huge hit.

Their live show was definitely on point – it was also very dynamic. That's the first time I saw the Relm performed live - and soem people were confused as to what the fuck was happening.

I kind of have some of the tracks on The Legendary mixed in my memory too. I think Table of Contents (Part 3) could/should have been on the record. And The Ultimate (a version of “The Agenda” on an obscure Japanese artist 3” CD single) is a treat too.

I think “The Pros” might have been right around this time too – a track not release except on the iTunes version of HomeGrown.

I listened to it several times in the past 2 months and I think my first impressions still stand – it’s a dirty, clean, loud, soft, new, old mixture of hip-hop. But it’s definitely a big part of my life, and I think my initial post still stands: I liked it.

I listened to it tonight. It's a great album and I think everything still holds up after this long. I bought this album back when it first came out after hearing "You Got Me" on public radio. I think I had the artwork with a burnt church but I can't find it anymore. Every track is dope still.


I can't listen to it 2-4 more times though. That album is like 80 plus minutes with all the hidden tracks. I smoked a joint, cut my hair, took a shower, finished cutting my hair, smoked another joint, and I still had like 20 minutes of album left. Love the hidden track off of the clean version so it makes it even longer.


http://keymusic.bandcamp.com/album/apophenia

https://keymusic.bandcamp.com/

cant imagine anyone doing that today. most artists struggle to put out 7 good songs out now.

the record is long but it doesnt feel like it, youre never really wishing it would just end already.

But I don't think many could fill up a whole CD and have every track be great back then. The Roots were one of the few. If an artist can do 30-40 minutes of solid music I am happy. The CD format was a little too long and maybe labels arbitrarily demanded artists to fill the whole CD. Not really sure. Or did artists just want to fill them up?

To me though a perfect movie would be about an hour and then end. You never see it though.

http://keymusic.bandcamp.com/album/apophenia

https://keymusic.bandcamp.com/

https://www.albumism.com/features/the-roots-things-fall-apart-turns-20-anniversary-retrospective

I had no idea about this sample: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9_G-rIMi3s#t=33m32s

...still lookin at some of these albums like there're new(ish) ...great read tho!

behind the scenes for this album and the other first few ones for the few people who had not heard it already.

Questlove is giving all the historians everything they need to chronicle their careers.

**********
"Everyone has a plan until you punch them in the face. Then they don't have a plan anymore." (c) Mike Tyson

"what's a leader if he isn't reluctant"

Every bonus track is great; they all hold their own against the stuff on the album proper. Prefer the drum and bass version of You Got Me, actually.