The impetus of this song has Cole assuming he's already one of the greats. In the song, he is making those comparisons himself, which diminishes their value (even if others have held him in that esteem).

The personal insight that we get to hear seems like a one-on-one conversation that should've been had, turned into Cole airing out a time when he was mad at what Nas said to him in confidence.

No I.D. put some work in on that beat. And from the song title, I figured the song would have a semi-compelling concept. But this shit is a let-down. Big time.

If Nas wasn't let down before, he sure as shit is now.

Didn't see y'all complaining about that

Interesting set of standards from The Lesson

The only difference between the two is that Kanye was on his third album, and had a heap of production under his belt, too. Cole is only on his second album, and he hasn't had that level of success yet.

To me at least, the comparisons in "Big Brother" made more sense. I was more willing to buy into Kanye's story I guess.

Ye and Jay actually have history. They were like 7 years strong on friendship so the song made sense. It was corny but it made sense. What history does Cole have with Nas?

... it's really more like Stan minus the why didn't you call me back and I'm gonna kill my baby momma stuff.

And when J Cole explained the song, Nas never even said anything to J Cole. J got Nas' opinion through NoID.

Like, the nigga could just give him a call and discuss
the shit as man and KIM

Sharing detail of a personal friendship is essentially
the bitchmadest shit you can possibly do

On the other hand,Cole is a Nas fan

The song is written by a kid who grew up on Nas, admires
him

That shit makes more sense to me

so many personal things have been shared in dope rap songs

I liked "Let Nas Down" though

>
>Didn't see y'all complaining about that
>
>Interesting set of standards from The Lesson



when did prince fall off?
what's MJ's best album?
does kanye west suck?

there isn't a "set of standards" here.
like, ever.



we had a huge fight about what songs, if any, should be dropped from Stevie's "songs in the key of life."


the only thing we have in common is that we all like old ass music.
(but not the same TYPE of old music)


standards?


lol

Its true

Trust me, I'm studied this

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

can you tell me what verdict the lesson arrived at on
following important issues?





"did anybody care about 'reasonable doubt' when it dropped,
or are the accolades it gets retroactive?"

"did miles davis' electric period suck or not?"

"is george clinton a top tier songwriter, or does he 'just make dance music'?"

"is "off the wall" better than "thriller?"

"is "purple rain" better than "1999?"

"did stevie wonder make 'soul' music?"




i have had too many arguments with too many different people
with too many opinions coming from every side of the issue
to feel that we can reach anything even resembling a consensus on anything.

Period, end of discussion, no further debate required. That's some silly bullshit that is invoked so that self-styled iconoclasts can act like they're better than everyone else, and that the rest of us are hypocrites (unless we happen to agree with them - and then we're "not part of that Lesson groupthink mentality").

The funny part is that we'll have these platinum-ass threads where somebody ALWAYS says, "There you go, Lesson, groupthinkin' motherfuckers, ha ha ha." Then you scroll up and notice that at least half the replies, if not more, represent some entirely different opinion than the one being complained about. Just read the Yeezus thread and then look near the end for the guy complaining that everybody's sucking Kanye off. Uhhhh... are we reading the same posts..? Sure seems like we're not.

Hell, I don't think we even all like old music. Most of us do, but there are still people around here that seem to only talk about whatever's new and hot, and never chime in on these dusty Prince-vs.-MJ or Jay-vs.-Nas convos.

>Hell, I don't think we even all like old music. Most of us
>do, but there are still people around here that seem to only
>talk about whatever's new and hot, and never chime in on these
>dusty Prince-vs.-MJ or Jay-vs.-Nas convos.

~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

and that's just in the 6 years i've been on OKP.

Its true.

I don't have to convince you, though.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

"did stevie wonder suck in the 80s?"

"is r. kelly a genius?"

"is rock 'black music?'"

"is hip hop dead?"

"can musiq soulchild sing?"

"is d'angelo as talented as quest thinks he is?"

"can atheists make soul music?"




i mean...

huh?




>Its true.
>
>I don't have to convince you, though.
>
>----------------------------
>
>
>
>O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"
>
>
>
>
>"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."
>
>(C)Keith Murray, "

after being proven factually wrong

lmao

Why?

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>Period, end of discussion, no further debate required.
>That's some silly bullshit that is invoked so that self-styled
>iconoclasts can act like they're better than everyone else,
>and that the rest of us are hypocrites (unless we happen to
>agree with them - and then we're "not part of that Lesson
>groupthink mentality").
>
>The funny part is that we'll have these platinum-ass threads
>where somebody ALWAYS says, "There you go, Lesson,
>groupthinkin' motherfuckers, ha ha ha." Then you scroll up
>and notice that at least half the replies, if not more,
>represent some entirely different opinion than the one being
>complained about. Just read the Yeezus thread and then look
>near the end for the guy complaining that everybody's sucking
>Kanye off. Uhhhh... are we reading the same posts..? Sure
>seems like we're not.
>
>Hell, I don't think we even all like old music. Most of us
>do, but there are still people around here that seem to only
>talk about whatever's new and hot, and never chime in on these
>dusty Prince-vs.-MJ or Jay-vs.-Nas convos.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

its just opinions...

get off the soap box .........



not that serious I love hearing the different opinions kinda like being at a virtual barbershop...

that's my point.

and i agree with this...


>
>not that serious I love hearing the different opinions kinda
>like being at a virtual barbershop...

...that whatever positive input O_E could contribute to this place is far overshadowed by how it's predicated on his insistance that he's not a part of this place and somehow above it for opinions he can't articulate outside of how he perceives we will respond. One of these days we'll all come to the consensus that until he lets all that shit go, it's really not even worth engaging him, except it's so fun and easy to get him mad. You can tell he's mad by the way he projects it.



█▆▇▅▇█▇▆▄▁▃
Big PEMFin H & z's
"I ain't no entertainer, and ain't trying to be one. I am 1 thing, a musician." © Miles

"When the music stops he falls back in the abyss."

stop the madness.

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

If you disagree what you consider the general "Lesson" viewpoint on things so much, why do you continue to discuss music in The Lesson? Why not find some place that you feel is more receptive to your ideas?

Song dope and dude is just showing love to his favorite MC...it was all in fun and respect. You guys think way too deep into shit on here sometimes man...lol. I would rather hear that than every other MC screaming murder and drugs on every track. Cole song is cool. Kanye Big Brother tracked seemed honest...

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

But instead he's the next Game.

Mind you this is only the second song by him I've listened to, so whatever.

Or do you mean that I formed my opinion of him (sounding like Game) based on what somebody else said somewhere else?

I don't know if other people have thought of the Game comparison. I don't find it hard to believe that they have, since it seems so clear to me based on this song. Maybe he doesn't sound like Game on his other songs, but on this one he certainly does to me.

So are you saying that the Game comparison on this song does not resonate with you? Or are you annoyed that I came up with it, even though it's apt, because I was up font about it being formed without giving his catalog a fair listen?

Any of the above is fine with me, I'm just confused by the question.

Carry on.

My apologies if Im not correct on that. Still, kind've wild to judge a rapper off two tracks, though I understand first impressions being formed.

I need to go listen to more. To be honest I actually enjoy Game so it wasn't even a bad thing, I just thought it was funny because there was a time when Game was billing himself the West Coast Nas, so it made me laugh to hear somebody billing themselves as the next generation Nas but sounding more like the West Coast Nas.

Everybody I know personally whose opinion I respect rides for Cole, so I'm overdue on taking a closer look.

>The impetus of this song has Cole assuming he's already one
>of the greats. In the song, he is making those comparisons
>himself, which diminishes their value (even if others have
>held him in that esteem).




^^ ^ That's exactly what Jay-Z and Lil Wayne did. Bragged about how great
they were until others bought in. Jay started going hard with it after Pac died.
Wayne started sometime around '05 or so when he was releasing 35 mixtapes
a week talking about he the best since Pac died and the best lied or some
shit.
I can't remember the exact lyric... but they both exalted themselves as
greats before everyone bought in. Please don't act like yall don't remember
that.



>The personal insight that we get to hear seems like a
>one-on-one conversation that should've been had, turned into
>Cole airing out a time when he was mad at what Nas said to him
>in confidence.




Nas didn't say it to him. No I.D. told him what Nas said about "Workout"
when he heard it.



>If Nas wasn't let down before, he sure as shit is now.



I don't see how. If anything, he sees that his opinion holds weight to at least
one up and comer in the game... and probably many others. That's about it
though.

it's vulnerable with no attempt to be hard, a rare thing for rap

yep! I'm with you on that

Fave track is Rich Niggaz. Great beat on that too.

>Fave track is Rich Niggaz. Great beat on that too.

on the album. His thoughtful nature connects and it sounds completely
genuine and effortless. He really excels at that kind of song, imo.

as him documenting his own struggle with making compromises with his art in the music industry.

'Let Nas Down' is just kind of a phrase/symbol for expressing that internal/external pressure.

Song's not bad actually & I don't really check for J. Cole all that much.

Both songs are just halfway clever-ish songs about some
lightweight topics, halfway metaphors for shit

You got mad at Lupe for his

You understanding Cole for his

I'm peeping you out


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I can't really argue with you over some imagined agenda or fixation you think I have with Lupe Fiasco tho so rather than travel down that nonsensical road I'd rather just tell you have a nice weekend.

>I can't really argue with you over some imagined agenda or
>fixation you think I have with Lupe Fiasco tho so rather than
>travel down that nonsensical road I'd rather just tell you
>have a nice weekend.

I'm developing a anti-double standard chip, inbox your
address, I'll send you one, fits in a regular envelope

Just drop it in some cool water, drink it down with your
birth control

I got google money behind it and everything



----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

I'm reaching, but I'm touching the net so fuck you.

>I'm reaching, but I'm touching the net so fuck you.

http://www.audiomack.com/song/nas/let-nas-down-remix-feat-nas

This beat was made for "Life Is Good" Nas.


PHOCK.


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz

LOL @ The Lesson

----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

Nas sounds great on that beat

Well played, Nasir!

Thank you Based Nas.

Cole still boring though.

Hopefully this eliminates the idea that J. Cole should have just called Nas instead of making a song. Artists can tell stories and address life situations in their music, and Cole spoke to Nas respectfully enough for Nas to make a response record that provided one of the year’s most memorable moments in rap.

>Hopefully this eliminates the idea that J. Cole should have
>just called Nas instead of making a song. Artists can tell
>stories and address life situations in their music, and Cole
>spoke to Nas respectfully enough for Nas to make a response
>record that provided one of the year’s most memorable moments
>in rap.


Again^^^^^^^

I love the generation-solidarity moment and its made
me gravitate to J.Cole personally (if not musically)

But yikes-

Hearing the songs back to back is pretty embarrassing:

Nas is so much better than J.Cole that it almost
made me wince hearing it. And Nas' verse is probably a
throwaway that he spent 5 minutes preparing

Cole, on the other hand, put mad love and time into his
song

And Cole is supposed to be one of the more "lyrical" of
the young generation, and he has 1/500th Nas' talent.

NOT HATING, I like Cole...but its weird

People who complain that old rappers won't go away:

This is the reason. They are better, more relevant rappers,
in their 40s, than young rappers are, in their primes


----------------------------



O_E: "Acts like an asshole and posts with imperial disdain"




"I ORBITs the solar system, listenin..."

(C)Keith Murray, "

>I love the generation-solidarity moment and its made
>me gravitate to J.Cole personally (if not musically)
>
>But yikes-
>
>Hearing the songs back to back is pretty embarrassing:
>
>Nas is so much better than J.Cole that it almost
>made me wince hearing it. And Nas' verse is probably a
>throwaway that he spent 5 minutes preparing

That's what happens when you put Nas, who many consider one of the top three rappers of all time, on a record with a cat who just released his second album. Not saying that young Nas wouldn't have bodied him too lol, but this isn't a situation where I was looking to compare who is better and who is worse because I don't think the situation calls for that.


>Cole, on the other hand, put mad love and time into his
>song
>And Cole is supposed to be one of the more "lyrical" of
>the young generation, and he has 1/500th Nas' talent.

While Nas' verse was better, I don't think that J. Cole looks bad here. I thought the original "Let Nas Down" was a superb display of storytelling from a technical standpoint, and vulnerability in the case of intangibles. But still, a lot of his fans aren't going to tell you these are Cole's best rhymes. Plus, we don't know if Cole would've written his verses differently had he known Nas was actually going to hop on the song.

That said, I don't think it backfired. I thought Cole expressed himself clearly and made a song great enough to move Nas to respond. Nas was better, but that's par for the course when you have a top 3/GOAT candidate taking over your beat without you knowing lol


>NOT HATING, I like Cole...but its weird
>
>People who complain that old rappers won't go away:
>
>This is the reason. They are better, more relevant rappers,
>in their 40s, than young rappers are, in their primes

You didn't come across as hating at all. I don't think Cole is in his prime - at least I don't want to think he is. But I agree, RE: the complaints that the older rappers won't go away. When those greats are still making great music, they have no reason to. I'm not sure what primes we've seen with these younger cats though, I'm still thinking many of them will continue to grow.

see how anyone could dispute this...

>Artists can tell stories and address life situations in their music

No I.D. was on the credits prior to release though...


~~~~~~~~~
"This is the streets, and I am the trap." © Jay Bilas
http://www.popmatters.com/pm/archive/contributor/517
Hip Hop Handbook: http://tinyurl.com/ll4kzz